Already and this is the Dailia.

Already and this is the Dailia.

This is the Dailias.

This is the Dailias.

Oh now it makes sense.

Oh now it makes sense.

Good morning, and welcome to the Daily Os. It's Friday, the fourteenth of March. I'm zara, i'm emma. Earlier this week, the former president of the Philippines, Rodrigo de Turte, was arrested at an airport after arriving back into the Philippines. This comes after the International Criminal Court issued a warrant for his arrest. Duturte initiated a sweeping crackdown on drug use and trafficking in the Southeast Asian country while in power, and now ICC prosecutors alleged the crime against humanity of murder has been committed, as well as things like torture, sexual violence, and enforced disappearance.

Good morning, and welcome to the Daily Os. It's Friday, the fourteenth of March. I'm zara, i'm emma. Earlier this week, the former president of the Philippines, Rodrigo de Turte, was arrested at an airport after arriving back into the Philippines. This comes after the International Criminal Court issued a warrant for his arrest. Duturte initiated a sweeping crackdown on drug use and trafficking in the Southeast Asian country while in power, and now ICC prosecutors alleged the crime against humanity of murder has been committed, as well as things like torture, sexual violence, and enforced disappearance.

Okay, so Zara, this story really took me via surprise this week. I'm sure some of our listeners may have heard Dueterte's name before, but many others like me might not know anything about him and anything about this story and the allegations against him. So I think it'd be really helpful to just take it back to basics, back to the start. Can you tell me a little bit about who Rodrigo Duterte is.

Okay, so Zara, this story really took me via surprise this week. I'm sure some of our listeners may have heard Dueterte's name before, but many others like me might not know anything about him and anything about this story and the allegations against him. So I think it'd be really helpful to just take it back to basics, back to the start. Can you tell me a little bit about who Rodrigo Duterte is.

Yeah, so I'll start just with when he came into I guess the popular conscience. So he first rose to prominence as the mayor of the city of Devo. Now that's in the Philippines, and he served as the mayor of that city for twenty two years, wow, really long time. And the city itself was when he entered power, very well known for how high the rates of crime were. So he kind of came into power at a time where there were the out of control crime rates in the city that he was now presiding over. And during the time the twenty two years that I said that he served, Duterte developed a really well known reputation for how he dealt with this rising crime. Now he was often referred to as the Punisher, which I think says everything. Yeah, he was extremely heavy handed and from the second that he assumed power, said that he was going to crack down on the crime rates and specifically declared war on drugs.

Yeah, so I'll start just with when he came into I guess the popular conscience. So he first rose to prominence as the mayor of the city of Devo. Now that's in the Philippines, and he served as the mayor of that city for twenty two years, wow, really long time. And the city itself was when he entered power, very well known for how high the rates of crime were. So he kind of came into power at a time where there were the out of control crime rates in the city that he was now presiding over. And during the time the twenty two years that I said that he served, Duterte developed a really well known reputation for how he dealt with this rising crime. Now he was often referred to as the Punisher, which I think says everything. Yeah, he was extremely heavy handed and from the second that he assumed power, said that he was going to crack down on the crime rates and specifically declared war on drugs.

So this heavy handed kind of leadership style that he became known for very quickly, this name of the punisher that.

So this heavy handed kind of leadership style that he became known for very quickly, this name of the punisher that.

He was given.

He was given.

Obviously, he still was in power in that city for twenty two odd years and I'm assuming that's just the beginning of his political career.

Obviously, he still was in power in that city for twenty two odd years and I'm assuming that's just the beginning of his political career.

Yeah, he was extremely popular, and he used exactly the same platform that he had governed with in that city to then launch his presidential bid. And so he became president in twenty sixteen, and almost immediately what he said he was going to do he did. Within days of his landslide victory. He vowed to reintroduce the death penalty, said he'd fatten all the fish in Minnila Bay with the bodies of criminals. I'm going to quote some of the things he said at that time because I think it's quite remarkable that these were said publicly on television and they're very readily accessible. He said, forget the laws on human rights. If I make it to the presidential palace, I will do just what I did as mayor. You drug pushes, hold up men and do nothings, You better go out because I'll kill you.

Yeah, he was extremely popular, and he used exactly the same platform that he had governed with in that city to then launch his presidential bid. And so he became president in twenty sixteen, and almost immediately what he said he was going to do he did. Within days of his landslide victory. He vowed to reintroduce the death penalty, said he'd fatten all the fish in Minnila Bay with the bodies of criminals. I'm going to quote some of the things he said at that time because I think it's quite remarkable that these were said publicly on television and they're very readily accessible. He said, forget the laws on human rights. If I make it to the presidential palace, I will do just what I did as mayor. You drug pushes, hold up men and do nothings, You better go out because I'll kill you.

