Is it time for NZ to be bolder with regulating big tech?

Peter talks to the European Union's envoy to Silicon Valley about how the EU's efforts to regulate big tech have been received and what NZ could learn from the massive government's imminent law changes.

We also ask if Microsoft's co-pilot can really be worth the pricetag.

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Is it time for NZ to be bolder with regulating big tech?
Peter talks to the European Union's envoy to Silicon Valley about how the EU's efforts to regulate big tech have been received and what NZ could learn from the massive government's imminent law changes.
We also ask if Microsoft's co-pilot can really be worth the pricetag.
Subscribe on <a href="https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1049-the-business-of-tech-114330718/">iHeart Radio</a> or <a href="https://pod.link/1686022906">wherever you get podcasts.</a>
<a href="https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/technology/business-of-tech-podcast-putting-big-tech-on-notice-with-the-eus-silicon-valley-envoy">Reading list</a>

The Business of Tech, hosted by leading tech journalist Peter Griffin. Every week they take a deep dive into emerging technology and news from the sector to help guide the important decisions all Business leaders make.

Issues such as cybersecurity, retaining trust after a cyberattack, business IT needs, purchasing SaaS tools and more.

New Episodes out every Thursday. Follow or subscribe to get it delivered straight to your favourite podcatcher.

@petergnz

@businessdesk_nz

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The Business of Tech, hosted by leading tech journalist Peter Griffin. Every week they take a deep dive into emerging technology and news from the sector to help guide the important decisions all Business leaders make.
Issues such as cybersecurity, retaining trust after a cyberattack, business IT needs, purchasing SaaS tools and more.
New Episodes out every Thursday. Follow or subscribe to get it delivered straight to your favourite podcatcher.
@petergnz
@businessdesk_nz
Proudly sponsored by 2degrees Business!
&nbsp;

The Business of Tech

Putting big tech on notice, with EU's envoy to Silicon Valley Gerard de Graaf

Artificial intelligence is no longer confined to the data centres of Silicon Valley or the cloud regions dotted around the world. 

It is heading into orbit, hitching a ride on satellites and space stations in a way that could transform defence, climate monitoring, disaster response – and the balance of power itself. Starcloud, Google's Project Suncatcher, SpaceX V3 Starlink satellites, and Axiom Space represent the first wave of the orbital AI race.

When SpaceX undertakes its initial public offering (IPO), as early as next month, its valuation will depend to a large extent on how much credibility its plans to put data centres in space are deemed to be. In space, solar panels can supply constant energy to power the chips running high-capacity AI workloads. But that's only part of the reason why tech companies are scrambling to put data centres in space...

This week on The Business of Tech, I talk to Wellington‑based enterprise architect and AI governance specialist Andreas Hamberger, whose new book Space Mafia explores how quickly “orbital AI” is moving from sci‑fi to infrastructure. 

Drawing on three decades in enterprise tech and a deep background in logic and ethics, Andreas argues that putting high‑capacity AI into space opens up an accountability gap that our laws – and our institutions – are nowhere near ready for.

Heaven or Skynet?

On the upside, orbital AI promises what Hamberger terms a “heaven vector” where satellites analyse live sensor data to spot tsunamis in the Pacific, track major polluters in real time, and give us a planetary‑scale view of climate risk. Done well, it could become an engine of equity, giving every country access to insights that used to belong only to superpowers.

But there’s a darker “Skynet vector”. Space is, in practice, a legal grey zone. When companies start training models and running inference beyond the reach of terrestrial copyright, privacy and weapons laws, who are they accountable to? In Space Mafia, Andreas shows how orbit could become the ultimate jurisdictional escape hatch, a place to crunch stolen data, generate “kill lists”, or run ethically dubious experiments with almost no legal friction.

In our conversation, we dig into four real‑world case studies, from data‑centre constellations through to human‑genome work and defence systems that blend orbital AI with hypersonic weapons. Andreas explains why small countries like New Zealand, one of a handful that has space launch capability thanks to Rocket Lab, are unexpectedly central to this story, how new regulations here and in Europe might bite, and what boards, architects and founders should be doing now to close the accountability gap before it’s too late.

