The Chase Down: A Cleveland Cavaliers Pod presented by FuboJustin and Carter provide their thoughts on the Cavs Summer League performance through two games. Breaking down Craig Porter Jr, Jaylon Tyson, Emoni Bates, Luke Travers, Pete Nance and more!
This crowd rises to its me what Carl slamming it? Oh? Carle left wing free ball? Perfect Darling there half block the shot at the rim? How with the left hand and a fowl.
Welcome to Chase Down podcast, part of the Caves Media family. I'm your host, Justin Rowan. The Chase Doown is presented by Fubo, the official streaming partner of the Calves. Watch over three hundred and fifty channels of live sports and TV, including Valley Sports Ohio without cable. There's no cost and no commitment. Try for free at FuboTV dot com Slash Calves. It's summertime and the podcasting is easy. There is nothing better than some stress free Cleveland Cavaliers coops. We are going to be talking Summer League today and of course I couldn't be doing that without my co host, Carter Rodriguez.
Carter, how you doing, Buddy?
I'm doing good, buddy, Betsy. Hit the road for work. Uh you know CDL Champs Call of Duty fans happening in Dallas, Texas this weekend, So a big trip ahead of me and uh, you know, just you and all the rigormarole that comes with hitting the road, you know, doing laundry, getting things packed.
I know I'm awful for that.
I always wait until the very last minute to pack, and I inevitably forget some things while we're getting some plugs in here. You were on our buddy mac Perry's podcast, It's Cavalier talking Summer League as well. I'm going to give a little bit of a blind shout, in a blind recommendation for that, because I'll be honest, this was not a big podcast listening day for me at work. I was catching up after a week off and doing a lot of you know, heads down report stuff at work, and that's that's a time for music. And plus, you know, Sturgil just dropped a new album, so that's become my entire personality for the foreseeable future.
I'm going to give it a shot, just to give you, you know, because I haven't listened to Sturgel yet in my music listing career, and I have some friends who quite like him, and you're one of them, so I will give it. I will give him a shot, maybe on the plane.
So the thing about him is every single album is pretty much a different genre, like it all sounds like him. But this latest one based on some of your you know, music takes, I know, both of us, like the weaker Lands and stuff like that. It is definitely as Bomani Jones likes to call it, some recreational sadness.
So I love some recreational sadness.
I think you'll like this one in particular. But we're not here to talk that. We are barely experts on basketball, forget music. We are here to talk some Summer League. The Calves are one and one so far in Vegas and a lot of fun stuff. You know, the first game did not go so well, but in true kind of Calves summer league form, they are going from one game to the next getting a little bit better, I thought, from a continuity and just.
Going to argue a lot better.
Yeah, dramatically, you know, blowout lost to blowout win is quite the swing. But it just felt like the whole team looked a whole lot better in the second game. But you know, summer league in general is the time where I don't really look at even the score of the game, and I'm just trying to analyze, you know, play by play what's going on with the guys.
So yeah, well I said this on Max pot as well. I will say that first game, the score doesn't matter in summer league, but there is a competitiveness Mendoza line that must be crossed, you know, you have to be above it. And like I think, you know, that first half it was hard to really clean much of anything because it was such a disorganized effort from the boys. So like seeing them respond. I know, again, the final score really doesn't matter that much for the long you know, the long term future of any of these prospects, but it is still nice to see them go, hey, we played sloppy, disorganized basketball in game one. Let's clean it up and do that to another team.
Yeah.
And the less fun and flip side of that is, you know, it probably was the same case against the Bucks, where you know, the score just got so out of hand that it probably looks.
A little easier.
Like I'd like to see, you know, a close, competitive game where where both teams are kind of locked in it at some point over the summer league.
We don't know.
How long, you know, the various casts prospects are going to be playing in the Summer League, but I'd like to see these guys continue to get run. You know, none of them really figure to be major contributors in the rotation next year. So we got you know, two three months until the season kicks off, so let's make the most of it.
Let's see what these guys can do.
Yeah. Absolutely, So it was you know, where do you want to start? Brother?
Do we do?
We want to start with the off seas? You know a little bit of the off season news, the the you know, Darius Scarland shooting down the trade rumor per Chris fiedor that is like, hey, I don't want to be traded. And frankly, I'm glad to hear it, even though that was my assumption in the first place.
Yeah, and that reporting had kind of been out there in the recent weeks too. I know Brian Windhorths was talking about that, not.
So on the record, though, and it was nice to hear him say, like, you know, emphatically, I don't want to be traded.
Yeah, And you know, it's it's a nice reminder. And you know, situations like this always make me kind of do some self reflection, and you know, I think it's a never that when you worry about a player's you know, future with the team, you start to do some emotional distancing. I was certainly guilty of that earlier in the season, where you know, the Cavs got off to a slow start and it didn't look like Donovan was playing as well as we really expected him to, and I was like, you know, as much as I try to not let that stuff impact the analysis, it like dampens my enthusiasm rooting for a player. And you know, I think sometimes we get so caught up in the rumor mill of what's going on around the NBA and whatnot that we start almost bracing for news and adjusting our feelings on players. And you know, like if I was able to do that on the podcast and as a fan for Lebron James, I can do that for just about anybody because I think we you know for sure that that was your hell, that was your battle.
Going through that seventeen eighteen season.
Whereas emotionally distancing myself from Lebron, if I can do that with him, I can do that with just about anybody.
But I think this is just.
Yet another reminder of not to you know, lose hair and go gray as I am over stuff that hasn't yet occurred or stuff it's.
Just not worth it. Humored to maybe.
Happen that you know is usually coming from third and fourth hand sources and not from the people themselves.
