The Book of Joe with Joe Maddon and Tom VerducciIn this episode of 'The Book of Joe' Podcast, Joe Maddon and Tom Verducci prepare for the World Series between the Dodgers and Yankees. Joe talks about the history of the teams and the legacies of the matchup. What should you expect to see from Shohei Ohtani and Aaron Judge? Joe explains how we would approach both as an opponent. Plus, find out who Tom and Joe ultimately see winning the series!
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The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.
Hey Daron, Welcome back.
It's the latest episode of the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Producci and of course Joe.
Madden and Joe.
Both of us are old enough to remember when the Yankees played the Dodgers back in the late seventies into nineteen eighty one. But if you're under the age of forty three, this World series is something that you've never seen, and you probably might not know. You are in for a real treat. How about Yankees Dodgers again in the World Series.
Joe, no question, you go back to the you know, reggis monumental performance with the home runs on three consecutive pitches, to the feistiness of the whole thing. It was always a feisty thing, even going back to the Brooklyn days. Fortunate enough that I knew Buzzy Vesey. Of course, we knew Don Zimmer, new Preston Govez, who knew Walter Alston. I mean, you have all these six degrees of separation connected somehow. Remember the black and white videos, Remember all of that stuff. Man, That's the part that the really romantic part of the game, that today's generation doesn't quite get to understand is how we grew up and what really attracted us. And it's still part of our fabric and how we view it constantly. And that's why when you get accused of being old whatever, just the fact that it was spectacular. It was larger than life, the players were the players were not human as far as I concerned. They were not When you went to the ballgame and you saw them out there, they still weren't human. There was that component to it that will never be recaptured. So when you get down to these two teams getting after it right now and with the cast of characters that they got, it's pretty special.
Yeah, there's no doubt.
And it's great for baseball if you're a fan, even if you're not a Yankees fan or a Dodgers fan, to see Shoe Otani and Aaron Judge get to the World Series for the first time. You want to see the best players on the biggest stage, and we've got that in the series. We've got amazing venues Dodger Stadium with these five o'clock starts specific time, it's just spectacular to see the sunset behind the San Gabriels and just the kind of tinge of sunlight at the end of the day there. It doesn't really affect the play of the game because the shadows are really not enforced at that point, but just the beautiful setting everything about it.
It should be an epic series.
But Joe, let's talk about how these two teams got here first, and then we'll talk about how we think the series is going to go. I think about the managing job that Dave Roberts did in this series. In the NLCS, now you can tell me the Dodgers were a better team than Mets.
Buy that.
But the Mets had a lot of momentum. They were the hot team. I love the way they were playing baseball. Maybe not that depth of bullpen, but everything else they matched up well against. The Dodgers had to win a series, and going back to actually an elimination game against the Padres, three of his eight games were bullpen games, including clinchers, and I look at the way he did that, where in the LCS his starters gave him only twenty and one third innings over six six games. They never lost the lead in the four games that they won.
Joe, it's hard to do.
You know that, because all it takes is one guy in your bullpen who's going to slip up, And that happened in Game two when Andrew Knack went out there and was pretty much gassed the rookie pitcher, and the Mets hung five on him. But tell me a job that Dave Roberts did here, because he has not gotten a lot of credit over the years with the record that he has, which is amazing. I thought he pulled off an incredible job. But what he called threading the needle. They decided before the series they were not going to chase deficits of four runs or more by using their high leverage guys, and they let a couple of games get away, and that happened in two and five. But when he got the six, he had to totally rest bullpen is high leverage guys, So.
I thought, managing job.
But Dave Roberts was as good of a series as anybody on his active roster.
Yeah, that was was really well done. And they knew they had to do that based on the limiting limited starting pitching that they had just based on injuries, so of course they did.
They did a great job.
He did a great job of prepping before the game, because that's all that's all prep work. I mean, there's you have to make decisions in a moment, of course, but you really need to lay that kind of stuff out in.
Advance in order to have it slow down.
If you're just going to wait to react in the moment in the game with all those different items going on, to get kind of quick and then you get to the point where you could vacillate on a decision or try to pick between one or two guys. It was something you have to do in advance, and it really appeared to me as though he did and they did, and that it came down really well. The thing that really stood out to me about David and this series was even your little interviews with them during the game, in between innings whatever. There's a on this about him, not that there's not always been, but Dave speaks really well, he sees very good, he's eloquent. But also I thought his method regarding you know, it was a low heartbeat for him. Also, after all, he's the guy that stole the base that put the Red Sox in.
The position to win a couple of years ago.
So that's what really stood out to me was how he approached it, because when things get crazy, especially in those games, I promise you, if there's twenty five guys on the bench, fifty eyes are looking at you when things don't go well. And so beyond everything else that he did and did well and they did as a group, because it's not easy to find that many solvent relief pictures that are even ahead guys that could produce the way they did, it's the way he did it, and that's what really stands out to me, and that really screams a little bit of the fact that he's been there, done that before. He wasn't going to let it get too quick on him, and a lot of not being too quick is about prepper. So there's so many different positives you could say about that. But he did a magnificent job and so did they.
Yeah, I mean, you think about it.
He was down a couple of those high leverage guys, with Alex Vessi and Bruce dar Gratterol not able to play physically. Daniel Hudson pitched game one and was already out for game two. He couldn't go back to back, so he was really limited. So then you saw a game like Game five, where you've got an offense. Let's face the Dodger scored more runs than any National League team in a postseason series.
You're never out of it with that offense.
And there was a game where in Game five, where Mookie Betts at the home run and all of a sudden, it's like a four run game. Your offense is coming around, and he still left Brent Honeywell out there, and I think it took some discipline to do that, to not chase four runs with his high leverage guys, and you know, he took some grief for.
It, but in the end it worked out.
Yeah, well you have to you consider this too. We talked about the pitching and the injuries whatever, but the offense roasted the occasion, right. I mean, they did up and down that lineup. I mean, I would almost believe they got together in their meetings and said something to the to the effect that, listen, boys, you know we're hurting here pitching wise. These guys are going out there. A lot of them were on fumes and we're okay, you know, we're we're in pretty good shape from a position player perspective. So I really, you know, really great players have this dimmer switch and where there's they don't just turn things on and off. They could, you know, if they're tired, fatigue, whatever, maybe it's not a full blast, but they turned that sucker up because that whole group, whatever that dimmer switch was capable of, was on full blast. So I think the offense really knew that they had to do something special and they did.
