The Crossover NBA ShowRohan Nadkarni and Chris Herring break down the league's newly announced rule changes for flopping and coaches challenges before getting into what new lineups we're looking forward to seeing next year post free agency
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Welcome back to another episode of the Crossover Podcast. I'm Rohan Knockerney joined today. Fine, my good friend, sports illustrated senior writer, New York Times best selling author of the book Blood in the Garden. He only lives in high rises. Please welcome to the show. Chris Haring heiring. How's it going, buddy man?
This is straight up whatever you can or whatever you say can and will be housed against you. I literally just told you that like twelve seconds ago in the context of tornado watches and stuff like that and being able to see them. But I'm I'm fine. I'm just looking forward to the week being over.
How are you?
I feel you man? All always looking forward to the weekend. I think that's the general vibe I give off. We are This is easily just like the worst. I wouldn't say the worst, No, I take that back. Wimbledon's going on, we got the WNBA going on. It's a very slow time for like the conventional American sports fan, and yet here we are doing an NBA podcast in the middle of July Summer League is over going on. I don't know. I don't pay attention to summer League. We've discussed that on this podcast before. But there are a few things I would like to discuss with you today, Chris. We did get a little bit of news confirmed this week. This was something that had been rumored to be happening over the last few weeks, and now it is going to be official. For the twenty three to twenty four season. Flopping technicals will be introduced, a technical for an obvious flop, and coaches will have an extra challenge if they get their first challenge, right, Chris, where do you want to start with this? The challenges of the flopping which one's more interesting to you?
I mean, what I really want to talk about is whether people can challenge whether something should have been called to flop, you know, whether we can get after the fact technicals after coaches have But I mean we can start with either. I think both are I mean, just in a general sense, I think both are positive things. I think I don't know of anyone that wasn't in favor of the idea of coaches getting an extra challenge.
When they're correct.
I think the NFL has had that for a while at this point, and it doesn't feel like everybody should get the same number if some are using them and they're wrong constantly and other guys are right. So I think there should be a reward to it. But we could start with either one. I guess I just kind of start talking about one a little bit there.
You know, I mighty actually zag on this a little bit. I don't know that I want coaches to get the extra challenge. So it's funny because Spoe was asked about this during the finals. Somebody said, I think it was actually a pregame press conference. Was just kind of funny, and somebody asked Spoe what he thought about the rumored potential rule change, and at first he was like, I like it, that makes sense, and he goes, I will get annoyed though, because players will keep doing that replay signal, oh even more now, Like we see guys who are so egregious with the finger twirl, like first quarter out of bounce call, they're calling for a coach to challenge it. Oh And I you know, that obviously doesn't annoy me as much as the idea of introducing another stoppage to the game.
Yeah, Well, here's the thing though, I mean, I hear that side of it. In some ways, though, I would think that it makes coaches more judicious about what they're gonna challenge, because if you know, and particularly about the idea of using it in the first quarter, it has to be like clearly the wrong call to go for it at that point if you're not going to get it back. You know, it's already abundantly important the idea of whether you're going to use it or not. But if I would probably be even more likely to kind of block out my players if I know that not only can we potentially get this call fixed, but I'm going to get an extra one if I'm right. It kind of puts more onus on the coaches to really know what they're asking for a review on and not have it be just the.
Run of the mill play. You know. It's kind of a double whammy in that way.
I would think, Yeah, that's an interesting argument that I haven't heard before. The idea that if they get the extra one only if they're right, they have to now be very sure if they're going to use it earlier in the game. That makes sense. I'm very curious to see how this ends up playing out, because there's some coaches likes who just seem to hate using the challenge and save it for the very end of the game almost always. And you know there are others who was it the challenge would call on the first quarter of a playoff game this year? Was it Darvin ham Gosh or I think it was Budenholtzer. It was Budenholtzer.
That kind of sound right, Yea.
To be honest, there are some guys who seem to use it just to get it out of the way, Like if I use it now, my players can't complain about it later in the game.
Yeah.
Do you think the flopping tech is the kind of rule that we'll see a lot in the first month of the season and then never see again, or do you think that it'll actually stand the test of time.
Uh? I think we'll see some a little bit more beyond just the first month. First of all, I wouldn't like if you asked me to guess how many will be called or how often it will happen, I would have no clue. But I mean, it's like anything where people are still going to test the theory and there and the need to get it out of their system, whether it was Chris Paul and Harden and all these other guys you know that were essentially doing their very best tobait refs in the calls to draw calls by you know, trying to find contact basically, and trying to induce contact in ways where they were the person doing it and not anybody else. You know, it was really jarring, to be honest with you, to watch what was it two years ago when that was first put into effect with the offensive owves and everything, and the idea that stuff just wasn't going to be called at all when it was going to be called seven eight times a game previously. It makes guys look silly, and so I think that there will need to be that for probably a month or two. When I think about even even the guys that are good defenders, Marcus Smart, you know, the Blake Griffin's, the guys that take a lot of charge is Kyle Lowry was guilty of plenty of flops even in the finals, you know, to a lot of people's.
But these the culture, how dare.
You Kevin love Well, Kevin loves normally don't look like flops to be honest with you, is taking flops, right, So.
That's the thing is like he's taking legitimate hits.
But that's the thing is I think it also sets up guys that just line themselves up to take a lot of charges. Are going to be a lot of the people that might get hit with these because sometimes even if you don't get the amount of contact you're expecting, you're going to preemptively try to fall and start to fall and start to have it look a certain way. So we'll see that'll be really interesting to watch. I again, I don't know which direction it will go. I would imagine that it'll kind of peter out over the course of the season. Maybe it's more abrupt than that where it's just you know, the first three weeks, reps are really aggressive about calling it like they generally are, and they're generally coached to do that and told to do that, and it might set an example very quickly nobody. You know, we talk about challenges and stuff. Okay, a challenge, depending on what it is, might not cost you points as much as just an inconvenient foul or foul trouble on someone that you really want to have available. A technical fouls points a technical foul, as points potentially the ball as well.