Yeah, and there's always a game of telephone that's happening. But like I always say, it's just most important to say, like you know, if like and what, no matter what side of the aisle you're on, Like, I really have found myself going like I'll speculate about future stuff. I'll discuss like you know, factuals and counterfactuals, but like, I'm just not going to get worked up in either direction until they do something I either like or don't like, because and that's the front office, that's what you know, how the you know, whether it be the players, how what coach they hire. Because it's like and I feel like it's funny because I feel like, you know, two three years ago, I was the one that was kind of that was more likely to spiral, and you were you were more you kept me even and I feel like it's been my role to like slap you when you start getting too into these like hypotheticals where I'm like, yeah, it'll be interesting and like, yeah, there are moves that you know you hear rumored whether they're trade signings, et cetera. That you go, I wouldn't like that if they did that. But like, I am at the point now where I'm like, it's just not worth my mental health to be like, oh, well, if Darius does ask out, then they'll do this, this, this, and this is like, well he hasn't asked out. Uh, there was some reporting in either direction, and I'll just wait to hear what he has to say on it, on the on the matter, and he weighed in, and you know that doesn't mean you know, this is a weird league where you know, things happen, where things happen that go in the direct contrast to what people say, Like I'm not saying that there's any certainty here, but that's all the more reason just to kind of evaluate what's in front of you, at least emotionally, at an emotional level. I don't mind going down the rabbit hole on some thought experiments, but like emotion I'm only going to get worked up about what's in front of these two eyes.
It's probably a good idea, you know.
I think one of my favorite sayings is, you know, depression is anxiety when looking backwards in anxiety is depression looking forwards.
Oh that's interesting. I've never heard that one.
And you know, I think just like we're getting used to, you know, a CALVS team that isn't either a lottery team or you know.
Uh no Down Finals attendee.
We're also getting used to, you know, stars that aren't Lebron James or Kyrie Irving. You know, like we we had a very kind of unique build with that contender, and like when Lebron is putting stuff out there, it's very clearly coming from him, where like that doesn't seem to be you know, the em o of the guys on this roster right Like even when people were speculating it, you know, I talked about, you know, that kind of inevitable emotional distancing that I did at the start of the year to protect myself. You had people on National podcast going, you know, Donovan worst kept secret in league. He wants out, He's going to force his way out by the trade deadline. Tim Bontems saying there's a zero percent chance that he's going to sign, And like Donovan, none of that's coming from Donovan. It clearly didn't reflect how he is feeling. But because you know, they're a hot topic. You're going to have people two three degrees of separation away that are going to speculate, and then the game of telephone occurs.
And it's not always nasty either, Like sometimes you will hear you will hear people say with confidence, probably near Donovan, like yeah, he's probably out. But it's like if you don't hear it from him, then you just can't really trust it, you know. It's it has to be pretty dang well sourced by real reporters, not by pundits when this stuff is happening, Like it's not like I ignore reporting, like I am going to take it in, but like, you know, the line between reporter and pundit is increasingly blurry in this sports landscape, and like, and I do think that makes it harder to consume this stuff in a way that's like emotionally balanced. Yeah, as a fan.
Yeah, especially when people do wear multiple hats right, Like as he said, I think the line gets blurred there. And you know, the other thing to kind of take note of is the people in the locker room. Like when you hear the beat guys and stuff talk, they're like this is like they said all season, Donovan is not acting like a player that wants out. He is someone that is completely engaged. You never hear anything about him and Garland having a rift or anything like that, right Like, this is a group that really believes in one another. And I think, you know, whether it's the Mitchell extension, whether it's Garland talking now, like it's kind of again a reflection of hey, like, we understand what we went through in this locker room better than anybody else, right Like, they understand what Garland went through physically and off court with the family issues and things like that. They understand, you know, Mitchell plain hurt at the start and end of the year and everything that Alan went through and all that. Like they understand the context of the season, and you know, it can be frustrating in the moment, and you know, when you're giving your all and you know you're playing through an injury and something's not clicking.
I can understand that.
But you know, nobody knows the people in the locker room better than the people in the locker room. And I think taking anything you hear with some grain of salt is very important.
Yeah, absolutely, man. Either way, I'm just hoping that you know that the Calves continue to make good choices. Darius Donovan, all the Cavs players continue to make logical, rational choices, and it looks like everyone kind of is acting rationally this offseason, you know, like you really haven't seen any weird wild swings out of this organization, and like that was No. I just think there have been years where you go, what are we doing? You know, and like and sometimes that's good and sometimes bad. But like overall, I'm I am for for someone who is you know, paid to talk about the team and thus is pretty invested in having stuff happen to talk about, you know, and as a fan, I like stuff. Transactions are fun. Like I actually am finding myself liking this offseason more and more the more I sit in it.
Yeah, no, I completely agree. And you know, as we wait to see what opportunities kind of manifest on the trade marketing and what the Cavs kind of get involved in, because that is still very much on the horizon and the off season is still very young. Talked about on the last podcast, how you know the lowry market and trade and the don and Mitchell trade happened at the end of August slash beginning of September. Like these things do take time in the off season, but you know, we do know that this team does have a good starting group, and they do have depth. And when we're looking at, okay, well, what kind of moves in the margins can they make? Summer League is a great example of, you know, where that talent may be potentially coming to the main roster down the pipeline, right And I think starting with this group and trying to, you know, understand how much way to give to summer league production is probably the next step here. And I just want to say, kind of off the top, when we talk about this group, the ones that I'm like most interested in keeping an eye on are obviously Jalen Tyson, Amani Baits, Greig Porter Jr. Luke Travers, as well as Pete Nantz, just because all of them are you know, kind of projected to potentially be on the roster or a two way or a main contract. But of that group, the one that I am least interested in is Craig Porter Jr. Because I have seen that guy play NBA minutes. I know that his game translates, I know that he is still recovering from an ankle injury. I think he described himself as eighty five percent back, So I like, I have so little interest in his production because there's just times out there where it's like okay, yeah, yeah, like you're you're a pro.
It is what it is.
