The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio.

Hey there, welcome back.

Hey there, welcome back.

To the latest episode of the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and of course Joe Madden and Joe. Super excited about our guest today. He needs no introduction, but I'll give him one anyway. The most wins in Division I college basketball, five national titles, a member of the Naysmith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame, and you'll love this, Joe. He's also a member of the National Polish American Sports Hall of Fame, so that counts for a lot too. Please welcome coach Kate, Mike Ryzchewski, Coach, how are you.

To the latest episode of the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and of course Joe Madden and Joe. Super excited about our guest today. He needs no introduction, but I'll give him one anyway. The most wins in Division I college basketball, five national titles, a member of the Naysmith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame, and you'll love this, Joe. He's also a member of the National Polish American Sports Hall of Fame, so that counts for a lot too. Please welcome coach Kate, Mike Ryzchewski, Coach, how are you.

Yeah, it's great being on with you guys, And congratulations on the book, The Book of Joe that I've started reading it. Joe actually sent me a copy autograph. Spell my name right and everything. But it's really good, you know. I call it it like a common sense book, and boy do we need a lot of common sense going around right now.

Yeah, it's great being on with you guys, And congratulations on the book, The Book of Joe that I've started reading it. Joe actually sent me a copy autograph. Spell my name right and everything. But it's really good, you know. I call it it like a common sense book, and boy do we need a lot of common sense going around right now.

Well, thanks for joining us.

Well, thanks for joining us.

You know, I'm glad you brought up the book because obviously our podcast here is based off the book, and we wanted to produce something that was even more than just a quote unquote baseball book with life lessons and especially the kind of intersection of leadership, teamwork and what makes a team a team. And I can't think of any better guest coach to have on than you. One of your quotes that I really I love and when I first heard it, I don't look at myself as a basketball coach. I look at myself as a leader who happens to coach basketball. I love that because we tend to identify people by the jobs that they do in their titles. But you know better than anyone that the job of being a coach is really being a leader and of course a teacher. So I got to ask you, is that something that you knew early on that being a coach was more than just the ex'es and the o's.

You know, I'm glad you brought up the book because obviously our podcast here is based off the book, and we wanted to produce something that was even more than just a quote unquote baseball book with life lessons and especially the kind of intersection of leadership, teamwork and what makes a team a team. And I can't think of any better guest coach to have on than you. One of your quotes that I really I love and when I first heard it, I don't look at myself as a basketball coach. I look at myself as a leader who happens to coach basketball. I love that because we tend to identify people by the jobs that they do in their titles. But you know better than anyone that the job of being a coach is really being a leader and of course a teacher. So I got to ask you, is that something that you knew early on that being a coach was more than just the ex'es and the o's.

Yeah, no, obviously, it's got to be that combination. And I when I was sixteen, I knew I wanted to be a teacher. I thought I want to be a high school teacher, and I wanted to be a coach. And although I've retired from coaching, I haven't retired from teaching and learning.

Yeah, no, obviously, it's got to be that combination. And I when I was sixteen, I knew I wanted to be a teacher. I thought I want to be a high school teacher, and I wanted to be a coach. And although I've retired from coaching, I haven't retired from teaching and learning.

You know, if.

You know, if.

You leadership, if you only learn about leadership from the people in your profession.

You leadership, if you only learn about leadership from the people in your profession.

You are really running on a very narrow road.

You are really running on a very narrow road.

You can learn about leadership from everybody and in all walks of life. And I've learned it from speaking to businesses, watching football coaches, baseball coaches, you know, actually watching Joe because he was coaching my Coubbies for a long time, long time and brought us our first World Series in a century. And I went to the best leadership school in the world, the United States Military Academy, and we learned that leadership is something that you have to study all the time. All the time. I'm still studying it. And I actually now a professor at our Fuquis School of Business in the study of leadership, and I love it. It's the best profession in the world.

You can learn about leadership from everybody and in all walks of life. And I've learned it from speaking to businesses, watching football coaches, baseball coaches, you know, actually watching Joe because he was coaching my Coubbies for a long time, long time and brought us our first World Series in a century. And I went to the best leadership school in the world, the United States Military Academy, and we learned that leadership is something that you have to study all the time. All the time. I'm still studying it. And I actually now a professor at our Fuquis School of Business in the study of leadership, and I love it. It's the best profession in the world.

Coach just a dovetail and did that a bit, the creation of culture at Duke University, And you know, that's something that as a young manager when I was with the Devil Rays and then eventually got to the Cubs and tried to do the same thing with the Angels and the creation of a culture. And just the question is was there certain elements that you would try to intentionally bring to it or was it more an organic approach or was it a combination both.

Coach just a dovetail and did that a bit, the creation of culture at Duke University, And you know, that's something that as a young manager when I was with the Devil Rays and then eventually got to the Cubs and tried to do the same thing with the Angels and the creation of a culture. And just the question is was there certain elements that you would try to intentionally bring to it or was it more an organic approach or was it a combination both.

I think it's a combination of both. And you know, once I learned how to be a good coach, it takes a while. I I really was driven by values common ground. How can you get ownership from everybody where? I used to tell I told my US teams. I coached the US team for eleven years. I said, you're not playing for the United States, we won't win. If you're playing for the United States, will win if you are United States basketball? How do you own something? Can you own it by sharing? Having the same standards, having standards that the players and the coaches developed, and values. And we were a value based culture at Duke and with the US and we celebrated the values of integrity, respect, courage, selfless service, loyalty, duty, and trust. And we talked about those things and those were our constants, and our offense and defense ran better if we always were on the same page with our values.

I think it's a combination of both. And you know, once I learned how to be a good coach, it takes a while. I I really was driven by values common ground. How can you get ownership from everybody where? I used to tell I told my US teams. I coached the US team for eleven years. I said, you're not playing for the United States, we won't win. If you're playing for the United States, will win if you are United States basketball? How do you own something? Can you own it by sharing? Having the same standards, having standards that the players and the coaches developed, and values. And we were a value based culture at Duke and with the US and we celebrated the values of integrity, respect, courage, selfless service, loyalty, duty, and trust. And we talked about those things and those were our constants, and our offense and defense ran better if we always were on the same page with our values.

I love that good.

I love that good.

Tommy, he coach k I mean Joe tells a great story in the book about when he inherited the devil rays and having to change the culture. And he had a lot of guys on unofficial scholarships entitlement. The team had never literally never won before, so they didn't know how to win. It took a while to change that culture. And one quote from you I found really interesting. We all think that the culture you established that Duke and we all think, well, maybe it just kind of ran on autopilot after a while. But I love what you said where you said, don't take your culture for granted. There needs to be a constant renewal of values that need to camaraderie. Can you explain that, even after all those years at Duke that you never could take that culture for branded.