Yeah, it's a great observation, Joe, because you know, in the past years with Died your teams we rightly and probably wrongly, so we associate them with Hollywood, not you know, a bunch of stars, not necessarily a team. You know, in the last I want to say month and a half, this team has really bonded to the point where when they flew from Los Angeles to New York for the middle games of the LCS, they basically told this staff and the families, you are flying on a separate flight. It was a player's only flight to New York, which I've never heard of before, and that night when they got in they had a player's only dinner. There's been a lot of bonding that's been going on with this Dodger team, and I think you're seeing that show up with the way they're playing offensive baseball, I mean their offensive series and against the Mets. And listen, the Mets had trouble all year walking people, and it was a bad matchup to begin with as many batters as the Mets walk and as disciplined as Dodger hitters are.
You knew that was going to come into play.
But I thought offensively, the way they played baseball up and down was spectacular, and by the end they actually got the bats of Taska Hernandez and Will Smith back, so they have to feel even better going to the World Series. Let's talk about how the Yankees got there, Joe, Listen. I think the path opened up for them with Kansas City and Cleveland. Taking nothing away from those two teams, but the Yankees had the best record against the Central Division than any team against any division this.
Year, and that carried through the postseason.
But I gotta tell you the way that it ended with the Wan Soto home run, that was, in my opinion, when I have been watching baseball, the worst pitch call I have ever seen in a key spot. I'm on a flight flying out to Los Angeles and I'm watching on game day MLB game day. So I don't see the video, but I can see the pitches and where they are the strikes one one hundred.
Gaddis is throwing change.
Up sliders, change up sliders all down the zone, and I'm thinking to myself, with each one, stay there, don't even try to throw a high fastball to this guy.
Don't try to waste one.
Don't think you're going to fool him with all of a sudden dropping in a fastball.
And what does he do.
He throws a high fastball to the best fastball hitter on the planet, and we won. Soto won the series right there with that swing. If your bow nailor, and you saw him rise up, Joe, you cannot call for that pitch.
I'm sorry.
We've seen it, do it against ver Lander in a postseason, against Garrett call in the postseason. He has ten postseason home runs and eight of them are on high fastballs. I just do not understand that. Talking to some Dodgers people the next day, and they said, listen, there are some pitches that we call red blinking lights. No matter what happens, no matter where the count goes, no matter what you think the hitter might be sitting on you cannot throw one of those pitches, and a high fastball to bon Soto is a red blinking light. I think that's a terrible way for the Guardians to have to go home on a pitch that you just cannot throw onn Soto.
I cannot agree more. I saw that you're right, and it's the.
Old Vladimir Guerrero deal for me. When we played against vlad, I used to tell our pitchers, don't ever think you have him set up for anything. Don't ever think that he's not. You may think that, you may you know, whatever your history tells you, your wonderful career highlights for you tell you, don't ever think he's set up for a pitch.
If he can reach it, it can get smoked. Just know that.
So when you get to that two strike situation with lad make sure that he can't reach it. That's what I describe it when, especially when he was hot, don't let him reach it. When the situation like you're talking about, that's that's where I love like talked about him off and Mike Borsello on the bench in a situation that hot, I don't mind my catcher peeking in.
I really don't.
I kind of like it actually, And of course I want my pitch, my catcher to call the game in conjunction with the pitcher. I want all the work done before the game. I don't it does. You don't have to in the NFL. You don't have to send every play, and I don't agree with that. But when it gets really hot, the peek in's not a bad thing. And we had this mechanism in Chicago where he could peek in and whether it was Rossy Mickey or Wilson Contraras, they would look and Borzi always knew what that blinking red light was and that pitch would not be thrown.
I could not.
I mean, listen, I saw it. And then even for that matter, I mean the home run by Stanton on the hanging slider. I know he chased a couple, but that's great, and so the next one cannot be where that one was. I'm just saying that you can't make those kind of mistakes. You could bounce it, you could throw three feet outside, you couldever you want, or you can just walk them. But those are the kind of mistakes that beat them up right there. That's why they eventually were eliminated. There's some really obvious mistakes. And I'm not blaming pictures, I'm not blaming anybody. I'm just saying when you get to those points, you got to make better decisions. That's based on like the blinking red lights, and in game, you gotta communicate with somebody that really knows what's going on on your bench, I think, especially with the information available and the kind of work that's done before the game. So I often talked about teams got borzelloed when I would watch this whole thing unfold from the bench with the with the cubby. So that's what I saw, And yeah, it was really a badly chosen pitch.
Yeah, I actually went back and thought about the other one that comes to mind. Nineteen eighty eight World Series Game one, Dodger Stadium. Yeah, Ack against Kirk Gibson, where Kirk Gibson just was fighting off fastballs late to the ball, fouling them off, and that basically got tired of Gibson just spoiling pitches and decided I'm just gonna throw a backdoor slider, of course, and it really it sped up his bat.
It was the only pitch he could really hit. For a home run.
You know, the fastball he might have hit for a single, grounded something through somewhere, bloped something somewhere. But after those fastballs, and I forget how many in a row he threw, he just he literally got tired of Gibson to be in the box and said, I need to basically throw a literal wrinkle to this guy and boom, history gets made that way that happens.
You're exactly right, and that always bothers me when a pitcher.
Thinks he has to do something else.
Now you'll see, like you said, there's some there's some guys in today's game too. They can't catch up to a fastball. They have a proverbial slider speed back. And then when you thrown a couple in a row, then you think, my god, I have to throw it.
I have to do something differently. No, you don't, you don't.
You just have to locate that pitch, maybe just a little bit better that you know, is the better pitch to throw to him. If you choose to go to Plan B, it has to be strike ball. It has to be You cannot be ball strike Guys that really hammer breaking balls. And furthermore, if he's falling off fastballs. Gibson is two things right, he might not be able to catch up. And then one number two, he's just sitting on breaking ball too. Miguel Tahata infamous at that, really really good at that where he would sit break the ball man, and I promise you it would look bad and then all of a sudden you you'd make the mistake and then it'd get loud and steroly Marte he likes I believe he likes middle of the field with two strikes. He likes soft with two strikes, He likes middle. These are things that I would watch from the side. So don't you don't have to go to something different if what you're doing is very successful. And don't believe that if the guy's really good at something, you're going to all of a sudden fool him.
You're not. You're not.
These guys are that good. And that was so to prove that out.
