The Bob Lefsetz PodcastHe's got a new autobiography, "Life's Too Short."
Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back Bob left Seth Podcast. My guest today is Darius Rutger, who has a new autobiography, Life's Too Short. Darius, how good a golfer? Are you?
Okay? I mean I can play, I get around. You know, I play a lot, so I should be okay. I'm like, I'm I'm like a five, so I'm okay. How often do you play a five days a week? So you play when you're on the road, you belong to a club? What's going on? I'm along to a lot of clubs, but uh, I do play a lot of the road. Is why I'm play on both of my golf because there's really nothing else to do all day. So I usually get up pretty early, player around the golf before working out, getting the rest of the day started.
And do you still take lessons at this point? How do you improve your game?
I do?
I do?
I still take lessons when, uh you know, when when things start to go a little south, I got I got a guy here, Dastviel that uh that helps me out.
So uh, I do definitely still take lessons. And what kind of clubs do you use?
I played p XG you know, I love them. I think they're the best clubs in the world. So, yeah, I love playing those those.
And is that because you have a relationship with the company or you how did you discover that brand?
Uh? I thought I played them with the first generation and I just thought they were really good. But I took a relationship with the company. But uh, I just thought they were really good. Every year they seem to get better. And and so I'll get a new set of clubs every every every now and then, and uh, you know, every time I get a new set, they're better.
So you played with a lot of pro golfers. What have you learned from them about the game?
Oh?
I learned that they play a different game than we do.
Oh, that's for sure, you know.
Uh.
And you know, the best thing about playing with the pros, you know, everybody I've getting to play with, is they're always so willing to help you with advice and you know, let you know little little intricacies of the game that you're doing wrong that you can help and you could improve on.
And uh.
And so I always enjoy when I get to play with professionals, even though really they don't play the same game we play.
It should have a different name.
Well, I know, you know, they work the ball, they do other things. But tell me how the game is different for the professionals.
I mean everything, the sound of the sound of the ball coming off the club.
You know.
The thing that I that I'm so envious of when it comes to professional golfers is their consistency. I mean, they just hit the ball the same way almost every time, and they and and you know, it's just that's that's the worst part.
Of my game.
I'm not consistent enough. I should be a better golfer. But uh but I just love love watching them play. I love watching him hit the ball. And they hit it so much further than we do. I mean, it's it's not even fair.
So why do you think they hit it further than the amateurs?
Because they know what they're doing. They know what they're doing, and we're we're also trying to figure it out. And it golf is one of those games.
I don't know.
When you get to that level, it's just they just know what to do. They know, you know how, like you say, work at the ball, left, right and all that stuff. They just know how to hit it. And even coming off the club, it sounds different than what we do. So they're just you know, they're just a different level.
And as far as people, what's the difference between athletes like golfers and musicians as.
Far as people, I mean, the one thing I would say with that is like, you know, people are people and they're you know, their personalities may be different, uh, you know, the way they see the world may be different, but but really, at the end of the day, you know, we're all just human And that's something I learned, you know, you know, with my success and I've learned hanging out with a lot of athletes that you know, at the end of the day, we all have problems, and we all have kids that we worry about, and we all you know, worry about our health, and we you know, at the end of the day, we're all just human beings.
But golf they scored differently than music. You know, there's par everybody plays in a tournament. What separates the winners from the losers? In your mind?
Oh, the golf is what separation winners from the losers. I think it's short game and punting because they could all hit it. You know, they all hit they all hit the green and they all are around the green, you know, and the guys that can get up and down or will make big putts, make long putts. I mean, those are the guys that win tournaments, and those are the guys that become legends.
You know.
You know, you think of all the greats and you could probably picture some putt that they made that that you know, that was just amazing, or some ship that they made that was just amazing.
And I think that's what really separates golfers, is a short game.
And then how about in terms of attitude.
Oh, I think that's got a lot to do with golf.
I think I think that the great players, the great players don't let bad shots get them down. And know you that they all have the attitude of you know, I got to hit the next shot. And I think that's that's something we're talking about golfer. I think that's something in life. The people who are really successful don't let the little thing, not the little things, or just don't let a setback get them down.
You know.
You know, it's like like if me and music, you know, if there's a setback, if you know, one single didn't do well, well, you know, we go to the next thing.
You know.
It's it's just I think really successful people have a way of not letting things get them down and realizing, you know, Okay, we got to move on to the next thing and or move on to the next shot and do that better.
And if all the courses you played, if you could just play one or two, what courses would they be?
Oh, if I could just play one or two Dustin National, for sure, you know, I just think that's every time I've been blessed to play there. It's just there's really nothing like it. It's just every time I and I've gotten to play quite a few times, and every time I go through that kid, I can't believe if I'm getting to play Augusta, I can't believe I'm on the grounds of Augusta National.
And probably the.
Other one, you know, either either Bulls Bay, which my local course, or Scottsdale National, which I think is is probably my favorite place to go play that I get to play a lot.
Okay, Augustin National where they play the Masters. For a long time, they kept black people out. So when you play there, can you feel that or what do you think about that?
Oh? No, I think They've come a long way with that, you know.
I mean, you know, in the sixties and seventies, you know, they kept black black even out you didn't complain to the tournament. You know. You think about you know, Lee Elder getting being the first black to play, and Augusta and all the stuff he had to put up with just to go play a golf tournament, you know, And I think I think Augusta's come a long way with that, you know, you know, I I look at it, and we can't just put it on Augusta.
It was the history of America. You know.
Black people were kept out of a lot of things just because of the color of our skin. And you know, you know, we just you try to overcome that. And you old people in the here, twenty twenty four year old people, you know, can get past that. Don't even get past that, just like it doesn't matter, you know. It's you know, like I said earlier, at the end of the day, we're all just human beings. And you hope people really realize that.
The fact that Kamala Harris is running and she's black, as a black man, how do you view that.
I think it's great, you know, I thought it was great when Obama became president. You know, I'll be honest with you. When Obama became president, I was shocked. I just never thought I would see that in my lifetime. I just really, you know, back sixteen years ago, however long it's been since it was when he was when he was first elected, I truly never thought I would see an African American president in my lifetime. And now to see an African American woman get the nomination from one of the major parties, I think it's amazing.
I think it's a I think it's great for the country.
Even though, just like everything else with the race is going to polarize a lot of us, and you know, separate is going to divide a lot of people.
But I think it's a great thing for the country.
And how have you seen race relations and opportunities change in your lifetime?
Oh goodness, you know, I think we've all seen it.
