Hayes Carll is an award-winning singer-songwriter from Texas. We discuss how he performed virtually during the pandemic, as well as what it's like to be a touring musician singing his truth today and the tension between needing to have a presence online yet still focus on the work. Hayes also describes what it's like to pursue songwriting excellence as opposed to fame. This is the other side of the music industry, someone who has a presence in the landscape yet has to work for a living, who is known but is not famous enough to survive on recording income and sponsorships. Hayes is authentic, you'll enjoy listening to him.