The Book of Joe podcast is a production of My Heart Radio. Hey there, welcome back to the latest edition of the Book of Joe Podcast with me, Tom Berducci and my good buddy Joe Madden. Joe, how you doing today? I am well, Tom, thank you very much, and I'm really excited about this morning's guest. You really tried to help me a couple of days ago. Actually you did a lot of good stuff from me, just a matter of me taking it to the actual golf course. But this guy is this guy is fantastic. All the boys back there in Long Beach love him, and we're gonna talk about that in a moment. But Brett really appreciate it coming on this morning, and we have a busy schedule. It's eight o'clock in the morning there in Long Beach areas, so we really appreciate it. Yeah, my pleasure. Thanks for having me, got it. So this is sort of the sweet spot for Joe and probably for me to you talk about the intersection of golf baseball. Yeah, we'll get into that too, and instruction right teaching. This is really cool to have on Brett Letterer. He is at the Virginia Country Club in Long Beach where he works with Jimmy Mulligan, the CEO there, and Jamie coaches Nellie and Desca Corda, Patrick Cantley. Of course you've heard of them. He's also a veteran of what twelve years playing the tours, Brett Um, so he's got a lot of playing experience as well. So welcome to the podcast, Brett. And uh, let's get right into it, because I'm always curious about how guys get into what they do. So obviously you start out with some dreams as being a being on the PGA tour as a player. Give me the idea of your entree into the instruction side of things. Yeah, I always kind of had a niche for coaching, and um when I got done A graduated from lom Me Stay in two thousand and seven and then played for twelve years kind of on the corn Ferry Tour and uh PGA Tour of Canada. And even when I was playing, I kind of you know, we're all golf nerds out there, and you know, you're on the road so much, and I always enjoy just kind of hanging out on the range and UM ended up kind of helping out my buddies on the range during the tournaments when I was playing, and I kind of knew if if finally get on the PGA Tour and have a great career like the best players in the world, that um I wanted to coach. I've just always kind of enjoyed the golf swing and and there's so much into the coaching part of it, and it's it's interesting to me and um now I've been coaching at Virginia for U a little over four years now, and so far, so good. I'm loving it. You sta something right there. I mean, it's interesting because you played that long, whether it's corn Ferry or up in Canada. What do you think is the one thing that possibly held you back? Because it sounds like you are a good self evaluator and sometimes people have a very difficult time with that. So what was the component of your game that you thought was lacking? Yeah, I always kind of think about it, and I kind of you know, it's one of those things like I wish I knew then what I knew now kind of thing, especially being around a bunch of the best players in the world, excuse me, and watching what they're doing now, I'd say My biggest weakness was probably my my distance. And and when I turned pro in two thousand and seven to now, the game has changed quite a bit. Um. Distance wasn't anything like it is now. You know, back when I turned pro, you know, the trainers and the physios and all all the speed stuff wasn't where it is now. And I was kind of a short hitter back then. So the game over the twelve years I played, UM changed a lot, and I kind of got left behind a little bit in the in the distance aspect of it. That's really interesting, Britt, because you are I think listed at five nine sixty, so obviously not a bigger guy. Do you think the game now is is almost biased against the shorter, smaller player because of technology, uh and the way the other the bigger guys have taken over in terms of their length. I do. I mean, I don't think you have to be a huge guy, Um. I mean j T and Rory. There there's a lot of good players hit it hard that aren't big guys, um, and especially now, a lot of them. Um. You know, they've got the best trainers in the world, and it's pretty interesting what they're doing to get more speed and all the technology with force plates and ground forces and all the exercises they're doing. Um, it's just gotten to a crazy level, you know, of of how good the trainers are and how diligent the players are. So but yeah, you're you're right it. It's definitely helpful. I think to be bigger. You know, you've got someone like John wrong is his thighs probably bigger than my waist, um and he and he smashes it. So I think definitely size helps for sure regarding all that. And because I was with just with him a couple of days ago and we really had a great time out there. I just some new things I just got. I was under his watchful eye. But the thing that I was I was hitting coach also in the Angels minor league system in a little bit into big league level two. Um, I'm always curious because I know what I did as a hitting coach. Your process the first time you look at a player, the first time somebody shows up at the range with you there, well, is there is there a first spot that you look to, a first part of the body that you're trying to decipher whether you like it or not, and then build from there. So what is what is your process when you see a golfer for the first time. Yeah, that's a good question. Um, probably a few minutes chatting with them just to kind of get to know them and what I'm dealing with, trying to get them to be a better golfer. And you know, it's a lot different, um, you know, from your average member at Virginia Country Club who gets lessons to a tour player who's trying to play, you know, for a living. So a lot of times that that's gonna make a big difference. But as far as once you kind of get into it, even a bunch of my guys make fun of me, like they'll go on the road for a few weeks and come back and and we spend ten or fifteen minutes just on their on their set up. So I'm big on like alignment and posture and the way I look because you know, if that you know, it's always like now, now the best players in the world, you know, how how their coaches with them almost every week, and a lot of it isn't necessarily like something's wrong, but even when it's going well, to have eyes on you to make sure you're kind of staying in the right lane so that you don't get off a lot of