You know, Like we're sitting, you know, and I see there talking about you know, black folks not being able to play our stuff. I remember that, you know, you know, me coming into Country of Music and being told that that, you know, the audience would never accept an African American, you know, country starm you know, that was there were just places, you know, places we weren't supposed to go, where we couldn't go, or we were just kept out of, you know. And a lot of those doors and walls have been broken down, you know, and sometimes you know, we still see people try to put it back up, and that's sad, you know. But but I think most of America realizes that there's room for all of us everywhere.
And there's been a big push back against the EI recently, and certainly an affirmative action. What's your viewpoint on DEI an affirmative action.
I think, I know it's it's sad for me the pushes back on it, and to watch people act like it's a bad thing, that's the thing. That's the thing that really bothers me, is people acting like diversity, equity, and inclusion is a bad thing.
You know. Uh, you know. It's the funny thing about the EI.
You know, you mentioned the EI or affirmative action, and everybody thinks about African Americans, you know, but you're probably the people that have been most h I saw that the other the group that's been most that that had the most affected by the eis white women, you know, white women getting a chance to do things that they didn't get a chance to do. But and you know, I think, you know, inclusion and diversity is always good. You know. It's like I always say about country music, I'm glad to see country music starting to look more like America because you know that America is a belting pot of people, and so, you know, I think all industries and all things should be.
Okay, you're a star, you travel around the world. What do people in America, white people not understand about being a black person in America today?
Oh goodness, I think I don't.
I don't think a lot of people really realize, you know, how people try to keep how how much to people try to people try to kept out of different things.
You know.
That's why you have a formative action in de Ei. Yeah, it's because we were for so long we were kept out. And I think a lot of people don't really realize how hard you're how hard you have to work to to to get in at some industries, to douce some things, you know. I mean, I always said everything I've done in my career, I've realized I've had to work harder than everybody else, and I'd have to, you know, be a little bit better than everybody else to get a chance.
And I think a lot of people don't want to face that.
Now that you've had a lot of success in the country world, do you believe you still have to fight harder?
Well, yeah, I do. I believe that one hundred percent, you know, because I know I do. You know it's even today to get a single, you know, I gotta still work harder than everybody else. And I don't mind. You know, our work has never been something that I've I've showne away from I'm a bit afraid of. But but uh, you know, yeah, I think I'll always feel that way.
And just to be a little more specific, in what ways do you work harder on a single?
You know? You know, playing yeah, you know, having to play more radio shows, having to to you know, do a little but harder work. And you know, watch my finger, My singles move flower than other folks singles, even though you know it might be a better song. But uh, you know that that's just part of the deal. I'm not gonna sit there complained about it, you know, because it is what it is. I'm just gonna you know, I just I'll work because I don't mind working. But uh, yeah, you know, I don't think it's as easy for me as it is for some people.
And to what degree do you encounter racism in everyday life? Uh, it's not as bad as it used to be.
You know, there was a time when, you know, especially like when we were playing clubs back in the day, it was a time where you really did encounter it every day, you know. But it's still there, you know, so, I mean it will always be there. I don't I think in my lifetime it will always be there in America, which is sad, but uh, that's just one of those things that that comes with the territory, you know, when you when you do something that when you're in African American and you do something that you're not supposed to do, quote unquote, yeah, you got to deal with the consequences.
And sometimes that's the consequences.
And what happens if you're in an environment and someone makes a racist comment, what do you do?
You know, if it's somebody around me, you I'll address it. Well, I'll address it, you know. If it's you know, sometimes you just let it go. I mean, why why deal with ignorance. You know, there's nothing I want to say that's going to change that person's mind.
You know.
I like to change people's hearts, and you know, you can only do that when you're friends with somebody. Oh and you know you're you're you have a relationship with somebody.
But uh, you know, you just deal with now with athletes, people are always saying that black men who have success have a responsibility to lift others up.
Do you feel that in country music that you have an obligation or you want to lift other black men or women up in the world.
I mean, I don't know if I have an obligation, but I feel like something I want to do, you know, So every you know, every every African record, I'll cut your artists.
I mean I let them know. You know, you want to write with me, you want me any record, I'll.
Do anything I can't help you, you know, just just.
To give you a chance.
But uh, you know, I don't think anybody's obligated to do anything. You know, people do what they want to do and what they what's inside of them. But for me, I just feel like it's the right thing to do, that's for sure.
Just to be very specific, you know, and this has been a topic that's been hashed over a lot. But since we're on this point, someone like Morgan Wallen uses the N word, which is inexcusable, But what would you say as a black man where it's just rawly bad, he should be canceled. On the other extreme, he is someone who's not sophisticated, who's listened to a lot of rap records, Jen was inebriated. What's your viewpoint on that?
You know, among as well as cats. You know, I'm part of trying to change his heart. You know, I think, uh, you know this this there's both that. You know, it's both ways. You know, those guys do listen a lot of rap records and you know they hear the word and he's drunk, and you know he wasn't using it in an adult derogatory way, but he shouldn't.
Have been using it at all, right, And you know, I don't know.
It's it's a situation where you know, you know, you try to change somebody, like you try to change his heart. You try to and and try to make it, you know, and I'm sure he does. You see why you can't say that that's just not you know, it's not for you to say. You know, I wish no one would say it. You know, I never used it. I don't use the word. I wish no one would use it, you know. And I understand the reappropriation, and you know, using it the way we're doing rap is just taking it back. But it's like, you know, it's just one of those words that really doesn't need to exist in the English language.
And if you've actually spoken to Morgan Wing about.
This, yeah, I have you know, I mean, I have, you know, and Morgan's trying to do better. Morgan Morgan is he gets it, and he's trying to do better. And you know, you know, I mean, I don't want to say this is what it is, but you know, he's either gonna, you know, when you're in that situation, you're either gonna look at it and know God was wrong and I'm gonna do better, or you know, he's just gonna be who you are.
And I think he's trying to do better.
Now, there's an impression in Nashville and country music that everybody knows everybody. Is that true?
Absolutely everybody knows everybody. And what accounts for that, I don't know. You just see folks. You see folks, you see folks on the war shows or just hanging out somewhere, or you know everybody.
You met everybody and you either become friends with them or your acquaintance acquaintances with them. But you know, you know them, You've met them un in their face, they know you. And because it's it's naturally such a you know, most music doesn't have a home. Most music doesn't have a place where everybody is. You know, rock and roll was everywhere New York, La Atlanta is everywhere. Hip hop is new you know, everywhere, everywhere, everywhere, you know, but uh, country music's in Nashville, and that's where everybody is.
