The Vision Pro launch

Dr Sarb Johal - first thoughts

Where does it fit in VR?

Don't say metaverse

That price tag! and non-Pro speculation

Eyes on the outside

The immersion dial

The dad at the birthday

A very early announcement

Unity share price jumped

Other WWDC news

Ben and Peter debrief

This week, Ben and Peter are joined by Apple watcher Dr Sarb Johal from A+ Report to talk about the biggest Apple product drop since the Apple Watch - the Vision Pro.

They ask what it will take for the device to catch on and who the actual customers could be.

Sarb shares what he expects to see for the future of Apple's attempts at mixed reality and why he thinks Apple's share price dropped in response to its 'spatial computer' launch.

Plus, they chat about the other news out of the Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC).

Subscribe on Apple Podcasts, iHeart Radio, Spotify, or wherever you get podcasts.

Reading list

This week, Ben and Peter are joined by Apple watcher <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@TheSarbJohal">Dr Sarb Johal</a> from <a href="https://www.youtube.com/@APlusReport/videos">A+ Report</a> to talk about the biggest Apple product drop since the Apple Watch - the Vision Pro.
They ask what it will take for the device to catch on and who the actual customers could be.
Sarb shares what he expects to see for the future of Apple's attempts at mixed reality and why he thinks Apple's share price dropped in response to its 'spatial computer' launch.
Plus, they chat about the other news out of the Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC).
Subscribe on <a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/nz/podcast/the-business-of-tech/id1686022906">Apple Podcasts</a>, <a href="https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1049-the-business-of-tech-114330718/">iHeart Radio</a>, <a href="https://open.spotify.com/show/5GUbfwoRfmX6sUzWq6PQQa?si=3d2371457d314589">Spotify</a>, or wherever you get podcasts.
<a href="https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/technology/the-business-of-tech-apples-big-vr-swing-with-dr-sarb-johal">Reading list</a>

The Business of Tech, hosted by leading tech journalist Peter Griffin. Every week they take a deep dive into emerging technology and news from the sector to help guide the important decisions all Business leaders make.

Issues such as cybersecurity, retaining trust after a cyberattack, business IT needs, purchasing SaaS tools and more.

New Episodes out every Thursday. Follow or subscribe to get it delivered straight to your favourite podcatcher.

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@businessdesk_nz

Proudly sponsored by 2degrees Business!

 

The Business of Tech, hosted by leading tech journalist Peter Griffin. Every week they take a deep dive into emerging technology and news from the sector to help guide the important decisions all Business leaders make.
Issues such as cybersecurity, retaining trust after a cyberattack, business IT needs, purchasing SaaS tools and more.
New Episodes out every Thursday. Follow or subscribe to get it delivered straight to your favourite podcatcher.
@petergnz
@businessdesk_nz
Proudly sponsored by 2degrees Business!
&nbsp;

The Business of Tech

Apple's big VR swing, with Dr Sarb Johal

“Never a dull moment” is how Wellington-based veteran consumer tech reviewer and commentator Pat Pilcher describes the year in tech after relentless product launches, an “utterly insane” Black Friday sales season and the “enshitification” of the internet, thanks in large part to AI.

In our final episode of The Business of Tech for 2025, Pilcher joins the show to break down the biggest trends of 2025 and what’s coming in 2026, from AI agents and smart rings to humanoid robots and the debut of solid‑state batteries.​

Apple, AI and the year of the fold

Pilcher starts with the elephant not in the room: Apple’s slow play on generative AI. 

“Every tech player and their pet poodle had an AI offering except Apple,” he said. “This is just crazy. This is a company that sets the trends that everyone slavishly follows, and they missed the bus on the biggest AI trend probably of the decade.” 

Yet he thinks there is method in the apparent madness, arguing that “stepping back… until they get a mature offering” may prove “quite sensible” in such a fast‑moving space.​

That patience, he predicts, will collide with hardware in 2026. Pilcher is convinced 2026 is going to be the year of the iPhone fold, following in the wake of foldables leader Samsung.    