I guess it's a flagrant.
But anyway, it's interesting to think about, and it's it'll be interesting to see how quickly that shifts kind of the thought process on all of it.
Two, if this rule was in place two years ago, do you think the Boston media mafia still would have been able to vote Marcus Smart Defensive Player of the Year.
I mean, but also, let's be real in saying that they weren't the sole reason he won the order.
I mean also, I've voted really good too.
It was a successful it was a successful propaganda campaign in all. Seriously, let me ask you this question, who are you Which player are you most interested to see play under the flop tech era?
I mean, I think a lot of guys have kind of grown out of it a little bit, But I mean, like Patrick Beverly has been interesting before. Yeah, and I'm pretty sure he was one of the last people to get hit with the warning if I remember correctly. The league still issues those every once in a blue moon, and I think he's gotten a few of them. I also think he's just my standard answer for a lot of questions as far as funny stuff is concerned flops going into the you know, the crowd to go get a camera and show the ref that you know that something was a foul.
You name it, so I'll put Patrick Beverley on the phone.
God, the camera thing was unbelievable.
That was surreal.
I am very interested to see how this because we know the defensive irritants, we know the Chris Pauls of the world, who are I didn't even know if they're floppers necessarily, much as they like to push the envelope and test the referees, I'm very interested to see how they're calling these flop texts for star players because anytime Lebron gets one, If he gets one, it's going to be a huge deal. It's going to be it's gonna lead first take when he gets his first flop tech. And I'm very interested to see if the refs are really willing to hand these out to star players, because I don't know. I have my doubts that they're going to be willing to really take a risk there. I maybe the first couple weeks of the season, and then we have to like when this, if this happens in a playoff game, Chris, it's going to be pandemonium.
Then all of a sudden as we talk about flop techs and technical foul kings. I mean, obviously Rashid Wallace is kind of in a league of his own, but it now has me curious about like how many certain people would have had if like whether certain people.
Would have pushed Rashid Wallace's technical foul record.
I mean, obviously they wouldn't if you know, again, we're talking about how the behavior is gonna shift once they really hammered down this in the first few weeks.
But it's just funny to think about.
It's also really funny because it's like we in our mind we know who the some of the abusers of it have been in the past, but there's no official record keeping of it. So it's like it's all just kind of even when you ask me, like who are you really looking forward to seeing or who are you most curious about, I mean, it's just it's.
It's just kind of.
Lore at this point as far as the way we think about it, because it's just like, oh, we all know that Marcus Smart has done it, we all know Patrick Beverley has done it, we all know you know, Chris Paul. So it's like we but we think about these guys as people that are on the floor a lot in Star Players. One of the most fun, kind of weird stories I remember working on is when I was with five point thirty eight, was about I wasn't interested in the sheer number of charges people took necessarily they started.
Calculating that at one point throughout the league.
I wanted to know who was the most successful charge taker, Like who is the guy that most often takes charges and never gets called for blocks? And so I you know, I ended up almost like creating a statistic for a season called charge rate. And I think that Anthony Tolliver was the guy that like never got called for pets, And so that speaks to what you're saying about Kevin Love is like he's not really flopping, Like he's just really really good at taking position and you know, lo and Behold. In interviewing him for the story, Anthony Tolliver's like, well, yeah, when I was in college, our coach had us practice it as a team, like every one of us and we would win awards for whoever took the most at the end of the season. So I got four years to practice it and then got to the pros and continued to practice it. So there are reasons some guys are better than others, but this is a really good incentive to not try to take one unless you're not even not even just charges, by the way, we're talking about flopping, not charges, but the idea that obviously that is a place where people are going to try to flop a lot, and we've seen any number The funniest ones to me are always the ones where someone is in proximity of someone's elbow and then you know they just where they snapped their head back, and then when you see and the announcers react really strongly to it, and then you watch the replay and.
It's a phantom it's phantom contact.
So those will be interesting, and again we're just gonna have to see of like how quickly is the line drawn. I'm sure the refs are going to be on edge to call it, and maybe that kind of nips it in the bud right away. But I think it's a positive rule change, and I think, you know, the league, it's weird to get props and shoutouts to the league because this is probably overdue we all knew that this should have been part of the game before, but similar to last year with regards to the take fouls, it did seem to make the game better and faster and less stoppages. And so hopefully this won't be less stoppages right away, but hopefully it just cleans up the game and rids it of something that I think most people were pretty annoyed by.
First of all, I don't like when you talk about the super coolest stuff that you used to do at five thirty eight. Feels like you're kind of comparing me to an X and it's like, look at how much you know, how much more fun I was having. We were so much more adventurous number one, number two, number two. I I'm also interested how it's applied, Like, are they gonna be calling these texts in real time? Are they going to be going back and looking at the monitor and saying, oh, this in the first quarter, this was a flop and now you're getting a tech for it. Who who's gonna be the first player to be ejected from a game because one of their texts was a flop? Tech? That's going to be really interesting. There's there's a lot that's gonna go on in this and I think it's gonna be fairly fun.
Chris, I'm gonna have to rewire a little bit. I mean, they really are said.
