The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. Hey there, welcome back to the latest edition of the Book of Joe podcast. And it is the final week of the regular season. And Joe, you sound as if maybe you can cut a rap album. I don't know, but maybe the length of the season is catching up to you here on the podcast.

The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. Hey there, welcome back to the latest edition of the Book of Joe podcast. And it is the final week of the regular season. And Joe, you sound as if maybe you can cut a rap album. I don't know, but maybe the length of the season is catching up to you here on the podcast.

It is. It is. You know, we always get these little colds this time of the year. It's playoff weather. I've been through a long season of golf and right now I think it's kind of catching up to me. The weather is starting to change a bit. Driven down to Tampa, two day trip, stopped in Charlotte, eventually made it to Tampa. So the Bucks and Eagles last night. Pretty impressive job by the Eagles. So yeah, I'll be fine. It's just that time of the year.

It is. It is. You know, we always get these little colds this time of the year. It's playoff weather. I've been through a long season of golf and right now I think it's kind of catching up to me. The weather is starting to change a bit. Driven down to Tampa, two day trip, stopped in Charlotte, eventually made it to Tampa. So the Bucks and Eagles last night. Pretty impressive job by the Eagles. So yeah, I'll be fine. It's just that time of the year.

Yeah, it's time to come up big, as Justin Verlander did in the first game of a huge series between the Astros and the Mariners.

Yeah, it's time to come up big, as Justin Verlander did in the first game of a huge series between the Astros and the Mariners.

And Joe.

And Joe.

You know, the American League West, inside and out, and so that's where I want to start with our focus here. We've got three teams, Texas, Seattle, Houston, three really good teams. One of them is going home because I think the Toronto Blue Jays looked like they have a good foothold here, and I have the Rangers in the playoffs here they have a three game lead in the lost column with six to play. They've righted the ship here. So we've got Seattle and Houston. For me, that's what it's going to come down to, handicap those three teams, who do you like, who you don't like? Coming down here in the final week of the season in the Ale West.

You know, the American League West, inside and out, and so that's where I want to start with our focus here. We've got three teams, Texas, Seattle, Houston, three really good teams. One of them is going home because I think the Toronto Blue Jays looked like they have a good foothold here, and I have the Rangers in the playoffs here they have a three game lead in the lost column with six to play. They've righted the ship here. So we've got Seattle and Houston. For me, that's what it's going to come down to, handicap those three teams, who do you like, who you don't like? Coming down here in the final week of the season in the Ale West.

Well, I'm not trying to be a front runner, but like you said, Texas looks like they have figured things out again. It's just I always think about in two thousand and five when the White Sox win World Series. We were playing in Chicago in the beginning of September. In Chicago, they were awful. They were absolutely awful. As the Angels went to the playoffs that year, we almost we ended up losing to them in the play They went to the World Series and won it, but they were terrible. They were absolutely terrible. But all of a sudden they flipped the switch. They're pitching was that good. They turned things around, and of course they had a good team, so that happens. Sometimes you got to go through these bad moments and then if you regain traction, here we go. And I think that's what Texas has done. They've regained their mojo, they've regained traction. They've got a lot of good things going on there. Montgomery's been pitching extremely well, obviously, and so I think if they're in the other two teams, again, it's a coin toss, but it's the opposite there. Houston has the pedigree. They have the pedigree, they've done it before. They got this weird record this year where they're better on the road, correct, which I don't get that I mean, and again it's syntithetical to the years of banging on trash cans. And I think they do play on the road towards the end of the season, correct, Houston does.

Well, I'm not trying to be a front runner, but like you said, Texas looks like they have figured things out again. It's just I always think about in two thousand and five when the White Sox win World Series. We were playing in Chicago in the beginning of September. In Chicago, they were awful. They were absolutely awful. As the Angels went to the playoffs that year, we almost we ended up losing to them in the play They went to the World Series and won it, but they were terrible. They were absolutely terrible. But all of a sudden they flipped the switch. They're pitching was that good. They turned things around, and of course they had a good team, so that happens. Sometimes you got to go through these bad moments and then if you regain traction, here we go. And I think that's what Texas has done. They've regained their mojo, they've regained traction. They've got a lot of good things going on there. Montgomery's been pitching extremely well, obviously, and so I think if they're in the other two teams, again, it's a coin toss, but it's the opposite there. Houston has the pedigree. They have the pedigree, they've done it before. They got this weird record this year where they're better on the road, correct, which I don't get that I mean, and again it's syntithetical to the years of banging on trash cans. And I think they do play on the road towards the end of the season, correct, Houston does.

Yeah, they're done with the home schedule.

Yeah, they're done with the home schedule.

They actually finished under five hundred in their home schedule. Now, in the history of baseball, there's in more than four hundred postseason teams teams that made the postseason in full seasons, not counting as shortened twenty twenty or eighty one seasons. Only one of them had a losing record at home. Is two thousand and one, Braves were one game under, so it's very unusual to have a losing record at home and still be a playoff team.

They actually finished under five hundred in their home schedule. Now, in the history of baseball, there's in more than four hundred postseason teams teams that made the postseason in full seasons, not counting as shortened twenty twenty or eighty one seasons. Only one of them had a losing record at home. Is two thousand and one, Braves were one game under, so it's very unusual to have a losing record at home and still be a playoff team.

The Astros might be able to pull that off.

The Astros might be able to pull that off.

Well, I think they are. I mean, I guess what I'm saying is, I think they will be based on if they've been doing that all year, I don't see any reason why that trend should discontinue. And again, I just think the Mariners are just they pushed so hardy it back into this thing. They went you know, south through a bit. They were hot. Absolutely, they were hot, But then again, it's about getting hot at the right time. So I'm going with Houston and Texas, the two Texas teams getting their way in there. I agree with the Toronto component of this thing. So I just think that eventually you're going to see shadow looking from the outside in.

Well, I think they are. I mean, I guess what I'm saying is, I think they will be based on if they've been doing that all year, I don't see any reason why that trend should discontinue. And again, I just think the Mariners are just they pushed so hardy it back into this thing. They went you know, south through a bit. They were hot. Absolutely, they were hot, But then again, it's about getting hot at the right time. So I'm going with Houston and Texas, the two Texas teams getting their way in there. I agree with the Toronto component of this thing. So I just think that eventually you're going to see shadow looking from the outside in.

Yeah, they face I think they have to win the next two against the Astros here after losing the opener. My quick take on these three teams in the Al West. Texas, Yeah, I agree with you. They've righted the ship here. A lot of that is Bruce Bochi is just I mean, he's going to the Hall of fame. He knows how to set the right tone with this team, no panic, and it is a veteran team, so you don't expect them to dig a bigger hole once they do hit that eventual skid. One thing concerns me about Texas Joe in the second half. Their bullpen is twenty sixth in the major leagues and the second half of the season era is over five. Now, this team is tremendous offensively, and their path to make you run of the postseason really is on the backs of their offense.

Yeah, they face I think they have to win the next two against the Astros here after losing the opener. My quick take on these three teams in the Al West. Texas, Yeah, I agree with you. They've righted the ship here. A lot of that is Bruce Bochi is just I mean, he's going to the Hall of fame. He knows how to set the right tone with this team, no panic, and it is a veteran team, so you don't expect them to dig a bigger hole once they do hit that eventual skid. One thing concerns me about Texas Joe in the second half. Their bullpen is twenty sixth in the major leagues and the second half of the season era is over five. Now, this team is tremendous offensively, and their path to make you run of the postseason really is on the backs of their offense.