So yeah, everybody knows everybody.
What the people who are not fans of country music and a lot of people talk shit about country music. What do they not understand about today's country music? Oh, I mean a lot of people.
I think a lot of people say they don't like country music because they haven't really listened to it. You know, there's there's a lot of I believe music's music, and there's a lot of there's a great song in every genre of music, you know, even you know, the baroque vocals, chants and all that stuff. Is you can find a good song, and I think it's one of those things they don't want to give a lot of folks, especially you know, especially African American folks, don't want to give it a chance. Don't want to give it a chance because of the stigma of what is you know, what are representative?
You know what?
What what people thought of it for so many years? You know, and that like when I came in one one of the one of the best things about it was, you know, getting letters or d ms from African Americans saying, you know, man, I can you know I've always loved country music. Now I can tell everybody else I love it because you're you're doing you know that that was pretty cool.
And let's say you're going to write a song for Hoody and the Blowfish where a country saw for your solo career, do you approach them differently?
Oh?
Yeah, totally differently.
Yeah, you know, uh, you know, you know, even though who do we wrote a bunch of story songs. But when you're writing, when you're writing country music, you know, you're trying to make a three and a half many movie. You're trying to the story every time, and you know, who do you We're just we're trying to write rock songs, man, you know, we're trying to write yeah, rock songs that are just you know, sometimes you you don't even have Sometimes it's really not about much of anything. It's just about it's just us all the country. Which country songs are always about something?
And what country acts are you with?
Fan enough?
Oh goodness?
Uh?
You know, I love Chapel Heart, I love I love Luke Bryan, I love so many ladies great. Uh, Dirk Brentley, rad Haisley, I love Kane Brown's just amazing.
Luke Holmes is amazing.
Uh, there's a whole there's a bunch of new there's new kids that I found on the internet. I think his name is Javonne Newman. I just think he's amazing, you know, and it's great to see that, to see, you know, a lot of different artists coming up and a lot of people doing stuff, and you know, I sit don't listen to him.
Well do you think I mean? Historically, I country hit music has been a controlled market on many levels, certainly in terms of exhibition terrestrial radio. Do you believe that has changed during your decade plus in country music.
Oh, I think it hasn't changed country music or pop music. You know. It's all I wouldn't say formally, that's not the word I want to use. It's just, you know, it's a.
It's it's a niche.
You know. You have to write verse course, and your course has to be big of course, has to be great, you know, and if you're going to put a bridge in, that's got to say something, you know.
And and you know, I think writing.
Songs is is. I mean, there's a formula for writing songs. Even if you're just writing, you know, a song that's not a hit, there's a formula writing it.
You know.
Even even Dylan wrote verse course, verse course, you know. And I think that's just the way songs are.
Yeah, but if you go back to the Beatles, there's verse chorus bridge. Sometimes they start with a chorus. And you listen to a lot of the Spotify Top fifty, it's like they lost the formula.
Yeah, you know, And but that's that's music. It just you know, it just fluctuates and the changes and it goes back to what was before and then you know, every now and then something new comes brand new, comes out and changes it and then that's just the greatness of music. It's just gonna It's like a it's like a tide. It's going to come in and go out and just keep changing. And I love that about it. And are you a hip hop fan? Love it? You know? Love it? You know, I can't. I couldn't believe how much I loved that. Uh, the Kendrick Lamar Drake feud. I just thought it was great.
Thought are you well you know this is sort of a dumb question. Last are you on Kendrick Steam or Drake's team?
I want to I want both teams because they were both on bangers. So that was what that was what I loved about it is they were both putting out, you know, great songs out of this. I mean, I think Kendrick won that. You know, I'm not gonna lie.
I think people agree with you.
I think Kendrick won.
That that that that that beef. But uh, they were putting out bangers and I was like, you know, I was loving it. Every time I heard there was a new song, I had to hear.
What about Questlove who said he thought it was the end of hip hop?
Oh? Well, he would know better than me.
I will uh, I will uh, I will requiesk the question that you know, I don't think hip hop's ever gonna end. I think hip hop is here to stay forever. Just like even though you know there's no rock and roll in the radio right now, rock and roll is still never gonna go, and there's still people, there's still kids playing rock and rolls in g Rogers right now. But uh, you know, uh, like I said, I'll go, I'll let Quest handle that one. I'm just gonna keep listening. One I line, and is he a friend of yours? Yes, I like Quest a lot. I'm a big fan, and he is a friend, and he's one of the best guys I know.
He's just a good dude.
So how come you never made a hip hop record?
Because I can't rap? That's not what you know that that's not my thing. Uh, you know, I've never really really tried. You know, of course you rap along with the songs you're like, you know, and but you know, I'm not. I'm not a rapper, you know, That's That's something I've never even thought about.
Okay, you talk about contemporary country artists. Did you come up listening to country.
I did, you know, I was a kid. For me, it was Charlie Pride, of course. But uh, you know, Kenny Rogers is my man. You know, I still know all those Kenny Rodgers, you know Coward County and and you know Ruby and and all those songs. I still I still know all the songs. They still make playlists when I'm making playlists to listen to because I think they're great. Charlie rich I loved him, you know, my grandmother loved them. You know that Blue Eye soul that you know, he was a he was a soul singer. He was an R and B singer that was singing country music.
It was great.
Uh. You know, then you can get a little older, and you know I discovered Dwight Yoakam and and Nancy Griffin and New grasp Re Bivle and Bradney Foster and Foster and Lloyd and you know, I discovered these these these artists that just changed the way I heard music. Those artists were just huge for me. And so yeah, I loved it for a long time.
Well, you know, Kenny Rogers and a lot of the acts you're mentioning her from the seventies. How about the earlier artists, you know, whether it be Tammy Wynett, George Jones, et cetera. Were you exposed to them or so?
The the one person from that era that was really I heard the place because my aunt played or was was Loretta Lynn.
You know.
Loretta Lynn was just you know, the Pill and you know the Divorce and all those songs that were great. You know. I remember my aunt played me a kiddie Well song once that just you know, blew my mind, you know, and it was really, you know, it was for me, it was music. I've never I understand that we have to put everything in a place, and we have to compartmentalize everything and put it in a genre. But for me, I say this all the time. You know, we use the same chords, the same notes in the same words, and we play music and everybody and it's just all music to me.
So when do you first remember hearing music growing up?
Oh?
My first memory of music was five years old, four or five years old, listening to al Green, you know, and just discovering instantly that that's what I want to do for the rest of my life.
