This is the Crossover and NBA show hosted by Sports Illustrated. It's Chris Mannox and Howard Back. It's a whole new level for you and me. Chris, this relationship, I can subscribe for the best weekly NBA content. These two are capable of. What does that mean? Could be the best duo ever. I'll see how you can beat that. Here they are, Chris Mannox and Howard Back. All right, welcome back, Crossover NBA podcast. Chris Mannox and Howard's back in Howard for the second consecutive week. I am starting this podcast a little travel weird. It was in Las Vegas this past weekend for the Canelo Alvarez fight. A connecting flight in Salt Lake City. It was delayed three hours. I didn't get back into Boston until three thirty in the morning on Monday, so I'm not feeling great right now. I just want you know the ahead of time. So this is you're gonna blame this on travel and not say your afterwork activities in Vegas? Is that when you're trying evinced me in the audience, there's I mean, look, I have been known to pull up twelve to eight gambling night with the best of them when called for, but this time of year, man like, and given my advanced age at this point, like I don't recover like I used to, Like you, I can only go out like that if I have like a thirty six hour window to do nothing the next day, because I need that. Plus I would also need to spend like three hundred to five hundred dollars on the IVY doctor out in Vegas too. Kind of push me in the right direction. And uh, that's not on the table right now. But I mean, I think the revelation and all this is that, uh, you have a twelve hour gambling night somewhere in your routine, which explains why you need seventeen jobs. Like this all makes so much more sense to me. Now, let me tell you something. One of my better gambling nights was it was during the All Star Game in New Orleans. I want to say, like oh eight oh nine something like that, ten twelve years ago, and I wound up at Harrah's at you know, like probably ten o'clock at night the night before or like a Friday before the All Star Game, and there were several NBA players at my crafts table, and everyone was on a heater. I didn't leave that table. I think it was like eleven thirty noon. The next morning it was a bender and a half. And I can tell you those uh, those NBA players did not perform well in the All Star Game. So it wasn't just me that was battling guy. I distinctly recall the guys at my table, and they did not perform up to expectations. But that Harras in New Orleans, that's trouble. Man. Every looks in Vegas as being the spot to go to, but that Harris is is trouble. Anyway, let's dive in how we get a lot to get to today. We're gonna look at some of the struggling teams right now and uh break out the old panic meter to see how concerned we should be about a handful of teams this early in the season before we start. Howard, it has been kind of an ugly week in the NBA. ESPN reported some disturbing behavior from Sons owner Robert Sarver that's now being investigated by the NBA. In Portland, there is an internal investigation of Blazer's president Neil o'sha about how he has allegedly created a hostile work environment within the Blazer organization. Let's start with with Phoenix Howard, your reaction to the ESPN story and the fallout, which has included some pretty strong denials from Sarver from members of the organization. UM, you know they are not taking this story lying down. I'll say that for him at this point, they're not. And they went on the full encounter it's act trying to attack the credibility and the rigorousness of the reporter Baxter Homes of ESPN, And you know you and I have known Baxter for a long time. Um, he spent a year on this. He spoke to seventy uh current and former employees of the Sons. ESPN is not running that story without having done an incredibly rigorous, responsible job of fact checking. I have no doubt. So I don't think Robert Sarver and the Son's organization have um a lot of ground to stand on with their counter attack. UM. Yeah, you can say, like, naturally, I'm a reporter, I'm probably going to my initial instinct just through side with the reporter. But listen, they they spent an incredible amount of time and resources on this, clearly, and they talked to a lot of people, including people on the record. If this were anonymous, and Starvers counter attack was to say, this is just a bunch of people smearing me behind the protection of of anonymity, that that would have a little bit more uh substance to it from from that um that that that counterattack. But row Watson's on the record and repeatedly and UM plus dozens and dozens of people who are whether validating or or verifying his recollections or their own. There's way too much here to just say that, oh, this is somebody's agenda, this is somebody trying. Now, this is seventy people. You can't you can't squirm out of this. Now. Granted, this is not and we should say right off the top, this is not Donald Sterling. Where there was a tape like the smoking gun, was as clear as as could possibly be, and it gave Adam Silver in the n B a UM kind of a clear path to to resolution and removing Donald Sterling. This is less clear. But I'll quote my friend Zach Low who said this on his podcast a few days ago. This isn't he said, she said, or he said he said this as he said they said, And I thought that was a really important point to make. It's they and it's a lot of these so, um, you know, the NBA will be the ultimate arbiter. The the law firm they hired to do this investigation will be the ultimate arbiter. I would assume they will seek out and find a lot of the same voices that Baxter Homes of ESPN spoke to. And if that's the case, I assume that that law firm is going to hear the same stories and the report is going to uh, you know, validate what was in the ESPN report. And if that's the case, we're we're I mean, we're leaping several steps forward here, Chris. But if the n b A in its law firm that it's hired, can validate, confirm even of what's in that story, I don't see how Robert Sarver