Reminds me a little bit of Philadelphia last year.

Reminds me a little bit of Philadelphia last year.

It's good enough to do that, as you know, it's a hard way to navigate the postseason if you really want to rely on offense. But I do think their offense is that good where they can be a scary team because they're loaded up and down the lineup.

It's good enough to do that, as you know, it's a hard way to navigate the postseason if you really want to rely on offense. But I do think their offense is that good where they can be a scary team because they're loaded up and down the lineup.

Yeah, I've been through it though. I mean, yeah, I do like her. I do like their team offensively speaking, again, there's something that I kind of thought I figured out a little bit when I'm still there with Seeger. I don't I mean really, I would not throw the guy's strike the whole playoffs. I wouldn't throw him a strike. I would make him adjusted to me, I would make him swing out of pitches outside of the zone. And then I take my chances with everybody else. I know there's other good guys in the lineup. I get it. But then when you start applying pressure in other areas, it makes a difference with the group. You know, the second basement's outstanding. You know the catcher has done a really good job. But I just think that Seger is really the straw right there to be very careful when I play them, you know, pitching wise. Yeah, And the thing about that is it's so antithetical boats, it's so good with the bullpen. So it also indicates, you know, regardless of how good you can manage a particular part of the game, if you don't have the right players, it makes it makes a problematic So those are really important things to me. Is my bullpen in the playoff situation. And if I'm relying on hitting only, you're going to run into some hot pitching staffs, and that's they could still do a number on you your offensive side of the ball. So that would be my concern with them moving forward. If the bullpen is not somewhat fixed and becomes a little bit more us porous. It's going to be difficult, very difficult, because good pitching will stop that, I believe.

Yeah, I've been through it though. I mean, yeah, I do like her. I do like their team offensively speaking, again, there's something that I kind of thought I figured out a little bit when I'm still there with Seeger. I don't I mean really, I would not throw the guy's strike the whole playoffs. I wouldn't throw him a strike. I would make him adjusted to me, I would make him swing out of pitches outside of the zone. And then I take my chances with everybody else. I know there's other good guys in the lineup. I get it. But then when you start applying pressure in other areas, it makes a difference with the group. You know, the second basement's outstanding. You know the catcher has done a really good job. But I just think that Seger is really the straw right there to be very careful when I play them, you know, pitching wise. Yeah, And the thing about that is it's so antithetical boats, it's so good with the bullpen. So it also indicates, you know, regardless of how good you can manage a particular part of the game, if you don't have the right players, it makes it makes a problematic So those are really important things to me. Is my bullpen in the playoff situation. And if I'm relying on hitting only, you're going to run into some hot pitching staffs, and that's they could still do a number on you your offensive side of the ball. So that would be my concern with them moving forward. If the bullpen is not somewhat fixed and becomes a little bit more us porous. It's going to be difficult, very difficult, because good pitching will stop that, I believe.

Yeah, my take on Houston is the pedigree is just too good to ignore here. And you don't like to think teams can just turn it on and turn it off, but they know how to win ball games when they need to win ball games. There's just so much playoff experience. They've been in just about every imaginable situation. Think about this. They went through a three to nine stretch where they lost three series to the Royals and the A's literally the two worst teams in baseball. They look like they're hanging by a thread. They walk into Seattle on the road, give the ball to Justin Verlander, and he takes the ball to the ninth inning.

Yeah, my take on Houston is the pedigree is just too good to ignore here. And you don't like to think teams can just turn it on and turn it off, but they know how to win ball games when they need to win ball games. There's just so much playoff experience. They've been in just about every imaginable situation. Think about this. They went through a three to nine stretch where they lost three series to the Royals and the A's literally the two worst teams in baseball. They look like they're hanging by a thread. They walk into Seattle on the road, give the ball to Justin Verlander, and he takes the ball to the ninth inning.

How about this joke. Justin Verlander in that opener of the.

How about this joke. Justin Verlander in that opener of the.

Three game series with Seattle, his average fastball velocity for Steamer was ninety three point five. That's the lowest he's had in any game since twenty sixteen, and he took the ball to the ninth inning through an absolute gem. Oh, by the way, the Mariners went zero for thirteen against the guy with his worst quote unquote velocity since twenty sixteen.

Three game series with Seattle, his average fastball velocity for Steamer was ninety three point five. That's the lowest he's had in any game since twenty sixteen, and he took the ball to the ninth inning through an absolute gem. Oh, by the way, the Mariners went zero for thirteen against the guy with his worst quote unquote velocity since twenty sixteen.

That to me speaks to who the Astros are.

That to me speaks to who the Astros are.

You trust the guys with the pedigree, and no team has more a playoff pedigree right now than do the Astros.

You trust the guys with the pedigree, and no team has more a playoff pedigree right now than do the Astros.

Well, his breaking ball is so good right now, and I don't even know what the Scott report necessarily is with the Mariners fastball versus breaking ball. But again, he's whatever he's lost there, he's picked up in his pitchability, just knowledge is want to all that kind of stuff is there. But last time I saw him on the two, but I thought his breaking ball was really sharp. And again he's got this uh, this inner flame thatf you have. The last point about the Astros too, is that, Okay, I think they're going to get to the playoffs, but I think it's going to be hard to really get deep into the playoffs just because and it is just because they've been doing it for so many years now to really fan the flames to the point where they get hot enough internally mentally wanting it badly enough and understid that's not an indictment against them. It's just difficult as human beings to get to that level. You know, I see I see Texas figuring it out a little bit more than Houston does right now, just based on the fact they haven't been there in a while, and the and you know, boats there, the start they got off to, all that stuff I think is going to come back to them a little bit. So I like Texas, even though I just say what I said about their bullpen, and you could pitch them a little bit, but I was just from a humanitarian perspective, a human perspective. I think their their flames are going to be a little bit hotter to get this done than Houston's.

Well, his breaking ball is so good right now, and I don't even know what the Scott report necessarily is with the Mariners fastball versus breaking ball. But again, he's whatever he's lost there, he's picked up in his pitchability, just knowledge is want to all that kind of stuff is there. But last time I saw him on the two, but I thought his breaking ball was really sharp. And again he's got this uh, this inner flame thatf you have. The last point about the Astros too, is that, Okay, I think they're going to get to the playoffs, but I think it's going to be hard to really get deep into the playoffs just because and it is just because they've been doing it for so many years now to really fan the flames to the point where they get hot enough internally mentally wanting it badly enough and understid that's not an indictment against them. It's just difficult as human beings to get to that level. You know, I see I see Texas figuring it out a little bit more than Houston does right now, just based on the fact they haven't been there in a while, and the and you know, boats there, the start they got off to, all that stuff I think is going to come back to them a little bit. So I like Texas, even though I just say what I said about their bullpen, and you could pitch them a little bit, but I was just from a humanitarian perspective, a human perspective. I think their their flames are going to be a little bit hotter to get this done than Houston's.

As for Seattle, you mentioned their offense.

As for Seattle, you mentioned their offense.

What I don't like about their offenses, there's just too much swing and miss. So you look at the highest strikeout rates in baseball, you've got Minnesota.