Listen to my full conversation with Andreas Hamberger in episode 150 of The Business of Tech, streaming on iHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Show notes

Space Mafia: The Battle Between an Accountable "Heaven" and an Unfettered "Skynet" in Orbital AI 

Space Mafia - the documentary - Andreas Hamberger

SpaceX and Google Are in Talks to Launch Data Centres in Orbit - Wall Street Journal

Data Centres in Space: A Pipe Dream, or AI’s Next Big Thing? - Wall Street Journal

Artificial intelligence is no longer confined to the data centres of Silicon Valley or the cloud regions dotted around the world.&nbsp;
It is heading into orbit, hitching a ride on satellites and space stations in a way that could transform defence, climate monitoring, disaster response &ndash; and the balance of power itself. Starcloud, Google's Project Suncatcher, SpaceX V3 Starlink satellites, and Axiom Space represent the first wave of the orbital AI race.
When SpaceX undertakes its initial public offering (IPO), as early as next month, its valuation will depend to a large extent on how much credibility its plans to put data centres in space are deemed to be. In space, solar panels can supply constant energy to power the chips running high-capacity AI workloads. But that's only part of the reason why tech companies are scrambling to put data centres in space...
This week on The Business of Tech, I talk to Wellington‑based enterprise architect and AI governance specialist Andreas Hamberger, whose new book Space Mafia explores how quickly &ldquo;orbital AI&rdquo; is moving from sci‑fi to infrastructure.&nbsp;
Drawing on three decades in enterprise tech and a deep background in logic and ethics, Andreas argues that putting high‑capacity AI into space opens up an accountability gap that our laws &ndash; and our institutions &ndash; are nowhere near ready for.
Heaven or Skynet?
On the upside, orbital AI promises what Hamberger terms a &ldquo;heaven vector&rdquo; where satellites analyse live sensor data to spot tsunamis in the Pacific, track major polluters in real time, and give us a planetary‑scale view of climate risk. Done well, it could become an engine of equity, giving every country access to insights that used to belong only to superpowers.
But there&rsquo;s a darker &ldquo;Skynet vector&rdquo;. Space is, in practice, a legal grey zone. When companies start training models and running inference beyond the reach of terrestrial copyright, privacy and weapons laws, who are they accountable to? In Space Mafia, Andreas shows how orbit could become the ultimate jurisdictional escape hatch, a place to crunch stolen data, generate &ldquo;kill lists&rdquo;, or run ethically dubious experiments with almost no legal friction.
In our conversation, we dig into four real‑world case studies, from data‑centre constellations through to human‑genome work and defence systems that blend orbital AI with hypersonic weapons. Andreas explains why small countries like New Zealand, one of a handful that has space launch capability thanks to Rocket Lab, are unexpectedly central to this story, how new regulations here and in Europe might bite, and what boards, architects and founders should be doing now to close the accountability gap before it&rsquo;s too late.
Listen to my full conversation with Andreas Hamberger in episode 150 of The Business of Tech, streaming on iHeartRadio, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Show notes
<a href="https://www.amazon.com/Space-Mafia-Between-Accountable-Unfettered-ebook/dp/B0GTN5TXJW/ref=books_amazonstores_desktop_mfs_aufs_ap_sc_dsk_1?_encoding=UTF8&amp;pd_rd_w=Uqapc&amp;content-id=amzn1.sym.9c9a049f-252a-49d9-a8c2-e300a1663200&amp;pf_rd_p=9c9a049f-252a-49d9-a8c2-e300a1663200&amp;pf_rd_r=141-8140737-8015015&amp;pd_rd_wg=zLJdD&amp;pd_rd_r=8fbef5a1-3ef3-41c8-86a1-35be034a9078">Space Mafia: The Battle Between an Accountable "Heaven" and an Unfettered "Skynet" in Orbital AI</a>&nbsp;
<a href="https://www.thehambergerreport.com/">Space Mafia - the documentary</a> - Andreas Hamberger
<a href="https://www.wsj.com/tech/spacex-google-in-talks-to-explore-data-centers-in-orbit-7b7799e2">SpaceX and Google Are in Talks to Launch Data Centres in Orbit</a> - Wall Street Journal
<a href="https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/data-centers-in-space-a-pipe-dream-or-ais-next-big-thing-c13bb184">Data Centres in Space: A Pipe Dream, or AI&rsquo;s Next Big Thing?</a> - Wall Street Journal

Space Mafia: How orbital AI changes everything

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/13c50929-453f-40d4-b528-b44f01617057/transcript

The Opportunity Party is attracting growing support from young tech professionals, scientists, and startup founders, demanding bolder, more evidence‑based leadership.

