Chuck Todd walks through a primary night that should make every elected Republican break out in a cold sweat — Democrats outvoted Republicans by 100,000 votes in Georgia. He argues we now have a fully formed "woke right" — and Trump is leading it. The man who built his political brand on refusing to conform to anyone's mindset has become the most aggressive cancel culture warrior in American politics, ending the careers of Republicans who cross him. The downstream consequences are catastrophic for the GOP: Republicans will now have to dump enormous money into Texas to defend a seat that was supposed to be safe, and Texas joins North Carolina and Ohio as an expensive trio Republicans will struggle to defend. Trump appears either clueless or in denial that he's systematically setting his own party up for massive failure, but Chuck notes a "YOLO caucus" is quietly emerging among Senate Republicans who know they're toast and may act more independently. He closes with a moving tribute to Barney Frank, who died at 86 after 32 years in Congress — the architect of Dodd-Frank, the first openly gay member of Congress, who came out in 1987 at the height of the AIDS crisis and endured Gingrich-era homophobia that he felt punished him beyond what any straight politician would have faced. Frank's parting message to today's Democrats sits at the center of Todd's episode and arguably explains why the party keeps losing winnable elections: "Don't litmus test yourselves into oblivion." 

Then. former Senator, Tennessee Governor, and Education Secretary Lamar Alexander joins the Chuck Toddcast to discuss his new memoir The Education of a Senator and an offer his extraordinary perspective on American politics shaped by five decades in public life — including the surreal experience of being sworn in as governor under emergency circumstances because his predecessor was openly selling pardons for cash and eventually went to prison for selling whiskey licenses. (For listeners absorbing the news of Trump's modern pardon market, the historical echoes are impossible to miss.) Alexander shares stories that capture an entirely different era: how he had to govern in a bipartisan manner from day one to handle the scandal he inherited, how an inquiry surfaced about springing MLK's killer from prison, and how Southern governors of his generation had to drag their states out of the 1950s and into something resembling modernity. Alexander argues that style matters enormously in politics — and reveals that he predicted Trump's presidency years before it happened, because he saw clearly that American politics was being consumed by money and media in ways that disincentivized actual legislating. He walks through his theory of education reform, defends "No Child Left Behind"'s standards-based approach, and offers the wonkish but fascinating idea he once pitched to Reagan: have states and the federal government swap administration of Medicaid and K-12 education.

The conversation broadens into Alexander's diagnosis of what's gone wrong with American politics and the path back. He argues that partisan primaries have created more ideologically extreme candidates than the system can absorb, and that people will always find ways around campaign finance limits — meaning the real fix has to be structural. Alexander offers a remarkable assessment of recent presidents: governor is the best preparation for the presidency, Carter didn't understand Washington when he arrived but Clinton did, and George W. Bush was the most "normal guy" of the modern era. He reflects on his famous healthcare debates with Obama (both gave each other notes afterwards rather than playing for spectacle), shares his concerns about state budgets becoming dangerously reliant on vice taxes, and asks the question no Republican can answer honestly anymore: could you propose raising the gas tax in today's GOP? Alexander is candid about Trump's mixed legacy — the party had become ossified and Trump did break it open, but pardoning the January 6th rioters was a profound error because the peaceful transfer of power is the single most important element of American democracy. He warns that we lack genuine two-party competition right now, that the next Republican nominee needs a fundamentally different temperament than Trump, and that the lack of character and morality in modern politics may be dissuading exactly the kind of people we most need to run. 

Finally, he answers listeners’ questions in the “Ask Chuck” segment.

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Timeline:

(Timestamps may vary based on advertisements)

00:00 Chuck Todd’s introduction

02:30 Georgia Republican senate race headed to runoff

04:00 Democrats outvoted Republicans by 100k votes in Georgia

05:30 Breakdown of primary results from Idaho

06:00 An independent has a better chance to win in Idaho than a Dem

06:30 Brad Little was able to stand up to Trump & survive

07:00 You can’t oppose Trump and be a Republican in good standing

08:00 We now have a “woke right” that Trump is leading

08:45 Trump’s initial appeal was not having to conform to a certain mindset

09:30 Cancel culture is now Trump targeting any Republican who crosses him

10:45 Republicans can’t oppose taxpayer funding for Trump’s ballroom

11:30 Trump is as defensive about Epstein as he was about Russia

12:45 There’s a lot of circumstantial evidence with Trump/Epstein

13:15 Trump angry that Lauren Boebert won’t drop Epstein

14:00 Ken Paxton’s election denialism is what won him Trump’s support

15:15 Cassidy and Cornyn supported 90% of Trump’s agenda…wasn’t enough

15:45 Elected Republicans know that Trump can end their career in a primary

17:00 It’s Trump’s party but he’s setting it up for massive failure

17:45 GOP senators relieved they don’t have to vote for ballroom funding

18:15 There’s a growing YOLO caucus in the Republican senate

19:15 Republicans will have to spend way more money in Texas now

20:00 Cornyn has raised $400m for Republicans

22:15 Trump seems clueless or in denial that the GOP is set up to fail in the fall

23:45 Paxton is so corrupt he belongs nowhere near political power

24:15 Talarico can beat Paxton, but it will be close

25:00 Trump doesn’t usually spend money that doesn’t help Trump

26:30 Republicans are now playing defense…do they concede NC?