Tommy, he coach k I mean Joe tells a great story in the book about when he inherited the devil rays and having to change the culture. And he had a lot of guys on unofficial scholarships entitlement. The team had never literally never won before, so they didn't know how to win. It took a while to change that culture. And one quote from you I found really interesting. We all think that the culture you established that Duke and we all think, well, maybe it just kind of ran on autopilot after a while. But I love what you said where you said, don't take your culture for granted. There needs to be a constant renewal of values that need to camaraderie. Can you explain that, even after all those years at Duke that you never could take that culture for branded.

Well, you know, I was fortunate when it used to be you had guys for four years. So a lot of our culture was taught by our juniors and seniors, and they were our best players. They were better than the freshmen. Then the one and done started around twenty ten, and our best players were freshmen and they were going to go in one year, and we had a turnover. There was a lot of turnover, and so we taught. We had to come up with different ways of teaching our culture. And a big thing that we did was everyone that surrounded them, the managers, the secretarial staff, the trainers and whatever I got them. More intimately evolved in making sure our culture was adhere to and that people saw it. And I made sure that the new guys knew everybody's name and said please and thank you.

Well, you know, I was fortunate when it used to be you had guys for four years. So a lot of our culture was taught by our juniors and seniors, and they were our best players. They were better than the freshmen. Then the one and done started around twenty ten, and our best players were freshmen and they were going to go in one year, and we had a turnover. There was a lot of turnover, and so we taught. We had to come up with different ways of teaching our culture. And a big thing that we did was everyone that surrounded them, the managers, the secretarial staff, the trainers and whatever I got them. More intimately evolved in making sure our culture was adhere to and that people saw it. And I made sure that the new guys knew everybody's name and said please and thank you.

And also I didn't make any promise.

And also I didn't make any promise.

I've never made a promise to a player in recruiting him that he was going to get a certain amount of playing time. Shots you're going to start, And I said, I'll promise that I'll never take away the thing that's made you good right now, I'll just develop it. And I said, you know what that is, And I said most of them did not know. I said, you've been hungry. Yeah, you've had you've been driven to be good. As soon as I start giving you something for nothing, I take that away from you. I want to build on that, and that's how you're going to become the best player that you can become. And so when I went into a locker room, I didn't have to figure out who I promised stuff to. They were all promised the same thing, and that was common ground. And I've done that even with the US team, and I think it works. You know, Yeah, you need to be straightforward with somebody. Two of my standards were always I'm going to look you in the eye. I want you to look me in the eye, and I want to tell you the truth all the time. And I'll be one of the few people on earth that'll be in your life that will always tell you the truth and screw around with a recruit. I say, yeah, man, you're wearing a nice shirt. Because pants you're wearing. I said, your shoes suck. But and I said, the thing you remember now is that your shoes suck, by the way they know. But there's going to be a time out where you know you're not playing well. You come to the bench, I'm gonna say, look, get your head out of your butt. You're a good player. Get the hell out there and start being that good player. And I don't want you to look at me and you know, coach, you know, and start making excuses. Yeah, we need instant, instant trust. And I've loved that. I really, I've done that my whole life. And I try to rec some Now obvious, on a major weak team, you don't have control over everybody that comes into your organization. But I did with my team, and we recruited talent and we recruited character. We recruited talent with character, not talented characters, and they were a lot better to we want to help.

I've never made a promise to a player in recruiting him that he was going to get a certain amount of playing time. Shots you're going to start, And I said, I'll promise that I'll never take away the thing that's made you good right now, I'll just develop it. And I said, you know what that is, And I said most of them did not know. I said, you've been hungry. Yeah, you've had you've been driven to be good. As soon as I start giving you something for nothing, I take that away from you. I want to build on that, and that's how you're going to become the best player that you can become. And so when I went into a locker room, I didn't have to figure out who I promised stuff to. They were all promised the same thing, and that was common ground. And I've done that even with the US team, and I think it works. You know, Yeah, you need to be straightforward with somebody. Two of my standards were always I'm going to look you in the eye. I want you to look me in the eye, and I want to tell you the truth all the time. And I'll be one of the few people on earth that'll be in your life that will always tell you the truth and screw around with a recruit. I say, yeah, man, you're wearing a nice shirt. Because pants you're wearing. I said, your shoes suck. But and I said, the thing you remember now is that your shoes suck, by the way they know. But there's going to be a time out where you know you're not playing well. You come to the bench, I'm gonna say, look, get your head out of your butt. You're a good player. Get the hell out there and start being that good player. And I don't want you to look at me and you know, coach, you know, and start making excuses. Yeah, we need instant, instant trust. And I've loved that. I really, I've done that my whole life. And I try to rec some Now obvious, on a major weak team, you don't have control over everybody that comes into your organization. But I did with my team, and we recruited talent and we recruited character. We recruited talent with character, not talented characters, and they were a lot better to we want to help.

A lot more. It was a lot more fun being with them.

A lot more. It was a lot more fun being with them.

Because you're just drawing so many parallels. It's it's really a lot of fun to listen to all this right down to the truth. My line has always been, if I tell you the truth, you might not like me for a week or ten days, but if I lie to you, you can hate me forever. And you just kind of, you know, you kind of relate that right there, and it's great here that validated. The other thing is the first time eyes. You got to approach everything as though it's the first time, which is the hunger component of this whole thing. And but I really love like you. You have to be us basketball. You just can't play for it. You're not trying to win for them. And the ownership component really resonates strongly. I think with the Cubs. That was one thing I really tried to drive home was the fact that the ownership part of it. When when groups are people within groups feels that they have they have ownership. In this situation, you're definitely going to get the best version of them, and you're going to get that level of accountability we were talking about prior to us recording this whole thing. So it's wonderful to hear all of this, Coach, because honestly, it's it's a lot of what I believe in, and you're putting it in other words, which really resonates with me deeply.

Because you're just drawing so many parallels. It's it's really a lot of fun to listen to all this right down to the truth. My line has always been, if I tell you the truth, you might not like me for a week or ten days, but if I lie to you, you can hate me forever. And you just kind of, you know, you kind of relate that right there, and it's great here that validated. The other thing is the first time eyes. You got to approach everything as though it's the first time, which is the hunger component of this whole thing. And but I really love like you. You have to be us basketball. You just can't play for it. You're not trying to win for them. And the ownership component really resonates strongly. I think with the Cubs. That was one thing I really tried to drive home was the fact that the ownership part of it. When when groups are people within groups feels that they have they have ownership. In this situation, you're definitely going to get the best version of them, and you're going to get that level of accountability we were talking about prior to us recording this whole thing. So it's wonderful to hear all of this, Coach, because honestly, it's it's a lot of what I believe in, and you're putting it in other words, which really resonates with me deeply.

I really appreciate that.

I really appreciate that.

Yeah, you know, Joe, we Uh that's why I said about the book. I haven't read the whole thing, but to me, a lot of it is common sense. And you know, what I've learned is right there, there are different ways of saying this same thing. So if you just stay in your profession, you end up trying to say the same the same way. And by getting outside and actually, you know, you've been on my show uh before and I've learned from having my show, uh and uh just listening and different different ways of phrasing phrasing things. Yeah, and look, if you own it, you're going to fight for it, you know. Uh. And I want a team that's going to fight for it. And we got a better chance of winning if we're fighting together, and uh we have a common common cause.