What I don't like about their offenses, there's just too much swing and miss. So you look at the highest strikeout rates in baseball, you've got Minnesota.

Number one and Seattle number two. That just too much swing and miss.

Number one and Seattle number two. That just too much swing and miss.

And a guy like Verlander who has become, it really has been for a long time, a complete pitcher. You know, I threw it out there about his four seam fastball because we always think a JV at that high riding for seamer top of his own upper nineties. But man, he knows how to pitch, as he mentioned the breaking stuff is really good, so he can exploit a lineup that has holes in it, swings and misses to be found. And that's that scares me about Seattle. The other thing here is it's generally a really good pitching staff. It's a top three staff top to bottom of the major leagues, but they rely a lot on young pitching. And the Seattle starting pitchers in September are seven to nine with a four to seven to seven era. You've got guys like Kirby, who's gonna get the ball in the upcoming game here, even Gilbert little bit, but some of those guys now are at that point where that can they hold it long enough to get this team into the postseason, And September has not been good for a team that really to me, their pitching is great, but it.

And a guy like Verlander who has become, it really has been for a long time, a complete pitcher. You know, I threw it out there about his four seam fastball because we always think a JV at that high riding for seamer top of his own upper nineties. But man, he knows how to pitch, as he mentioned the breaking stuff is really good, so he can exploit a lineup that has holes in it, swings and misses to be found. And that's that scares me about Seattle. The other thing here is it's generally a really good pitching staff. It's a top three staff top to bottom of the major leagues, but they rely a lot on young pitching. And the Seattle starting pitchers in September are seven to nine with a four to seven to seven era. You've got guys like Kirby, who's gonna get the ball in the upcoming game here, even Gilbert little bit, but some of those guys now are at that point where that can they hold it long enough to get this team into the postseason, And September has not been good for a team that really to me, their pitching is great, but it.

Hasn't been as good as it was the first five.

Hasn't been as good as it was the first five.

Months Uncharted Waters right. That's why I like when I was with the Rays and Hite to go historical on everybody, but I really wanted my starting pitching staff to throw a thousand innings. I did. I really wanted to get as close to two hundred out of each starter as we possibly could, and sometimes exceeded, which we did. The point is when you get to that level of competency regarding mentally and physically being able to pitch that late into the season successfully, I think that's a difference maker. It's hard again, everybody wants to rely on bullpens. Now, everybody wants to turn the ball over after five innings or four plus whatever. I still like the tried and true method to really develop thoroughbreds guys that can do those kinds of things, and I think it can be developed. I don't understand. The only thing preventing it, I think is, if anything, the insistence upon throwing as hard as you possibly can all the time, and then go out there, you know, dial it up from first pitch as long as you can as hard as you can. We'll bring somebody else in. As opposed to pitchability, where guys can go six six plus innings on a more consistent basis, and it becomes a badge of honor when you're a starting pitcher that you do throw two hundred are really close to it on an annual basis. I still think it's desirable to nurture that. Again, am I living in the past. I don't know why. It's just it's very capable. We're just not nurturing it now. Two ways we're not permitting it to happen minor league wise, pushing guys a little bit farther in innings pitch the number two by insisting upon a method of just trying to throw the ball as hard as you can and spinning the ball. I think those are two things that are really preventing the two hundred any pitcher.

Months Uncharted Waters right. That's why I like when I was with the Rays and Hite to go historical on everybody, but I really wanted my starting pitching staff to throw a thousand innings. I did. I really wanted to get as close to two hundred out of each starter as we possibly could, and sometimes exceeded, which we did. The point is when you get to that level of competency regarding mentally and physically being able to pitch that late into the season successfully, I think that's a difference maker. It's hard again, everybody wants to rely on bullpens. Now, everybody wants to turn the ball over after five innings or four plus whatever. I still like the tried and true method to really develop thoroughbreds guys that can do those kinds of things, and I think it can be developed. I don't understand. The only thing preventing it, I think is, if anything, the insistence upon throwing as hard as you possibly can all the time, and then go out there, you know, dial it up from first pitch as long as you can as hard as you can. We'll bring somebody else in. As opposed to pitchability, where guys can go six six plus innings on a more consistent basis, and it becomes a badge of honor when you're a starting pitcher that you do throw two hundred are really close to it on an annual basis. I still think it's desirable to nurture that. Again, am I living in the past. I don't know why. It's just it's very capable. We're just not nurturing it now. Two ways we're not permitting it to happen minor league wise, pushing guys a little bit farther in innings pitch the number two by insisting upon a method of just trying to throw the ball as hard as you can and spinning the ball. I think those are two things that are really preventing the two hundred any pitcher.

It's a great point, Joe. I think you're absolutely dead right about that. It's a chasing veloc and chasing swings and misses on the mound. So that's why you see abbreviated starts. Guy's not going deep into games. Walk rate hasn't gotten any better, strikeout rate has. But you know, I did a game last night for FS one the Giants and watching Logan web pitch.

It's a great point, Joe. I think you're absolutely dead right about that. It's a chasing veloc and chasing swings and misses on the mound. So that's why you see abbreviated starts. Guy's not going deep into games. Walk rate hasn't gotten any better, strikeout rate has. But you know, I did a game last night for FS one the Giants and watching Logan web pitch.

What a treat.

What a treat.

I mean, he's throwing ninety two at best, but the movement on his sinker and changeup is just crazy. And this is a kid who does not want to come.

I mean, he's throwing ninety two at best, but the movement on his sinker and changeup is just crazy. And this is a kid who does not want to come.

Out of the game. Leads the major leagues and innings pitch.

Out of the game. Leads the major leagues and innings pitch.

He pitched the ninth inning and had a one run lead, two runners on base, nobody out.

He pitched the ninth inning and had a one run lead, two runners on base, nobody out.

He was not coming out of that game.

He was not coming out of that game.

He threw three straight ground balls two hundred and sixteen innings into the season to get out of a ninth inning gym and win the darn game. I mean, come on, we need more of those kind of pitchers. That was a treat to watch.

He threw three straight ground balls two hundred and sixteen innings into the season to get out of a ninth inning gym and win the darn game. I mean, come on, we need more of those kind of pitchers. That was a treat to watch.

Isn't it. I mean, and again I don't. I do believe it's out there. I do believe it's out there. It's just it's just methodology. How are we going to go about this? What are we going to permit? What are we going to nurture? What do we think wins? I mean, if the point analytics shifts to the point where the starting picture becomes more necessary, then you'll see organizations attempt to nurture and build up arm strength and number of pictures thrown and get guys into mornings on an annual basis. That's just an analytical shift. If everything remains the same regarding the way front offices are constructed, I do believe that. I believe, I know it. I've seen it. I believe it. I know it. It has it's going to come down to again, different training method a different mindset, paradigm shift, in regards to how we treat our minor league pictures and what we expect out of them. And he even goes back to high school and college, you know where they're they're just teaching kids to crow up and throw as hard as they can. That's got to go away. I was talking to a trainer the other day, really my favorite trainer in all of baseball. I'm not going to mention his name, but he was telling me how arm injuries are so severe. It's almost the arms are blowing up based on the training methods employed today. And that's that's where you're seeing this radical shift in the number of surgeries. And not only that when they do get in there, the fact that the arms are blown up so badly, these are the kind of things that have to be addressed. And there's only one reason. It's the methods being taught though, the stress that's being put on the arm based on, like you said, velocity missing bats. At the end of the day, I wish I remember the pitcher that was talking about pitching the contact. I wanted to applaud him. You pitch the contact, then when you get to get to two strikes, then you try to strike somebody out in the right situation. But you can't strike somebody out with zero strikes on him.

