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Mechele Dickerson, professor at the University of Texas School of Law & author of the new book “The Middle Class New Deal” joins Chuck Todd to make the case that rebuilding the American middle class requires something bold and familiar. Drawing on history, Dickerson explains how the original New Deal didn’t just regulate markets but actively created the first stable American middle class, a reminder that free markets alone don’t guarantee broad prosperity. As today’s economy shifts risk onto workers through independent contracting, weakened unions, and employer-based benefits that no longer fit modern labor markets, she argues that financial security—not wealth—is what most Americans are actually chasing, and it’s essential for economic and democratic stability.

The conversation digs into healthcare, education, and labor power as the pillars of a functioning middle class, from why employer-based health insurance is a historical accident to how government-guaranteed healthcare could actually relieve businesses, and why underused public schools and outdated calendars are weakening the future workforce. Dickerson warns that the erosion of unions, the weaponization of cultural divisions, and rising economic nihilism—especially among younger Americans—mirror dangerous Gilded Age dynamics, where extreme inequality hollowed out democracy. The takeaway is stark but hopeful: upward mobility is deeply American, but without intentional policy choices that put workers and families first, an eroding middle class can become fertile ground for political instability and authoritarianism.

Get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with Quince. Don't wait! Go to https://Quince.com/CHUCK for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too!

Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/chuck. Application times may vary. Rates may vary.

Thank you Wildgrain for sponsoring. Visit http://wildgrain.com/TODDCAST and use the code

Timeline:

00:00 Mechele Dickerson joins the Chuck ToddCast

01:30 Both the left & right can learn from “The Middle Class New Deal”

03:00 What motivated you to put these ideas under a “New Deal” framework

04:00 The New Deal created the first American middle class

05:00 Free market economies don’t automatically create a middle class

06:30 Socialism & interfering with free markets created the middle class

07:00 A stable middle class is critical for stability

07:45 The uber wealthy can only consume so much & don’t drive spending

09:00 People struggling don’t want to be wealthy, just financially secure

10:45 Independent contractors don’t get same benefits as employees

12:15 Retirement security has been shifted from employers to employees

13:45 Big companies with lots of contractors have a ton of political leverage

15:00 Amazon’s delivery providers aren’t set up to have employees

17:00 CEO’s of big companies hate the cost of healthcare

18:30 Business could support a system where they aren’t responsible for healthcare

19:45 Employer based healthcare was born out of World War 2 wage controls

21:00 Government guaranteed health insurance has many upsides

23:15 The debate around government guaranteed education has stalled

24:00 What steps could be taken to make progress in public education?

25:15 In rural areas there is no “school choice”, just home school 

26:00 Public school facilities are underutilized

26:30 Public school calendar revolves around an agrarian calendar

27:45 Without good public education, we’ll have a poor labor force

29:45 Schools should add a voluntary summer trimester 

31:30 Workers will only get equal treatment through collective bargaining

32:00 How do you bring back labor unions?

33:15 Middle & lower class have suffered since labor unions were gutted

34:00 Union culture is merged with corporate culture in Europe

35:15 Race & ethnicity have been used as wedges to advance a class argument

37:15 The entire middle class is suffering economically

39:00 How do you prioritize anti-poverty programs to revive the middle class?

40:00 Upward mobility is wired into the DNA of Americans

41:30 Billionaires aren’t incentivized to create a healthy middle class

42:30 There are parallels between the current moment & the Gilded Age

43:30 Should corporations build communities the way Hershey did?

45:30 Politicians have to help constituents be ok, not just tell them they’re ok

46:00 2016 election of Trump was the white middle class primal scream

47:00 An eroding middle class can drive societies into autocracy
48:00 Trump administration keeps having “let them eat cake” moments