AI slop, deepfakes and the S-curve of tech adoption

AI dominated 2025, working its way along the classic S‑curve of technology adoption. While an enthusiastic user of generative AI tools, Pilcher is blunt about the downsides, from “AI slop” filling Facebook, X and LinkedIn to academics “pulling their hair out” as students outsource learning to chatbot tools.​

With hyper‑realistic video models like Sora3and an election year looming, Pilcher says “the general public needs to be a lot more critical, a lot more sceptical – and they’re not”.

Pilcher chooses Cory Doctorow’s famous term “enshittification” to sum up a key, regressive trend of 2025.

“You subscribe to a service, it sounds fantastic and it’s only $5 a month. Three months later, it’s $25 a month, does less, requires more of your information and they can’t guarantee your privacy and by the way, your password’s been stolen,” he said.

Pilcher sees this as evidence that the business model underpinning AI is dubious, with companies investing “billions and billions of dollars in massive data centres” in a period of “geopolitical instabilities and macroeconomic instabilities”.

Silicon became “the new global currency” in 2025, from Nvidia’s dominance to Google’s Tensor processing units (TPUs) and China’s push to go beyond 40nm (nanometers) under US export bans. 

Smart glasses, smart rings and genuinely smart homes

If 2025 was AI’s year, Pilcher also thinks it was when home and wearable tech quietly levelled up. He rates Meta’s new Ray‑Ban smart glasses, which can describe what you’re looking at and translate signs on command. Future prototypes, he notes, combine wristbands that track “tendon movements” for hand‑gesture interfaces with augmented reality (AR) overlays that could do everything from lie detection in negotiations to live 3D navigation in unfamiliar cities.​

Smart rings are another sleeper hit, with Pilcher praising rings for being “unobtrusive” and “tiny” while monitoring health stats well enough to “tell you proactively when you’re coming down with a cold or a flu a week before you start noticing symptoms”. In his own testing, backed by a blood‑pressure cuff and digital thermometer, a smart ring delivered accurate results.

On the home front, Pilcher says the long‑promised smart home is finally here, thanks to the Matter standard, which means new gadgets “will basically work regardless if you have an Alexa, Apple, Siri or… Google Home”. 

EVs, robots and the 2026 futures

Pilcher also covers the post‑rebate slump in EV sales, the rise of value‑packed Chinese brands like BYD, and the misinformation around EV fire risks, pointing out how a petrol vehicle, not a battery, was to blame in a widely shared bus fire incident. 

Putting his futurist hat on, Pilcher talks about smart contact lenses with built‑in displays and gesture‑tracking bracelets that could make smartphones “look as quaint as a Model T Ford”, always‑on access to AR shopping lists and navigation, and the first serious wave of humanoid robots. 

With cheaper AI silicon and compact models, he “wouldn’t be surprised if in late 2026… humanoid robots become the next must‑have consumer electronics category for the well‑heeled”. 

He also expects to see the debut of solid-state batteries as an alternative to Lithium-ion batteries that power everything from laptops to EVs, expecting new breakthrough technologies to offer longer battery life and durability.

Tune in to Episode 131 of The Business of Tech, powered by 2degrees Business, for the full conversation with tech guru Pat Pilcher, streaming on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.