Yeah, I think that's fair. I will say real quick to hit on Craig in a weird way, I liked his first game more than a second game, even though he played much better in his second game, because in his first game he went out and shot like four off the dribble threes. You know, he said in during camp in Cleveland before they went to Vegas that off the dribble threes are a big part of his development curve that he needs, you know, his kind of his next big hurdle to clear, and like, the reality is when you have jobs. He's the only one on this cav Summer League team. Actually I'm sorry, Jalen Tyson is too, but for you know, especially given his spot within the team, he's he is the most job security by a country mile on the Summer League squad. And when you're someone with job security, you don't need to go out and play the most polished game for me to be happy with your effort. What I want to see you do is try stuff, work on the things that you're working on at home, and like so I actually really liked that he took those four threes, even though he didn't make any of them, you know, had a couple ugly misses in there. Like I think that's to me, that's doing your job in Summer League. Now, there is a balance to be struck that you can't be selfish because like he is the veteran point guard that has to you know, he's just funny, say because he's a second year guy, but he now is this the veteran point guard that does have to help organize things to get everyone else their reps. So it's like there is a balance. But I really didn't mind him taking the shots even though none of them went in in Game one. Yeah, and it's always tricky when you're dealing with a lower body injury. I think we saw that, you know, consistently with the Kasmine roster throughout last season, right whether it be you know, ankle, hamsterring stuff like that. Just shooting from NBA range when you're playing through some soortness is going to make things a little bit more difficult. But I think you're right, right, Like it's it's a time where you want to see some experimentation. But this isn't a roster that has a veteran point guard like Sharif Cooper, where you know Craig can kind of explore the space coming in off the bench like you you really do need him to kind of be that facilitator, and I thought he did a really good job of that in game two. And I thought they did a balance play making job in general in game two, right, like Amani bits, I love to shot profile in game two, I didn't love it in game one, Like I thought he was pressing just a little bit too much, which can happen in thirty three assists. Part of me, they had thirty three assists in game two. Yeah, like that's crazy for a Summer League game.
The across the board playmaking was really really good, So you know, a little hat tip to Jordan not you know, coaching this group and getting everybody on the same page, because I thought, you know, whether it was a money, whether it's Craig, whether it's Tyson Travers, like everybody, the ball was moving very very well, and they were playing with a lot more structure, so certainly excited to see if that continues. But before we you know, dive into more kind of analysis of these individual guys. I think it's always kind of important to put a qualifier on Summer League because sometimes I think people will look at it and say, Okay, well, what did you work on this offseason, when in reality, Summer League is like the beginning of the summer for a lot of these guys, right like, or at the very least, it's a midway point, like forty percent along the way. It's just a check in to see where they're at. A lot of these guys are playing their first time competitively, you know since college the college season wrapped up, or you know, late March as the NBA season wraps up or April, so it's been a while since they've played in the setting, playing with guys that they haven't really played with before, and it's just kind of that that check in point before you know, the last two three months here of the off season, where you know, maybe they are testing out their legs to see something that they've been working on a little bit, and then they're going to work further with the trainers as the summer progresses.
Yeah, I mean it is a long, long summer ahead of us. Thank goodness for the Olympics man to get us through, because normally you have that like, oh, basketball is not really gone, summer leagues here and then boom, nothing, nothingness for months. So it'll be very very nice to have the Olympics to help bridge that gap. Yeah, it definitely will be. You know, I'm obviously looking forward to rooting against you. The friendly did not go so well. It's all right, but you know, when when you're rooting for second place, I can I can justify it in my mind. Oh you can root for gold. Come on, it's a single elimination tournament. By the end, well, you know, it'll be a coward.
I'm hedging on the record, but off the record, off the record, you're you're going down, buddy, all right, But I do want to you know, we've talked about Craig. I want to lead with Jalen Tyson because obviously, as a first round pick, he's the only first round pick out of this group, and he's someone that you and I are both relatively high on, and you know, I think it's important to remember this is a guy that is older than Amani Bits and you know, you kind of hope with with having a physically developed body, that this would be a setting where he, you know, kind of stands out as someone that that looks like a pro.
And man, let me tell you, Jalen Tyson looks like a pro already.
The physicality really stands out like he has a man's body out there, just the basketball like Q and his understanding where to go. Not explosive in terms of his quickness getting by guys, but he really does leverage his strength well to get to his spots. And the thing I like about his athleticism that at least kind of stands out through two games is the lateral movement defensively appears to be there, like I don't feel like he's getting lost trying to stay in front of guys, that that anticipation's well. He's moving well laterally and you know, leaping off of two feet, he's able to get up right like he's able to dunk, he's able to you know.
Block shots.
And I think that that's really important because I think sometimes we just talk about athleticism like it's a single trait when really it comes in a lot of different shades.
I have a general thing I've just kind of got my eye out on for Tyson and it's that. And I noticed this in college too, in the tape that I watched in the aftermath of the pick, which is that he is not crazy quick footed, nor is he crazy explosive athletically, but he gets a decent amount of blocks and steals. And I think he's one of these guys who and his wingspan is not exceptional. You know, it's not bad, but it's not exceptional. And I think he's one of these guys who has these kind of wider frames kind of play. He's kind of like coiled like a snake, you know, and like he gets a lot of blocks and steels where the opposing player goes, wait you got to that, you know, like you can almost tell they're like almost thrown off by the fact that he was able to get that deflection or that block and like that, you know, that three that he blocked against Orlando was like I don't know, like the guy was like wait, what you're here? And it's not like he exploded onto the scene. It's almost like there are certain players who just are optical illusions for some reason and get that kind of stuff, like you know, Derek White's a guy who doesn't have an insane wingspan, right, you know, and it's just has good timing, good hands, and like, for whatever reason, Yeah, for whatever reason, lulls guy's into that sense of security. So that's a trend I'm going to be watching for the rest of Summer League and at the next level. It's been really fun having a guy who really cares about rebounding justin he has eight offensive rebounds through two games and really could have had quite a few more. Against Orlando, we had a lot of tip outs where the team is just so disconnected that he would knock the ball out and it would bounce three times before the magic would would pick it up in.
The structure of a normal offense, those are probably going to get recovered by the Cavs.
Yeah, So, like I'm really I'm really enjoying watching his physicality, you know, on the boards. I think he's really got a nastiness. He kind of gets inside guys and he's just strong. He's just big and strong. And like, one of the reasons I like the pick is that level of physicality is the fact that instead of being the guy who gets dug out on the dunker spot. He's the guy who's, you know, who can kind of get in under guys with a low center of gravity and bump them a couple of times and extend plays. And I'm it's they just really haven't had a lot of rebounding on the wing really in the last four or five years.
Yeah, And you know, even though he doesn't have the wingspan of some of these guys. I know I've mentioned this before, but like he is taller than a Michale Bridges. He is taller than a Devin Vasell or Calvin Johnson, right, and he's got that strength and you know, the knack for rebounding really stands out to me because that's something we've talked about with Okoro a ton, right, Like what a difference it would make if Isaac was out there consistently filling the box score with kind of those hustle stats and things like that.
And he's capable of.
