The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

Hey Aaron, welcome back.

Hey Aaron, welcome back.

You have found once again the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe, we're getting late in the baseball season. You know how I can tell we're getting down to fewer games. How's that the way managers run games a little more urgency?

You have found once again the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and Joe Madden and Joe, we're getting late in the baseball season. You know how I can tell we're getting down to fewer games. How's that the way managers run games a little more urgency?

Right now?

Right now?

You know about this, you know it's time to start worrying about load management and those things are past, and specifically about bullpen usage.

You know about this, you know it's time to start worrying about load management and those things are past, and specifically about bullpen usage.

And it's interesting to me.

And it's interesting to me.

I look at both the Cleveland Guardians and the Milwaukee Brewers to the biggest I think surprises of this baseball season, and they actually have the two best bullpens in Major League Baseball, and they actually have managers who are first year managers. And I know Pat Murphy had a little run intern manager with the Padres, but first year with team this year in Milwaukee. And of course Stephen Vote in Cleveland. So I'm watching the Guardians playing the Yankees, and last week Vote used his closer, Emmanuel class A, four days in a row, which I didn't even know was still legal in Major League Baseball.

I look at both the Cleveland Guardians and the Milwaukee Brewers to the biggest I think surprises of this baseball season, and they actually have the two best bullpens in Major League Baseball, and they actually have managers who are first year managers. And I know Pat Murphy had a little run intern manager with the Padres, but first year with team this year in Milwaukee. And of course Stephen Vote in Cleveland. So I'm watching the Guardians playing the Yankees, and last week Vote used his closer, Emmanuel class A, four days in a row, which I didn't even know was still legal in Major League Baseball.

But good on him.

But good on him.

Because Class only threw forty three pitches in those four games total, and then against the New York Yankees extra innings, he used his closer for two innings for the first time this year. First of all, that's how efficient Class A is. They did not win the game while Class was in the game. They won the game later because his bullpen did the job again with five shutout innings. Tell me what you see, Joe, as we get to this time of year with bullpens where.

Because Class only threw forty three pitches in those four games total, and then against the New York Yankees extra innings, he used his closer for two innings for the first time this year. First of all, that's how efficient Class A is. They did not win the game while Class was in the game. They won the game later because his bullpen did the job again with five shutout innings. Tell me what you see, Joe, as we get to this time of year with bullpens where.

You may ask a little bit more out of your top guys.

You may ask a little bit more out of your top guys.

Yeah, that's great observation on your point. Of course, the bullpen they run the show. For me, that's the biggest part of the manager's day. The lineup is okay. You know, you make your line up, You look at different information, You know your guys, who's hot, who's not, who needs a rest, whatever, So you make your lineup up. I'd never really thought there was I don't know if there's so much too much credit given to that. Sometimes the only thing I was worried about with lineups was protection, like for a judge, for a trout or KB when he was going really well, something like that. So that lineups are one thing bullpens are completely different. That was the one thing on a daily basis that caused.

Yeah, that's great observation on your point. Of course, the bullpen they run the show. For me, that's the biggest part of the manager's day. The lineup is okay. You know, you make your line up, You look at different information, You know your guys, who's hot, who's not, who needs a rest, whatever, So you make your lineup up. I'd never really thought there was I don't know if there's so much too much credit given to that. Sometimes the only thing I was worried about with lineups was protection, like for a judge, for a trout or KB when he was going really well, something like that. So that lineups are one thing bullpens are completely different. That was the one thing on a daily basis that caused.

Me more consternation than anything.

Me more consternation than anything.

So waking up doing my lineup and then post lineup, looking at the other team and who's available for us today.

So waking up doing my lineup and then post lineup, looking at the other team and who's available for us today.

And how we match this thing up.

And how we match this thing up.

That's the most important thing I think a manager does today. He's got to talk to the media a couple times. Of course, he talks to his players, not on them, but he's got a lot of help from his coaches. You know, when it comes to actual defensive strategy, the manager has little to do with that because he has people in charge of that, and of course they're going to run with that. But the bullpen, to me, should be pretty much the manager's thing. And so yes, it is the time of the year that he gets a little bit more intense. The idea of using somebody too often is four times too often to use somebody in a day's in a row. For me, I learned my lesson from Rafael Soriano with the rays.

That's the most important thing I think a manager does today. He's got to talk to the media a couple times. Of course, he talks to his players, not on them, but he's got a lot of help from his coaches. You know, when it comes to actual defensive strategy, the manager has little to do with that because he has people in charge of that, and of course they're going to run with that. But the bullpen, to me, should be pretty much the manager's thing. And so yes, it is the time of the year that he gets a little bit more intense. The idea of using somebody too often is four times too often to use somebody in a day's in a row. For me, I learned my lesson from Rafael Soriano with the rays.

He came in and talk to me the one day and because we were.

He came in and talk to me the one day and because we were.

Concerned about him throwing too much this and that, and he said, listen, basically, if I tell you I'm good. I'm good, he said. Sometimes on the second day, I don't feel that good, but it's assumed that I should be able to pitch two days in a row. But sometimes I don't feel that great, but I'll pitch, of course. But the third day sometimes I feel even better than I did on the second day. So that's why it's really important to listen to these guys, the veteran relief pitchers.

Concerned about him throwing too much this and that, and he said, listen, basically, if I tell you I'm good. I'm good, he said. Sometimes on the second day, I don't feel that good, but it's assumed that I should be able to pitch two days in a row. But sometimes I don't feel that great, but I'll pitch, of course. But the third day sometimes I feel even better than I did on the second day. So that's why it's really important to listen to these guys, the veteran relief pitchers.

You got to listen to them.

You got to listen to them.

And I do like the veteran relief pictures because they understand the miles on their arm, they know how to take care of things, they know how to get ready mentally and physically. So I'm really really into that with them. So number of days in a row not that big of a deal based on knowing your guys, But you said.

And I do like the veteran relief pictures because they understand the miles on their arm, they know how to take care of things, they know how to get ready mentally and physically. So I'm really really into that with them. So number of days in a row not that big of a deal based on knowing your guys, But you said.

Something there that's the important to me. A number of pitches throng.

Something there that's the important to me. A number of pitches throng.

And I don't know that that's given enough player or thought about often enough. For example, say Joel Prault, who was really good with the Rays and then other teams Washington and others that he after the Rays, Joel was a win inning guy.

And I don't know that that's given enough player or thought about often enough. For example, say Joel Prault, who was really good with the Rays and then other teams Washington and others that he after the Rays, Joel was a win inning guy.

And you know's there's all a lot made of.

And you know's there's all a lot made of.

This and some people complain, why did he leave him out there for another inning? You're talking about Class A right now, But Joel, if he had like twenty four to twenty five, twenty six pitches in an inning, I'd get concerned. Normally bad things happen after that for a one inning guy. So i'd really keep an eye on my relief picture's number of pitches thrown in and outing, and then of course how many days in row I'm going to use them based on that number. So there's a lot of stuff going on there that I would evaluate. So to take the wraps off two winnings, now, I know when I first got or all As Chapman with the Cubs, I was told at that time, you know he's good for two innings, Let go ahead, throw him out there. It's okay. And this was in obviously in August. We just got him put them in multiple innings against the Mariners, and it didn't turn out well. And then Chapie came in and talked to me afterwards and said he really hadn't done that. That's not what I was told that It was that I should be comfortable with it. So we backed off, but I did tell him listen, when we get to the playoffs. Yes, I want to be able to do that with you. He said, no problem, So we built into that. But there's so much going on with the bullpen, guys. It's not just cut and dried. You just can't look at a matrix or a schedule and just say he's only able to pitch so many days this month, and you can't do this many days in a row, et cetera, et cetera. Everybody's different. You have to know your guys, and you have to listen to your guys, especially the veterans. So long story short, that's how I feel about the bullpen and the bullpen this time of the year.