times, like for example, a right hander might you know, get they're playing and win over the weeks and the coach isn't there, and they get aimed a little bit to the right, and now they're going to compensate for that. They get a little over it, and you know, you do that for a few weeks, and then if the coach isn't there, they get home and everything's kind of off because you know that the setup or the alignment or the posture of the ball physician was off first. I'm always that's always first. So before you go into that, you know, you gotta be you gotta look right in alignment, right addressed before you get into anything else. I love that you don't even mention mechanics right there. I mean, that's that's really uh. I'm pretty much the same way as a hitting coach. I always look at the feet, work my way up, looking results, and work backwards. And you always wanted to get in a conversation what do you do? What are you saying? Right? Are you seeing the ball? Balls? The ball look quick as it looks small? Um, all those kind of different factors outside of the physical mechanics. Are always looking for the physical pantasy. How how are we gonna get fixed my backswing? Um, you know, how I'm delivering the club to the ball, my finish head position, all these different things we always want, uh information, We want this, this, uh these thoughts that make us so much better. But like you're saying, and you're you're talking about the posture and set up and and then I'm talking about position in the batter's box, where your feet, I mean, all those things that I think we overlook because we we want to right away get to a mechanical fix. We always want Mr Good Wrench to show up and tweak a couple of things with their wrench and all of a sudden we feel better. But you're you're really describing the process as far as I can see, as I did it also as a baseball hooding instructor, too right. And then pace or temper wherever you want to call it, I think it's really important as well. Um and then um, like I've I've enjoyed getting to talk to you. I remember a couple of years ago and you can't out and I was kind of picking your brain and we got to spend a couple hours together, and you know, I probably worry out with all these questions. But one of the things that you know, like like you said, like staying away from mechanics for a little bit. Um. You know, I asked you, I remember a couple years ago ago, have you ever told the invited hold the bat tighter or harder? And he said, no, you told me that you know, I impact or when they hit the ball, they're gonna be holding it tight enough, and stuff like that. Like you know, and when you came out the other day, you know, the tempo or longer right, like is it longer um pace wise or is it longer like actually make a longer backswing um. So a lot of times you can get the mechanical or the technical fix with with with a pacing or a lightness thing. So a lot of times when you you know that the step gets better and the pace gets better, that technical thing that's off kind of fixes itself. And and to be honest, sometimes I think we get lucky and if something's off and you tell him to slow it down or make it longer, aim here, move the ball here, and all of a sudden it falls back into place and you don't need to get into the technical thing, which I think ideally is best. Right, Like, the less information or you getting the player's head, the better. I can say, Amen to that. I cannot agree more. You know, it's abouty years ago making a connection here to baseball. I remember talking to Mark McGuire, who was a really good golfer himself hit the ball a mile and a half and he played on in some pro ams. And I asked him, Mark, what's the difference from and he's really good, what's the difference between your game and a professionals game? And he thought the one thing that really stood out is the ability of the pro to shape the ball anyway that they wanted. And I'm wondering bread as you work with you know, the courtas and the cant Lee's. I mean, you're talking about the one percent of the golf world. What does that one percent do that even the good, really good professional golfers are trying to do. Yeah, that's a good question, um that I think that the best guys in the world are. It's funny, like I just heard a thing with Mark Blackburn is one of the best coaches in the world. He was like the two thousand and twenty one National PGA teacher and coach there, and then Jamie Mulligan, who I've been lucky that have been around for thirty years now. He was the next year is coaching there. But you know it's Mark Blackman was talking about Tiger and how good Tiger was at shaping shots, like like you're talking about Mark McGuire mentioned, And I think even most PGA Tour players don't need to do that that much, meaning like, get really really good at at your best shot. You know, whether it's a draw or fade or straight ball higher lower, and you can hit that shot most of the time. So I think a lot of times even the best guys in the world get get too hung up and trying to hit like the perfect shots. So if you got two twenty to a right pin, these guys are hitting five iron and you know they depends on the right and they kind of want to fade it in there, which sure like Tiger did it and it looks pretty, but you know, from to twenty, if you hit it fifteen feet left and make a you know it takes you three to get in the hole. From there, you're winning and you're you're picking up shots skating on the field there. Um, so I think the best guy. I mean, sure they can shape it right, and like if you're behind a tree and they move, need to move it one way or another. They're they're all good enough to do that. Um, but I think I think it gets a little overrated, you know, from from further away where I kind of like to my guys. You know, like if you're a five iron is a three yard draw and we got two twenty to the right pin, just you know, start at ten feet left and hit a three three yard drawn, you got twenty ft left of the pin towards the middle of the green. Beautiful stuff right there. I mean with regarding all this, and we're strying to stay away from mechanics, but never unless you have to practice with these with these really good players. UM say they're in between tournaments and they come see you at Virginia. Um, how how often? How many days did they practice? How many days per week do they practice? And just a dovetail into that question, just curiously, the day that they do play pre game