The Breakfast ClubINTERVIEW: Kerry Washington Talks 'Shadow Force,' NAACP; Tyler Perry, Producing Vs. Acting, Unprisoned + More
The Breakfast Club Sits Down With Kerry Washington to Discuss 'Shadow Force,' NAACP; Tyler Perry, Producing Vs. Acting, Unprisoned. Listen For More!
Wake that ass up in the morning.
The Breakfast Club.
Yes, since the world most dangerous morning show to Breakfast Club, Charlamage the God just's hilarious. Enva's not here, but Lauren LaRosa is filling in, and we have the legend the icon living Carrie Washington here.
How are you carrying?
Good?
I'm happy to be here, always good when I'm with you all.
Yeah, what's your energy like this morning?
I feel good, I feel centered, I feel grateful. Yeah, I'm curious.
Did you have an intention this morning when you will go?
I didn't state an intention when I woke up this morning, but I woke up with a lot of gratitude.
Amazing, Yeah, amazing.
What's the gratitude for?
You know?
I feel like this is gonna sound so cliche, but I'm very aware lately. Maybe I'm trying to cultivate more awareness lately that as much as things are challenging in the world, like I feel like the circumstances in the world are tough at the moment for a lot of people, but also two things can be true. There's so much of my life that is truly answered prayers. I know when I wake up that the career I have my marriage, my children, my health, that like I am living, I'm walking in prayers answered.
This is a time for I mean, it always never a time, but I want people to return back to God in this moment. I really because if you are a person of faith and you got to believe, everything truly does happen for a greater good, right, or at least for some reason that we may not understand.
I do believe that I do.
I think that I try to remember though, also that that faith is not just about being like handing your power over that. For me, faith is about listening for God's will, which is also pointing me in the right direction toward action. Right Like faith is not just about like sitting back and saying like other people will do or somebody else will provide.
It's also about like, how can you use me today?
Lord?
Right?
How can I be of service today? How can I show up? Because faith isn't just about being inactive, It's about like really stepping into your purpose, your responsibility.
Action? Is that your word for this season? Since you're in shadow for.
I do you know? It's funny.
I feel like the last time I was here may have been to talk about my memoir Thicker than Water, And it was when I was writing Thicker than Water, I was.
Making this movie.
And so there was like an awareness of a strength that was growing in my life, like an emotional strength, a spiritual strength with my family. And I feel like the film allowed me to put that in my body, like in my cells, to be like, what does fierceness really look like feel like on me?
Not that I know that.
Thinking about back to that conversation, I can I've seen a movie, so I can kind of see what you're talking about. Yeah, but did you ever think that you would be taking on because this is your first action film, you'd be taking on action in your career in a role like this.
So I mean, I'm just gonna be honest with you. I did an action film twenty years ago. I was Angelina Julie's best friend and mister Missus Smith and I got to like climb that mountain with Angelina and shoot some guy and I was like, I love this.
I loved it, so.
Yeah until I then, I like my career kind of took a different turn, and I was doing drama and TV and movies and comedy. But I'd never had a chance to do action again, and I really wanted to, so my production company, Simpsons Street. When Scandal ended, I was like, we need to find a great action film. And when I read this one, I was like, this is it because I feel like my favorite action films are the ones where you know why the explosions are happening right where you care about the characters, where there are real emotional stakes, and so I felt like to have a big This film is like a crazy, big ass, splashy action adventure, but at its heart, it's about love. It's about family, It's about the sacrifices you make for the people that you love the most. It's about what it means to be a parent, and like I think most parents know what it feels like to be like I would go to the ends of the earth to protect this child. But if you are a trained mercenary.
Like my character and kill people for a.
Living, what does that look like to really do whatever it takes to protect your little black boy Joy?
What was the training like at this point in your career for this action film versus that first action film.
I don't even remember the training for that one, And you know, maybe because I'm older or just it was so new.
For me, but this was intense. It was great.
I mean there was a lot of just weightlifting and pilates even just to get in shape to be able to.
Learn the choreography.
