The Ministry of Sustainability and the Environment has plans to create 55,000 new and upgraded jobs over the next 10 years. These plans need people but what are the skills and knowledge needed? Will passion and pay finally meet for future roles in sustainability? Jaime Ho speaks to two young guests who have already dipped their toes into this green future - Benedict Tan who majored in Environmental Studies at Yale-NUS and S Sandiyashini, a first year Life Sciences and Management student at NUS.
The following is a C and a podcast. This is the climate conversations, and I'm Jamie who as nations move more aggressively to mitigate and adapt to the impacts of climate change. We also have to work out plans on how the entire economies will shift. Singapore, for instance, aims to be a carbon trading hub in the Financial Centre for Green Finance in Asia. Our electric vehicle infrastructure will transform. Then there's a whole slew of sustainability work in decarbonisation, waste recycling, urban farming, water treatment and energy efficiency, and all these plans will need people and talent and skills. So the Ministry of Sustainability and the Environment has said it plans to create 4000 new and upgraded jobs in the next year and 55000 over the next 10 years. These are big numbers, but who are the people with these new skills and knowledge will fill these so-called green jobs of the future? What kind of education and training will they need? Will passion and pay finally meet for future roles in sustainability? Today, we speak to two young people who have already dipped their toes into this green future. First, it's Benedict Khan, who majored in environmental studies at Yale and us. He graduated last year and now works as a program coordinator and portfolio associate at Hatch, a venture capital company that invests in aquaculture and alternative seafood. We also have Sandy Sini, a First-Year life sciences and management student at the National University of Singapore. Brendan Sadiya. Welcome.
Hi, Jamie. Very good to be on the podcast. Thanks for having us.
No worries. Let me jump into the first question for both of you. Sustainability and environment. My field of study that aren't really that new. Maybe some parts of it are newer than other parts of it, but give us a sense a little bit about how you got into where you studying for use and what you did. Ben, let me start with you, Ben. First, give us a little sense of how you came into this whole field of environment. I mean, we get a sense of that in our pockets. And the year after that
at Newlands College with the liberal arts program, we get to fill out what we want to do in the first two years. And honestly, I hadn't selected a major yet, but I always liked the environment and actually went into Yale and us thinking I would do global studies or PPE or something more employable. But then I took the intro to its environmental studies upon the recommendation of a friend, and I realized all of it made sense. All of it aligned with how I've been feeling growing up, doing some conservation things here and there and really enjoying the environment, and I decided to stick with it.
Sandy, as for me, I think the interest really sparked from school from a very young age. I was very into science in general, and I was given the opportunity to do science research studies that were very in line with sustainability or water purification, and I sparked my interest there for environmental studies in general, just studying about environmental sustainability, because that's one of the hot topics in Singapore, too. I want to bring it on to my university studies, but at the same time, I didn't want to restrict myself to just studying about the environment. I wanted to study more about the environment and differing stakeholders affecting the environment like human. And that's why I chose to study life sciences in NYC right now.
I'm told that you also have a passion for biochemistry and thinking of specializing in molecular biology.
Yeah, I think it's very in line with the environment, too, because when we are saying about the environment, it's important to know the impact of organisms that's acting on the environment. It's not just about climate change, it is also about cleanliness. There are many scientific aspects to it. It's not just about coming up with policies, but you also need to know the science and the facts behind it. And for that, I think microbiology and molecular biology is extremely important in understanding the rationale behind a few of the policies that we have in Singapore
and been, you know, yielding us. It's fairly new. It's been around for about 10 years. But you see being introduced to environmental studies by a friend and then getting introduced to that. I've spoken to people from you and you as I read a book of essays from some of them. It's very interesting as well. Give me the sense of feeling that the students they have as they go through Yale and us, the kind of advocacy, the kind of passions that they have. Does that build in very early on in the curriculum? As you get there, you feel the vibe amongst fellow students. Is it very common? Is it as strong this vibe of environmental protection, environmental integrity, that kind of thing?
Definitely. These things are spoken about in class environmental studies and then the courses, the modules we take on after that. But 50 percent of the learning also takes place outside of class. There are many, many students with their own organizations or movements on initiatives even outside of campus, and it's very hot to not think about them or not talk about them. And it's so easy in the classroom, especially with environmental studies, mostly environmental studies, majors where you just like, have a coffee with them, have a meal with them, like that. Communal environment is so easy to just reach out across levels, across disciplines, and then you kind of build those relationships
and use ideas looking at your background. Very interesting. You are at any age scholar. Have you thought about how you want to bring your training over the next couple of years into any year into the public policy sphere, especially in the exact thing that you are studying now in the hope to study as well?