Yeah, remind me of Taskar Hernandez. He's exactly that kind of hitter you're talking about Joe where he does not hit plus velocity and the Mets ate him up in that series until the last game. So I don't want to say he has slider bat speed, but he can hit sliders and he can hit mediocre fastballs, but he got bullied with pure velocity. I think the Dodgers know that that's the way Garrett Cole, especially in Verdain, with really good fastballs, are going to attack him.
And you're right.
I think when you have a hole like that, you exploit it and you don't feel like you have to show him something different.
If it is different, like it could be. It's got to move his feet. I mean, you got to be a major league pitcher. You got to have command and control. So you move his feet just you know, get him uncomfortable. Or if you're going to throw that break the ball, it's got to be a strike ball. It's got to be it's got to be almost bouncing. It's got to be in the dirt. It's got to be like six to eight inches outside, just to make him, you know, differently, just set that clock in his head a little bit differently.
But to think you're going to full people.
And I mean, rid this Vlattie really because I have Glad he is a coach with the Angels in the early two thousands, and I'm watching this stuff, man, and you know, all of a sudden, people think they got this guy set up and wam, he would just smoke something because he could reach it. So it's it's a it's a very frustrating principle for me as a manager, even if I'm not privy to this guy in report beforehand, I can see you can see can't catch up to a fastball. And that's another thing for seamed fastball. I know it's straight, but I'll tell you what it gets on and hit it pretty quickly. The two seamer little flatters sometimes run into a barrel. The picture thinks he sees and he does see movements, so he thinks it might be somewhat better. Four seemers that get on the guy quickly and get to that spot quickly.
That's the wind.
A lot of times he hitters have a hard time catching up too. It's it's frustrating, man, because I promise you I go through these conversations on the bench all the time when you know you're not even privy to the pregame and you know you know what you're seeing.
It's a lot of we're getting into the funds part now, Joe, We're gonna get into the matchup.
How do you pitch to Otani?
How do you pitch to judge phbably, to John Carlos, Stanton red hot and what do you do about him? Oh, we got a lot to talk about here, matching up the Yankees Dodgers World Series. We'll dive into the matchups right after this. Welcome back to the World Series edition of the Book of Joe podcast. Joven talking about matchups and watching show. Hey, and he's just been amazing it. He almost seems to will himself on base, which he has done. You got to make seventeen times in the NLCS. That's a Dodger postseason record. Was in the middle of a lot of rallies. But here's what I noticed here. You can pitch to him. You know his damage is mostly up. You cannot go up, you cannot go in if you put the ball down the show, Hey, Otani, you've got a chance.
And looking at his numbers, that bears it out. In the regular season.
In the postseason, he's zero for ten on anything that's along that bottom rail of the strike zone. Now, I know he's too good of a hitter, Joe to pitch to him one way, but he's another guy I don't want to challenge him up.
If I'm the Yankees, I'm.
Playing keep away basically hard away, soft down. Tell me what you see of a Tani playing now in his first world series and really is standing out in his first postseason to nobody's surprised.
Yeah, if you're gonna go up at all, it's got to be from what I'm seeing elevated in it's your only possible chance, although he can get to that if he's really cheating in that area. The big thing about this for me would show I'd like to see him be a little bit more patient in this series, and everybody's talking about what he's unable to do with nobody on base, I think he'd be accept a couple of walks, especially early. He's going to start seeing more pitches that he kind of likes and he's not going to miss him. But if he keeps his strike zone rather large, and again I know he's done all this damage and with people on base, I get up, and in general's terms, if he wats just a little bit or just shows a little bit of patience, he's really going to go off. In this series. He's going to cover a lot of these different things as they can't. Pitchers can't continually make great pitches. They might make it a one or two whatever, but at some point it's just not going to go exactly where they want to, and he is going to cover it. So from his perspective, more patients, I believe from the other side perspective, if they do want to go elevated fastball, it's got to be I think close enough to him that he can't really extend to it. But overall, I mean he watched the lefties, I would sweep slider him to death as a lefty, and as a righty, I would down in a way change him to death, change up him to death, or breaking ball on the deck on the ground. If the guy likes a low ball, go lower than that. You know, if a guy likes a high ball, go higher than that.
Again, So if they either want to elevate, it's got to be like a.
So high that you just really can't get to it chase what he likes. So it's either low low, or it's way above but elevated in and for show to be really successful, I think in this series, if you were to be if he shows patients coming out of the shoot a little bit heads up.
Yeah, which always to me, And you know, as a manager, Joe, when you go into a series where there's that one guy you need to account for. The Mets, to me did not have anyone who really matched up well against Shoe. This Padres did with Tanner Scott. Now you look at the Yankees and they expect that Nestor Cortez is going to be back on the roster. He might be that guy. Now, I don't know whether he replaces Tim Masa on the roster or he adds a third left to that bullpen. But you've got Tim Hill as well. But I think I agree with you, Joe. You're talking about the slidering him to death. Probably the sweeper of Cortes. I know, Tani is where Aaron Boone wants to go.
Yeah, I mean they have to be, of course they are. They're they're analyzing all this. They've been they've been on top of this for weeks, anticipating the Yankees being there and for both sides, and they've they've anticipated the Dodgers being there. So yeah, I mean it's at this point here again it's you.
You can't get cute.
You got to go and believe whatever you believe in. When you're looking at your pot, if you don't commit to it, it ain't going in the hole. So whatever you believe in, you got to commit to it. Now, that doesn't mean you're not going to make a mistake, of course you are. Of Course he's going to try to do this and it's not going to happen. The ball is going to go far, of course, But as long as you have a committed plan that everybody buys into and you believe this is accurate, stay with it, go with it. It's not always going to be perfect. But if your process, and I use the term process, is fearless. If you really stay with this process, meaning that you're not going to get caught up and results and outcome all the time, and you're able to you're done better, able to put fear in your back pocket, or you're not concerned about making a mistake. You're just going to go out there and do what you're capable of doing, because that's where all your focus is lying. That's what they have to be able to do in this situation.
I believe Aaron Judge had an amazing year at the plate obviously, but especially for me Joe in terms of his plate discipline career low. I think he was on the eighteen percent chase rate. That's elite. You watch him here in the postseason, he's way above that. I think the last time I checked, he was around the twenty seven percent chase rate. You know, what are a judge if you can it's harder to do than plan for. But if you can dot the ball down the way in that box right hand corner there away from judge, you.