And then there was stunt training and weapons training because we're not just shooting guns where loading guns, were cleaning guns, where there was the fight choreography. I mean it was hours and hours of training.
Did you not a bust your gun before? No?
I didn't.
Yeah, yeah, I mean I had done a little bit, but I really and on all different kinds of guns and I'm a really good shot.
Didn't make you want to own one.
It didn't make me want to own one, but it made me grateful that I could use it if I needed to.
Absolutely. Yeah.
Was it ever challenging?
What part of it was ever challenging?
The shooting was not challenging. Weirdly, it was weird like that it came. I mean, I have a one of our targets that I'm framing for my office that I got like a bullet in each eye, like crazy. I don't know why I'm such a good shot, but I'm I'm not complaining. I think the physical, like learning the martial arts especially because a lot of my fights were.
With people much bigger than me.
So to learn how to fight Omarci, who plays my husband in the film, who's the actor of many of You may love him from Lupin or Lupin if you're saying it the French way, but he's so much taller than me, and so to figure out, like what is my fight approach to be able to take him on was fun.
I'll be honest with you. Sounds very tiring, like what was the recovery project? Like a lot of pacts.
Are while you're yeah at all, But I loved it.
I mean it's it was useful to have a husband at the you know, my husband who was a former professional athlete, to be able to kind of help me through some of that.
But I love that.
I love challenging myself physically, and I love working out. I love getting into the body of the character. So it was exhausting, but I also felt, I don't know, I was really proud that when my kids would get up on a Saturday morning, they would come downstairs and see mommy like with the boxing gloves on, kicking ass and the driveway with my trainer, Like there was something really exciting about that.
Does the role like this help you to express your shadow side war?
I think so.
I definitely, like I've I think my go to personality. I'm much more of a lover than a fighter. I'm not a person who likes to argue. I'm not really combative.
I'm not.
I'm not avoidant, but I'm definitely not an aggressive person.
So this did help me tap.
Into a level of anger and aggression and courage more than anything.
Ooh, courage. That's why courage.
Because I think when you put yourself in situations where you can get hurt, it requires you to face those fears and you know the It's funny. I was talking to Omar because he's French and our word courage comes from the French word gul, which means heart. So it's really about like having a strong heart, a capacity to challenge your heart.
That's interesting because I was thinking about something earlier, like what do you think your characters have taught you that no human being our real life ever good?
M I mean, I'm lucky because every time I play a character, I get.
To learn her greatest lessons.
So it's almost like reincarnation in this lifetime, like I get to learn what she learns and then fold it into my life to move forward. A lot of times, what characters remind me, they remind me to be grateful, you know, Like for this film in Shadow Force, it's really about what it takes to protect the people you love from the systems that want to cause you harm, which I think is very relevant right now. But this couple, they used to be part of this spy unit. You know, they were trained killers together, they broke the rules, they fell in love, I got pregnant, So now we have to go on the run to protect our kid from the very unit that we used to be a part of, the Shadow Force unit. So for me, the film is about, like, when there are systems that don't want you to have freedom and love and joy, what do you do to fight those systems? And I think that's a great lesson to be reminded of right now. It's a great question for all of us to be asking ourselves right now. You know, Like I too, as a mom, want to protect my black boy joy. I want my son to hold on to his joy in the face of a world that may not be invested in his liberty and strength, and so that for the film. The film is a great reminder also, these two mercenaries, you know they have to separate. I kind of back off from the family to try to protect them from Afar, and Omar plays the dad. It's this beautiful. It's such a perfect date movie because the action is beast but Omar also plays. He's doing the primary parenting of the dad, and that image of a black father who's so like locked in and present is so beautiful in a film. But part of what they learn is about partnership, Like, if you're lucky enough to have a partner in parenting, you are so much stronger when you lean into that partnership and in that partner could be your spouse, could be your sister, it could be your mother, it could be your stepdad, it could be whoever is part of that village. But leaning into that partnership and parenting.
Is also a gift.
So I think I walked away from the film feeling so grateful for my partner, for my kids, for our safety, for our willingness to fight for our joy no matter what's happening in the world.