&ldquo;Never a dull moment&rdquo; is how Wellington-based veteran consumer tech reviewer and commentator Pat Pilcher describes the year in tech after relentless product launches, an &ldquo;utterly insane&rdquo; Black Friday sales season and the &ldquo;enshitification&rdquo; of the internet, thanks in large part to AI.
In our final episode of The Business of Tech for 2025, Pilcher joins the show to break down the biggest trends of 2025 and what&rsquo;s coming in 2026, from AI agents and smart rings to humanoid robots and the debut of solid‑state batteries.​
Apple, AI and the year of the fold
Pilcher starts with the elephant not in the room: Apple&rsquo;s slow play on generative AI.&nbsp;
&ldquo;Every tech player and their pet poodle had an AI offering except Apple,&rdquo; he said. &ldquo;This is just crazy. This is a company that sets the trends that everyone slavishly follows, and they missed the bus on the biggest AI trend probably of the decade.&rdquo;&nbsp;
Yet he thinks there is method in the apparent madness, arguing that &ldquo;stepping back&hellip; until they get a mature offering&rdquo; may prove &ldquo;quite sensible&rdquo; in such a fast‑moving space.​
That patience, he predicts, will collide with hardware in 2026. Pilcher is convinced 2026 is going to be the year of the iPhone fold, following in the wake of foldables leader Samsung.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
AI slop, deepfakes and the S-curve of tech adoption
AI dominated 2025, working its way along the classic S‑curve of technology adoption. While an enthusiastic user of generative AI tools, Pilcher is blunt about the downsides, from &ldquo;AI slop&rdquo; filling Facebook, X and LinkedIn to academics &ldquo;pulling their hair out&rdquo; as students outsource learning to chatbot tools.​
With hyper‑realistic video models like Sora3and an election year looming, Pilcher says &ldquo;the general public needs to be a lot more critical, a lot more sceptical &ndash; and they&rsquo;re not&rdquo;.
Pilcher chooses Cory Doctorow&rsquo;s famous term &ldquo;enshittification&rdquo; to sum up a key, regressive trend of 2025.
&ldquo;You subscribe to a service, it sounds fantastic and it&rsquo;s only $5 a month. Three months later, it&rsquo;s $25 a month, does less, requires more of your information and they can&rsquo;t guarantee your privacy and by the way, your password&rsquo;s been stolen,&rdquo; he said.
Pilcher sees this as evidence that the business model underpinning AI is dubious, with companies investing &ldquo;billions and billions of dollars in massive data centres&rdquo; in a period of &ldquo;geopolitical instabilities and macroeconomic instabilities&rdquo;.
Silicon became &ldquo;the new global currency&rdquo; in 2025, from Nvidia&rsquo;s dominance to Google&rsquo;s Tensor processing units (TPUs) and China&rsquo;s push to go beyond 40nm (nanometers) under US export bans.&nbsp;
Smart glasses, smart rings and genuinely smart homes
If 2025 was AI&rsquo;s year, Pilcher also thinks it was when home and wearable tech quietly levelled up. He rates Meta&rsquo;s new Ray‑Ban smart glasses, which can describe what you&rsquo;re looking at and translate signs on command. Future prototypes, he notes, combine wristbands that track &ldquo;tendon movements&rdquo; for hand‑gesture interfaces with augmented reality (AR) overlays that could do everything from lie detection in negotiations to live 3D navigation in unfamiliar cities.​
Smart rings are another sleeper hit, with Pilcher praising rings for being &ldquo;unobtrusive&rdquo; and &ldquo;tiny&rdquo; while monitoring health stats well enough to &ldquo;tell you proactively when you&rsquo;re coming down with a cold or a flu a week before you start noticing symptoms&rdquo;. In his own testing, backed by a blood‑pressure cuff and digital thermometer, a smart ring delivered accurate results.
On the home front, Pilcher says the long‑promised smart home is finally here, thanks to the Matter standard, which means new gadgets &ldquo;will basically work regardless if you have an Alexa, Apple, Siri or&hellip; Google Home&rdquo;.&nbsp;
EVs, robots and the 2026 futures
Pilcher also covers the post‑rebate slump in EV sales, the rise of value‑packed Chinese brands like BYD, and the misinformation around EV fire risks, pointing out how a petrol vehicle, not a battery, was to blame in a widely shared bus fire incident.&nbsp;
Putting his futurist hat on, Pilcher talks about smart contact lenses with built‑in displays and gesture‑tracking bracelets that could make smartphones &ldquo;look as quaint as a Model T Ford&rdquo;, always‑on access to AR shopping lists and navigation, and the first serious wave of humanoid robots.&nbsp;
With cheaper AI silicon and compact models, he &ldquo;wouldn&rsquo;t be surprised if in late 2026&hellip; humanoid robots become the next must‑have consumer electronics category for the well‑heeled&rdquo;.&nbsp;
He also expects to see the debut of solid-state batteries as an alternative to Lithium-ion batteries that power everything from laptops to EVs, expecting new breakthrough technologies to offer longer battery life and durability.
Tune in to Episode 131 of The Business of Tech, powered by 2degrees Business, for the full conversation with tech guru Pat Pilcher, streaming on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.