It's it's really interesting to me that like people that have played a sport for however long they played it. Chris Paul I was writing a story on him that that's up now. I think he's thirty eight man and like he's been doing what he does for quite a while. It's it's it requires are rewiring to not you know, as we've seen with a lot of the guys, as far as trying to draw up fowls and draw defensive fowls on guys. And it's it requires a reset a little bit of just mentally. And I want to say it was hard. And I remember Lillard had a really slow start too. A few guys just of trying to adjust to the idea that you weren't going to get certain foul calls anymore. That the ripped through was another one. You know, it's a it'll be a hard reset for certain people. But I but I would imagine within a few weeks or a month, month and a half that you know that people are able to kind of stop doing it. But the idea of someone getting ejected over a second tech that's a flop is hilarious.
And that chef's.
Twitter still exists. YEA, be a good time.
I'm going to be. I'm gonna be talking about it on Blue Sky for sure. I want to discuss something I'm writing about for us I that should be up later today, hopefully by the time all of you are listening to this podcast. But I'm just writing about new lineups I'm excited to see this season. Chris, you know, the dust is not fully settled on free agency as much as some of our friends in the industry, like our friend of me, Michael Pena, are trying to will Damian Lillard to other teams.
Besides the Heat, we are interesting.
We're still waiting on Dame to land somewhere. But I would say we are getting a good sense now of what the league is going to look like next year, how these teams are taking shape. So I just wanted to run through some new combinations we're excited to see this year. I don't know if you want to go first, If you have one right now at your fingertips that you want to talk about, or if you'd like me to drop my first lineup.
Okay, I again, this is the ones that we're most intrigued by, are most interested in seeing. Yeah, okay, I didn't know if it was like saying the ones we think will be best dirty things. Okay, no, no, no, I mean this is what I wrote about today as well. Just roll it out. Just Chris Paul with the Warriors, because it's like, do we expect him to be a starter when he was traded there, I immediately just assumed he's going to be a bench guy, right, just because they've had essentially one of the most effective starting lineups in the league for a few years. And you know, it's not the death lineup or anything like that, but it's it's it's got a little bit of everything. And obviously anytime Stephan Claire on the courtnet has shooting, it's got defense. From the standpoint of Looney being out there, We've seen how well he moves his feed even at the top of the key against guys and and switches. We've seen Draymond, you know, play at defensive player of the Year levels, and Andrew Wiggins is kind of the cherry on top for them. We saw how much they struggled without him, and and quite frankly, I you know, I wouldn't say that was the sole reason that they didn't get further in last year's playoffs, But I mean, you saw that they can win a championship with him on the court. He's their best defender at this point on the wing. So who are you pulling out of that lineup to insert Chris Paul into it? I could see doing it, but I just don't know, Like I imagine you're going to take out either Looney or Wiggins, and neither one of those is like something that I'm looking forward to doing. I'm not looking forward to replacing either of them Chris Paul. And I did I realize this until I was reading Anthony Slater's story over at the Athletic. Chris Paul has never, not even once in his career, come off the bench. He has had essentially the longest streak to start a career without ever coming off the bench.
Crazy so, and not to mention that.
Earlier this week, he was interviewed out in Vegas and was asked the question of like what he thinks of the second unit and what he would think of leading it? And he literally shot back, you coaching question mark two who asked the question, so you know, and granted it was ingest, and then he said, look, we haven't talked about that yet. It's not the sort of thing you would talk about and getting to know you conversation, like in a first conversation with someone over the phone. Look, I think ultimately, if you're just asking my opinion, I think it will be best for Chris Paul to come off the bench, if not right away then at some point, because we've already seen this lineup be effective. Chris Paul is not getting any younger, so he's while he's incredibly cerebral, and we all know that, including on the defensive end, I don't see him boosting them as much defensively as either of the two guys that he could potentially replace.
To be honest with you, if he was.
Going to replace anyone, I would maybe say it should be Clay, but I don't think that makes sense for them either, So I just don't know that the upside of including him on offense over one of those guys makes enough sense.
But egos are a thing.
I would imagine that if anybody can set aside their ego. It would be a guy who desperately wants to win his first championship with the team that has already won four of them, with a core that has already won four of them, and a coach that has won four of them. So I think he can get over it. But I don't think it's like as simple as just snapping your fingers and it's done. I think even his press conference from earlier this week hinted at that there's pride there, but because of that push pull, because of the fact that the Warriors had the most turnovers in the league, and Chris Paul, even at his aging spot in his career, is a four four and a half to one assistant turnover ratio, and his career, they could desperately use his ball handling and his sense of calm with this team. He's also still a very good mid range shooter. He's a very good change of pace for them. As far as all the pick and rolls runs for a team that doesn't really use many of them, I think that could be really useful off their bench. I think it could be very useful with their starters. Quite frankly, but you know, I think it will be a fascinating thing to watch because they've already got a really good starting group. How does he fit in with that or how does he not and where do you use him? So I'm really intrigued by that. That's one of my biggest questions for any team this year.
For sure. I think I do think Chris Paul will eventually come off the bench, even if it doesn't happen right away. I would say the majority of his games this year will be off the bench. And that's what really helps. To have someone like Steph Curry who was willing to come off the bench in a playoff, multiple playoff games, and when you have someone like that, I think setting the tone. And I also think Chris Paul is going to get a lot of good minutes to run with that second unit, and it could be an interesting group. You got Looney Sarich, Kaminga, Gary Payton, Moses Moody. They'll have some good pieces to move around him in that second unit. I think he'll get a chance. I think he'll relish those opportunities because he'll have an opportunity to put his stamp on the game with the second unit in a way he won't with the first unit. So I think that'll be really interesting. I think that's definitely a lineup I'm looking forward to. Let me go maybe a little off the board for you here, Okay, this is a lineup I'm interested to see this year. I have no idea if it'll be good. Let's go to the let's go to Dallas. So we have Kyrie and Luca Grant, Williams, Maxi Kleiva and Dante Exam. So everyone's talking about how Dante ExHAM allegedly found his three point shot in Europe, like he was shooting like close to forty percent from three.