I was going to ask you, because there's a lot of different scenes, don't want to get a move you away. I know, I know the first scene that stood out to me where I was like, I think, this is what I'm feeling. I'm feeling like she's fighting the fact that like this is a good man and he loves your son and you as much as you think he does.
Just let him do it.
Oh you got it, girl.
When y'all were at the gun range.
And don't give no, and y'all y'all had the back and forth there and you left and his shot was perfect, and I was like, man, it talked about a lot about how men have to sacrifice in family and relationships versus how women have to do.
It and how we feel it.
Yes, and now we come together because you really kind of twisted the gender norms in this film where the woman is out there working protecting from Afar, trying to you know, not just bring home the bacon, like bring home the dead bodies, to protect this family. But he's even though he's badass and strong, he's also like the more sensitive parents. He's like really present. I was talking to my girlfriends, like, to me, there is nothing sexier than watching a man be a good dad. It is just like so beautiful, so I just love that we're kind of playing in those gender norms and asking people to challenge your idea of even what family looks like today.
Did that cause any conversations for you at home with your family of like, Okay, here are some things that you know, I want to I don't know, let you do. Let you I'm gonna I'm gonna lean and allow you to do. Because that was like the biggest thing.
It's like, yeah, I don't know that the film caused me to have those conversations in my marriage. But I think one of the reasons why the film really resonated for me is because I do really understand the value of the partnership that I'm in, and I really do have you know, I love parenting with my husband, you know, I love our marriage, and I love how we are a team with these kids, and both are really important. Like to cultivate the time to just be a couple and then to cultivate the time to pour into the family too.
All of that is just so important.
So when I read the script, I was like, Oh, this just feels so good to see black love portrayed in this way. Black power like they are so badass, but also to see black love sort of explored in this way.
You play so many different roles, like when you go home, how do you remain rooted?
And who Carrie Washington is.
Yeah, I have rituals that I do at the end of the day, like a lot of times, you know, a lot of times I'll play a character, for example, who's married to somebody else, right, And so for me, when I take off my wedding ring and put it back on at the beginning of the end of the day, that's a small ritual that grounds me and who I am because it's such a big part of who I am and how I walk in the world. And I just I have like ways that I close out the day because in the beginning of my career I used to try.
To live in these characters all day long.
But when you get married and have kids, You're like, I don't need to go home and be sharing my shadow self with people that don't deserve that.
Or need that. So I try to really create containers.
You know.
Some of that has to do with the hair and the makeup. When I take off the costume, I just try to leave what needs to be left there. It's not always perfect there's You know, I'm a person who thinks a lot about the work even when I'm not at work, but I do try to make sure that I'm as present as I can be with my family because they deserve that.
Have you ever bought a home and called you your man the wrong name?
Characters has called you the characters now?
No?
No, okay, no no no.
I feel like I got to say congratulations to you too, because the six triple Late received the Congressional Medal, Yes, honor.
I feel I feel like.
The Netflix series Louten Nicole Avon and Tyler Perry, I feel like that amplified that story.
That was our goal.
You know, when when Tyler and Nicole came to me with that project, it was so clear to us that this story needed to be told because these women needed to be celebrated, and that the most important thing was that we made a movie that really resonated with people, so that no one would ever forget these women existed and what they did, the sacrifices they made for this country, and the courage they had to do what they did.
So the fact that it like broke records.
It was Tyler's biggest film ever on Netflix, that fifty million people watched it in the first few months, like it was just an insane success for the platform. And I'm really proud of that because what that says to me is that at a time when our history is so under attack, that that is a story that cannot be taken away from us, and that we understand our role to do good and to make the world a better place, and that has been a part of the history of this country forever.
That feels psychologically to see the same administration has taken so much from us to also reward the six triple late.
I don't know if it was this administration that made that decision.
It happened prior to.
Speak, yeah, yeah, yeah, But I would just say, whoever gives them their flowers, they deserve their flowers. It doesn't make me say that the other decisions they're making are okay, right, Like they don't get a pass because they've done this one thing. These women deserve to be honored and celebrated despite whoever is in power at any time.