This and some people complain, why did he leave him out there for another inning? You're talking about Class A right now, But Joel, if he had like twenty four to twenty five, twenty six pitches in an inning, I'd get concerned. Normally bad things happen after that for a one inning guy. So i'd really keep an eye on my relief picture's number of pitches thrown in and outing, and then of course how many days in row I'm going to use them based on that number. So there's a lot of stuff going on there that I would evaluate. So to take the wraps off two winnings, now, I know when I first got or all As Chapman with the Cubs, I was told at that time, you know he's good for two innings, Let go ahead, throw him out there. It's okay. And this was in obviously in August. We just got him put them in multiple innings against the Mariners, and it didn't turn out well. And then Chapie came in and talked to me afterwards and said he really hadn't done that. That's not what I was told that It was that I should be comfortable with it. So we backed off, but I did tell him listen, when we get to the playoffs. Yes, I want to be able to do that with you. He said, no problem, So we built into that. But there's so much going on with the bullpen, guys. It's not just cut and dried. You just can't look at a matrix or a schedule and just say he's only able to pitch so many days this month, and you can't do this many days in a row, et cetera, et cetera. Everybody's different. You have to know your guys, and you have to listen to your guys, especially the veterans. So long story short, that's how I feel about the bullpen and the bullpen this time of the year.

Yeah, and I think especially as we get to the playoffs. And that's why I say that. The Guardians, to me, they're a tough matchup for anybody.

Yeah, and I think especially as we get to the playoffs. And that's why I say that. The Guardians, to me, they're a tough matchup for anybody.

You know.

You know.

I know they don't slug a whole lot. I know there's questions about their starting pitching. But to me, postseason baseball has become more and more about bullpen game. And how about this number, Joe. The Cleveland bullpen this year is thirty three and ten. The Cleveland bullpen has lost only ten times this year. If you are in a bullpen game against Cleveland, you are going to lose.

I know they don't slug a whole lot. I know there's questions about their starting pitching. But to me, postseason baseball has become more and more about bullpen game. And how about this number, Joe. The Cleveland bullpen this year is thirty three and ten. The Cleveland bullpen has lost only ten times this year. If you are in a bullpen game against Cleveland, you are going to lose.

Now.

Now.

I know, looking at winning percentage is not the greatest way to look at bullpens, but when you're thirty three and ten, you can ignore that. By the way, going back to when the save stat was introduced in nineteen sixty nine, that's the third highest percentage winning percentage by bullpen, beaten only by Gen marks nineteen seventy six Twins and Red Shandy's nineteen seventy four Cardinals. And let me tell you, folks, those teams threw a lot fewer innings than what we ask at a bullpen's today. So two point six seventy ra best in baseball, thirty three and ten one loss record with a rookie manager running the show in Cleveland. I don't know about you, but I'm impressed.

I know, looking at winning percentage is not the greatest way to look at bullpens, but when you're thirty three and ten, you can ignore that. By the way, going back to when the save stat was introduced in nineteen sixty nine, that's the third highest percentage winning percentage by bullpen, beaten only by Gen marks nineteen seventy six Twins and Red Shandy's nineteen seventy four Cardinals. And let me tell you, folks, those teams threw a lot fewer innings than what we ask at a bullpen's today. So two point six seventy ra best in baseball, thirty three and ten one loss record with a rookie manager running the show in Cleveland. I don't know about you, but I'm impressed.

Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff up and and you know, Voter. Voter's got a got a real good feel for things. He's a great people person. I am certain his communication with all these guys as exemplary. And Carl's there, right, Willis is still there as a pitchy coach, right, yes, Carl, the truth, Willis. I'll tell you a story about him very quickly. He used to pitch for the Angels in the minor leagues, and I used to be a roping instructor. At anytime I wanted to Edmonton, he'd pitched well and then when I leave sometimes not so well. So eventually took a picture of mine out of like one of the programs or guys and taped it to the top of his hat so I could be there with him when I when I actually wasn't love Carl. The truth willis so yeah, there's a lot going on there. And then you can't discount one thing for sure, talent. They have talent man in their bullpen. Those are some really good arms. There seems to be very resilient arms and you know voter Again, like I said, there's a combination with him and Carl his pitching staff, these guys. I am certain that the conversations are very easy, and I would want to believe and bet that these bullpen guys will tell him straight up no, I really can't go toda in and kudos to the front office for listening to them. And that's what appears to be going on right there. Doesn't seem to be dictator if you're letting the class a go four days in a row that normally doesn't happen anywhere else. So there's just a it seems like a good intermix going on. There a vibe within the group, and it's all translating into this really wonderful year that they're having. It.

Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff up and and you know, Voter. Voter's got a got a real good feel for things. He's a great people person. I am certain his communication with all these guys as exemplary. And Carl's there, right, Willis is still there as a pitchy coach, right, yes, Carl, the truth, Willis. I'll tell you a story about him very quickly. He used to pitch for the Angels in the minor leagues, and I used to be a roping instructor. At anytime I wanted to Edmonton, he'd pitched well and then when I leave sometimes not so well. So eventually took a picture of mine out of like one of the programs or guys and taped it to the top of his hat so I could be there with him when I when I actually wasn't love Carl. The truth willis so yeah, there's a lot going on there. And then you can't discount one thing for sure, talent. They have talent man in their bullpen. Those are some really good arms. There seems to be very resilient arms and you know voter Again, like I said, there's a combination with him and Carl his pitching staff, these guys. I am certain that the conversations are very easy, and I would want to believe and bet that these bullpen guys will tell him straight up no, I really can't go toda in and kudos to the front office for listening to them. And that's what appears to be going on right there. Doesn't seem to be dictator if you're letting the class a go four days in a row that normally doesn't happen anywhere else. So there's just a it seems like a good intermix going on. There a vibe within the group, and it's all translating into this really wonderful year that they're having. It.

I don't there's no reason for it to go away.

I don't there's no reason for it to go away.

Yeah, you made a great point about the talent because both Milwaukee and Cleveland they've used their bullpen a lot. Milwaukee is third inning's thrown by relievers and Cleveland is tenth. And you think, well, they're getting overused, right, Well, not really, because both those bullpens are so deep. I mean, both managers have the kind of pictures everybody wants the bullpen. Now, those are platoon neutral guys, and you can really spread the load out among many guys, which is the way forward. Obviously, you'll commonly shrink down your options in a postseason environment, But I don't get the sense that those bullpens are overworked. Another quick story for you about bullpens. Sometimes it doesn't work even when you do the right thing right.