like batting practice? How what what is a good batting practice? How long should it last? How what's the progression you're looking for, So how many days do you actually practice between tournaments? And then actually the day of a tournament, what does your batting practice look like? Yeah, so like say, you know, i'd say three in a row somewhat normal for a tour player. So they go on the road for three in a row, and then they'll you know, so it even depends if they have one week off for two weeks off. If you have one week off, right, you're probably gonna take off Monday and Tuesday for sure, maybe Wednesday, and then you know, so you're gonna either start passing again on Wednesday or Thursday, and then usually you probably leave on Sunday for the next week. So two weeks off is kind of nice because you can shut it down maybe for four or five days, and you still have another ten days of of prep before you hit the road. And then as far as each day, it's I think it's important that they have a game planet, and usually I'll help them with that, like what are we gonna do today, Like, you know, we'll talk about the last stretch three weeks in a row. Okay, you know, what do we need to tidy up or what do you want to do before you hit the road again. Um. And it's different right the pregame or the batting practice type thing, Like if they're gonna maybe they're gonna play eighteen holes, right, so then we're not gonna do a three hour of practice before eighteen whole round. But if they're not going to play at all and they're just gonna practice, we might practice for three or four hours, and a lot of times it's kind of in the middle. Maybe practice for two hours and then play nine holes. Um. But it kind of just depends. But I'd say, like a normal practice day, if they're not gonna play, like we probably spend most time on the range. Maybe if they're gonna pass for three hours, may two hours on the range, um, thirty minutes of puttying and thirty minutes of chipping, and if they are going to play, a lot of times I kind of like to like, if they're gonna go play, let's do it like it's a tournament. So it's almost like practice for myself as well with them, like, Okay, you know it's Sunday at a tour event, and um, so I'm gonna help them with their warm up and and it's way less technical let's hit some balls than Um, so it's kind of keeping them in their same routine as if they were on the road going to play. Very cool. Yeah, let's take a quick break and we get back. I want to follow up with Brett on something he mentioned about technology and golf and the connection to baseball. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. Our guest is Brett Letter or teaching bro at Virginia Country Club and Lots in Long Beach. Excuse me, Brett. You mentioned something about technology, and I know, for instance, track man has its roots in golf and it worked its way into baseball. It's become a big part of how baseball is taught. Um, So give me an idea of how much technology now and you've sort of alluded to this has crept into golf and how much it drives the instruction of the game. Yeah. I think it's interesting. Obviously I'm not a baseball expert, but kind of my my whole family is being in baseball. So I've always been a baseball fan and i've always and I've got to chat with Joe a bit about it over the last few years. Um, but it's very interesting the correlation with all the information out there now and um, you know, kind of Joe's philosophy. It reminds me of like where you know, it's similar, I think to what I'm doing. There's so much information out there, but at the end of the day, like the guy has got to hit the right shot at the right time. And um, I mean there's so much numbers out there now, you know, like of decade golf is kind of this this newer thing that that a bunch of the guys are using, um, and it's you know, it's kind of like how to play. And it's interesting talking to some of the older guys, like like John Cook is a mentor of mine over the years, and and he's you know, one of the probably the smartest golfer I've ever seen, And you know, he's kind of like, well, we've always done this decade golf thing. It just wasn't called that, or it wasn't as as mathematical as it is now, right, I mean to the point where you know, you got a pitching wedge in your hand with a left pin and they're really good and they're they're gonna you're gonna He's like, well, we we go right at the pin. And you know with a foreign you don't. And that's kind of what it is now. It's just you know, precise to the fact that, okay, your foreign you know you should hit a four teen feet right here based on your dispersion all this, And I think the numbers are great, but I just haven't in my opinion, you know, the the guys and the caddy like by the way, like John Wood on your show a couple of weeks ago, like did a great job, and you know you can tell he's a great caddy and he's doing well on TV now. He could totally tell he gets it in the moment. You know, it's not we're not aiming fourteen feet right if you have to turn it into a field and everyone's on the on the same page, isn't I mean when you were talking about that, and there is a lot of similarities and I just wrote my notes as you were talking about decade golf you call it. Yeah, And the fact that John Cook said you've always done that, isn't that pretty much common sense defined? I mean, you get it supported by numbers. In other words, you've thought that, you've thought this for years, you still think this way, and then all of a sudden, technology comes along and kind of reinforces exactly what you've already always thought. So then in a way or in a sense, it provides more confidence possibly. And the way you're thinking is that is that part of how you see the utilization of this kind of technology. Yeah, I think that's a that's a good point. Yeah, so maybe it's reinforcing someone that's using it to the t, you know, like okay when I but like, for example, a lot of the kids you know are doing it, like the college kids we coach, and we're trying to help them, and it's always a field though, right like some I mean sometimes I've seen guys you know, water left pins left and they got a six iron from two hundred yards and they you know, they hit it to a foot and it's like, you know, I just felt really good over it, and I and I wanted to get aggressive, and I mean, who am I to tell them no if they know they're going to hit a good shot kind of a thing? Um, But