A little bit more in depth, you hear al Green. How do you decide you want to do it for the rest of your life?
Oh goodness, you know, being a little five year old kid and standing in front of my mom and their friends with the salt and pepper shakers my microphone and basically singing the whole Agreen album and the feedback I would get from them and the love I would get from them.
Just doing that, you know, made me go, Man, I want to do this. I won't.
I want to feel this on a much bigger scale, you know, if it feels like you know, I mean as a young kid thinking it feels like this in the living room, imagine what I feel like this, you know, and the bigger plans for more people looking at you and love.
Did you do a dream ever waivered? Did you ever think at some point, man, I got to give up?
I did? You know?
After high school? You know, when I was graduating high school, I realized not give up so much as just you know, what am I going to do? I mean, I never played in the band in high school. I say, acquired and everything, and I never had a band until college. And so it was like I went to college to get a broadcast journalism degree.
You know, hopefully work on TV talking about sports or something.
And it's not that I'd give it up on my dream.
It's just that I realized I was gonna have to get a real, real life.
Okay, that was your thought graduating from high school. How did you also believe become convinced that no, you could do it?
Oh? It was my sophomore year when I met Mark Indean and we started playing in a band, you know.
And you know, at first, from that first gig where Mark.
And I played of ourselves at Pappy's, the local chicken one joint, you know, you start thinking, all right, man, I can do I want to do this, you know.
That's what that's.
Really in my mind where school became unimportant. It was in my mind where I don't know how we're gonna do this, but we're gonna figure out how. We're gonna play a lot more because I want to do this every night.
Okay, let's just go back. Al Green, who's from Memphis, is supposed to Nashville unbelievable talent. You know, you have Jack White and other people working with old country stars. Do you think you could help Al Green have a hit in today's country market?
Oh? I don't know if I could, but I bet you know, uh, you know, one of the really big superstars could you know, you know, Luke Bryant or or Luke Combs, and one of those guys came, you know, one of those guys that probably helped them have a really huge hit.
But uh, you know, I think.
I'm at the that uh, that point in my career where you know, I don't even know if I get on the radio anymore.
You know, I'm almost sixty. It's been an amazing run.
But I think one of those guys could yeah, do it, do it with Al Green, then you do the right song.
They could have a really big hit.
Okay. Country music is different from rock and roll and pop. Rock and roll and pop, you usually have a window when you have your peak, whereas you know, George Straight, these other people, they have first in country. Traditionally, once you have success, your audience will support you throughout your life. But a lot of people have hits as they get older. It's always hard to climb the mountain again. But why would you not have hits in the future.
I mean I think I might, you know, I could have its, It's just harder, you know, it's like, you know, like you see Garth put out a single, or you see George Straight put out a single. You know, when they were in their heyday, the single raced up the charts, you know, twenty weeks you got a number one, you know. So nowadays, you know, you know, it could take months, eight take eight months to get a record up the chart, you know. And I you know, I hope, I hope they still have I hope. Yeah, I'd love to have ten more hits, you know, But that's I don't I'm gonna stop trying. I'm gonna keep making records and putting them out and seeing what happens. But I'm a realist about life and about my career. And and you're right, I could go play shows for the rest of my life and my fans will come out and see me play. But as much as they want to say they are, the fans, aren't the people who are dictating what's a hit. It's the gatekeepers at radio and you know, the gatekeepers you know, at the at the streaming services that really they're really determined what's going to be a h.
Are you working on an album now?
I'm not right now, you know, I put an album out last year. I guess earlier this year, we put a record out, and and you know, I'm doing the Hoodie tour right now, but I'm gonna start writing the next record. I want to have it out next year. So I'm start writing next record real soon. And you know, I love writing music. I love making records. Okay, So what's your process? You start writing songs because you know, we have an album. Where you get inspired and write a song, how does it play out?
Both?
You know both? You know, I might get off the phone with you, I might get off the zoom with you right now and feel like I write a song sitting here right one.
You know.
But when you're making a record, I mean it's like, you know, it's like a job. You go write songs. You know, you get your buddies and you write songs. You sit around, you know, Okay, I'm gonna write a song today. And because you're trying to get you know, for every I've never written less than fifty songs for any record I've made some country music, you know, you write fifty or sixty and then you pick thirteen, and so you just start writing. And then when you think you got enough, songs, you really start listening to them and decide what you're gonna put on the record.
Well, on some of your solo albums in the country world, you didn't write most of the material.
I think there's a couple of records that, uh I might have had two or three songs I didn't write on them, and or at least co wrote on them. But you know, in country music, when you hear a song, when somebody say to you a song, because that it's you know, it's a it's an occupation in Nashville.
Songwriter, you know, that's what you do your song right.
You know Ashley Gorley, you know is you know, feelthy rich because he's written so many number one songs. And you know when when him or or or you know, one of the other guys sends you a song, it just clicks. You go, Okay, I'm cutting that because yeah, I'm a songwriter, but I'm an artist. You know, I'm an artist. I want to sing great songs. So do people send you songs on a regular basis?
All the time? All the time? Party sent me a song about six weeks ago. All the time?
Yeah, and how do you separate? You know, they hit from the ship. It's like, you know, a lot of people send you unsolicited stuff that would be not worth cutting, not worth listening to. Does it never even get to you because you have a filter or what do you know?
You know, that's the one that goes back to what we were talking about, how everybody knows everybody in Nashville. You know that, you know, it doesn't go to anybody else. They send it to you, They texted to you, you know. And for me, I don't know what's the hit, but I know what I like, and that's how I judge it. If I like it or I love it like a song, Like if I told you you know, but that song came in, I had to cut it. I loved it. I wish I'd written it, you know. I you know, I was talking to one of the writers once and I said, how could you write my life without me being in the room?
And you know, I have to cut that song. But that's for me, that's all I decide.
I mean, I don't know what's a hit, but I know what I like.
How often are they pitching you a song and they're also pitching it to somebody else.
I don't know. I really don't know, but you know, I'll be awesome. There has been songs that have come to me that I turned down that you know, I hear on the radio, you know, and you know that's that's cool. They And the thing is, I don't know how many. I'm sure it happens. I'm sure it happens all the time. But those guys want somebody to cut their song. But I'm not mad at them. You know, if I was just if I was a song writer not an artist, I'd be doing the same thing.
But if you commit to a song, they commit. They won't pitch it to anybody else.
Absolutely, If somebody sends me a song and I text them go, I'm gonna cut this, they won't sign it somebody else. And if they have said it to somebody else, they'll text us go, hey, Darius's gotten this.