AI slop, smart rings and riding the S-curve: The year in tech and what’s ahead

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/d49f72ae-d84e-40ec-97fe-b3b50144e1cb/transcript

Drones have gone from hobbyist toys to decisive tools of war and essential infrastructure for industry. Few people have had a better vantage point on that shift than FenixUAS founder Dr Andrew Shelley. 

In the latest episode of The Business of Tech podcast, the economist and aviation specialist explains how a decade of incremental innovation has transformed uncrewed aircraft into platforms that can reshape modern warfare, agritech and even search and rescue.​

From DIY quadcopters to smart weapons

New Zealand’s first drone rules arrived ten years ago, when the technology was still rudimentary and often home‑built. 

“Pretty much every part of drone technology has improved,” Shelley said. 

Better batteries and lighter and stronger materials have almost doubled flight time, while mass‑manufactured airframes have brought the price of drones down. and far more capable sensors and onboard software. Other advances, such as sensor technology and onboard software, have flowed into features many consumers now take for granted, such as obstacle avoidance, rock‑solid position hold and follow‑me modes, as well as increasingly autonomous flight profiles.​

The Ukraine war, now approaching four years in duration, has been characterised by the use of drones by both Ukrainian and Russian forces. 

The changing face of warfare

Shelley recalled watching footage of a small first‑person‑view drone in Ukraine flying straight past a Russian electronic warfare vehicle “festooned with antennas” and striking the armoured vehicle ahead of it. The drone was trailing a hair-thin fibre-optic cable, allowing it to avoid radio jamming systems.

“To a certain extent, what we’re seeing in Ukraine is that the old is new again,” said Shelley, pointing out that the current generation of drones echo some of the cruise‑missile tactics from the early 1990s.​

Shelley traces a clear line from ISIS workshops that assembled drones from AliExpress parts, through Turkey’s TB2 Bayraktar successes and Russia’s use of DJI’s Aeroscope detection tools, to today’s battlefields where consumer‑grade quadcopters handle intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance and precision strikes. 

The West, he argues, has been complacent: “Turkey was leading the way with its Bayraktar TB2, Iran is clearly leading the way with its Shahed series drones and we are playing catch-up,” he said, pointing out that the US is now reverse‑engineering an Iranian drone rather than setting the pace.​

Artificial intelligence is only beginning to make its mark in commercial uses in New Zealand, but Shelley says the leading edge is already visible in applications like Christchurch‑based SPS Automation’s large agricultural drones. These systems can autonomously identify wilding pines and apply “a small amount of chemical herbicide” to individual plants, an approach he argues could transform conservation economics by reaching areas that are “almost impossible on foot” or too expensive to service with crewed aircraft.​

Agritech, data and the search and rescue gap

If the military implications dominate headlines, Shelley sees at least as much untapped potential in agritech and emergency response. He cites spray drones that can drop slug bait on vulnerable crops in muddy conditions where tractors would churn up soil and helicopters are cost‑prohibitive, turning marginal blocks into productive land. 

Pasture management is another frontier. Instead of consultants walking paddocks with pasture meters or towing instruments behind quad bikes, he expects drones to fly automated grids soon to map grass cover and optimise feed wedges across entire farms, backed by “clever software” to interpret the imagery.​

Search and rescue, he argues, is “one of the things we haven’t done well with”, despite New Zealand’s vast coastline, mountains and national parks. Shelley believes agencies need to change their mindset and accept that in bad weather or hazardous terrain, “we have to move into a mindset where we’re happy to lose the technology,” risking a $100,000 drone instead of a multi‑million‑dollar helicopter and its crew to find people in distress.​

Building a drone industry – and workforce

FenixUAS sits at the centre of the fledgling drone ecosystem, training over a thousand civilian and government operators a year, including the New Zealand Defence Force, and certifying many of the country’s advanced drone operators. That gives Shelley what he calls a broader overview of what everyone’s doing with drones than perhaps anyone else in the country, from agritech to infrastructure inspection. 

