The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of My Heart Radio. Welcome back to the latest episode of the Book of Joe Podcast. Of course, it is based on our book, The Book of Joe. This is Tom Verducci joined by Joe Madden. Joe, how you doing. I'm doing well, brother, Good morning, How you doing? I am doing well. It's Thanksgiving week and man, we have a special guest today and it's a special episode. We are going to be joined by Max Weinberg, of course, longtime drummer with Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band, and Joe. I know you're looking forward to this for many reasons, but especially because it's not just about the band and drumming. Yeah, we wanted to really try to highlight blue guys outside of the baseball industry too. We talked about it the other day and I thought Max would be the perfect fit. Beyond it, You're gonna hear all about it very shortly. But I've been as such as Springsteen and since the seventies, I think you have also. But anyway, I have to get an opportunity to speak with Max about the similarities the relationships that you build within a rock and roll band and what it feels like in a major league clubhouse or dug out, the highly charged athletes, these highly charged musicians, and how they cope with it, and uh, getting into the glue component of it, how do when when things go awry, how does how does it come back together? And how do you interact in regarding the egos subjectgating of eagles and moving it on to something more important as a group or as a team. Looking forward to all that with Max, because again, this has been been my favorite band since the mid seventies. Ditto for me as well. And of course if you've read the book or will read the book and have been listening to this podcast, you know one of our favorite intersections is the intersection of baseball, rock and roll and leadership, and mighty Max Weinberg is right at that intersection. This is gonna be fascinating, folks. Stuff. I'm not gonna tell you exactly what's coming up, but you're going to year about Paul McCartney ringo star and a baseball scouting report on the baseball skills of Bruce Springsteen. Yeah, you're gonna stick around for this deep Back in a minute, Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast, and we are thrilled to be joined by our special guest today, Mighty Max Weinberg. Of course you know him as the drummer in the East Street Band, but I know him as a Jersey guy. So Max, welcome. It's always good to have a Jersey guy on here. And people talk about the cradle of civilization between the Tigris and Euphrates. I think it's between the Hudson and Delaware. So thanks for coming on. And by the way, congratulations being inducted into the New Jersey Hall of Fame. That's big time. Well, thank you, Tom. Good morning, Joe. Tom. Yeah, you know, it was quite a moving experience to be inducted into the New Jersey Hall of Fame. As they say, when you leave Philadelphia or New York City, you know you're in Jersey because you can see the air you're breathing. It's an old Jersey joke, it's not quite true anymore. But when you look at the inductees through the years, I'm delighted to be in the company of these amazing individuals. It was quite a moving ceremony. And Joe, our mutual friend Mark Stein of Chicago, was able to my great surprise to have Ringo star and then Paul McCartney show up to say a few nice words, and that was, you know, quite an unbelievable experience. My son Jay, who's a very renowned drummer, uh, inducted me, so it was kind of a family affair. And then to have Paul McCartney play the drums. He was actually playing the drums, I believe it was in his home studio in London. Uh and then stopped and said a few words. If that was something I would have never in my wildest imagination dreamed possible. But I was very delighted to be the recipient of those words. Congratulations on all that, Max. And but also I thought that Hazelton, Pennsylvania might have been the cradle of civilization Tom. I didn't realize that happened between the Hudson and Delaware. But yeah, Max that congratulations on all of that. It is really um, like you said, as a kid, growing up, to to arrive at that particular juncture again, New Jersey Pennsylvania were neighbors. I kind of understanding, get that that whole process of growing up and what it's like in almost these surrealistic moments that occur as you professionally moved down the road. So we'll congrats on that. I think it's outstanding. We all do well. Thank you, Joe, Max. One of the reasons we really were just thrilled to have you on here. We've been talking about glue guys as it relates to baseball, talking about guys on a baseball team that really are kind of the mortar of this spirit, de core of a team. You know, maybe it's not the best player, but there's usually somebody and Joe knows this as a manager, if you're lucky you have more than one the guys you can bring the whole group together, diverse backgrounds and be that one guy who can be the bridge to teammates. And we thought about you when it came to a glue guy in a band. Why don't you talk about your role in the band and whether you thought of yourself as a glue guy. Well, it's an interesting term because that's exactly what it is, whether you're playing. For example, I had a good friend in high school. It was a great catcher, and you know, the catcher drops the ball, chaos breaks out and hockey if the goalie let's just shot, go by the same thing in drums