Isn't it. I mean, and again I don't. I do believe it's out there. I do believe it's out there. It's just it's just methodology. How are we going to go about this? What are we going to permit? What are we going to nurture? What do we think wins? I mean, if the point analytics shifts to the point where the starting picture becomes more necessary, then you'll see organizations attempt to nurture and build up arm strength and number of pictures thrown and get guys into mornings on an annual basis. That's just an analytical shift. If everything remains the same regarding the way front offices are constructed, I do believe that. I believe, I know it. I've seen it. I believe it. I know it. It has it's going to come down to again, different training method a different mindset, paradigm shift, in regards to how we treat our minor league pictures and what we expect out of them. And he even goes back to high school and college, you know where they're they're just teaching kids to crow up and throw as hard as they can. That's got to go away. I was talking to a trainer the other day, really my favorite trainer in all of baseball. I'm not going to mention his name, but he was telling me how arm injuries are so severe. It's almost the arms are blowing up based on the training methods employed today. And that's that's where you're seeing this radical shift in the number of surgeries. And not only that when they do get in there, the fact that the arms are blown up so badly, these are the kind of things that have to be addressed. And there's only one reason. It's the methods being taught though, the stress that's being put on the arm based on, like you said, velocity missing bats. At the end of the day, I wish I remember the pitcher that was talking about pitching the contact. I wanted to applaud him. You pitch the contact, then when you get to get to two strikes, then you try to strike somebody out in the right situation. But you can't strike somebody out with zero strikes on him.

Hey, Joe, as long as we're talking about the American League West, I want to ask you about Mike Trout. He talked to the media actually for the first time in a couple of weeks here this week. And a lot of speculation about whether Mike Trout will want to leave force a trade from the Angels. Now he has a full note trade clause and nothing's happening unless Mike Trout wants it to happen. He was somewhat and you know Mike so well, he's not going to rock anybody's boat, and he's not going to answer a direct question about, Hey, do you want to play here or do you want to be.

Hey, Joe, as long as we're talking about the American League West, I want to ask you about Mike Trout. He talked to the media actually for the first time in a couple of weeks here this week. And a lot of speculation about whether Mike Trout will want to leave force a trade from the Angels. Now he has a full note trade clause and nothing's happening unless Mike Trout wants it to happen. He was somewhat and you know Mike so well, he's not going to rock anybody's boat, and he's not going to answer a direct question about, Hey, do you want to play here or do you want to be.

He said something.

He said something.

He's going to sit down with Artie Moreno and with John Carpino, as he does at the end of every season.

He's going to sit down with Artie Moreno and with John Carpino, as he does at the end of every season.

He's going to go home kind of clear his mind.

He's going to go home kind of clear his mind.

You know, Mike likes to get away from the game with his Eagles and his hunting and all that in the offseason and then get ready for spring training in an Angel's uniform. He wasn't committing to anything, but that's Mike Trout. I mean, he's not going to rock anybody's boat, Joe. I don't know your take on Mike, but I cannot see Mike Trout saying get me out of here.

You know, Mike likes to get away from the game with his Eagles and his hunting and all that in the offseason and then get ready for spring training in an Angel's uniform. He wasn't committing to anything, but that's Mike Trout. I mean, he's not going to rock anybody's boat, Joe. I don't know your take on Mike, but I cannot see Mike Trout saying get me out of here.

I could be totally wrong.

I could be totally wrong.

Maybe he's harboring something underneath the surface here, but he's such a loyal guy to the Angels, the way they've treated him from the day they drafted him, after so many teams passed on Mike. You know, I just don't know if Mike Trout wants to go somewhere else. Does he want to win absolutely? Does he want to force a trade? That's a different question.

Maybe he's harboring something underneath the surface here, but he's such a loyal guy to the Angels, the way they've treated him from the day they drafted him, after so many teams passed on Mike. You know, I just don't know if Mike Trout wants to go somewhere else. Does he want to win absolutely? Does he want to force a trade? That's a different question.

I mean, I and please take this the right away. I'm not identifying myself in any way, shape or form to his talent level. I'm missed talking about geography. We're from the same neck of the woods. Basically, he's a little bit into New Jersey, south of Philadelphia. I'm a little bit north just where we come from. Yeah, I don't see him doing those kinds of things. I don't see him being demanding. When you're raised in a small town like that and the humility that surrounds that, it's difficult to ever arrive at the point where you think things are all about you. So I don't see him doing that. I could see him having a conversation. I could see him just to Artie and John relaying his feelings, his thoughts. But I just it's antithetical again to his personality and where he comes from, his parental background and his friends and his coaches. It's hard, man, It's hard to, I think, to step away from that. Those roots stills upbringing. So yeah, I could see him wanting to speak with and finding out what they think more than forcing onto them what he thinks.

I mean, I and please take this the right away. I'm not identifying myself in any way, shape or form to his talent level. I'm missed talking about geography. We're from the same neck of the woods. Basically, he's a little bit into New Jersey, south of Philadelphia. I'm a little bit north just where we come from. Yeah, I don't see him doing those kinds of things. I don't see him being demanding. When you're raised in a small town like that and the humility that surrounds that, it's difficult to ever arrive at the point where you think things are all about you. So I don't see him doing that. I could see him having a conversation. I could see him just to Artie and John relaying his feelings, his thoughts. But I just it's antithetical again to his personality and where he comes from, his parental background and his friends and his coaches. It's hard, man, It's hard to, I think, to step away from that. Those roots stills upbringing. So yeah, I could see him wanting to speak with and finding out what they think more than forcing onto them what he thinks.

Well said, Hey, we're going to take a quick break, Joe, and when we get back, I really want to ask you about managers around the game. We have not had a managerial change in the course of this season. Are there any coming up after the season. We'll talk about that next Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts. Yeah, managers, how about this, Joe. None have been fired this year, No changes. This is after last year. There were seven teams that changed their manager either during the season and after the season.

Well said, Hey, we're going to take a quick break, Joe, and when we get back, I really want to ask you about managers around the game. We have not had a managerial change in the course of this season. Are there any coming up after the season. We'll talk about that next Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts. Yeah, managers, how about this, Joe. None have been fired this year, No changes. This is after last year. There were seven teams that changed their manager either during the season and after the season.

Of course you were part of that early on.

Of course you were part of that early on.

And I know, Joe, you're not going to bring this up, but I will you talk about what happened with the Angels with you. You had a three year contract with an option year. The first year was a COVID season. I mean, no manager taking over our team is able to implement any parts of their culture in a COVID shortened season. It was just so unusual. The next year there's a lockout, the spring training starts extremely late, and half of your star players were basically on the il for more than half of a season. And then the next year, after twenty seven to twenty nine start, you're out.

