Already and this is this is the Daily Ars.

Already and this is this is the Daily Ars.

This is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense.

This is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense.

Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday, the fourteenth of November. I'm emma, I'm Billy. Thirteen and a half. That's the average age at which Australian girls watch porn for the first time. In twenty eighteen, that figure was two years older. According to a new report on the impact of pornography on young people from the national violence prevention organization our Watch, they surveyed nearly one thousand young people aged fourteen to twenty and found that nearly three quarters of respondents said porn is degrading to women and that it shows aggression and violence against women. A third of respondents said they use porn to educate themselves about sex. So does it matter and should we care? Well? Our Watch worn's online porn can negatively affect young people's attitudes towards gender, sex and relationships, and it can lead to violence. To talk me through these findings, I'm speaking with Patti Kinnersley, the CEO of Outwatch. Patty, Welcome to the podcast.

Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday, the fourteenth of November. I'm emma, I'm Billy. Thirteen and a half. That's the average age at which Australian girls watch porn for the first time. In twenty eighteen, that figure was two years older. According to a new report on the impact of pornography on young people from the national violence prevention organization our Watch, they surveyed nearly one thousand young people aged fourteen to twenty and found that nearly three quarters of respondents said porn is degrading to women and that it shows aggression and violence against women. A third of respondents said they use porn to educate themselves about sex. So does it matter and should we care? Well? Our Watch worn's online porn can negatively affect young people's attitudes towards gender, sex and relationships, and it can lead to violence. To talk me through these findings, I'm speaking with Patti Kinnersley, the CEO of Outwatch. Patty, Welcome to the podcast.

Hi Emma, thanks very much for having me on board.

Hi Emma, thanks very much for having me on board.

We're talking today about a report from your organization, the national violence prevention organization our Watch. Before we take a closer look at some of the learnings from this report, though, can you describe sort of more broadly, the purpose of this report, why it exists, how you collate this data, who you speak to.

We're talking today about a report from your organization, the national violence prevention organization our Watch. Before we take a closer look at some of the learnings from this report, though, can you describe sort of more broadly, the purpose of this report, why it exists, how you collate this data, who you speak to.

Yes. Thanks. We have a part of our organization that speaks directly to young people. It's called the Line, and it's about sex, dating, consent, healthy relationships, and so forth. Because we know that young people need access to accurate information as they're developing relationships. So we want to make sure that the conversations we have with young people are accurate, that their voices are coming to light in the conversation, that we're not just making assumptions, and so that's a really important reason to survey. The other reason is that we know that the impact of the online environment, and particularly porn, of which ninety percent is sexualized, violence against women is having a real impact on both young men and young women, but particularly the relationship between young men's attitudes about women and entering into the real world into violence against women. And so this report just gives us another way to gather data to share with the community. So that we can keep our eye on the ball, which is the online environment is big, it's having an influence on young people, it's crossing into the real world, and adults and people in leadership roles need to pay attention and take some action.

Yes. Thanks. We have a part of our organization that speaks directly to young people. It's called the Line, and it's about sex, dating, consent, healthy relationships, and so forth. Because we know that young people need access to accurate information as they're developing relationships. So we want to make sure that the conversations we have with young people are accurate, that their voices are coming to light in the conversation, that we're not just making assumptions, and so that's a really important reason to survey. The other reason is that we know that the impact of the online environment, and particularly porn, of which ninety percent is sexualized, violence against women is having a real impact on both young men and young women, but particularly the relationship between young men's attitudes about women and entering into the real world into violence against women. And so this report just gives us another way to gather data to share with the community. So that we can keep our eye on the ball, which is the online environment is big, it's having an influence on young people, it's crossing into the real world, and adults and people in leadership roles need to pay attention and take some action.

That ninety percent figure is quite staggering. So I suppose these findings suggest, rather than there being some porn that is negatively inflam and seeing young people, the idea is that most porn is having a negative impact. Is that correct?

That ninety percent figure is quite staggering. So I suppose these findings suggest, rather than there being some porn that is negatively inflam and seeing young people, the idea is that most porn is having a negative impact. Is that correct?