Got a chance.
Whether it's fastballs, especially sinkers, backdoor sinkers, or sliders, keep.
The ball there. You limit his damage.
But lately he's been chasing the ball under the zone, which he normally doesn't and a little bit farther off. He's the guy's hitting two three in his postseason career, Joe, it's more than two hundred played appearances. Now he does have some home runs. That's always the danger with judge. When he's not going well, you make a mistake. It's not a base hit, it's a home run. But tell me what you see at a judge, And if you're the Dodgers, how do you take advantage of a little bit more aggressiveness you've seen from him?
That's his patience. I mean, you don't have to throw them. Don't throw them strikes until you have to. Especially if you said saf you get ahead, once you get ahead, that I really would strike ball, strike ball, strike ball as often as you can per pitch. And from Judge's perspective, it's just got to be a more patient approach.
It's not unlike Show.
Hey, right now, as far as I'm watching, both of them can maintain their patients and force pictures more over the plate. It's hard because then you're al you're relying on the guy coming up after you. But I mean, if you're just going to be an out because if you're not getting what you can absolutely handle and drive, it's it's frustrating to the hitter, of course it is, and that's what causes the expansion, but you're not.
Really helping your team.
Want to help your team, but you're not by saying, I'm just going to expand my zone right here. So similarly, I think both Show and Judge have to show patients early in the series. They have to force pictures over the play and mistakes are going to happen, and you got to be ready for the mistake. You're down in a way. It's got to be tough. He's tall, showy, same thing, he's tall.
They like they they like the ball up in.
The zone even when they if he's noticed what especially judge how he lays back and even show they're still able to get to the elevated pitch. It's really uncanny how they can do that. But they're tall people, so yes, spend a lot of time, both of them. I would think, you know, if you want to talk to anything about with your hitting coaches, about really becoming more finite, my strike zone, really becoming more selective, and you could actually kind of like try to guess where they're going to go and really hunt that area and discipline yourself to the spot. You don't want strike ball, I got to stay away from it. Ball strike you got to be really ready for. And a lot of times the ball strike is taken because the guy you think's going to be inside where it's going to be high, and all of a sudden it becomes a strike. These are the kind of conversations I think I would have with these guys under these circumstances.
Yeah, we talked about this before too, Joe that watching Kansas City and Cleveland pitch to the Yankee lineup. To me, it was not good baseball because they were, I don't want to say, afraid to throw the ball over the plate. You know, got to get pictures more credit than that. But they're trying to get the Yankees out out of the strike zone and that just simply does not happen.
To get yourself into bad counts.
We're looking at the two best teams in baseball in terms of strike zone discipline, the Dodgers and the Yankees. I think the Dodgers know because they play very similar type of offense themselves. You're not going to win this game getting a ton of Chase swings or this series on a ton of Chase swings from the New York Yankees. At some point, you're going to have to control the strike zone. And to me, and you made a good point of this, Joe, it begins with getting strike one and controlling the strike leverage. Then you can get outside the strike zone. To me, that's going to be the key to this series for both teams is early incounts. Controlling those counts that can open up the strike zone, because if you're not aggressive early accounts and try to pitch from behind.
You're gonna get waffled.
Get killed.
That's al stuff from the early two thousands, middle like two thousand and six, seven, eight ninety ten.
That's all it was about.
If you couldn't get those the Red Sox and the Yankees out and in the strike zone, you can't.
You're done.
You're gonna get You're gonna get French fried every night. And that's what you're seeing right here. Also, yeah, strike one is important, so it's the ultimate count. Even on one of the paintings I did with Michelangelo standing with the David on the mount at Wrigley Field, you have Michelangelo whispering in his ear about the importance of.
A one to one count.
When you flip that to one two, it's a completely different world. When it slipped the two to one. Heads up, man, bad things can happen to you. And this is it, I mean, And you're right. It's not that guys are afraid, but they become too fine. And once you do do that, then you are playing into the hands of the group that is very patient to play this.
Your stuff's absolutely oppressive.
The other point about that too, when you're able to throw another pitch, and especially a change up when you get behind an account strike like one O two oho change up strike is.
Really a good pitch.
So if you look at the pitchers that are really able to command a change up when they get behind, and even to the point, like you know, when it's deeper int account, if you could command a change up, that could be very beneficial against teams like this. So yeah, first pitch strike absolutely, really if you could control and command the one one count bully for you. And I've always liked the full count. I've always wanted to do a study on whoever wins the battle of the full counts on a nightly basis, wins the game, whether he as a pitcher of the three twos or you as a hitters as a hitter three twos, who controls and commands a three to two count of always thought place big in victory.
Yeah.
By the way, those full counts, that's considered a hitter's count. You know, the average, especially on base percentage, way in favor of the hitter at that point.
So if you're a pitcher and you can win full counts, good on you.
One more guy that we have to talk about because he has emerged as an absolute beast this postseason is John Carlos Stent and the Dodgers are going to have to account for this guy because he's a different player in the postseason. He's not striking out, which is unbelievable. I think he had a record streak, a personal record streak by not striking out over the course of the postseason year. And he's just hammering baseballs. We know he's got tremendous power, but his swing seems to be in saying. He's not chasing those sliders off the plate like we see him do a lot of times. Tell me what you see from John Carlo Stanton, Joe, because right now I think the Dodgers have to be really, really concerned about him. Cleveland got burned twice when they chose not to walk him. They didn't buy into the fact that he was this hot, and he burned them both times with game breaking home runs. I'm not saying the Dodgers are going to walk him, but they have to look at John Carlo Stanton now as a red hot hitter and not just the guy who's going to chase mistakes.
I think you're going to see the Dodgers come hard in on him a little bit more often. What I'm saying is that he's at the point now everything he's looking at is out over, out over, whether it's a fastball or breaking ball. Nobody wants to finish him inside. I think you have to tie him up. You got to speed him up a little bit to get back to the to the breaking ball stripe. So that's curiously what I would look for Initially from the Dodgers. You're going to see more inside to the point they're not going to be concerned about hitting him. Possibly you know, not that you're throwing at people. But point is, you just got to get in there to the point where give him something to think about, so then you could get the part of the plate back that you want, because that at bat, that home running. The last summer, the picture's name for the Cleveland Indians.
I camera oh by Tanner Biby byby yeah.