Okay. Have you ever heard one of these songs that was pitched to you that you didn't cut and you later hear the finished record, You go and I do like that that was a hit. I missed that.
Uh yeah, you know, but I don't. I don't ever said I missed it because usually there was a song guys. So when I hear a song I use. I like it, and I think I get but I just go I don't. I'm not gonna cut it. You know, I like it, but it's not for me. So when you're here with somebody else, you go, yeah, that sounds great, that's a hit.
Yeah, that's a hit for them. But I still wouldn't cut it.
And how about co writing? How do you approach that?
I love it.
I love it, And and the crazy thing is I never started co writing until like they in the Nashville, like all the hoody stuff, we never wrote together.
You know.
We all just wrote songs that brought him into the group. Or or you know one of those guys that write some music and they're bringing it and give it to me and say, write some words to the song. And So I love co writing because the thing I love the most about co writing is you'll be sitting in the room and you'll come up well lined and you'll love that line and you'll sing it to somebody that you're co writer, and they'll sing it back to you. But one note will be different or who knows to be different, and one they'll they'll change a word here, and you realize, oh, that's so much better because for me, you know, I sing the way I sing, and when I hear somebody else sing something back to me and it's a little different. You know, I want to sing that like that because I love the way that sounds. And you know it's it's not me being me, it's me singing a song.
Okay. I mean people were writers, weren't even performers. You know, five days a week, they'll meet with people to write other songs. Do you just get together with people when you know you're working up material for an album? What would make you have a writing session?
Uh? Just you know, either it happens sometimes when people just call and you know, you see somebody who let's write a song, and then you text each other you'll set up a session. But when I'm when I'm writing for a record, yet three sessions a day, five days a week, you know you're just going to you going you write.
And when you go into the room, do you bring something or you're totally a blank slate.
That happens both ways. Sometimes you got an idea that you take in and you know, I've walked in with a with a verse and the chorus. You know I've walked in with two verses and a chorus and just need a bridge, you know, And other guys will come the same way where they come with you know, versus the chorus or or or or just the chorus, and you go, all right, that's it, that's right, that one, you know, and that's always that. That's the That's the great thing about songwriting. It's it could be, it can go anyway. There's also great songs that come from you know, you're sitting around and nobody's got any ideas. Somebody says one line and somebody catches on to that, and you go and write a song.
And what's the right number of people in the room?
I think three is are perfect a great number three or two. I think when you get four people in a room for more, it's just too many.
It's too much.
And I've done it, neve written great songs that way, but it really is too much before or more?
And is there how do you decide on credit?
Oh, there's just if there's four people, you split four ways. Just three people used put it in three ways. There's I've never been in a room that was a discussion on percentages. That's just the way it is.
And if you could write with two people, who would do those people be that.
I haven't written with?
No, well, let's start with that that you haven't written with.
If I write with two people I haven't written with, it would probably be probably like Keith Urban and h Kelly Loveless. I've never rely saw Kelly lovelas. He's a big writer that I'd like to sit two of them and write a song.
But I write.
You know, if people I write with Asthley Gorley would have to be in the room.
He's a He's a freaking genius. Uh uh.
And Charles Kelly Lady. I love writing with him. He's because he's got a voice that I just admire so much. Or Chris Stapleton.
You know, well, let's stay with Stapleton, because Stapleton was around for a better part of twenty years before he broke through, and he and his music are, if not the most revered in Nashville, close to it. But he is doing something a little bit different than everybody else. He doesn't seem to be playing to the market. It's almost more rock and roll. What's your take on Stapleton? What's the magic there?
He's got that thing that all artists wants you know, he don't have to play the market. You know, Chris could put out anything that's going to be a hit. I mean, like you said, he's the standard bearer or country. He's the best singer in the business, and so he does what he wants and I love it. I'm such a big fan, you know, I love writing with him. You know, I've had number ones with him. You know, he's just He's Chris and that's all he wants to be and I love it.
How about some people in the Americana world, which doesn't charge on country radio but gets a lot of respect, people like Jason Isbells the world do you pay attention to.
I love Jason as well. I would write with him at Heartbeat.
I think he's a you know Rihanna Gibbons, you know, I would love to write with her. You know, I think that that whole genre is is great, and you know, Jason is just a crazy great songwriter, a lot of a huge fani.
Okay, let's go back to South Carolina. You know, the country is a result of the Internet and cable television. There is no flyover country. And I certainly know growing up in the Northeast that I had a long term girlfriend from Tallahassee, which people don't realize is more Georgia than you know, South Florida. So what can you tell us about growing up in South Carolina? So it was it was a southern town, you know, but it was.
It was a bastion of of of For me growing up, it was I was raised by a village. You know, we had a neighborhood that was everybody. We were all close, We were all friends, family, all the families were friends. You knew everybody in the neighborhood. You know, if you went around the corner and you know, miss Simmons had to whoop you because you did something wrong, you know, your mom didn't get up and go around and yell at miss Simmons. When you got home, you got another whooping because Miss Simmons had to whoop you, you know. I mean, we were raised by everybody's parents and it was great for me. I loved it. I mean I would say I'd do my childhood to get an harpyat. And for me, you know, you experience, you know, experienced racism and stuff like that, but it just it was just what it was. I mean, it was just you. You dealt with it, and you moved on, you know, and because it was what it was, and I just grew up. We grew up with not a lot, but we had. There was so much love and so much friendship and so much camaraderie. I mean, I'm still best friends with the five guys I grew up with. You know, we still text each other every day. We have a group text where we text every day. And what are those guys up to? You know, guys are doing different. One guy's a money guy, one guy's a lawyer. One guy runs the school districts in Beaufer County, and you know, one guy works at Target. You know, you know, one guy whoves out in California as a social worker. I mean, everybody's doing their own thing and loving it.
So everybody this environment in the village ended up generally speaking good stories.
My friends all did Yes, my friends all ended up being good, hard working folks who who you know, I want to say God out of it, because that's just not the word. Who became great, great men who raised their families and work their jobs and try to enjoy themselves.
So how does this affect how you raise your kids? Oh?
You know, I like I would like to think you like his. I think I was a pretty good dad. I mean, I just I just wanted them to be happy and successful.
What are they up to.
I got, you know, one one daughter who lives here in Nashville who's doing really well for herself. I got a daughter just who graduated college college in Florida. I got a daughter just graduated from NYU.
You know.
I got a son that you know, went to NYU and you know now he wants to get into real estate. And they're just healthy, happy kids working their butt off, knowing that you know, their parents have their backs.