Yes, Look, some young people say that they find pornography positive, for example LGBTIQA plus young people and people with disabilities, but overwhelmingly the people we young people we surveyed who actually We've also discovered that most young people are now accessing pornography at by the age of thirteen or around the age of thirteen, which is quite young, and most found it degrading and violent towards women, and that whilst many were accessing the online environment to understand and have their queer res ants at about sex and relationships, most didn't feel like that was the best place to do that, particularly because a lot of pornography demonstrates women are submissive and men in controlling and dominating positions. So we know that the data tells us that men who hold attitudes towards women that are disrespectful more likely to perpetrate violence against women in the real world. And so this data is really demonstrating to us that whilst young people are going online to learn about sex and dating and relationships because they're curious and they need to understand and they want to learn, it is having a negative impact on many young people and it's something that needs our attention.

Yes, Look, some young people say that they find pornography positive, for example LGBTIQA plus young people and people with disabilities, but overwhelmingly the people we young people we surveyed who actually We've also discovered that most young people are now accessing pornography at by the age of thirteen or around the age of thirteen, which is quite young, and most found it degrading and violent towards women, and that whilst many were accessing the online environment to understand and have their queer res ants at about sex and relationships, most didn't feel like that was the best place to do that, particularly because a lot of pornography demonstrates women are submissive and men in controlling and dominating positions. So we know that the data tells us that men who hold attitudes towards women that are disrespectful more likely to perpetrate violence against women in the real world. And so this data is really demonstrating to us that whilst young people are going online to learn about sex and dating and relationships because they're curious and they need to understand and they want to learn, it is having a negative impact on many young people and it's something that needs our attention.

Sometimes the conversation around pornography can center on teenage boys. But something that really stood out in this report to me is the average age at which girls are first viewing pornography, which has dropped by two years since twenty eighteen to thirteen point six on average. Can you tell me a little bit about young girls and their relationship with pornography how that's changed over time.

Sometimes the conversation around pornography can center on teenage boys. But something that really stood out in this report to me is the average age at which girls are first viewing pornography, which has dropped by two years since twenty eighteen to thirteen point six on average. Can you tell me a little bit about young girls and their relationship with pornography how that's changed over time.

Firstly, yep, Pornography has become increasingly accessible and widespread and normalized, and so young women are feeling pressure to watch porn from their friends or partners, and many do see porn unintentionally. It's important to note not everybody goes and seeks out porn. Sometimes expeed to them on their feeds or what have. The second thing is that young women, like young men, are curious and seeking out porn to answer some of their questions about sex and dating and relationships. One of the really challenging things here is that pornography has normalized choking or strangulation during sex. There is no safe way to do strangulation in sex, and nearly half of people between eight and thirty five have identified that they have been choked during sex in a sexual experience, which is really scary and kind of does move that notion particularly. I think that older people have that pornography is just make believe and it's not a problem for young people. As you know, the online environment is not separate to the real world, you know, and whilst people say, oh, they just need to hop offline, we know that that's not realistic. What people are learning and seeing online, particularly in pornography, which is so disrespectful and degrading of women, is crossing into their relationships.

Firstly, yep, Pornography has become increasingly accessible and widespread and normalized, and so young women are feeling pressure to watch porn from their friends or partners, and many do see porn unintentionally. It's important to note not everybody goes and seeks out porn. Sometimes expeed to them on their feeds or what have. The second thing is that young women, like young men, are curious and seeking out porn to answer some of their questions about sex and dating and relationships. One of the really challenging things here is that pornography has normalized choking or strangulation during sex. There is no safe way to do strangulation in sex, and nearly half of people between eight and thirty five have identified that they have been choked during sex in a sexual experience, which is really scary and kind of does move that notion particularly. I think that older people have that pornography is just make believe and it's not a problem for young people. As you know, the online environment is not separate to the real world, you know, and whilst people say, oh, they just need to hop offline, we know that that's not realistic. What people are learning and seeing online, particularly in pornography, which is so disrespectful and degrading of women, is crossing into their relationships.

So the younger you are when you first start consuming porn, the bigger the concern in terms of how that informs your attitudes to sex and relationships.

So the younger you are when you first start consuming porn, the bigger the concern in terms of how that informs your attitudes to sex and relationships.

You're one hundred percent correct and a health reporting New South Wales found that exposure to violent pornography was one of the foremost common factors behind harmful sexual behaviors in adolescence, so we know it is having a real impact on people.

You're one hundred percent correct and a health reporting New South Wales found that exposure to violent pornography was one of the foremost common factors behind harmful sexual behaviors in adolescence, so we know it is having a real impact on people.

You've touched on this a little bit already, but it's hard to separate this conversation from social media. A lot of headlines and talk and analysis at the minute about social media and young people's access to it. I want to learn a little bit more about that accidental interaction with pornography that you mentioned. How prevalent is that.