They can really project what's going to happen for years
down, nobody aspire
to. That's more to learn. Definitely all the experiences that I've had. It's more than what I wanted, but it's not enough yet. I still need to study more about the science behind environmental related topics, and at the same time, I'm also taking up a second major in management. It will be good if I can also pick up a few skills in terms of policies and policymaking. I'm hoping to learn more about it in uni. At the same time, I feel that as a new scholar for any in general, for me in Ministry of Sustainability and Environment. For now, one thing that I can surely give is the passion and the willingness to put in the effort on behalf of the younger generation to do something about the environment, about climate change. About what?
Security burdens graduated quite recently, and he's working for quite an interesting company now, so we'll use him to maybe tell us a little bit and maybe it'll give you some idea as to how the next couple of years can progress for you as well. Ben, tell us how you chanced upon the thing that interested you fish farms and aquaculture and how did that come about when you were doing environmental studies? And how was it that you transitioned from there into the job that you have now? And explain the job as well?
Try to make this quick.
No, no. You don't have to
go back to one of the classes we did as part of a common curriculum in compulsory classes. It was on global impacts of climate change, and one of it was impacts on ecological spheres. There was this paper on how the global fishing fleet hotspots really mapped on to where the largest points of biodiversity were, where the most fish were, where the most marine life was, which is quite intuitive. So I thought, OK, I love the ocean. I have to participate in an Expedition 2011 with some international youth. I felt like, OK, if you want to make the most impact, that's where international policy lies. But then I read a bit more and realized those establishments can move slowly. So I took an internship at Conservation International and I realized that some of the really good work is actually development. Work and conservation and development work are very intertwined. You need to uproot your life. You need to go somewhere for 20 years to make meaningful work. If not, it can be misconstrued and can be misapplied. I did another internship my last summer in sustainability consulting, but I felt that that was too general for me and the profession, or the practice in Singapore was still too nascent. I decided I wanted to do a more industry specific work, and I read this book called For Fish by Paul Green Book. Essentially, how the four major types of fish do you think about it? Bear, salmon, tuna and one more that can I remember in how we're running out of these fish, but an alternative is sustainable production of fish or seafood or sustainable aquaculture. I recall what Prof. Once told me, and he said that agriculture and conservation are two sides of the same coin because you need land to either conserve or grow food. Same with the ocean. I feel no doubt that industry is fraught with a lot of issues. That's where my company comes in. But I also feel that conservation and aquaculture two sides of the same coin.
One of the things that you mentioned earlier on as well was how the hands-on part of your school was a very important part of it. Sandia as you look forward to your next couple of years to do, you look forward to that to the internships and things that will come. I know you just started your first year, but it is a little bit loading on you, but do you appreciate that as well? Is there something they look forward to as part of your next couple of years?
Definitely. One of the thing that I consider even before the scholarship itself is the fact that it's important is in any employee itself to just be extremely on the ground. And that's really one of the key aspects that any employee emphasizes on being operational, doing on the ground work and learning about the people's perspectives, about issues such as anything. There's environmental related cleanliness and things like that. It's important to gain their insights before actually making decisions up there. And for me, that is extremely important in something that I really want to pursue, and that's exactly why I chose this scholarship for myself. Definitely, in my university life, there will be tons of internship opportunities, and I'm very willing to learn more about, you know, both the operational work and also let related work because that's very much in line with my major. And I think a balance of this to be something I'm looking forward to in the next four years.
I'm going to change tack just a little bit, but again, to get your sense of these things because I don't often get young Singaporeans on this podcast and it's really nice to talk to you guys, but I wanted to get a sense from you. One still in school, one having just come out of school. And it's something that Ben, you mentioned about how sometimes you know, in the real world, when you see where this international policy international actually can happen a bit more slowly than people would like, people want to see in the national action a bit faster as you studied and as you are studying and you see that happening. How do you feel? I mean, you are young, you want action to be taken. You see things happening that aren't great in terms of climate change, in terms of sustainability. And you are studying about this at the same time as this sort of frustration build up. Sometimes you feel that you have a view on why things move faster and as you are young and you are ambitious as well. Does that then therefore translate into your thinking? As you know, I want to do this for the rest of my life. I want this to be my vocation. And did you ever feel frustrated during your school years been?
