Ohio Governor Mike DeWine joins the Chuck Toddcast in his final months in office and, freed from ever facing voters again, says exactly what he thinks. The headline is his reversal on capital punishment: DeWine helped write Ohio's death penalty statute as a state senator in 1981 and defended it as attorney general, but in June he called on the legislature to abolish it, saying the moral justification he once had simply no longer exists. He walks Chuck through the practical case — roughly 20 years on average from sentencing to execution, a process that structurally cannot be sped up — and the harder question a Republican has to answer about whether you can be both pro-life and pro-death penalty. That flows into a broader argument about criminal justice that DeWine says has been driven by emotion rather than logic: truly violent offenders are a small percentage of the prison population and those are the people who need to be removed from society, but it's in society's direct self-interest to educate and rehabilitate everyone else. He's equally out of step with his party on immigration, arguing America needs legal immigrants, that we've been educating them and then failing to keep them, that Ohio's economic gains have come from immigrants, and that they're critical to caring for an aging population. On Springfield, DeWine is direct: the Haitian population created real challenges for the community, but they work hard, and it is not in America's interest to deport people who are here and working.

The conversation turns to the economy and the state's political future. DeWine calls the Canada trade war a genuine problem for Ohio — Canada is a major customer — and argues the country needs a real balance between domestic manufacturing and importing rather than a grudge match. On the data center boom reshaping Ohio politics, he says tech companies have an obligation to invest in the communities they move into, notes the technology has improved and no longer requires as much water, and makes the case that nuclear power is what will actually have to underwrite the buildout. He and Chuck get into whether there's a genuine divide between the two factions of the Ohio GOP, and DeWine offers a thoughtful answer about how the nationalization of politics has flattened the local distinctions that once existed inside both parties — and how that nationalization is now in everyone's face every single day. He takes ownership of the COVID shutdown decisions (the buck stopped with him), assesses whether Ohio is genuinely back to purple status with both the governor and Senate races going down to the wire, weighs in on whether the state is in good hands with either Vivek Ramaswamy or Amy Acton — and, of course, whether this is finally Joe Burrow's year.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Governor Mike DeWine joins the Chuck ToddCast

01:15 More comfortable speaking out since not running for office

02:30 Mike’s argument against the death penalty

03:00 It takes 20 years on average from adjudication to execution

03:30 Death penalty process is not able to be sped up

05:00 We need to have legal immigrants admitted to America

06:15 We were educating immigrants, then not having them stay

07:00 Ohio’s economic increases have come from immigrants

07:30 Immigrants are critical to caring for our aging population

08:15 Can you be pro-life and pro-death penalty?

10:00 Putting an emphasis on rehabilitating prisoners

11:15 It’s in the self-interest of society to educate inmates

12:30 Emotion rather than logic & nuance drives the crime debate

13:30 Truly violent criminals are a very small percentage of the population

14:00 Violent criminals are the ones you have to get out of society

15:15 America goes through pro-immigration and anti-immigration phases

16:00 We need people who want to work 

16:30 Haitians in Springfield created challenges, but they work hard

17:30 It’s not in our interest to deport people who are here and working

18:45 Haiti is a major challenge

21:45 Canada trade war is a problem, they’re a major customer for Ohio

23:30 Need a balance between manufacturing here and importing

25:45 Is there a divide in Ohio GOP between the two factions?

28:30 There used to be major distinctions within the parties

29:30 Nationalization of politics has stymied local distinctions within parties

30:30 The nationalization is now in everyone’s face everyday

33:00 Tech companies need to invest in communities where they put data centers

33:45 The data center tech is getting better, don’t have to use as much water

34:45 Need to invest in nuclear power in order to power the data center boom

35:30 Is Ohio in good hands with Ramaswamy or Acton as governor?

37:15 Shutdown decisions during COVID were the governor's choice. Buck stops with him

38:15 Is Ohio back to purple state status?

39:30 The governor and senate races will go down to the wire

40:00 Will this finally be Joe Burrow’s year?