And then the NAACP Image of work moments.
But thank you to Tyler Perry, congratulations actress motion picture for us.
And then we also won Best Picture, which was so proud as an executive producer of that film.
Yeah, the movie was perfectly cast to Oh my god, all those girls.
It was.
As a producer, I was really proud to be introducing all of that young talent, all those incredible young black actresses to the world. They were so amazing and in shadow force too. I mean Julia as a producer when I when we audition Omar and I auditioned Julia, who plays our son in the film, I mean, he like.
Steals the movie.
He's so adorable and lovable and he has to be right because every explosion, every kick, every punch is for him, so you have to fall in love with him, and he's so good.
And then method Man's in the film Divine Joy.
We were lucky we got her before her fancy Oscar. But the cast is incredible.
It's stacked.
Randa, I love. Yeah.
I wanted to ask you when the NAACP image of word moment happened, where you think Tyler Perry again? And then he posted online talking about how that brought him to tears. Y'all talked after. I'm sure was it an emotional conversation?
It was because again, like we don't you know we had just made this film to give flowers to eight hundred and fifty two women in heaven and three who were still with us, to honor their sacrifice and their service. And he was like, I'm so grateful that you take that you took the time to give me my flowers now right, we can't wait for people to go to say how great they are. We need to let people know in the real And I didn't. I just didn't know that I had thanked him twice.
I blacked out. I really really.
Really did not think I was gonna win, Like I told Nandi to stay home, like, you know, gotta come to this baby, Like I knew.
I knew that Cynthia Rivo was winning that award year she was nowminated for an Oscar.
I'm such a crazy, wicked fan, like I voted for Cynthia, so it was amazing. I really was shocked, like like Beyonce Album of the Year shocks, Like just couldn't believe that that had happened. And then when I got up on stage, I blacked out, so I didn't remember having said him, and the idea when I was walking off stage that I may not.
Have said his name was so devastating to me. I just blew up the whole show.
I love that though.
I love that level of gratitude, you know what I mean, because I feel like a lot of people who don't do that.
Why was that so important for you to do in that moment? Like I have to make sure, I think.
I think because Tyler's been such a support for me throughout my career. Like at a time earlier in my career where I was like I'm done acting, I don't think I want to do this anymore, he called me to be in for Colored Girls beautiful film, and I got to work with so many of my heroes, Whoopy Goldberg and Felicia Rashad and Loretta and Devine and Janet Jackson and Anica Noni Rose, a young Tessa Thompson. Like he's been there for me even when I've struggled, like in my career with paparazzi and fame. He's provided safe spaces for me. He's a confidant, he's an advisor, he's a real friend.
And to come to me with this role, I just.
Thought this was an extraordinary gift to be able to play Captain Charity Adams, a woman who was so inspiring and so heroic. It really felt like the gift of a lifetime to be asked to step into this process with him and co produce with him. So I want, I just it was I couldn't imagine not thinking.
Him, Well, what are the biggest lessons you've learned as a producer as opposed to things you learned as an action?
I guess the thing I love most about producing is when you're an actor, you really are sitting around waiting for somebody else to give you an opportunity to do what you love to do. Right, Like you're like, please, somebody hire me, Somebody invite me to your party, Like I just want to play, I want to hang out.
I want a seat at the table.
But when you're a producer, it's that thing of like, if you don't have a seat at the table, build your own table, Like I get to build my own table now, and because it's my table, it's the table I know I want to be at, and I do not build a table for one. So to have a table where I know thousands of people are getting to work and to pursue excellence and chase their dreams because of what we're doing at Simpson Street.
That's such a gift.
So I think as a producer again, it's really about, like, how can I be of service, not just to find the projects that I want to do and tell the stories I want to tell for me, but also like, I'm so proud of our show Reasonable Doubt, which we're shooting in Atlanta right now.
Season three, Desperate Housewives, Yeah I make Yeah.
So we're really like we are creating lots of opportunities not just for me but for other people, and that I love to be of service.
How do you go ahead? I was gonna ask, how do you pick what you get involved in or choose to do? Because the Desperate Housewives spin off it's like twenty years later. Yeah, were you a fan of the show or like, how what's.