49:00 Middle class support tax cuts for rich, thinking they’ll become rich

49:45 Younger Americans suffer from a sense of economic nihilism

50:30 Bill Clinton’s strength was understanding middle class, he came from it

Mechele Dickerson, professor at the University of Texas School of Law &amp; author of the new book &ldquo;The Middle Class New Deal&rdquo; joins Chuck Todd to make the case that rebuilding the American middle class requires something bold and familiar. Drawing on history, Dickerson explains how the original New Deal didn&rsquo;t just regulate markets but actively created the first stable American middle class, a reminder that free markets alone don&rsquo;t guarantee broad prosperity. As today&rsquo;s economy shifts risk onto workers through independent contracting, weakened unions, and employer-based benefits that no longer fit modern labor markets, she argues that financial security&mdash;not wealth&mdash;is what most Americans are actually chasing, and it&rsquo;s essential for economic and democratic stability.
The conversation digs into healthcare, education, and labor power as the pillars of a functioning middle class, from why employer-based health insurance is a historical accident to how government-guaranteed healthcare could actually relieve businesses, and why underused public schools and outdated calendars are weakening the future workforce. Dickerson warns that the erosion of unions, the weaponization of cultural divisions, and rising economic nihilism&mdash;especially among younger Americans&mdash;mirror dangerous Gilded Age dynamics, where extreme inequality hollowed out democracy. The takeaway is stark but hopeful: upward mobility is deeply American, but without intentional policy choices that put workers and families first, an eroding middle class can become fertile ground for political instability and authoritarianism.
Get your wardrobe sorted and your gift list handled with Quince. Don't wait! Go to<a href="https://quince.com/CHUCK"> https://Quince.com/CHUCK</a> for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada, too!
Protect your family with life insurance from Ethos. Get up to $3 million in coverage in as little as 10 minutes at https://ethos.com/chuck. Application times may vary. Rates may vary.
Thank you Wildgrain for sponsoring. Visit http://wildgrain.com/TODDCAST and use the code
Timeline:
00:00 Mechele Dickerson joins the Chuck ToddCast
01:30 Both the left &amp; right can learn from &ldquo;The Middle Class New Deal&rdquo;
03:00 What motivated you to put these ideas under a &ldquo;New Deal&rdquo; framework
04:00 The New Deal created the first American middle class
05:00 Free market economies don&rsquo;t automatically create a middle class
06:30 Socialism &amp; interfering with free markets created the middle class
07:00 A stable middle class is critical for stability
07:45 The uber wealthy can only consume so much &amp; don&rsquo;t drive spending
09:00 People struggling don&rsquo;t want to be wealthy, just financially secure
10:45 Independent contractors don&rsquo;t get same benefits as employees
12:15 Retirement security has been shifted from employers to employees
13:45 Big companies with lots of contractors have a ton of political leverage
15:00 Amazon&rsquo;s delivery providers aren&rsquo;t set up to have employees
17:00 CEO&rsquo;s of big companies hate the cost of healthcare
18:30 Business could support a system where they aren&rsquo;t responsible for healthcare
19:45 Employer based healthcare was born out of World War 2 wage controls
21:00 Government guaranteed health insurance has many upsides
23:15 The debate around government guaranteed education has stalled
24:00 What steps could be taken to make progress in public education?
25:15 In rural areas there is no &ldquo;school choice&rdquo;, just home school&nbsp;
26:00 Public school facilities are underutilized
26:30 Public school calendar revolves around an agrarian calendar
27:45 Without good public education, we&rsquo;ll have a poor labor force
29:45 Schools should add a voluntary summer trimester&nbsp;
31:30 Workers will only get equal treatment through collective bargaining
32:00 How do you bring back labor unions?
33:15 Middle &amp; lower class have suffered since labor unions were gutted
34:00 Union culture is merged with corporate culture in Europe
35:15 Race &amp; ethnicity have been used as wedges to advance a class argument
37:15 The entire middle class is suffering economically
39:00 How do you prioritize anti-poverty programs to revive the middle class?
40:00 Upward mobility is wired into the DNA of Americans
41:30 Billionaires aren&rsquo;t incentivized to create a healthy middle class
42:30 There are parallels between the current moment &amp; the Gilded Age
43:30 Should corporations build communities the way Hershey did?
45:30 Politicians have to help constituents be ok, not just tell them they&rsquo;re ok
46:00 2016 election of Trump was the white middle class primal scream
47:00 An eroding middle class can drive societies into autocracy 48:00 Trump administration keeps having &ldquo;let them eat cake&rdquo; moments
49:00 Middle class support tax cuts for rich, thinking they&rsquo;ll become rich
49:45 Younger Americans suffer from a sense of economic nihilism
50:30 Bill Clinton&rsquo;s strength was understanding middle class, he came from it

The Chuck ToddCast is back! If you're looking for smart, no-nonsense political conversation, you've come to the right place. The Chuck ToddCast goes beyond the headlines, featuring conversations with top reporters, insiders, and newsmakers from D.C. to the heartland. No scripts, no spin—just real discussions about what’s shaping our politics and why it matters.

The Chuck ToddCast

Interview Only w/ Mechele Dickerson - Does America Need A Middle Class New Deal?

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/eba63d59-0449-450f-9b86-b3d7001354a7/transcript