Yeah, you made a great point about the talent because both Milwaukee and Cleveland they've used their bullpen a lot. Milwaukee is third inning's thrown by relievers and Cleveland is tenth. And you think, well, they're getting overused, right, Well, not really, because both those bullpens are so deep. I mean, both managers have the kind of pictures everybody wants the bullpen. Now, those are platoon neutral guys, and you can really spread the load out among many guys, which is the way forward. Obviously, you'll commonly shrink down your options in a postseason environment, But I don't get the sense that those bullpens are overworked. Another quick story for you about bullpens. Sometimes it doesn't work even when you do the right thing right.

Joeys a manager, it's a Scott's Service has.

Joeys a manager, it's a Scott's Service has.

Got a team that's leaking oil. With the Seattle Mariners. They're playing the Los Angeles Dodgers. They've got a lead in the seventh inning by one run. Seventh inning, and the tying run is on second base, and now the Dodgers lineup is flipping over. You know what that means, Oh toany Betts Freeman. Give Scott's service credit because he had his closer ready to pitch in that situation the seventh inning Andres Munos and that's the tying run on second The top of the lineup is turning over. You're not waiting for the game to get to your closer. As they said, the team has really scuffled for the last two months. You need to win in the worst way. You bring in your closer and he gives up to hit the Moki Betts and the game is tied. Next inning, he gives up a home run the Jason Hayward and you lose. I mean he did to me, Joe Scott Service did everything right in that situation. That team has now got from ten games up to five games out in two months, fifteen games swinging in two months in the Ale West for the Seatlea Mariners. I was impressed he was prepared for the situation. I was impressed he pulled the trigger, and then it just doesn't work right.

Got a team that's leaking oil. With the Seattle Mariners. They're playing the Los Angeles Dodgers. They've got a lead in the seventh inning by one run. Seventh inning, and the tying run is on second base, and now the Dodgers lineup is flipping over. You know what that means, Oh toany Betts Freeman. Give Scott's service credit because he had his closer ready to pitch in that situation the seventh inning Andres Munos and that's the tying run on second The top of the lineup is turning over. You're not waiting for the game to get to your closer. As they said, the team has really scuffled for the last two months. You need to win in the worst way. You bring in your closer and he gives up to hit the Moki Betts and the game is tied. Next inning, he gives up a home run the Jason Hayward and you lose. I mean he did to me, Joe Scott Service did everything right in that situation. That team has now got from ten games up to five games out in two months, fifteen games swinging in two months in the Ale West for the Seatlea Mariners. I was impressed he was prepared for the situation. I was impressed he pulled the trigger, and then it just doesn't work right.

Sometimes you make good decisions that they don't work and that's exactly true. Now, I agree with what you're saying there. He was He probably had spoken to him before the game, told him that this might happen.

Sometimes you make good decisions that they don't work and that's exactly true. Now, I agree with what you're saying there. He was He probably had spoken to him before the game, told him that this might happen.

But you always have to consider this and listen.

But you always have to consider this and listen.

This analytically doesn't jibe sometimes, but the Munho's not comfortable with that, you know, like this throws him completely off his comfort sure his rocking chair, and that plays into this, It really does. And I'll discuss that, make that, especially this time of the year, in this playoffs again, your prep for this. It's a different animal mentally, But that's just something you have to be careful with. It's just because even if he got him out in the seventh, they star have to get him probably out in the ninth more than likely. And I agree, this is the chance. Maybe the Knight's not even gonna matter if we don't get him out right now. That too, but it's just not a slam duck. On paper, it looks like it would be, but it's just not a slam duck. Based on human beings not being comfortable or as comfortable in different situations. Just one thing you want, you said prior to that too. You're able to spread out the work when you have a bunch of neutral guys in your bullpen. Neutral guys make the world go round. Those that you get out rightings and lefties, that is a beautiful thing. There's the you know, it's really gone away from the situational anything lefty or righty. It's rare because of the three batter minimum. And for a while the reverse split guys were really interesting to me too, the writings that get out lefties, lefties that get out rightings. But for years I've been our making that argument or that point. If you're really going to do something in the off season, really seek neutral relief pictures. Those are the guys that you worm them up and you put them in a game. You're not worried with a situational writer, left hander or the reverse guy. Once the lineup moves a little bit, you might have warmed them up. The moment goes away, then all of a sudden you don't want them anymore and you move on to somebody else. But you still warm them up. Still warming somebody up counts, and that's one thing that you really have to be careful with, but sometimes is unavoidable.

This analytically doesn't jibe sometimes, but the Munho's not comfortable with that, you know, like this throws him completely off his comfort sure his rocking chair, and that plays into this, It really does. And I'll discuss that, make that, especially this time of the year, in this playoffs again, your prep for this. It's a different animal mentally, But that's just something you have to be careful with. It's just because even if he got him out in the seventh, they star have to get him probably out in the ninth more than likely. And I agree, this is the chance. Maybe the Knight's not even gonna matter if we don't get him out right now. That too, but it's just not a slam duck. On paper, it looks like it would be, but it's just not a slam duck. Based on human beings not being comfortable or as comfortable in different situations. Just one thing you want, you said prior to that too. You're able to spread out the work when you have a bunch of neutral guys in your bullpen. Neutral guys make the world go round. Those that you get out rightings and lefties, that is a beautiful thing. There's the you know, it's really gone away from the situational anything lefty or righty. It's rare because of the three batter minimum. And for a while the reverse split guys were really interesting to me too, the writings that get out lefties, lefties that get out rightings. But for years I've been our making that argument or that point. If you're really going to do something in the off season, really seek neutral relief pictures. Those are the guys that you worm them up and you put them in a game. You're not worried with a situational writer, left hander or the reverse guy. Once the lineup moves a little bit, you might have warmed them up. The moment goes away, then all of a sudden you don't want them anymore and you move on to somebody else. But you still warm them up. Still warming somebody up counts, and that's one thing that you really have to be careful with, but sometimes is unavoidable.

And before with more of.

And before with more of.

The specialization, especially left handers, the left handed specialists, he got burned a lot because you had to get him ready and then his situation popped, but it was gonna pop, and then it went away with double play last out of the inning. But here's Ken Griffy on deck, and I have to have this lefty ready regardless. So that's a really good point that people have to understand. It's just not a slam duck based on a picture getting out of his normal routine preparing to come into a game.

The specialization, especially left handers, the left handed specialists, he got burned a lot because you had to get him ready and then his situation popped, but it was gonna pop, and then it went away with double play last out of the inning. But here's Ken Griffy on deck, and I have to have this lefty ready regardless. So that's a really good point that people have to understand. It's just not a slam duck based on a picture getting out of his normal routine preparing to come into a game.

On the splits, Joe, I mean, just anecdotally looking at relief pitching now, I think it's rare where you actually see somebody who has really extreme splits right and left. I just think the way the game is now and the way technology is, if your guy with extreme splits, you better find yourself another pitch or else you're not going to get a job in the big leagues.

On the splits, Joe, I mean, just anecdotally looking at relief pitching now, I think it's rare where you actually see somebody who has really extreme splits right and left. I just think the way the game is now and the way technology is, if your guy with extreme splits, you better find yourself another pitch or else you're not going to get a job in the big leagues.

And I think this is true.

And I think this is true.

I think you see, you know, guys come up with splitters, right handers getting cutters to try to get left handers out.

I think you see, you know, guys come up with splitters, right handers getting cutters to try to get left handers out.