You've touched on this a little bit already, but it's hard to separate this conversation from social media. A lot of headlines and talk and analysis at the minute about social media and young people's access to it. I want to learn a little bit more about that accidental interaction with pornography that you mentioned. How prevalent is that.

When you think about young people spending up to forty percent of their day online, if they're being barraged with content that is disrespectful and violent towards women, and that starts to normalize. We're now seeing that one in three eighteen and nineteen year olds have experienced violence in their intimate partner relationships over the last year. So it's not surprising though that if that's what people see as normalized, then that's playing out in their relationships.

When you think about young people spending up to forty percent of their day online, if they're being barraged with content that is disrespectful and violent towards women, and that starts to normalize. We're now seeing that one in three eighteen and nineteen year olds have experienced violence in their intimate partner relationships over the last year. So it's not surprising though that if that's what people see as normalized, then that's playing out in their relationships.

What does our watch make of this plan to ban under sixteen year olds from social media If we're talking about thirteen year olds watching porn, some of them coming across it on socials. If we take that out of the equation, does that solve the problem? I mean, I think I know the answer, but I'd love to hear your perspective.

What does our watch make of this plan to ban under sixteen year olds from social media If we're talking about thirteen year olds watching porn, some of them coming across it on socials. If we take that out of the equation, does that solve the problem? I mean, I think I know the answer, but I'd love to hear your perspective.

I think what's really important in any important change that we need to make at a community level is that it needs a whole range of strategies to all working together to work. So I think legislation about limiting access to on the online environment of violent pornography might well be part of the puzzle. It wouldn't work on its own. We know that young people will access pornography still in the same way that prohibition of anything doesn't actually work. People will find their way around it, but it might be a positive part of the puzzle. What I would say is that young people are smart. They always have been smart, always will be smart, and if we give them the tools themselves to be able to critique pornography, they will find their way through it. But it's not only the legislation, or it's not only talking to young people directly. It is also that we need to be talking about respect for relationships and respect for relationships education right through a young person's life. So there's a whole of school approach to respect for relationships education that we want every school to be rolling out in its entirety, but parents can also be modeling for young people with healthy relationships look like right from the very early ages, and it needs to be age appropriate of course, So you might talk to your very little person about if you don't want that person to hug you, you don't have to, and you should ask somebody before you give them a hug. So it's age appropriate all the way through to what does ongoing consent look like for you in a sexual relationship?

I think what's really important in any important change that we need to make at a community level is that it needs a whole range of strategies to all working together to work. So I think legislation about limiting access to on the online environment of violent pornography might well be part of the puzzle. It wouldn't work on its own. We know that young people will access pornography still in the same way that prohibition of anything doesn't actually work. People will find their way around it, but it might be a positive part of the puzzle. What I would say is that young people are smart. They always have been smart, always will be smart, and if we give them the tools themselves to be able to critique pornography, they will find their way through it. But it's not only the legislation, or it's not only talking to young people directly. It is also that we need to be talking about respect for relationships and respect for relationships education right through a young person's life. So there's a whole of school approach to respect for relationships education that we want every school to be rolling out in its entirety, but parents can also be modeling for young people with healthy relationships look like right from the very early ages, and it needs to be age appropriate of course, So you might talk to your very little person about if you don't want that person to hug you, you don't have to, and you should ask somebody before you give them a hug. So it's age appropriate all the way through to what does ongoing consent look like for you in a sexual relationship?

Do you think Australian schools are ready and armed with the tools they need to have those conversations? Obviously a lot of gray, a lot of nuance when we're talking about people growing up and through that adolescence being able to see porn because we know they'll watch it, but identify that line of what is and isn't okay.

Do you think Australian schools are ready and armed with the tools they need to have those conversations? Obviously a lot of gray, a lot of nuance when we're talking about people growing up and through that adolescence being able to see porn because we know they'll watch it, but identify that line of what is and isn't okay.

I think schools have a lot of the tools at their disposal, and schools are under a lot of pressure to do a lot of things. But we can see the importance of this issue in healthy relationships and consent as people move into adult life and there's sexual assault and sexual harassment happening in universities. We've got legislation now in place about workplaces and sexual assault and sexual harassment, so it is one of the most important settings we have to be talking to young people. In education. Some schools are doing it really well, others are on the journey. One of the key issues though, is that adults themselves who are teachers need to do some of their homework themselves about what does pornography look like, how to speak about it, how to speak to young people. They need to be comfortable the content themselves so that they can have comfortable conversations with young people.