Doing it at times, but it's just different when you can tell someone has a natural knack for that. And like his ability to you know, he was playing some power forward. He's I feel pretty good about his ability. Like he looks bigger than his size, right, Like which goes back to your optical illusion point, Like I feel good about him guarding you know, two through four. Like he's bigger than a Caleb Martin who exclusively played power forward pretty much for a final team in the heat, right, Like, I really do think that there is an opportunity and that versatility is going.
To be, you know, really important.
But I found this interesting because when we're trying to figure out how much weight to give summer league production, there was a study that was done by Owen Phillips on his sub stack, and he wanted to find the things that translate the most from summer league per thirty six to the regular season, and this I think it's the study started in twenty ten up until twenty twenty two, and it's basically anyone that played at least fifty minutes in summer league and two hundred and fifty minutes in the NBA, so a very large sample size. The things that translate the most from summer league, in order are three point attempts, assists, blocks, offensive rebounds, and field goal attempts. The things that translated the least in summer league free throw percentage, which is a sample sized thing, three point percentage steals, free throw attempted, and field goal percentage.
I'm not surprised to see the percentages all don't really matter because the samples just so small.
Right, right, which makes a lot of sense. I did find that steals not translating is interesting.
But I think that one is explicable though, just from the perspective of you have a lot of guys who are just not NBA level ball handlers out there, and they're not running, they're not running offenses they know very well, so I think they are. I think there are a lot too, right, there are a lot of the guy just threw the ball to me steals to be had where it's like you didn't have any preternatural timing that you're like, oh, I know he's going to put it here, and I'm going to jump the gun. It's like, oh, he just didn't know you were going to be there, and he misread the offense because he learned it three days ago. Like but like the things that translate, those all make sense to me too. You know, assist blocks an offensive rebounds. Offensive rebound feels like the most universal thing. You're either good at it or or not, right.
Which is why it's exciting when you look at Jalen Tyson per thirty six, six point three offensive rebounds per game, Carter, that's insane, like it, that's really kind of noteworthy. End he has been assertive. He's taking you know, twenty and a half shots per thirty six. That's great to see six point three three point attempts.
Just do we have a Josh Hart at home?
We might have a Josh Hart. We got a bigger Josh Hart at home. He's got three inches on him.
Carter.
I'm happy about it. But you know, the three point attempt great. Like I looked at how it would compare per thirty six to the Cavs players that we had last season, it would be eighth between Dean and Karris. Like that feels like, you know, I don't think he's ever going to be a high volume three point shooter, but that's a good range for him to be in this especially if he is, you know, an eventual successor to that Karris Lavert role in some ways, four point seven assists, that would be six on the team, right between Donovan Mitchell and Max Struce.
I like that, Like, what have you thought about the playmaking so far? I asked Mac this question as well.
I think there's been a few sloppy plays where he's been trying to do too much, or times where you know, he made the right read a second too late. There was one possession that really stood out to me in the Milwaukee game where he got the defensive rebound, he took it into the basket and flung it out to the perimeter, you know, to the forty five. Extra pass was made and they hit the three at the top of the arc.
I thought, like, that's the type of read that.
Basically like only Donovan makes, like Darius sometimes does that, the kickout, but the ability to get his body on the defender, get to the rim, get to his spot, stay under control, and throw that pass. That's the type of stuff that I liked to see. I like seeing those flashes more than I care about. Oh, he made a few mistakes, Like I want guys to make mistakes in this environment. I don't want them playing scared basketball, and I feel like he hasn't been doing that.
Yeah, I will say I was wondering, you know, you think about all the ranges of outcomes going into the into the summer league for your first round pick, and I was wondering if he might really blow me away as a playmaker just because he got so many reps at CAL getting to do that. He hasn't done that. I mean, he's got six assists to seven turnovers so far in summer league. Haven't really seen any of those high level reads that I saw little glimpses of in and Cal, where he's like running pick and roll and looking looking off the corner man so he can hit a guy for a wide open dunk. Like, I haven't really seen any of that. But like, I think he's been satisfactory as a playmaker. The handle I think could get a little tighter. You know, you're not going to be able to have a loose handle against the Anthony Black level athletes of the world. Would would you describe it level? Because we we like I think it's been better. Well maybe I guess I'm comparing summer leagues. I think, yeah, current Okoro, I don't know, it's just so different. You know, o'cordas didn't get any of these reps last year. Really, he's become such a generally off ball guy, whereas Tyson is getting reps literally running the second unit point guard at times. You know, when when gosh I forget his name, Hendrick Tour is out there with Tyson, Tyson is playing the one on offense and Coatur is playing the two.
Even though the reason I ask is because I feel like when a koro does create an advantage, he makes really nice reads, but he doesn't consistently put himself in those spots, like he's not consistently attacking kind of the closeouts and creating that advantage, whereas Tyson, like, I feel like the Reds are kind of about the same level, but he creates advantage at a higher rate, and you know he's he's staying on balance a little bit more in those situations, which is the thing that really really impresses me, Like the body control. I replied to your tweet with the Luke travers pass where Luke through a beautiful path, but it was just a little bit low and Tyson gathered it with his right brought it back over to his left, and you know, the footwork was so sound that he was able to finish at and it looks a lot of guys smoke exactly. He made it look routine and that is very very difficult to go low retrieve it with your right, bring it back to the left, and finish with the reverse. Like that kind of touch and that kind of feel, and like just consistently how good his footwork is and how infrequently he's off balance. That's the type of stuff to me that I'm really looking for in this environment.
Yeah, I think that body control point is a very very good one, and it also allows him to rise up with touch even in unideal circumstances, like to go back to the o'coro comp Like, so when o'koro he has a clean angle to the rim, I'm pretty confident he's going to finish. But when he when he gets bumped and he's kind of leaning back, that's where it's like, you know, he's just so tightly coiled, you know that, it's like he doesn't feel loose enough to kind of be under control and finish strong in those spots as well, Whereas I feel like Tyson has hit two or three floaters so far where he gets an offensive board and is falling backwards and is floating it up and is still able to finish with a degree of control even though and I think that kind of speaks to his balance and his ability to control his body, even when it's not under kind of optimal circumstances. So I've been very, very impressed. You know, I wouldn't say I've been blown away, but like, you know, he certainly hasn't been a guy where you go, oh, man, are we sure about this pick? Like I've been. I've been. I've seen all the.