That’s according to Opportunity party leader Qiulae Wong, the businesswoman, climate leader and mother who will lead the party into the election in a bid to crest the 5% popular vote threshold needed to see the party in a position to support a coalition government.

On this week’s episode of The Business of Tech, I sit down with Wong to discuss her party’s plan to lift New Zealand out of its low‑productivity rut by putting innovation at the centre of economic policy. 

You’ll hear how the Opportunity Party wants to double R&D investment from around 1.5% of GDP to 3% – finally putting us in the same league as other advanced economies – and pair that with much stronger support for commercialisation so ideas don’t just die in the lab. 

We also dig into how greater competition in highly concentrated sectors like supermarkets, banking and energy could free up capital and lower barriers for new, tech‑driven challengers.

Gold standard AI rules

A big focus of the episode is artificial intelligence and the weightless tech economy. Wong explains why New Zealand needs “gold standard” AI rules that are tight on outcomes but open for innovation, so founders can build globally competitive AI products here rather than in London or San Francisco. We talk skills, education, and the critical thinking needed to make sure AI boosts productivity instead of hollowing out jobs.

We also unpack how the Opportunity Party plans to pay for its policy agenda. Its newly released tax policy includes a 1.75% land value tax, a universal citizens’ income and compulsory “KiwiSaver 2.0” savings. Qiulae argues this package is designed to shift money out of speculative property and into productive investment, while helping fund a serious uplift in R&D and a faster clean‑energy transition. 

Rounding out the episode, we explore a 25‑year energy strategy, ways to bring Kiwi tech talent home, and how citizens’ assemblies and digital voting could revitalise our democracy for a generation that lives online.

Has Opportunity got a chance? Recent polls have the party hovering around 3% of the popular vote, shy of the level needed to get its candidates into Parliament. But these are unprecedented times, with younger voters in particular looking for bold leadership. The momentum may be on this minor party’s side.

Listen to the full conversation with Qiulae Wong on this week’s episode of The Business of Tech, streaming on iHeartRadio, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

The Opportunity Party is attracting growing support from young tech professionals, scientists, and startup founders, demanding bolder, more evidence‑based leadership.
That&rsquo;s according to Opportunity party leader Qiulae Wong, the businesswoman, climate leader and mother who will lead the party into the election in a bid to crest the 5% popular vote threshold needed to see the party in a position to support a coalition government.
On this week&rsquo;s episode of The Business of Tech, I sit down with Wong to discuss her party&rsquo;s plan to lift New Zealand out of its low‑productivity rut by putting innovation at the centre of economic policy.&nbsp;
You&rsquo;ll hear how the Opportunity Party wants to double R&amp;D investment from around 1.5% of GDP to 3% &ndash; finally putting us in the same league as other advanced economies &ndash; and pair that with much stronger support for commercialisation so ideas don&rsquo;t just die in the lab.&nbsp;
We also dig into how greater competition in highly concentrated sectors like supermarkets, banking and energy could free up capital and lower barriers for new, tech‑driven challengers.
Gold standard AI rules
A big focus of the episode is artificial intelligence and the weightless tech economy. Wong explains why New Zealand needs &ldquo;gold standard&rdquo; AI rules that are tight on outcomes but open for innovation, so founders can build globally competitive AI products here rather than in London or San Francisco. We talk skills, education, and the critical thinking needed to make sure AI boosts productivity instead of hollowing out jobs.
We also unpack how the Opportunity Party plans to pay for its policy agenda. Its newly released tax policy includes a 1.75% land value tax, a universal citizens&rsquo; income and compulsory &ldquo;KiwiSaver 2.0&rdquo; savings. Qiulae argues this package is designed to shift money out of speculative property and into productive investment, while helping fund a serious uplift in R&amp;D and a faster clean‑energy transition.&nbsp;
Rounding out the episode, we explore a 25‑year energy strategy, ways to bring Kiwi tech talent home, and how citizens&rsquo; assemblies and digital voting could revitalise our democracy for a generation that lives online.
Has Opportunity got a chance? Recent polls have the party hovering around 3% of the popular vote, shy of the level needed to get its candidates into Parliament. But these are unprecedented times, with younger voters in particular looking for bold leadership. The momentum may be on this minor party&rsquo;s side.
Listen to the full conversation with Qiulae Wong on this week&rsquo;s episode of The Business of Tech, streaming on iHeartRadio, Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Power play: Qiulae Wong on R&D, AI, hi-tech skills and tax

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/3a003766-fc6a-430e-a3a3-b448002e252d/transcript

Market research has long been a privilege of the big end of town. Got $50,000 and six weeks to spare? Great, you can know what your customers think. Everyone else? Good luck.

