The Breakfast ClubBest Of Full Interview: Jaleel White On How Urkel Saved 'Family Matters', Black Hollywood Dynamic, Bullies, Bulges + More
Best of 2024 - Recorded November 2024 - Jaleel White On How Urkel Saved 'Family Matters', Black Hollywood Dynamic, Bullies, Bulges. Listen For More!
Wake that ass up in the morning.
The Breakfast Club Morning.
Everybody is tj Envy, Jess, Hilarrys, Charlamagne the guy. We are the Breakfast Club Laurna Rosa filling in for jests. And we got a special guest.
In the building.
Yes, indeed we got Jalil White.
Welcome.
What's up Cat? How you feeling man, I'm doing great, man, Man, good morning.
Good to see you, but we'll see you. Brother. You got your new book, Growing Up ercle a memoir?
Why you do the eighties nineties R and B cover on the front bro sevent take.
Early eighties, early eighties.
That's the Mike jacksonsest widest post.
You know. I did it because for anybody.
Who's a fan of the Stefan character, they know that he was debuted in a white suit.
I said that when I first thought, I said, this is the fund he.
Was debuted in a white suit.
And then I love having fun on Instagram anyway, and Instagram has that meme that has all four of the of the greats.
There was like Luther vandrus H Litt.
Of Ritchie, Teddy Pedagras, Michael they all. Michael actually hit it last, but of course he hit it the biggest, so for a black man in the eighties or born around that period, when you put that picture on the front, it just means, hey, the contents are fire, but nobody even notices.
On the back, I actually you jumping around.
Yeah, And on the back I give you the high water pants and the aircle shoes and nobody even noticed you don't.
Got the glasses on, Rob, So you don't mind being constafont you know, it's.
Not even about mind.
It is Stefan saved my life. Like just black women everywhere just choose to call me to it.
When when he.
Walked in out, I was like, oh my god lit up when you walked in. Does that happen to you all the time? And you were like yeah, because when you walked in, I instantly remember you walking on the screen and be like, oh shoot, like I heard the music and everything that.
That is wat the music and ill you know, I love it.
They with black women in particular, but on the twenty four episodes out of two hundred and fifteen that I did, they only keep it on Stepan and they would just relieved that I wasn't really like that.
I've always loved your story though, because you know you already epitted me of you know, taking advantage of a moment. He's an opportunity, right because you were so only supposed to be on one episode?
Yes, how did that.
Happen again, Charlamagne?
I was I was just a black kid in one of the saga Jenzys. So it really wasn't that deep. My dad told me that I could get one of anything whenever I got a job, because I was resisting going on auditions at this point.
I was five foot four of me was ready to play basketball.
We all get in basketball talks at some point, and I really wasn't. I wasn't booking jobs at age twelve too much because a lot of the stereotypical roles I just wasn't fitting it.
My profile had.
Like I said at Braces, I'm five foot four and I saw this audition come through and I was like, I can get this job.
What was it? What was it? What did it say?
The description I included in the book was just, you know, nerdy character. As a matter of fact, I was described as a Rick Moranis type. So that just shows you what the writer's room was already doing. The cast of a black kid and asking for Rick moranis type. So I actually read that literally, and then I went and got the Best of Saturday Night Live VHS tape that we had in our house, and I found Ed Grimley and I.
Basically was doing a black kid's version of Ed Grimley.
And it wasn't really a good impersonation, quite frankly, but because nobody thought that was my inspiration, it became it became mine.
You can't trade mark, uh.
I don't want to say a character, because I'm sure you can trade our character, but the mannerisms of a character voice?
Did I do that? Do you know what I mean?
We only think about this stuff in America?
Man, did you get the second genesis? I was just always curious, did you.
Want to act?
Acting was just something that I just did naturally, been doing this I was three, So you know, did you want to do anything that.
Your parents got?
You started when you were three? It was just it just came naturally. I didn't resist it, and I enjoyed it.
Of course. You always joined and enjoyed getting a day.
Off of school to go someplace and and yeah, exactly and have some fun. But as I got to be around the age of twelve, I didn't really want to act and were I wanted to play play basketball. But once I got the show, then I started getting reps in at a different pace, right, And now, once you get reps in, you prove yourself good at something proficient. Like I remember the exact episode where I'm like, oh, this is fun and this audience is my toy. And the episode is called the Big Fix where I took Lower on a date for the first time because Eddie needed to pay off a bet and I leveled this French restaurant.
Now, before we get.
To yeah, that's the first episode where I'm like, I can hear the audience different. I can see it in my eyes when I watched that episode.
Before we get into that part of it, Is it true that you tried out for Rudy Huxtable that point?
Yeah, I did the root, that's what aint.
Rudy was poor boy.
Oh wow, it was poor boy.
So there was a debate there, and you know, he obviously went out over the network at the end and h and.
Keisha got the role.
And how did you get.
Oh, it came down to me and her.
That's it.
They auditioned us all day.
I actually never forget that audition because they brought in They always bring in.
Like two or three options for each role. But they put us in one.
Room for like several hours and kept pairing us and going in and out. And I talk about that book as well, and and then at the end they said, hey, listen, we are pressed for time, so we will take you. You, you, and you and the rest of you. Thank you for coming out. So you had all these crying kids just pouring out of that building that had been there all day.
And I remember my mom was like.
She just had a huge reaction to that. She was like, do you ever react like that to losing an audition?
Again?
Oh?
Every I mean, that's a cold way to lose a job when you're seven years old. Did you really understand it to be picked right in front? And I've been right in front because generally it happened. You know, your agent will call you or your agent didn't call you. And my mom was never the type to call the agent also and be like did we or did we not get the job?
And a lot of parents do that.
But did you really understand at seven years old, like, oh my god, I'm losing this job? This is like what this could be. You were just like a kid and it was like no, So you cried, like what did you think?
No, Well, we were supposed to move to New York, so they were.
They had already talked to my parents through our agent and everything, and my dad was trying to figure out because he was just graduating from dental school at the time. My dad was trying to figure out how to do this from New York. They had practically said the job is.
Yours, and then a little girl came walking.