I definitely did. Yeah. I mean, I just graduated for a year, but also a bit idealistic. Well, that's a good thing, which is its own kind of wisdom, but that translate that to my participation in the starting of S.G. climate, really seeing that we can. No longer just think of ourselves as consumers, especially in Singapore, that this idea of civil society or citizenship needs to come to the fore. If you are thinking about the Future Economies Council, how many of those are all the industries and how much they are or could contribute to carbon emissions in the future and really on a weighing scale, thinking of as a think falls away like more voices come up 2000 people on Hong Lim. But that's quite a strong signal to say that, OK, we think Singapore can do a bit better in this regard. So that's where it comes out, but also the realization upon starting work, upon walking with a lot of people that the money needs to come from somewhere at the end of the day, no matter what you do, and making those two things balance out
and sandy again, just to remind our listeners, you've just gotten to university, but you know, we were talking off air, you're from R.I when you're in school. Therefore, I suppose that's where you also grew, as you said, the passion for this. Did you ever feel the need? You know, I want to take action now as well. And did you feel you were able to at that stage of your education?
I agree with what Ben said. I kind of hide the fact that I was a relatively frustrated about how slow things were progressing. And definitely as a student, I wasn't as knowledgeable enough to know what exactly was happening behind these organizations that were involved in making change. But I was definitely frustrated along with all my classmates as we were learning about them. We had so many questions. Why was this not done yet? Yes. What's stopping them, you know? Definitely. They are economical points to and take note of where does the money come from? That is pretty important to consider. We demanded more explanations. That was the perspective of a student. Obviously, I will never see that change has never happened. Yes, it is slow, but it's promising. And that was what I believed in to kind of comfort my frustration. And at the same time, to also tell myself that yes, you are frustrated. Let's use that frustration to fuel your passion instead, because of the fact that I have hope, because of the fact that this change, I think I've developed hope for better change in the future, even though it's slow as long as there is room for improvement. I'm willing to be part of it.
And Ben, you wanted to jump in, so give you.
I just wanted to add that in the process of organising a free climate rally, I was in touch of volunteers and I was so surprised that there were so many people at the JSI level at a secondary school, just like jumping out to be a volunteer. And when I was in jersey, I felt I could barely read a book and I had no idea all these things are going on. But I was very encouraged by what was like one generation removed from you and how willing they were and not afraid of the idea of protest or rallying and very, very forthcoming.
I'm going to ask a very admittedly Singaporean question. Students in university and you have come out and you choose your career and your paths in the future. And you chose this path. Environmental studies, or at least, you know, sustainability. Did you ever think, can I get a job? Is this going to lead to a job? And is this a field that you want to go to out of pure passion? Or did you actually think actually this is a growing industry as well? Or is it a mix of both? How much are you driven by the sort of nuts and bolts of career decisions? I passionately make it simple.
My mom was asking that question for three or four years.
What does she ask exactly?
She was like, Oh, I can get a job, and I'm like, Why didn't you go to business school?
And what do you see as
I work out? But then at the back, I was frantically like looking for internship, thinking once this and that. I searched on LinkedIn Aquaculture and two things came up, which is high end and Hatch Hutchison early stage global venture capital that invests in sustainable agriculture and alternative seafood. I definitely had the question popped up. It caused me a lot of anxiety, a lot of worry. To look back now and tell people in environmental relief that courses of study and say, like, Oh, I'll work out, it is easy for me to say. But yeah, I do think in every sector, whatever it is, construction, fintech, medicine, there's always going to be a sustainability environment, really. That angle and that will only expand in the future is just about where that overlap and passion lies. Because when you're working crazy hours, that's what's kept me pushing me forward.
So it's slightly more fortunate, maybe in a way that you do have the NEA scholarship, but tell us again how you got there and again, how much of it was therefore a passion. Did you have parents sort of whispering in your ear as well, like Ben did?
I'm lucky enough. My parents dinner really whispered in my ear, or you should do medicine. You know, considering the school that I came from, I think it was a very normal thing to do. I put that pressure from my friends. I never had that pressure. My parents were very simple. They told me to just follow whatever I was passionate about, and the job would come as long as you are passionate and talented. And that few simple as that. And I think job security, even though it seems very daunting in the environmental sector, is pretty daunting and pretty much all the sectors I would see because we are essentially reaching that limit where, you know, they are lesser, lesser jobs because most of them are being taken or occupied by the population company. So I wouldn't say that job security was one of the disadvantages for joining or considering who joined the environmental sector. One thing that my parents were asking me about is would you get board in the environmental sector? Because I think there is a concern throughout all the jobs be a doctor or lawyer, or maybe over 10 years time. Would you actually get bored doing that? And I say no, because to me, I was very persistent about the fact that in the environmental sector changes consistent there. So many changes that's happening. Climate change is worsening. There are so many issues. There is just growing out of proportion and you're constantly on the ball. And there was something that I really liked and there was something I was even looking forward to doing with any. So I think due to that and also my previous passion in environmental studies related topics, I was happy enough to actually accept the scholarship, even though with or without the ball, and I would have actually worked towards that sector,
you know, but I had on this podcast a couple of sick three students a couple of weeks ago, and it's really, really interesting talking to them. And obviously they were doing it out of pure passion. And they really did enjoy the way that climate and environmental issues were taught in secondary school and was excellent listening to them sitting where you are now. Therefore, if you see a kid of that same age, 15, 16 years old and you see that they are passionate about this and you want to tell them very honestly what sort of scope is out there in terms of making their passion, their work, especially as environment is concerned, and to convince them that you know it is OK, this is a field that's growing. What kind of advice would you give them in the next couple of years as someone who is now fresh into the workforce?