in a band, in a combo, whether it's a large orchestra or even histor rock band, you are the last line of defense. And the drummers that I admired and the drummers that I believe have become successful, embraced that sort of philosophy that um, you can't let anything get by you if you you know, if you make a mistake, it can sound like you're dropping the kitchen sink. Everybody makes mistakes, but it's how quickly you recover and cover yourself, and that comes with maturity. I've been playing drums. I'll be seventy two and a couple of months. I've been playing drums since I was five years old, so I've made my mistakes, made many of my mistakes in public, and to rebound and just keep moving, keep moving. That's the most important thing. Uh. You also realize that you are as you say, the glue and it's not just your position as the drummer. Drummers tend to be the in a lot of ways, the coalescing factor in bands. For some reason, I'm not quite sure. I had a drum teacher, very illustrious drummer named Bernard pretty Pretty who said the best drummers are helping drummers helping that was the key word. And I met him when I was nineteen. I studied with him, and studying with Bernard Purdy, the famous soul, rhythm and blues drummer was it wasn't so much out of a book, It was going to sessions. It was developing the right winning attitude. And I believe my longevity as a musician has been because I embraced that sort of approach. Uh. I can play a drum solo and needed, but drummers never get hired to do a drum solo, unless, of course, your buddy rich uh. And I'm not and never purported to be. But you, uh, you want to be a helping drummer. You want to help your bandmates. You are as a drummer sort of the Someone once referred to drummers as the molding that goes below and above the sheet rock. You know, you smooth over the rough edges. So we're using in sports and in music lots of metaphors to kind of describe the indescribable. You know it when you see it. You know it in the locker room or the dressing room. I'm always the guy that come in every day, and you know, the first thing I say is here's one for you, and I'll have heard a joke and I'll repeat it. So it's creating an atmosphere of uh conviviality. UM. And I take that role seriously because it extends to my drumming. My job is to make the other guys look good, and if I do that, then I look good. Awesome. I just ask us the question regarding all that of of any kind of alluded to it. There's gonna mistakes are gonna occur, Like during a performance, things might go awry. And when things may go awry, of course, there might be a little bit of a flare up among the group. For me, my glue guy, the leader in the clubhouse normally with independent of myself, maybe go reach whomever there may have been a dispute with among the group. Again, I'm talking probably about the band members now I'm talking about the players. Are the coaching staff regarding that when you when you when you run into a situation like that where things aren't smooth and and possibly because somebody's just gone a little bit rogue on you, guys, UM, is there is that Does that actually happen within a group like you? Would that be your responsibility or somebody else within the band to walk up to somebody else I'm saying, independent of the manager, independent of Bruce, whatever does that? Does that play as that's a logical within your group? Well, of course, and it depends on the group. For example, if you are the titular leader of the band. For example, when I was on television leading my seven piece group on the late night programs, the Maximum Brook seven, so that responsibility would fall to me. Um if you're working of course, we're working in smaller ensembles, and I think the hope is that you don't let it get out of hand. And uh, you know, there's a there's a once you've been playing for a long time playing music, whatever happens on stage, it's all, Uh, it's all a part of the show. And what I mean by that is if you if you let it collapse. I mean we've had we've had things on stage with Bruce and the Eastreet Band where we've literally had to stop and start again. Not very often. Our percentage of of hits it's pretty good. And I don't mean hit records but you know, connecting it's pretty good. But you, uh, it's entertainment. It's all entertainment, and if you don't obsess about that, which can uh stop you in your tracks. I mean at the age of seventy two, and when you've been doing something as long as we have, not just collectively but individually. I still play with several other groups of my own when when I'm not working with Bruce in the Eastreet Band, you do hope you gain a bit of wisdom. It's more difficult when you're in your twenties or early thirties. You haven't had experience, and I would imagine that particularly if you've been an outstanding athlete in your school days. Um that the uh, the maturity it takes two take it all and stride um because everybody makes mistakes, everybody forgets things, every there's broken plays, there's strategies that aren't that aren't fulfilled, game plans that perhaps may not be. You sort of have to shrug it off, address it. Um. We have a fortunate uh uh say organizational structure within the eas Street Band. Whereas Bruce has said many times, and it's absolutely true, it's a benevolent dictatorship, and that takes a lot of the guesswork out of it been in democratic bands obviously. The the prime example of a democratic band would be, say the