Slider, slider. I mean he threw a couple of good ones down the way, down the way. They're actually balls, good, good for you, They were good. And then all of a sudden, when you keep when you keep throwing a lot of sliders. I've always believe in breaking ball, you're gonna hang one and he didn't miss it. So I think that you're going to see more of an attempt to set him up primarily hard in and I mean in, and then get him to chase by opening that up, by speedning his mind up looking at a hard d and then you might be you might get the chase back that you're looking for.
And by the way, you talk about someone who loves hitting at Dodger Stadium, he has the second highest lucking percentage in Dodger Stadium in the history. It's over seven hundred. John Carlos Stanton grew up about sixteen miles from Dodger Stadium. He went there often as a kid.
When he was ten.
Years old, he was out there shagging balls during VP, and he said he was amazed at how the crowd would ooh and add all these balls clanging off the bleacher seats.
And he turned it. He said to his dad.
He's ten years old at the time, and he says, Dad, someday I'm going to hit a ball completely out of Dodger Stadium. And his dad says, yeah, right, sure, go ahead. And then it was I think it was twenty fifteen or so he actually did that hit the ball completely.
It was a fourth ball ever hit out of Dodger Stadium.
They played the All Star Game in Dodger Stadium a couple of years ago. He hits one into those same bleachers where he sat as a kid. He's the All Star MVP. You don't think there's something really special going through his veins when he steps into the box Game one at Dodger Stadium. The local kid who's had such a history here and the memories, Oh my goodness. I mean, John le Carlos Stanton came in red hot anyway, but in Dodger Stadium, it's a fairy tale come true in La La Land for John Carlos Stanton.
Yeah, there's a there's a big everything you're telling.
I didn't realize all of that.
I knew about the ball going out of the ballpark. He didn't know about him and his dad. I didn't realize was that close to Dodgers Day. And there's a lot. There's a lot of emotion in there. There's no question, and while there's emotion, there's also going to be a calmness about him. I think if you think about where you sat with your dad in a ballpark years ago, you talk about the possibly the biggest warm fuzzy you could conjure up. So it's got to put him in kind of a rocking chair, I believe, and he's got to believe that his dad is there all the time with him, whether it's in the batter's boxer, sitting in the stands. It's good, it's it's it's going to play in his favor. There's no question. So regardless of okay, regardless of what I just saidbout how they're going to pitch him, but ball still going to go far to left field when he played at Dodger State, and there's no question.
And Joe, I know you love scouting stories, especially the old guard John Carlos Stanton was a guy who's a three sport player in high school and Pete Carroll wanted him as a wide receiver at USC. He averaged twenty one points of games scoring in basketball.
And junior year baseball.
Junior year at Notre Dame High and Sherman Oaks, he hit basically two hundred hitting out of the seventh spot.
But he got invited to the Area.
Code Games the summer between junior and senior years and during VP. One of your favorite places blair Field, John Carlos Stanton hits it over the fifty foot tall palm trees and left field, over an access road and onto the adjacent golf course. Did that a few times, and all of a sudden he gets on the radar of MLB scouts. Now, he didn't do well in the games, he struck out a ton, but that show he put on in batting practice opened up a lot of eyes, especially for the Marlins, who really liked him. But there's another guy who really liked him, and that was the old scout, George Genevies, and you know him from Giants and the Dodgers, just a legend in southern California circles in baseball, and George love Stanton. He brought him out to Dodger Stadium, worked him out. He's banging balls off the bleachers and he's down on the front office. We need to sign this guy. This is you know, he's got Dave Kyman kind of power. You know he's going to be a great home run hitter. And you get to the draft. The Marlins actually had the twelfth pick of the draft, and they thought that's probably too soon to take Stanton because a lot of people saw a swing and miss. He's not gonna go that early. They took a third baseman named Matt Dominguez. Didn't have much of a major league career, but he did get to the majors. The Dodgers then have two more picks before the Marlins get to their second round pick, and Georgia's dismayed. They passed on John Carlos Stanton. It took a couple of pictures. One was a high school pitcher, Chris Witthrow. He kicked around for a few years out of the bullpen for the Dodgers. The other was a pitcher from the University of Tennessee who never made the major leagues. Stanton falls to the Marlins at number seventy six. And you know the stories about John Carlo hitting home runs at Dodger Stadium. There could have been a lot more of them. If the Dodgers listened to an old scout named George Genevies.
Talking about Wreck golf course recreation golf course in Long Beach. It's right next to the Billy Jean King Tennis Center beyond left field. That Blair You're right for those. If you ever get to Long Beach, just drive on over to blair Field. If you want to see the essence of the minor leagues. It's Long Beach State's ballpark now, but anytime I walked in there, it really reeks of the coolest minor league ballparks I've ever played in. And that's the spot that Kenny RIVISI used to take me to before I would go to spring training to practice my spring training speech that I'm going to give to my guys on the Long Beach State dirt bag. God, I love that place. George Genevies iconic. I mean I knew him, of course with the Giants early on. I love these guys. I mean, these old scouts. When they saw something, they're demonstrative, and he had his comps and he knew what he saw and I probably, of course it bothered the Dodgers eventually, but I know it bothered Georgia a lot. I love those guys. Those guys taught me so much. They're a big part of why I was able to do what I did. And I still contend that if you really want to develop good coaches and managers in your minor league system, have them scout first and have them get out there on a free agent scouting trail in a territory prior to a draft, and really go through this whole experience, because when you get to your team in a season, you're going to be able to make better evaluations on what you're seeing, because then you have a better base to know what's what a really good major league player is going to look like before ever it becomes one.
Blair Field also is where they filmed a lot of the scenes for Moneyball. So how much does Moneyball factor into postseason baseball, especially the World Series. I'm curious to get Joe's take on how to run World Series games from the manager's perspective. We'll do that right after we get back to the Book of Joe. Welcome back to the World Series edition of the Book of Joe podcast. Yankees Dodgers probably two of the most talented teams.
It's a rare matchup.
I think it's only the third and wild Card era where we have the two teams with the best records in each league made it through the minefield of expanded postseason baseball to give us.
An Armageddon World Series. So much fun.