While firms like Tauranga-based Syos, and SPS Automation point to a growing UAV scene, he says the real bottleneck is software talent, with drone companies crying out for mechatronics and software engineers who can turn raw imagery into usable insights.​

Listen to Episode 130 of The Business of Tech podcast featuring Dr Andrew Shelley, streaming on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.

Your weekly tech reading list

The year the tech billionaires won (again) - BusinessDesk

Canaries in the code mine: what AI is doing to first jobs for Generation Z - BusinessDesk

ChatGPT’s New Internet Browser Can Run 80% of a One-Person Business - Entrepreneur

The Data on Self-Driving Cars Is Clear. We Have to Change Course - New York Times

AI-Powered Browsers Are Failing Badly - Futurism

China set to limit access to Nvidia’s H200 chips despite Trump export approval - FT

Australia's ban on social media for users aged under 16 comes into effect; platforms that do not comply risk fines of up to AU$49.5M - The Guardian

OpenAI Staffer Quits, Alleging Company’s Economic Research Is Drifting Into AI Advocacy - Wired

SpaceX to Pursue 2026 IPO Raising Far Above $30 Billion - Bloomberg

From Llamas to Avocados: Meta’s shifting AI strategy is causing internal confusion - CNBC

 

Drones have gone from hobbyist toys to decisive tools of war and essential infrastructure for industry. Few people have had a better vantage point on that shift than&nbsp;<a href="https://fenixuas.nz/?gad_source=1&amp;gad_campaignid=1732360732&amp;gbraid=0AAAAAC-8xKmr8JDk2OBUdJ22TOhJkids2&amp;gclid=Cj0KCQiArt_JBhCTARIsADQZayk9igemgEzMcLIJqf8MOTn41Wtizv76MZ9lRv3VNQvX4TTrpc4Xd8kaApIUEALw_wcB">FenixUAS</a> founder Dr Andrew Shelley.&nbsp;
In the latest episode of The Business of Tech podcast, the economist and aviation specialist explains how a decade of incremental innovation has transformed uncrewed aircraft into platforms that can reshape modern warfare, agritech and even search and rescue.​
From DIY quadcopters to smart weapons
New Zealand&rsquo;s first drone rules arrived ten years ago, when the technology was still rudimentary and often home‑built.&nbsp;
&ldquo;Pretty much every part of drone technology has improved,&rdquo; Shelley said.&nbsp;
Better batteries and lighter and stronger materials have almost doubled flight time, while mass‑manufactured airframes have brought the price of drones down. and far more capable sensors and onboard software. Other advances, such as sensor technology and onboard software, have flowed into features many consumers now take for granted, such as obstacle avoidance, rock‑solid position hold and follow‑me modes, as well as increasingly autonomous flight profiles.​
The Ukraine war, now approaching four years in duration, has been characterised by the use of drones by both Ukrainian and Russian forces.&nbsp;
The changing face of warfare
Shelley recalled watching footage of a small first‑person‑view drone in Ukraine flying straight past a Russian electronic warfare vehicle &ldquo;festooned with antennas&rdquo; and striking the armoured vehicle ahead of it. The drone was trailing a hair-thin fibre-optic cable, allowing it to avoid radio jamming systems.
&ldquo;To a certain extent, what we&rsquo;re seeing in Ukraine is that the old is new again,&rdquo; said Shelley, pointing out that the current generation of drones echo some of the cruise‑missile tactics from the early 1990s.​
Shelley traces a clear line from ISIS workshops that assembled drones from AliExpress parts, through Turkey&rsquo;s TB2 Bayraktar successes and Russia&rsquo;s use of DJI&rsquo;s Aeroscope detection tools, to today&rsquo;s battlefields where consumer‑grade quadcopters handle intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance and precision strikes.&nbsp;
The West, he argues, has been complacent: &ldquo;Turkey was leading the way with its Bayraktar TB2, Iran is clearly leading the way with its Shahed series drones and we are playing catch-up,&rdquo; he said, pointing out that the US is now reverse‑engineering an Iranian drone rather than setting the pace.​
Artificial intelligence is only beginning to make its mark in commercial uses in New Zealand, but Shelley says the leading edge is already visible in applications like Christchurch‑based <a href="https://spsautomation.com/">SPS Automation</a>&rsquo;s large agricultural drones. These systems can autonomously identify wilding pines and apply &ldquo;a small amount of chemical herbicide&rdquo; to individual plants, an approach he argues could transform conservation economics by reaching areas that are &ldquo;almost impossible on foot&rdquo; or too expensive to service with crewed aircraft.​