Beatles, where you had four distinct individual personalities and desires and abilities and everyone had to say it takes a lot of the guesswork out when you don't have any decision making ability in that context, and you may be a leader of a band in your own right. One of the beautiful things about the eas Street Band is that everybody in the Street Band is a leader in their own right and does their own thing, and when we come together, we take that experience in service of advancing Bruce's musical agenda. And you know, the hardest thing to get in any band is a great lead singer. The second hardest thing is to have great songs if you're if you're playing original music. In the Easteret Band, We're lucky we got both and it's a phenomenal platform. When I do my own thing and I'm the leader. As I've grown and I've gotten more mature, you know, I've recognized that there are ways to get performances out of your uh players that don't involve an emotional reaction. You want to be able to inspire. I believe now at my age, you want to be able to inspire the best performances. And having come up in an era where UM, there's always a lot of chaos and democratic bands, someone's got to take control and U these leaders naturally emerge or sometimes they are there by design, as we are in the Eastreet band and UM. But some say I've mellowed. I certainly have not mellowed when I'm sitting behind the drums, because when I'm sitting behind the drums, where where I go to is I have the technical ability that I've developed over the last sixty something years, and I have the emotional stability to be able to handle any situation. And that just takes longevity. And you know, there's a reason why those of us who play music, or my sports friends who who enjoy UH, there's there's there's that window of opportunity where you're performing at peak experience. It's playing music, it's playing baseball, it's playing football. So whenever a few jobs are referred to as playing, you know it's usually working. And while it is hard, and nobody UH should diminish the difficulty it is to get into an elite level at whatever endeavor you're with which you're involved, it is playing at the end of the day. And the idea is if you can stay relaxed, if you can come at it from a hey, I'm enjoying this. It's tough. This maybe the hundred and twenty game I've played in a row, or the hundred concert I've done in a year. You take each one individually, and I say, I'm fortunate because I've gotten to the point where not only take each show individually, I take each song. Some cases, each section of the song. Time slows down, and we've all had the experience, whether it's hitting a baseball, hitting that sweet spot. And when I was in my early days of my career, I lot I read a lot of sports training books that addressed the sort of zen of whatever you're doing. It was a great book called The Zen of Motorcycle Maintenance, and obviously the the the the intent was to to get you to to to focus on making time almost stand still. Another book that I found help was called The Inner Game of Tennis. And when I was in my twenties, I was searching for that sense of relaxation in a very highly charged very very quick, and a situation where the stakes were high. You know, people are paying a lot of money, good money, to not just get admission to an event, but to get the best out of that event. So it's incumbent upon the participants in that event on the on the active playing field, whether it's a stage, a diamond of football grid, to give the customer more than their money's worth. And that's something I learned from Bruce Springsteen. And you don't leave it on the stage or the field every single second. And uh, these are life lessons that you know. I consider myself so fortunate because I've been able to do something I started when I was five years old and have continued for the next sixty seven years and dig into it and get better. One of the things I had to learn, In fact, I went to a baseball coach, Joe, and I don't know if we've ever about this, but in my early career with the street band, I used to grip the sticks very tightly, afraid of dropping them. And I spoke to a lot of people about it. And I was a young drummer. Actually what I was an experienced drummer, but I was experienced enough to get in the street band. The question was could I become good enough to stay in the street band. This was in the seventies, and Uh, I had to relearn a lot of my techniques. You I could liken it to being in a batting slump. So I went out and I got a drum coach, a drum teacher, a coach of guru. And one of the problems was the inner anxiety I was feeling of of the pressure was translating down my arms into my hands and fingers and grabbing the sticks really hard. So this teacher was an amateur baseball player, and he and he and he made the analogy. You know, when you when you're when you're hitting a ball, when you're holding a golf club, a racket, anything where you're transmitting the force. Uh. The idea, and he was a very experienced, world renowned drummer. The idea is the only time you're actually gripping lightly the drumstick, the bat after all ideal in the same wood that baseball players do. The only time you're really gripping lightly was when you're addressing the drum or the ball. So let's let's work on adjusting your grip, which is exactly what we did. And at the age of I guess I was about twenty nine, I had to completely relearn how to hold the sticks, how to address