I mentioned Moneyball, and we all love the numbers. In the fact we talked about Wan Soto hitting high fastballs. The numbers should convince you never to throw him one, so no one wants to disregard those. But a couple of things to keep in mind here. First of all, the Dodgers are to me they're giving Will Smith, their catcher, who's really grown into a really good game caller, a little more leeway, and how they run games. I think, in talking Dave Roberts, the Dodgers went a lot more by script in years past, but slowly they've sort of morphed into more of a combo, a hybrid, if you will, where Will Smith is not always checking that wristband before calling a pitch, he's reading hit or a swings and how they react to certain pictures. And I think the Dodgers have done a really good job in this postseason doing that. I think they're more adaptable team. And on the other side, I think about the advice Joe Tory gives to Aaron Boone, one of his former players, and he tells them he told Aaron Boone before this postseason, don't forget your instincts, especially a guy like Boone, who's a third generation major league star who's been around the game since he's had diapers and swinging a with a ball bet And Tory's point basically was trust what you see, because why would you run away from all that experience. It doesn't mean you go off to handle and just do something on a whim, but it means that you react to what you see and calling a game and putting plays on or making pitching decisions.
And I think you're seeing that with Aaron Boone.
I think he's done a really good job, especially with his bullpen decisions in the postseason. My goodness, they closed out the American League Pennant Joe with Cousins and Kinley and Weaver and Hill. I mean, these guys were cast offs from other organizations, so I think I think Boone didn't need to be reminded of that by Joe, but he certainly. I thought I said the right hand in making decisions totally.
But I always told my guys in the plash before the games began, was that things are going to go bad. At some point, They're going to go bad, and at that particular point, we got to continue to fight through this.
You have to be fluid. You just have to be fluid.
You always love to run according to a script, but the script's going to get blown up at some point. Theory in reality rarely come together. The one piece of advice I'd give my guys before we would begin was that, and we have to be ready for it. We have to be adaptable. You know, absolutely can never give up. You never quit on this thing, but understand that it's not always going to be perfect, and so go into it knowing that patience.
There's less patience.
In this a meaning that as a manager you have to be somewhat more aggressive, and especially as the games get deeper, whether you're down two to one, three to one, whatever, you have to get even more aggressive than that. So there's a less patient approach to managing the game. And from a perspective regarding just to remind the resilience that got you here to begin with, things are going to go bad and we're going to have to fight through that final point.
You brought it up in a bit. You know, we've talked about this forever.
Yes you've got to pay attention, and yes you've got to follow your instincts and your wisdom and your years of experience. And it's when you just can never run away from that and after all, that probably the main reason why you're at that particular position that you are. And I love the Dodgers permitting their catcher to go off script once in a while based on what you're saying one hundred percent, and that speaks to trends and where the big picture doesn't necessarily always come into lights. Guys get hot, guys get cold. A judge right now. Would you ever walk so to to pitch the judge during the course of the last season, of course not, but he's cold right now.
So they did that.
Follow your trends, what do you see make adjustments? It just can't be based on math completely and only it's not infallible. And actually analytics, to me are very They really are a very fluid method of preparation for a Major League baseball game. So that's kind of a wide ranging answer, but those are the kind of things going into less patient, be prepared for.
Something to go bad and fight through it.
And yes, I want you always to bring you to the table. I don't want you to go out there uptight, or I don't want you to go up there feeling you cannot trust or follow your own instincts. If something's really screaming at you.
I want that.
I want you to be a baseball player, and I'll never want to get in a way of your greatness.
Now, let's talk about how the managers run these games. We'll start with Dave Roberts and the Dodger. Listen, he's in a bit of a pickle again, you know, in terms of threading the needle here, He's got Yoshinobu Yamamoto, who has not pitched more than five innings since June seventh. He's got Walker Buehler, who in his last start lasted four innings through about ninety pitches and was guessed. He's got Jack Flaherty, who, in his second start in the NLCS against the Mets really had to minish stuff. I'm talking about a fastball down two miles per hour, a slider had really no bite to it. Kervebaugh did not have the same kind of break to it. That seemed to be alarming for a guy who's throwing the most innings he has in the last five years. That's it, that's his rotation. He's going to have to plan for at least one or two bullpen games.
Again.
My guess is he probably goes bullpen game for Game two with the off day on the other side, I don't think he can go bullpen game Game three three because that's the first of three straight games. And if you're wearing out your bullpenning game one, which is game three, where are you for the next two? So that that's a tough way to go, Joe. But listen, he threaded the needle last time. Vessia would come back and be a good option for help because he can get you more than three outs. By the way people talk about Vessia on Soto, no, I.
Wouldn't do it. You know, his best pitch is the high fastball, and it's a disappearing one. I get it.
I'd rather have Graderol with his power sinker or trying it, of course with his sweeper Vessia just because he's lefty on Soda, I wouldn't do that. But anyway, that's that's where I'm at. On Dave Roberts, Joe, I mean, how do you see how he threads the needle this time?
Let me ask you this.
First of all, when it comes down to the roster construction, is there limits on how many pitchers you could have and compared to position players or is that not a rule right now?
That's a good question. I think it is fourteen.
Fourteen pitchers, max pitchers the twenty six. So if he went with three starters, he could basically have eleven relief pictures.
Yeah, I mean I would. I would look for them to do something like that.
I mean because yeah, I watched Flarty, uh and I love this guy with the Cardinals. I thought he was such a great athlete too, But the thing that happened to him eventually that to his demise, there was the command of everything. The guy's tremendous. Guy could hit, he could run, you could do all those kinds of things. But I'd really be concerned about that and the other guys like you're talking about, coming off an injury and just not stretched out to the point that they need to be. So I would really watch for them to go heavy, heavy, extra arms and not really be concerned about starting pitchers. You might see a completely different breakdown in regards to how you set up your particular team. Pinch any wise, who do they pinch it for?
I don't think they do.
Really do they pinch it a whole lot, if at all.
Yeah, they would pinch it for the bottom of the lineup. Pinch it for Chris Taylor if he's in there against them.
Okay, that's one.
That's one, not a whole lot, though, You're right.
Yeah, I mean I think they did needed the extra catcher, of course, and they were just really pinpoint exactly who they might pinch it for. But you might just see literally eleven relief pitchers on this team. If you're in fact, you could go fourteen, and that would be their way to circumvent all this and really give you the possibly back to back bullpen games.
Well, I mean you're talking about a team the last round again, they had twenty and one third innings from their starters in six games, three in the third innings, right, I mean you've got a bullpen that's been picking up basically two thirds of the game for you. I mean you listen, you won a series in six games doing that. Now you have to do it again against the deeper Yankees lineup.
That that's a challenge to me.