I mean, they do that kind of stuff all the time now that I am adult and I know that, but at the time, it was just it was just very shocking. And then you've become a big fan of the show, right, so you're looking at the.
Show and it's like, oh man, that could have been me. Right, you're doing that, but that passes too.
Especially when you end up with your own iconic role in the future.
Right.
I didn't even look at it that way, seriously, I just during that time, Sean. I mean, I'm telling you, man, it's it's wild to watch fame now because everybody kind of believes like they can have a famous moment and it should come easy to them. But back then, like you know, if you got a chance to meet Magic Johnson, you got a chance to meet Chaddie Jackson in person.
They were inaccessible. They were all talented, they were you know, they there was an aura. Literally.
I remember the time I met Michael Jordan for the first time and he crept up behind me at the Magic John's in Midsummer Nights Classic, and it's just like he literally had like this little glow around him, this black Jesus glow around him, and and it's different now, it really is.
So you didn't think you could be that, you see what I'm saying.
Now, I don't think that. I don't think there is real celebrity now.
Oh now, no celebrity has completely been deluded.
Yeah, it really is.
I'll disagree and say, there's still some people who have it.
I can you know, I can see it.
There's some people where they walk in and they have that natural it factor where it's like, yeah, okay, you just you affect the room, you know what I'm saying. Like even when Will Smith used to come in for the NBA All Star Games, Like when Will was in the room, it.
Was just different.
That's just aura though.
Yeah, that's exactly so. But that's but that's traditional celebrity this stuff. Now, like I said, it's just it can feel real temporary and it's like you ain't got the it factor, but.
But you got the light on.
You did the cast like you because you went from just supposed to be one episode to taking over the whole thing.
So did they like it?
There had to be some resentment a little bit. It's like a kid nerdy kid coming in there.
Like I said, it was, it was weird at first.
The kids and I we worked it out the easiest because they had to hear a lot of things that some of their parents are even saying. And you know, when you're a kid and you're hearing what your parents are saying, you're just gonna follow suit with that.
But Darius and Kelly and I and we became we became like brothers and sisters. You know, it's that's our puberty.
So I just feel like the division really kind of took place more along the lines of the adults were the adults and the kids were the kids.
Do you think that it was weird during that time like that you knew, like you were very well aware as a kid that like you were becoming the star of the show, but you had to do so much stuff to kind of like not act like you knew that. Like even in the book you talk about like how the the introductions were on the show, and your agent would always be like, we need to rearrange these introductions because you're the star.
The world knows you're the start. And you'd be like, no, let's not my mom.
My mom didn't want to do that.
My mom wanted to keep a lot of things status quo. When it came to the call sheet and just pecking order, it.
Just it would have it would have just disrupted the balance of the set to another degree. Why that we didn't need.
It's it's almost kind of like, all right, you ever noticed like Shack runs out last? You know what I'm saying, When Shack and Kobe ridden their prime, but then towards the end, Kobe starts running out last, and that's around the time when they broke up too.
It's just like there's there's ego, there's little ego.
Things that just can happen on the set that you have to ask yourself, is that the sword I want to die on?
Is it worth it?
You would think that at some point in life, people would understand that y'all are a team and it doesn't matter who the star of the team is if the team is winning.
Yeah, but the magic words you say is you would think yeah, yeah, but I would it.
I mean, after all of these years, we haven't learned that. Even when you use the Shaq and Kobe.
Example, like that's you know, you can't change the way people are going to think when when they're coming from a place of ego. You know, for me, I just there was I did a lot to extend our run because the reality was.
She was about to get canceled.
I know, but in fact.
I get it, I get it, but I'm like, I don't you can say that I don't need to to to lean in on that, you know, but you know, whether if it was keeping my hair to cut the same way, I mean, it got to the point where I was sick of my own haircut, or staying out of the gym, not working out, you know that sucked, and playing basketball.
And finally in my scene, they made you change the pants.
Yeah, they made me change in the final season, it was like, no more jeans. He doesn't wear any jeans, So I was doing things.
That was.
I read that about to get mess.
It was your bolgn't care.
I mean, he wants to talk about your bag. I want to be I want to you said coming.
I was getting there. I was gonna let me finish the statement. You jumped to the bulge, you.
Jumped on down.
It's being work it out, come to the package. It's crazy, y'all. Don't get to sit here.
He gives it off.
He's waiting for that.
It's back to the bowl.
They James.
Bottom line, they just said no jeans in the final season.
Oh they didn't tell you.
Why they said no jeans in the final The ball. The ball can tell you that.
They said it was getting a littlewkward to see the bult. That's what the Coult said.
Jesus, they said no jeans in the fun Do.
They come to your parents and say that or did it come directly to you know?
At that point, I mean, come on, I'm on setting, I'm taking I'm getting notes from producers, and you know.
That that's a funny ass note to tell somebody.
That's an uncomfortable notetry. I feel like you said that in private, like you pulled my family to the side. And we have a very closed discussion.
Talking about your son's boat.
Wild.
So so things changed on the set because you didn't have a dressing room. Now, I'm sure you got the biggest dressing room and all that. So how was that change?
Money? Money change?
Well, the thing about money, which was cool, is that my mom was so petrified the show would get canceled anyway that she never bought a new car for the first.
Four seasons of the show. You know, my mom was that.
I think that's why I'm so passionate about the protective job that my parents did.
Uh.
They did so much to try to keep me attached to normal life. You know, they didn't get new cars themselves. My mom demanded that I went to public school.
I went to public school during.
The entire time, but we didn't but we didn't have cell phones. We didn't have all we had cell phone but they were big bricks at that time, but we didn't have smartphones to invade the privacy to that degree and let everybody know what school he goes to, at least on a nationwide level. So you know, I would pop into school like every two weeks to three weeks, and you know, that was something actually enjoyed doing kind of like a magic trick. And you know, I could I could go in and I could take tests, I could raise my hand, I could answer answer questions from the teacher, and my peers are looking at me like, how do you know this stuff?
It's like I study on set too.
How was school? It was it a did you ever get bullied? Because people look at you?
And now that's the whole there's a whole thing.