can possibly remain as majority owner of the Phoenix Suns. But we're a law play from that. See That's where I mean my mind immediately goes there, right because I think there's going to be some kind of penalty leveled at Robert Sarver. I don't know what it is. Short of expulsion. Short of expulsion, I mean, look, expulsion, it's a big step to take right. It did too. All the things Robert Sarvers being accused of are reprehensible. I find it disgusting, despicable. Um But in in the absence of audio or video, I don't know how you can force a guy to sell the team. Now, internally in Phoenix, there could be a revolution of sorts amongst the minority owners that are there that that could You could see something like that in uprising internally in Phoenix. But the idea that the league could force Robert Sarver to sell his team, based on what we've read, it doesn't quite line up for you. Remember something Mark Cubans said in the aftermath of the Donald Sterling expulsion. Cuban said, it was a slippery slope to start, you know, doing this. I think Cuban probably knew that there were Robert Sarver's out there that you know, owners have their owners behaving badly, quite frankly in the NBA. So I just I can't really see us maybe unless something new comes out, I can't see a scenario where Robert Sarver is forced to sell the team by the NBA. Because one thing we've learned from this, Howard, is that Starv's gonna fight back like Sterling didn't really fight back, like he kind of knew he was cornered on on that when when when that came out? Largely because the audio was out there, But Sarver has been pushing back every step of the way, and I can't imagine that he'd go quietly into the night. So my guess at this point, that's all it is, really is a guest. Because the NBA is going to go through the motions of this investigation, is that we're gonna see a substantial either financial penalty, loss of draft picks. I don't know how it will work, but I think we'll see something leveled at Saber that comes short of being forced to sell his team. Well, let's not forget a really critical element of that Donald Sterling saga several years ago, which is that not only was there a smoking gun, the recording of Donald Sterling saying these horrific things which helped expedite the entire process of removing him because there was no ambiguity. There was no he said, she said, There were no anonymous sources. It was a tape. It was clear as day and it did enable the league to move forward in a very uh judicious manner and an expedious matter. But the other element, let's not forget, was that the players themselves, the Clippers players, Lebron James, several others, immediately called for Donald Sterling, not didn't, didn't immediately come from to be out. They basically said there's no place for him in this league, which of course is essentially the same as saying he had to go. So when you had a movement of players at that time, saying Donald Sterling cannot be a franchise owner in this league having said the things he said that we have all now heard, that made it that much more imperative for the league to act um quickly and definitively in this case. Chris, Okay, we don't have the smoking gun. We don't have the recording, at least any of us know of right now. But a report's gonna come, a report from this law firm will come. And if that report definitively confirms as I say, even of what's in the ESPN story, much less and by the way it could they could find more. They might talk to witnesses and employees who ESPN didn't even speak to. Along the way, they might find more people, more people may come out of the woodwork because this is now out there. What that report will do, when it's there for everybody to read, is make it that much more definitive that and I'm assuming something here, So we'll see if the allegations hold up. But it could say, yes, Robert Sarver said these things, Robert Sarver did these other things, and here are this many more people who we the law firm, have spoken to confirming all this. And when it's there in black and white in a report that was commissioned by the NBA, it will be that much more difficult for Sarver to refute or for anybody to ignore. And at that time, if the players themselves, starting with the Sons, but certainly the Players Association players across the league, if they say this is definitive. This is not anonymous sources. This is a law firm that was commissioned to do an investigation, and the result of that investigation is yes, Robert Sarver said and did a bunch of horrible things, racist things, sexist things that can't be ignored. Then, whether it's initiated by the League office, or whether it's initiated by the players themselves. I cannot imagine any outcome other than a process to say he's got to go. And maybe that is a formal process to remove Robert Sarver. I have to believe that the more likely scenario is that, again, if all of these things are confirmed, the pressure is is so immense that he exits on his own that he simply sells his majority share, whether it's to his uh, his his fellow owners, the the minority owners of the Sons, whether it's to a new investor. But it doesn't have to be removal. It could just simply be that the pressure becomes so immense and the embarrassment and the spectacle of it so uh so great that Starver moving on or selling his part part of the team is the only option. And I would also just say this, um, even if he doesn't want to go. Uh. If all again, if all these things are confirmed by the law firm, how do the Son's function? How many players are going to want to go there? How many agents are gonna want to deal with them? Uh, community groups, fans? The backlash will be from all sides. And I think the only thing that's preventing that right now is well, it's an ESPN report and it is mostly anonymous sources. It will it will take on a different level of of of feeling official, of the different different level of legitimacy UM when it's a league commissioned law firm that has conducted an investigation UM with with perhaps