So if they've got ves yet, they've got Graderol who wasn't pitched in forever, so we don't even know what you know his condition would be.
But I agree with you You're going to have.
To just have waves and waves of relief pitchers to keep these in check, these games of check.
If you're if you're Dave Roberts.
Yeah, the Marquee matchup's not going to exist in this series. It's not Waity Ford versus you know, don Newcome whatever it's there, You're not going to get that Sandy versus whomever in the for the Yankees, male stodom are at that particular time. So it's going to be suspend everything you've always believed in with starting pitchers right now in this series, at least from the Dodgers side of things, the Yankees are in a little bit better shape, especially if Cortes as well and he's able to throw up to his standards. I mean that that's a big get for them. But I think you're going to see something completely off the wall from the Dodgers right now. I don't know that they could comfortably feel confident about any of those guys you just talked about, except my Moto. Maybe you know, he doing five, maybe even six if the guy's on. I mean, he showed some he showed some decent stuff the last time I watched them. But the other guys, it's hard to imagine. So you're going to see a bunch of relievers and relievers that they're going to stretch out a little bit more like the just one one in the third. They're gonna look for the two any guys here and that guy's got a bit deeper farther. If in fact there cruising and they look kind of good, they're gonna need, like you said, they're gonna need strike throws there. Their whole process is gonna have to be around people that they believe can get hitters out within the strike zone. That's gonna be a big part of the conversation. If they have to rely on any of these relief pitchers to be chase kind of guys, they're not. They're gonna shy away from them, unless they're just gonna look at maybe one guy, maybe one real long guy, the guy that's just gonna suck it up, get his brains beaten out to save everybody else.
Are gonna have to consider that too.
But I think you're gonna see a heavily laden bullpen structure to the Dodgers' roster.
Yeah, the key for.
Me is Dave Roberts drops into start game three. First of all, it's a tough assignment. Game three, you know, first World Series game at Yankee Stadium since two thousand and nine. Listen to Dodgers playing their pressure all the time. I get that, but there's something different.
You know this Joe.
About going into the ballpark in the Bronx in that situation. But it's also key because you can't really have Yamamoto there because he needs at least five usually six days of rest. So he's not really an option for seven. If you start him in three, you know you've got Flaherty and Walker Buehler. He needs somebody who can come back just in case you get to seven. That can't be a bullpen game, as I said, So he's really hamstrong with the amount of options that he has. Maybe he goes Yamamoto in in game two bullpen one. I don't know, but he's got to figure this out because he's limited with Yamamoto can't come back on the fifth day, doesn't give you a lot of length anyway, has to have some bullpen games with some room either before or after.
It's a tricky situation for Dave.
I see, I could easily see them going bullpen first game no question. That does not even and I'll even say this, if the bullpen goes good in the first game and they have planning left over in the second game, you might see it back to back. I think they're going to be very fluid with this. They're going to go that direction. I just if I'm them to just try to in advance because they don't want to get behind in these games either. So if you're going to start one of these starters that they don't feel really good about and you're going to work into a deficit, I hate. One of my most things I lowered the most is to use good bullpen arms in a big deficit or in a deficit situation. It really bothered me, always has, always will.
So you won't see the Dodgers doing that.
We know that, but I'm just saying, so you may see. You may see bullpen first game. Yeah, Okay, if they win that, then maybe you'll see an actual starter. But if you're to lose that, you might see bullpen again.
I'm it's just this thing is wide open.
They'll reveal there.
They're going to be.
Tied to the best of the very end, but it would not surprise me.
Yeah, I can see that, Joe, Because if you pitch Yamamoto in game two, right then he gets five days arrest before six two off days and three games in between, and that's his schedule.
If you pitch them in one, then he's line up for five.
That's not his schedule. He doesn't have enough rest at that point. So that's a possibility.
I bet on it. I do.
I don't think that they're very comfortable with doing all of that. They just clinched by doing it, so this is it's part of their structure right now. It would not surprise me in the least, and I think that's their best opportunity to get the upper hand.
And if you're Aaron Boone, you know I've talked a lot with Dave Roberts this postseason about the law of exposure, if you will. As the series goes on, the more teams see a relief pitcher, especially the more the balance swings in favor of the hitter, you kind of lose that edge that a relief picture has by just facing a guy once in a while. You've seen this before, you guys did it to Andrew Miller in twenty sixteen. Joe, it seems to be a thing. The Yankees don't seem to be as bothered by that, because they kept matching up play Homes and Luke Weaver and whatnot against the middle of the Cleveland lineup. I don't think Aaron Boone is going to deviate from. But what do you see the keys for Aaron Boone as far as running these games against the Dodgers.
I mean, honestly, it's I would try to extract as much as I can out of.
My starters, number one.
I still believe that's the tried and true best way to go about this. If you could, these guys can get you into the fifth and the sixth inning. That just automatically makes your bullpen better and then then also permits.
You to really match up the way.
Yeah, that's your edge over the Dodgers, right, exactly outlast them and don't expose your bullpen as much.
Right, that's to me the way that they have to want to go about this that requires some patience, requires some good efforts by their starting pitching, of course, which they have, and they can do those kinds of things. So I would really find boonie. Of course, it doesn't always work that way, but you're looking for that and try to be as patient as you can with your starters, because that starters pitching more deeply into games automatically make for better bullpens.
And how do you see the Yankees offense here?
We know that they're a quick strike team, right Joe, it's the whole run ball is huge for them. And it's interesting that we have these two teams with so much power. They do strike out a lot, both teams. You know, we talked a lot during the year and actually the last couple of years about playing postseason baseball, But in this case, it really is true that nothing decides games more than hitting a second home run in a game.
Team is gonna win about seventy.
Percent of the time when they hit that second home run. And the Yankees are not a great situational team. They're not a great base running team, let's face it.
But the big eraser, the great barrel of white out that they have is the home run ball.
So do you think that that continues to play against the Dodgers in terms of relying on the home run ball to win games or they're going to have to do some situational hitting better.
I think it's gonna be more difficult especially you know, if the Dodgers have all these great arms coming one after another, it's going to be harder to square them up. I think I also believe, weirdly that Glaboratorus is a big key to this whole thing. This guy's been fabulous in the leadoff hole, just getting on base, setting tone, providing confidence for the rest of the lineup. I can't be underestimated. You know, we were talking about that earlier this year, about how Volpi was doing that, and all of a sudden, it's Gliber has been this godsend regarding getting on base and then just setting a different mindseter tone to the opposition. You're right, they're bad at base running. They're not even not good.