Yeah, you know, Joe, we Uh that's why I said about the book. I haven't read the whole thing, but to me, a lot of it is common sense. And you know, what I've learned is right there, there are different ways of saying this same thing. So if you just stay in your profession, you end up trying to say the same the same way. And by getting outside and actually, you know, you've been on my show uh before and I've learned from having my show, uh and uh just listening and different different ways of phrasing phrasing things. Yeah, and look, if you own it, you're going to fight for it, you know. Uh. And I want a team that's going to fight for it. And we got a better chance of winning if we're fighting together, and uh we have a common common cause.

Uh. Yeah, Ie.

Uh. Yeah, Ie.

One of the cool things we did with the Olympic team the first time we met. You know, I told them, you hear that expression, leave your egos at the door. Somebody said that to the team, and I said, you know, listen, bring your ego was in.

One of the cool things we did with the Olympic team the first time we met. You know, I told them, you hear that expression, leave your egos at the door. Somebody said that to the team, and I said, you know, listen, bring your ego was in.

Man.

Man.

You know we're going to need them to beat the Gasols and the channel by the way, Kobe, Bryant and Lebron We're going to bring them in no matter what, which is good. But let's put them all under one ego umbrella, you know, the USA, and then we'll be really damn good. And uh, you know, I don't want you to hear and see only I want you to feel. And I swear to God this is exactly what happened. And it was one of the beautiful moments for me as a coach. I told them after our meeting, it was our first meeting. We were practicing in Vegas at the wind and I said, go look to your rooms and be sixteen for one minute. I know you guys are studs and zillionaires and whatever. And what we did was we had their Olympic uniforms on their beds and I said, just look on your bed and be sixteen for a minute.

You know we're going to need them to beat the Gasols and the channel by the way, Kobe, Bryant and Lebron We're going to bring them in no matter what, which is good. But let's put them all under one ego umbrella, you know, the USA, and then we'll be really damn good. And uh, you know, I don't want you to hear and see only I want you to feel. And I swear to God this is exactly what happened. And it was one of the beautiful moments for me as a coach. I told them after our meeting, it was our first meeting. We were practicing in Vegas at the wind and I said, go look to your rooms and be sixteen for one minute. I know you guys are studs and zillionaires and whatever. And what we did was we had their Olympic uniforms on their beds and I said, just look on your bed and be sixteen for a minute.

That's all I'm asking you to do.

That's all I'm asking you to do.

Later that night, I was playing some video poker and I get a tap on my shoulder and it's Kobe Bryant and Kobe said, I said, what's up? He said, Coach, I did what you asked me to do. And uh, And I said, what happened? He said, I cried? And I knew then that that was the start of us feeling. And then we got the military involved a lot. We brought wounded warriors in and just to teach these guys what commitment selfless service was all about. And that's going outside of your you know, your your wane that.

Later that night, I was playing some video poker and I get a tap on my shoulder and it's Kobe Bryant and Kobe said, I said, what's up? He said, Coach, I did what you asked me to do. And uh, And I said, what happened? He said, I cried? And I knew then that that was the start of us feeling. And then we got the military involved a lot. We brought wounded warriors in and just to teach these guys what commitment selfless service was all about. And that's going outside of your you know, your your wane that.

You normally do. Uh.

You normally do. Uh.

You different ways of motivating. There's motivation and there's inspiration, and I think you need you need both and uh, the wounded warriors to the jersey, I don't call them motivation. I call them inspiration.

You different ways of motivating. There's motivation and there's inspiration, and I think you need you need both and uh, the wounded warriors to the jersey, I don't call them motivation. I call them inspiration.

I love that.

I love that.

And by the way, one other common denominator I've noticed between the two of you is leadership without having so many rules. Yeah, and I know, Joe, you were famous for allowing players to be themselves and not constrain, as you would say, don't get in the way of greatness. And for you, Coach k I know you also believe that if you have too many rules, that gets in the way of leadership. Once you explain the way you ran your teams as it regarded rules and rule making.

And by the way, one other common denominator I've noticed between the two of you is leadership without having so many rules. Yeah, and I know, Joe, you were famous for allowing players to be themselves and not constrain, as you would say, don't get in the way of greatness. And for you, Coach k I know you also believe that if you have too many rules, that gets in the way of leadership. Once you explain the way you ran your teams as it regarded rules and rule making.

Well, I went to a school that had a regular west point, a book of rules. And you know, when you think of ownership, you never own a rule.

Well, I went to a school that had a regular west point, a book of rules. And you know, when you think of ownership, you never own a rule.

You obey it or you disobey it.

You obey it or you disobey it.

But if you can develop standards, standards the way you do things all the time and you require others to do it, they they're kind of like rules. When we had standards meeting with our Duke team or the US team, I would get them into a meeting room, I'd say I prep them. I talked to three or four guys before and asked them if they would contribute. You never know if they will, but they did. And a simple world as a kid in our first meeting after I said, look each other in the eye, tell each other the truth is can anyone contribute? And it's a moment of truth because you don't know if any of them are going to And Jason raised his hand and he said, Coach, we should never be wait, you know, we should have respect for one another. And never be wait. And so I said, what do you guys think? And they said yeah, And I said, speaking of respect, we've gotten our bucks beat in four of the five last major competitions with the International World because we didn't practice well. We didn't think we needed a practice one standard. We can never have a bad practice, and it can't be my practice. It's a singular problem. It's got to be our practice. And really, for the eleven years I coached, we never had a guy wait, and we never had a bad practice. And we had our first team we had fifteen standards, but I never had a rule. But the standards are a way of living, you know, if you have to live only by rules, I don't know if it ever becomes yours. I'm not saying you should never have them. I don't like them. I'd rather go to standard route.

But if you can develop standards, standards the way you do things all the time and you require others to do it, they they're kind of like rules. When we had standards meeting with our Duke team or the US team, I would get them into a meeting room, I'd say I prep them. I talked to three or four guys before and asked them if they would contribute. You never know if they will, but they did. And a simple world as a kid in our first meeting after I said, look each other in the eye, tell each other the truth is can anyone contribute? And it's a moment of truth because you don't know if any of them are going to And Jason raised his hand and he said, Coach, we should never be wait, you know, we should have respect for one another. And never be wait. And so I said, what do you guys think? And they said yeah, And I said, speaking of respect, we've gotten our bucks beat in four of the five last major competitions with the International World because we didn't practice well. We didn't think we needed a practice one standard. We can never have a bad practice, and it can't be my practice. It's a singular problem. It's got to be our practice. And really, for the eleven years I coached, we never had a guy wait, and we never had a bad practice. And we had our first team we had fifteen standards, but I never had a rule. But the standards are a way of living, you know, if you have to live only by rules, I don't know if it ever becomes yours. I'm not saying you should never have them. I don't like them. I'd rather go to standard route.