Agritech, data and the search and rescue gap
If the military implications dominate headlines, Shelley sees at least as much untapped potential in agritech and emergency response. He cites spray drones that can drop slug bait on vulnerable crops in muddy conditions where tractors would churn up soil and helicopters are cost‑prohibitive, turning marginal blocks into productive land.&nbsp;
Pasture management is another frontier. Instead of consultants walking paddocks with pasture meters or towing instruments behind quad bikes, he expects drones to fly automated grids soon to map grass cover and optimise feed wedges across entire farms, backed by &ldquo;clever software&rdquo; to interpret the imagery.​
Search and rescue, he argues, is &ldquo;one of the things we haven&rsquo;t done well with&rdquo;, despite New Zealand&rsquo;s vast coastline, mountains and national parks. Shelley believes agencies need to change their mindset and accept that in bad weather or hazardous terrain, &ldquo;we have to move into a mindset where we&rsquo;re happy to lose the technology,&rdquo; risking a $100,000 drone instead of a multi‑million‑dollar helicopter and its crew to find people in distress.​
Building a drone industry &ndash; and workforce
FenixUAS sits at the centre of the fledgling drone ecosystem, training over a thousand civilian and government operators a year, including the New Zealand Defence Force, and certifying many of the country&rsquo;s advanced drone operators. That gives Shelley what he calls a broader overview of what everyone&rsquo;s doing with drones than perhaps anyone else in the country, from agritech to infrastructure inspection.&nbsp;
While firms like Tauranga-based <a href="https://syos-aerospace.com/">Syos</a>, and SPS Automation point to a growing UAV scene, he says the real bottleneck is software talent, with drone companies crying out for mechatronics and software engineers who can turn raw imagery into usable insights.​
Listen to Episode 130 of The Business of Tech podcast featuring Dr Andrew Shelley, streaming on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts.
Your weekly tech reading list
<a href="https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/opinion/the-year-the-tech-billionaires-won-again">The year the tech billionaires won (again)</a> - BusinessDesk
<a href="https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/work/canaries-in-the-code-mine-what-ai-is-doing-to-first-jobs-for-generation-z">Canaries in the code mine: what AI is doing to first jobs for Generation Z</a> - BusinessDesk
<a href="https://www.entrepreneur.com/growing-a-business/chatgpts-new-internet-browser-can-run-80-of-a-one-person/500343">ChatGPT&rsquo;s New Internet Browser Can Run 80% of a One-Person Business</a> - Entrepreneur
<a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2025/12/02/opinion/self-driving-cars.html">The Data on Self-Driving Cars Is Clear. We Have to Change Course</a> - New York Times
<a href="https://futurism.com/future-society/ai-powered-browsers-failing">AI-Powered Browsers Are Failing Badly</a> - Futurism
<a href="https://www.ft.com/content/c4e81a67-cd5b-48b4-9749-92ecf116313d">China set to limit access to Nvidia&rsquo;s H200 chips despite Trump export approval</a> - FT
<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2025/dec/09/australia-under-16-social-media-ban-begins-apps-listed">Australia's ban on social media for users aged under 16 comes into effect; platforms that do not comply risk fines of up to AU$49.5M</a> - The Guardian
<a href="https://www.wired.com/story/openai-economic-research-team-ai-jobs/">OpenAI Staffer Quits, Alleging Company&rsquo;s Economic Research Is Drifting Into AI Advocacy</a> - Wired
<a href="https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-12-09/spacex-said-to-pursue-2026-ipo-raising-far-above-30-billion?embedded-checkout=true">SpaceX to Pursue 2026 IPO Raising Far Above $30 Billion</a> - Bloomberg
<a href="https://www.cnbc.com/2025/12/09/meta-avocado-ai-strategy-issues.html">From Llamas to Avocados: Meta&rsquo;s shifting AI strategy is causing internal confusion</a> - CNBC
&nbsp;