Job security is always important, and I'm privileged to have my position now, and I'm very thankful for it. I would ask them to ask more questions, ask why the things the way they are like, Why do you think things are moving slowly in the government? Why do you think a section of Coney Island is being set aside for obese? Why do you think the processes for developing certain parts of Singapore and environmental policy? Why do they include Singaporeans? Why do they not? Because that will lead you to maybe more questions, but also some answers and realizations in terms of the environmental sector. I don't want to get too pessimistic. I don't sugarcoat it. It will always be a fantastic, wonderful thing to realize how the natural world sustains us, how we rely on it, how how it gives us so much joy, but also to realize that that direct action in any way. They want to do research, they want to be a nature guide. They want to eat differently. I have a very direct impact and to not lose sight of that.
Do you have any advice on beer for a 15 year or 16 year old who's just as passionate as you are now? What kind of steps would they take in the next few years?
The only advice I would say is dream on continuously. Don't stop there. There's so many things that you can start doing. Obviously, the first step is to ask questions more about whatever issue they are advocating for. As for me, I think one route that I took to actually discover or maybe increase that interest that I have was to do more small research studies in my school. One year research projects, there were environmental related, water related, and that was how I constantly built my interest for it and state relevant with whatever topics those interesting, all I was concerned about. There is what a student can do, or if you are more of someone who advocate strongly about things, maybe you could even start movements internally in schools, interest groups. I think there are so many people, even my friends, my classmates and my schoolmates, everyone took their own path to advocate for any issues, environmental issues or other issues. In fact, by taking this path and these steps, would you only realize whether you're truly interested in it or was it a one off thing? There will be the only advice I will give to these 15 year olds because there is they each when you discover whether you have an interest in something, whether it's a long term or shot in one, or it's something that you actually want to bring it to your career, you know?
And this is maybe a last question for the both of you. One of the fascinating things about getting into environmental studies in climate change and sustainability now as a field of study is that it is so forward looking is all about making change in a way, right? And you're young, and therefore you are in a position to make that kind of change or at least be prepared for it. If I were to say to each of you now, what's the one thing that you really want to see changed in Singapore or the region that you think you can do and you can sort of operationalize? What would that be? And do you think that you are adequately prepared for it both in your education or like you been in your first couple of years of work? Or do you think this is a process that you only just starting? I just wanted to get a sense of the ambitions that you guys have.
One thing that younger people can do is to make a lot more communities across countries, across disciplines to speak to one another because there are so many resources and so many pockets of knowledge that people need to share with each other. So many strategies tactics. I think the big corporates, governments working on initiatives as you are a small startup, how are you going to work with a big corporate and really by forming these coalitions? You are a lot stronger when when you say something versus if you are just one job and then you represent something a lot bigger. That's something that I have been prepared for in your own. You call it in terms of speaking to different people in different disciplines, upbringings, nationalities, cultures, even if it's something I'm not prepared for. The time is of the essence
and sandy you know you have after you graduate high at any as well to look forward to. Is there something that you really feel that, you know, I want to get in there, I'm going to be able to do as soon as I can. Once you start working,
I'm running into research. I'm very interested into doing research work to actually find for various solutions, actually at the top of my head. I have a lot of things that I want to do. I haven't really narrowed down to one. I actually want to be part of a research that could possibly find for alternative fuel sources and consider biodiesel as a possible fuel source because we are looking to solar energy as a country. But there's always this question Why do we not consider biodiesel? I've seen them using biodiesel for planes. Why don't we bring it down to a lower level like for cars? I wanted to be part of such researchers because I've done a very small research project in school. I also wanted to be part of researchers to fight this knotting diseases such as dengue disease, a thank you virus, Zika virus or even anything to address the spread of viruses. I think I'm very interested in trying to mitigate there in terms of the public health sector. I'm very into research and I'm really interested to do that with any Sandia.
And Ben, thank you so much. And thanks for listening to the climate conversations. Stay up to date on seniors coverage of climate change on sea in Asia. You can also find this and other senior podcasts on our website and on iTunes and Spotify. The team behind his podcast, our Chris, Pete and Robert Insulin and they're in low. And I'm Jamie, who until next week.