The fact I love the show? I'm a huge fan of the show and that showrunner Mark Cherry. I just I thought it's just a great time. Like some of the issues of that show, the idea of like living a life of perfection where everything looks good but underneath there are secrets and desires and complexities that we're not talking about. Like that still resonates, So I thought this was a good time to to think about how would that show exist now? Who would be in that cul de sac now? Because it looks different now than it did twenty years ago.
I see people not happy about that though. I saw some backlash. It was like, we don't want a new cast. I think they're trying to say we don't want to adversity. I think that's what it really say.
I was thinking, I mean, some black neighbors, we'll see, we'll see.
Do you even when you hear stuff like that, does it does it deter you in any way?
Like?
Is that a project I want to touch?
I'm open to feedback.
I think it's important to have your ear open to criticism. But I try to only give real power to people who are in the game right like I don't. I don't really take criticism to heart from people who I don't admire and respect.
Damn, you can't even get.
From outside.
I have to like you and and like how you're living and right you're doing and what you're creating to feel like you have a say on what I do. But I'm very open. I'm a very collaborative person. I'm very open to feedback. I love getting like, I love directors who challenge me, who make me be better, who ask tough questions. You just have to be careful with your energy and not give it to haters.
So just the random folks on social media you like whatever?
No, I mean you I again, I think you have to stay aware.
I think anytime you just dismiss human beings is that's not healthy because everybody matters. Everybody's a child of God. People's voices matter, people count. But you just have to for me, as I'm weighing input, I have to make sure that I don't give my power away.
Question.
When when you were doing scandal, right, Yeah, the scandal seemed very absurd.
You think about the government. When you look at the government now, you like, what like Seanna couldn't even write.
This, Wow, it's wild.
What would Olivia Pope do right now if she was part.
Of his government, which I don't think she would be part of this government. I don't think she would have or she wouldn't serve this administration.
Even to be a spool who sat by the door like the.
That's an interesting twist. Maybe Shonda would write that kind of version.
Yeah, I don't. I really this administration.
Is beyond what I can wrap my head around right now. And so I'm really really trying to pivot my focus on most days to how each of us can show up to participate in this process in ways that really matters, because I think we got here because too many people feel like they don't matter, like their voices didn't matter. I think if more people understood the power of their vote, we wouldn't be where we are.
When did you realize When did you first realize people were watching you not just as an actress, but as an as a leader.
Oh that's a good question. I don't know.
I think I've always been a little bit of a you know, I started my act division work when I was a teenager, so I've always been a person who's kind of been an artist but also tried to be of service.
But I don't know.
I don't.
I don't.
I mean, even as you said it, I was like, Oh, I guess people do think of me as a leader, but I don't.
That's not first in my mind. I don't think about it in those terms.
Yeah, interesting, I would say, even politically like people they I don't know your character of course, because of you know, living pope, but even politically, like people look to you to see like who you're talking about, why you're talking about, on what you're doing, what you're not doing. You got off a X at one point, I did, Yeah you took a break.
I saw you post that as well. Are you back now?
No? No?
No, no, right no.
But it's a synonymous with Olivia Popen who you know what I mean? The show and that was Twitter.
Yeah, that was an ex.
Twitter was made our show, part of what it was, the culture on Twitter and black Twitter. But X is a different place now. The neighborhood has changed. I don't want to live there.
You moved.
I'm not in that neighborhood anymore. I don't agree with the leadership. You want to talk about leadership like, I don't agree with the leadership there. I don't agree with how the conversations are happening.
It's not okay. It's not as safe a place as it used to be.
And it was never entirely safe, but now it's like the wild West and there's a lot of misinformation, and so I don't want to be at that party.
I'm glad you use the word safe because you don't seem to play it safe. But you have just like huge career. A lot of people in Hollywood want to play it safe because they don't want to impact their career. Why do you take that?
I guess risk is the word.
It's interesting because I even at my company, when we talk about culture within the company at Simpsons Street, we often don't say like we want to make.