It was like the first school I was attending at the time, I was the only black kid at the entire school, which was awkward to it was it was it was half Asian, it was half white, and now it's sense taking over all Asian. When I'd go back and past that school and uh, you know that's all, you know, the usual stuff.
Can I touch your hair?
And you know, not getting invited to Bob mitzvahs and all that kind of stuff. And then that all changed as soon as I got on the show. Hey, you want to go to a Laker game with me? And you know, my mom wants your agent number. She's thinking about putting me in the business. And now I'm suddenly so popular. Uh So I left that school and I went to what I like to call like, you know, the Joe Clark School, the lean on Me Light and uh and in that in that case, I was just I stood out a little too much and it also raised hand too much. And I had a teacher that liked me, and I liked miss Last of the too, and you know at schools like that, they don't like those kind of relationships.
So ran into problems there. And then uh, my mom found.
The school that was the porch that was just warm enough for me and in three bear story analogy and and that was South Pasadena High School. And they kind of had to sprinkle everybody. It was Asian, it was Mexican, it was black, it was was wonderful. And I had a great principal named Ben Ramirez may he rest in peace, who just you know, kind of went out of his way to make sure that I was always welcome on campus.
They didn't like the fact that your teacher was trying to make sure you were okay. What do you mean, like you said that the school you had a teacher that no.
No, no, I'm saying at hood school, you can't you know, raising your hand a lot ins and having a great relationship with the teacher the kid.
Yeah, okay, yeah, exactly.
Question like the last class you see again, you wasn't too many.
You know you're not gonna play me like that.
I wasn't asking the teacher to collect the home Okay, I wasn't that.
I wasn't reminded if we had that.
But bottom mind is we had a good relationship and she was teaching stuff I'd already learned at the other school, so.
They were hella behind the other school. So I was just like, this is easy.
I'm saying, come on, I'm in the eighth grade. You know what I'm saying that that's.
It's awkward exactly exactly.
But did you wish you got that treatment? I remember? Do you remember the first time I met? No, you don't remember.
I don't remember.
That's when you have to remind me Cam Nicks Cam now Nix. Haven't remember so much about.
Madison Square guard the Knicks camp. He was a Nicktam and I was surprised because I don't remember. We were young, young, But I was surprised because I'm like, at the time, he's Steve Verkle, He's on the biggest I'm like his parents.
Put him here so why would he remember you.
I'm gonna tell you, well, I don't know.
I told you anybody could get it for nothing.
I was, I had the glasses the braceist to say, but you were actually enough?
Was I love saying this dynamic because I don't should ever take this person.
I was, you know.
The classes and races I was. Let me have you out.
Any black man who didn't even look like me is if he wore glasses, he was called stever.
That's true.
They called me metal mouth and who bunch of things. But I'm not going to that trump. But the reason I say that is during basketball cap you got into a fight. Did scrabbed with out some Spanish dude?
Right? And I would remember.
I was like, damn, is this happened all the time when you come to the hood because people think that you're better than them.
I was wondering if that always happened?
Well, when you hoop in like people try you. You know what I'm saying. So it's like I took basketball seriously. So in between those lines, that's why I'm like, I don't even remember.
I was there to play ball.
Fights did you get into if you don't remember.
On a basketball court, I didn't. I didn't have a history of getting into a bunch of fights. But I'm just saying, like, you know, on a basketball court, people don't try you. I mean, do you remember every frankish you gotta do on a basketball.
I kind of do.
Yeah, oh wow, I kind of remember.
And that means I probably did pretty good. And whatever we was.
Doing, So what did you and all the others mans kids do? And saw eating up like nobody can get.
Get a meeting?
He started seeing, he's going, I'm going with my people.
Which way was? Where was you? I was work right, all right?
You know anothering that you're talking, But you didn't tell me how I played though, Now you was?
You was good.
You were surprisingly good because everybody because everybody thought the nerve was gonna come out, but she was good. We could let you play boy, but I remember you.
Scrapping what point guard position you play?
Point?
Okay?
So, because even in your book you talk about having your dressing room kind of like set up like dress room.
My dress room was cool, addressing you.
Really wanted to go to the NBA like that was like.
Really it was about going to nb I was a huge me Listen, if you grew up in the nineties, the NBA just this was different.
Man.
It landed on your life. Man, it was it was everything got you.
So I you know, once I started gaining some influence, you know, you could do certain things. And the set decorated for our show transformed the second room in my dressing room into an actual NBA locker room. So I had all the different lockers and you know that's where I would change and get ready for the show.
Wow, you know, did you get paid? Did you make money money back then?
You know you had, you made very good money back then.
But the numbers back then just they don't compare it to numbers now inflation. It's one of my favorite things I actually have. Is is my first time I ever said on the court.
I kept the ticket stub and I kept.
Them with magic shoes when he gave them to me after the game, and every now and then I'll just I'll still look at those of ticket stuff. Guess how much In nineteen ninety one, the face value of a Laker game on the court was versus San Antonio Spurs.
Three fifty price maybe close to a thousand, maybe seven hundred, eight hundred.
This man knows basketball for twenty five twenty five. That's crazy, right, and so yeah for a floor.
So that so when you put that in perspective, nineteen ninety one, four hundred and twenty five dollars face value on ticket to sit on the court, and you see what inflation is now, it really is like I remember that, teaching me about inflation was like WHOA, something's happening here because there's two inflations. There's the one they talk about to the country, and one they talk about is going on with the people that's making all the money.
I love how you described throughout the book. You describe yourself as a dedicated people pleaser. You said it was your mom who made you that way. Can you expound on that a little bit?
It can?
You know, it can be good and bad to be a people pleaser because you got to learn how to say You got to know how to set boundaries, but then you got to also learn how to say yes enough to catch blessings that are coming out of nowhere. But for me, it's always been about the audience. Experience that jacked me up. You know, we take in front of a live studio audience every Friday, and man, I look forward to that audience like you wouldn't believe, and they just become your toy after a while. So, you know, my mom will call me after a table reading, you know, every Tuesday, and it's like, what do you think of the script this week?
And was like, eang, it's okay, you know.