Things that he looks like an NBA player for sure.
Yeah, And like I think the three point shot is going to be interesting. Again I said it after they drafted him. Don't think it's like the prettiest three point for him in the world. And that does, you know, prejudice me a little bit against him as a shooter, but like he has taken them quickly. He's got a high enough release that even hard closeouts aren't a huge problem. One he had to start the game against Milwaukee was you know, that was was flying at him. There's a very good close out and you know he cashed that and he you know, more importantly, he took that right. Like I was really really happy that he took that shot and shot it with confidence.
Yeah.
Absolutely. So overall they're having a good time with a Jalen Tyson experience, and you know, I feel like, he's a guy who I've liked more the better the talent is on the floor. And that's a nice thing because if he plays for the big league team at all next year, it'll be with better players.
There's going to be a good amount of uh, you know, talent on the floor with him. I want to make a too early prediction. Do you think that he's going to see some time in the rotation next season?
I do. And here's why. I think it's just going to be a numbers game, because Kenny Atkinson has said he likes to run a deep rotation nine ten guys. If you got ten guys out there, you know, let's say it's the starters. Let's say and let's assume Ocoro is back, because I still think that is the most likely outcome, at least for now. You have Ocoro, you have Keris, you have Wade, you have Kniang. There's your you know, six through through nine in the rotation. Then you're going to have either Jerome or CPJ, who I think are going to battle for that backup point guard those backup one minutes and then it's Merrill one of those two guards, Tyson and whoever their backup point guard or backups big that they sign is and like when you in those four swing spots, I can see a case depending on who is hurt or unavailable on a given day, who gets in foul trouble, who's sick, whatever it is, that any one of these four can be brought in, Like, oh, Terrris is out, we need some you know, big playmaking wing help. Or Okoro is out, we need Tyson to come in and be someone who you know, guards with some physicality. Oh, you know, Donovan's out, we want more shooting. We're gonna play Sam or you know.
Whoever it may be, Like Dean's out, we're and we're we don't want to, you know, wear down Max too much playing small ball four. So we're going to play Tyson there because he's going to bring physicality and rebound it and do those kind of things.
Yeah. I just think if you're running ten deep, and if you're committed to running ten deep, like everyone's just going to get a shot to play, you know, at some point or another, whether he earns a perpetual spot in the rotation, I'm pretty bearish on that. I'm not I'm not you know, I think if you had to make me guess right the second, I'd say no, just because there's guys in front of him that are good at stuff, you know, uh, and that are older and more tenured. But but now I think, I think it's absolutely possib that, And but I wouldn't say, like it's way more likely that he doesn't get into the rotation this year than he does. I just think it's if he had to make me pick one or the other, i'd say no.
I think just with his style of play and you know, the physical maturity, I don't think he's going to be in the rotation to start the season. But I wouldn't be surprised after you know a couple of months and there's been some injuries and he's gone his opportunities through there that he just kind of gets a spot in the rotation and doesn't let go of it, especially like we always think, oh, they got to get minutes to develop. But he's going to be practicing with these guys all the time, and you know, just everything you hear about him just being you know, someone that gives that kind of work eth and you know he understands the game at a high level.
I really see.
Him kind of gaining that opportunity, and you know, if they don't make a move this offseason, maybe he him playing well and stepping up during injuries allows them to make kind of a smaller consolidation move by the deadline because we have a level of confidence that he's going to be able to step in and contribute. So therefore, we can turn two of our kind of depth guys into someone that addresses a need at a different spot in the rotation, and it opens up some minutes. Like they really do kind of have good depth, and they do have the kind of support that you want to kind of support that we get from Zoom support for this podcast, and the following message comes from Zoom. Half a million businesses connect using Zoom, a single platform for phone chat, workspaces, events, apps, and video. Zoom enables real time collaboration for teams are on the globe. Zoom How the world connects. Carter after Jalen Tyson. I think we've talked about the two guys most likely to see regular season minutes.
Oh wait, give me, give me Teamy up. Brother.
I want to ask you. We know Craig's going to get some regular season minutes. We know Tyson's going to get some regular season minutes. The next name on the list that we need to discuss, who do you think is most ready to contribute for the Cleveland Cavaliers next season?
If call upon.
Brother, it's Luke Travers. I love Luke, and I do think it's an interesting question that you know we should ask, because you know, I think it's absolutely possible that the Calves, you know, the Calves have two two way spots or three two way spots open right now, and I want to say two roster spots open right now if you if you count Okoro as the thirteenth man, Yeah, and you know, I guess I'm actually before we talk about all the things I love about Luke Travers, I would ask you this, if you were going to sign Amani Bits or Luke Travers to fill one of those open main roster spots, who would you pick? And you can pick neither, that would be okay too.
Well. The remaining free agent crop probably does make it a little.
Easier to say one of them, but I'd probably say Luke Travers. The thing, I just think Amani still needs a little bit of time. I'm really impressed, like he looks noticeably bigger physically, like you can tell he's been putting the work in and like it's one thing to work on your game and your shot, but like the level of dedication it takes to add that much weight over a year and have it be you know, lean functional muscle, Like that's really really impressive, and I think you know that that's the type of work ethic that's going to eventually get him rewarded with an NBA contract. Tricky thing is like you need shooting and Amani brings that more and Luke I really don't have a lot of confidence in his three point shot at all, but every other thing he brings to the table just feels like it's at an NBA level. Like the athleticism seems to be there, the defense seems to be there. He rebounds, he assists, he's such a smart cutter, and you know, if this was last year's offense, and you know, like we're going into it with last year's mentality, then I think almost the money might be the better fit. Where Okay, you know, stand in the corner. We're going to get you some shots, provide some spacing. But if we're going to be running Kenny Atkinson offense, where there's you know, equal opportunity, not as much dribbling, a lot of playmaking at different positions that you can leverage, and really taking advantage of cutters like someone like Luke Travers can thrive in that environment. Similar to Ronde Hollis Jefferson how he did in Brooklyn as a non shooter.