What I used to do coach, I would have a lead bulls meeting, something I learned out of a missioner book, and I would try to get to at eight, maybe nine, most influential guys on the team. I'd get him in a room and I would just start throwing thoughts out to them, just different, how are we going to conduct ourselves, right, not necessarily rules, I thought, I refer to them as policies, and so what's important to us go And then around the room everybody would come up with different thoughts regarding policy, and we would discuss it, and I said, Okay, by the end of this discussion, whatever we decide, we're going to you guys are going to take it out to the team, to the group as a whole, and I want you to express to them exactly how we're going to conduct ourselves during the course of the year, whether it was in the clubhouse, on a plane, in a hotel, whatever it might be. Families in the clubhouse, kids in the on the field for batting practice, et cetera. But I found again, like you're saying, if you put it in their court no pun intended, I mean with the lead bulls, then I want them to carry on. And I'm going to say out of the way as much as I possibly can.

What I used to do coach, I would have a lead bulls meeting, something I learned out of a missioner book, and I would try to get to at eight, maybe nine, most influential guys on the team. I'd get him in a room and I would just start throwing thoughts out to them, just different, how are we going to conduct ourselves, right, not necessarily rules, I thought, I refer to them as policies, and so what's important to us go And then around the room everybody would come up with different thoughts regarding policy, and we would discuss it, and I said, Okay, by the end of this discussion, whatever we decide, we're going to you guys are going to take it out to the team, to the group as a whole, and I want you to express to them exactly how we're going to conduct ourselves during the course of the year, whether it was in the clubhouse, on a plane, in a hotel, whatever it might be. Families in the clubhouse, kids in the on the field for batting practice, et cetera. But I found again, like you're saying, if you put it in their court no pun intended, I mean with the lead bulls, then I want them to carry on. And I'm going to say out of the way as much as I possibly can.

I only interfered.

I only interfered.

What I thought was if it got to the point where there's just you need a tiebreaker, it's just it's just not working right, then it would come to me and I would tell them what I thought. But I'm really big on it was really big on listening, like you said earlier, and trying to have them create thought and then implement because after all, when the clubhouse in a Major League Baseball situation runs of its own will or relation, that's the best clubhouse you could possibly have. But it's constantly being imposed upon by me or coaches or front office, you're not going to get what you're looking for.

What I thought was if it got to the point where there's just you need a tiebreaker, it's just it's just not working right, then it would come to me and I would tell them what I thought. But I'm really big on it was really big on listening, like you said earlier, and trying to have them create thought and then implement because after all, when the clubhouse in a Major League Baseball situation runs of its own will or relation, that's the best clubhouse you could possibly have. But it's constantly being imposed upon by me or coaches or front office, you're not going to get what you're looking for.

Well, they own it, that's right, and that's great.

Well, they own it, that's right, and that's great.

It's there, you know, Tom when you're talking about like uh rurals on the court, like I might draw a play, you know what we're supposed to do. But I always told my guys to follow their instincts and I call it have an agility, uh making reads like if you see something you're gonna you're going to see some things that might be better than the play or within the play, go for it and uh and uh, I love that. I got the most out of that from from coaching because uh, it made your players smarter and more. They owned that also, And obviously they're not going to be successful all the time. But like I said, that was a good read, it didn't happen. Keep keep making those reads, and uh, I think you've win championships, big games by players are in the moment. Players are playing the moment. A coach or manager is not playing the moment. They're reacting to what a moment might be or what a moment just happened. And so if you have, like I call it on the court leadership of Lebron James, Gobi Bryant, Chris Paul, they're going to see some things in the moment that'll make you look like a hell of a coach. And if you have to wait for a damn time out, uh, you know to put in something, you're behind, You're you're you're behind. It's kind of like, I don't know our sport.

It's there, you know, Tom when you're talking about like uh rurals on the court, like I might draw a play, you know what we're supposed to do. But I always told my guys to follow their instincts and I call it have an agility, uh making reads like if you see something you're gonna you're going to see some things that might be better than the play or within the play, go for it and uh and uh, I love that. I got the most out of that from from coaching because uh, it made your players smarter and more. They owned that also, And obviously they're not going to be successful all the time. But like I said, that was a good read, it didn't happen. Keep keep making those reads, and uh, I think you've win championships, big games by players are in the moment. Players are playing the moment. A coach or manager is not playing the moment. They're reacting to what a moment might be or what a moment just happened. And so if you have, like I call it on the court leadership of Lebron James, Gobi Bryant, Chris Paul, they're going to see some things in the moment that'll make you look like a hell of a coach. And if you have to wait for a damn time out, uh, you know to put in something, you're behind, You're you're you're behind. It's kind of like, I don't know our sport.

A lot of.

A lot of.

Coaches stand up during a game, and that's okay, I'm not critical of that. I never stood up and with some yelling at an official, but I had my staff sit with me and they talked to me during the game. So John Shire, who's our new head coach, might say, Coach, we should do this right now while the game's going on. And so when there was a time out, I never had a staff huddle and then talk to the team. I was talking to the team to my staff the entire time, and it's just a different way. I'm not saying it's the approved solution, but for me, that worked for me, and I think every leader has to find out what's going to work for him or her in their leadership position.

Coaches stand up during a game, and that's okay, I'm not critical of that. I never stood up and with some yelling at an official, but I had my staff sit with me and they talked to me during the game. So John Shire, who's our new head coach, might say, Coach, we should do this right now while the game's going on. And so when there was a time out, I never had a staff huddle and then talk to the team. I was talking to the team to my staff the entire time, and it's just a different way. I'm not saying it's the approved solution, but for me, that worked for me, and I think every leader has to find out what's going to work for him or her in their leadership position.

Oh, Coach, I love hearing that because I think you just describe really the essence of leadership, not being a dictatorship, but empowering staff and especially the players that you are coaching. But it's important to remember that even someone as success as Coach K wasn't successful right out of the gate. When we get back after this quick break, I want to ask him about the learning curve.

Oh, Coach, I love hearing that because I think you just describe really the essence of leadership, not being a dictatorship, but empowering staff and especially the players that you are coaching. But it's important to remember that even someone as success as Coach K wasn't successful right out of the gate. When we get back after this quick break, I want to ask him about the learning curve.

When it comes to coaching.

When it comes to coaching.

Be right back, Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts. Coach K is our guest, and of course you know him for all of his national titles more than a thousand wins on the D one level. But Coach you said you wanted to be a coach slash teacher from the time you were sixteen years old, and the first time you got the chance to be the head guy was that Army your album Mater nineteen seventy five, seventy six, you go eleven and fourteen. It's not bad, Well, it's not what we associate with coach k today, and even at Duke, it probably took you till your fourth year to really turn the corner there. I'm interested not so much in your team growth, but in your own growth.