And then there would be certain weeks like the Bruce Lee week where I'm like, oh, no, get your tickets now, because sometimes she would have to play games to get a certain number of seats, and especially with another opposite, another executive producer's wife, who would hog a lot of seats and I'm like, no, no, no, go ahead and get your tickets for this one. I'm gonna melt this one down. So it was just always about just you know, everything celebrity came from a different place than it was about being excellent. It was about being on point.
You know.
We would shoot our show and we'd be done with the whole episode in like just over two hours, and I was so proud of that because everybody else on the lot, especially if they had kids on their show, it would take you know, shows would take three and four hours and people wouldn't even be able to see the end of the show at times.
But we were now two hours flat. We were done. So I'm just so proud of that that kind of stuff.
What about Julia when he's not, you know, performing, are you still dealing with being people pleasing?
No, not as much. You know, when you have a we have a daughter. At least when you have a kid and you enter the family dynamic.
A lot of your values just changed. They shift overnight, at least they did for me.
It was the biggest thing. They shifted for you overnight.
Oh man, I got a funny story on that one.
No.
Actually, when you know, when single parents don't date, like single parents prospect, they don't.
They don't date. It's different.
And I remember my boy was he told me to come out and meet him at the club. You know, he had a he had a group. At this point, I'm single to ad and and I hoped in my car and at the time I drove asked to Martin Repeat, which is at a four door, And so I pulled up at the end and he comes walking over with three girls and it's like, yo, what we're doing?
This is before Uber? All right, it is before Uber? What were doing? Where we headed?
And then one of the girls just reached for the back door, and the baby seat was in the back and the way them girls just jumped back and all this it just threw off the whole chemistry for the rest of the night. And it was just like, ah, okay, what matters More? As a dad, I knew, I'm like, I'm not taking a baby seat out. It's a painting the butt putting them down baby And any dad who has a baby knows that.
So it was like, well, that's just the way it's gonna be.
But that was a moment where I had to accept where I was just kind of like, she really comes first in every aspect of my life now, and uh, like it or not, even in times when I want to be grown and sexy, it's going to affect it.
You know what I wanted to did the cast members on Family Matters?
What they was?
It a level of hate and jealousy and envyous vianus inbianus, envenous are vious.
Yeah, it was, you know what I mean, your chance to get him.
Are in hindsight? Were you really difficult to work?
No?
Absolutely not, you know because Reginald Johnson said that.
Okay, but okay, so let me make it easy for you. Then, how come how come you never heard that from the kids? Kelly speaks, There is everywhere everywhere.
How come you never heard that?
Again?
You know it's it's you know, when you when you leave a show.
First of all, the difference between movie starting and TV start is when your movie start, you still a star, even if you don't have a movie out. When you a TV star, unless you're on TV, you're not a starting. And that's just the way the business treats you. So I think people go through a lot of personal traumas sometimes after a show has gone off the air, divorces, investments, maybe they go right, et cetera, et cetera, And it causes people to look back on things with, you know, kind of a jaded look.
And it was like, man, we had fun.
We did.
Even the pictures I picked out for the book. You know, I wanted to show pictures of us chilling.
You know, I wanted to.
Show me Reggie and Darius, you know, chilling in Paris when we shot two episodes in Paris.
We're the only black show to ever shoot in Europe. That was a big deal. You know, we had this.
I'll never forget we had this giant twelve thousand dollars meal at the top of an Eiffel Tower.
As a cast. Oh, I'm glad you asked.
My mom took that bill and handed the production because she had the cloud to do that. But Joe Burry's there, Reggie's there.
Well, we was balling at the top.
But again you balling, So you know, it's almost kind of like when you hear Scotti Pittman talking.
About the Bulls.
Now, it's like, Scotty, you can't say nothing nice about the bulls, you nigga, he was rock stars.
You and Mike didn't kick it at all. You should That's how you remember it.
Have you recently talked to any of cats, because I know Joe Marie pay and like she had come out and said that you guys had a little whatever that situation to each other. Yeah, Like, can you first of all clarify that story because that's just a wow.
No, there's just there's nothing to clarify. Like I I'm talking about a coworker of over thirty years ago and I was a minor.
You don't think if there was any validity of that, they wouldn't have come out.
I'm like, Wow, so nothing happened.
I mean, no, but I'm not I'm not getting in it back and forth.
I'm sorry, I'm just doing too good getting it back and forth, you know, with a woman who's over seventy and I've been kind of like mentally ingrained to not fight with my elders, Like, all right, if that's the way you saw it, cool, it is what it is.
Well, she recently said on the stage I think where I forget where they were at, but the cast was there and you weren't there, and she said that, like, you know, she wished that you were there, and if you were there, she would hug you.
And she kind of you know that whole thing. So have y'all talked or.
Why does what she have to say hold so much more validity than what my other cast members have to say.
I'm just curious.
I think, Oh, I think that the age thing does play a factor, but what you say, you know what I mean, I think that definitely plays a factor as well. But I think she's one of the first people that alleged, like the bad stuff that I saw come out and be like, man, we should just hug it out. I wanted to know it made me wonder like, have y'all talked, like what changed?
So the people that I talked to regularly is Kelly and Darius, And again I don't call them Laura Eddy, So I you know, I called Kelly about this book. You know, we spoke extensively, and you know, Kelly called me two weeks ago. But it's weird for us, by the way. Also when we go out and eat or anything like that. You know, we like little back rooms and stuff like exactly if people saw if people saw me and Kelly just at Crustaceans in Beverly Hills, and what it tends to turn into a big Hey, can I get a selfie fest?
So you know, damn work on one. Gotta So you.
Know, we we keep it private. But I have a very good relationship with all the cast members who've ever wanted a relationship with me beyond the show.
And I don't have anything negative to say about Reggie.
When people ask me who is your favorite scene partner, I'm like the chemistry I had with Reginald vel Johnson.
I remember the episode where it clicked for us.
It's called box Car Blues, when we were stuck in the train together with all these cows and Steve is just getting on his nerves. And you know, Reggie just couldn't look at me without breaking up, without you know, without breaking character. And we just we developed this amazing chemistry. But adults are adults.
And they're going through adult things too. And also I'm a kid.