Wow, good poll. Ronde Hollis Jefferson nets legend. I I think you're right and I at this point, man, I'm like, I'm in watching a guy like Travers who like, dude, it's so hard to pop as a player in summer league if you're not a dribbler and scorer, or you're one of these omega defensive anchor big men who are is just swatten shots left and right. It's so hard to pop. And every time he's on the floor, the calves play better. Yeah, and it's it's you know, he just understands the game so well. I think he is a plus athlete. He has some vertical pop in coordination, he's big, and you know he he both sees passes and makes passes, which is I always say passing as a two tier skill we matched into one. He's good at both of those skills and maybe elite at seeing them. Yeah, in terms of just it's really you know, how hard is to know where your teammates are on the floor in a summer league game, Like like, he really just has that preternatural feel. And I'm at the point justin where I'm like, someone tell me what I'm missing that makes him not an NBA player right now? I just feel like I see so many guys in the league that are that are older, that have that help their team much less, that aren't so much, that don't have such an outlandishly better skill set that like that, it's just so clear that they should be there and he shouldn't. So like, I just I just I don't really know what I'm missing because with size like that, I'm okay with an up and down jump shot. Yeah, And because there are so many glue guys in the league. And I said this on Max Spot as well, but there are a lot of glue guys in this league that they're they're Milford men. They're neither seen nor heard. That's their appeal is that you put them out there, They're not going to mess up. They'll hit open threes and it's fine, you know, it's fine for everyone, no one cares. But what a guy like Luke does is he's a glue guy in the sense that he's in this perpetual motion where he catched. He makes cuts that open up shots for other guys. He leaks out in transition at the right time every time without compromising the other end of the floor. He draws fouls. He when he does dribble and he runs out at out of space, he makes the pocket pass to DJ Burns that lets him draw a foul. Like I just see winning play after winning play after winning play, and the Cabs have so much high end talent on their roster that like, I just can't imagine this guy does not help them if he is called upon in some spot minutes and I just think he's an NBA player. I don't know, man, I.
Think I think, basically, I'll say this, I feel like anxious about how sure I am that he's an NBA player, because like it doesn't seem like the NBA community is like as sure as I am, And like normally when I'm that far off from like when I'm this sure about something, that everyone else seems to be this not sure about.
Him, Like am I what am I missing? Because I really just love watching this guy play. I've loved it for three years now, and like, I just want to see this guy get a shot.
Yeah.
I think the last time, you know, one of us felt this shore about a player, the other one was comparing him to DJ Augustine the the The other thing like with Luke is like I think basically it comes down to shooting. Like if if he had, you know, the knockdown jump shot, I think you could say, all right, likenwn jump shot, he's a starter, right right, Like he'd be awesome. But I think you know, Brandie Halls Jefferson was one name. But even if you look at that Warriors championship team that they had, there was a lot of guys playing significant minutes that weren't knockdown shooters. But what they brought to the table was playmaking, right, Like they move well. They were intelligent players that played within the system. And I think that goes back to what we've talked about with Evan Mobley of what's more the handle or the three point shot, Like if you are able to play make, if you're able to put the ball on the floor, that comes with a gravity in itself. And spacing isn't just hey, let's play helio centric for out one ball handler, like you know that, that's not what spacing is. It's, you know, the threat to do multiple things and keep the defense honest. And you look at that Warriors team. Obviously Draymond Green top of the list of guys that, you know, not a three point threat, but the playmaking creates gravity shot twenty nine percent that year. Damian Lee, not a three point shooter, played heavy minutes for them. Andre Gadala, not a three point shooter, played heavy minutes for them. Gary Payton, Jonathan Kaminga like all of these guys played significant minutes for that championship Warriors team that had great spacing but weren't great three point shooters. And when I look at this CAZ roster, they have guys that I'm confident that can shoot threes, right, Like we we set a franchise record for three point makes last year, and quite a few guys didn't have as great of a year shooting from three. Or you know, Darius with the various injuries, Donovan with his various injuries, his three point percentage fell off. Karris like Max was George, Yeah, but George, like Max was, you know, at the career kind of career rate, but he is shooting was so much better in those games with Darius playing, just because he had a point guard to set them up.
Like there there's as is.
I think that there is good three point shooting and spacing and with the proper offensive structure, it can highlight that skill set even more. And you know, when it comes to someone like Luke Travers as well, how he fits with the existing rotation isn't as important because you know we're talking about is Jalen Ticon going to get regular season minutes in the rotation, he'd get it before Travers, Like Travers would be so far down the list, But just having him in the environment I think would be beneficial, whether that's on a two way, whether that's on on an NBA deal, it would be really nice to to have him in that mix because he is someone that brings so much to the table. He's someone that sees the game at such a high level that I just can't help but feel like he would benefit from being around that NBA system.
So this and if I were and if I were in Luke Travers camp, if I were, you know, an agent, a family friend, whatever it may be. Like what I would say is like, you know, if the Calves offer a two way, I would absolutely jump at that because the yeah, this, this team's track record is to convert their two way guys that perform well for them. They inevitably call upon the ones that have that earn it, you know, Dean Wade, Lamar Stevens, Craig Porter Jr. And when those guys show out and help Sam, I do not think was ever on a two way. I think he was just on the G League team because I actually I know you're right, that's correct, But like, these guys got into the cave system, earned their way onto the team, and this has been a pretty meritocracy team at the bottom of the roster. Like, if you want to earn your way onto the main roster, here is your road to doing so. And like, if I'm right about Luke, and Luke is right about Luke that he's an NBA player, I think even on a two way, he will very quickly show that he belongs.
But honestly, like I think the fact that Sam Merril wasn't on a two way actually strengthens your point to some extent because it's not Hey, these are the guys that were invested in if we if you display an opportunity within the organization, whether you're a two way player or not, Like, if you display a skill set that we believe can translate to the NBA, we are going to reward you with that opportunity. I think that's a really important message to send players like, you know, maybe you know that that might be the thing that there might not be a two way spot for someone like DJ Burns, but that might be an incentive for playing with a charging next season of Hey, you know, like we might promote someone that that's on a two way contract and open up an opportunity, or like you might find your way into you know, some regular season minutes. You never know what a season can bring. So I think that track the Cavs ability to find diamonds in the rub to develop that talent. I think that that does make things attractive, and I think that's a very you know, salient point when it comes to Travers.