And I know, Joe, you're not going to bring this up, but I will you talk about what happened with the Angels with you. You had a three year contract with an option year. The first year was a COVID season. I mean, no manager taking over our team is able to implement any parts of their culture in a COVID shortened season. It was just so unusual. The next year there's a lockout, the spring training starts extremely late, and half of your star players were basically on the il for more than half of a season. And then the next year, after twenty seven to twenty nine start, you're out.

So really three years you.

So really three years you.

Didn't have a quote unquote normal season, not one. Okay, since then, your record, by the way you were twenty percentage was four eighty two, and that third year for sixty eight. Overall, since then, the Angels are worse. They're four forty one. So you're not going to say it, but I'll say it that you really didn't have a full run with the Angels.

Didn't have a quote unquote normal season, not one. Okay, since then, your record, by the way you were twenty percentage was four eighty two, and that third year for sixty eight. Overall, since then, the Angels are worse. They're four forty one. So you're not going to say it, but I'll say it that you really didn't have a full run with the Angels.

And as time is starting to show.

And as time is starting to show.

Here, the manager wasn't the problem with the Angels, because they've been worse off since you've been gone.

Here, the manager wasn't the problem with the Angels, because they've been worse off since you've been gone.

Yeah, listen, it's I really did want to stay there longer. I wanted to stay there actually for a long time I grew up as an Angel, I was a California Angel, and that's really why I wanted to go back there. I thought my relationship with Artie was one that I would be able to be given the opportunity to bring us back to what I considered the glory years. It was such a big part of the first World Series championship and then after that, even to the point I left with the Rays and go back to the minor league level. So I went California Angel. That's who I am, and I'll say that to anybody. And I really had wished that Ardy had renamed him rebranded them the California Angels when he took them over, as opposed to the Los Angeles Angeles, which says no, does not ring with me at all. I just think it's too far from the truth. So anyway, having said that, yeah, I wanted to be there longer. I really do believe we could have turned it around one hundred percent, not even ninety nine percent. There was a lot of things there that I felt we're going in the right direction, as evidence by the beginning of that season or my last season there, and then we just couldn't hit We just couldn't pitch. I was forced to make some bullpen decisions based on availability, and then all of a sudden, Bob's your uncle and I'm out of there. Right But you're talking about that situation compared to now, and again, I think the lack or why we're not seeing as many managerial firings is because of the influence of the front office. I was in more of a unilateral decision making situation with the angels. I did fight on some things I didn't like. I let people know what I didn't like, and that probably was a big part of my demise there. But you're not going to get that for most managers today. You're not going to get pushed back with front offices when you don't agree with something you know. Quite frankly, a lot of the guys that are managing right now, I've never done it before prior to this, so you don't really know what you think. Sometimes you just know they what the group of on top tells you to think. I'm just being honest. So I think the lack of firing is pretty much because there's so much influence from the front office to the clubhouse of the game that would almost be like they'd be firing themselves, you know, if in fact they chose to let a manager go after feeding him so much in information, asking him to do so many different things during the game, and then eventually saying you're the problem, when in fact, obviously it's not true. So that's my short winded die.

Yeah, listen, it's I really did want to stay there longer. I wanted to stay there actually for a long time I grew up as an Angel, I was a California Angel, and that's really why I wanted to go back there. I thought my relationship with Artie was one that I would be able to be given the opportunity to bring us back to what I considered the glory years. It was such a big part of the first World Series championship and then after that, even to the point I left with the Rays and go back to the minor league level. So I went California Angel. That's who I am, and I'll say that to anybody. And I really had wished that Ardy had renamed him rebranded them the California Angels when he took them over, as opposed to the Los Angeles Angeles, which says no, does not ring with me at all. I just think it's too far from the truth. So anyway, having said that, yeah, I wanted to be there longer. I really do believe we could have turned it around one hundred percent, not even ninety nine percent. There was a lot of things there that I felt we're going in the right direction, as evidence by the beginning of that season or my last season there, and then we just couldn't hit We just couldn't pitch. I was forced to make some bullpen decisions based on availability, and then all of a sudden, Bob's your uncle and I'm out of there. Right But you're talking about that situation compared to now, and again, I think the lack or why we're not seeing as many managerial firings is because of the influence of the front office. I was in more of a unilateral decision making situation with the angels. I did fight on some things I didn't like. I let people know what I didn't like, and that probably was a big part of my demise there. But you're not going to get that for most managers today. You're not going to get pushed back with front offices when you don't agree with something you know. Quite frankly, a lot of the guys that are managing right now, I've never done it before prior to this, so you don't really know what you think. Sometimes you just know they what the group of on top tells you to think. I'm just being honest. So I think the lack of firing is pretty much because there's so much influence from the front office to the clubhouse of the game that would almost be like they'd be firing themselves, you know, if in fact they chose to let a manager go after feeding him so much in information, asking him to do so many different things during the game, and then eventually saying you're the problem, when in fact, obviously it's not true. So that's my short winded die.

Try well think about it.

Try well think about it.

I mean, there's been some great surprise teams pop up, the Reds still in the race here in the last week, the Diamondbacks of course, the Orioles taking a huge leap forward with Brandon Hye.

I mean, there's been some great surprise teams pop up, the Reds still in the race here in the last week, the Diamondbacks of course, the Orioles taking a huge leap forward with Brandon Hye.

This year great stories, right, But a big part of this.

This year great stories, right, But a big part of this.

Year also is the amount of money spent on teams that really have been disasters. The three biggest payrolls in baseball, the Mets, the Yankees, the Padres, all with losing records. The Cardinals and the White Sox have been disasters. I don't know if we're going to see a managerial change among any of those teams. It's really interesting to me that some of these teams that really underachieve.

Year also is the amount of money spent on teams that really have been disasters. The three biggest payrolls in baseball, the Mets, the Yankees, the Padres, all with losing records. The Cardinals and the White Sox have been disasters. I don't know if we're going to see a managerial change among any of those teams. It's really interesting to me that some of these teams that really underachieve.

You don't hear a lot of noise.

You don't hear a lot of noise.

Now.

Now.

Aaron Boom was just kind of speaking out loud, answering questions the other day. He doesn't know what his future is going to be with the Yankees. I gotta believe he's coming back.

Aaron Boom was just kind of speaking out loud, answering questions the other day. He doesn't know what his future is going to be with the Yankees. I gotta believe he's coming back.

Joe.

Joe.

This season is not on Aaron Boone. I think the players have made it clear that they like him, not that that's the be all and the end all. You know, sometimes you know, you get the confidence of the players and there's.

This season is not on Aaron Boone. I think the players have made it clear that they like him, not that that's the be all and the end all. You know, sometimes you know, you get the confidence of the players and there's.

Other things that are lacking. I get that, but I think he's done a good job.

Other things that are lacking. I get that, but I think he's done a good job.

I think the roster was really not built for today's game to start out.

I think the roster was really not built for today's game to start out.

That's not on him. Give me a quick take on Aaron Boone.

That's not on him. Give me a quick take on Aaron Boone.