And are they off the payroll?
You know pretty much? You know, the younger ones probably not, you know. And uh, the one who just graduated colleges, you know, she's still kind of on it. And you know, but I'm sure just the way we live, you know, I don't ever want them to be totally off the payroll. I'm always there for them, you know. I want them to get jobs. And they are and living their lives and working hard. But you know, they need anything, I'll always be here.
What if they call for money? What would you say no to?
Oh? If they wanted to my house I wanted my car and say no, no, like you know, you go work for that. But uh, you know, you know I'm a good dad. I'm a generous dad. But uh, you know, I would never imagine cutting my kids off or saying I'm not going to give you anything, because that's just not who I am.
Well, needless to say, you've created quite an asset base. When you do pass, which hopefully won't be for thirty odd years, what do you plan to do with the money?
Give it to them, and I'm sure I'll leave some to the some charities I love, But you know, I want my kids to enjoy the benefits of my hard work.
So let's go back to South Carolina growing up. What kind of kid we like? In school?
I was a good I was a good student, you know, didn't get in trouble at school very often. Until high school. I was an athlete. And then in high school I became music became you know, the choir and the choruses and a small the small group were my life, you know that going to rehearsals and we we had a show choir. That was that was a lot of work, you know, a lot of after school rehearsals.
And stuff like that.
Well, some people might have not been exposed to show choir, So tell us about show choirs.
Choirs. Uh, you know, it's it's it's a big it's not you. When you take a choir, you think of church, and it wasn't that. It was choirs that got together and you know, you sang contemporary songs or during Christmas you sang all the Christmas stuff and you know there was some dancing to it, and there was some uh some uh you know, little choreography and a little but it was you know, at my school, the Middleston singers were a big deal, you know, and you had to try out. Not everybody made it. Probably less than a halfter people that tried out made it. And so it was a big deal. And and so choir was fun. It was you know, twenty girls and twenty guys that all could say and would go out there and try to be great.
So it's in your book for those people don't know. You graduate from high school and then what do you do.
I went to the University of South Carolina and majors in broadcast journalism.
And what was that experience like? At first?
It was tough, you know, I had gone from this high school. I think my graduating class had three hundred and twenty people or something. You know, I was I was a senior class vice president.
You know.
I went from the school where and I was in every clique. I was in the jocks click, I was in the you know, the stoner's click. I was in you know, the music click. I was in the big brothers and sisters. Cause I was just.
I was just. I was friends with everybody.
And I went from that to this university of forty thousand people, and that was a culture shock for me. It really was first semester it was a culture shop. And at first I didn't think I liked it, and then I did. Yeah, when I found my place and my friends, I did like it. And it was it was a big university. It was exactly what you're think it is. You know, college football every Saturday, and and you know, every weekend I haven't parted our butts off, and every wanting to go home to visit parents and tell Thanksgiving. You know, it was a typical southern college college experience. And you know that's something that's another thing I would do and get an RP. But you ultimately leave there right now. I stayed there the whole time I was gonna leave, And then I met a buddy of mine right before right before Christmas break, I met, I met, I knew him, but he asked me to come and have a beer with him, and we just had such a great time.
I decided to stay.
And yeah, Yo, that's one of those things that I, you know, I believe in fate because I looked at that moment of where I really was going to transfer, and his name was Chris Carney, and he actually he runs my life right now.
But uh, he you know, beating him at not meeting him, but just talking to him.
That day at at that whole meeting and staying and having so much such a great time with him, and ended up staying in South Carolina. I mean, if I'd left South Carolina, I wouldn't be talking to you that rapp.
You know.
I don't know if I would have ever played in the band if I'd doing this stuff after school.
So that's one of those things that makes me believe in fame.
And what about finishing college.
Uh, after my junior year, I had wracked up a pretty good uh student loan debt and uh didn't have really the money to go back, so I decided to take a year off and just never went back.
So, you know, like Bruce Springsteen has that record where his mother says he can still go back to college.
Oh yeah, oh yeah. And the funny thing is, I think about it now because I'm such a gay Flock supporter. I think a lot that you know, take online classes and stuff and go back just to get the degree, so I could up being a graduate of the University of Carolina. But you know, like my friends have to say, I think you did all right for yourself. So I'll see it that way.
What about your kids if your kids wanted to drop out.
My nineteen year old has decided he did colleges enough for him, and I was fine with it. Collegism for everybody in today's world doesn't have to be you know, it was just hounded into our head back in the day that if you want a good job, you have to have a college degree.
You know. I just don't believe that anymore, you know.
And and you know, like I said, he was going to the NYU and to drop four hundred grand to go to the school.
You know, when you don't want to go to school just if he didn't want to go. I was fine with that.
Okay. So you play with your buddy out and you have this realization that whoa, I could do this. What happens next.
Oh, we get another buddy and another buddy and we start playing shows, and you know, we start traveling all over the East Coast after a while.
A little bit. So first of all, I'm sure you don't like it. Many people call you Hoody, But in the book it tells the story of how the band named Hoody and the Blowfish came about. Can you tell my audience that story?
Oh? I was. I was actually in a show choir and that's that's South Carolina and called Carolina Alive.
And we were we were ship Man.
We we played inaugurations and all over the place we would play, and we were starting the band. Market and I played together for a few months and we were starting the band. We had our first gig about a week after this happened. And there was one guy that had really big guys and more round glasses like leaden and I started calling them Moodie, and everybody in the show choir started calling. And his best friend had these big cheeks and he was a trumpet player.
It could blow them up.
And I called him the blowfish and I just kept calling bow Fish that everybody the show choir was called the blowfish. And they walked into a party once in my room in Myrtle Beach. We were playing singing somewhere in Myrtle Beach and I was in my room and they walked in to the room and I said, hey, Hoody the bowfishes here. And I thought, my head, but Hooty the Bufish has to be the name of our band. And I went back and said Mark, although they've been Hooty the bois and he said whatever, And we've been hooting both ever since.
Okay, just so I understand the timeline. While you were playing with Mark, you were also in the choir.
Yes, yeah, we were still in college. We were living on the dorm hall and we were still in college and you know, we were just starting the band. I mean I think that was the fourth third or fourth time we ever played together when we played with the band.
Okay, but the show choir was back home was associated with the school.
Right, yes it was. It was at the universityth Carolina. It was called Lot.
Yes, So what was it like being in the show choir in college as opposed to high Oh.
The big difference was the parties. I mean all we do was party. You know.