How cheap drones became the defining weapon of modern conflict

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/7784f840-c291-422a-924b-ad9000bbad71/clips/76eb9da4-6dff-45fb-8c0f-b3ae0156ad67/transcript

In the creaky world of financial advising, where compliance paperwork devours hours and clunky software feels like a relic from the dial-up era, a New Zealand startup is deploying AI to free advisers from the drudgery. 

Marloo, co-founded by Hardy Michel, who cut his teeth as head of operations at Wellington-based share trading platform Sharesies, isn't building robo-advisers to supplant humans.

Instead, he is using artificial intelligence to free up advisors so they can focus on the trust-building conversations that truly matter to their clients. In the latest episode of The Business of Tech podcast, Michel shares how his London-based venture is already winning paying customers across four countries, proving New Zealand fintech can scale globally from day one.

Relocating to London in 2022, Michel joined Estonian-founded investing platform Lightyear, helping it launch across 22 European countries amid regulatory mazes far more complex than New Zealand's. 

"I felt like I'd really rounded out probably the missing piece of my knowledge and learning, which was kind of how do you build the machine at scale?" Michel told me.

Freeing advisors from low-value admin

That experience, combined with angel investing via Blackbird Ventures, convinced him to co-found Marloo with fellow Sharesies alum Shakeel Lala.

Marloo’s mission? Financial advice is potentially transformational but inaccessible, the founders realised. Advisers spend 70% of their time on low-value admin, from anti-money laundering checks to 50-page suitability reports that gather dust. 

Existing tools are clunky, with Michel describing the "Windows 95-esque" systems financial advisors had to choose from before Marloo arrived on the scene. Marloo offers a hyper-specialised AI note-taker for client meetings. Unlike transcription tools, it sifts through hours of chit-chat to extract the 5% that counts – goals, risk tolerance, fees – and structures it for compliance or client follow-ups.

From there, the AI evolves into a full operating system, turning advisors into "reviewers, not doers", Michel said.

Finish a meeting, and Marloo drafts an annual review letter in two minutes, 95% ready for a quick edit. 

"You no longer have to take notes after the meeting, have a second person in the meeting taking notes for them, or rely on anything else other than our product," Michel explained. 

The result? Advisors onboard more clients without burnout, firms cut outsourcing costs, and the human element, crucial for navigating life's emotional money milestones like retirement or inheritance, stays front and centre.

Giving robo-advice a wide berth

This augmentation ethos sets Marloo apart from robo-advice hype. "If robo-advice was kind of as good as it was cracked up to be, we'd all be using it right now. And the reality is we're not," Michel told me. 

He predicts regulators will be reluctant to green-light fully AI-driven advice, given the trust factor. Instead, Marloo aims to overhaul unit economics: lower fees, drop minimum balances (now often $500,000+), and make quality guidance available to more than just the wealthy. 

"The mission is [to] transform the underlying [profit and loss]  in the unit economics of what it means to deliver advice to a customer so that we can actually reverse that," he said

Marloo recently raised NZ$4.6 million in pre-seed funding to accelerate development. 

"We're going to raise a little bit of money to answer a true false question in 12 months... that we are confident we can spend the next 10 years working on this and it's going to be a massive business," he recounts of the Blackbird pitch.

As AI bubbles inflate, Michel warns against shiny tech without substance. 

"It's never been easier to build... [but] also... to deliver a really shitty product experience," he said. 

Marloo, he added, prioritises delight – a consumer-grade user experience in a B2B world. For an industry pricing out everyday clients amid rising fees (up 6% in the UK last year), this could be the reset financial advice needs.