Who knows.
Here's the thing. People will sit here with one face and tell you like, oh, this guy was killing in Summer League. But then like you say, you say someone shot forty percent from three in Europe, and they're like, oh it was.
But here's my thing. I'm not I'm not making that face with Summer League. I know I know you are. I know you are, but I'm definitely yeah.
So that's what that's the thing is. I just want to see it. If Exam can shoot.
I would like to see it. This is like the second the motory.
No, it's it's one of the best it's one of the best listen. If Xem can defend, and even if he's not, if he's just shooting average from three, because he's never a great three point shooter, if they can get up to thirty, if he can get up to thirty four to thirty five percent, that becomes a really interesting two way lineup because I think Exim becomes a good defender. Williams is a good defender. Kleiba is not a traditional rim protector, but he holds up well and switches and I think it's pretty good on the defensive end. An underrated guy, you're always gonna have to deal with Kyrie and Luca. But that that interests me a little bit. I think that's a potentially higher ceiling lineup than some of the other options that the MAVs have had in the last couple of years.
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's intriguing. Mannix and I talked about that on the last podcast we did. I think about the idea of He was asking me what I thought of their summer and I said, look, I don't you know, up until the Grant william stuff, I did not love their summer. I think, you know, we could all admit that Kyrie came back at a higher number, and not even just that, really just the length of the contract and the guaranteed nature of it. The player option in year three was not something I would have wanted to do, would have felt comfortable with. But I mean, Dante exem I think is exactly the sort of player that if you're Dallas, what are you losing by rolling out that opportunity to him. I've loved Dante ExHAM for as long as I can remember from the standpoint of the guy just defense. I also have a huge soft spot for another guy that I think is still on their roster, and Frank lil Kean.
I don't know if he's still there, but.
Frank, I've always had soft spots for guys that really really defend their butt off and give their very best effort. You always kind of, you know, for me, help springs eternal that the shooting will will, you know, find it's way to them that the work on it enough, but also that maybe they're in the right environment where you can afford to have a non shooter on the court or a shooter that's not great on the court because they do other stuff so well. Dante Exum, first of all, is a great defender, great effort, works hard. But also from what I remember, was playing very well when he got hurt the last time, and it might have been accurate the last two times. And so it wasn't like he lost the opportunity because he wasn't showing improvement or that he wasn't playing well or playing hard. He just was his body was giving out repeatedly. So it might happen again here. He might not develop, he might have regressed in some ways because of all this stuff. Time will tell, but I think it was like a spot on sort of opportunity that the MAVs need to take because they really don't have many other routes to improve the team, and they desperately need more defense. Grant Williams was obviously a way to address that at what I thought was a very reasonable number. So I think that that could be a really good lineup for them. I think we have to see. Uh. I think that there's no reason they shouldn't be able to score, even if it's just Luca and and Kyrie.
By itself, you should be able to score.
But uh, you know, if Grant Williams is given the green light and he actually takes it and shoots and shoots anywhere near what he did last season percentage wise, it.
Could be a very very fruitful lineup for them.
So I like, for sure Cleb can shoot too. Do you have another one or do you want me to go again?
I'll give you one more? Okay, okay.
So we're gonna go to the Midwest where I know you are right now tomorrow, not necessarily Chicago, but we'll go one state over.
We'll go to Indiana.
Uh, Tyrese Halliburton, let's see here, Bruce Brown.
Bruce Money, Bags Brown, Buddy.
Healed, Obi, top End, Miles Turner. So you've just you've got, I mean, you've got a team now that is.
You've got.
And what was that stat that they showed when the Bruce Brown deal got completed, Well, the Obi deal got completed. I think ESPN had it in one of their stories and it was like Tyrese Haliburton, Bruce Brown and Obie Topping and some order I can't remember which. Over the last two seasons are have been the most efficient players and like the highest percentile in transition over the last two years. So this is a team that has the ability to play really fast. Will they hemorrhage a little bit on defense? Probably a little, Like I mean, I think Bruce Brown and Miles Turner are fine defenders. I think Halliburton and Healed and Topping or probably not. But but this is a team that already plays fast, and now you're adding two guys that absolutely will help you kind of forge a track meet if you want. They're going to be really, really difficult to stop. You've got a lot of ball handling in a group. With a group like that, You've got a lot of guys that are gonna race up and down the floor, and you've got a pretty good amount of shooting between Haliburt and Buddy Held, Miles Turner, Obi Toppins not a bad shooter, and certainly Bruce Brown is not a bad shooter either.
I mean, like all five of those guys can shoot.
M I you know, I like the idea of kind of seeing what you can get out of that group just you know, running other teams dry basically. So I'm excited to see it just because it'll be a lot of fun for a team that is already pretty fun, but also a team that you know there are gonna be some elements of what the what the Kings did last year, just as far as how fast this team is going to play, how much shooting they have on the floor at times, It's gonna be a lot of fun.
That's a very interesting pick. I like it a lot. Healed could also be interchange with someone like Ben Matherin in that configuration, and the transition stats are really good. One that's really interesting, Indy. We'll have to have a more serious question about them at some point because they're looming. Is an interesting team, especially if they go out and try to get someone like Pascal Siakam. Yeah, too, that would be a lot of fun, man. I would Haliburton was obviously fantastic last season. I love them bringing in Bruce Brown, and I think that's a great deal for both sides. They're very interesting. That's one that's a that's really like a new group, like I have no idea how it's gonna look, and I'm with you, it's it's a it's a small group too, but that's the kind of lineup like regular season, especially you run that out against the right team on the wrong night for them, and you're just like you said, it's a track meet. And they're running them off the floor, and it's gonna be really hard to slow a group like down. Group like that down. That's a really fun pick. Let me hit you with a couple more. Let's stay in the Midwest about a team you wrote about this week, and let me start here. Do you think the Calves will have the stomach to play Mac Struce and George Niang together a lot this regular season? Because because the lineup I would like to see is Garland Mitchell, Struce, Niang and Evan Mobley.