We went through these great places. We would get to go to these great places, these great cities, you know, Pittsburgh, New York, you know, go down to Miami, you know, go to Hertle Beach, go all these places and get to to get to sing, either in competitions or just and just singing. And it was it was awesome, you know. And we were great. I mean we we I look back in those days and we were great. I mean everybody in there was a world class singer. You know, a lot of people were getting scholarships.
That's this thing. And it was it was it was awesome.
I mean you really felt like you when you heard other folks singing in that choir, you felt like you were doing something because you were part of that.
And what about the partying, the sex, the drugs, the alcohol. What when you're in college to what degree that a part of the show choir.
I mean it wasn't back then the drugs learn so much, but the accident. The alcohol was prevalent. It was everywhere. It was you know, we were kids. You know, that's what we were doing. You know, that's what we were doing. We were having a party. And but you know, we were we were pros. Party didn't start till the show was though, but but yeah, we could have a party.
And how long after you start playing with Mark did you stop being in the show choir?
Oh? Goodness, probably a year and a half after market I started. After the band started, I stopped sitting to the show choir. And it wasn't like, you know, I just quit the show choir because the market marketing was still in school, so it's not like we could just get in the vans and go during the week or anything or and so you know, and and all the all the shows for the show choir we usually booked before the semester started, so you know, when you were at when I was going to be out of town with them, So we just planned our shows around that.
Okay, so you play out with Mark, the bell goes off in your head. What's the next step?
I found a drummer in the bass player and uh, Mark.
Can you tell this story about the girl and the thoughts etc. That's in the book?
Well? Which girl? Will Sony by the drummer. Well, you know, we our first drummer quit and uh, we were looking for drummers, and uh, like seven guys were coming to play with us one day and I saw Sony's name on the list, and I told Mark and Dean that Sony wasn't going to be our drummer because I hated him. And the reason I hated him was my freshman year in college, when I was in the show choir, I had a friend. You know, I was still in the friend zone, but I was trying not to be in the friend zone. But we were pretty tight. We hung out a lot and uh. And so she calls me up and tells me to come to her room, which was seriously on the opposite end of campus from where I am.
And so I'm all excited. I think today's today, you know.
And I get up and I walk all the way across campus, a twenty minute walk, probably twenty five minute walk, and I get to her room and she takes me out seat. She rushes me outside, and she tells me to stand on the bridge while she runs down and take a picture of her. When she got I realized when she was running down that she had written we had these sand volleyball courts, and I realized she had written in the sand I love Sony And I didn't know who the Sony guy was, but I hated him. And then later I found out, you know who he was and everything. But uh, yeah, I told him he was never gonna be our drummer. But yeah, I was wrong.
So where is that girl today?
Oh goodness, I haven't talked to Devin years. It's been I couldn't tell you. I really haven't known it. I haven't seen her in years.
Okay, you become internationally famous, does everybody you ever knew come out of the woodwork?
A lot of people have. Yeah, like I like when we first got big, I saw her a couple times in a couple of shows. It was great to see her. She was She's a wonderful human being. It's a wonderful human being. And you know, it's still down. You know, I'll be playing a show in some city. A buddy of mine that I grew up with, that I haven't seen in thirty five years, you know, found me the It's social media makes it so easy. You know, found me on Instagram the other day. And you know he's coming out to his show this week and people just coming out of the woodwork and nine time is great. You know, it's it's that five percent when it was somebody who didn't like back then. You know.
But uh that that's a rarity.
And how about people asking for money?
Uh that that's been a problem.
You know, that's been something.
That's the problem.
You know.
I've gotten good at saying no. I've gotten really good at saying no.
I think early on it's tough for me to say no because I was doing so well, and you know, I hate to see anybody. I know how hard it must be for some people to do that. But uh, I'm really good at saying.
Now, okay. Friend of mine, Steve Lucather, guitarist in Toto and other things, he says when he gives people money, just say it's a gift, because if you say it's alone, they don't pay it back. You ruin the friendship, et cetera. What's your experience been.
Oh, I agree with that one.
I don't say it's a gift, and they always go bad, I'm going to pay you back, and I go okay, But in my mind giving it to him, because I can honestly say, of all the times I've given money to family or friends and they said they were going to pay it back.
I think maybe one person did.
Okay, So now you have the band, you have four members in the band. What happens after that?
We start playing, you know, and we we play from New York down to Florida and Tennessee and.
Who whoaaha, you get a band together. What are the first couple of gigs?
Oh? Just I was Chicken Wing Joy in Columbia. That was right across the street from my dorm.
You know.
We would literally carry our instruments from our dorm room across the street and play at Pappy's and it was great.
You know, it's not even there anymore. It's a bookstore now.
Well, a lot of people, you know, bands start and there's a member in the band who's hitting up every club owner. It says, give us a gig, give us a chance. What happened with your band?
Sure we did that, you know, especially especially in the first couple of years, where we just called clubs in town that we knew had bands and tried to get in. And then you start calling outside of town, and you know, you start playing frats and you know, I guess we got lucky early on. I think it was East Coast Booking or something was the David book Is. Somebody saw us one night, liked us, and so they would.
Help us book that.
They would help us book shows all you know, either frat house here or some small club somewhere, and you know, so you just start playing and developing a reputation. And I mean, I'll say, you know, every club we ever played, we might have gone there the first time there was ten people there, but the next time we came.
There was forty.
Why because we were good, you know, we were good and we were fun. And people would tell their friends, well that WHOI Wolf's band back in time. We gotta go see them, And then the next time they be eighty. Then the next time they'd be two hundred.
Okay, you're the front band. It's your job. How do you make it fun?
Oh? I never thought of it like that way. You know, for us, it was just let's go play our music, you know. I mean, I think it's still like that when Hoodie's together. It's not it's not my job to make it fun. We play music and we do what we do and we hope you like it. I will say to somebody the other day, the difference between playing my country band and playing with Whodi is when I play with Hoodie, I feel like I'm Jerry Garcia. I'm saying, I'm never with my guitar and my job is to play guitar and say, you know. But when I play with my country band, I feel like my job is to be big jagger. I mean, and that's just two different things. But with Hoody that's what we are as well. We were just we were four. We were a band. It wasn't anybody's band. There was no front man. We were all the frontman.
I was just a guy, that's And at what point did the money become such? He said, wait a second, this is real. Never mind not finishing school.
Oh before we before we made it, before we had a record deal, I think two years about. We played for seven years before we had a record deal, and I think two or three years before before we got a record deal, we each made like fifty sixty thousand dollars each and we thought that was amazing. We were making more than our friends that had graduated, and we're working in all these different jobs.