God, I love Luke Trevor's He's such a cool player. Just just you know, you find players who speak your basketball language, who play the game the way you value it, and it's like, you know, it's just fun. You know, it's fun to root for those guys like and like every now and again, those guys just kind of fall into your lap and and like, you know, and they and I will admit a big part of this is a bit of a Cocher Pepsi kind of taste thing where it's like, I just like the way that guy plays, and I'm and I want that kind of play to be rewarded. So like, I understand I'm biased a little bit here, but like again, I would love for someone to talk me out of it. I would love someone to explain to me what I'm missing, because I'm not, like, you know, I don't want to stick my head in the standards to be like this is what I think. It's fine, but yeah, really really cool player and really enjoying good no surprise, just and he makes it. He misses game one, we get blown out, goes into game two, we blow the doors off of baby.
Look at you becoming the disciple of the on off stats.
You know me Summer League plus minus king over here, speaking of basketball love language, Monty Baits is taking thirteen point four threes per thirty cents.
You know, there's your basketball love language and then.
There's mine, two sides of the same coin, my friend, And you.
Know I love the gunner.
I love a hooper and a mony baits like you know, the physical transformation.
Your love language is that boy nice.
That boy nice as hell?
And you know I love you know, the willingness to take those shots. I still think the best road for him he is to be a catch and shoot three point shooter. You know, the kind of set step side step wing threes that he takes. Stuff like that. I just don't think you're going to that's as needed kind of within.
It can allow him to take those shots if he's playing real competitive minutes in the NBA right now.
Right like, you know, I think he's going to take those shots if you give him minutes in the NBA, And what your ability to allow that to happen is basically am I playing him or not?
Which you know, I do love that mentality.
But you know, it's important to keep in mind that he is someone that's younger than Tyson, right Like, this is still you know, a development pot.
It's funny I hadn't considered that soil you brought it up on this here podcast.
Yeah, like it's he was crazy young going into that draft, I think Tyson, which is weird because he was a two year college player because he was one of the guys who reclassified in high school.
It's it's absolutely wild.
I think he's actually two years younger than Jalen Tyson, if I'm not mistaken. So, like, you know, the physical transformation to me is the biggest thing, Like it's that's such a difficult thing. And now that he's you know, the same weight as like a brandon ingram like that, that's meaningful, right. And I liked his second game a whole lot more than the first because I thought there was less of kind of those you know, side step, let let me create something threes and you know, the playmaking, like he actually made some really kind of nice reads out there and was displaying some of that feel, you know, not blowing me away on the defensive end, but not standing out as much as he did last year, which is one of those kind of signs of growth. You would like to see him get a little bit more stocks. He's got no steels or blocks through two games, but I thought, you know, positionally he's doing pretty well and you know, with the length he has, like he can be bothersome at times.
Yeah, I mean I think I definitely feel like I've seen the extra weight on defense a little more than the offense thus far. Like you know, I mean, a stiff win could knock him over last year, and that's you know, that's just he was uncommonly thin for an NBA, for a professional basketball player, and like now he's normal thin, and that that matters a lot. You know, I haven't really seen him use that much on the offensive end. Like he's still you know, he still can get bumped off his spots a little bit, just you know, just like Brandon Ingram can. You know, he's still skinny. But like the difference between a shoulder bump on a normal straight line drive knocking you into the third row versus just knocking you back a foot or two, uh, is pretty immense. Because like, as long as he's not getting knocked into the third row, that's where your length can be a factor. His frame was so limited last year that he couldn't use his wingspan in height to his advantage. It just it wasn't even part of the play. If he got attacked in isolation at the NBA level, So I'll be interested to see that. I liked your point about the playmaking. Even in the Magic game, he made a couple of really nice reads, like listen, if the guy is running a set and like has a little bit of structure around him and it's just chooses to play with his head up, he makes some nice reads. He made a couple like high level passes, yeah, against the bucks and not just.
Finding like an open dump off or anything like that, like it actually is, Hey, I'm going to pass this guy open and create a good shot opportunity for them. Yeah, he made some really really nice looks there, So like I would encourage him to continue to do so, you know, like make sure it's like hey man, just literally keep your head up. Don't get into ISO one on one game until he is a last resort until there's three four seconds on the shot clock, because we trust that you can get that shot off with twelve seconds on the shot clock or two, and we don't really think your shot percentage is going to go that far down later in the shot clock compared to where you are at twelve.
So like I think, I think ultimately the playmaking has impressed me in spurts. And also I would say this, he's just not making any threes. I don't think his threes have been terribly harder than they were last year. And that's where you calling out that three point percentage is like the least important, you know, one of the one of the least translatable things. It's just a small sample, and like if he was eight of sixteen instead of four of sixteen, I think we're probably talking a little bit differently about him so far the Summer League, we will go, oh, man, this guy's made some nice passes and he's still shooting the lights out of the ball, like and like he's just not that far off from doing that. So you know, I I overall, I don't think he has changed my long term mind about him. Like I think that would be like his best case scenario where he comes into Summer League in year two and he's like, I'm a no doubt rosterable player. Yeah. I don't think he's done that, but I certainly have seen the nice little spurts that I want to see, and I also trust that the shot will be there.
Yeah, you know, the the season he had in the G League, I think it is a lot more tellingly, he took and made more threes than he did in his two years in college. Like, I have no doubt in my mind that Amani Bates is a good shooter. And for those that aren't familiar, like kind of the accepted kind of you know, benchmark of three point shots normalizing is seven hundred attempts, like that's it's a lot of attempts. Like guys will have kind of weird outlier seasons. As an example, Isaac o Koro in his two hundred and eighty career games has taken seven one hundred and fifty seven threes, right so like, and we saw that even in the postseason, right like, if he made two or three more threes all of a sudden, it's a great percentage. But that's not really going to tell you anything one way or another. That's why you know, three point attempts being the thing that translates the most out of Summer League. Like, we know that Amani Bits is a high volume three point shooter. We know that he's someone that can get his shot off in a variety of situations. And you know, to me, what I've seen from him is just an indicator of what we heard when we talked to my Garrity few months ago, which is the guy that works his ass off, right, like he is putting the work in. You see that development physically, it's just, you know, another reminder of why the Cavs are invested in him as kind of a long term project, because you get someone with that kind of length that can shoot the cover off the ball and has some playmaking feel, you get the other stuff to a certain point all of a sudden, like you can get those NBA skill sets onto the court and from there you're laughing right like that's one of the toughest archetypes to find. And he's like the fact that he's still twenty man like he was younger than so many guys in this year's draft, and it's just nice to see that.