I think schools have a lot of the tools at their disposal, and schools are under a lot of pressure to do a lot of things. But we can see the importance of this issue in healthy relationships and consent as people move into adult life and there's sexual assault and sexual harassment happening in universities. We've got legislation now in place about workplaces and sexual assault and sexual harassment, so it is one of the most important settings we have to be talking to young people. In education. Some schools are doing it really well, others are on the journey. One of the key issues though, is that adults themselves who are teachers need to do some of their homework themselves about what does pornography look like, how to speak about it, how to speak to young people. They need to be comfortable the content themselves so that they can have comfortable conversations with young people.

We'll be right back with the rest of today's deep dive, but first here's a word from our sponsors. Young people, as you said, aren't going to stop watching porn, So what do you want them to know about what they're consuming? If there was one big attitude shift that you could waive a magic wand and see happen overnight, what should they know.

We'll be right back with the rest of today's deep dive, but first here's a word from our sponsors. Young people, as you said, aren't going to stop watching porn, So what do you want them to know about what they're consuming? If there was one big attitude shift that you could waive a magic wand and see happen overnight, what should they know.

Look, knowing that young people spend only half of their day online and the real world and the online world are pretty connected, we need to talk to young people where they're at, and so we run a campaign called the Line, which is for young people, and it's on TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat and Facebook for the old young people that talks about healthy relationships, what consent looks like, what is normal relationships? What is violent? And so I would just say to young people to not only look at the line and other resources the e Safet Commission, for example, to be really checking what is realistic and what is fantasy, but also lifting their eyes and having a look at what a healthy relationships look like. In the adults, they know what are they seeing in workplaces when they first go to work, what are they seeing in school, so they can put the online environment in context with the broader environment that they live in.

Look, knowing that young people spend only half of their day online and the real world and the online world are pretty connected, we need to talk to young people where they're at, and so we run a campaign called the Line, which is for young people, and it's on TikTok, Instagram, Snapchat and Facebook for the old young people that talks about healthy relationships, what consent looks like, what is normal relationships? What is violent? And so I would just say to young people to not only look at the line and other resources the e Safet Commission, for example, to be really checking what is realistic and what is fantasy, but also lifting their eyes and having a look at what a healthy relationships look like. In the adults, they know what are they seeing in workplaces when they first go to work, what are they seeing in school, so they can put the online environment in context with the broader environment that they live in.

Also, another big dialogue is happening around the national domestic violence crisis. Do you think that there is enough attention being paid to young people and pornography when it comes to thinking about prevention measures when it comes to understanding young men and violent behaviors.

Also, another big dialogue is happening around the national domestic violence crisis. Do you think that there is enough attention being paid to young people and pornography when it comes to thinking about prevention measures when it comes to understanding young men and violent behaviors.

Look, you're right to connect the two. This year, already sixty five women have been murdered allegedly at the hands of men. And we know that violence against women, all violence against women is underpinned by disrespect and rigid gender stereotypes and sexism. Obviously people are seeing that online. I think that the work going on across the country Free absolutely needs to take more attention of young men and how young men are learning and how they're feeling about the conversation. And I think that people have also known that, but the online environment has perhaps snuck up on everybody, and so we now need to be really figuring out how to talk to young men where they are, which is online, but they're not Also, they're not always only online. They also live in the real world and you know, in their music, in their sport, in their faith, in their work that they do after school and in their school. So it is a matter of keep talking to people, keep listening to young people about what they need, and then building new programs who we need them.

Look, you're right to connect the two. This year, already sixty five women have been murdered allegedly at the hands of men. And we know that violence against women, all violence against women is underpinned by disrespect and rigid gender stereotypes and sexism. Obviously people are seeing that online. I think that the work going on across the country Free absolutely needs to take more attention of young men and how young men are learning and how they're feeling about the conversation. And I think that people have also known that, but the online environment has perhaps snuck up on everybody, and so we now need to be really figuring out how to talk to young men where they are, which is online, but they're not Also, they're not always only online. They also live in the real world and you know, in their music, in their sport, in their faith, in their work that they do after school and in their school. So it is a matter of keep talking to people, keep listening to young people about what they need, and then building new programs who we need them.