So you know what, I'll tell you one way, maybe I could have been annoying. I dribbled my basketball everywhere everywhere.
If I was in school, did you let me? We need you all? Said Boomo boom basketball basketball basketball.
Adults get annoyed when a kid is just dribbling and bouncing the ball all over the place. Is that difficult? How old you that talk about thirteen? Fourteen years old?
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I would feel like adults would have a little bit more Greace.
I'm approaching it from a very self self aware, you know standpoint.
So I'm like, okay, yeah, no, that's and I.
Remember Joyce Web, one of our script supervisors, be like, oh here it comes with a basketball, just like okay, you know, Like, but if that's that that translates twenty five years later to being difficult, I'll take it.
I want to talk about your first kiss.
Talk about your first kiss, because everybody would be getting arrested and nowadays if that.
Was so because he's a guy, Oh and only they don't do that to guy exactly.
So break down your first kiss sixteen years old on set.
He's ahead of me on this one.
No, we had a we had a scene man, where you know, Steve and Eddie get hot at the dice table and they're rolling the dice and uh, this woman, you know, he's supposed to give me a kiss, just playing one on me before my last dice roll, and uh, during rehearsals all week, she had just pretty much given me a pack. It was just a pack, yeah, because you just go through the motions. But with that hot live studio audience there, man, she just yo, she gave me the whole she bang.
And so when.
I pulled back and this was your first time because you look, yeah, I had never kissed.
The girl, I said, how did you know what to do?
No?
I didn't. I wasn't. First of all, I wasn't even planning for that.
I know you're supposed to put your lips together, but I didn't know that anything else was really supposed to happen to that I wasn't I wasn't seasoned, it was, and so she does it, and my whole my thinking at the time was, do not break character, do not ruin a good take.
You know, that's what you just kind of.
Taught as as a comedic actor and as a kid. And so when I went to my dressing room, I just kind of involuntarily tears start coming down my face because I was just like, that was weird. And then my dad corners me and he's like, what's wrong. Exact the producer comes back, like what's wrong? And I was just like, you know, like she put her tongue in my mouth, surprised your mother and one, you know, so funny. Everybody says that, but it was like my father was present and was dealing with the issue, so there was no reason to inject. And once it was revealed what happened, they all started laughing.
Moment my dad's my dad left.
No, do not find this woman, do not troll this woman at all. No, I'm serious, because it's like, that's one of the things that I'm very protective of is, you know, we have to embrace what double standards were, leave them in the past.
But it's okay, like I can laugh at it.
I'm saying, like from the time that it happened to my dad and the executive producer coming in to me walking back out on stage to do now the next scenes, even the hot the crew high five, she put it on you, young fella. You hung in there, you did your thing, and it was like, it was very clear to me. All the signals that I was getting was that might have been yucky the way it went down, but apparently I'm going to get a lot more of that.
So Cheesemo says, yeah, okay, all right, go with the flow.
What about the trauma you went through, because it was immediately after that scene they told you that you can't wear pants anymore?
You know what I see, I see how you do it. I see how you can be here.
You know what else I want to know? Was Black Hollywood more of a community back then?
Ah?
Could you tell a story in the book about you know, connecting with Malcolm Jamal warning and putting you in the afternoth commercial and you know your mom being.
Your mom being a fan of Malcolm. So I don't know if he.
Was the extent the extent to which Black Hollywood was putting each other on. I won't say was more of a community. Uh, they are specific people who put a lot of people on, Like Ice.
Q put a lot of people on, absolutely.
Like that dude, Just like John Singleton put a lot of people on, like he identified talent. That's really the dream I kind of have for myself because I picked that up back then, of being able to recognize other talent and be like you got it, you got it, and that that's a pay it forward joy that's separated apart from from actually being the focus. But but back then, because there was just a lack of you know, cell phone communication and social media wasn't what it was. The connections were made more organically.
You know.
You you wrote a number down, you gave it to somebody, you know, and.
Yeah, so I will say that, I will say it was just I don't know, it was different.
I'd helped me out on this because I feel like we connected the community.
It definitely was.
But I'm saying to the extent that I could count on somebody having the power to give me a job, No, no, not not that at all, But to the extent of walking in the room and seeing to Sheena Arnold and Tisha Campbell and they're.
Like, jeh, yeah. It was like okay, yes, yes, absolutely, you know.
And and there was also a sense of like like being a part of an exclusive club, you know what I'm saying. It was like you didn't walk into a room and see another black TV star and just sit at your table and just be like, oh, he's over there. You typically were gonna get up and you were gonna you know, you were gonna greet each other, address each other, probably exchange information.
Was that because there wasn't a lot of people, like it was just like you guys with a cream and the crop.
It wasn't a lot.
It wasn't even like there was you know what we're missing now is everything is niche program, so.
Very few people are always talking about the same thing at the same time.
Like today, all anybody's talking about from a cultural standpoint is Mike Tyson's ass cheeks because we all saw that at the same time, so you know exactly. So it was like even the step Fan moment where it was just like a lot of black families saw that at the same time when it airs, so they calling each other on each other. The girl you got to see him in his white suit. So it's a different connection back.
There, man. And I'm like, yeah, special.
Do you get tired of the Steve Rkle character, because I'm sure people have to come with you all the time and be like the same line.
Well in the book, you say nothing makes you happier, and when somebody recognized you as Julil.
Well, that makes me happy, you know when that happens. And I kind of got saved by millennials. You know, the Google A has helped me, It really has. I can hear tone and I try to talk about that in books. So you know, if a Southern grandmother comes up to me and and she's you know, referencing a character, that doesn't bother me as much as compared to some guys in a bar who you know, they're having a sausage fest in the corner and we're doing well over here, and they want to bring light to that, and okay, I see what you're doing now. That's Those are two completely different things in terms of being tired of the.
Characters that we're doing well over here.
Basically, we got all the ladies, every single lady in us, all right, you know what.
I'm saying, So that that that that that that part is obvious, what the dichotomy is there. But people come up to me for a variety of different reasons. Man like your man outside, he was just like, yo, I know about the ericle stuff, but I'm here for Sonic.