Before we were a hilariously old summer league team last year and now we're actually pretty young.
Yeah, we're just fun.
Can I just say, as a little aside, I loved you know, we lean on like as basketball media, we lean on cliches so damn frequently. I love that in the broadcas as against the Bucks, Matt Winer goes the Kas are showing some of that championship resolt from last year's Summer League, and then he caught himself and was like, although almost none of the same players are returned, Yeah, you know, you know.
We just don't worry about it, Matt.
We we go off of our experience and we work our way backwards. And it's something that I just really enjoy and I love kind of the self awareness in the moment. Before we wrap this thing up, let's talk about our boy, Pete Carter.
What are your thoughts?
Uh, you know, I think I think the three looks a little bit better at least percentage wise, though it's a weird form. I kind of say, it's always surprises me on the way up. But you know, he's what is he two of I think he went to a five against uh, the Magic and when he shooting shooting, he's taking four four of eight from three in his minutes, had a few nice finishes against against Milwaukee, he has run the floor, shown a little bit of open court ball handling. I think the defense, you know, he's just a little stiff as a defender. He's not a crazy flexible athlete. You know, I'm.
Sometimes like it's stopped motion, Like I just hear the Ben Wyatt stand in the place where you live, and I see him move sometimes.
Yeah, I'm not I'm not so sure about him still. You know, I think I think he's shown improvement, shown growth. I think he's definitely like right there on, you know, I mean certainly would love to see him on the charge next year. It'll be interesting to see if he is. You know, again, he's in that two way mix. Chris Fiedo reported that, you know, in that you know, he's in that mix, right with Amani, right with Nakon Tomlin, who I'd like to sneak a little comment on at the end about and you know, you wonder about I don't know if Zayer Smith is even too way eligible at this point. I know he's much older at this point. But you know, I think he's been okay. I think his defense, you know, his defense was part of the reason why they struggled against Orlando. And I thought he was much better at Milwaukee. So you know, I don't have a ton to say on old Pete.
Yeah, you know, I think he's a good athlete in some sense. You know, the shop blocking stands out, Like I thought, he's had really nice time in there, and like, if you're a big that can block shots and shoot threes, there's going to be an opportunity for you. I'd like the rebounding to be just a little bit stronger, you know, talking about that as one of the things that translates. Fact that he's only averaging one point eight offensive rebounds per thirty six through two games. Isn't like doesn't jump off the page. And the playmaking isn't incredibly strong either, But you know, there's enough there that you know, as you said, I would like to see him on the charge for sure.
Yeah. I didn't want to sneak a little Nakwan Tomlin thing because I did a little homework on the guy look at you in the wake of Chris Fiedor saying that he was kind of in that like consideration and like a guy the team was interested in. Uh, he didn't play high school basketball, and that's a crazy that's a crazy fact. There's a New York Times article about it. I think it's, you know, just kind of an unusual upbringing. And then he bounced around. I played two years of JUCO and played Kansas State, then went to Memphis, So he's kind of had a an all over the place kind of basketball upbringing. But like, you know, for a guy who didn't even play high school basketball, talk about a fluid athlete.
Man, Oh my god, he's such a freaking athlete.
Yeah, he's I mean, he's about six ten with shoes, can jump hit a buzzer beat or three off the bounce.
Deep one at that.
Yeah, a really fluid finisher with nice touch. I watched a bunch of his tape at Memphis, talked to I asked Maxwell Bombach of No Ceilings, who came out and did our pre draft pod, said that if he hadn't had you know, I think he had some off the court troubles at Kansas State, that's part of the reason why he went to Memphis. But Beso was like, if he didn't have that, he thinks he probably he might have been a draft a guy that might have been drafted. So this is a this is a talented prospect that has had a unusual kind of basketball upbringing. And like, I like guys. I like that the Calves are identifying guys like that. Even if he doesn't get a two way spot, even if they even if you know, I remember Billy Preston, they took a shot on him reference where it was like guy with either really great measurables or really great pedigree that just like things didn't quite go their way. It's like, let's bring him in see if we can find a diamond in the rough here and figure out you know, Dean Waite is a guy like that who was definitely going to be picked, then got hurt at Kansas State or and and then was all of a sudden available as an undrafted free agent. The Calves scooped him up. And you know, this is not the sexy part of the scouting job, but I thought it was interesting that they're taking a crack at like a guy with a really interesting profile like that. And you know, I've been keeping my eye on him on the floor and you know, he's made a few a few splashy things that caught my eye.
Yeah.
I mean, anytime you can get a six ten forward that's a freak athlete like if again, like that kind of goes back to the money thing of like the physical traits or that the couple skill sets that are there but maybe not refined. Like that's one of those things that if you can refine, if you can you know, maybe he is not as far along the development curve as you would expect for his age, given the fact that he didn't play high school basketball. And like, when you find those diamonds are rough and you're able to capitalize on that, like that's really important that can create value in it, especially in this modern CBA environment. Finding that cheap value is essential to continuing to keep your window open. And you got to competitive players who out kick their coverage are more valuable than what you're paying them. Yeah, and so I like that the scouting team is finding guys like this. YEA feel like it's a it's a it's a sneaky good thing. Kobe and Mike Kansey's front office is.
Good at Yeah, I totally agree.
So that'll be someone that I'll probably keep a more of an eye on. I appreciate you bringing them up, and we'll see how the rest of these guys continue to fare in Summer League. As I said before, I'm interested to see how one they continue to play, and I'd like to see them, you know, make a little bit of a run and keep getting in as many games as possible, which you know is sixty percent selfishness from a content standpoint, and you know forty percent that I want to see the Cavs in any Jersey do well. So big thanks to everyone that tune in live on YouTube. Make sure you guys like and subscribe. Click that notification bell so you know when we're going live. If you're listening to VIA podcast and you want to support us, leave us rating your review, subscribe usubscribe you subscribe and help cook those books. If you want to be part of the Chase Down's exclusive discord chat, Sindy Screenshaw the review to Chase Down potted gmail dot com. However you choose to support us, we really do appreciate it. Make sure you guys are staying I out there Until next time, Go gas