yeah, yeah, it is you know now, like you said, it's mathematical and it's like an actual thing. But you know, even even on you're watching these guys on TV, like John john Wood on your show was talking about sometimes the caddy might think, okay, ten feet right here is probably the play, but there's no target even right ten feet right, and maybe like the G on the golf channel is twelve feet right, so okay, let's aim at the G here, which is close enough right, Like it's more important to have a good target than I mean, no one's gonna say, like, aim one ft left of the g. You know, let's just aim at the at the G. So, you know, always kind of more. I'm always trying to look at it more from what's actually gonna work for the player. So visualization is a huge part of each golf shot, yeah, you know, and being comfortable and committed to it. Um, yeah, absolutely. You know. It's interesting, Joe, I want to ask you and Brett this question because Brett you mentioned about working with some college kids. I wonder if you're finding that younger the younger generation learns differently that this is sort of first language for them when it comes to especially video but even technology. And Joe, I'll go back to your days with the Cubs. I remember talking to Mike Borzella when people really started getting into some of the technology that was available, um. And he said, guys like John Lester were afraid to go into that that room where all the technology was, and the younger guys couldn't get enough of it and probably weren't there too much. So how about that Bret teaching someone um of the younger generation And is it different? Yeah, I think it is. I think a lot of the veterans now, you know, all this stuff is new, so they are probably like Joe said, you know, they've been doing it forever and a lot of them are, you know, some of the best in the world that and I don't think they necessarily need to change the way do it. And then, like you said, the younger kids coming up are are growing up with it so that they don't know any different either. And I don't think one's necessary, um right or wrong. But for like a John Cook, for example, has been you know you want, eleven times on the PGA Tour and he's still playing a little bit on the Champions Tour. Now. I'm pretty sure he doesn't have any interests, you know, in learning this whole new system telling him how to play golf. I think he's really confident in in how he plays golf. In his course management and his golf, iight cues as high as I've seen. So someone like that, I don't think is going to be interested in it, um, like you said, but definitely the younger kids are growing up with it and it's a big part of what they're doing. Yeah. But even um, I agree with you just said about John Cook. But you're always open regardless with adriree because like for me, for instance, I I really champion fundamentals in the way it had been taught for years. But while I do that, I'm always open hearing new new things, new suggestions, new items. So to me, it's it's about morphing together, bringing together the old and the new school and just being in school. It's kind of where you want to be. Um. So I even I would, I would even bet like some of the veteran players, they may not admit to it openly, but in some ways they might take a look or peak a look at a track man and maybe a spin rate. How you know, what was the shape of that shot was the velocity ball off clubs. So sometimes you still may want to hear that, or not necessarily because it's going to change things. Again, it's a reinforcement tool for me if I'm totally screwed up. Yeah, I might. I might need some of that. I might need some of the very very slow motion stuff to help my mind understand exactly where I've gone a little bit awry. But I I My point is, I think it's wise to utilize everything and not just say I'm old school and I totally don't want to uh listen to anything new. And for the for that group that's coming along right now, to to to really disregard fundamentals and experience and feel of people that have come before you, I think missing a great resource. Also, Yeah, I agree, there's definitely a happy medium. I think, um for sure, and you're you're right, And and now even the guys that may not want all the information or the old school guys, like everyone's got all the best players in the world have a pretty good team, you know, so it might be like the agent or the manager's job right to kind of get out of all that information. And like John Wood was saying, the caddy is a huge part of that as well. So I think I think my favorite way to do it would be like the caddy and and the manager kind of take all the information right and have a talk with the coach and the player and then the player doesn't have to get too into it where where it's you know, they're they're thinking outside of how they normally do it. And um, the best cardies in the world, you know, can take all that information and without the player even knowing, Okay, we're gonna hit this far and fourteen feet right because that's what the numbers say we should do. And you know, the players just listen to him and he's saying, Okay, you see that guy with the red hat, We're going to aim at him. And you know, so that's why the Collies are so important. They can take all that information and and and do it the right way and the players just kind of hitting the shot and committing to it. Hey, Brett, can we talk about your family's baseball connection? Absolutely? Yeah, gone back, of course, your grandfather, George. He covered the Dodgers through a lot of years, the prime of Sandy Kofax's career, and then became an executive with the Angels. And Ross Newhan once had a note about George letter called him Anaheim's answer to Bill Veck. He was quite the promoter back in the day the Angels weren't drawing too well, And specifically, I remember the story in nineteen Brett when Um he brought into people from Rockwell International, the military space company, and had them rig up a measuring device to measure Nolan Ryan's fastball, and he had the fans show up and guess what the top velocity would be that night, and they did pack the joint. That night became a famous night where Nolan Ryan was clocked as hardest pitch was actually in the ninth inning of a game in which he threw up more than a hundred and fifty pitches. It was one hundred point eight miles per hour, and a lot of people think they were actually measuring the ball closer to home plate