I agree, I agree all those guys you mentioned should come back next year. It's more of the acquisitional process than it is the end game management of the team. There are so many folks that want to be involved in the daily runnings or the making of the team that it becomes confusing. And I think again that's why it's very difficult to pin any of the negativity on the managers, because they are just part of this fluid system that runs from the top to the bottom, from ownership, from some of these situations right down to the dials ownership an office eventure to the dugout. So they're they're great communicators. Aaron Is, buck Is, Bobby Melboyne is I mean you've mentioned somebody else too, I can't remember. But these guys are all good, good, really good at what they do, and they're great communicators, and a big part of their job is to at least twice a day get in front of the cameras before after the game and then kind of be the spokesperson almost the press secretary for the organization. And these guys are really good at that. So again, the acquisitional process needs to be more under scrutiny as opposed to the managerial process. Uh No, one and then and then again. Analytically, I know that the Yankees are going through this analytical deep dive, which I find interesting. It's I think eventually all this is going to lead to more of a balanced situation, which I think is great, where you do balance analytics with baseball acumen teaching the game, and then using analytics serving baseball, not baseball serving, which is I think pretty much what's going on right now. So I think you get back to this balanced situation, and if in fact the manager becomes more prominent decision making, then it will be where you see managers either glorified or fired or consistently or easily. But when the brunt of the decision making is being derived or dictated from up above, it's hard for these managers to be fired because they're pretty much basically carrying out what the front office wants.

I agree, I agree all those guys you mentioned should come back next year. It's more of the acquisitional process than it is the end game management of the team. There are so many folks that want to be involved in the daily runnings or the making of the team that it becomes confusing. And I think again that's why it's very difficult to pin any of the negativity on the managers, because they are just part of this fluid system that runs from the top to the bottom, from ownership, from some of these situations right down to the dials ownership an office eventure to the dugout. So they're they're great communicators. Aaron Is, buck Is, Bobby Melboyne is I mean you've mentioned somebody else too, I can't remember. But these guys are all good, good, really good at what they do, and they're great communicators, and a big part of their job is to at least twice a day get in front of the cameras before after the game and then kind of be the spokesperson almost the press secretary for the organization. And these guys are really good at that. So again, the acquisitional process needs to be more under scrutiny as opposed to the managerial process. Uh No, one and then and then again. Analytically, I know that the Yankees are going through this analytical deep dive, which I find interesting. It's I think eventually all this is going to lead to more of a balanced situation, which I think is great, where you do balance analytics with baseball acumen teaching the game, and then using analytics serving baseball, not baseball serving, which is I think pretty much what's going on right now. So I think you get back to this balanced situation, and if in fact the manager becomes more prominent decision making, then it will be where you see managers either glorified or fired or consistently or easily. But when the brunt of the decision making is being derived or dictated from up above, it's hard for these managers to be fired because they're pretty much basically carrying out what the front office wants.

You're right, and I think that's especially true with the Yankees with Aaron Boone and Brian Cashman.

You're right, and I think that's especially true with the Yankees with Aaron Boone and Brian Cashman.

They have a great relationship.

They have a great relationship.

I don't think it makes sense to go anywhere else when they do work together very well. And that's not a knock on Boone, as you said, it's just the way that the game is now. A couple of other situations, now Buck Showalter with the Mets. That's interesting because now David Sterns is the president of Baseball Operation. New guy comes in and you don't know, so I think it's probably fifty to fifty whether David Sterns wants Bucks show Walter back. Think when you hire David Stearns, who essentially was a free agent and a Marquis free agent, for what he does, you give him the right to pick his own manager.

I don't think it makes sense to go anywhere else when they do work together very well. And that's not a knock on Boone, as you said, it's just the way that the game is now. A couple of other situations, now Buck Showalter with the Mets. That's interesting because now David Sterns is the president of Baseball Operation. New guy comes in and you don't know, so I think it's probably fifty to fifty whether David Sterns wants Bucks show Walter back. Think when you hire David Stearns, who essentially was a free agent and a Marquis free agent, for what he does, you give him the right to pick his own manager.

I think that's clear. We don't know where he is on Buck.

I think that's clear. We don't know where he is on Buck.

We'll have to find out in San Diego with Bob Melvin, you know him and Aj Pereller have been together now a.

We'll have to find out in San Diego with Bob Melvin, you know him and Aj Pereller have been together now a.

Couple of years.

Couple of years.

They went to the NLCS last year, and really the relationship has not been great or at least productive in this season.

They went to the NLCS last year, and really the relationship has not been great or at least productive in this season.

So I don't know.

So I don't know.

I don't know if if that relationship is going to continue going forward. Are both going to be back? Is one going to be back and not the other. There's a lot of questions with San Diego. No one knows where they're going, other than their payroll is going to be reduced. Blake Snell, Josh had free agents. They'll put one Soto on the trade market, see what they can get. The baseball town that San Diego has become is a tremendous story. I mean, they filled that place, sold out more than sixty of their home games.

I don't know if if that relationship is going to continue going forward. Are both going to be back? Is one going to be back and not the other. There's a lot of questions with San Diego. No one knows where they're going, other than their payroll is going to be reduced. Blake Snell, Josh had free agents. They'll put one Soto on the trade market, see what they can get. The baseball town that San Diego has become is a tremendous story. I mean, they filled that place, sold out more than sixty of their home games.

Is tremendous atmosphere.

Is tremendous atmosphere.

It's really analogous to Philly going to Citizens Bank Ballpark. The energy in that ballpark is tremendous. Those fans turned out for a losing team this year. I think they, like the Yankees, are going to have to really take a deep dive here, not just into the analytics, but who are they as a franchise and where are they going? It's not an obvious answer to that question, but I think San Diego has some hard questions they have to answer, and I think both the general manager and the manager are part of those questions.

It's really analogous to Philly going to Citizens Bank Ballpark. The energy in that ballpark is tremendous. Those fans turned out for a losing team this year. I think they, like the Yankees, are going to have to really take a deep dive here, not just into the analytics, but who are they as a franchise and where are they going? It's not an obvious answer to that question, but I think San Diego has some hard questions they have to answer, and I think both the general manager and the manager are part of those questions.

You said it properly. The relationship. I mean, that's a big part of a most important part of all of this, the relationship. Like when I was with the Angels there, Perry did not hire me, so I totally understand him wanting to get his own guy at some point. I do get it. I can't deny that at all. The relationship between the GM and the field manager is extremely important. Again, I for years with Andrew. Andrew and I we did wonderfully together. And I used to advise my people that I knew that were in the game. We're not getting jobs coaches on the minor league level, whatever. I advised them that they really need to understand this new method I did about analytics and how it applies to the game. If you're not into it, please school yourself a bit on it, because you really need to be able to speak that language in order to get a job. And I knew that, and I did advise people about that. Andrew and I were able to balance all of that because Andrew knew where I was coming from. He knew I was into it. I mean, it was started from the first time I walked into that room in Houston for that interview. I came armed with a notebook full of my analytical stuff. He knew that from the beginning, But he also knew how severely important it was to me to incorporate old school methods of scouting, teaching, etc. And I really tried to impart that on him because that's something he had not been a part of prior to coming into that. And we created this wonderful balance, I thought, where we could argue, he and I could argue, which was really important. We had some great arguments, really good about different whether it's who to play, who not to play, whether to swing on a three and zero count or not. All those things were really good argument seeing I had back then and even to the role of the bullpen guy, where you go to a higher leverage guy in a situation earlier in a game, even though traditionally it said you should go from to the seventh to day to the ninth any guy. He's the guy that really changed my thinking on that. Gosh, I don't even know it was twenty twelve or eleven or somewhere in that general vicinity. So we had this really good method going on where we could. We had this relationship that we could argue health and a healthy manner, and I was his guy, and that's why we survived and we did so well together. Gms have to have their guy and it should be rooted in a great relationship. I thought THEO and I had that too. When I went to the Cubs. I was kind of disappointed there after five years because I thought we had actually way more left in the tank than that, but it didn't work out that way. But that's it. You have to you have to be the GM needs pretty much needs to hire whoever that GM is. He needs to hire you to really work up that same sheet of music.

