Acclaimed music biographer Bob Spitz — author of definitive biographies of The Beatles and Led Zeppelin and now The Rolling Stones: The Biography, his five-year deep dive into the world's greatest rock and roll band — joins the Chuck Toddcast for a deeply enjoyable conversation about why the Stones have endured for over six decades and what their longevity says about the state of music itself. Spitz argues that the Stones gave us the foundation of the rock and roll sound and that, in many ways, there is no rock and roll today — modern musicians are producers more than performers, and now in their 80s the Stones are essentially one of the last bands keeping the form alive. He explains why their decision to flirt with politics in the 60s and then back off actually helped them endure, traces their close friendship with The Beatles , and describes Mick and Keith's strange but enduring marriage as the central engine of the band — held together by their shared love of playing live.

The conversation digs into the surprising musical and cultural backstory of how the Stones became the Stones — including the fascinating history of how white British kids embraced the blues more than American kids did. Spitz pays beautiful tribute to drummer Charlie Watts as the heart and soul of the group — a jazz lover who only played rock because it paid the bills and who, along with Ian Stewart, kept the band in line for decades — and discusses the profound effect of losing him on the band's chemistry. He explains why the Stones keep playing well into their 80s, why great guitarists are now a rare commodity with no real innovators emerging, and why Mick has stayed in such great shape. Spitz offers his verdict on the Stones' place in music history — they've come to understand themselves as the greatest rock band, and he agrees — and reveals what's next for him: a book about John Lennon's second act. He closes with a fascinating thought experiment posed by Chuck: if Mick Jagger had been killed and John Lennon had lived, would the trajectories of the two bands have completely switched?

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Bob Spitz (Rolling Stones Biographer) joins the Chuck ToddCast

02:00 How long have you been thinking about writing this biography?

03:15 Keith Richards biography was a phenomenal book, but only Keith’s view

04:30 The Stones longevity as a group makes them more compelling

06:00 The Stones gave us the foundation of the rock and roll sound

07:15 There is no rock and roll today, musicians are producers now

09:15 In their 80’s, the Stones are still keeping rock and roll alive

10:30 The Stones flirted with being political, then backed off

11:15 Their lack of taking a stand actually helped them endure

12:45 The Stones became great friends with the Beatles

14:00 Mick Jagger & Paul McCartney explored joint business ventures

15:30 Without Paul or Mick, both bands may not have been financially viable

16:15 Mick & Keith seemed like a strange marriage, but they made it work

18:15 The music kept the band together, they love to play and perform

19:30 You have to see the Stones in concert to truly appreciate them

20:45 They’ve had countless “Farewell Tours” and always come back

22:00 Mick has kept in great shape, his father was a fitness celebrity

23:30 Fans pitted the Beatles vs. The Stones, but the bands never did

25:30 How did white British kids embrace the blues more than American kids?

26:15 American GI’s left their blues records behind in the UK

27:45 Chuck Berry was a massive influence on the Stones becoming rock

28:30 Charlie Watts was the heart and soul of the band

30:00 Charlie loved jazz, only played rock because it paid the bills

31:30 Charlie and Ian Stewart kept the band in line

32:45 The effect of losing Charlie Watts on the Stones

34:45 They keep playing because it sustains them as humans, not for the money

36:15 Does it bother Keith that everyone sits down when Jagger isn’t performing?

37:30 Great guitarists are a rare commodity these days, no innovators

38:30 Modern music doesn’t emphasize live instrumental performance

40:45 What is the Stones' place in the music universe?

41:15 They’ve come to understand themselves as the greatest rock band

42:15 Secret to the Stones longevity?

44:00 The Stones wouldn’t participate in an extended “Dead & Company” style

44:45 Mick is about to have great grandkids, and has a 30 year old girlfriend

45:15 Next project is a book about John Lennon’s second act

46:30 Beatles had an aversion to talking to the press

47:30 If Jagger had been killed & Lennon lived, would the bands switch trajectories?