He's a I did the voice of Sound of the Hedgehog.
For one hundred episodes and that lands hugely with a lot of people. I did two episodes of Psych that people just love those two episodes of Psych. So for me, it's a conveyor belt of people acknowledging me for different things. And as you get older, like I said, well, my focus being on my daughter, I'm a game show host. Now I'm just like, look as long as you pleasant and you chill, and you respectful of my family and my environment. I just love being known for a good reason, because in this day and age, you could be known for a real sucker reason any day.
Like it's wild the sucker reason you could be known for.
You know, it's interesting what you said, even about being a black people all can coming down on one moment because I think about that even with you as a star, right, like you have to be a certain caliber star for us to know your real name, right, You know what I'm saying, like like for you, for you to play earcle so well that we know who Jalil White is. That sys a lot.
I appreciate you know What's crazy though, For a long time, maybe because I was so young, I didn't know that Jelil White was your real name.
I thought that that was another person I did, but I was so young.
I consed, I thought, and.
Then I knew the ste fine, And when I started hearing your little White, I'm like, oh, maybe this is another persona that he's taken off.
And then I got old.
Enough to really understand like characters and like not being really you and like all that, and I was.
Like, oh, okay, that was just like a me moment.
Yeah, but I'm just glad the light went on, thank you.
But speaking of.
Right, you got the n.
My al dollar that was back and I'm dad okay. Speaking of though, I know in the book you talk about the meeting that you had with the exact about the remaker, the spin off, the reboot, your version that you wanted to happen, in my opinion, was way better.
I don't know if you want to say it. We want people to read the.
Book, but it was way better than what they had.
Pitched to you.
We are I mean, I guess we have to talk about it because I want to know that.
Will we ever get that?
And can you?
Could you do that on your own?
Listen, First of all, you can't do it on your own.
You know.
That's the thing about television that people have to respect. It's you know, it's the it's the only art form I feel that still has gatekeeping, still very much in place, and you can either be bitter about it or you can fight the good fight and look for the person that's gonna be your champion.
That's just it is what it is. I was never offered a reboot.
I always want to make that very clear, and even my vision for the show that I have, it's not about me. It's about three dimensional characters that would actually resonate and translate.
In twenty twenty four.
Because I worked for the producers who coined the phrase jump the shark. Fonsie jumped the shark.
He jumped over a shark.
Right, those are my producers, the exact same producers. So you're not going to invite me to jump the shark again. I was offered a blind contract and half my pay of what I got for the last episode, and there was no consideration.
I mean, there was no consideration given to the.
Adults that actually, you know, have such a large opinion over what terms they would return to.
I'm like the way they were being.
Discussed was, well, you know, Harrod and Carl will come by and they'll visit the new family every now and then, Like Hollywood doesn't really they engage talent when they need talent. They pay talent, and they need talent. And this isn't even a black thing. I don't want this to turn into a black thing. I'll hear guys like Chris Pine or whatever, who's you know, He's like, I don't know what they're gonna do next with Star Trek, Like I love playing the character. But when they called me, they called me so I'd love the opportunity to make the show that that I envisioned. That was never turned down, It was never pitched. I was just offered a blind contract and around that they were going to develop the reboots.
There were two versions, though, correct me if I'm wrong, right, because you said one of them you wanted to do, like what's the Netflix show with the kid, the little kid that we followly super smart, Yes, young Sheldon.
Oh yeah.
There was one version that was kind of going to be like the young Sheldan from like a different perspective. And then there was another version where it would be you and now you're an adult and you are in a relationship, but then Myra is still around at that point or something was there.
I'll simplify it. You know.
I really feel like it could be like a young rock to be quite honest. The only difference is, you know, imagine if they're young Rockets started off famous and then gets into reality. You know, you still want to keep it light, you know what I'm saying. But I just I just if you do a half hour comedy, where are the story's gonna come from?
You know what? You they literally just choose to make it up back in the day, you know.
And they would take stories too, from old sitcoms and Happy Days whatever. They dust them off and they just you know, update them a little bit. You can't do that in twenty twenty four. You're gonna watch for one episode and you're gonna turn that off. I asked a reporter recently. I said, well, in the traditional reboot that everybody thinks that they want where Steve and Laura get married and have a kid that's just like hercle.
Would you watch that? And he said yeah.
For about four minutes, I said, Okay, thank you for being honest with me. If I do anything, I am an advocate of kids. I see exactly how young performers get derailed. I want to push the agenda. I want to push the legend for a kid to come play a future version of me, whatever that turns out to be. That kid's got to be able to get invited to the Golden Globes. That kids got to be able to get invited to the Emmys. And he can't look back as me and looking back at me, and I'm a stain on his career.
You know what I'm saying.
It's like I will point this out, but I won't say names because I don't want to even make them feel bad. But like the kids on Fuller House, they don't work Fuller House, the reboots, they don't work. The adults that put them in that role, they knew they wouldn't work in prestige television, in prestige film, because now casting directors will say, oh, all those are the kids from Fuller House. We want somebody, a fresh face, etcetera, etcetera. And I promise you, as parents and as kids, they didn't go into that project thinking that that was going to be a blight on their career as soon as the show was over.
They didn't go into that.
I want to make sure anybody that I work with, no, they go in with open eyes.
This is what we stand to achieve. And it was so awesome watching Will Smith give it up to Quincy Jones after all all these years when Quincy.
Passed, because Quincy touched his life in a positive way with The Fresh Prince, he never had to look back on The Fresh Prince like it was this show.
He needed to get away from. So I don't know. That's my take on what I feel about reboots and opportunity.
Let me.
I was going to ask, was that a stain on your career where you had to lose racle because people always looked at you when.
You did roles?
Again, I don't look at it as I've never stopped working. It's a tough business just to work in, you know. Is it easier for some with better reps and different imaging?
Yeah?
When I think of Harry Potter or Al Bundy. I think about those guys in those characters, but they had better reps in different images and it hasn't slowed them down at all as far as the Tgif people are concerned, I like where I've landed. You know, I've I've never stopped working. Have I have always gotten the dream job that I wanted? No, But I talk about it in the book. A couple of jobs want in particular that I wanted. They went on to become the worst fel on that year.