You can't still sit still in this game.

You can't still sit still in this game.

And the way technology is, you can shape pitches now to get that opposite sided hitter out.

And the way technology is, you can shape pitches now to get that opposite sided hitter out.

If you're a pitcher, I think you have to.

If you're a pitcher, I think you have to.

It's that to me now, Joe used to be kind of a luxury if you have one of those reverse split guys or neutral guys.

It's that to me now, Joe used to be kind of a luxury if you have one of those reverse split guys or neutral guys.

I think it's a necessity now in the game well.

I think it's a necessity now in the game well.

And get yes, And then the three batter minimum really makes that even more profound.

And get yes, And then the three batter minimum really makes that even more profound.

The fact that you have to pitch in blocks.

The fact that you have to pitch in blocks.

There could be a situation with two outs and I bring in the left handed tom Berducci to face David or Tez, and if you get that last out, then I don't have to bring you out in the next sitting and networks. But if many Ramier is the sitting behind him and Tommy doesn't happen to get David out, then all of a sudden, you got to pitch the manny and I don't like that. With these three batter minimum it really it really totally flips strategy. You're digging in blocks and not just individually. Before a game, I would all always take the other team's lineup and I'd write may Leaf pitchers names down opposite guys I liked the match up with, but then eventually it got to I had to really create blocks of three hitters to put my names against as.

There could be a situation with two outs and I bring in the left handed tom Berducci to face David or Tez, and if you get that last out, then I don't have to bring you out in the next sitting and networks. But if many Ramier is the sitting behind him and Tommy doesn't happen to get David out, then all of a sudden, you got to pitch the manny and I don't like that. With these three batter minimum it really it really totally flips strategy. You're digging in blocks and not just individually. Before a game, I would all always take the other team's lineup and I'd write may Leaf pitchers names down opposite guys I liked the match up with, but then eventually it got to I had to really create blocks of three hitters to put my names against as.

Opposed to one on one matchups.

Opposed to one on one matchups.

You know, Randy Choke would have never pitched their hardy picked probably never pitched in the big leagues if that wasn't available. If the situation left hander wasn't something he would not have pitched. Paul Austen Walker, I mean guys like that, Pus the guy that got the last out for the Mets in the World Series, the great left hander.

You know, Randy Choke would have never pitched their hardy picked probably never pitched in the big leagues if that wasn't available. If the situation left hander wasn't something he would not have pitched. Paul Austen Walker, I mean guys like that, Pus the guy that got the last out for the Mets in the World Series, the great left hander.

Jesse Roscally, I mean guys like this.

Jesse Roscally, I mean guys like this.

You know, you just don't know if they'd ever have opportunity based on the fact that they were so heavily specialized, whereas like say Tug McGrath. Tug McGraw is actually better against writings because of the screwball reverse. But anyway, getting off the point three batter minimum really has impacted strategy more than people give a credit for.

You know, you just don't know if they'd ever have opportunity based on the fact that they were so heavily specialized, whereas like say Tug McGrath. Tug McGraw is actually better against writings because of the screwball reverse. But anyway, getting off the point three batter minimum really has impacted strategy more than people give a credit for.

Hey, we also know it's getting late in a baseball season when the talk about MVP awards and who's going to win becomes a lot more serious. I know people like to jump on that bendwagon really early. But we're at that point now where you start looking at true candidates. And I've got a question for you, Joe, and we're gonna answer this question right after this break. Should we just assume that Shohyotani is the national MVP without playing a game on defense or should we look somewhere else. We'll talk about that right after this. Okay, Joe, we're talking about show hey Otani and the MVP race.

Hey, we also know it's getting late in a baseball season when the talk about MVP awards and who's going to win becomes a lot more serious. I know people like to jump on that bendwagon really early. But we're at that point now where you start looking at true candidates. And I've got a question for you, Joe, and we're gonna answer this question right after this break. Should we just assume that Shohyotani is the national MVP without playing a game on defense or should we look somewhere else. We'll talk about that right after this. Okay, Joe, we're talking about show hey Otani and the MVP race.

Obviously he's not pitching. He's rehabbing this year.

Obviously he's not pitching. He's rehabbing this year.

Hopefully we get to see him on the mound again next year, so he's a full time DH. We've never seen a full time DH win the MVP. We've seen guys who dated a lot, like Don Baylor win the MVP, but not for a majority of time and certainly not exclusively. So you have a guy with zero defensive honent is here. Let's face it, I think he's the leader right now. When you think about the National League MVP race, it's shoey Otani. I mean, Katel Marte is right there, I think, you know, but now he's back on the il with you know, pretty serious ankle injury. You've got to think about Bryce Harper and what he's done leading the Phillies. But he had down July and he's trying to claw his way back to get back into that conversation. Francisco Lindor is having a great year with the New York Mets. We don't even know if they're going to be a playoff team or not, which really does matter in MVP voting. Matt Chapman's had a nice year with the San Francisco Giants, but MVP probably not. Marcelo Zuna, another really almost full time DH has had incredible numbers for the Atlanta Braves, and with all their injuries, there's definitely been a lot of value there.

Hopefully we get to see him on the mound again next year, so he's a full time DH. We've never seen a full time DH win the MVP. We've seen guys who dated a lot, like Don Baylor win the MVP, but not for a majority of time and certainly not exclusively. So you have a guy with zero defensive honent is here. Let's face it, I think he's the leader right now. When you think about the National League MVP race, it's shoey Otani. I mean, Katel Marte is right there, I think, you know, but now he's back on the il with you know, pretty serious ankle injury. You've got to think about Bryce Harper and what he's done leading the Phillies. But he had down July and he's trying to claw his way back to get back into that conversation. Francisco Lindor is having a great year with the New York Mets. We don't even know if they're going to be a playoff team or not, which really does matter in MVP voting. Matt Chapman's had a nice year with the San Francisco Giants, but MVP probably not. Marcelo Zuna, another really almost full time DH has had incredible numbers for the Atlanta Braves, and with all their injuries, there's definitely been a lot of value there.

So that brings us back to show.

So that brings us back to show.

Hey, Joe, I mean the idea that you know, a DH, a guy who can between at bats, not worry about playing defense. But can you know, go look at film, you can take a nap in the clubhouse if he wants, that guy cann a d H full time DHB an m VP.

Hey, Joe, I mean the idea that you know, a DH, a guy who can between at bats, not worry about playing defense. But can you know, go look at film, you can take a nap in the clubhouse if he wants, that guy cann a d H full time DHB an m VP.

I guess you have to evaluate, I mean the impact of his offense compared to like the impact of these other guys that you mentioned. Their offense plus their defense, is their defense that impactful to the point where are they just playing defense and they're good or is it are they really difference makers?

I guess you have to evaluate, I mean the impact of his offense compared to like the impact of these other guys that you mentioned. Their offense plus their defense, is their defense that impactful to the point where are they just playing defense and they're good or is it are they really difference makers?

Because show hey, he just sets that whole thing up.

Because show hey, he just sets that whole thing up.