the drum from maximum speed and power without a lot of history onics, and I would suppose uh not. You know, I remember trying out for Little League I think four years in a row and not making it, and finally my parents went and said, give the kid a break, and you know, put them on a team. I kept trying. Yeah, you know, I always said I never got my letter in sports, but I do have quite a few platinum and gold records, so uh, you know, I sort of uh did the sports thing in my own way. But in studying with this teacher um and he had a friend who was a base a college baseball coach, and we went to him and he he said, well, here are the different ways you can hold and swing a bat, and if you're grit, if you have a life a death grip on that, Matt, there's no way you're ever going to be able to hit the balls far and as accurately as you want. It made the analogy to the drumstick. And there's a method that I was taught that was developed in the nineteen twenties by a drummer, drum teacher, drum instructor who was with the New York of uh Symphony Orchestra, that Philharmonic, and he developed this technique and I embraced it. It wasn't easy to learn, but ever since the age of about thirty thirty one, I've been able to incorporated into my drumming, which made me more accurate, which made me more dynamic, and which enabled me to have the longevity that I currently enjoy. A fascinating stuff, Max, and it reminds me of Joe Torre saying at the plate, be intense but without being tense. And you use the phrase there that I want to explore it a minute here, benevolent dictatorship. I love that phrase in the framework of team chemistry. I want to explore that a little bit more. Right after we take a quick break, be right back with the mighty Max Weinberg. Welcome back to the Book of Joe podcast. We're speaking with Max Weinberg. And Max I brought up the idea of team chemistry, and obviously in the Eastreet Band, it's the epitome of what a baseball team would look for. It's held together all these years. I want to go back to the origin story for you. I heard a story about you interviewing for the drummer position with the band. Um. Back in those days, guys used to like to say they were from New York City in the music business. It just sounded like it had more cash. And you dropped a jersey on Bruce kind of opened the door. I'm wondering about meeting Bruce and and and being interviewed for that position, and when you knew that chemistry was taking root, well, of course, uh you the chemistry it was really quite amazing. Literally happened within the first twenty seconds of of playing. And that happened within the first three minutes of meeting Bruce. And the East Free Band members who were there, which were Clarence Clemens and Dan Federici are are late and and and deeply loved associates and friends, and Gary Tallant are bass player, um who's still with us. And there were a couple of things I noticed, Um, the leadership, it wasn't articulated. Of course, it was Bruce Springsteen and the Easterly Band, So obviously there's Bruce standing in front of me. But What was what was really amazing to me at the age of twenty three when I auditioned was not just the power of conviction and intensity and energy coming from Bruce, but the way that the other three guys who were there were so focused on where that energy and direction was coming from. And it wasn't a real obvious direction. You had to feel it. And I had never experienced that kind of um concentration on the point man and bands, you know, you'll always hear uh, you know, the bass player locking in with the drummer, etcetera. Uh, the Easter band isn't organized like that. We're like a flying wedge if you can imagine trees in the forest that are sort of spread out organically and it thought, and then there are bands that are organized like that. Ours is a flying wedge with Bruce is the point and our musical agenda, and it went beyond musical agenda, particularly in the early days, where you know, we are where we're building the thing, and you never knew, you know, really when when it could end, and not for anything that we were doing, but just the forces of the music business in the seventies and eighties, particularly in the seventies, you sort of you you you, you kept we all kept pushing in the same direction. And when you do that and you, uh, you subsume your own personal ego, which I must say, that's one of our strengths is that, um, when we're we're on stage and even off stage, you you subsume your your ego, your own personal agenda for the good of the group. And that involves a lot of different things as it does on sports teams. On stage, um, you know you you, we do a lot of Bruce does a lot of audibles. He'll change on any given night to fifteen songs. In fact, if you ever looked at the collection of set lists that Bruce's assistant, his technical assistant, Kevin Bull, keeps, the original set list is just you know, list of thirty songs. What he has kept all of these The actually what we played looks like a tellustrator. You've got arrows and lines and where things were moved around. So you never know what's going to happen. You cannot let your guard down for a minute because that train will leave without you. I learned that very early on. And when you make that kind of mistake where you maybe your concentration lapses or your you're you're you know, focused on what you do. Focusing. Actually it's not easy, but it when you focus, it actually makes the job easier. Um. It