Ooh, that's a fun one.
Well, here's the thing, and I mean not seeking to be controversial here. I mean I think some capstans would tell you they'd probably like to see it too. If you decided to move off of Jared Allen, that's your lineup, right, Like, yeah, that's what you would be doing, and then you would be trading Alan either for another presumably like another really player. Yeah, but you have Struce there that I imagine he probably slots into that fifth starter spot. You still need depth, and that's where the team has been weak. They were really really bad. They were the worst bench team uh in the playoffs, and I think they were maybe the worst or second worst, and in terms of scoring, they were worst or second worst in the regular season as well. So I mean it's hard to look at and this is kind of what I said in my story about them, is like, this was a really nice offseason for them, but they still need more. Niang is capable of starting. We've seen him do it with Philly, We've seen him in other situations too in Utah.
He can start.
I think he was actually like, it was not he thought I had in mind before the off season, but he was about as perfect like body type wise and just roll basically a younger version of like a Kevin Love type within the standpoint of like what Kevin Love does now. He was about as good a replacement as you could really get. And I thought got him again for like a reasonable number. I think it was what three for twenty six in his case. I thought it was a very very smart deal for them. He could start now, you would only need to start him if you're not going to play one of Alan or Mobley, and obviously you're going to start them well, they've both been All Stars. But the question that I think a lot of us had is like, are they going to bring Alan back? You would obviously keep Mobilely given his upside, but just the lineup itself, regardless of whether Alan is kept, you can use the data from that lineup to make a decision about whether you feel like it makes sense to keep Alan long term, move them at the deadline, move them next offseason. It's a fascinating look at something and something that really, even when I wrote that story, had not really considered. But you can bet your bottom dollar that the Calves are going to be paying a lot of attention to that lineup data with that group if they get chances to play them, if that group is healthy and they're able to play them together a.
Lot for sure. I'm just really interested to see it. I'm with you. I do think I don't want to be out on the Calves too big lineup after one postseason. But they're on a little bit of a clock because of the Mitchell contract. It's not so simple. It's going to be a very expensive team if they try to keep everyone together. Garland, Mitchell, Mobiley all gonna be on Big Max's. If Jeremy Grant had not signed such a huge contract. I kind of think like an Allen for Grant, something around that centered around. That would have been very interesting.
I just like the language speaking today, man, Like I like, I feel like we're in over these.
There we go, there we go. It just I think that's the kind of player they need, and that would be a very interesting look for them to have. But it's also I'm also just not sure if Mobiley's going to be more of a four five or three four, which is a big question, right, Yeah, a big question for them, and that's gonna have to play out this season. So they're they're very interesting.
I think that.
Like as much as I like Strews and obviously like I think the deal Mads.
You watch your mouth whatever you want to say about Max Streuts, that's also that's Eastern Conference champion Max Drews.
Man, I don't like I think that it was. I understand what they're doing. I think that he could be a huge path for them. I think that the lot of us at a lot of people in general are thinking about him as slightly inflated due to the playoff runs.
They agree to them, was not a knockdown shooter necessarily during this last playoff runt.
That's my only point is that he like he's been a perfectly fine, he's been a slightly above league average.
Shooter basically for his career.
Now, granted that's in a lineup where it's it's pretty equal opportunity. Jimmy Butler, even for everything he does, is not someone that dominates the ball in that offense. Uh, He's someone that more does it in key moments. But for a team where you've got so much attention that is going to be devoted to the two lead guards on that team, you can imagine how many kickoff passes they are going to be. You know, at some point maybe Mobley is commanding double teams. Alan probably is not that sort of guy, but Max Struce is going to be in position to take a lot of open shots potentially. And I think what was always so important about this team dating back to last season when they got Mitchell, whoever that fifth guy is is going to need to be able to hit shots.
And so.
Like there's a part of me that like, in a perfect world, if he was healthy, and I know the Pistons just picked him up. And I know Michael Michael Pino was not critical, but he was saying, like, this might not be the payoff that the Pistons were thinking was Joe Harris would be a really good fit, like a prime Joe Harris, like a knockdown shooter Joe Harris, and a lineup like that would have been perfect.
Now.
I understand he's been banged up. I understand he's.
Regressed a little bit, but Max Struce is like he's he's a good pick up for them, But I don't know if it's a great pickup yet. If he develops into a better shooter than he's been, then it's a home run signing for them. And even if it's not, I don't think that it was a bad sign I thing it was something sensible. But I do think that there there was a like I think Grant the way you were talking about him is like he's kind of if Kris Lavert, if you could kind of mold him a little bit more, He's exactly what Ryan is, like what you would hope Carrislbert could become is what Grant is. And I think that that prototype would have been interesting to watch them too. Someone that can play make a little bit, create his own shot a little bit, but also can knock down more than enough shots to make it worthwhile to kick the ball to him, and so you know, I'm really excited about the kneeing pickup. I actually feel better about that for them than I do about the Strus one. But I understand that Strews fits a need for them, particularly when he's playing at his best.
So we'll see how it goes.
It's gonna be very interesting because they have more options for that fifth die now, but they sill. I still feel like they need one more.
Yep.