I mean as from the top of the batting order, include a stolen bases, include the just the every the everything, the vibe creates among this group, his team, the eight guys hitting after him, and how they feel about it, how the Dodgers feel whenever they walk in a locker room on a daily basis. Oh, show hey, SI, he's gonna lead off. Okay, don't worry about it, man, we will. We'll take our gloves out in the field. Don't bring gears. We know you're going to pitch for us in the future, but for right now, we got you. We got you on defense. I don't know that if you measure these other guys' impact on the success of their team or or the game, and it's if you combine their offense and defense, if that exceeds just show Hey playing offense, stolen bases, and just what he does to generate energy among his group. I think it's unrivaled. It's it's unparalleled. I just think it's it's different. It's he's Michael Jackson. You know, he's just he's different that you could talk about. You know, Prince was outstanding, but you know, Michael Jackson's like, come on. So I just think that, yes, he is the MVP. It's a different animal. We've not seen this before. We've talked about this all the time. Another guys you mentioned to me really moved the needle as much as he does on a daily basis for the Dodgers to win. These other guys don't with their teams. So yeah, I think he's a clear cut MVP.

I mean as from the top of the batting order, include a stolen bases, include the just the every the everything, the vibe creates among this group, his team, the eight guys hitting after him, and how they feel about it, how the Dodgers feel whenever they walk in a locker room on a daily basis. Oh, show hey, SI, he's gonna lead off. Okay, don't worry about it, man, we will. We'll take our gloves out in the field. Don't bring gears. We know you're going to pitch for us in the future, but for right now, we got you. We got you on defense. I don't know that if you measure these other guys' impact on the success of their team or or the game, and it's if you combine their offense and defense, if that exceeds just show Hey playing offense, stolen bases, and just what he does to generate energy among his group. I think it's unrivaled. It's it's unparalleled. I just think it's it's different. It's he's Michael Jackson. You know, he's just he's different that you could talk about. You know, Prince was outstanding, but you know, Michael Jackson's like, come on. So I just think that, yes, he is the MVP. It's a different animal. We've not seen this before. We've talked about this all the time. Another guys you mentioned to me really moved the needle as much as he does on a daily basis for the Dodgers to win. These other guys don't with their teams. So yeah, I think he's a clear cut MVP.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I like your answer because the one word was impact, And even without playing defense, I think show Hey impacts the game on a daily basis so.

I like your answer because the one word was impact, And even without playing defense, I think show Hey impacts the game on a daily basis so.

Greatly that I don't know. Listen.

Greatly that I don't know. Listen.

I like, first of all, I like to keep my mind open, Joe, I don't like you know, it's like picking a political candidate. You know, you jump on a bandwagon early, and nobody wants to get off. Nobody wants to change their mind, nobody wants to say, you know what, I probably was wrong about this guy for MVP because this other guy's coming on in September.

I like, first of all, I like to keep my mind open, Joe, I don't like you know, it's like picking a political candidate. You know, you jump on a bandwagon early, and nobody wants to get off. Nobody wants to change their mind, nobody wants to say, you know what, I probably was wrong about this guy for MVP because this other guy's coming on in September.

People just don't like changing their minds, you know that.

People just don't like changing their minds, you know that.

So I try to keep an open mind and not say, hey, that's my guy, and you know I'm going to ride them all the way to the finish, even if he hits one twenty in September. But I do think he's a leading candidate because of what you said in that word impact. He leads the league and home runs, slugging, total bases, ops runs, He's going to go forty forty, he might even go fifty to fifty. And I thought this might happen Joe without the pitching component. And he's working on rehabbing, so it's not like he's not doing any work when it comes to pitching, but he doesn't have that grind that even the mental grind of going out there and competing on the mound. I thought his offensive game would go to another level. And we're seeing that he's got a career low strikeout rate, he's got a career high exit velocity, he's got a career low ground ball rate. I think he's in a lot of ways better than he's ever been.

So I try to keep an open mind and not say, hey, that's my guy, and you know I'm going to ride them all the way to the finish, even if he hits one twenty in September. But I do think he's a leading candidate because of what you said in that word impact. He leads the league and home runs, slugging, total bases, ops runs, He's going to go forty forty, he might even go fifty to fifty. And I thought this might happen Joe without the pitching component. And he's working on rehabbing, so it's not like he's not doing any work when it comes to pitching, but he doesn't have that grind that even the mental grind of going out there and competing on the mound. I thought his offensive game would go to another level. And we're seeing that he's got a career low strikeout rate, he's got a career high exit velocity, he's got a career low ground ball rate. I think he's in a lot of ways better than he's ever been.

Yes, and think about this too, the Pennant race. He's in a Pennant race. He has a chance to go to the playoffs and win a World Series. We saw what he would he look like with how he felt after the WBC victory when he tosses live in the year, and we've never seen that kind of unbridled emotion out of him to that point. You know, you seem happy, but not like he reacted in that moment. I just think, in and of itself, his talent level is so oppressive that the fact that he's going to be engaged every day that the Dodgers winning a pennant, going to the playoffs, winning a World Series. He's tasted that on a different stag or level with the WBC win, and now he wants it here. That's why he went to the Dodgers.

Yes, and think about this too, the Pennant race. He's in a Pennant race. He has a chance to go to the playoffs and win a World Series. We saw what he would he look like with how he felt after the WBC victory when he tosses live in the year, and we've never seen that kind of unbridled emotion out of him to that point. You know, you seem happy, but not like he reacted in that moment. I just think, in and of itself, his talent level is so oppressive that the fact that he's going to be engaged every day that the Dodgers winning a pennant, going to the playoffs, winning a World Series. He's tasted that on a different stag or level with the WBC win, and now he wants it here. That's why he went to the Dodgers.

That's why he wanted to be with the team that had a chance to win. And he's got it.

That's why he wanted to be with the team that had a chance to win. And he's got it.

So I think he's gonna get you know, if there's anything, he's gonna play even better down the stretch, if that's even possible. He just got to just stay away from the injury bug, and this guy is going to show you.

So I think he's gonna get you know, if there's anything, he's gonna play even better down the stretch, if that's even possible. He just got to just stay away from the injury bug, and this guy is going to show you.

Wow when it really matters.

Wow when it really matters.

There's the guy's got a slow heartbeats, one of the slowest I've ever been around. He's able to find a joy in some very difficult moments. He loves playing the game. So for all those different reasons, I think he's actually going to play better for the rest of the year and into the playoffs.

There's the guy's got a slow heartbeats, one of the slowest I've ever been around. He's able to find a joy in some very difficult moments. He loves playing the game. So for all those different reasons, I think he's actually going to play better for the rest of the year and into the playoffs.

Yeah, I would say the door is opened slightly. He hasn't locked it away yet. You know one thing that keeps that door open a little bit. Runners in scoring position. He's hitting two twenty one, and he has not hit left handers this year. He's thinking two sixty eight with just a three point thirty on base percentage.

Yeah, I would say the door is opened slightly. He hasn't locked it away yet. You know one thing that keeps that door open a little bit. Runners in scoring position. He's hitting two twenty one, and he has not hit left handers this year. He's thinking two sixty eight with just a three point thirty on base percentage.

Nitpicking, I get it.

Nitpicking, I get it.

The point is just that if someone has a huge September, say Harper, Marte lindor especially one of those three, maybe Ozuna, we'll see what happens. But I think he is your leader in the clubhouse at this point, with a good five weeks to go left in the season. Speaking of stars, Joe, I kind of imagine you were probably a big fan of Hollywood Squares.