28:30 Texas, NC and Ohio become an expensive trio for GOP to defend

29:00 Several other potential Democratic senate pickups

35:00 Barney Frank passes away at 86, served in congress 32 years

37:15 Dodd-Frank has stood the test of time

37:45 Frank was a barrier breaker as first openly gay member of congress

38:15 Frank came out in 1987 at the height of the AIDS crisis

39:30 Republicans led by Gingrich used Frank’s sexuality as a cudgel

40:45 Frank felt overly punished because he was a gay man

43:00 Frank had to work in a place where homophobia was rampant

44:00 Frank’s closing message to Dems - “Don’t litmus test yourselves into oblivion”

45:30 Frank was a larger public figure than he gets credit for

49:00 Sen. Lamar Alexander joins The Chuck ToddCast

50:30 Being a senator vs. being a governor

51:30 There are always 8-10 senators that are better than the rest

52:15 Ted Kennedy was an incredibly effective senator

53:45 The governor he succeeded was selling pardons for cash

55:30 The prior governor eventually went to jail for selling whiskey licenses

57:15 There was an inquiry about springing MLK Jr.’s killer from prison

58:30 Had to work in a bipartisan manner on day 1 to handle the scandal

59:30 Southern governors had to bring southern states out of the 50’s

1:01:45 How would you update & modernize public education?

1:03:15 Mississippi has had great success emphasizing phonics

1:04:00 Schools are best governed community by community

1:04:30 Don’t need a Dept. of Education for higher ed

1:05:00 Federal money should allow money to follow low income students

1:05:45 You need advocacy but not management from Washington

1:06:30 Hard to argue with standards created by “No Child Left Behind”

1:08:00 If you’re entering politics it should be to accomplish something

1:09:00 Goal isn’t necessarily bipartisanship, it’s to get a result

1:10:00 Style matters in politics

1:11:15 Politics has become all money and media - Predicted Trump as president

1:12:00 The digital democracy doesn’t provide incentive for legislating

1:13:30 Money has consumed our politics, how do we fix it?

1:14:45 NC senate race could be the first billion dollar senate race

1:15:15 People always find a way around campaign finance limits

1:17:00 John Kerry was first pres. candidate to spend huge sums of personal $

1:18:45 Why couldn’t John Baker get traction but George Bush did?

1:20:00 Governor is the best job to prepare you for the presidency

1:21:00 Carter didn’t understand D.C. when he got there, Clinton did

1:21:45 George W. Bush was the most “normal guy” out of recent presidents

1:23:30 Debate with Obama over healthcare gave both sides a platform for their views

1:24:45 Didn’t want to over debate Obama for spectacle, give him notes afterwards

1:25:30 Proposed states swapping Medicaid admin for K-12 admin to Reagan

1:26:45 Medicaid was cramping states ability to effectively manage public ed

1:27:15 Vice taxes have been relied on as a way to pad state government budgets

1:28:30 Are we too reliant on vices to fund state budgets?

1:29:45 Could you propose a raise to gas tax in today’s GOP?

1:31:15 Where is the Republican party headed in the post-Trump era?

1:32:00 Partisan primaries created more ideologically extreme candidates

1:34:15 Most national politicians from Tennessee came from eastern TN

1:34:45 Elements of Trumpism were emerging in early 2000’s GOP politics

1:36:45 GOP needs to nominate someone with a different temperament than Trump

1:37:30 Lack of character and morality in modern politics

1:38:30 Politics has caused ruptures in families, might dissuade good people from running

1:40:00 Trump has been both good & bad for the GOP - The party had become ossified

1:41:00 Trump made a major error in pardoning the J6 rioters

1:41:45 The peaceful transfer of power is the most important element of democracy

1:43:00 Washington shouldn’t operate on a pay to play basis

1:44:45 When did you first connect with Doug Bailey?

1:46:45 What advice did you get from Bailey when you were governor?

1:49:00 Purpose of memoir was to explain the goals he had as a public servant

1:50:15 The republic will survive, but we have work to do to make it survive

1:51:30 We suffer from a lack of two party competition 

1:53:15 Ask Chuck

1:53:30 Is it possible the U.S. ever defaults on the national debt?

1:57:45 Is there a scenario where states coordinate gerrymandering reforms?

2:01:15 Are Dems in a no win scenario when it comes to redistricting?

2:06:30 Any chance senators like Cornyn or Cassidy could break ranks?

2:11:15 How can you say don’t fight fire with fire to people whose rights are threatened?