Be right back, Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcasts. Coach K is our guest, and of course you know him for all of his national titles more than a thousand wins on the D one level. But Coach you said you wanted to be a coach slash teacher from the time you were sixteen years old, and the first time you got the chance to be the head guy was that Army your album Mater nineteen seventy five, seventy six, you go eleven and fourteen. It's not bad, Well, it's not what we associate with coach k today, and even at Duke, it probably took you till your fourth year to really turn the corner there. I'm interested not so much in your team growth, but in your own growth.

What did you learn in.

What did you learn in.

Those early days of coaching that you wish you had known going in?

Those early days of coaching that you wish you had known going in?

Well, I think that there's you know, learning through experience is the best thing. And I took over to rebuilding programs at west Point the two years before me, they were seven and forty four, and over the five years we had really good success. But I learned how to do the dirty work. I learned how to I just learned about not just coaching, but how to build a program from ground up and through mistakes of successes. And you know, I had people give me the opportunity to coach at West Point, but they also believed in me. Opportunity followed by belief is the best opportunity. At Duke, my first three years we were I think thirty seven and forty eight, but that was not during the time of one and done. Ralph Sampson, Michael Chart and these guys were there for a long time and I had to not only learn how to coach at another level, I had to learn how to recruit at another level. The guys that were good for army, they weren't going to be good enough to win in the ACC or at a national level. And it took me a couple of years to learn that, and then we developed a system of recruiting that really was a foundation for me for my forty years there. But again I had an ad who believed in me to hire me. There are a lot of fans who wanted to be fired after my third year, a lot, and he said, you know, forget all you people.

Well, I think that there's you know, learning through experience is the best thing. And I took over to rebuilding programs at west Point the two years before me, they were seven and forty four, and over the five years we had really good success. But I learned how to do the dirty work. I learned how to I just learned about not just coaching, but how to build a program from ground up and through mistakes of successes. And you know, I had people give me the opportunity to coach at West Point, but they also believed in me. Opportunity followed by belief is the best opportunity. At Duke, my first three years we were I think thirty seven and forty eight, but that was not during the time of one and done. Ralph Sampson, Michael Chart and these guys were there for a long time and I had to not only learn how to coach at another level, I had to learn how to recruit at another level. The guys that were good for army, they weren't going to be good enough to win in the ACC or at a national level. And it took me a couple of years to learn that, and then we developed a system of recruiting that really was a foundation for me for my forty years there. But again I had an ad who believed in me to hire me. There are a lot of fans who wanted to be fired after my third year, a lot, and he said, you know, forget all you people.

This is my guy.

This is my guy.

And then we turned it around on that fourth year and we didn't look back.

And then we turned it around on that fourth year and we didn't look back.

Let me ask a question there too.

Let me ask a question there too.

Coach After all, then, of course here comes all this success on an annual basis, after a wonderful year, maybe a national championship, How would you challenge yourself to prepare for that next season? After kind of like mind bending success for so many years, how do you what did you do to motivate yourself?

Coach After all, then, of course here comes all this success on an annual basis, after a wonderful year, maybe a national championship, How would you challenge yourself to prepare for that next season? After kind of like mind bending success for so many years, how do you what did you do to motivate yourself?

What with the thoughts that you would incurred? It?

What with the thoughts that you would incurred? It?

Was it reading things, was it talking to people, was it listening? Was becoming introspective?

Was it reading things, was it talking to people, was it listening? Was becoming introspective?

How did you deal with that?

How did you deal with that?

Off season, getting ready for the next season after a very successful previous year.

Off season, getting ready for the next season after a very successful previous year.

Well, I always looked at why we were successful. So in the military you have after action reports, you critique what you've done, and it's not all good. Obviously if you win big, a lot of it was good. And then who do we have coming back?

Well, I always looked at why we were successful. So in the military you have after action reports, you critique what you've done, and it's not all good. Obviously if you win big, a lot of it was good. And then who do we have coming back?

You know?

You know?

And I always say, next play. You know, if I was a car uh, I would not have a rearview mayor you know, like I want to just look ahead.

And I always say, next play. You know, if I was a car uh, I would not have a rearview mayor you know, like I want to just look ahead.

And for me.

And for me.

Uh, I'm sure you've experienced this countless times, Joe. I wanted to be in the moment of my players. Yeah, as a I was not I was a good player, but I was in this. I wasn't on a national championship team and I wasn't uh jj Reddick and Shane Battier and all these guys.

Uh, I'm sure you've experienced this countless times, Joe. I wanted to be in the moment of my players. Yeah, as a I was not I was a good player, but I was in this. I wasn't on a national championship team and I wasn't uh jj Reddick and Shane Battier and all these guys.

Uh.

Uh.

I I loved being in the moment of my players. So I was anxious to go to the next moment. I'm always been hungry. Uh And I'm an anal preparer like I. Uh And so I was onto the next thing right away. And uh uh That's just how I've been I you know, And I usn't afraid to lose I just I didn't want to lose and h H and I wanted to win and winners. Everybody wants to win, not everybody wants to prepare to win. And a lot after a lot of success, of a great year, you can find that the preparation for success again wains and a lot of people, a lot of teams, and that that's why the storied careers of individuals Kobe Bryant and Lebron James and these guys, uh, they resonated because they were anal prepares. Kobe Bryant was the best prepared guy I've ever seen. Lebron is just like that. And in my profession, I wanted to be I call it being worthy of winning. You know, you don't always win when you're worthy of winning, but damn it, you're never going to win unless you're worthy of winning. And the other guy might be worthy of winning too and beat you, but at least you gave it your best. And uh, yeah, I think that's what that was. That was what I was supposed to do. That was my in the military, that was my mission, and I tried to do that. And after forty seven years and I'm seventy five years old, I got tired. I got tired of the amount of preparation and recruiting and uh, and it was time to plus, I'm seventy five, for press sake, it's time to I woke up one day, I said, hey, uncle, ahead, you're seventy five. And I walked and I said, no, you're you're lying to me. And the mirror doesn't lie, you know, it doesn't lie.

I I loved being in the moment of my players. So I was anxious to go to the next moment. I'm always been hungry. Uh And I'm an anal preparer like I. Uh And so I was onto the next thing right away. And uh uh That's just how I've been I you know, And I usn't afraid to lose I just I didn't want to lose and h H and I wanted to win and winners. Everybody wants to win, not everybody wants to prepare to win. And a lot after a lot of success, of a great year, you can find that the preparation for success again wains and a lot of people, a lot of teams, and that that's why the storied careers of individuals Kobe Bryant and Lebron James and these guys, uh, they resonated because they were anal prepares. Kobe Bryant was the best prepared guy I've ever seen. Lebron is just like that. And in my profession, I wanted to be I call it being worthy of winning. You know, you don't always win when you're worthy of winning, but damn it, you're never going to win unless you're worthy of winning. And the other guy might be worthy of winning too and beat you, but at least you gave it your best. And uh, yeah, I think that's what that was. That was what I was supposed to do. That was my in the military, that was my mission, and I tried to do that. And after forty seven years and I'm seventy five years old, I got tired. I got tired of the amount of preparation and recruiting and uh, and it was time to plus, I'm seventy five, for press sake, it's time to I woke up one day, I said, hey, uncle, ahead, you're seventy five. And I walked and I said, no, you're you're lying to me. And the mirror doesn't lie, you know, it doesn't lie.