That model is being dismantled, and a New Zealand startup is doing some of the dismantling. In the latest episode of The Business of Tech, I sat down with James Donald, CEO of Auckland-based Ideally, fresh from closing a $16 million Series A that values the company at $100 million. 

Ideally is one of three AI-centric New Zealand startups to hit that psychological valuation milestone in the past month – a sign that our fledgling AI start-up ecosystem is gaining momentum.

James is a former Shell engineer turned serial founder whose previous company, Yonder, was acquired by a US travel tech firm. Now he's turned his sights on a $40 billion slice of the global market research industry – one where 90% of spend still flows to people-heavy agencies like Kantar and Nielsen. 

His pitch: AI can do what took those agencies weeks to do, in hours, at a fraction of the cost, and with results in the hands of the people inside a company who actually know what questions to ask.

The pros and cons of synthetic data

In our chat, we get into the heart of what Ideally is doing differently. One of the most interesting debates in AI right now is the rise of synthetic data – building artificial personas to simulate how real people would respond. James makes a pointed argument: when the stakes are high, and you need genuine nuance, synthetic just isn't good enough. 

We also dig into what James calls "living data" – the idea that consumer insight shouldn't die in a PDF buried in SharePoint, but should be a continuously growing, queryable understanding of your customer base. 

And we talk about the SaaSpocalypse – that February moment when hundreds of billions were wiped off the value of software companies worldwide. Ideally sits squarely in that story: an AI-native challenger gunning for the market share of legacy research platforms and expensive agencies alike, with a usage-based pricing model designed to turn in-house marketers into researchers, rather than leave it to outside consultants.

This is a great example of how AI is being used to shake up long-established industries.

The Business of Tech is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and wherever you get your podcasts.

Market research has long been a privilege of the big end of town. Got $50,000 and six weeks to spare? Great, you can know what your customers think. Everyone else? Good luck.
That model is being dismantled, and a New Zealand startup is doing some of the dismantling. In the latest episode of The Business of Tech, I sat down with James Donald, CEO of Auckland-based Ideally, fresh from <a href="https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/we-couldnt-have-done-it-without-ai-ideally-raises-6m/G3UGK3SVYRED3AQY2VHRBQZLJQ/">closing a $16 million Series A</a> that values the company at $100 million.&nbsp;
Ideally is one of three AI-centric New Zealand startups to hit that psychological valuation milestone in the past month &ndash; a sign that our fledgling AI start-up ecosystem is gaining momentum.
James is a former Shell engineer turned serial founder whose previous company, Yonder, was acquired by a US travel tech firm. Now he's turned his sights on a $40 billion slice of the global market research industry &ndash; one where 90% of spend still flows to people-heavy agencies like Kantar and Nielsen.&nbsp;
His pitch: AI can do what took those agencies weeks to do, in hours, at a fraction of the cost, and with results in the hands of the people inside a company who actually know what questions to ask.
The pros and cons of synthetic data
In our chat, we get into the heart of what Ideally is doing differently. One of the most interesting debates in AI right now is the rise of synthetic data &ndash; building artificial personas to simulate how real people would respond. James makes a pointed argument: when the stakes are high, and you need genuine nuance, synthetic just isn't good enough.&nbsp;
We also dig into what James calls "living data" &ndash; the idea that consumer insight shouldn't die in a PDF buried in SharePoint, but should be a continuously growing, queryable understanding of your customer base.&nbsp;
And we talk about the SaaSpocalypse &ndash; that February moment when hundreds of billions were wiped off the value of software companies worldwide. Ideally sits squarely in that story: an AI-native challenger gunning for the market share of legacy research platforms and expensive agencies alike, with a usage-based pricing model designed to turn in-house marketers into researchers, rather than leave it to outside consultants.
This is a great example of how AI is being used to shake up long-established industries.
The Business of Tech is available on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and wherever you get your podcasts.

The Business of Tech: AI is eating market research

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/3ad4ad3a-c1fa-462b-9c4a-b441016d7926/transcript

Putting big tech on notice, with EU's envoy to Silicon Valley Gerard de Graaf

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