Tune into episode 129 of The Business of Tech, powered by 2degrees, for the full conversation, where Michel dives deeper into Estonia's entrepreneurial edge, Sharesies' early battles, and why financial advice must stay human-powered. Available now on all major podcast platforms. 

In the creaky world of financial advising, where compliance paperwork devours hours and clunky software feels like a relic from the dial-up era, a New Zealand startup is deploying AI to free advisers from the drudgery.&nbsp;
Marloo, co-founded by Hardy Michel, who cut his teeth as head of operations at Wellington-based share trading platform Sharesies, isn't building robo-advisers to supplant humans.
Instead, he is using artificial intelligence to free up advisors so they can focus on the trust-building conversations that truly matter to their clients. In the latest episode of The Business of Tech podcast, Michel shares how his London-based venture is already winning paying customers across four countries, proving New Zealand fintech can scale globally from day one.
Relocating to London in 2022, Michel joined Estonian-founded investing platform Lightyear, helping it launch across 22 European countries amid regulatory mazes far more complex than New Zealand's.&nbsp;
"I felt like I'd really rounded out probably the missing piece of my knowledge and learning, which was kind of how do you build the machine at scale?" Michel told me.
Freeing advisors from low-value admin
That experience, combined with angel investing via Blackbird Ventures, convinced him to co-found Marloo with fellow Sharesies alum Shakeel Lala.
Marloo&rsquo;s mission? Financial advice is potentially transformational but inaccessible, the founders realised. Advisers spend 70% of their time on low-value admin, from anti-money laundering checks to 50-page suitability reports that gather dust.&nbsp;
Existing tools are clunky, with Michel describing the "Windows 95-esque" systems financial advisors had to choose from before Marloo arrived on the scene. Marloo offers a hyper-specialised AI note-taker for client meetings. Unlike transcription tools, it sifts through hours of chit-chat to extract the 5% that counts &ndash; goals, risk tolerance, fees &ndash; and structures it for compliance or client follow-ups.
From there, the AI evolves into a full operating system, turning advisors into "reviewers, not doers", Michel said.
Finish a meeting, and Marloo drafts an annual review letter in two minutes, 95% ready for a quick edit.&nbsp;
"You no longer have to take notes after the meeting, have a second person in the meeting taking notes for them, or rely on anything else other than our product," Michel explained.&nbsp;
The result? Advisors onboard more clients without burnout, firms cut outsourcing costs, and the human element, crucial for navigating life's emotional money milestones like retirement or inheritance, stays front and centre.
Giving robo-advice a wide berth
This augmentation ethos sets Marloo apart from robo-advice hype. "If robo-advice was kind of as good as it was cracked up to be, we'd all be using it right now. And the reality is we're not," Michel told me.&nbsp;
He predicts regulators will be reluctant to green-light fully AI-driven advice, given the trust factor. Instead, Marloo aims to overhaul unit economics: lower fees, drop minimum balances (now often $500,000+), and make quality guidance available to more than just the wealthy.&nbsp;
"The mission is [to] transform the underlying [profit and loss]&nbsp; in the unit economics of what it means to deliver advice to a customer so that we can actually reverse that," he said
Marloo recently raised NZ$4.6 million in pre-seed funding to accelerate development.&nbsp;
"We're going to raise a little bit of money to answer a true false question in 12 months... that we are confident we can spend the next 10 years working on this and it's going to be a massive business," he recounts of the Blackbird pitch.
As AI bubbles inflate, Michel warns against shiny tech without substance.&nbsp;
"It's never been easier to build... [but] also... to deliver a really shitty product experience," he said.&nbsp;
Marloo, he added, prioritises delight &ndash; a consumer-grade user experience in a B2B world. For an industry pricing out everyday clients amid rising fees (up 6% in the UK last year), this could be the reset financial advice needs.
Tune into episode 129 of The Business of Tech, powered by 2degrees, for the full conversation, where Michel dives deeper into Estonia's entrepreneurial edge, Sharesies' early battles, and why financial advice must stay human-powered. Available now on all major podcast platforms.&nbsp;

The Kiwi fintech startup hacking the admin hell out of financial advice

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