Sure this is a safe space.
We try to say we want to make sure this is a brave space, because it's not about safety. It's about truth and having the courage, being brave to say the things that need to be said so that you can move everybody forward. Safe is about like tiptoeing eggshells working around people. It's like no, no, no, no, no, let's be real, Let's tell the truth, Let's be kind. But I think is kind?
Was there a brave story you want to tell right now?
Especially being like I said, they keep taking a lot of things from us, So I feel like art is going to be the only way to educate and inform.
I was just at the Brooklyn Artists Ball last night at the Brooklyn Museum and they were honoring Darren Walker, who's an incredible leader, and he was saying that artists hold such important meaning in the culture right now because artists are like a mirror up to society. I'm really proud of Shadow for us. I really I love this film. I feel like theaters are back, Like I'm so excited about Sinners. I'm obsessed with that film is so beautiful. I feel like this is another like really exciting film to see in theaters because the locations are gorgeous and it's not a lot of cgi Like this is real people doing real stunts, putting our bodies at risk. I'm excited to be in community with people telling stories about the power of black family and black love and black parenting and black kids and.
Community. You know. Yeah.
And then I'm starting a series Simpsons. Street is producing a new series for Apple called Imperfect Women that we start in a couple of weeks. We're filming in LA So I'm really excited about that project to us with Lizzie Moss from Handmaid's Tale, and that's also really about like truth, you know, and.
Booked and busy trying.
I love that.
And I'm excited that we're shooting in La you know, because we need that after the fires, there's we really need for more production to be happening in Los Angeles, So I just finished doing a film there and now we're starting this series.
Are your role as Alicia masters and fantastic?
I haven't been invited to, but you can put that out there.
I do want to do more action films. I really feel like doing Shadow Force was so fun, and I think it's exciting to work in that way, to be to take on strength not just intellectually and emotionally and spiritually, but physically.
How was Carrie Washington staying grounded not just in this high pressure industry, but as you said, and just this crazy ass world we're living in right now.
I think therapy is a big part of it. Therapy is a big part of it. I think wellness practices like my workouts are everything, hydrations, sleep. I have really been trying to center sleep this year. My doctor has been like this, this has to be number one. So those are I mean, I think those are the big ones. And then just you know, staying connected to the.
People who I feel like really love me for who I am.
You know, people I feel closest to you do a really good job of like on social not on X but there are the socials for your fans, like, we always feel really connected. When Unprisoned was canceled, we heard it from you first, which doesn't normally happen a lot of times. The talent involved is like, we didn't even know that this was happening, But you were honest. You said that you guys were disappointed that it wasn't coming back.
Why, I thank you for bringing that up, because the interview that you guys did with Della was so special. So he's amazing supporting actress so great. So I mean, it's one of my favorite interviews he's ever done, and so thank you for having him on and for supporting the show. I mean, it's one of the gifts of being a producer, right is a lot of actors, a lot of talent don't They don't know when decisions are being made. But as a producer, I get to be in the room even when it's disappointing.
News that I don't want to hear.
And I feel like the fans deserve that because everything we have is because people show up and watch.
You know.
I'm very aware that the life I live is because of the people who have shown up to support me throughout the years, and I'm really grateful. So I try to treat that relationship with as much respect as possible.
Could I ever tell you why, Like when these things don't.
Yeah, they do.
You know, sometimes it makes sense, sometimes it doesn't, and sometimes we don't see eye to eye about their reasons.
So you know, she's so pleasant for me.
It's like, that's why we have to keep That's why you just got to keep creating. Like the biggest way to heal heartache around creativity especially is to just create more. You just got to get back in there and take more risks, tell more stories, stay stay vocal.
Well, thank you, Queen carry Washington.
Always a pleasure when you pull up Shadow Forces in theaters on May seconds Friday.
No no, no man, all the.
Okay, Mother's Day weekend.
That is the That's that's what you need to take your mother to go see Shadow Force.
Carrie.
Thank you for joining us, Thank you for having me.
It's a pleasure. Breakfast Club, wake that ass up in the morning. The Breakfast Club