You said it properly. The relationship. I mean, that's a big part of a most important part of all of this, the relationship. Like when I was with the Angels there, Perry did not hire me, so I totally understand him wanting to get his own guy at some point. I do get it. I can't deny that at all. The relationship between the GM and the field manager is extremely important. Again, I for years with Andrew. Andrew and I we did wonderfully together. And I used to advise my people that I knew that were in the game. We're not getting jobs coaches on the minor league level, whatever. I advised them that they really need to understand this new method I did about analytics and how it applies to the game. If you're not into it, please school yourself a bit on it, because you really need to be able to speak that language in order to get a job. And I knew that, and I did advise people about that. Andrew and I were able to balance all of that because Andrew knew where I was coming from. He knew I was into it. I mean, it was started from the first time I walked into that room in Houston for that interview. I came armed with a notebook full of my analytical stuff. He knew that from the beginning, But he also knew how severely important it was to me to incorporate old school methods of scouting, teaching, etc. And I really tried to impart that on him because that's something he had not been a part of prior to coming into that. And we created this wonderful balance, I thought, where we could argue, he and I could argue, which was really important. We had some great arguments, really good about different whether it's who to play, who not to play, whether to swing on a three and zero count or not. All those things were really good argument seeing I had back then and even to the role of the bullpen guy, where you go to a higher leverage guy in a situation earlier in a game, even though traditionally it said you should go from to the seventh to day to the ninth any guy. He's the guy that really changed my thinking on that. Gosh, I don't even know it was twenty twelve or eleven or somewhere in that general vicinity. So we had this really good method going on where we could. We had this relationship that we could argue health and a healthy manner, and I was his guy, and that's why we survived and we did so well together. Gms have to have their guy and it should be rooted in a great relationship. I thought THEO and I had that too. When I went to the Cubs. I was kind of disappointed there after five years because I thought we had actually way more left in the tank than that, but it didn't work out that way. But that's it. You have to you have to be the GM needs pretty much needs to hire whoever that GM is. He needs to hire you to really work up that same sheet of music.

I think, Joe you said that so well, and I think the most important point to drive home there is that disagreement is good and healthy. It's part of a productive atmosphere. You want people around you who can challenge your beliefs, but you don't want people just to rubber stamp where you're going. It doesn't mean you have to be at loggerheads all the time. But debate is healthy. It's it's not a bad thing. When you hear about some friction, that's good. It makes you rethink the different perspectives in any kind of line of work. I think is healthy. It's part of what teamwork is all about. So I'm glad you drove that home. It doesn't mean that you have to dislike one another. You shouldn't be challenged by someone's difference of opinion. You actually welcome it.

I think, Joe you said that so well, and I think the most important point to drive home there is that disagreement is good and healthy. It's part of a productive atmosphere. You want people around you who can challenge your beliefs, but you don't want people just to rubber stamp where you're going. It doesn't mean you have to be at loggerheads all the time. But debate is healthy. It's it's not a bad thing. When you hear about some friction, that's good. It makes you rethink the different perspectives in any kind of line of work. I think is healthy. It's part of what teamwork is all about. So I'm glad you drove that home. It doesn't mean that you have to dislike one another. You shouldn't be challenged by someone's difference of opinion. You actually welcome it.

Let me tell you this, that's been that's really been missing, honestly, more recently in the game, people players, I mean coaches are afraid to argue. I think for two reasons. Number one, they really don't know what they believe anymore. Because again I'll go back to my minor league training. I knew what I believed. I knew what I knew based on the mentors that I had coming up. I knew that I was firmly entrenched to be the guys today. A lot of them have not spent enough time being mentored in the minor leagues by true teachers of the game. My biggest concern is who's passing on the game to the next generation of coaches, Even more than players. Who's the influence, Who are the influencers regarding how the game's being taught now and how that's going to move forward. I'm the influencer now based on nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties baseball and all the people I ran into at that particular junction, and I bring into bear that and combining that with what I've learned since then in a more contemporary approach. Whether you want to call that analytics or not. But I think I'm able to blend both because I've had such wonderful mentors to be careful regarding who's coaching the coaches, who's mentoring that group that's going to bring the game to the next decade or so.

Let me tell you this, that's been that's really been missing, honestly, more recently in the game, people players, I mean coaches are afraid to argue. I think for two reasons. Number one, they really don't know what they believe anymore. Because again I'll go back to my minor league training. I knew what I believed. I knew what I knew based on the mentors that I had coming up. I knew that I was firmly entrenched to be the guys today. A lot of them have not spent enough time being mentored in the minor leagues by true teachers of the game. My biggest concern is who's passing on the game to the next generation of coaches, Even more than players. Who's the influence, Who are the influencers regarding how the game's being taught now and how that's going to move forward. I'm the influencer now based on nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties baseball and all the people I ran into at that particular junction, and I bring into bear that and combining that with what I've learned since then in a more contemporary approach. Whether you want to call that analytics or not. But I think I'm able to blend both because I've had such wonderful mentors to be careful regarding who's coaching the coaches, who's mentoring that group that's going to bring the game to the next decade or so.

Well, Joe, That leads me to our next segment here after a break, we will talk about there will be at least one managerial change, and it's a guy that you have a lot in common with.

Well, Joe, That leads me to our next segment here after a break, we will talk about there will be at least one managerial change, and it's a guy that you have a lot in common with.

We'll talk about that right after this.

We'll talk about that right after this.

Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast and Joe Madden. The parallels you have with Terry Francona are very interesting. You know, Terry hasn't come out and officially announced that he is going to retire, whatever that may be for Terry, but yeah, he's not coming back to the Guardians. Just an incredible career in baseball. You just finished talking about, you know, getting some experience under your belt, kind of learning your way up the baseball ladder. He has done that, not just by playing the major leagues, but he went to rookie ball, he went to a ball, he went to double A three years he was in front office. That was all before he got a job managing the Phillies. And after the two thousand and three season, it's Joe Madden and Terry Francona who are both up for the Boston Red Sox job. Just a loaded team ready to win, as it turned out, and Terry Francona was the guy to get it done. Terry Francona wins in Boston, Joe Madden wins in Chicago with the Cubs too. The longest droughts to the most historical droughts in sports history, those two guys ended those droughts. Terry Francona has a career winning percentage as a manager of five to thirty nine Joe Madden five thirty two. By the way, Francona ejected fifty times in his career in Joe Madden fifty nine, so they've got that as well.

Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast and Joe Madden. The parallels you have with Terry Francona are very interesting. You know, Terry hasn't come out and officially announced that he is going to retire, whatever that may be for Terry, but yeah, he's not coming back to the Guardians. Just an incredible career in baseball. You just finished talking about, you know, getting some experience under your belt, kind of learning your way up the baseball ladder. He has done that, not just by playing the major leagues, but he went to rookie ball, he went to a ball, he went to double A three years he was in front office. That was all before he got a job managing the Phillies. And after the two thousand and three season, it's Joe Madden and Terry Francona who are both up for the Boston Red Sox job. Just a loaded team ready to win, as it turned out, and Terry Francona was the guy to get it done. Terry Francona wins in Boston, Joe Madden wins in Chicago with the Cubs too. The longest droughts to the most historical droughts in sports history, those two guys ended those droughts. Terry Francona has a career winning percentage as a manager of five to thirty nine Joe Madden five thirty two. By the way, Francona ejected fifty times in his career in Joe Madden fifty nine, so they've got that as well.

Of course, we.

Of course, we.

Cannot forget the twenty sixteen World Series Joe madd and Terry Francona go up against one another. The darn series is tied after nine innings in the seventh game. That's how close that series was. So Terry Francona one of the true characters in the game. Besides being just a fantastic manager. I think he's just beloved everywhere that he's been by every player he's had. So I'm interested, Joe in your quick thoughts on Tito and and how long you've gotten to know him.

Cannot forget the twenty sixteen World Series Joe madd and Terry Francona go up against one another. The darn series is tied after nine innings in the seventh game. That's how close that series was. So Terry Francona one of the true characters in the game. Besides being just a fantastic manager. I think he's just beloved everywhere that he's been by every player he's had. So I'm interested, Joe in your quick thoughts on Tito and and how long you've gotten to know him.

Yeah, like you said, I started in zero four when he and I both were interviewed for the Red Sox job. I remember that really, really well, the first obviously big opportunity, and I remember interviewing with THEO Jed and.

Yeah, like you said, I started in zero four when he and I both were interviewed for the Red Sox job. I remember that really, really well, the first obviously big opportunity, and I remember interviewing with THEO Jed and.

Shoot with the Dodgers name Josh Burns.

Shoot with the Dodgers name Josh Burns.

Josh Burns, Yeah, and Phoenix. I remember that interview very well. They put me through a bunch of exercises and I bought a special suit because Blue but basically told me I had to all this kind of stuff. And I sat down in the Phoenician. I think it was, and we talked, and great experience for me, and of course I lost out to Terry, but I was I was. I told THEO later, you did the right thing. You picked the right guy. It wasn't really ready to be in Boston at that moment. I think Tito's experience having been in Philadelphia really played well for him. I think it made him more exactly ready for that particular job as I would have been. So I thought that was a great decision on Theo's choice. Pardon I told him so. Moving forward, though we had match ax to Lockhorns. You know, we talked about the winning percentage of the first two years in Tampa Bay were difficult. Man. We lost one hundred and almost one hundred games his next first two years. And then after that in two thousand and eight, that's when the Rays became good and we played the Red Sox and that was the first big encounter we had was Game seven when we won on that ground ball the hockey and all of a sudden, we're going to the World Series. The thing about like, just like he said, with Tito, you know, there's a character about his group, the fact that they were not afraid, the fact that he was going to be calm, the fact that you had to be on your toes, and all these things that I love when you look on the other side, looking the other dugout talked to him before the game, a little gamesmanship going out. He'd messed with you a little bit, which I loved. But I have so much respect for him and what he's done in the game, and that you're right. His players loved him. His players absolutely adore him, and I think that's because of the communication factor and that he would build the relationships that were necessary. We had that game in common. We had the Wildcard Game also that nobody talks about, and he's with the Indians when we beat them in the Wildcard Game to play the Red Sox. Is that I don't know, but it's that twelve eleven or whatever that year was. That was a big game. That was where we won. I think it was four to one. Alex Cott pitch great. We then played the Red Sox and al Ds and lose. But then eventually he gets to the big moment with the World Series in Game seven. So he and I have had some really big games against one another as managers, and like I said, the respect is enormous that I have for him. If he chooses to do this again, I cannot be happy for him going out on his own terms and thinks it's great. So yeah, he's a special guy. We have a lot of common friends that when I talk to them, they feel the same way. So if he does choose to do this, I wish I'm nothing but the best. But he's been outstanding. Joe.

Josh Burns, Yeah, and Phoenix. I remember that interview very well. They put me through a bunch of exercises and I bought a special suit because Blue but basically told me I had to all this kind of stuff. And I sat down in the Phoenician. I think it was, and we talked, and great experience for me, and of course I lost out to Terry, but I was I was. I told THEO later, you did the right thing. You picked the right guy. It wasn't really ready to be in Boston at that moment. I think Tito's experience having been in Philadelphia really played well for him. I think it made him more exactly ready for that particular job as I would have been. So I thought that was a great decision on Theo's choice. Pardon I told him so. Moving forward, though we had match ax to Lockhorns. You know, we talked about the winning percentage of the first two years in Tampa Bay were difficult. Man. We lost one hundred and almost one hundred games his next first two years. And then after that in two thousand and eight, that's when the Rays became good and we played the Red Sox and that was the first big encounter we had was Game seven when we won on that ground ball the hockey and all of a sudden, we're going to the World Series. The thing about like, just like he said, with Tito, you know, there's a character about his group, the fact that they were not afraid, the fact that he was going to be calm, the fact that you had to be on your toes, and all these things that I love when you look on the other side, looking the other dugout talked to him before the game, a little gamesmanship going out. He'd messed with you a little bit, which I loved. But I have so much respect for him and what he's done in the game, and that you're right. His players loved him. His players absolutely adore him, and I think that's because of the communication factor and that he would build the relationships that were necessary. We had that game in common. We had the Wildcard Game also that nobody talks about, and he's with the Indians when we beat them in the Wildcard Game to play the Red Sox. Is that I don't know, but it's that twelve eleven or whatever that year was. That was a big game. That was where we won. I think it was four to one. Alex Cott pitch great. We then played the Red Sox and al Ds and lose. But then eventually he gets to the big moment with the World Series in Game seven. So he and I have had some really big games against one another as managers, and like I said, the respect is enormous that I have for him. If he chooses to do this again, I cannot be happy for him going out on his own terms and thinks it's great. So yeah, he's a special guy. We have a lot of common friends that when I talk to them, they feel the same way. So if he does choose to do this, I wish I'm nothing but the best. But he's been outstanding. Joe.

I see a lot of similarities with you and Terry and the way you guys manage your ball clubs and connect with players. It starts with honesty. I mean I always said that was the number one trade of Joe Tory. Players knew that whatever he told them, there was no agenda behind it. It was the honest truth. And sometimes maybe it was not great news. You didn't want to hear that you weren't playing or drop from the rotation, but you knew it was coming from a genuine place.

I see a lot of similarities with you and Terry and the way you guys manage your ball clubs and connect with players. It starts with honesty. I mean I always said that was the number one trade of Joe Tory. Players knew that whatever he told them, there was no agenda behind it. It was the honest truth. And sometimes maybe it was not great news. You didn't want to hear that you weren't playing or drop from the rotation, but you knew it was coming from a genuine place.

Terry frank Cone is the same way.

Terry frank Cone is the same way.

I think he allows players to be themselves, encourages it that the best version of yourself, the most productive version as a baseball player, is going to be a guy who's able to be himself and not fit into a system doesn't have a lot of rules, and I know you're big on that. Give players a freedom to really express themselves and be themselves as long as they're putting the work in no problem.