Carolyn Ryan — deputy managing editor of The New York Times — joins the Chuck Toddcast for a candid conversation about the state of American journalism at a moment when the Times has become, as Ryan puts it, one of the last big independent organizations left in news. Ryan makes the case that serious journalism has become almost impossible without the resources the Times can still muster — deep-dive reporting requires enormous time, the best legal team in the business to withstand the threats and lawsuits now routinely aimed at the press, and an ownership structure insulated from market pressure. She's blunt about the difference the Ochs-Sulzberger family makes: newsrooms owned by publicly traded companies inevitably change their behavior to satisfy shareholders, while the family that controls the Times is, in her words, "ride or die" for journalism — a distinction that has never mattered more than it does now, even as she praises the excellent nonprofit newsrooms springing up around the country. Ryan explains how the Times is building regional reporting hubs and investing heavily in places like Texas on the theory that a truly national news organization needs a journalist in every state, why book reporting from stars like Maggie Haberman and Jonathan Swan often lands with more impact and candor than day-to-day breaking news, and how the paper decides which reporters get the coveted book leave that produces those deeper stories.

The conversation gets into the harder editorial questions facing the Times in the Trump era. Ryan discusses the paper's major investment in a more rigorous polling and data operation , its aggressive push into video to reach younger audiences, and the perennial tension over whether there should be a brighter line between the newsroom and the opinion page — a separation the Times has tried to clarify through design changes and by being more transparent about its process. Ryan is thoughtful about one of the thorniest challenges in modern journalism: how to handle the obvious lies told by Trump and other political figures, explaining that to actually call something a "lie" you have to establish intent, that the audience cares enormously about how things are described, and that the language should always be direct and forthright without tipping into hysteria. She closes with a sharp critique of the Pentagon kicking out reporters and banning contact with unauthorized military members — a policy she argues is not only unconstitutional but a direct threat to the journalism that keeps the public informed about how its military actually operates.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Carolyn Ryan joins the Chuck ToddCast

01:45 The NYT is the last big independent organization left in news

02:45 Positives & concerns about the state of media?

04:15 NYT stress importance of fact based reporting

05:00 It’s important for journalists to have access to resources

06:30 Journalists require access to legal resources

07:30 Deep dive journalism requires lots of time & resources

08:00 NYT has the best legal team in the business

09:00 Newsrooms owned by publicly traded companies change behavior

10:30 The Ochz-Sulzberger family is ride or die for journalism

11:30 Great non-profit newsrooms exist around the country

14:00 NYT is trying to build hubs in certain cities & regions

14:30 Book reporting can have greater impact than day-to-day reporting

16:00 What’s the NYT policy regarding book vs day-to-day reporting?

16:45 Haberman/Swan are a singular force in journalism

17:30 Haberman is a scoop machine

18:00 Situation room with Bibi scoop broke in the paper months ago

18:45 Book reporting offers depth and candor that breaking news doesn’t

20:45 How do you decide which reporters can go on book leave?

22:30 NYT has created a much more rigorous polling unit

23:00 Polling and data are huge investments for the Times

24:45 State level polls are a great way to take temperature on issues

26:00 Public opinion shift on Israel has been historically fast

27:30 NYT investing big in video to reach a younger audience

29:30 Journalism has to adapt to new technologies/platforms

32:30 Should there be a brighter line between the NYT & opinion page?

33:15 Times isn’t guided by audience capture or clicks

34:15 Changed the design of the opinion segment to differentiate it

36:00 Is the fact checking process the same for opinion pieces?

38:15 Have to be forthright about the journalism process for the audience

40:00 The impact of having your newsroom centered in NYC?

43:30 It’s important to elevate journalists from across the country

44:30 NYT is investing heavily in reporting in Texas

45:45 You want a national strategy, have a journalist in every state

48:00 Grappling with publishing Trump’s & others obvious lies

49:00 To call something a lie, you have to understand intent

50:30 The audience really cares about how things are described

51:00 Language should be direct & forthright, not hysterical

53:30 Audience is being numbed to the corruption stories

56:15 Unclear how the Dem establishment responds to progressive uprising

57:15 What’s being missed by Pentagon kicking out reporters?

58:00 Banning talking to unauthorized military members is unconstitutional

1:00:00 The importance of access journalism