than actual out of the hand, so it was probably much higher than that. But yeah, give me an idea when Brett, I'm sure you've heard all those stories about him and and um your connection to baseball, the family's connection, how important that was for you growing up. Yeah, definitely a big baseball family, starting with my grandpa George. He passed away before I was born, but my dad and my uncle's have have told me all the stories and they're just huge huge baseball guys. So they're gonna be jealous I get to hang out with you too, and I'm you know, I'm the golfer guy. But somehow they're gonna be like, how did this guy get to hang out with you guys? But yeah, the during Sandy Kofax. So Sandy Kofax obviously, Um, My my dad was a big, big guy and he was a picture. Um he played a little bit after after high school and in college and stuff. But same shoes that some Sandy used to give his cleats to my grandpa and my dad would wear them. Um, they're you know, left handed pitchers. So I think my dad has like one filling Sandy Kofax's shoes literally literally, yeah, exactly. So Um, and then they got some Nolan Ryan stuff too, from when he was on the Angels. Um, so a bunch of Sandy Kofax and Nolan Ryan stuff when I was growing up. That's so cool. So give me an idea. As long as we're talking about baseball and golf here, Um, we haven't heard your scattering report on your latest client here, Joe Madden. Uh, we hear a lot about baseball swings. Maybe that's not good for golf, So break him down for us, kind, buddy, be kind. Yeah no, later on, later on, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, No, he's got no excuses. Now he's got all his new clubs and he's hitting his driver too sixty and he's got this uh, got this new seven when he's hitting two hundred yards up in the air. So there's no reason why he can't be shooting underpar. So new clubs and he hits it plenty far and so no no excuses, and I think we've got some under par scores coming soon. It's it's all about accuracy. You can't snap that anymore. You've been right here. It's all about accuracy. I've been making a lot better contact. He helped me a lot, but gosh, it's just my setup. Bred. I still I still got to get set up. I know we did the thing with the front foot open step back a little bit, but I've been just off to the right a little bit with my irons. I got to get him back on task. But the overall contact has been a whole lot better. Absolutely. Yeah. We had a fun day out there, and we used the track Man with Joe, which is one of the probably that the most used tool that all the PGA Tour guys are using it and it does everything. There's it has so much information and most of the guys are guys at least, and I think most of the PGA Tour players use it mostly for distance, and that's what Um, Joe and I mostly used it for it, and it's a great tool for that. You know, the carry distance, that told all distance, the height that spin and um. A perfect example is Joe just got new clubs. So when you're getting new clubs, you want to figure out how far it goes. And so you're not you're not guessing, it's telling you exactly how far it's going. So, yeah, we had a fun day out there and he was doing good. He can move it. Wow. You know, hey, listen, I don't know if you got him on the force plates or not, but I see them around baseball now. I mean, you talk about hitting in baseball, probably true in golf is done from the ground up. Give me an idea of what what force plates have done from an instructional point of view, Britt, Yeah, it's I mean, it's crazy, Um, the stuff they're measuring now, even you know, like how much weight I was on the left foot versus the right foot and address and you know a lot of guys you know, actually there's a slight pressure shift to the left for righty on on the way back, and then you know it gets loaded into the right foot and um that the map like the way the way that it shows you where the pressure is, you know, not just left or right, but you know he'll toe inside outside the whole foot, um so. And and that's that's gotten very popular, especially with the whole distancing right, Like, the better you already be able to use the ground, um and the more energy you're getting in off the ground, you know, the more speed you're gonna be able to generate. And that's obviously you know, it's kind of you know, they have it all figured out. Now. If you can hit it ten yards farther, you know, it's like a shot around, you know, on average. So the force plates enabling you to use the ground and get more speed, you're you're at the highest level with all that money online. It's it's a useful tool for sure, Joe, have you taken advantage of then, not just because we gotta do, Because that's what he was trying to get across to me. You know, get away from my shoulders primarily when I come over the top. It's all shoulders that really got to get the bottom half involved better and my finish it really did that. I was focusing on the finish so much better when I really get to that particular position and don't over the top. I want to just shoot myself. I mean it's I hate over the top. I hate off the toe. I hate the hard hook, and that's the next thing. It's getting rid of that for me. And it's my the way I finished the swing and utilizing the ground, just like he's talking about those those that's my focus right now. So when we get that played out there, but next time in Mount Town down in Long Beach, I definitely would like to give that a go. Yeah, it was interesting. A lot of like what we did with you right was like less careful, and we didn't we didn't have the force plates with us, so we we didn't we couldn't measure it. But like for example, Joe making a way bigger turn on the way back and the way he kind of set up his lower body to do that that it would have changed on the force plates for sure, like without changing like like let's add more weight on your right foot in the back swing. We didn't say that, but he definitely was just by making a bigger turn as left slowders working more over to his right side, and so there's definitely more more weight shift going on now for him, for sure. I'm going right to the range after we get done today, by the way, so play play, play the more range today. It sounds good. Hey, let's take a quick break when we get back. We've got more with Rent Letter stick around. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast and our guests Brett Letter or Brett Um. I know, listen, I enjoyed golf as much as anybody as well. Question I get asked a lot from people who maybe your casual like, what difference does the golf ball make? You've been around so long and taught so many different people. Explain to people why golf balls are not all the same. Yeah, the golf ball is a huge deal, um, and they're all they're all different a lot of it. The best, especially the best players in the world are they get used to one right and they they know what it does there in this win they can trust that. For example, Um, Patrick Cantley is using the two thousand nineteen pro V one xs and Tyler's comes out with a new prov one um every two years. UM, so like that he skipped the prov one accent and it so and obviously right there shouldn't be much a difference, but it's a little bit of a difference to the point when he's pressing UM out in Long Beach, he's got his golf ball, so he doesn't even practice with the probi when I just gets it's a little bit different. For example, like hit his spins a little less. The two thousand nineteen does a few hundred RPMs, which translates he he hits that golf ball two or two yards further, probably with his irons than uh x um. But yeah, there, it's interesting there, you know, summer launching higher, lower, more spin, less spin. For for the best guys in the world, a lot of it's the feel. Um. You know, they might try a new golf ball and hit one put with it, and then it's out. It doesn't matter how how good it's going to perform. If it if it doesn't feel right to them, then then it's out. You know. You might try to talk and into our seeing you know, club companies or golf ball companies. You no, look how good this is. It's flying farther and higher, and the spin is perfect and you know, but it doesn't feel right, um so, and and it's changed a lot over the years. It's pretty amazing the technology, how how fast it's coming off with the driver, and how good it is around the green still that soft feeling, being able to get a lot of spin around the greens. I was. I was told to use the bridge Stone ball when I went to the paying performance approving grounds. They did everything. Man, they they break you down in every possible way, the the lie of your club. I'm green with the paying irons, the shaft on my driver, and they set me up with a new putter, which is a straight shafted putter with no kind of angler ben in it. And my god, I mean, I've been putting incredibly better just with that one particular putter. But like you're talking about, they they said I should have a bridgetone I based on my swing and swing speed I guess, and everything else. It's incredible the way all this is broken. And actually when I hit the bridge Stone I could actually draw the ball more readily or easily than I can with the titleist. I don't know why. I look, they're bigger dimples, but all this little stuff I guess, uh it does play in then I'm listening. I'm not good enough to worry about that, but it's interesting how it's all considered. What's interesting just to follow up on that, it's not just I mean, Joe, you talked about your your sticks. And I'll go back again to the baseball parallel and talk to Nolan Arronado, who, after playing in Colorado gets traded to the Cardinals. Obviously, it's much more of a pitcher's park than than in Denver, and he felt like he could hit the ball the same exit vel and it wasn't traveling as far in St. Louis makes sense, right, So he said, I have to figure out a way to get a little higher exit velocity. So what he did, and this has really become really very popular around the baseball now, is he went to a bat fitting performance center, just as you would as Joe did, to find the right clubs to hit, and he wound up getting a bat that was essentially the same size and weight, but this different distribution. It has a like a hockey puck style counterweight at the bottom where the knob is. It's a huge knob and he felt like he got the bat through the zone faster. Um. That has really taken root in baseball as well. Again, another parallel between golf and baseball. So, Brent, when I mentioned the golf ball, I'm sure that it's probably exponentially greater. To make sure you have the right set of sticks. Yeah, and they definitely go together, right, So you know, you might be using this golf ball and it's perfect for you, and then you go get a new driver and maybe now you gotta get a new golf ball as well. Um, different spin right to a big part of it, especially um with the driver. So basically, you know, the higher you launch it that for distance purposes, the the less spin you're gonna have. So um, the less spin you want. Sorry, the higher you launch it, the less spin you want. Um. That's kind of thing that everyone's trying now is like that that high launch, low spin. Someone that likes to see it lower. You know, maybe they're gonna launch it at ten degrees instead of thirteen degrees with the driver that that person is going to need more spin and you know, right, and it kind of goes back to telling them what's better. Wrong. You know, some of the best players in the world like to see it come out lower, so they they're probably going to be more likely to use a golf ball that spins more because they like to see that lower trajectory. But but you're totally right. Getting everything dialed in and and having the golf ball work with the golf clubs and especially the driver is super important. Why are the ladies so accurate with the irons? I watched them on TV. They never miss a green man, they never missed a green and regulation. Oh you're right. Um, I'm not sure I know why they are, but I agree with you. They hit it so good. They don't miss very many fairways, and from a repetition standpoint, it's impressive. Um. In general, they don't curve it very much. They tend to hit it pretty straight, and it's like watching iron Byron out there on the range. But when you got some of the best ladies in the world, it's it's as repetitive as any of the best guys I've seen. And that the Ladies Tour has gotten a lot better and it's been fun to watch. I'm super happy for the them and um, their their schedules are better, their purses are better, and uh, it's gonna I think it's gonna be a good couple of years for the LPGA tour. The thing I see and quickly is that effort level seems to be non existent. They're so casual with their swing in a sense, and their tempo is incredible. Joe, I was just about to say the same thing to my untrained eye. It's all about tempo. It's just