The point is just that if someone has a huge September, say Harper, Marte lindor especially one of those three, maybe Ozuna, we'll see what happens. But I think he is your leader in the clubhouse at this point, with a good five weeks to go left in the season. Speaking of stars, Joe, I kind of imagine you were probably a big fan of Hollywood Squares.

Of course, George Goebel, Come on.

Of course, George Goebel, Come on.

Well, of course there weren't people like George Goebel.

Well, of course there weren't people like George Goebel.

I had no idea who they were other than they were famous for being on Hollywood Squares.

I had no idea who they were other than they were famous for being on Hollywood Squares.

Paul In, paul In the Best Center Square.

Paul In, paul In the Best Center Square.

Yeah he was, you know, he was a good. He was a good comedian, right, you saw him on other shows. But some of these people Rose Marie, Charlie Weaver, Charles Nelson, Riley. What the heck did they do other than be on Hollywood Squares?

Yeah he was, you know, he was a good. He was a good comedian, right, you saw him on other shows. But some of these people Rose Marie, Charlie Weaver, Charles Nelson, Riley. What the heck did they do other than be on Hollywood Squares?

I didn't know.

I didn't know.

I think they were famous for being on the Hollywood Squares. It's like they were invented.

I think they were famous for being on the Hollywood Squares. It's like they were invented.

They did the variety shows. They were there. The Variety show was so big back then. All these guys would pop up in different venues with that paul In I think was in Bewitched, Wasn't he didn't he come out of like a box on a table or something. I can't remember quite, but Paulin always was called on for that particular moment, wasn't. Wasn't They called her Juice. The other one was the Gong Show. God, I love the Gong Show too, But Chuck Barrett, Chuck Barrett.

They did the variety shows. They were there. The Variety show was so big back then. All these guys would pop up in different venues with that paul In I think was in Bewitched, Wasn't he didn't he come out of like a box on a table or something. I can't remember quite, but Paulin always was called on for that particular moment, wasn't. Wasn't They called her Juice. The other one was the Gong Show. God, I love the Gong Show too, But Chuck Barrett, Chuck Barrett.

And all those people.

And all those people.

But I could absolutely see Peter Mark right, he did the squares up and down. I could just see them. I'm re rehashing them in my brain right now.

But I could absolutely see Peter Mark right, he did the squares up and down. I could just see them. I'm re rehashing them in my brain right now.

But all those.

But all those.

Guys outstanding, And of course they had to be prepped before all this because their answers were so good. But yes, that's one of the shows I did watch.

Guys outstanding, And of course they had to be prepped before all this because their answers were so good. But yes, that's one of the shows I did watch.

Yeah, they were prepped, so they had jokes at the ready, but they also taped a week's worth of shows in one night, and they took booze breaks in between taping the shows.

Yeah, they were prepped, so they had jokes at the ready, but they also taped a week's worth of shows in one night, and they took booze breaks in between taping the shows.

So there you go.

So there you go.

I bring it up because Peter Marshall, you mentioned, the host of the show, just passed away at the age of ninety eight, and there's a baseball connection here. Peter Marshall his son. Actually Peter Marshall's real name was Ralph Pierre Lecock, and his son was a Major League baseball player. Drafted at a high school, Tafft High School in LA by the Chicago Cubs in nineteen seventy. Peter Lecock first baseman, left handed hitter. He signed straight.

I bring it up because Peter Marshall, you mentioned, the host of the show, just passed away at the age of ninety eight, and there's a baseball connection here. Peter Marshall his son. Actually Peter Marshall's real name was Ralph Pierre Lecock, and his son was a Major League baseball player. Drafted at a high school, Tafft High School in LA by the Chicago Cubs in nineteen seventy. Peter Lecock first baseman, left handed hitter. He signed straight.

Out of high school.

Out of high school.

Goes to the Pioneer League in nineteen seventy, and he made his debut in the big leagues at the age of twenty. That gives you an idea that kind of talent this guy had that he gets to the big leagues at the age of twenty. He wounded up playing nine years in the big League's two fifty seven career hitter. But while he's in the minor League show. He went back to the minor leagues. In nineteen seventy four. He's playing for Wichita and they've got a game at Denver and he's playing first base and there's a tough play at first base and the official scorer charges him with an error. He sees the error light up on the scoreboard. He picks up the baseball and he heaves it at the official score in the press box. And on that night, the Governor of Colorado happened to be in the press box and the ball almost hit him. John Vanderhoof was the Governor of Colorado. He throws the ball in the press box and almost beans the Governor of Colorado.

Goes to the Pioneer League in nineteen seventy, and he made his debut in the big leagues at the age of twenty. That gives you an idea that kind of talent this guy had that he gets to the big leagues at the age of twenty. He wounded up playing nine years in the big League's two fifty seven career hitter. But while he's in the minor League show. He went back to the minor leagues. In nineteen seventy four. He's playing for Wichita and they've got a game at Denver and he's playing first base and there's a tough play at first base and the official scorer charges him with an error. He sees the error light up on the scoreboard. He picks up the baseball and he heaves it at the official score in the press box. And on that night, the Governor of Colorado happened to be in the press box and the ball almost hit him. John Vanderhoof was the Governor of Colorado. He throws the ball in the press box and almost beans the Governor of Colorado.

He got a one day suspension.

He got a one day suspension.

I knew Pete. I know Pete, I mean from the Cubs.

I knew Pete. I know Pete, I mean from the Cubs.

He'd always come around, really an upbeat kind of guy, always positive, very supportive.

He'd always come around, really an upbeat kind of guy, always positive, very supportive.

Tap Tigh school is that? Isn't that in Fullerton area? I'm not sure?

Tap Tigh school is that? Isn't that in Fullerton area? I'm not sure?

But Woodland Hills, Okay, woodn Hills all right, But anyway, good fella, a lot of fun.

But Woodland Hills, Okay, woodn Hills all right, But anyway, good fella, a lot of fun.

And he didn't really really realize that his arm was that good, or maybe it was that good.

And he didn't really really realize that his arm was that good, or maybe it was that good.

I mean to throw the ball that high, that far, but one of the very kind of a loose cannon, very free spirited. I guess maybe being around show business as much as he was, he wasn't totally impacted by the daily grind of the baseball game. But like Pete still run into when they go to Chicago, he's a cub. He loves he loved being a cub and too bad about his pop. But that was a really a well lived life on his part.

I mean to throw the ball that high, that far, but one of the very kind of a loose cannon, very free spirited. I guess maybe being around show business as much as he was, he wasn't totally impacted by the daily grind of the baseball game. But like Pete still run into when they go to Chicago, he's a cub. He loves he loved being a cub and too bad about his pop. But that was a really a well lived life on his part.

Yeah, I mean, Pete would hang out for the tapings of the show and they actually tap Hollywood Squares in the studio right next to the Tonight Show, and Johnny Carson would stop by and he'd hang out with Johnny Carson and as you mentioned, Paul Lynn and some of those guys. So that was his childhood growing up. He was a free spirit and kind of loose cannon. But one of his greatest moments was September third of nineteen seventy five. He's facing Bob Gibson, and Bob Gibson's having a tough year.