They're bad.
They make a lot of really bad choices. But that's I mean, who knows how much time they spend with that, how much they really care about it. It's really surprising. But that's one thing I have horror is bad base running. So anyhow, I think Gliber has a lot to do with this how he continues to get on base and set table and create a positive.
Vibe down the lineup.
But I think the home run is going to be a little bit more difficult up and down the lineup for the Yankees, just based on you know, the bullpen arms. Now, they will hit their homers against Flarerty and they're going to hit their home runs against Builder. I just these guys are off right now.
They're going to make mistakes.
But the bullpen guy's going to be tough because they're always going to be seeing different guys presenting differently to them. So I can't say that they're going to just turn into a situation team. I think Rizzo provides some of that example on how to do this, because Rizz has been really doing that well. He's just been just trying to shoot the ball to the left side taking his base hit and that could be impactful and contagious also. But I don't think you're going to see the prolific home run necessarily against Dodger arms when they keep marching them out of the bullpen. But I do think they could up on the starters early.
Should be a great series, Joe, I don't know who you like in this series. To me, it definitely looks like a log series. I can easily see either one of these teams winning this series. The Yankees with their power, I will say that Dodgers probably have more paths to victory offensively than do the Yankees. They're a better base running team, they're a better situational hitting team. But again, that Yankee power can just change everything. I'd be a little bit concerned about how the Dodgers get through these first two games in terms of bullpen usage really set up the series for Dave Roberts. Beyond that, they do have home field advantage. They did that with the best record of baseball. They went the last five games down the stretch and that's why we're starting and probably finishing at Dodger Stadium.
So if there is any edge in this.
Series, and I know when the postseason, the home field vte doesn't mean a whole lot, but when you get to six and seven and you don't have to defend the lead scoring last, I think that is an advantage. I'd give a slight edge to the LA Dodgers.
What do you think, Yeah, it's like you said, it's that close.
I don't know. I mean, I'm even thinking about airplane rides right now.
You know the fact that it starts in LA, goes back easton, comes back, they.
Come back to their own time zone.
It's kind of funky when you start going back and forth like that. It's a long ride, and I know it's first class, and I know it's you know, it's a charter plan. I get all that, but there's a certain amount of fatigue that sits in with that too.
We may even talked about defense.
I mean defensively catching the baseball is going to be obviously really big. Not giving the other side extra outs, walking hitters is going to be really big in this series also, But I can't disagree. I think overarching, the Dodgers have a nice thing going on right now.
They look really good.
I think they possibly have less holes overall than the Yankees do. But again, man, I'm not betting on this series. I don't bet at all anyway, but if I had to pick one, I probably have to go with the Dodgers.
Yeah you sound like me though, Like you can go either way, right I don't feel strongly about the Dodgers, And I think what I like about this series Joe is and we started off talking about this. We've got some of the best players in the game on the biggest stage, and we've seen Solo in the World Series and he has absolutely crushed it. But now we get to see Otani and Judge, and I really do think to oversimplify things that how they respond will have a lot to do with how this series plays out. And I would not bet against either one of them going off and just having an MVP kind of a world series, because they've wanted this moment for their lives, for the whole lives.
They have responded to big moments in the past.
I'd just like to see these great series decided by great players. And it would surprise me if either show Hey or Judge or the MVP of this world series.
Yeah, they're all jacked up, They're ready to go. There's plenty of rest between this last game and the first game of the series. They're kind of on top of their games right now. The big thing to is Freeman. You know, Freddie's going to be well or not with his ankle. How that really plays out, because a well Freeman Freddie Freeman is a big difference maker. I think Rizzo is going to feel better after a couple of days off with his hand, but really Freddie being able to play and playing comfortably without having to constantly think about his ankle could be a big difference maker also in a positive way for the Dodgers.
So we'll see.
But it is, it's a toss up. It's gonna be interesting, It's great for baseball, and I'm really happy to see this particular series for all those different reasons. You've already alluded to that, So it's going to be fascinating the viewership.
I'm really curious to see the viewers.
Well, the two biggest World series in the last generate this last generation is a twenty five thirty years is your World Series in twenty sixteen and the Boston Red Sox ending their curse in two thousand and four. I'd be curious to see if this one gets beyond those two. I think it's got a really good chance of doing that. It's the first World Series, by the way, in which we have a fifty home run hitter on each side. We had one where it was on the same side with Maris and Mammal back in sixty one. But the biggest stars in the game are here on the biggest stage.
Can't wait for.
It, agreed, Man, that's gonna be us saying.
Joe, you've got something to take us out here. I do on this World Series edition of the Book of Joe.
Well, actually I went to the Book of Joe for this one.
I love it. Yeah, I did.
Coach Moore, Tom Moore right now, he's presently with the Bucks.
Oh yeah.
Coach Moore and I became friends a couple of years ago. Came to the Wrigley Field, brought his son, stood with them behind home plate. Coach Moores to do with the glasses down on the tip of his nose is to mentor Manning and Brady and all these guys. But he laid this nugget on me a couple of years ago, and I used it with my team since he gave it to me. But you break, the other teams will through the relentless execution of fundamentals. We're just talking about the lack of fundamentals on the Yankee side when it comes to outcomes to offense, maybe situational hitting, and we're giving a little bit of a fundamental edge to the Dodgers overall. That always sticks with me. And listen, I'm a fundamentalist when it comes to the game of baseball, always have been.
My roots are.
I'm from the East Coast, but my baseball roots are West Coast. I grew up as a California Angel, was mentored by so many great coaches, and these guys were really conservative baseball minds, and I'm so appreciative of that. So the relentless execution of fundamentals. Final point, Pressure is defined individually. Everybody's talking about pressure and expectations. Right now, we've talked about this. Pressure is defined individually. Is a motivator I believe. It is a positive I believe, and it is attractive and you should want to be around it. So you know, you can hear a lot the word pressure, utilize a lot when talking to these teams.
Are about these teams.
It's an absolute positive and it's good, good for them, belly for them. And when it comes down to it, the team that executes more consistently fundamentally because it's so close, should win the series.
I love that, as you know, the great ones regard pressure as a privilege.
They want it, yep, and they thrive in it. And we'll see who does a lot of fun Joe. We'll look forward to it. We will check back in during the course of this world series. It should be epic.
Have fun, Tommy, talk to you soon.
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