takes that time element out of it. You don't get distracted. And of course when you're in the heat of of of a fast paced rock show, it's one thing, um, But to maintain your concentration, UH is absolutely the most important thing and one of the hardest things to learn. UM. You know, we've been fortunate in the Street band that we've had fifth almost fifty years together to develop these protocols and modalities of working. Most bands don't last that long. That's why I say democratic bands don't work. Been volent dictatorships ah, and they work, and sometimes the accent is on benevolent, sometimes the act is on dictatorship. But you have to have that vision and then you have to have your so to speak, soldiers advancing your vision and UM, a lot of trust, a lot of faith and uh, and then you go out and you lay it all out there. Max, let me ask you a question. Ask you a question, um, in order to I mean, you're talking about a high level of flexibility regarding what you guys do the fact that calling audibles. I love that. Um, you know you see that in football, but obviously even in a baseball situation, you're always calling audibles within the dug out. A lot of the decisions nobody will ever no decision that's really been made within the dug out. Subtleties kind of a subtle movements, uh, eye contact when you look at the shortstop David Eckstein during the World Series in two thousand and too. Subtlety subtleties. But got to really know your stuff among the group. Everybody's got to be on the same page, like you're suggesting, um, and and it's paramount to be able to remain flexible and nimble and and to be able to accept an audible when it's called. And just curiously, I know what it takes on a baseball level in spring trainings and during the season regarding work, I'm just curious, I mean, because it's what you do as a drummer. Man. It's like I can't even imagine with your arms in your hands and fingers feel like but the practice involvement with that before we let you go on to tour, how much how much you guys actually have to get together in practice and then even on a daily basis, What does it take before a concert? Is it? Is it more conversational, is it physical? How do you guys get to this level? Well, that's a great question, Joe, and it's very very similar as sports. Um the most important thing, particularly as you age, is to not stop doing it. And you know all of your engagements are not in stadiums or arenas. I keep myself going by having three or four different style of music bands that I play with. It could be a five piece be bop quintet. I also have a twenty three piece society orchestra where I lead it and they call me Ricky Ricardo because I'm up in front. I also have, and I think you've seen my my jukebox band where we play audience requests. So that's the most warm thing is don't stop doing what you're doing. It's it's very very difficult to get it back. Along with that is um uh, you know the scale. I don't play any different in a small rock club with my jukebox as I do in well, to use that obvious example Wrigley Field, exactly the same. The other thing is to rehearse the way you're gonna play, no holding back that I learned from Bruce. Our rehearsals are as intense and as focused as our show because there's only one way to do it. And maybe it sounds like a cliche, there's only one way to do it. You do it as if you're two things, as if your life dependent on it. Certainly your livelihood depends on it, And you do it as if it's the last show or game you're gonna play. And I'll tell you what, when you embrace that mental philosophy, it makes it easier. Not that it's easy. You know, the way I played drums is pretty simple, but it's not easy, and it's taken me a lifetime to learn how to refine it. And um, I would imagine that a sports career has to be uh condensed into less years generally speaking. Um, So you've got to learn those lessons earlier. And when you're in your twenties or early thirties, it's you know, they say your brain is still growing in your twenties. Um In, Mike, So, I'm not so sure it was. You know, I had a lot of learning to do. I was a talented amateur that suddenly got thrust into a very high profile, uh pressurized situation, and fortunately I did rise to the occasion. But um, you know, you don't stop. I mean, I have a friend I'm glappy to say, Doc Severnson, who when I got the Tonight Show as a band leader, the best moment of my ton Night Show career was seeing my name in the same sentence as Doc Severanson, who was of course a long time Johnny Carson Tonight Show band leader, and Doc who's now in his mid nineties, still plays every single day. I spoke to him. He called me on my birth my last birthday, which was last April, and we talked about that he said, he said, kid, every day I still try to hit that high note. And it's that sort of a metaphor for life, I think, And you do. You try to hit the high note every time. You owe it to yourself, you owe it to the people who are coming to see you do what you do. And uh, you know, it takes a little while to embrace that. I guess it did in my case. And but fortunately I've had the platform, both television and particularly with Bruce and the Eastreet Band, to be able to develop You're just here you're hitting a bunch of different chapters in her book. You're talking about naming high, doing simple, better, embracing the target. You're talking about all the different things that we cover in the book of Joe. I love all