much more latitude to UH to ferret out all the details. When that happens, it's gonna be a lot harder for them, for the Sons and for Server to avoid. I agree. I think that the number of on the record people the NBA can get and its investigation will matter. And the pressure Robert Sarver feels in the aftermath of this investigation, the pressure on his ability to function, as you said, as the majority owner, it could become challenging and overwhelming, and ultimately he may decide to sell the team. I just I just don't see the NBA doing to Starve or what they did to Sterling. Sterling it was cutting dry. It's like you're out. I don't see that happening based on the information that we have right now. All right, let's move to Portland Howard, where the Blazers have their own internal issues to deal with. Over the weekend, the team confirmed that there is an internal investigation going on into Blazers general manager Neil al shay Uh. The investigation centers around old Shay allegedly creating a hostile work environment. And I've been told that for the last roughly week or so, investigators have been calling in members of the organization for interviews. They have been calling former staffers and coaches that work for that team to discuss how they were treated by old Shay in the past. Um, you know, I've got some thoughts on this myself, but give me your your reaction to this investigation into Neil o'sha. The difficulty here, Chris, is that we don't really have any details yet. There's just a broad description of hostile work environment. We don't know what that entails. We don't know how many people that entails, we don't know what kind of behavior it allegedly entails. And so, UM, I'm gonna I'm gonna withhold you know, any any There's nothing to jumb I mean, I would say with all judgment, there's nothing to judge. I don't know what we're I don't know what we're judging yet. Um, I assume we will hear more in the days and weeks to come. Um, or maybe by the time we hear those details, Uh, maybe he'll already be out if it's if it's that bad, and if their internal investigation, uh you know, you know, discovers that that things are are are that extreme. Um. I had not heard any hint of anything like this in prior years. I had never gotten any sense that there was any trouble in Portland's up until now. The most pressure on Neil Olsha with regard to his job with the Blazers was whether or not he'd done enough to you know, get Damian Lillard a championship level supporting cast. As a basketball matter, he was already I think under fire in some quarters. Obviously, the Chauncey Billips higher was was you know, a notable um flashpoint as well a couple of months ago. But in terms of the way Neil Olsha runs the team, I've never heard any hint of this until uh, until this surfaced a few days ago. So, UM, listen, I will say this, and this is not to minimize whatever Neil she is allegedly done or said as a basketball matter. This is this is brutal. Um. Like they have enough problems as it is right now. Obviously the way that the team has started the season, the fact that Damian Lillard, while he has pledged over and over again, he wants to finish his career in Portland. We also had a recent yeah who report that he did take a meeting that may or may not have been a recruiting meeting with Lebron James and Anthony Davis in l a UM some some time ago. Um, there's already just a lot of of smoke in the air and a lot of concern um. And you know about where this franchise is headed. Um. And having to remove the head of basketball ops early in the season in which your team is already struggling, even if it's for all the right reasons, still that's just that much more tumult. It does not speak well to the stability of the Trailblazers. So here's my my takeaway from And I've talked to people within that organization that are and this has been something they've been keenly aware of. For like I said, over a week now, if the the investigators are going to find evidence of a hostile work environment, um, you know Neil, He's he's got us abrasive style, let's call it that. At times, he can and has been known to yell at people internally, and that has certainly rubbed people the wrong way. I would also point out that when you start calling people that have been fired by Neil shape, you're likely to get people talking like, you know, the the entire coaching staff was broomed out less than a year ago, and you start calling them, They're not going to have any allegiance to Nil or to have any desire to protect him. So I'm sure they're talking to these investigators and telling some things that don't make Neil look all that good. My question is that you know, if they find evidence of a hostile work environment, does it rise to the level of termination? And I think I do think from talking to people that there are people internally higher ups in Portland that are trying to push Neil out and to do it in a way where they don't have to pay off the remainder of his contract. Like if you are fi own to have created a hostile work environment, that is grounds for firing for cause, and you can fire Neil without paying whatever's left on his contract. I think that's a variable in all this. But Neil's you know, Niel's a yeah, look he's he's a he's a cursor. He's a hell yeah at you. Like. Jason Quick from The Athletic wrote a good story about this where he kind of described his own interactions with Neil, where there's been some feisty back and forth between them. So, you know, that's why I think they're gonna find evidence of what they're looking for. The question to me is, does Jody Allen and the people that are in power there above Neil o'sha do they see that as grounds for firing him or do they just tell Neil, you know, you gotta cool it, you know, well, you know, to change your ways, change your tactics, and will move on from there. It doesn't help Neil's case that, yeah, the Blazers aren't very good and they're in kind of this weird place right now where you are. They gonna build around the Lillard McCollum backcourt. They're