It's like, WHOA, be careful what you want? So I just I don't know it.
Like I said, when my daughter got here, man, a lot of stuff just crystallized for me that it was like, Yo, let's go out here, let's be a working dad, and it's a beautiful thing to come home with a check to take care of your kid, and you're doing it in a way where you don't have to give up your damn dignity.
That's right. You mentioned though, Will Smith.
Will Smith, you said, was the first influential black person to hire you to do something outside of family matter.
Yeah, break that down.
How did you have a relationship I had seen will you know I would always cross paths with it, with NBA stuff, and you know, Will will invite me to the office everything. When he was in his offices on Third Street, I saw Will coming a mile away, just like I could identify, you know, just like I talked about ICEQB identifying talent and stuff like that. And I will actually just share the story as a matter of fact that I'm like, oh, I never would have shared that, not to violate your privacy. But I remember Charlie Mack having me over to his dressing room when he was shooting, and I was just a curious dude.
I love reading scripts. I loved just devouring film.
And I was in his dressing room and he had a script on the table and I asked to go. I was checking it out, and he said, oh, that's just another sci fi movie. And I'm I'm not gonna do another sci fi movie after this one. And I went to visit him again after that, and like a couple of weeks later, and when I got to the set, he wasn't there, and Charlie was like, I'm sorry, Yeah, Will was supposed to be here, but you know, Steven Spielberg sent a helicopter fo and I'm like, oh, okay, well that's.
A good reason for him to not be here to receive me.
And then months and months later after that, Will was coming out with Men in Black, and then it clicked that was the script for but he said he wasn't doing another sci fi movie. So I guess the helicopter ride was to change some opinions. So I just had this really cool relationship with Will. He was always open doors back then to me, and when he called me on the set, he called me to be on a Fresh Prince bel Air. It just meant a lot to me because he made it his personal business to put me on the show.
I got two more questions. One, when did Family Matters jump the Shark?
Oh man, we probably jumped the shark somewhere around the six or seventh season.
You remember, No, I don't remember the episode he had.
It.
Just it happens gradually.
You know, you start going, you just start going into port the party and coming out as too many characters.
You know, before you know what I was, Elvis, I was.
You know, we we sending Pole families to Paris and come back by standing on a teleportation device.
I think when you moved in with them.
I never moved in with them.
I never moved in with them. I thought you more, I thought your parents.
You ain't got to lie to kick it.
I never moved I thought your parents went away.
And nah, I never moved in with him though, Oh I never did. It was about like I said, it was probably around about about the sixth season, just.
To was living.
I was always next to your neighbor, I was. They never that was the thing again.
Back they never showed Steve's parents. They always kept the parents this big mission.
Your parents moved to Russia or something.
Yeah, they never.
They would always reference my parents. My parents were treated the same way. You remember they were follow cheers. Remember Norm's wife Vera. They they they never showed Vera, so he they would always talk about his wife at home. And that was the way you treated it back then. They never talked. They never showed the gooch on on different strokes. They always talked about the good. So they treated family matters, the character my parents the exact same way.
You couldn't do that in this day and AA.
This day and age wouldn't take that kind of just constant referencing mistique. They'd be like, no, no, no, bring in the parents and make sense of this.
I really thought you.
Now you never did.
I was watching an interview you did, and you said you never got invited to none of the Hollywood parties.
Nah. Nah, I mean I didn't.
I would do a lot of nice parties, but not none of the like the stuff that started gaining a lot of steam on on on social media, like you know, the rob Nation Brunch or or obviously you know you're talking about my man, you know you're the Diddy parties or whatever. Like, Noah, nothing organically not.
Did you used to get invited?
You got a you got you gotta go.
You gotta calm down, You just them around.
We just we're gonna slow it down for a second, you know what I'm saying.
Sometimes you can just be driving too fast and you're not paying attention.
To the to to you know, speed speed exactly. We're in a thirty five zone right now.
What happened to Judy?
Man?
How Judy just walked up talking about it? I know you don't give nothing to the listeners right now.
I mean, listen, listen. How do you think I covered in the book? Was I fair?
You know?
Yeah? Was I fair?
Yeah?
Yea, yeah, yeah, because because you I mean, but.
What you laughing about?
I guess because she didn't really have a roll. So it's like you get you know what I mean, I get what you're trying to say.
I didn't get to that part in the book, but I'm inferring and reading between the lines. Or was it that they didn't think she was good to stay on the show?
She didn't have a role.
Really that part of the family didn't matter Jesus.
So in the book, how do you get up?
I'm only a.
Couple of chapters in, but not to give it all away, but just some of it. How do you cover when you ask were you fair? Did someone tell you weren't fair?
And wasn't thank you?
I just like I've said a fan kind of through all, he wasn't wrong.
Okay, all right?
You know, there were a multitude of factors that went into her departure from the show that I blame all on her mother, but there were. But as a performer, they weren't giving her storylines, and she wasn't the best at delivering a joke, and so you know, sometimes they would give her material and it would just fall flat. And if you fall flat and run through.
They're gonna rewrite you.
And you know we're kids back then, so you know, kids, that's the thing. You can't roast each other nowadays, at least not in public. But trust me, kids are still roasted each other. That's never going to go away. So you know, we'd be sitting in the background and they're like.
And she blows the layup.
You know it was, you know, and it's just like, you know, you can only mess up so much and be arrogant about it in the first code, and the Mercedes too before somebody says, enough of this, and don't forget my producers. You know, this is a story that precedes my show. They famously fired a woman named Valerie Harper. We had a show called Valerie, and the show became the Hogan Family and Tom Miller may he Rest in peace, walked onto the set and said you are done, and in one file swoop change the name of the show from Valerie to the Hogan Family and put the focus on Jason Bateman.
And people forget those kinds of history.
So why they didn't just I'm vim Judy then, so didn't just bring somebody else?
Because they didn't they didn't feel like they needed the character, Like they we didn't have social media, so they were like, she's already only in one seat, you know that we've written her down as much as we possibly can.