that stuff. To hear that, Doc Sefferson, I was a big ben as a kid grown. I actually had a couple of albums by Doc Sefferson back in the day. But all everything you're talking about so closely relates to what we do and how we do it. And that was the whole point to try to get somebody of your statue on her outside of the baseball industry, to relate to the baseball industry and just try to validate what we do here compared to what you do there. Uh. And again, the practice component of this thing and how you go over your stuff constantly, the adjustments you have to make. Again, you could you could be talking about you could be in our clubhouse during the spring training meeting and talking about the exactly the same ideas and thoughts. I think it's outstanding and it's great to hear that, And Joe I got just a piggyback on that. I loved hearing Max talk about setting the tone of the day. Have you heard the one about? And it brought me back to you with the Tampa Bay Rays starting in spring training with the joke of the day, right, gathering the guys together and just lightening the move. Yeah, I have a I have a guy by name of Tim Bust that we utilize. I was with the Angels and with the Cubs Bussies like he's he's another glue guy. This is a glue guy that nobody knows or um probably most have never heard about. But this guy, to me, if I get another job as a manager, someday, he'd be one of my first hires. I would. This is this is something that's unique, has a skill skill set is unique in regards to bringing people to together. Uh, just everything you've just been talking about Max, And that's what he does. He brings people together. I does it with comedy. Um, he does it with the emotion and empathy. I mean, everybody's just wants to be around Bussy And again that's such a big part of it. And with the Rays, the joke of the day, the word of the day in spring trainings, all that anything small. I was always trying to educate, make guys think make them try to reach another level internally mentally, and and when you have a glue guy to be able to spearhead that it really actually it makes your job somewhat easier. Well, that's the key is that you know you're there, whatever position you're playing, at the end of the day, you're there to inspire the people with whom you're doing it. And um, it's not always necessarily the the you know, the stars or the guys up front. It's to be the you know, the guy that the fans don't even know that much. But you need that kind of thing because you know, it's a stressful when you're at that level of you know I called stadiums. If you're playing in a baseball stadium, a football stadium, a soccer stadium, a rock and roll arena, stadium, it's you're at you're at the top of your game. I see it in my son, who's the same thing. You know, who spent ten years playing goalie in hockey, very very talented goalie who embraced the sport and his thing was as a kid, one of his motivations was he loved being the last line of defense and that that he was able to withstand the pressure. So when he made the transition. When he was a he was recruited by a high school and he was a great hockey player. My son and lived it absolutely lived at my Son Jay. When he was fifteen, he decided he wanted to become a musician, and he was recruited by a local high school as a goalie, and he told the team in his second year that he was going to leave the world of hockey for the world of music. And he taught himself how to play the drums. I had nothing to do with it other than once he got into it, telling him not to grip the sticks tightly and make the same kind of mistakes with tendonitis and uh carpal trum tunnel syndrome that I had. I mean, I've had so many performance related surgeries. I've lost count whether it's my back, I had my shoulder rebuilt, you know, Uh it's uh. I've got the scars to prove the sixty years I've been playing. But he became an elite drummer. He's considered now the my Son Jay with his band slipknot Um, the band that he's in, Slip not He's considered the top of his field, and I see the work that went into it constant, you know, coming home from school in the afternoon, doing his homework and then playing until ten o'clock at night by himself, teaching himself how to play the drums, by playing to records very organically because he loved it. So anything we start, whether it's baseball, football's any sport, music, the things that turn us on as a kid, you know, when you're in Little league, you know, if you're in pop Warner, that feeling. If you can maintain that as you age in this endeavor, you can't go wrong because no matter what else goes on during the day with me, even when I'm playing a Bruce in the EA Street Band show and it's serious business up there. We take our fund very very seriously. Yeah, you hit on another one of our great things, which is Joe likes to say, see it with first time eyes, no matter how long you've been doing it, right, that joy that you only get when you first really discover something. If you're able to maintain that, and it sounds like all these years you have Max, it's a gift. Well, it's when you sit on the drum. Whatever else went out during the day when you sit on the drum, when I sit on the drums, A, it's a privilege. B. I'm thankful every day that at my advanced stage, I'm able to rock and get people up out of their seats. That's important for me to lay down that beat. I'm not the most uh, you know, flashy drummer, but I'm meeting potatoes and at the end