So these are the words that he has said during campaigning. So he's platformed on these hardline policies and then won a landslide election victory.

So these are the words that he has said during campaigning. So he's platformed on these hardline policies and then won a landslide election victory.

Yeah. And I mean he had the twenty two years as mayor to point to to say, look, I have changed this city, let me do the same thing to the country. In a televised address shortly after he successfully won the presidential election, he came out and very explicitly endorsed members of the public engaging in vigilante activity, and that basically just means like taking punishment into your own hand outside of the legal system. He said directly that he would personally reward anyone who shot and killed a drug dealer. Just to give you a sense of the numbers and what we're talking about here. According to Amnesty International, more than six thousand people were killed in the first six months of Deterte's presidency as part of this so called war on drugs.

Yeah. And I mean he had the twenty two years as mayor to point to to say, look, I have changed this city, let me do the same thing to the country. In a televised address shortly after he successfully won the presidential election, he came out and very explicitly endorsed members of the public engaging in vigilante activity, and that basically just means like taking punishment into your own hand outside of the legal system. He said directly that he would personally reward anyone who shot and killed a drug dealer. Just to give you a sense of the numbers and what we're talking about here. According to Amnesty International, more than six thousand people were killed in the first six months of Deterte's presidency as part of this so called war on drugs.

It's one thing to have a prominent leader kind of take a hardline stance of this nature on drugs, but a whole other thing to kind of, you know, we're talking about what twenty sixteen to hear a leader in the modern times that we live in essentially be endorsing violence or this vigilante style activity from citizens.

It's one thing to have a prominent leader kind of take a hardline stance of this nature on drugs, but a whole other thing to kind of, you know, we're talking about what twenty sixteen to hear a leader in the modern times that we live in essentially be endorsing violence or this vigilante style activity from citizens.

Yeah, and I mean, you're right, because the war on drugs is not anything new. You know, we've seen it in US history. We've seen it to some effect here like that is not a new concept or a new idea, but what was happening in the Philippines was very different. So I said six thousand people in the first six months to give you a sense of how that was happening. The overwhelming majority of those killings were extra judicial killings by death squads. Wow, death squads being a term that Duterte himself has owned. He said in twenty twenty four last year that he had used death squads, and he said in acknowledging the existence of these death squads that they were mainly made up of gangsters. Which is interesting because, yeah, all of this is about crime.

Yeah, and I mean, you're right, because the war on drugs is not anything new. You know, we've seen it in US history. We've seen it to some effect here like that is not a new concept or a new idea, but what was happening in the Philippines was very different. So I said six thousand people in the first six months to give you a sense of how that was happening. The overwhelming majority of those killings were extra judicial killings by death squads. Wow, death squads being a term that Duterte himself has owned. He said in twenty twenty four last year that he had used death squads, and he said in acknowledging the existence of these death squads that they were mainly made up of gangsters. Which is interesting because, yeah, all of this is about crime.

Because we're seeing the state or the law enforcement colluding with organized crime in.

Because we're seeing the state or the law enforcement colluding with organized crime in.

This war on drugs.

This war on drugs.

The war on drugs, presumably organized crime has a role to play there.

The war on drugs, presumably organized crime has a role to play there.

So I guess there are those questions and of corruption.

So I guess there are those questions and of corruption.

Yeah, I mean, it's so multifaceted and there's still so much that's not known. But what we do know is that Human Rights Watch has said that what they call the urban poor were the primary targets of these death squads. And we've also learned quite a bit through the International Criminal Court, and that court alleges that Deuterte's attacks were both widespread and systematic. The court says that the crackdowns took place over a period of several years and resulted in thousands and thousands of deaths. Now, as I said, the exact number isn't known, but I was looking around to try to get a sense of it. The New York Times reports that the death toll could be around thirty thousand.

Yeah, I mean, it's so multifaceted and there's still so much that's not known. But what we do know is that Human Rights Watch has said that what they call the urban poor were the primary targets of these death squads. And we've also learned quite a bit through the International Criminal Court, and that court alleges that Deuterte's attacks were both widespread and systematic. The court says that the crackdowns took place over a period of several years and resulted in thousands and thousands of deaths. Now, as I said, the exact number isn't known, but I was looking around to try to get a sense of it. The New York Times reports that the death toll could be around thirty thousand.