gonna trade it and blow it up. You know. I do think there are people within the organization that would like to see Neil gone just to bring somebody in that you know, would start over reboot this whole thing because Neil is Neil is very loyal. This again pivots at the basketball, but Neil is very loyal to the guys he's drafted. That's why it's unlikely we see a CJ. McCollum trade anytime soon. Damian Lillard of course, uh, largely off the table right now in Portland. I don't I don't know how this plays out for Neil shape, but I can tell you that if they're looking for evidence of a hostile work environment, they're going to find it. It just again, it just depends on what. You know, what these what these stories that are being told rise to and if they, in the minds of the power brokers above Neil and Portland, rise to a level where it warrants him being terminated. Yeah, and listen again, As a basketball matter, we don't, you know, we we know so little about what the nature of the hostile work environment is or what his alleged offenses would be, So it's hard to to judge. But as a basketball matter, um, you know, maybe this is a good time for them to pivot. Maybe it is time for change. You know, he's been there, what a decade, um two thousand, twelve. You had nine years, and so you know, that's a pretty good long run for a gm R team president. His obviously signature move was drafting Dame in the first place. There were some good teams along the way. They've had their moments, they've had their injury troubles. Um. I don't think that you know, just because they've had some they've fallen short. I don't think Neil o'sha has done a bad job. It's really hard to get that second star. It's really hard to build in a smaller market where you're not really a candidate for for top free agents. That's not the place that Anthony Davis was going to force a trade to. It's not the place that Jimmy Butler was gonna go, or that Lebron James was gonna go, or Kevin Durrett was gonna go. You gotta do it differently. But he did draft Dame load with the six overall pick the year that they drafted him, and he has done a pretty good job. I think of putting in putting talent around him. We can pick apart various draft picks, free agent signs, whatever. You can do that with almost every GM in the league. So on balance, I don't think it's it's it's it's a you know, he hasn't done a terrible job. He isn't. I'm not sure he's done a spectacular job, but like he's done the job. Um. And maybe they do need a new voice or a new vision anyway as a basketball matter, and maybe this is the impetus for the Blazers to make that change. It could work out for the positive for them for all we know, although hiring a new GM in the middle of an ongoing season in which your star player was already the subject of much speculation is not ideal to say the least. Um. I'll be very curious to see how long this investigation takes and what it finds. I am going to assume that this is not garden variety yelling at people every organization, not every organization. You and I both come across plenty of people christ in this business, gms and coaches and team presidents and others who it's it's sports, it's in, it's it's competitive, it's demanding, and that comes out in a variety of ways. It wouldn't be the first time that somebody yelled at somebody or dropped an F bomb, like that's just sports. But there are lines and there are lines you don't cross. Did he cross any of those lines? And I think I think he probably has, Like I know what you're saying that, you know, there's yelling that goes on in every organization and I'm not but yeah, but it's I think he probably crossed some lines there. There are people that you know, honestly feared him, but like, you know, crossing him was it was something that they thought of, you know, they didn't want to, you know, cross the guy, and that's uh, that's not a good work environment necessarily. Again, I don't know if that rises to the level of him being forced out of his job, but again, I do think they're gonna find some evidence of that one quick thing on Portland's if again we're putting this going the cart way before the horse. But if Neil Sha winds up getting forced out, do not be surprised to hear Danny Ainge's name connected to that job that. I don't know if Danny would take it, um, but I would expect Danny Gage to be in the mix for a vacancy in Portland's. It's uh, it's one of the city has been connected to over the years because of his history there. So I would expect to see that, uh, that name come up in the coming weeks and months if this goes south for all sha in all right, let's run through some of the teams that are struggling right now. I want to break up the panic meter here, Howard and uh get your thoughts on where we are as far as these teams that are struggling. I want to start with the Lakers, and for contact, let's go one to ten. Here. One means everything is fine. It's the you know, don't worry about it, no big deal. This team is gonna get through it. Ten five alarm fire right now within that organization, make a trade, make a signing, make a coaching change, do whatever. Let's start. Let's start with the Lakers. Um, who are down Lebron James right now, Russell Westbrook is playing portally, the bench isn't great, the defense has been mediocre. Where is your panic level right now? With the Los Angeles Lakers? So I was trying to think on a panic scale, what is the right panics? What is the emblem of the panic scale? And the best I could come up with is the this is fine dog sitting in the room ablaze around him. So I'm gonna put these all on a scale of one to ten. This is fine dogs, um, and we're starting with the Lakers. Sorry, with the Lakers. Yeah. So this is tough because I can't build up to it. So I'm just kind of come out um blazing, for lack of a better term. This is ten. This is ten, This is I've got ten dogs across my screen, all surrounded by fire, and they think they're fine. They're not. I don't normally, you know, you know me, I'm not exactly prone to hyperbole, but