Writer-director Michael Russell Gunn joins the Chuck Toddcast to discuss The Brink of War, his feature debut about the 1986 Reykjavík Summit, hitting theaters August 14th with Jeff Daniels as Reagan, Jared Harris as Gorbachev, and J.K. Simmons as George Shultz. The film's origin story is its own remarkable piece of history: Gunn interviewed Shultz before his death in 2021, and Shultz handed him the declassified summit transcripts that became the script — the first scene between Reagan and Gorbachev is verbatim from that record. Gunn's argument for why this story matters right now is simple and pointed: these were two men with every reason to hate each other who sat in a room and tried to build a better world, at a moment when Americans have gotten very good at yelling and very bad at talking. He walks Chuck through what most people get wrong about Reykjavík — that Gorbachev was far younger than memory suggests, with no personal recollection of World War II (he brought the last WWII-era Soviet general with him to Iceland), that adversaries are always more politically divided internally than we perceive from the outside, and that the summit is simultaneously remembered as a triumph and a failure because a deal to eliminate every nuclear weapon on earth collapsed over a single word. Gunn notes that Americans instinctively read everything through game theory — winners and losers — while the Soviets understood the talks as one point on a longer arc, which is why Gorbachev rushed to a press conference to declare the whole thing a success.

The conversation also works as a genuinely useful look inside how difficult political history gets made in Hollywood. Gunn explains that he assembled the actors and script first and only then went to a studio, that Simmons was hunting for a real challenge and nailed Shultz's accent on the first take, and that Daniels prepared by looping an hour of Reagan interviews through his headphones while biking around Chelsea, Michigan. He talks about the nervousness surrounding the idea of putting the two leaders alone in a room, the enormous goodwill Reagan carried into Reykjavík, and the fact that the whole world genuinely waited on that weekend with bated breath. Gunn is candid about the projects that didn't happen (he wanted to make a film about the Nunn-Lugar amendment and couldn't get it off the ground), the tradeoffs between film and limited series as formats, and why audiences have proven far hungrier for true history than the industry assumes. He and Chuck close on career advice — how Gunn broke in, why you have to "prove it" before anyone green-lights your dream project, and his observation that the things you don't get can end up mattering just as much as the things you do. And for anyone tempted to write off Reykjavík as a failure: the summit paved the way for the INF Treaty a year later, and the world's nuclear arsenals have since come down roughly 90%.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Michael Russell Gunn (The Brink of War) joins the Chuck ToddCast

02:30 How much time should elapse before telling a historical story?

04:45 How strong was Gorbachev viewed at the time of the summits?

05:30 We were saved by junior people/officers during the Cold War

06:00 We came very close to nuclear armageddon

07:30 Gorbachev is remembered as older than he actually was

08:30 Gorbachev didn’t have any memory of World War 2

09:30 Gorbachev brought last WW2 era general to Reykjavik

11:15 Adversaries are more politically divided than we perceive them

12:00 Reykjavik is considered both a success and a failure

12:30 There was a deal to get rid of every nuke, one word tanked it

13:00 Gorbachev rushed to a press conference to declare conference “great”

13:45 Reagan and Gorbachev built a relationship and some trust

14:15 This was one of the greatest diplomatic achievements in history

15:00 Americans view everything in a game theory context, winners & losers

15:30 Soviets viewed talks as one point in an arc

16:00 Transcripts of the meeting helped in creating the movie

18:00 Wanted to create a movie about the Nunn-Lugar amendment, but couldn’t

19:30 Visual of Reagan sitting across from Gorbachev was powerful

20:45 First scene between Reagan and Gorbachev was verbatim from transcript

22:30 There was something profound about their willingness to engage

24:15 There was nervousness about having them alone in a room

25:45 Reagan carried immense goodwill from Americans into Reykjavik

27:45 The whole world was waiting/waiting the summit with bated breath

28:30 How close were we to getting rid of nuclear weapons?

29:30 We did end up reducing nuclear arsenals by 90%

30:00 How did Jeff Daniels prepare to play Reagan?

31:45 Difficulty getting mainstream actors to participate in political history?

32:30 How’d you pull off getting a difficult topic approved and made?

33:15 Got the actors and script first, then went to the studio

34:00 JK Simmons was looking for a real challenge

35:15 George Shultz is an unsung hero of American history

36:00 JK Simmons nailed Shultz's accent on the first take

37:45 You’re given more breadth in film, but not more time to produce it

40:30 What is the better format to tell a story? Movie, limited series etc

43:00 Audiences have proven to be hungry for true history stories

45:15 What’s your dream project?

46:30 Need to “prove it” in order to get your dream project approved

49:15 Career advice? How did you break in and succeed in the business?

50:45 Things you don’t get can be just as important as what you do get