Well, coach Kate listening to you, and I couldn't help but think of something that the great Vince Scully told me. It was his last year broadcasting Odd Your Games. He was still the best in the business after all those years, and I asked him, how could you possibly be still this good for this long? And he actually gave me a quote that he said he borrowed from Laurence Olivier when he was asked the same thing about acting. And I've never forgotten it, and I think there's so much truth to it to those who do it so well for so long. He said, it takes the humility to prepare and the confidence to pull it off. And I love that phrase, the humility to prepare, because to me, you just resonated that kind of spirit in that no matter how successful you are, you never take things for granted, and you understand what you don't know. You never stop learning, you never stop growing. And it's interesting to hear you say that I'm interpreting this, So correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, coach Kate listening to you, and I couldn't help but think of something that the great Vince Scully told me. It was his last year broadcasting Odd Your Games. He was still the best in the business after all those years, and I asked him, how could you possibly be still this good for this long? And he actually gave me a quote that he said he borrowed from Laurence Olivier when he was asked the same thing about acting. And I've never forgotten it, and I think there's so much truth to it to those who do it so well for so long. He said, it takes the humility to prepare and the confidence to pull it off. And I love that phrase, the humility to prepare, because to me, you just resonated that kind of spirit in that no matter how successful you are, you never take things for granted, and you understand what you don't know. You never stop learning, you never stop growing. And it's interesting to hear you say that I'm interpreting this, So correct me if I'm wrong.

You didn't want to just downshift.

You didn't want to just downshift.

You wanted the same level of preparation, but you got to a point where it just you knew you couldn't match that level, and that told you it was time to go really really interesting, and I think some similarities. There are people who do things this well at a high level for this long.

You wanted the same level of preparation, but you got to a point where it just you knew you couldn't match that level, and that told you it was time to go really really interesting, and I think some similarities. There are people who do things this well at a high level for this long.

And Tom, you know, I still want to learn. I'm very curious, and that's why I speak a lot on leadership and teamwork. And it's amazing. Over this last year, I've done so many events. How where where we're at people with communication, it's lacking, accountability is lacking, relationships are lacking. And things that we in the sports world understand are so important. People want to hear about that right now? How do we do that? How do we do that now? And there's a void there, there's a void there right now in our in our country.

And Tom, you know, I still want to learn. I'm very curious, and that's why I speak a lot on leadership and teamwork. And it's amazing. Over this last year, I've done so many events. How where where we're at people with communication, it's lacking, accountability is lacking, relationships are lacking. And things that we in the sports world understand are so important. People want to hear about that right now? How do we do that? How do we do that now? And there's a void there, there's a void there right now in our in our country.

Coach may to ask you this, I mean regarding that, and I agree with you on hundred percent. We've talked about that before we went on. But why are we lacking in those areas? Where's the breakdown from twenty thirty forty years ago? Where's the breakdown in regards to communicating these ideas? Why are we not accepting these ideas that we had in the past. Why are like actually some people repelling them.

Coach may to ask you this, I mean regarding that, and I agree with you on hundred percent. We've talked about that before we went on. But why are we lacking in those areas? Where's the breakdown from twenty thirty forty years ago? Where's the breakdown in regards to communicating these ideas? Why are we not accepting these ideas that we had in the past. Why are like actually some people repelling them.

Why? What's your take on that?

Why? What's your take on that?

Why do you think we've arrived at this point where we are lacking in all these wonderful well we perceive to be great qualities, which they are.

Why do you think we've arrived at this point where we are lacking in all these wonderful well we perceive to be great qualities, which they are.

Yeah, Well, I think a big thing is how we communicate, you know, with zoom phones. You know, COVID obviously took a major had on our society and we haven't recovered from that. People have gotten into the habit of not of not communicating or communicating very superficial officially. You know, I don't know how it worked with you. For me, I always coach the same age guys eighteen to twenty two getting older. So the thing that I had to it's called adaptability. I had to adapt and communication, you know, maybe two dozen times, like in the last couple of years. I'm in my seventies, I'm coaching eighteen and nineteen year old kids. You know, I found their attention span was shorter, so I had to get things done in a shorter period of time. Change locations. I need to show the pictures. I need to have my staff talk more. I needed so, and then I also needed to dress like I was younger, not as young as them, where your message was being being received. And then to go along with that, I just don't think the accountability factor is alive. And well, you know my meddal dog is a dean of students that are one of the top high schools here. She may have a parent come in and her kid got a C in of course, and so the teachers in the meeting, and they blame it on the teacher. And if I'm the teacher, I'm saying, you know, look, I didn't take Jimmy's test. Jimmy got to see. I can help Jimmy get a B or an A if he takes the responsibility of having to see. And we don't hold people accountable to do their best. And with accountability comes responsibility, and you're responsible for what you do, you are I can help you do it better that you're responsible for the successes and the failures. And you know, to change limits requires failure. You know, you don't get an app for a new town. You got to develop the new talent, and new talent there's failure in it. And and until you get success that that type of type of sick tuitiveness is not I don't think it's being taught. And then obviously the value system of our country has gone down with all the yeah in our political Yeah it's so we've taken ahead. Yeah, we've taken it. We've taken ahead, and we need to recover from that because it's not it's not good. It's not it's not good.

Yeah, Well, I think a big thing is how we communicate, you know, with zoom phones. You know, COVID obviously took a major had on our society and we haven't recovered from that. People have gotten into the habit of not of not communicating or communicating very superficial officially. You know, I don't know how it worked with you. For me, I always coach the same age guys eighteen to twenty two getting older. So the thing that I had to it's called adaptability. I had to adapt and communication, you know, maybe two dozen times, like in the last couple of years. I'm in my seventies, I'm coaching eighteen and nineteen year old kids. You know, I found their attention span was shorter, so I had to get things done in a shorter period of time. Change locations. I need to show the pictures. I need to have my staff talk more. I needed so, and then I also needed to dress like I was younger, not as young as them, where your message was being being received. And then to go along with that, I just don't think the accountability factor is alive. And well, you know my meddal dog is a dean of students that are one of the top high schools here. She may have a parent come in and her kid got a C in of course, and so the teachers in the meeting, and they blame it on the teacher. And if I'm the teacher, I'm saying, you know, look, I didn't take Jimmy's test. Jimmy got to see. I can help Jimmy get a B or an A if he takes the responsibility of having to see. And we don't hold people accountable to do their best. And with accountability comes responsibility, and you're responsible for what you do, you are I can help you do it better that you're responsible for the successes and the failures. And you know, to change limits requires failure. You know, you don't get an app for a new town. You got to develop the new talent, and new talent there's failure in it. And and until you get success that that type of type of sick tuitiveness is not I don't think it's being taught. And then obviously the value system of our country has gone down with all the yeah in our political Yeah it's so we've taken ahead. Yeah, we've taken it. We've taken ahead, and we need to recover from that because it's not it's not good. It's not it's not good.