Chris, this is bad. This is really bad. Um. Let's real quick review there, five and five. But two of the winds are against the Rocket, who are basically, you know, in the second year of a full on tank, and of their losses, two of them are against the Thunder, who are also in a full on tank. Um, there's nothing really two seize on right now that that suggests anything positive. Uh, Lebron is injured, so that's a caveat for some of their struggles, but also Lebron is injured. That's bad. Lebron is during thirties seven in another month and a half and he's got These are starting to add up every season now it's it's these lingering injuries. This is abdominal right. Abdominals are tough. This is not some This is not just a turned ankle. Abdominals are tough. And abdominal injury. You know, early it was early my my Laquor beat writing career. An abdominal injury nearly derailed Shack's career before the great Alex mckechney who came to work for them and got shocked, straightened out and got his abdominal all all back in order. Um, I don't know how long that abdominable might might linger, but in the past these things for for players have been troublesome. So there's that. Um. The best case scenario for the laguers before the season was, well, if Lebron's out for a little while, at least you've got an elite playmaker and offense creator in Westbrook. Well, Westbrook is a disaster right now. Their team defense is awful, Like I just you know, Anthony Davis is not enough. You know, we were now right back to is Anthony Davis really as good as we thought he was? Before you know, the Pelicans years, he's criticized for not being able to carry a team far enough. Is he really a superstar if he can't do that? Well, now he's he's it's him again without Lebron. He's got Westbrook and they're they're not better than the some of their parts. They're worse than the some of their parts. I don't. I know, they've got a bunch of guys hurt, and maybe once all those guys come back, things even out. But for the time being, I mean, this is a team that at a glance, you're you have to start wondering, you know, are we looking at the second straight year of them trying to make it out of the play in that's where they are right now. Yeah, I'm gonna go with a seven and a half on the panic meter right now, and that's largely because I mean every time I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt of those last two and a half panic points because Lebron is so great and still great and oftentimes finds a way to work through issues within the team. But the issues we're seeing right now within the Lakers are not only not surprising because most of them were predicted by basketball people, including writers before the start of the season. But I don't know how they're fixable. Like Russell Westbrook is not going to become a high level shooter. The defense with these players is probably not going to be significantly better. It's not going to morph into a top ten level defense anytime soon. And to go back to Westbrook, that did you hear what he said after the Blazer's loss where he went one for thirteen with nine turnovers. So I need to play harder. I'm like, you're gonna play harder? Like, no, harder is the right word for Russell Westbrook. I think it's played smarter. I mean that lost Oklahoma City last week. I mean, first of all, another blown lead to a thunder team that you know, Shake Guilds. Alexander is great, don't get me wrong, but that's that's not a very good team right now. Um Westbrook comes down and commits a turnover, which yeah, part for the course, and then with Carmelo Anthony cooking on the other side of the floor, he tosses up a pull up three that would have I think tied the game or given them a lead. Like the decision making, like this is all decision make this stun to do with playing hard, This has to do with playing smarter, and you know, Westbrook just is kind of what he is like there. There's gonna be games and he's had them already this season where he plays great and he can help you win, but they're gonna be equal, if not more games, especially when he's playing in an environment that's unfamiliar and he's playing or being asked a player role that's not his best, where he is going to struggle and I just don't see it. I don't see how it's going to to come together with this team. I just don't see it. Look, I mean, let's say, let you know, fast forward to January, and let's say Trevor Reas is now healthy and in the rotation, and Taylor Horton Tucker is healthy in the rotation, Kendrick Nunn is healthy and in the rotation, Lebron James is back and they're at full strength. What kind of hole are they trying to dig out of at that moment um or whenever it is that Lebron comes back, because the hole is gonna get deeper without Lebron. Gart I guarantee you that much. We have not seen anything from Westbrook and Anthony Davis and the rest of the guys who around them, And by the way, like Anthony Davis now has is I think day to day with a thumb injury too. That's also by the way, by the way, let let's also point out that you know, Horton Tucker aresa like good players, but this is not Jamal Murray coming back the Nuggets series. These are these are rotational pieces that will certainly provide some value, but they're not game changers, at least not for this team. No, they'll be better when they have all these bodies available. They might be especially defensively. They should be better with some of these guys, although again a reason for all of his defensive prowess is up there in years. Um, if there's a scenario where everybody is healthy, can the Lakers still figure out a formula for winning at a high level. Well, they have enough time for Westbrook and Lebron to mesh and all the things that we're talking about before the season. Yeah, possibly, But what kind of hole will they have dug for themselves in the meantime? Is and is it too big of a hole for Lebron to dig them out? Of because they're really bad without him, like really bad, and and Westbrook is not getting any younger numbers when