of the day, that's what worked for me. But when I'm sitting at the drums, I'm fourteen years old again, and I'm playing at the eighth grade dance. And it could be you know, a stadium, it could be Madison Square Garden, it could be any place. I'm fourteen years old. There's a saying that musicians get paid for the twenty two hours a day that they're not on stage, and they do the show for free. That is awesome. I love that. I do love I love that. I wanted to bring this back a little bit to the intersection of baseball and rock and roll. Um. I think you made it clear you did not win a varsity letter in baseball, but it seems like there's a connection with the band in the sport. I think about, of course, Glory Days lyrics in the video going back then. I'm pretty sure Bruce was at the World Series in Philadelphia this year. He was so is that it's baseball part of his slash bands fabric. Well, Bruce is one of the most devoted baseball fans I've ever met. And uh, it's his by far, his favorite sport. He's very involved in it. He was a very very good baseball player in nine seventies seven when he was going through his tumultuous legal wrangling and we were only able to play sort of third level markets. We had a lot of time off. So he and Steve van Zand started a baseball team and they all did the East Street Kings and we got satin jackets, we had uniforms, and we played other bands on days off. And Bruce was a shortstop, had a fantastic arm, still does, I'm sure, but and he was a great batter. Um. He still loves baseball. One of his I can tell you, and I don't think he'd mind me saying. One of his prize possessions is a uh personalized autograph from Mickey Mantle. And you know, growing up in New Jersey, Uh, you know, the Yankees legend loomed large in our background. And uh my father was also a great baseball fan. Was an All State pitcher in the thirties for Central High School in Philadelphia. He went on to play for the University of Pennsylvania. One of my prize possessions is a picture of him as an eighteen year old pitching, and he was a hell of a pitcher. Um, you know, apparently, um. I can tell you one short story about I once asked my father when I was a kid, Gee, Dad, I remember seeing the Luke Garret Story the movie and I said, Jeverosy, Luke Garret or Bruth play And he said to me, son, Luke Garrett, babe Ruth. I saw Ty Cobb. He was of that you know generation when he was a kid. So that was pretty impressive. Is there anywhere of those? Is there any more of those satin jackets left around? I left that one of those satin jackets. I mean, there's any lying around and whatever it costs, man, I would love to to wear that around. That would be my I say everything mine is on tour with the Grammy Museum. My you know, had Mighty Max on the breast front and the E Street kings on the back. But you know, we used to practice. One thing I noticed about Bruce is playing baseball as a shortstop, was when when he caught a ground there, for example, before he threw it to first base, give you an example, there was a moment and this is a perfect metaphor for what he does on stage. It's always thinking ahead. There was a perfect just a split second pause before he released the ball and then he had a rocket of a throw and uh, this was before he balked up and was working out and but but he didn't catch the ball and then throw it. There was always this set up where he got his arm into position and it was only a millisecond, but he was so accurate that, uh, you know something I noticed, and um, I've got a great picture of him, you know, hitting a home run to still that I took at the moment of impact. But we were very serious about it. And you know, he tells stories about his his his coming up in little league and uh, you know, he's had lots of friends who were in sports, particularly baseball. And I was, you know, I remember doing I was doing one of my one man show performances near where we lived at the time. In Jersey invited him down. He was gonna come. Turned out its been Game five of this particular year's World Series and just couldn't drag himself away from the TV to to not watch the World Series. So you know, baseball has loomed, you know, like the song Glory Days. And he took pitching lessons. Uh, so he would do it. He wasn't a picture. He took it, so he would do it somewhat corrected, corrected correctly in that in that video. Beautiful. Yeah, that's great stuff. Max. We can't thank you enough for this. This has been such a thrill for us to listen to your stories and especially your insight because, as Joe mentioned, I think a lot of the themes you hit on here in terms of leadership, connectivity with other human beings, joyfulness, and what you do, it's a part of our book, the Book of Joe. So I can't thank you enough. Your time is I'm sure precious, and again congratulations on induction and Shrineman into the New Jersey Hall of Fame. Well, thank you guys. Listen. Uh, it's always a pleasure to talk to Joe and time yourself. What can I say? I mean, I love talking about these issues because if there's a way that I can in part any knowledge to a younger performer. And I use that in the broadest sense of an athlete, because I I love watching athletes and when you watch, you know the people who, in my view performed like their musicians. So it's a wondrous thing if I can impart any uh, sort of tips that make it It's never gonna be easy, but it can enable you to perhaps avoid some of the pitfalls. You know, the greatest