Yeah, I mean, Pete would hang out for the tapings of the show and they actually tap Hollywood Squares in the studio right next to the Tonight Show, and Johnny Carson would stop by and he'd hang out with Johnny Carson and as you mentioned, Paul Lynn and some of those guys. So that was his childhood growing up. He was a free spirit and kind of loose cannon. But one of his greatest moments was September third of nineteen seventy five. He's facing Bob Gibson, and Bob Gibson's having a tough year.

It's the last year of his career.

It's the last year of his career.

He doesn't quite know it yet, but it's not the nineteen sixty eight Bob Gibson's that's out there. Anyway, it's late in the game. I think it's the eighth inning, basses are loaded. Close game, Pete Lacock hits a grand slam of Bob Gibson. So that was the last hit that Bob Gibson gave up. He got Don Kessinger the next batter on a ground ball to end the inning, and that was it. He retired immediately after that. Bob Gibson didn't bother going on the last road trip of the Cardinals. He's like, I'm done.

He doesn't quite know it yet, but it's not the nineteen sixty eight Bob Gibson's that's out there. Anyway, it's late in the game. I think it's the eighth inning, basses are loaded. Close game, Pete Lacock hits a grand slam of Bob Gibson. So that was the last hit that Bob Gibson gave up. He got Don Kessinger the next batter on a ground ball to end the inning, and that was it. He retired immediately after that. Bob Gibson didn't bother going on the last road trip of the Cardinals. He's like, I'm done.

I just gave up a grand slam to Pete Lacock.

I just gave up a grand slam to Pete Lacock.

So fifteen years later, you know where this is going. Bob Gibson faces Pete Lecock in an old Timers game.

So fifteen years later, you know where this is going. Bob Gibson faces Pete Lecock in an old Timers game.

It drills him in the ribs.

It drills him in the ribs.

And then later on they wind up coaching Gibson and Leacock in the Cardinals system, and they go to spring training and the Cardinals staff lockers them next to one another. Bob Gibson never said a word to Pete Leacock with the lockart next to him in spring training.

And then later on they wind up coaching Gibson and Leacock in the Cardinals system, and they go to spring training and the Cardinals staff lockers them next to one another. Bob Gibson never said a word to Pete Leacock with the lockart next to him in spring training.

I got to meet Bob at the end there when I'm still with the Cubs. Obviously, Tim McCarver and I became friends over the course of time, we just had a connection and he knew that how much I was a Cardinal fan growing up. So Timy and I would always speak. Actually, I went to Dominus Winery and knap and he, with some connections, got me some really good great afternoon there. Wow, left there feeling pretty good. But one day Tim set it up. So we're in Saint Louis at bush and he says, I got Bob to come down and the dug out and talk to you for a bit. I was like, wow, that's a big wile for me because Gibson growing up, Alison, I was ten when I became a cardinal fan here and there was even as a ten year old, the one thing I noticed about mister Gibson was this competitive nature. It's like it was like nobody when when he pitched, this guy was totally in charge of everything, intimidating great stuff, the energetic delivery, the way he fell off the mound, his arms were spread like almost like he's ready to take off.

I got to meet Bob at the end there when I'm still with the Cubs. Obviously, Tim McCarver and I became friends over the course of time, we just had a connection and he knew that how much I was a Cardinal fan growing up. So Timy and I would always speak. Actually, I went to Dominus Winery and knap and he, with some connections, got me some really good great afternoon there. Wow, left there feeling pretty good. But one day Tim set it up. So we're in Saint Louis at bush and he says, I got Bob to come down and the dug out and talk to you for a bit. I was like, wow, that's a big wile for me because Gibson growing up, Alison, I was ten when I became a cardinal fan here and there was even as a ten year old, the one thing I noticed about mister Gibson was this competitive nature. It's like it was like nobody when when he pitched, this guy was totally in charge of everything, intimidating great stuff, the energetic delivery, the way he fell off the mound, his arms were spread like almost like he's ready to take off.

Huge fan of mister Gibson.

Huge fan of mister Gibson.

So I had that one moment where Tim Brod has brought me down and we sat in the dug and I probably talked him for about a.

So I had that one moment where Tim Brod has brought me down and we sat in the dug and I probably talked him for about a.

Half an hour about a variety of different subjects.

Half an hour about a variety of different subjects.

And if I ever had a questionnaire for many years and it said who is your idol growing up besides my dad, I would say Bob Gibson. And then if I read his life story in Omaha, Nebraska, he had Ricketts as a kid. Eventually was a really good basketball player, played for the Globe Trotters for a bit, just.

And if I ever had a questionnaire for many years and it said who is your idol growing up besides my dad, I would say Bob Gibson. And then if I read his life story in Omaha, Nebraska, he had Ricketts as a kid. Eventually was a really good basketball player, played for the Globe Trotters for a bit, just.

An outstanding athlete.

An outstanding athlete.

You know, got there in a very difficult way when he got up. There wasn't a smash in the beginning. But eventually, obviously he was one of the most intimidating athletic, interesting men that has ever played the game. And like I said, since the time I was ten, if you asked me who my idol was in baseball, I would say Bob Gibson.

You know, got there in a very difficult way when he got up. There wasn't a smash in the beginning. But eventually, obviously he was one of the most intimidating athletic, interesting men that has ever played the game. And like I said, since the time I was ten, if you asked me who my idol was in baseball, I would say Bob Gibson.

And you know this, Joe if if you got to know him, if you crack that veneer, he's a sweetheart.

And you know this, Joe if if you got to know him, if you crack that veneer, he's a sweetheart.

Yeah, great man, very nice, yet wonderful.

Yeah, great man, very nice, yet wonderful.

Pete Lecock, by the way, his last game in the major leagues was a World Series game, Game two of the nineteen eighty World Series, playing for Kansas City. He came in as a defensive replacement for Willie Aikins. Now he did go on the next year, he signed a contract to play in Japan. I think it was a two year, eight hundred thousand dollars deal, and he immediately said it's too much money. I'm not worth it. But he went to Japan to play. This is your typical Pete Lacock story. He gets called out on strikes. He thought, obviously the pitch was out of the zone. He turns around, he hands his back to the umpire and he says, you're taking the bat on my hand, so you might as well have it.

Pete Lecock, by the way, his last game in the major leagues was a World Series game, Game two of the nineteen eighty World Series, playing for Kansas City. He came in as a defensive replacement for Willie Aikins. Now he did go on the next year, he signed a contract to play in Japan. I think it was a two year, eight hundred thousand dollars deal, and he immediately said it's too much money. I'm not worth it. But he went to Japan to play. This is your typical Pete Lacock story. He gets called out on strikes. He thought, obviously the pitch was out of the zone. He turns around, he hands his back to the umpire and he says, you're taking the bat on my hand, so you might as well have it.

That's Pete Lacock, that's perfect. And the guy you mentioned there, Willie Mays Aikins. I was in spring training with him, Willie in nineteen seventy six in Holteville with El Central with the Angels.

That's Pete Lacock, that's perfect. And the guy you mentioned there, Willie Mays Aikins. I was in spring training with him, Willie in nineteen seventy six in Holteville with El Central with the Angels.

What a nice man.

What a nice man.