Lebron's off the floor are bad, like the on office are just terrible. Yeah, I mean, honestly, it's hard to look at this Laker team right now and not say that things look pretty freaking bleak and that Lebron can't get back soon enough. But again, it's an abdominal you cannot mess around with that that could could severely crimp the rest of his career if they don't take care of it right, if he were to rush it back. Um, but my guess is it's it's not days, it's it's weeks at minimum. And I don't know how the Lakers are gonna weather this without him. Yeah, it's gonna be tough. Um, the Westbrook thing, just look it. Oftentimes, Howard, we and the media are wrong. We don't see the big picture and things turn out to be different than what we expect. But nobody believed Russell Westbrook was gonna fit with that team, and three weeks into the season he has not fit with that team. And I'm watching, buddy, He'll make shots in Sacramento. Um. Other deals potentially would have been available. Even keeping that same team together would have been a viable option. Now, let's Caruso could have come back with that group. I just I don't I don't see it. I don't see how the Lakers get back onto a championship path with this current mix. All right, Milwaukee, the Bucks, Howard, have had big injury issues right Like, Chris Middleton's been out, Brook Lopez has been These are key players. J honest has been healthy, but the guys around him have struggled. Where is your concern right now with the Milwaukee Bucks? So on a scale of one to ten, this is fine dogs and fire. I got three dogs out of ten for the Bucks. I know there four and six the defending champs, and that's not what you want to see in the start of your title defense. But Chris Middleton has missed four games, Connaughton has missed four games, Brook Lopez has been out for nine of their ten games so far as we record this, Drew Holiday has missed six of ten games. They don't have DiVincenzo back yet, They've got way too much of the other Onto de Cumpo playing the nasis is is playing a lot of minutes to too onto. The comp on the floor is not the great thing for Milwaukee. No, no, it's not the way you want to approach this. I mean, it's nice that the Nassis is there and he can do some things for you, but if you're playing him a ton of minutes, something has gone wrong. Jordan's no wara, like they're just plugging in all these other guys. It's like, you look at the rotation, you look at the box scoring a daily basis, this is not the Bucks team that won the championship. There's got you know, guys are out. I think at full strength, they're probably fine. Um, the East has gotten better. We've talked about this a lot. And if you look at their their losses, I mean, they lost to they're only really bad losses to Minnesota. They lost to Miami, who are legit contender in the East. They lost the Spurs, who you know, they're they're not great, but they're they're tough. Utah, you know, best record in the league last year. The Nicks are tough. Washington is tough now. So it's not as if they're just you know, getting obliterated by by bad teams. It's it's been up and down. They haven't been great. I think this is a case of it's mostly because they don't have their ideal rotation together because of injuries and that when things when guys get healthy, I think they're fine. Um there's there's nothing you look at immediately and say this is alarming. It's not like Janice is in some terrible slump. Um. It's not like they're they're they've got in fighting or anything else. I'm not overly concerned with the Bucks right now, not neither mine. I'm gonna go to um, yeah, to you have you're gonna be concerned somewhat by some of the things you're seeing. But like they're getting killed on the defensive glass right now. A big reason for that is the abs of Lopez, who is one of the great box out guys in the NBA. It's not a stat that's kept, I don't think, but Lopez is a tremendous box out or which enables other players to get rebounds. Middleton Holiday, these are key players with this team, and there's always a championship hangover that goes into a team as well. I still think this Milwaukee team is more like the one that blitz Brooklyn in the season opener than the one we've seen for most of the last couple of weeks. When they get their guys back, they're going to be just fryed. Uh. Let's squaut West Portland's the Blazers. They beat the Lakers over the weekend. Damian Lillard six for fourteen from three point range after having an abysmal shooting start. Your concerned level with the Portland Trailblazers. So if we were talking about this like a week ago, it might be higher. It's still high. I got seven. This is fine dogs and fire out of ten and maybe the extra. Maybe I went from six to seven because of the neil o'sha investigation and just the added um you know, you know, you know, image of dysfunction and disarray that that brings. Lillard goes for the other night for nineteen from the field, six or fourteen, as you mentioned from three. Maybe that is the first signs of him coming out of this early season slump. If Dame is fine, the Blazers are fine. I mean, are they gonna contend for a Western Conference title? I still don't think they are. But um, their biggest issue early on is just that Dame wasn't Dame and if if his he's getting his legs under him or his rhythm back, whatever it is. I'm not overly concerned. But that's a big if. That's one good shooting game, and his numbers overall are still pretty bad over the last week, and so it's a seven. It's a seven because bad start, Dame seeming mysteriously out of it on the court, um, and then the new little shaping on top of it. So seven out of ten, what about you? Yeah, I'm gonna go seven out of ten as well. I'm not worried at all about Damian Little rediscovering a shooting stroke. I mean, slumps happened in the NBA, and I do think the new ball has something to do with it with some of these players. Is not an excuse the guys should be using, but I do think adjusting to a new basketball is a real thing and there's