They still don't have a great wing defender. They have two great interior defenders, and maybe Mobile, you know, becomes that perimeter lockdown guy. And we've seen Strews go after fours in the playoffs during these heat runs, and maybe that's a configuration that works for them. But it's still kind of finding that right two way piece which is going to be interesting for them.
And continues to Yeah, he keeps, keeps shooting a little bit of a rhythm, and in the playoff series against the next he looked a little bit more comfortable after Game two. I think it was after he starts to you know, came off the bench for a.
Part of that.
But I, uh, they need a little bit more and I think, you know, there's something about the way they lost in that Knick series where it's like they're not running it back necessarily, but getting Max Struce and even getting Niang, who's very, very involved and physical. But I think it's just someone that's more willing to give up his body and more willing to kind of get into the mix. I don't know that they added even with strus like playing for a team like the I don't think they added like enough toughness, particularly in the post considering the way they got pissed around in that Nick series. So I'm curious, But you're right, like I think it would have been a little bit too reactionary to just scrap that core or scrap a piece of that core when they had the second best net rating in the league and it's basically the second straight year where they've been right at the top net rating wise. They certainly were for most of last year too, So I don't think you can give up on that. But who knows, and Donovan Mitchell is there, maybe in some ways they are going to become a repeat of what we saw with the Jazz, where on paper on the regular season and the metrics show that they are consistently one of the best teams. But they just don't have it come playoff time. They just don't have the adjustments, they just don't have the depth. They're the roster, so we'll see it'll be an interesting year for them.
Let's run through a few more than I have just quickly here, just because I think they're interesting, and these are. This one's really interesting because it's a one for one swap, so we can compare it directly to how this lineup performed last season. There's a couple of those, but Memphis jaw Bain, Jared Jackson, Junior Steven Adams, and then Marcus Smart taking over the Dylan Brooks spot. That's gonna be interesting because that's been a good lineup for Memphis the last couple of seasons, and it will be very interesting to see how Smart works out there. Where the Celtics Derek White, Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, Al Horford, Chris STAPs Perzingis. I have to imagine that'll be their opening Nights starting lineup, and then I'll give you one more. The Lakers can roll out Austin Reeves, gave Vincent, Torrian Prince, Lebron James n a d I'd expect to see that group play a healthy amount, especially in the postseason. Any which one of those kind of perks your ears up the most?
I mean, I think it.
Maybe it doesn't have to be, but I think the one I would pick, and also is most interesting because of just the suspension part is John like the the Memphis lineup where we're not going to see it for a while, right, yeah, you know, And that's without even taking into account the jaw often is injured and other guys in that lineup are injured, but it also gives them like a more stabilizing force than you know.
How would I put this?
I don't It's not a hot take or anything, but but Dylan Brooks was flimsy from the standpoint of he is too.
He's all over the place.
Yeah.
Period, So that's even better way of putting it than saying Flimsay he was a wild card.
Yeah, the highs are high, but the lows are low.
Right, and he and he tapped into a lot of that.
I think some of it was intentional, just as far as the decision making or the sorts of moments where you're kind of like you want guys to play with an edge but you can't reel it in with him sometimes and he played into the villain role. But it's like, okay, but when it's hurting you on the court, or when you're like when you're kind of baiting the opponent by by saying, you know, by essentially calling out Lebron and doing other things over the course of a series, there's a time and a place, and I trust Marcus Smart's ability to know the time and the place more to be better about it. There's a certain aspect of leadership that he brings to Dylan Brooks. Maybe he was a leader, but you know, very clearly from the way that stuff was handled with Memphis, the report that they weren't bringing him back, and that they told him that it exit interviews, that it leaked. There were all sorts of suggestions that they did not view him as a leader if he was no knock on him, but it certainly wasn't enough to kind of to hold Jaw accountable, you know, or not even accountable, but just to kind of make sure that he was doing what he needed to do off the court.
And who knows.
Again, I'm not sure that leadership means that because you're leading the team that that stuff can't happen. Steven Adams was said to have made mention of some of this stuff directly, maybe not to Jaw specifically, but to the team about behavior and off court behavior and focus. So it's no knock if Marcus Smart can't reel that in, but I think there's a better chance of some of it being more in line, both between his presence and the fact that Jaw has now been dinged for this twice.
But we're gonna have to see.
It's a team that just having Brandon Clark back and having Steven Adams back alone would have been interesting enough, but adding Marcus Smart into that mix, someone who at his best has been a better shooter than Dylan Brooks, but has also struggled with his shooting relative to recent years the last couple of years. I think he's also generally speaking, a more consistent defender than Dylan Brooks's. Dylan Brooks was never defensive player of the Year or anything like that, or in that conversation, really he was, you know, an all defensive team pick, but not really as consistently at the level that Marcus Smart was. So I'm very interested to see it. I'm very interested to see there being like another closer to full time ball handler. Marcus Smart is such a good pickup for them, just because John's going to miss all that time. Anyway, they obviously lost Tyas Jones. He's going to be one of the most important players in the league this season for all sorts of reasons, and I think, depending on how effective he is there, this could be one of the veteran pieces that they're missing to kind of make the jump. I still feel like they might need one more shooter, you know, and maybe even one more guy to replace Tias Jones, just for when Marcus Smart is not on the floor went while they're missing Job. He's gonna be a fascinating fit. And you're, like you said, it's one to one, so it's very interesting to see.