Of course not.

Of course not.

And when you were talking about there, that resonated to me also is that you remain contemporary in your own way. You know, whether it was dress, whatever the appearance may have been. But I've always believed in that too. Jimmy Reech taught me that. I remember Jimmy.

And when you were talking about there, that resonated to me also is that you remain contemporary in your own way. You know, whether it was dress, whatever the appearance may have been. But I've always believed in that too. Jimmy Reech taught me that. I remember Jimmy.

Reees, Yeah, yeah, Jimmy.

Reees, Yeah, yeah, Jimmy.

Jimmy was the most contemporary ninety year old I've ever met in my life.

Jimmy was the most contemporary ninety year old I've ever met in my life.

And you know, the guys.

And you know, the guys.

He would make the guys laugh every day what they joked, and Jimmy just got it. He just got it, you know, whatever the joke was of the day, Jimmy got it. I always always thought that that's something I needed to do and I always wanted to do and not I guess again, it's an organic thing, hopefully and not so much intentional, but the wanting to remain contemporary and understanding what's.

He would make the guys laugh every day what they joked, and Jimmy just got it. He just got it, you know, whatever the joke was of the day, Jimmy got it. I always always thought that that's something I needed to do and I always wanted to do and not I guess again, it's an organic thing, hopefully and not so much intentional, but the wanting to remain contemporary and understanding what's.

Going on today.

Going on today.

But I mean, whether that's you know, the pop stuff, pop culture, whatever, that's easy to remain contemporary with that, but it's not easy to remain contemporary with the lack of values like you're just talking about right now. When you get a ball club, you know, the first thing in spring training you want is that's that's you know, the culture building is establish all this stuff. And I would just my hope would be that that, you.

But I mean, whether that's you know, the pop stuff, pop culture, whatever, that's easy to remain contemporary with that, but it's not easy to remain contemporary with the lack of values like you're just talking about right now. When you get a ball club, you know, the first thing in spring training you want is that's that's you know, the culture building is establish all this stuff. And I would just my hope would be that that, you.

Know, this becomes a popular again.

Know, this becomes a popular again.

And if there is any old why would that even be considered old school to be accountable?

And if there is any old why would that even be considered old school to be accountable?

I mean that that those are the kind.

I mean that that those are the kind.

Of things that I think they bother all of us, and these are the things we got to get a handle on because it's just going to keep getting worse unless we do.

Of things that I think they bother all of us, and these are the things we got to get a handle on because it's just going to keep getting worse unless we do.

So.

So.

You yes, remain contemporary as a as a coach, a leader, whatever, But at the same point, same time, you got to really require some old standards, some old ViOS like you're talking about to really make this thing work. Otherwise, I agree with you, it's going to keep going the wrong direction.

You yes, remain contemporary as a as a coach, a leader, whatever, But at the same point, same time, you got to really require some old standards, some old ViOS like you're talking about to really make this thing work. Otherwise, I agree with you, it's going to keep going the wrong direction.

You know you bring up and something I've admired about you, humor is huge in teaching culture. Like you, it can't be heavy all the time. And even though I don't look like I joke around when I'm on the sidelines, behind the scenes, I have a great sense of humor. I cut up with the guys all the time and whatever. And in watching you, I mean, you guys played one hundred you play one hundred and eighty games with spring training and all that. If you don't have a sense of humor, for crying out loud, it's going to get old real real quick. And I loved what you did, especially watched you with the Cubs, and you had a good sense sense of humor. You know, you didn't take yourself as serious even though you knew you were serious.

You know you bring up and something I've admired about you, humor is huge in teaching culture. Like you, it can't be heavy all the time. And even though I don't look like I joke around when I'm on the sidelines, behind the scenes, I have a great sense of humor. I cut up with the guys all the time and whatever. And in watching you, I mean, you guys played one hundred you play one hundred and eighty games with spring training and all that. If you don't have a sense of humor, for crying out loud, it's going to get old real real quick. And I loved what you did, especially watched you with the Cubs, and you had a good sense sense of humor. You know, you didn't take yourself as serious even though you knew you were serious.

And and people people you.

And and people people you.

Can get message across with jokes or fooling around and whatever can't just be heavy talks.

Can get message across with jokes or fooling around and whatever can't just be heavy talks.

And you've done that.

And you've done that.

I think that's something I've tried to do my entire especially as I got older as a coach, I did it even more. And it didn't matter that I didn't have to be humorous with all the writers, Like if Tom was interviewing, man, I could be more serious because I wasn't sure if this writers would catch our jokes.

I think that's something I've tried to do my entire especially as I got older as a coach, I did it even more. And it didn't matter that I didn't have to be humorous with all the writers, Like if Tom was interviewing, man, I could be more serious because I wasn't sure if this writers would catch our jokes.

Joe, that's right, man, right over their heads, coach, right over their heads. Yeah, I know sometimes these guys.

Joe, that's right, man, right over their heads, coach, right over their heads. Yeah, I know sometimes these guys.

Yeah, well they use that. Some of their words have more syllables than the.

Yeah, well they use that. Some of their words have more syllables than the.

Ones we uh we Well.

Ones we uh we Well.

I remember Joe gathering his team together in the outfield before spring training workouts, and I was thinking, Man, I wonder what strategy they're going over, you know, maybe this is about fundamentals or relay plays. It turns out he literally had the joke of the day. That was how they started their day.

I remember Joe gathering his team together in the outfield before spring training workouts, and I was thinking, Man, I wonder what strategy they're going over, you know, maybe this is about fundamentals or relay plays. It turns out he literally had the joke of the day. That was how they started their day.

Oh yeah, I mean I had Tim Buss with the Angels and with the Cubs. Bussy is the best coach if you whenever you're going on to next I know working with the NBA right now a little bit.

Oh yeah, I mean I had Tim Buss with the Angels and with the Cubs. Bussy is the best coach if you whenever you're going on to next I know working with the NBA right now a little bit.

But this guy, he's a glue you need. This is one of our original premises with.

But this guy, he's a glue you need. This is one of our original premises with.

This show is glue guys, and you have to have the glue guys and Louke. Every Glue guy I've ever met is a pretty funny dude, and everybody gravitates.

This show is glue guys, and you have to have the glue guys and Louke. Every Glue guy I've ever met is a pretty funny dude, and everybody gravitates.

Towards them and they listen to him.

Towards them and they listen to him.

That's right, that's right, you know, that's right.

That's right, that's right, you know, that's right.

I'm sure you've done this. But a lot of times when I had messages to get across to a player, I would talk to another player to get that message across, so peer to peer, you know, Also it helps them develop a relationship. And doing that me with that guy, you mean you want me to Yeah, you can explain this better than me, really, yeah you can.

I'm sure you've done this. But a lot of times when I had messages to get across to a player, I would talk to another player to get that message across, so peer to peer, you know, Also it helps them develop a relationship. And doing that me with that guy, you mean you want me to Yeah, you can explain this better than me, really, yeah you can.