something there. Plus, Dame had, you know, a different type of off season. He um, you know, got married. He was part of the Olympics, so maybe he wasn't doing the exact same things that he was doing in previous offseason. So there's a lot of variables that can lead to a slow start, but this is one of the great offensive players in the NBA. He is going to be just fine. Uh. The defense has been better. I think they're right in the middle of the pack in the NBA, but they've been really inconsistent. And I was in Portland or in Philadelphia, should say, last Monday watching the Blazer defense get carved up by the likes of George Yang and Seth Curry and Tyrese Maxie and that's not gonna get it done. Like, this team needs to be top ten, top fifteen defensively in the league to make any kind of run in this Western Conference, probably inside the top ten to make any kind of run. I just don't see it out of them yet. So I still think they're right around a seven. And if they're hovering around five hundred in mid December early January, we are going to be revisiting the conversation about do we shake this team up? All right? Back to the Eastern Conference, the Boston Celtics. They had a good road trip, power went two and three, two and one. They beat Miami and the second night of a back to back, which was remarkable. Jayson Tatum in the lost Dallas finally got it going, but they have been inconsistent defensively, rotations have been kind of all over the place. Your level of concern for the Celtics, I think I've been as up and down on my concern level for the Celtics as the Celtics have been. Um. At this stage, I'm saying, it's a six out of ten. Six, This is fine, dogs sitting in fire. It would have been higher. It would have been higher. Um, if not for the route of Miami. I thought that was like a signature win. It happened after that player's only meeting where you know, they had to talk about Marcus Smart's critique and they got to having a players only meeting seven games into the season. Let's just say no, no, never. Um. But if if the player here's how how this is how we frame players only meetings. If the players only meeting is followed by a winning streak, it was a great players only meeting. It's really great they had this airing out session. If they're still losing a bunch of games, they clearly all hate each other and they should be broken up as soon as humanly possible. I thought the Miami win, while followed by that lost to Dallas. I mean, look, Luca hits a incredible shot. But um, I thought there were signs of improved play and improved team play, which was I think their their biggest problem the bad start. I think Marcus aren't hit it right on the head, they weren't sharing the ball enough. Um, they were playing better as a team. I thought in the Miami route, was you know, um emblematic of that. I the reason I actually do pause and might add another dog on the fire is that now jalen Is Brown is out for what a couple of weeks at least with a hamstring. Yeah. Um, that's a problem. Unless maybe, and let me just throw this out there, Chris and you can have at it. Maybe they're better with one star and supporting cast than two guys trying to figure out the rhythm together. Because Jalen and Jason together have not exactly brought out the best in each other. Um have not not this season, but years past they have. I mean they went to a conference finals together and Tatum's rookie year. Um, I think they actually compliment each other really well, like I agree they should, and they haven't so much early this season. I think a lot of that though is on Tatum and his struggle to adjust to the newfound physicality of the NBA. I mean, he spent a lot of time complaining to referees um not getting the free throw line. I think it's more about Tatum than the Tatum and Brown chemistry. And you gotta remember to Brown coming off that Tende quarantine for COVID, even though we had that great game against New York in the opener, I think there's been some adjustment there as well. My Panic was at an eight prior to the start of this three game road trip. It's dipped down though, to a five. I mean, Tatum is gonna come back in a week, ten days, whatever it is. And what I like about the Celtics now is that email U Doka has finally started trusting his young guys. We are seeing minutes from Aaron N. Smith, We are seeing minutes for Romeo Langford, We are seeing minutes from Peyton Pritchard. Like these guys need to play, Like I don't know what level they can play at, but all three of them played well in the summer League. All three of them played well in the preseason. Like, you gotta give these guys opportunities to go out there and playmayadoga on this road trip. UH has done that. I also like going back to that Miami game, is that we saw what this team can be defensively. I have banged the drum that this Celtics team should be a top five defensive team in the NBA. They have got the horses to be great defensively. They hadn't shown it up until the first couple of games of this road trip. They did in that swing through Florida, and I think that is more what the Celtics are or can be than what we've seen in the first couple of months a couple of weeks should say of the season. So as long as the defense continues to trend in a positive direction, I think the Celtics once Brown gets back, will as well. Yeah no, look, I think, um, there's all the reason the world to believe that this team can can figure it out and get settled. Um. Jalen Brown's injury now is is a concern for the short term and hamstrings can linger again. Another injury that that can linger, and so that could be an ongoing concern and they're not gonna be at their best until they have everybody out there and firing and you know, an and and sync with each other. Um, But yeah, I'm not overly concerned about the Celtics of this stage. Now, finally, Pelicans, I think I know where you're gonna go with this, Howard, but I'll give you the floor first, Pelicans one win on the season, Zion Williamson still out brandon ingram in and out. They don't