It's gonna be very interesting. I yeah, Memphis, man, that's just gonna be a strange season to say see play out, especially with John missing so much time. Up front. You mentioned Brandon Clark. I'm curious when Brandon Clark is gonna be healthy to play because he had that achilles started pretty late in the season. But someone who was obviously very forgotten come playoff time, that I think is gonna make a big difference for them. Hopefully he's healthy and ready to go when he comes back and not having kind of a prolonged effect from that achilles injury. I just want to talk about the Lakers real quick. I just think Gabe Vincent is like the perfect point guard to put next to Lebron because he can handle the ball, but he doesn't need to handle the ball like he's effective as a pick and roll operator, but he can catch and shoot and space the floor. Although his three point percentage last year, I mean the heat shooters thing, it's just hard to know what's real and what's not. Because he shot so well in the playoffs regular season, he was kind of right at league average, I think, probably below league average, I think around thirty three percent.
So those guys were all two to three points lower than what I thought that Like, when you actually look at their basketball reference pass like they're they're much closer to league average shooters.
But also again the the.
Influence of the playoffs, particularly when you have a long run like that, everybody's value it's it's not to knock them at all, but it's it's a little inflated. Like Also, they also are to a team like the Lakers that might want playoff performance to be better than regular season performance given where they are.
The thing is, he also has, you know, previous seasons where he shot better, So I guess we'll get we'll get more information and find that reality. But Torrian Prince is someone I interesting play for a really good team because he just fits that three and D mold, and yet he's bounced around the league so much. This seems like his best opportunity playing off Lebron and AD and I'm interested to see the a battle that could emerge between him and Hachimura in terms of who takes to the fifth spot and closing lineup, because I do think Vincent and Reeves will be in there just because what they offer on both ends of the floor. And I think Prince versus RUI is gonna be an interesting kind of subplot to the Lakers season because obviously Hachimura got the money. He played really well in the postseason last year. But you want to talk about small sample sizement, We've just never seen that from Hachimura at a consistent level in his career. So that's what I get on.
Yeah, I mean, and to what we were saying about ups and downs and shooting. Torrian Prince was a guy that when they picked him up, it's easy to forget about him just because he's been he's moved around, but also the teams he's been on in some cases have moved so many guys around that he hasn't really had a consistent perch to hang from. He's been really consistent as a shooter his whole career, like right around thirty seven thirty eight, occasionally a little bit higher, maybe one year a little bit lower, but that's the sort of guy that you really look forward to plugging into a group where again, you know, Lebron is going to see two defenders.
At times when he's going to the basket.
Eighty is going to command two defenders just because he's eighty, particularly playing at the level he did last year. So every time we've kind of looked at the Lakers and said what's wrong with them, it's always been a function of whether they had spacing or not, whether it was the Russell Westbrook era, whether it was before they won, you know, their championship, and the idea of like, well, why don't you just add spacing to and then they go out and they have a whole offseason where they dedicate the whole team that you know, KCP and everybody else, what do you know, they win a championship and so that's always been the formula for this team. Austin Reeves developing the way he has, Like you said, he's probably a mainstay at this point, and he should be because of what he can do, drawing fouls, getting to the basket, cutting, shooting. They're going to be really interesting to watch. Like I don't think that they're the favorite. They shouldn't be, but they also can't be. Far from that conversation. Certainly we're talking about who comes out of the West.
I want to wrap up today's show with just a quick question here, and it's simple yet not so simple. We just, you know, we spent all this time to asking about new lineups. Teams are excited to see who's your number one championship contender right now.
It's cheap, but I mean, just looking at what Denver did, I'm certainly curious how Denver looks without Bruce Brown.
That's it, you know, and Jeff Green had big moments for them.
You're you're right, You're totally right.
So I mean, it's really easy to say Christian Brown just kind of slots in.
I mean, he was a rookie man, Like it's not.
He was fantastic. He had brighter moments than we can ever realistically expect from rookies. But you know, is it a side of things that come. It might be, but it might not be consistent. It might not be in an everyday role where he's playing twenty five minutes. So you know, I will still pick them as my top contender, but certainly I've got questions. Certainly we've now seen what the Nuggets can do when they are fully healthy, but they also haven't been fully healthy aside from last year, you know.
In a while.
So you know, Jokic has been extremely healthy for years now and I hope it stays that way.
But it's not a given.
So I'll pick them, but do it, you know, just because more out of a show of respect, because I do want to see how this club looks next season just without a couple key guys off their bench, but also what happens if they're not healthy.
So that would be my top pick. What about yours?
I think I have to go with the Nuggets as well, just at a deference for Joker. It's interesting because I think the Celtics got a tiny bit worse but will still be really good. The Heat it kind of now entirely depends on Damian Lillard. The Lakers, I think got a little bit better. And that was your final four from last year. Is the Paul trade enough for the Warriors, the Paul for Pool swap. It's just hard to pick right now. And I think Jokic is so good and the Yokich Murray two man game is so good that I'm gonna lean on that. But when your a big offseason move is to like re sign Reggie Jackson in your taxpayer mid level, and everyone's like, it's a little concerning. I mean, if you squint and you're like, Okay, Christian Brown takes Bruce Brown's minutes, Peyton Watson takes Christian Brown's minutes, and maybe Zeke Naji takes the Jeff Green minutes. You're counting on a lot of guys now to make a big leap from a position they weren't in last year. I'm not saying they can't do it, and Malone is gonna have to be committed to playing them through some tough times in the regular season, but that was a sneaky they had more depth than in the past. That was a sneaky thin team on the way to the Finals. You know, they relied a lot on Gordon at center in those backup minutes. You needed a vet like Jeff Green, who was steady, who hit some big shots, eat a huge shot in Game five of the Finals, a corner three that you know, helped them win that series. Obviously, so I think I lean Nuggets as well, but it feels wide open again as of right now.
It does, which is cool.