What really struck me about this story is that it's not just.

What really struck me about this story is that it's not just.

About a government kind of going hard on drug manufacturing or drug dealing organizations. This seemed to be such a widespread policy that, you know, people in really remote or poorer communities where drug addiction might have been a really significant social issue in those areas, that there were kind of mass killings targeted at those more vulnerable people within the community as well.

About a government kind of going hard on drug manufacturing or drug dealing organizations. This seemed to be such a widespread policy that, you know, people in really remote or poorer communities where drug addiction might have been a really significant social issue in those areas, that there were kind of mass killings targeted at those more vulnerable people within the community as well.

Yeah, and I think the thing that stuck out to me when I was researching this is the popularity that he in. So Duturte left office extremely popular, I believe, the most popular leader in the country's history, and so he really had this kind of populist element to his popularity, and I just think that's also really interesting.

Yeah, and I think the thing that stuck out to me when I was researching this is the popularity that he in. So Duturte left office extremely popular, I believe, the most popular leader in the country's history, and so he really had this kind of populist element to his popularity, and I just think that's also really interesting.

You have mentioned that International Criminal Court investigation and the arrest at the top of the episode. So what do we need to know about how that fits into the story why now?

You have mentioned that International Criminal Court investigation and the arrest at the top of the episode. So what do we need to know about how that fits into the story why now?

Yeah, So let me just first quickly explain for our listeners what the ICC is and then we'll go into why we're talking about it today. So the ICC, or the International Criminal Court, is a un body. It's tasked with investigating crimes against humanity. So just quickly, the International Court of Justice, the ICJ that looks at countries, the ICC the one we're talking about today that looks at individuals, okay, And so they're different courts and they have different they have different mandates as well. So this court has power to issue arrest warrants and to compel people to appear before a tribunal at the Hague, which is in the Netherlands, and that's where the ICC is based. One hundred and twenty five countries are parties to the ICC, meaning they recognize its power and that they must arrest anyone on their soil with an active warrant. So that's not every country you'll notice, and so there you start to see some of the complexities that occur when we're talking about these kind of world courts. And if you're thinking, why have I heard about the ICC as of late. It has been in the headlines a fair bit over the last few years. The court has issued arrest warrants for Russian leaders, for Israeli leaders, for leaders of Hamas, and we've spoken about a few of those cases here on the podcast before. But that's kind of why we've heard a bit more from the ICC as of late.

Yeah, So let me just first quickly explain for our listeners what the ICC is and then we'll go into why we're talking about it today. So the ICC, or the International Criminal Court, is a un body. It's tasked with investigating crimes against humanity. So just quickly, the International Court of Justice, the ICJ that looks at countries, the ICC the one we're talking about today that looks at individuals, okay, And so they're different courts and they have different they have different mandates as well. So this court has power to issue arrest warrants and to compel people to appear before a tribunal at the Hague, which is in the Netherlands, and that's where the ICC is based. One hundred and twenty five countries are parties to the ICC, meaning they recognize its power and that they must arrest anyone on their soil with an active warrant. So that's not every country you'll notice, and so there you start to see some of the complexities that occur when we're talking about these kind of world courts. And if you're thinking, why have I heard about the ICC as of late. It has been in the headlines a fair bit over the last few years. The court has issued arrest warrants for Russian leaders, for Israeli leaders, for leaders of Hamas, and we've spoken about a few of those cases here on the podcast before. But that's kind of why we've heard a bit more from the ICC as of late.

Going back to Deterte, you mentioned earlier, Azara that the ICC has one hundred and twenty five country members who recognize its juristiction, but the Philippines isn't.

Going back to Deterte, you mentioned earlier, Azara that the ICC has one hundred and twenty five country members who recognize its juristiction, but the Philippines isn't.

One of those.

One of those.

No, it was until twenty nineteen when Duturte pulled the Philippines out of the ICC in response to their investigation into him. So they were a party to the ICC. They are no longer and that remains true today, which is why there are so many elements of this story in white. It's so unusual that he has now been arrested.

No, it was until twenty nineteen when Duturte pulled the Philippines out of the ICC in response to their investigation into him. So they were a party to the ICC. They are no longer and that remains true today, which is why there are so many elements of this story in white. It's so unusual that he has now been arrested.

So they launched an investigation into him when the Philippines was still part of the ICC. The Philippines withdrew at his demand. What were the International Criminal Court looking into in those early days.