There reaches a point where the corporation does the corporation thing. It was like, well, how much are we banned? Right, Okay, we'll just save the money and you don't have to answer to social media either.
And the thing that I do like where I like to address it with sensitivity is you know, and I talk about that, I say, look, the first miracle we have in our lives is who you born to.
You know, some people were born on third base, you know.
And in this situation, I really felt like, you know, Jamie was born to a mother who put herself before her daughter, and she had ideas of grandeur that weren't necessarily very realistic. And it sucks for Jamie that she has to wear that scarlet letter for the rest of her life.
And I hope that Jamie finds peace outside of show business.
To be quite honest, you know, this show business can time to make you think that this is the only way to make money, this is the only way to live, Like if it didn't I talk about that with Jonathan Brandis because he passed away and he took his life, and I just I was very close to him at that particular time, and I saw signs of someone that was really putting too much emphasis on what this business meant to his existence on Earth.
I got one last question. I know you got to go. Are you heavy?
And I have to go, I'm being class now?
Did you jump into cannabis early?
Oh?
Man, I'm listen.
Cannabis is just something I'm really passionate about because it landed on me.
That's my plymouth rock. It just landed on me. You know.
The I've been trying to get at the cannabis game for probably about shoot eight or nine years now, to be quite honest, and it's just it's been very challenging to meet the right people that are placed where they need to be placed. They care about quality, they care about diversity, because they're they're gonna change these laws and play with these laws in such a way that the big guys are gonna come in and they're gonna scoop it all up.
And just the way they just played us with bitcoin, it's gonna go down all the same way.
So I'm lucky to do a mess some really cool cats. We're not nationwide, but but my Guida Woolf group, they gona we're gonna have some fun.
You got no.
They named the streets.
Then back in two thousand and three, named a strain after my uh, after my old character. I don't even know if it was after my old character. Maybe somebody was just inspired.
They were watching an episode of Family Matter, so they call the strain purple Arcle. I've been name checked everywhere.
Rap songs, TV shows have been named that purplecle has been name checked everywhere, and people think that I made money off of it. So my brand name is it's purple. I always like to let people know. And that actually came from a joke where it was like when people see me, they think they're being discreet sometimes where they go, oh, it's Oracle, and I always just wanted to have something to say back, like, no, it's purple.
So that's what.
Yeah, So that's what it's. So that's what it's purple. The brand even stands for. But we are the House of purple Arcle. We make the best damn purple arcle that anybody makes out there.
Did you bring something I got what I tell you.
What I tell you, I left it at the damn hotel. But I'm telling you I will find you.
Do the.
Jump in Mara Michelle Thomas. Yes, every time, I'm careful. Now that's my girl.
I know.
I was going to say, every time you talk about her, it's very emotional for you and like I feel that that's your girl, right? Or was I want to know off off camera when you guys developed your relationship that we didn't saw on camera because it was so believable.
What was that off camera relationship?
Like?
And like building that for the characters on camera? Like, how did you guys cause you were so young?
Dad?
No, just you know, Michelle started off playing Malcolm Jamal Warner's girlfriend on The Cosby Show, and so.
She was always older than me.
So even though she was so small and bubbly and you know, big, but she was I looked at her like a little sister. I'm like a big sister. Yeah, And we just had this amazing chemistry. My mama loved her too, so that always that that made things easy. And she just made it her business to always want to always want to hook me up with somebody, and she introduced me to Martha's Vineyard and and and you know, spending summers there and we just had an amazing chemistry.
She was just and she was just down.
Like everybody knew Michelle. Everybody knew Michelle in the music business, everybody music. It just everywhere we went, people loved Michelle. And unfortunately she passed away to summit cancer. And that was just a very emotional time because we just knew what she was going through as an actress. And that's why I always like to remind people too. You know, they always try to apply this type casting narrative to me. I said, man, listen, this is a tough business. If you really want me to make you a list of people who are, you know, trying to get to their next opportunity, I can, and you'll see it doesn't have as much to do with type casting as you think. So during the time when she went out, I just I wish that there have been some better opportunities for her, you know what I'm saying, Like Carl Weather's just passed away, and you know, Mandalorian was a nice thing for him man to have on.
The way out.
So we want people to buy the book Growing Up Oracle.
But you know it is it is interesting to see how much of the love y'all created off camera.
Yeah, you know, yeah, no it was. It was real love, man, like you know, I get it. Yes, it was bumpy in the beginning, especially with the adults and uh and the.
Parents to some of the kids. But that's my puberty. You know. Darius is out here while in the times and you know, we he and I we slide each other's dms. But that's my brother.
I mean, we've all had, you know, brothers or whatever, frat brothers or college friends that you know, bugging out or whatnot. But you don't abandon that cat. You still taking this call, and y'all just laugh it off. And that's what my relationship is with with Kelly and Darius. It's very brotherly and sister lye and you know, I'll always defend our entire cast actually for the work that we did.
That's what it is.
Well, Jalil White, ladies and gentlemen, growing a pleasure right now, make you pick.
It up and thank you for joining us. There's been a long time you supposed to come in.
Here, like years ago, but I would run to you all the airports and stuff.
You know, I always give credit to a brother though, Who'll see me at you know who's famous, and he'll see me at the airport and like, okay, how you gonna act?
He was cool. Well, you know I've had other people would be Howard Stern.
You know, I remember what Howard Stern was sitting in coach behind me flying in New York.
I was flying New York to do his show, and and then.
I got up and I actually took him some dessert and uh on the flight and.
He's like, oh, I can't believe you came back here and uh.
And then when I did the show, he was like, Okay, I knew you were a cool dude because you came back to say what's up to me and coach?
And I was like, yeah, what was Howard?
And coach?
Might just need to get exactly And that's so that'll happen the famous folks tours, like yo, somebody you get stuck.
I figured how it makes so much money.
You gotta get on this is before this is like before this is before private party.
Sometimes you just gotta get it.
Before private park.
So he had looke, but he didn't have the bag right now. He's like, you better get your hands back to work.
He helicoptered, I think from building the building.
Now, well, ladies and gentlemen, it's to little white cloud now, good morning.
Wake that ass up in the morning.
The Breakfast Club