Is there a world where we can teach young people about sex positivity and learning about themselves, their sexuality and their bodies and that coexisting with the world of online pornography or do we need to reset I.

Is there a world where we can teach young people about sex positivity and learning about themselves, their sexuality and their bodies and that coexisting with the world of online pornography or do we need to reset I.

Think both things are true. There is absolutely a world where young people like I think the pendulum is a bit out of order at the moment. You know, the online environments, it's having a big impact on people but young people are smart, they will figure this out. We need to trust them, We need to give them more information, we need to listen to them more. Prohibition has not worked in anything, but we are able to reduce the harm of anything that is harmful with education, legislation and trust and communications. Now, whether that's cars still have the ability to drive fast, but we've learned how to put a whole range of supports around that. You know, young people have to do one hundred and twenty hours before they get their peeplates. You know, there's better breaks, better cars, all of those sorts of things. So that's talking to people, training them, and putting legislation in place. So we have to find a way for both to exist.

Think both things are true. There is absolutely a world where young people like I think the pendulum is a bit out of order at the moment. You know, the online environments, it's having a big impact on people but young people are smart, they will figure this out. We need to trust them, We need to give them more information, we need to listen to them more. Prohibition has not worked in anything, but we are able to reduce the harm of anything that is harmful with education, legislation and trust and communications. Now, whether that's cars still have the ability to drive fast, but we've learned how to put a whole range of supports around that. You know, young people have to do one hundred and twenty hours before they get their peeplates. You know, there's better breaks, better cars, all of those sorts of things. So that's talking to people, training them, and putting legislation in place. So we have to find a way for both to exist.

And last but not least, Patty, where can our listeners go to find some of these resources if they'd like to learn a bit more?

And last but not least, Patty, where can our listeners go to find some of these resources if they'd like to learn a bit more?

Great the line which is just the line at our watch dot org. Are you and there's all sorts of resources on there, and the e Safety Commission also has resources for both young people and parents as well.

Great the line which is just the line at our watch dot org. Are you and there's all sorts of resources on there, and the e Safety Commission also has resources for both young people and parents as well.

Brilliant. We will pop some of those links in the show notes. Patti, thank you so much for your time today.

Brilliant. We will pop some of those links in the show notes. Patti, thank you so much for your time today.

Thanks so much, Emma, I really appreciate having a conversation with you.

Thanks so much, Emma, I really appreciate having a conversation with you.

That is all we have time for on today's episode of The Daily Oars. Thank you so much for listening, and while we have you, I have a quick question. We would love some feedback. You may have noticed that for the last two weeks we have been splitting up the podcast to bring you the Deep Dive and the news headlines as two separate episodes.

That is all we have time for on today's episode of The Daily Oars. Thank you so much for listening, and while we have you, I have a quick question. We would love some feedback. You may have noticed that for the last two weeks we have been splitting up the podcast to bring you the Deep Dive and the news headlines as two separate episodes.

Our longer episodes like this one, where we analyze one of the big stories of the week, are published in the morning and then in the afternoons. We've been bringing you the latest news in a short bulletin to get you up to date for the commute home.

Our longer episodes like this one, where we analyze one of the big stories of the week, are published in the morning and then in the afternoons. We've been bringing you the latest news in a short bulletin to get you up to date for the commute home.

But we never want to make a permanent decision without asking our audience first, so we want to know what do you think. Do you think that we should keep doing it that way or do you want things back the way they were where we have the longer Deep Dive and the headlines all in the same episode. If you do have thoughts, feedback, vibes, anything that you want to tell us, we would love to hear from you. Just send us a DM on Instagram sliding to our dms. We are at the Daily ohs and we will put a link to that in the show notes. Thank you so much again for listening to this episode of The Daily os and we'll be back this afternoon, not tomorrow. We'll be back saturnoon.

But we never want to make a permanent decision without asking our audience first, so we want to know what do you think. Do you think that we should keep doing it that way or do you want things back the way they were where we have the longer Deep Dive and the headlines all in the same episode. If you do have thoughts, feedback, vibes, anything that you want to tell us, we would love to hear from you. Just send us a DM on Instagram sliding to our dms. We are at the Daily ohs and we will put a link to that in the show notes. Thank you so much again for listening to this episode of The Daily os and we'll be back this afternoon, not tomorrow. We'll be back saturnoon.

Bye bye.

Bye bye.

My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung Kalkuton woman from Gadighol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung Kalkuton woman from Gadighol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present.