very rhythmatic. Nobody is too fast, and obviously you know the court as well. They have what to me looks like very long swings. But the tempo is just beautiful. It's really really impressive to watch them up close. Hey, Joe, now it's time for our segment. It is a reading from the Book of Joe Brett. When we get a guest on here, we like to say that you can pick any page in our book, you'll find something that's interesting. And so to put that to the test, we have our guests to pick a random number between one and three, dred and sixty eight and we'll dive in and see what's on that page. So you're on the tea box Brett, it's your call giving me number any number eighty four. I don't think you want to eighty four in your scorecard, Joe. You want to do better than that. So but I guess that's that's three trips to the bunkers. That's fairway bunk Any reason why you picked that number, just that's kind of my go to just that year I was born in. So now you know all my all my past codes. Uh. This is Joe looking back on Game seven of the sixteen World Series and how you you kind of go in with a plan, and it doesn't mean you have to be wedded to it, but you start out with a plan and let the game dictate where you want to go. So this is basically about your bullpen usage Joe in Game seven. Again, before the game, you know there are all these numbers created, matrix numbers, whatever. And of course, when you don't know your guy or you don't know the guy you're facing, sometimes these do become more important. But if you know your guy and you've seen this other team often enough, easily could make your decisions pregame and during the game based on what you've been seeing. Void of any of the kind of this information. It doesn't really matter at that point. I know what I know, I know what I see, I know who my picture is right now, I know what that hitter is like. I know what he's been like more recently because I've researched that. So you then make the decision. Now, to me, that's gut. That is not analytics. It's just based on information. That's normal stuff that's been going on for the last how many years, I don't know, forever. Managers have been making these kind of decisions based on that forever. And that's the bullpen. How about that bread that sounds like John Cook wrote that, Yeah exactly. Yeah, and you guys, I started the book. I haven't finished it, yeah, but I've really enjoyed it so far. You guys have done a great job with it. It's a it's a good read for sure, Thanks buddy. Yeah, I mean that's the bullpen part of it. Um, And it's it's kind of cool to be compared to John Cook. I agree. There's I've talked about feel being the gift of experience. You have to go through so many hours of doing something to be able to I think comfortably say or say with confidence. I felt that or I feel that it's something I saw, so I went with it was my gut. If you haven't put in the time, if you haven't earned the right to say, I I felt it. Um, I really believe that. So for me, I believe I've earned the right to do. I know I have, and the hours have been put in, the different situations have been recognized, the different conversations have been had, So I get it. And that's what I'm saying earlier. I think the combination of old school news school being in school, you try to combine everything at your disposal and try to then make come to the right conclusions or make the best decisions. Yeah. Yeah, you talk a lot about feel in the book, and I totally agree. I'm always asking the player, you know, even on the range good or bad, what does that feel like? What does that feel like? And and I think, you know, even if you're trying to make a mechanical change, you know, and there it's got a it's got a it's got to be a feel. You know, you've got it's gotta they've gotta feel something. And and we're always trying to you know, what what are we gonna feel in order to get this where we want it right on, Joe, Doesn't that always go back to what you say too as a hitting instructor. Once that player comes back to you and says I feel it, yeah, then you know you've arrived at something. Yeah. That with my my litmus test there was you know, you're you're observing, you're standing off to the side always well I always try to watch from the open side, and you're trying to get a point across, get a point across, and all of a sudden he says, I felt it. And if he says that at the time when you're observing, he's doing the right thing. Now you have something. So if he's saying to you, I feel something. I felt that, you you see that it's not necessarily right or correct, as you just know from the years of experience. You you take that and then you still try to work with But when you get I felt it, and the observation is like, right on, now you've gotten something, You've gotten somewhere, and now this guy's really making some progress at that point. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes I get most excited about a miss they might have over and over and we're trying to figure it out, and then finally they kind of leave one out to the right or whatever it might be, and there like, oh, I felt that, Like I felt what we're talking about, and it's like boom now now now we're onto it. Lest thing for me, brother, this is kind of literally out of left field. You're a left handed golfer. Obviously most of the people you work with are going to be right handed. Is that an advantage, mirror image disadvantage or no factor at all. It's probably close to no factor at all. I'd say, if anything, it's an advantage. I kind of like standing in front and doing the mirror image thing. Especially a short game. It's kind of nice just to you know, left handed right handed, you're kind of there's five balls on the ground and you can kind of face each other versus when I when I'm teaching another lefty right it's a little a little more awkward. Um, but I'd say it doesn't really matter. But I'm definitely more used to right handers now, you know, So if you're talking about you know, I should probably say lead on and more instead of you know, left arm. I catched myself sometimes with a lefty. If if we're getting a lead arm field, I might say like left arm them. I oh sorry, I meant you know, even though I'm lefty, I'm just so used to write is now. Yeah, I think the mirror image things works out pretty well. Cool. Well, we really enjoyed this, bread. I gotta tell you, I learned so much listening to you. Um My biggest takeaway probably is that