lessons I've ever learned have been from the absolute loot worst mistakes I've ever made, and on the drums and in and in life. Um, and you know, you hope to pass that knowledge along. And I do meet younger people, particularly musicians, who you know, any any tips you know, Uh, it's basically keep your head down, look sharp, act sharp, and keep your ears open, because that will give you the sort of tips to enable you to you know, the distance between and I'm sure it's like this in sports, particularly at the professional level, the distance between success and not being successful. And I don't mean failure, um, you know, striking out for example, is it can't even be quantified. You know, I have a friend of mine who became a very well known professional football player, and he once told me years ago, it had to be thirty years ago. The the the differ prints between high elite you know, Big ten college football and the speed of professional football. That was the biggest adjustment. And it was similar to that, and I related to that because it was sort of the same thing that went on with Bruce Knee Street band. Uh. You know, in some cases you're just you're just reacting, and it's everything you did for however many years, and experience in games, innings, at bats, it's everything you bring to that moment. And if you're lucky enough to have any longevity in a career and not flame out, whether it's music or sports or any other endeavor, you're gonna learn from everything you did and you're gonna bring it to that at bat. You're gonna bring it to kicking. Uh, you know, the after I always look at these after points, situations, after goal, you know, the point after situations, and the immense pressure that's on these guys, and it's what they do. You know, I've had I have a friend who's, uh, one of the retired is one of the most senior NASA astronauts on the Space Shuttle, and he also plays drums, and we always talk about the similarities and the differences, and um, you know, and there are significant differences. But his big question to me is how can you How can you go in front of fifty people and play the drums? And I said, well, I have two people to please, the guy in front of me and then me, And I said, how can you sit on top of seven and a half million pounds of explosive and your heart rate doesn't move a bit? He goes, well, that I can do, but I could never play the drums in front of a thousand people. So, you know, different strokes for different folks. I guess it is you're speaking to our language. Man. That's right on the money. I really appreciate hearing all of that. Oh Joe, It's always a pleasure to talk to you, to see you. I hope to see you on our upcoming uh Bruce and Eastreet band tour. We're gonna be everywhere. We're gonna have a blasts, gonna be a rock show. And I'll tell you what I know. He and I speaking for myself, I can't wait we start rehearsals in three weeks. And you know, with the Eastreet Band, it's like slipping into a well worn baseball glove. We've been doing this for almost fifty years. So when the first count off of one, two, three, four happens, it's right there, beautiful brothers, well done man, Thank you Max. That's that's like I said, that's that's really dovetails it. It validates so much that we've been talking about. You just said in this last segment here really reflects a lot of my own personal baseball philosophies. So again, for the for our podcast, recomminated the Book of Joe. I think the folks that are listening to this will really Gardner gathered the the relationship between what you do as a professional musician and what we do as professional athletes or baseball players. Thank you well, my pleasure, Joe, Tom, thank you very much for having me on. Well, Joe, that was fascinating. I could listen to Max Weinberg all day and all night when he's not behind a drum set. That's how good that was. Yeah, And again, just from our perspective here, we wanted to glue guys and on these shows and here is a glue guy. And the really interesting kind of neat part about the whole thing is the validation what he talked about. He covered so many topics in the Book of Joe Uh there towards the end of different chapters, aiming high do simple better. He said it in other words, and he talked about embracing the target in other words. But nevertheless it was all there and of course just a brilliant way of putty things together. He's very he's very good with words. He's very good about his explanations, and his descriptions are outstanding. So I promised the folks, Uh, that was really a unique experience for me, and again being that that I'm tied so far back musically and how I grew up and what it means to listen to the music that him and a group have created, it's pretty special. Yeah, special for me too. Again, I grew up with the soundtrack of my youth being the band, the Easter Eat Band, and actually went to high school just a few miles away from where Max went to high school. So a lot of connections and I can't wait for the upcoming tour, same with me, brother. Could I could conclude with one thought right here, Please do because I think it kind of like dovetails into this whole thing, and that's Jack Wilson is a guy that I really dig a lot of different closities had but and it kind of again devetails into what Max we just talked about. Control your own destiny or someone else will take charge. Love it, peace out, Thank you brother. 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