And then later.

And then later.

Asked the kid, how did you feel, some coach, I felt great about doing that, and I said, we'll follow up, follow up with it. And then so you're developing individual relationships with you want to play and the players, players and players, which then are the foundation for your total relationship with the team. And now you can't just develop the three like the tom you mentioned the word earlier dictatorship, that that's just the one to a bunch relationship, that that can't happen, that's not that's not going to work.

Asked the kid, how did you feel, some coach, I felt great about doing that, and I said, we'll follow up, follow up with it. And then so you're developing individual relationships with you want to play and the players, players and players, which then are the foundation for your total relationship with the team. And now you can't just develop the three like the tom you mentioned the word earlier dictatorship, that that's just the one to a bunch relationship, that that can't happen, that's not that's not going to work.

Well, Joe, glad you mentioned glue guys.

Well, Joe, glad you mentioned glue guys.

We're going to take a quick break because I've been waiting to ask Coach K about identifying blue guys and some of his favorites will dive into that right now for this cool.

We're going to take a quick break because I've been waiting to ask Coach K about identifying blue guys and some of his favorites will dive into that right now for this cool.

Okay, Coach K. Glue guys.

Okay, Coach K. Glue guys.

I mean, we talked about some of the changing values that coaches, not just parents have to deal with. What I've seen, at least in baseball, is it the culture is more self centered than it used to be. That to me, hallmarks of teamwork are diligence, selflessness, and now we have a culture that sort of rewards individuality, which is not itself bad, but I think it makes it more difficult in a team environment. I'm thinking about the baseball showcase circuit, or instead of playing for a team and playing winning baseball, you are trying to showcase your skills individually. So for you, Coach K, when you go out, you're on the recruiting trail, and obviously it begins with talent. We all know that, But can you and did you identify guys who will be those glue guys that can make a team a team that see beyond themselves.

I mean, we talked about some of the changing values that coaches, not just parents have to deal with. What I've seen, at least in baseball, is it the culture is more self centered than it used to be. That to me, hallmarks of teamwork are diligence, selflessness, and now we have a culture that sort of rewards individuality, which is not itself bad, but I think it makes it more difficult in a team environment. I'm thinking about the baseball showcase circuit, or instead of playing for a team and playing winning baseball, you are trying to showcase your skills individually. So for you, Coach K, when you go out, you're on the recruiting trail, and obviously it begins with talent. We all know that, But can you and did you identify guys who will be those glue guys that can make a team a team that see beyond themselves.

Yeah, you know, well, we always look for character, even in like the Latner, the Tatum or whatever, because I always coached my best players the hardest. I always felt that a great player wanted to be better, and instead of using the player, I was going to develop that player. And sometimes I tell them I'm going to get on your butt like crazy today and that'll show the other guys stuff. And and being the best players lonely because there's a certain amount of jealousy on every in every unit and h and so you have to get over that. The blue guys are the guys. They they have personalities that are a little bit different.

Yeah, you know, well, we always look for character, even in like the Latner, the Tatum or whatever, because I always coached my best players the hardest. I always felt that a great player wanted to be better, and instead of using the player, I was going to develop that player. And sometimes I tell them I'm going to get on your butt like crazy today and that'll show the other guys stuff. And and being the best players lonely because there's a certain amount of jealousy on every in every unit and h and so you have to get over that. The blue guys are the guys. They they have personalities that are a little bit different.

Uh.

Uh.

You know, one of my best blue guys became one of my best leaders, Steve Wojob. You know, he was our hardest worker and and he Blue guys feel the pulse of a team. They batty a on my even though he is a National Player of the Year. He was playing with Jason Williams, Carlos Boezer, Mike Donlevy. And so sometimes a blue guy doesn't mean that they're bad plains. A blue guy can be You're actually your best player. It's the guy that has the personality. His personality can permeate through the entire team that people will listen listen to him, that he'll say something in a huddle. You know, sometimes at a time out, I would ask battye a what do you think? And he'd say something that's better than me. A cool story. When we won our national championship in two thousand and one, our first practice, you know, we stretch to go and usually I would say something to him, and Beattier got the team together and he said something, and I said, let's go. I said, I said to myself, I can't say that better than what he said. And then after practice, I said, how did you think of that? He said, what do you mean what you said? He said, I don't know, Coach, I just said what I felt. I said, well, keep doing that. I didn't talk to the team the rest of the year. Right after he talked to the team every day and then, but he also talked to the team on the court. See a blue guy to me, a lot of catchers are glue guys. They uh and their voice goes out to everybody, and so if if they can talk and whatever. And again there we talked earlier about being in the moment. Those glue guys are like that. John Shire, who's the new head coach here, he was that type of player and blue guy for us when we play our last national championship in twenty fifteen, Quinn Cook was that guy. He just had the personality to do that, and he, you know, after a Practicas Jones was a freshman, he was a senior. You'd see him walking off the court and Quinn had his arm around him, you know, like good job and whatever. So but again, a blue guy doesn't mean it's it's like a role player all the time. A glue guy can be your best player too.

You know, one of my best blue guys became one of my best leaders, Steve Wojob. You know, he was our hardest worker and and he Blue guys feel the pulse of a team. They batty a on my even though he is a National Player of the Year. He was playing with Jason Williams, Carlos Boezer, Mike Donlevy. And so sometimes a blue guy doesn't mean that they're bad plains. A blue guy can be You're actually your best player. It's the guy that has the personality. His personality can permeate through the entire team that people will listen listen to him, that he'll say something in a huddle. You know, sometimes at a time out, I would ask battye a what do you think? And he'd say something that's better than me. A cool story. When we won our national championship in two thousand and one, our first practice, you know, we stretch to go and usually I would say something to him, and Beattier got the team together and he said something, and I said, let's go. I said, I said to myself, I can't say that better than what he said. And then after practice, I said, how did you think of that? He said, what do you mean what you said? He said, I don't know, Coach, I just said what I felt. I said, well, keep doing that. I didn't talk to the team the rest of the year. Right after he talked to the team every day and then, but he also talked to the team on the court. See a blue guy to me, a lot of catchers are glue guys. They uh and their voice goes out to everybody, and so if if they can talk and whatever. And again there we talked earlier about being in the moment. Those glue guys are like that. John Shire, who's the new head coach here, he was that type of player and blue guy for us when we play our last national championship in twenty fifteen, Quinn Cook was that guy. He just had the personality to do that, and he, you know, after a Practicas Jones was a freshman, he was a senior. You'd see him walking off the court and Quinn had his arm around him, you know, like good job and whatever. So but again, a blue guy doesn't mean it's it's like a role player all the time. A glue guy can be your best player too.

Joe, I'm sure you loved hearing that about catchers, being a former catcher yourself, but there is something to that.

Joe, I'm sure you loved hearing that about catchers, being a former catcher yourself, but there is something to that.

He is dead on.

He is dead on.

Yeah, he was right on the money with that coach.