I mean, he ran into some issues whatever, but the guy has such glorious talent. God, he could whip a baseball bat as quickly as anybody could. I remember hanging out with him, just a little bit conversation. One day we had that was a strike here and they had him. Bill Milton and John Darty was a catcher in the minor leagues. And Bobby Bonds was there at that time, and they gave like a little hitting clinic in the food room, and I remember that. I remember there was one thing that Bill Melton said in that clinic that I incorporated, and I actually ran in the Bill obviously with the White Sox, and told him all about it. But William May's aikins akac and a little bit of a stutter when he spoke, but God, he was entertaining, and God, he could whip a bat. And it's too bad he ran into the issues that he did, because it really was incredibly strong, with incredible will bat speed.

I mean, he ran into some issues whatever, but the guy has such glorious talent. God, he could whip a baseball bat as quickly as anybody could. I remember hanging out with him, just a little bit conversation. One day we had that was a strike here and they had him. Bill Milton and John Darty was a catcher in the minor leagues. And Bobby Bonds was there at that time, and they gave like a little hitting clinic in the food room, and I remember that. I remember there was one thing that Bill Melton said in that clinic that I incorporated, and I actually ran in the Bill obviously with the White Sox, and told him all about it. But William May's aikins akac and a little bit of a stutter when he spoke, but God, he was entertaining, and God, he could whip a bat. And it's too bad he ran into the issues that he did, because it really was incredibly strong, with incredible will bat speed.

Yeah, and will he did. I'm not sure if you ever saw it, Joe. He did write a book, a biography of his life, and it's fascinating. You mentioned his issues, substance abuse issues. He's very forthcoming about it, and it's an incredible window into what that Kansas City team was going through at that time, and really what a lot of Major League Baseball teams were going through at that time in the in the early nineteen eighties.

Yeah, and will he did. I'm not sure if you ever saw it, Joe. He did write a book, a biography of his life, and it's fascinating. You mentioned his issues, substance abuse issues. He's very forthcoming about it, and it's an incredible window into what that Kansas City team was going through at that time, and really what a lot of Major League Baseball teams were going through at that time in the in the early nineteen eighties.

A fascinating read. If you ever get your hands on it.

A fascinating read. If you ever get your hands on it.

I'll check it out.

I'll check it out.

The other guy was Darryl Scanners, Darryl was with us in the Angel organization. I was coaching when he first came up, and eventually went to Mexico with Billy Latchman, who was managing in ober Agon, cee of the Obigon, and I went down there to help straighten Daryl out as a hitting coach at that time, and he did. But that, like you said, that that generation that it was like a ten year window or so, a lot of stuff going on, a lot of issues. Darryl went with Daryl and he was playing in Double A and actually was playing for me in Double A.

The other guy was Darryl Scanners, Darryl was with us in the Angel organization. I was coaching when he first came up, and eventually went to Mexico with Billy Latchman, who was managing in ober Agon, cee of the Obigon, and I went down there to help straighten Daryl out as a hitting coach at that time, and he did. But that, like you said, that that generation that it was like a ten year window or so, a lot of stuff going on, a lot of issues. Darryl went with Daryl and he was playing in Double A and actually was playing for me in Double A.

I think it was me, right, was that robing, but I think it was me.

I think it was me, right, was that robing, but I think it was me.

And we were playing in the streetport one night, and I'll tell you somebody was just wearing him out from the stance, wearing him out, and Daryl took it and move forward from there. I don't even know what he's doing right now, But that's another guy. The Angels has some dudes with some incredible talent. The scouting system was unbelievable. We were Minor League tops, Minor League organization of the Year for several years and the seventies into the eighties.

And we were playing in the streetport one night, and I'll tell you somebody was just wearing him out from the stance, wearing him out, and Daryl took it and move forward from there. I don't even know what he's doing right now, But that's another guy. The Angels has some dudes with some incredible talent. The scouting system was unbelievable. We were Minor League tops, Minor League organization of the Year for several years and the seventies into the eighties.

It was that good. But anyway, there's a parallel.

It was that good. But anyway, there's a parallel.

Between Willie mayz Akins and Sconce, But there was a lot of really great baseball players that had some issues at that time and was a societal issue at that time also that just split into Major League baseball.

Between Willie mayz Akins and Sconce, But there was a lot of really great baseball players that had some issues at that time and was a societal issue at that time also that just split into Major League baseball.

Joe, as you know, on this show, we love to talk about music and baseball, and in our next segment, we're going to literally combine the two. We're going to talk about the combination of when music is a big part of an actual baseball game. Starting with a song you probably heard every game you managed and coached at Angels Stadium, and do that right after this, Joe Madden, the song calling All Angels.

Joe, as you know, on this show, we love to talk about music and baseball, and in our next segment, we're going to literally combine the two. We're going to talk about the combination of when music is a big part of an actual baseball game. Starting with a song you probably heard every game you managed and coached at Angels Stadium, and do that right after this, Joe Madden, the song calling All Angels.

Yeah, what does it mean to you?

Yeah, what does it mean to you?

Oh?

Oh?

My god, it's every day, Eddie.

My god, it's every day, Eddie.

You know that.

You know that.

It's when they first did that gig out there with the Anaheim. They did a wonderful job of morphing together the two scoreboards and then calling All Angels, and they would go through this historical video of the Angels from the from the inception to present time. And when it first began, like I said, it was, it was fabulous and we really look forward to But then it got to the point where guys were asking me, please go talk to somebody and see if they would stop doing that. I thought they should start playing it once a week as opposed to every day. But the original concept was spectacular. It just kind of wore down a little bit. But Calling All Angels is this great recap historical cap and I don't know, two minutes maybe it is a video with the song about the Angels from the time they were the Los Angeles Angels, to the California Angels, to the Anaheim Angels to Los Angeles Angels.

It's when they first did that gig out there with the Anaheim. They did a wonderful job of morphing together the two scoreboards and then calling All Angels, and they would go through this historical video of the Angels from the from the inception to present time. And when it first began, like I said, it was, it was fabulous and we really look forward to But then it got to the point where guys were asking me, please go talk to somebody and see if they would stop doing that. I thought they should start playing it once a week as opposed to every day. But the original concept was spectacular. It just kind of wore down a little bit. But Calling All Angels is this great recap historical cap and I don't know, two minutes maybe it is a video with the song about the Angels from the time they were the Los Angeles Angels, to the California Angels, to the Anaheim Angels to Los Angeles Angels.

Of Anaheim twitter we are right now there. But it's a really a great video.

Of Anaheim twitter we are right now there. But it's a really a great video.

It's the song obviously, is by the band Train. It was released in two thousand and three. By the way, it is a great video. First of all, I like the song, but the video is awesome, and I think it's important you have a team like the Angels to remind people what your history is. You know, we all come from somewhere, and I think you know as much movement there as there is in baseball. I think it's good to let your fans and especially even the players know what's been behind you and the tracks that you follow. First of all, I bring it up because this is a while ago, but one of the founding members of that band Train, Charlie Collin died.

It's the song obviously, is by the band Train. It was released in two thousand and three. By the way, it is a great video. First of all, I like the song, but the video is awesome, and I think it's important you have a team like the Angels to remind people what your history is. You know, we all come from somewhere, and I think you know as much movement there as there is in baseball. I think it's good to let your fans and especially even the players know what's been behind you and the tracks that you follow. First of all, I bring it up because this is a while ago, but one of the founding members of that band Train, Charlie Collin died.

He was only fifty eight years old.

He was only fifty eight years old.