the next time I played golf with Joe, He's gonna have to give me more strokes. I hope, so yeah, I hope, I hope so too. Thanks again for joining us. It's been blast yeah, a blastom big fan of both of you, so thank you very much and keep up the good work. Brett. We'll see you when I get back out there again. Thank you for a couple of days ago. My best to all the boys there. And uh one of the best kept secrets in the West Coast in the city of Long Beaches, Virginia country Club. It's a tilling half designed course. It's absolutely gorgeous and I love I love hitting out there. So see you back. They want to get back in town. Absolutely looking forward to it. Thanks buddy, be Well. Brett. All right, thanks guys. Well, that was a really interesting dive into let's faces. More than golf about teaching, right, I just I can't get enough of that. Especially you're talking about someone who's worked with some of the better golfers in the world, right, I mean, and you get out there to hang with them. He's a younger fella, full of energy. He does keep things very simple, very positive, although very uh straightforward. It was a couple of times you had to tell me I stunk the other day, which was absolutely accurate, and I love that. I love to be told, um, exactly what somebody as an instructor. As a pupil, I need to know exactly what the instructor is seeing, and he's very good at that. So I want to get back out there and see him again. Like I said to Virginia Country Club, wow, um, it's a tilling half designed very similar to my place in Pennsylvania, The Valley Country Club another tilling half course in Sugarlow, Pennsylvania. So there are some similarities between the two places, which really is also a big draw for me too. Honesty without compassion is cruelty. I think I've heard that before. Yeah, exactly, But just good, don't worry about me, just just get me right between the eyeballs. I could handle it. Hey, we didn't even mention. Yeah, if you're into golf fantasy leagues on the LPG eight tour, LILYA. Voo he's worked with. She was a rookie in twenty nineteen and has such a hard time. She only made one cut ninth starts. She thought about quitting the game of golf, and now she has really come on and she's a name to look forward to in three He's very proud of that. He was. We were talking about it the other day. I think she's like thirty seven thirty eight now in the world. Um had a tough start coming out of college. I believe I was missing cuts, wasn't playing well. Then all of a sudden, Um, I did a gig last night for Brandon guy are on mental skills in baseball. I guess you just Um started to believe that she'd belong there, and she was able to breathe in the moment, and she started to find her confidence again. And now she's definitely on the uptake, and he really, uh, he's very strong on her right now and regarding where she's at and where she's gonna end up in a in a very near future. Yeah, I got a kick out of all the comparisons and and parallels between golf and baseball. As you know, Joe, when we talked about this, A lot of of technologies have come out of the golf world and into the baseball world. But doesn't it still come down to the power of the teacher. Of course? Um, I mean, of course that the overwriting talent is always going to be number one, But a really good teacher is definitely going to extract the most out of you. And um, I could again, I could talk about myself on a personal level. You whenever you are being instructed, it's got to be simple, it's got to be concise, it's gotta make sense. It's got to be something I could hold onto and not have to overthink. It cannot overburden my mind. Uh, those guys are the best teachers. And we talked about visualization. I mean, it's not just about mechanics. Everybody wants mechanics. Physical mechanics are the easiest part of any sport to teach. The mental mechanics are the most difficult. Those are the ones that require redundancy and the ones that are gonna wear you out. But the ones that are going to make the difference. So uh, as a really good instructor, you have to be good, be both good physically and mentally regarding how you're going to teach mechanics of the game. And for me, the overwriting factor the part that really makes you an excellent instructor. Instructors to be able to teach the mental mechanics. Also, well, hey, we've got an upcoming exciting event you should know about. It's the Savannah Book Festival. Joe and I will be at the Savannah Book Festival to make our presentation on the Book of Joe. You're more than welcome to join. It's a huge weekend in Savannah. Many different authors will be there talking about their books, doing readings, taking questions. It's a great place to listen to not just us, but many other authors. So check it out Saturday, February eighteenth, in Savannah, Georgia. Looking forward to that, Joe, the same here, Tommy. It's going to be quite an experience for me. This is something you're kind of used to. This is uh, fish out of water for me, but I'm looking forward to it. It's a great place to get your book signed. We will be signing books at the event, So put that on your calendar. A couple of good golf courses nearby, from what I understand, so it'd be a good a good couple of days. I almost feel like, you know, when you have that really good around you're walking off that eighteenth grain. Man, that's that's such a good feeling. That's the way I feel right now. So on our way off the green, you've got something to take us out here. I think it applies to UM a bit. I follow different people on Twitter. I fall Hemingway stuff and I'm Jack hero Act. I picked them up the other day and this is like tis fits into everything, and it fits into an overarching concept of doing simple better. But he wrote, one day I will find the right words and they will be simple. Jack Heiro wat wow. I mean we all want complicated, convoluted answers. We're not even realizing we can't hold on to that. When you're competing with things get quick, with things get tough, you need simplicity to deal with and you need that one nugget back here that that that helps or aid you in that very hot moment. So one day I will find the right words and they will be simple. Mr Kiroac beautiful and beautiful that is that sounds like the backbone of teaching. There you go, man, well said, See you next time. Joe, I'm straight. Thanks, brother, I shall h. The Book of Joe podcast is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.