I mean, you brought up the massive caveat which is that we don't know where Damian Lillard is going to land. Any team you would imagine that gets him, you know, save for maybe the Raptors in Michael's case or something like that. Any team that would trade for him is likely going to be a contender already, and if you add him to that, depending on what that team gives up, of course they're going to be in the conversation more firmly. I think the second team I would pick feels a lot like the Nuggets, just from the standpoint of man, when they just have everybody healthy. They've always been in this conversation, and that's the Bucks. No, they haven't done anything wildly flashy. I think they added Malik Beasley this offseason. But you know, just generally speaking, this is a team that you know, they won the title in twenty twenty one. They were this close to making it to the finals in twenty nineteen when the Raptors came back from a two zero deficit to beat them and Kawhi went nuts. They could have won it the season before last, but Middleton missed the whole you know, missed, missed the whole second round, and they still went to seven against the team that eventually went to the finals and looked like they were going to win it, the Celtics.
So last season obviously, don't say it.
I'm saying obviously it's costs for concern that they you know that they that they got dropped for four games to one. Look, I know Giannis was out. That's the reality of it is that any team that loses their best player for two and a half three games in a series, even a one versus an eight, even with the team as solid as Milwaukee, I'm going to expect them to struggle. Now did I would you if you told me that would've picked them to lose four one. No, but I also don't know what that does for the psyche of the team. We don't know exactly how physically right Giannis was once he came back, although he still looked enough of himself to again maybe have it be more competitive than four to one. But essentially, what I'm saying, similar to what I was saying before about the Nuggets, is that this was the first time we got to see them fully healthy. I also don't know whether to expect that anymore. Okay, well, the Bucks have been unhealthy in the playoffs now for two years in a row, and I just think if they're healthy, which is a massive if, it's fair to expect that they could at least be one of the three best contenders. I don't know if they're the second best contender after the Nuggets, but like, it's fair to think that they could be back there. It's fair to think that Yannis at full strength. I think he just had didn't he just have a surgical procedure, a clean out or whatever. It's fair to think that if he's at the he's been at, which is MVP level for the last five years or so, that they should be in that conversation. I don't think that's you know, it's not a.
Hot to No.
I know, the Bucks are absolutely in there. You're couching it too much. They're absolutely in there. I just am nervous about their depth. They brought back to Shrowder for Beasley. I'm looking at the depth chart right now. They're starting five. As long as they have Holliday, Middleton, Johannison Brook, that's such a great place to start. But gosh, it feels like the you know, they lost angles who never really kind of came together for them, which was a bummer. I was excited about that signing me too. The Crowder never really got full time into the rotation in the playoffs, which is strange. It's gonna be an interesting team, but they're gonna be there. I mean, listen, they have.
They have a first time coach too, which is really really interesting.
I Mean, I was just right.
Before the podcast just randomly decided to like I had a brain fart for a minute.
I was like, did who hired Mike.
Putenholzer, you know? And I realized, like he, you know, he's essentially sitting. He's probably gonna just sit this year out, which that's fine, Like I think that sometimes it could be good to have a reset.
You don't have to take a job just to take one.
Doc is also another guy that didn't get hired this cycle after losing the gig with the Sixers. But you know, it's so interesting to just think about. I mean, we've seen it even recently with Nick Nurse taking over the raptor's job and then them winning the title in that first year. But it's hard to do. But also that's a really talented, top end group. Absolutely, they're questions about the depth. To me, the biggest thing that I think is just kind of weird about it. And I thought this last year, even when they got ingles, was just that, okay, you generally want to see a little bit more movement with the roster, you would think, particularly after you take that sort of loss. It's very easy to two years ago or a year ago, I'm sorry, blame Middleton's absence and say, oh, well, if he was healthy, we would have won. Especially when you lose in a seven game series against the team as good as the Celtics. It's a little bit more curious to me when you aren't changing a little bit more about your roster when you lose in five in the first round as a one seed. Obviously Joannis missed a chunk of the series, but it's still like, Okay, you didn't think that there was a little bit more that needed to happen, a little bit more tinkering with the roster, a little bit more that you could bolster. So I was a little thrown off by that, but not enough to where you wouldn't say that they are contenders anymore. Certainly, it would be more surprising than unsurprising if they didn't, you know, make it back as a one seed, a two seeds, something like that.
It will be undoubtedly a fun season when it starts. Unfortunately, still quite some time away. Chris, that is going to do it for today's episode. Before we go, I just want to shout out the Daily Northwestern, My guys at the Daily Northwestern. Yeah, man, some incredible reporting last week. Shout out to them. Just that's important work. I don't even want to qualify it by calling it student journalism, but they're reporting. They're reporting leading to the realistically they're reporting, leading to the firing of Pat fitz Show. I know this is not a college football podcast where I have to shout out.
No, it's a good shout out.
I you know, I have it in a while just because of my book stuff and and obviously the work here. But when I get free time teach grad school journalism there at Northwestern and very proud of the students, not as proud of it, kind of made me happy that I don't root openly or even silently for the football team, because it's just like, damn, y'all are doing all that stuff off the field.
Y'all are one at eleven, come on the other.
Okay, bad bad stuff, but but no, I mean it's it's just, you know, at a time where the industry is just rough.
I mean, you don't need us to you that if you've even.
Lightly followed the shifts and the movement even today, the stuff that Bob Iger saying over at Disney, it's it's a slight slight, slight bright spots at least know that their kids grinding and and doing the work of professionals, professional level work that to kind of find that.
Sort of stuff. So it's very very cool to see that and props those students.
Yeah, and know, and Jim Harbaugh seems like a totally normal guy.
No, I'm not.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna tout the pomp Poms either, because Michigan's had some ugly stuff. It's it's just the reality of sports is that you're not rooting for pure things at any point that we can all stop pretending that we are.
That will do it for today's episode, though, Chris, thank you so much to all our listeners. Will be back soon. Thank you for this