really do anything well at this point. What's your level of concern about New Orleans one and nine. I was typing wins and losses because I wanted to like see who these teams have beaten, who they lost. I actually had two shortened wins to win for them. I had to delete the s. That's not a good sign. No, that their one win is against Minnesota, who's not great either. Now in a free fall Timberwolves after a you know a little bit of a surprising start, four straight losses. Now they're gonna go into a West Coast road swing, Like that's gonna be bad. So yeah, that's not a quality win. I mean, look, tough schedule right like here, their losses Philly, tough team, Chicago, hot start in Minnesota, Atlanta Conference finalist, Sacramento. They lost to twice. The Kings are are are plucky this season. The Knicks are good this season. That's the Phoenix, Suns, the Warriors. It's been a tough schedule and they haven't had Zion, but still one and nine like you're a disaster, this is there are not enough this is fine dogs sitting in fire to actually describe this. So it is. It's a full ten. If I had, if I could cut and paste a few more dogs, I would. This is an utter disaster, Chris Um for two obvious reasons. One, this was the season they really needed to show some progress and show Zion that they could actually build a functional, high level or at least playoff caliber team. And as like you'd never ruin it's it's it's like always dangerous ruling out anything on November eight. But this team is not making the playoffs, Chris. They're just not Um. And Zion has hurt again, and as we've discussed in previous podcasts, I'm very concerned with the number of lower extremity injuries that have already piled up to Zion Young early in his career and the toll that his body is taking from his style of play and potentially his weight and his explosiveness. It's it's a little scary. Um, I'm not sure about his future. I'm not sure about the Pelicans future. I'm not sure about his future with the Pelicans. Um, this is you know what do they have in at firehouses? A five alarm fire? Um? This is? This is ten alarms and lots of dogs sitting in a lot of flames. Yeah, I'm with you at ten out of ten for the Pelicans, um, and less so about the long term. I don't like to think too far ahead, especially with guys on rookie contracts, but for this season, they are almost reaching that point where it's going to be too late to dig themselves out of a hole. Now you might say it's on like ten eleven games into the season, but whenever Zion Williamson comes back, he's not coming back full throttle. He will be on a significant minutes restriction early on while he a works his way back into playing shape, which he is not in based on some of the pictures we've seen at the moment and be uh just getting that foot healthy that the Pelicans do not want a recurrence of that foot injury. Foot injuries are terrifying for big men, and Zion has had a couple of them now during his career, So I you know, we're now kind of at that point where the Pelicans, not that they would tank, but like it's like, what are you gonna do here? Like you've you've kind of lost the season already, and um, you know, maybe this season is all about evalue in the future of Zion and Brandon Ingram. I've had plenty of people say to me they don't think those two guys are well matched for each other in the long term. Ten and a ten for me. Howard on the New Orleans Pelicans, Well, and how about this, just you know, Brandon Ingram has been an All Star in this league and as a really talented player. Jonnas Valan shot, this is a good player. DeVante Graham's a solid shooters score, Nikki Alexander Walker, Josh Harton. It falls off quickly, but there's some decent talent on this team. Toms Saturnski's, you know, an accomplished veteran in this league. I think the question now with the question, yeah, they should be a little bit better, I guess, but remember Ingram has been in out as well, so yeah, he's missed four. Yeah, he's missed four games and that's tough. Well, Like the question I have, and I don't really know the answer to it is, I mean Zion, I don't want say he's unique, because that's taking it too far, but he's a different type of player, Like what are the best fits around him? Like do you surround him with a whole bunch of shooters like the Magic did with Dwight Howard during the prime of his career? Do you do what the Calves did and the Heat did with Lebron one floor space or another lead guard that he played alongside. I still don't think we've figured out what the success formula is for Zion. He's great, and I'm you know, not really here for the job. Mored better, you know, sort of sort of argument. Yet, I mean, maybe we'll get there. John Mord's great, but let's give this a little bit more time to play out. But you gotta figure out what's the best roster around a player with his skill set And I'm not sure we know that yet. Well, we don't because he's only played games in two plus seasons. He's barely played more than one season worth of games in over two seasons. Um and figuring out the best way to build around Zion Williamson is certainly hampered by the fact that you just don't have him on the court often enough, consistently enough to to figure that out. Um, And he is unique. He is a different kind of talent, and it does take time with a young star to um, for them to grow into their leadership role on the court and for a team to find the right pieces around them and figure out the best formula. It's just it's it's almost impossible if the guy can't stay on the court. So, um, it's it's it's a mess. I mean, can you imagine, like the Pelicans kind of you know, below the radar because they're in New Orleans, to small market, not a an NBA stronghold by any stretch. If this we're going on in l A, New York, Chicago, a couple other places. Um, it's all we'd be talking about. Yeah. Yeah, the benefit from that, I guess one of the one of the benefits of playing in a small market. Howard, good stuff, man, We'll do it again next week. I always plays with my friend