So they launched an investigation into him when the Philippines was still part of the ICC. The Philippines withdrew at his demand. What were the International Criminal Court looking into in those early days.

Yeah, so prosecutors at the time alleged in their application to the ICC that and I'm just going to quote it here. President Duturte and other high level government officials reportedly encouraged, supported, enabled, and excused the killing of drug users and drug dealers, and so under that they applied for an arrest warrant. But as we just spoke about, the Philippines hasn't been a party to the ICC, and so that arrest warrant has kind of been at large for a while. However, in November, the current president of the Philippines said he wouldn't stop international police from arresting Deuturte in the Philippines.

Yeah, so prosecutors at the time alleged in their application to the ICC that and I'm just going to quote it here. President Duturte and other high level government officials reportedly encouraged, supported, enabled, and excused the killing of drug users and drug dealers, and so under that they applied for an arrest warrant. But as we just spoke about, the Philippines hasn't been a party to the ICC, and so that arrest warrant has kind of been at large for a while. However, in November, the current president of the Philippines said he wouldn't stop international police from arresting Deuturte in the Philippines.

Interesting.

Interesting.

But what's more interesting is that the current Vice president of the Philippines is Dutte's daughter. Oh my god, and so we've got the president who is basically giving the green light for the vice president's father to be arrested on home soil, which is exactly what happened.

But what's more interesting is that the current Vice president of the Philippines is Dutte's daughter. Oh my god, and so we've got the president who is basically giving the green light for the vice president's father to be arrested on home soil, which is exactly what happened.

I did not know that element.

I did not know that element.

Interesting as well, though, that the language from the Philippines has been that it wouldn't stop police from arresting Deuterte, so kind of careful political speak. I guess they're active versus passages, not necessarily facilitating the arrest, but not standing in the way. So that then brings us to the present day, Zara, what has happened this week?

Interesting as well, though, that the language from the Philippines has been that it wouldn't stop police from arresting Deuterte, so kind of careful political speak. I guess they're active versus passages, not necessarily facilitating the arrest, but not standing in the way. So that then brings us to the present day, Zara, what has happened this week?

Yeah, so on Tuesday, the Philippines Presidential Communications Office confirmed that Deuterte had been arrested after he arrived in Manila on a flight from Hong Kong. In the statement, the office said that Deuterte had received an official copy of his arrest warrant, so he knew what he had been arrested for. And then later that day, so very quickly, Ditte was put on a plane to the Hague, which, as I said earlier, is where the ICC is based, where he is expected to face charges of crimes against humanity.

Yeah, so on Tuesday, the Philippines Presidential Communications Office confirmed that Deuterte had been arrested after he arrived in Manila on a flight from Hong Kong. In the statement, the office said that Deuterte had received an official copy of his arrest warrant, so he knew what he had been arrested for. And then later that day, so very quickly, Ditte was put on a plane to the Hague, which, as I said earlier, is where the ICC is based, where he is expected to face charges of crimes against humanity.

So obviously this is a story and an investigation that has been going on for several years.

So obviously this is a story and an investigation that has been going on for several years.

But to have all of that momentum in one day.

But to have all of that momentum in one day.

Yeah, he's been arrested, he'll face the International Criminal Court, but presumably that doesn't happen immediately.

Yeah, he's been arrested, he'll face the International Criminal Court, but presumably that doesn't happen immediately.

No, So what is happening now?

No, So what is happening now?

Yeah, So nothing moves fast when we talk about international courts. You know, got to think about how many different jurisdictions and levels of law we're talking about here. So it is a slow moving process. A trial isn't expected to begin for another few months still, and when it does start, it is likely to take a very long time to get through all of this evidence has to be presented on both sides. We are, however, expecting Deterte to appear before the court as part of a pre trial hearing sometime this week sometime soon. He won't be required at this stage though, to enter a plea. This is just the pre trial part before they get to the main part of it all. In the meantime, while he awaits trial, Deturte will be kept in detention near the Hague, so near where he is being tried. And interestingly, I was reading up about the detention center he's being kept at, and he's been kept there with all the other people that are there awaiting trial. Oh wow, And so there are other world leaders and military leaders from a bunch of different countries around the world. It's not a prism in the sense that you think about when you think of a prison. Yeah, apparently they're like, you're uga classes there that they can do, so it's quite a Yeah, it's quite an interesting concept. But I did think it was unique that all of these kind of very powerful people are all being kept vaguely in the same place.

Yeah, So nothing moves fast when we talk about international courts. You know, got to think about how many different jurisdictions and levels of law we're talking about here. So it is a slow moving process. A trial isn't expected to begin for another few months still, and when it does start, it is likely to take a very long time to get through all of this evidence has to be presented on both sides. We are, however, expecting Deterte to appear before the court as part of a pre trial hearing sometime this week sometime soon. He won't be required at this stage though, to enter a plea. This is just the pre trial part before they get to the main part of it all. In the meantime, while he awaits trial, Deturte will be kept in detention near the Hague, so near where he is being tried. And interestingly, I was reading up about the detention center he's being kept at, and he's been kept there with all the other people that are there awaiting trial. Oh wow, And so there are other world leaders and military leaders from a bunch of different countries around the world. It's not a prism in the sense that you think about when you think of a prison. Yeah, apparently they're like, you're uga classes there that they can do, so it's quite a Yeah, it's quite an interesting concept. But I did think it was unique that all of these kind of very powerful people are all being kept vaguely in the same place.

That's super interesting, Zara, What kind of outcome has been predicted? What could this look like on the other side of what will no doubt be an incredibly lengthy trial, is Duturte looking at life behind bars?

That's super interesting, Zara, What kind of outcome has been predicted? What could this look like on the other side of what will no doubt be an incredibly lengthy trial, is Duturte looking at life behind bars?

What happens?

What happens?

Yeah, Look, it's very difficult to know. There's not a whole heap of precedent that's been set in this space. And I mean, if we look at the numbers since the court was created, its judges have issued just eleven convictions and four acquittals. Twenty one people have appeared before the court, and thirty one people remain at large, largely the people that you know we mentioned earlier. Charges have also been dropped against seven people due to their deaths. And so I think that gives you a sense that we don't know a whole lot. There's not this rule book that followed. These are all very unique cases in different jurisdictions. So we don't know what will happen from here. But first, as I said, there'll be that pre trial, then the trial, and then we'll have to see what happens from there.

Yeah, Look, it's very difficult to know. There's not a whole heap of precedent that's been set in this space. And I mean, if we look at the numbers since the court was created, its judges have issued just eleven convictions and four acquittals. Twenty one people have appeared before the court, and thirty one people remain at large, largely the people that you know we mentioned earlier. Charges have also been dropped against seven people due to their deaths. And so I think that gives you a sense that we don't know a whole lot. There's not this rule book that followed. These are all very unique cases in different jurisdictions. So we don't know what will happen from here. But first, as I said, there'll be that pre trial, then the trial, and then we'll have to see what happens from there.

Interestingly, you mentioned Duturte's popularity as leader, and a popularity that has stood the test of time for some people of the Philippines, because we've seen a lot of protests that have emerged on the ground there in the day since his arrest, So some more kind of knock on effects domestically for people in the Philippines, and a lot of unrest on both sides.

Interestingly, you mentioned Duturte's popularity as leader, and a popularity that has stood the test of time for some people of the Philippines, because we've seen a lot of protests that have emerged on the ground there in the day since his arrest, So some more kind of knock on effects domestically for people in the Philippines, and a lot of unrest on both sides.

Yeah, and what's interesting as well is I mentioned his daughter is the vice president. Her popularity is extremely high. She was kind of this shoe in to become president at the next election, I believe in twenty twenty eight, had really high popularity ratings. What this will do to that, no one really knows. But again, just something really interesting to consider and a complexity to all of this.

Yeah, and what's interesting as well is I mentioned his daughter is the vice president. Her popularity is extremely high. She was kind of this shoe in to become president at the next election, I believe in twenty twenty eight, had really high popularity ratings. What this will do to that, no one really knows. But again, just something really interesting to consider and a complexity to all of this.

A very very complicated story with so many interesting and and facets. Zara, thank you so much for breaking that down for us today and explaining it so well. Thanks em Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you enjoyed it, feel free to share it with a friend, or if you are watching us over on YouTube, don't forget to subscribe. We'll be back a little bit later on today with your evening headlines, but until then, have a great day.

A very very complicated story with so many interesting and and facets. Zara, thank you so much for breaking that down for us today and explaining it so well. Thanks em Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you enjoyed it, feel free to share it with a friend, or if you are watching us over on YouTube, don't forget to subscribe. We'll be back a little bit later on today with your evening headlines, but until then, have a great day.

My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait island and nations. We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait island and nations. We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.