So it was like, you know, we're doing just fine, we're doing all right.
And that was how we felt, you know, Okay, we're doing fun, and we're making money. We're playing a lot of shows. We're making money, and we're working our buts off, and we compare our bills and have money to go out and drink and have money to buy clothes, and it felt good. It felt like we were doing something right.
At what point did you start to play original material.
Oh, after the first couple of years, Like, yeah, Sony came in. You know, we started in eighty six. We started really writing songs in eighty eight, and Sony came in the band in eighty nine. And when Sony came in, it was, you know, we went pretty much straight to eighty percent originals and you know, twenty percent covers unless you were going to our frat house then you know, you do sixty forty.
Was there somebody in the band who said, wait a second, we have to write originals.
No, that was just something we wanted to do. It was never anything that anybody's sitting down and going, okay, we got to It was a you know, we just started writing songs, you know, and we'd play them and and you know, it was for us. It was always when we're in Columbia, let's play the new songs, because those people have been listening to us for a while. If they don't like it, we should probably scrap. And so that's how we started.
Now you're on the road and rock and roll band, you're paid in cash. Most people are not paying taxes on most of that money. What were you guys doing?
Not us? We had our bass player was a business major, and we we would take half of everything we made every night, put it away from taxes. Really every every night, every night. We sometimes we'd get mad. We would get mad, but uh, you know, we put away from taxes and we pay taxes and everybody would get it all bad, you know, but we didn't want some day to make it and then ours coming over what happened in these three years you guys were playing.
Have you ever had that experience in your career? With the I R S came into what did you want?
It?
Significant?
Some oh knuckle would no.
Okay, because that's a typical rock and roll story.
But we didn't live that story. I mean, Dean wouldn't let us. We were sticklers with taxes and we were sticklers were doing everything right, and because we didn't want that to wrappen.
So you're driving in a van. There are bands who literally died with their van flips over. In addition, they stayed in a hotel and the equipment is stolen. What were your experiences going on the road for all these years before you had a record deal?
Oh goodness, it was usually good.
I mean we our first van sucked in the navy seats in the back, so we'd lay on the ground and the equipment would be there, and a couple of times until somebody hit the brakes and thank god we were all awake because we had all but sleeping. One of us or too, was to be dead because the equipment started to come forward, and you know, you got up and got your hands up in time to stop it from killing us. But uh, the worst thing that ever happened to us. We were playing the Bayou and DC and we were parked out back.
Our fan was parked out back.
We packed up the van with all the equipment and we went out drinking and we at this point we had one other guy with us, Jeff Poland with the He was a slash bank tour manager, slash security. He's riding with us in the van, and we came back and five of our guitarism and there was abandoned house right next to the bayou, and we knew homeless folks lived in there, and Jeff wasn't having it, and we went into that house and we found all our guitars and we beat a couple of people up with the guitars back.
Wow.
Yeah.
And no car accidents, No car accidents. We were lucky with that. No car accidents. I mean when we finally had a trailer once one of the guitars fell out of the trailer that we didn't know and that that sucked.
He lost a really good lass ball that day.
Wow.
Yeah.
Okay. Their bands they meet in high school, they travel in vans. By the time they have the success, they hate each other. And there's certainly mega bands where everybody goes in their own limo. You know, you got four guys in a van, et cetera. How harmonious was it?
Oh?
We were best friends. We were separable. I mean it was we would go on the roads for three weeks, come home, I'm going to come home, And in an hour of being home, we were calling each other to find out where we were going that night.
We were always together and he loved it.
And you know, I know acts where you know, all of a sudden, a couple of years after college, they got parental pressure whatever. They had a girlfriend and they said I'm stopping. Ready, the members of Hoodie the Blowfish saying, man, you know, I can't do this for another year. I'm thinking of quitting.
Uh huh huh. No, that's that four of us. I mean, our first drummer quit, Our first drummer left the band. He he you know, he was he was really religious in this. I mean, his family didn't want him playing in the band. And we understood that and we respected that. It was probably a good thing because then Sony wouldn't be in the band and we would have home my hand and you know, some other stuff and so but uh, the four of us, it was ever that. It was never I'm gonna quit. It was we won't play until we make it.
Okay, okay. Was there a conscious thing because you're making good money at this point and you're living quite a life. Was there a conscious thing? We got to get a record deal, We're going to be big stars.
At first, at first, that was that though I don't think we ever said we're going to be big stars, especially the nineties when grunge took over, you know. But uh, at first it was that do we got a record deal with a company like Capricorn Records or something I think it was called, and uh we got a record that was so excited and they went under before we made our record, and that really, I think put a bad taste in our mouth labels, and so we we weren't drying to get a record deal because we were making money. We were playing shows, we were we were selling out, you know, like I said, I'm from New York down to Florida and all every every state, every six weeks, the same clubs selling them out, you know, even some towns moving to a little theater because we were doing so well. So we if a record deal came, great, If not, we're just gonna keeping make playing, keep making music.
But then Atlantic comes around. So are you once beaten twice shy or how does what goes on there?
No? We put when we put Kouchi Pop out, which was our EP that wrapped for Crack Review. Uh, we put that out and we sold like sixty five thousand copies out of the back of our van and at Mama Pop stores.
All around the Carolinas and Georgia and.
Stuff, and and Atlantic was the only one that came. I mean, there were a few labels that wanted to come see this band that was out selling YouTube and Pearl Jam down in the Carolinas, you know, and they wanted to sign us. And you know, it was like, okay, let's go make a record. You know, hopefully we'll sell two undred thousand copies. They'll let us make another one. So how'd you end up using Gone Gaming? We talked about a few We talked to a few producers, like good names, really good names, and we met Don And the minute we met Don, we knew he was our producer. He was such a calming, laid back, affeelable, invuncular presence in our lot instantly, and we knew we wanted that guy. And he had also done an RM record and he had done those Melicat records. You know, it was like, yeah, we want to sound like that.
So what was the experience of making the record?
Like, oh man, our first record was you know, the four of us all lived in the same house, two bedroom apartment we lived in to make that record.
And it was it was us against the world. It was awesome.
You know. We drove in the studio together every day, we hung out all day. After the studio, we ate together and went home and watched TV together. We went out the bars together. It was awesome. It was it was exactly what we needed to make our first record, and it was it was never work. It was never working. It was it was always God, we're working with Dog gave it. We're going to make this damn record. This is crazy, Okay.
A lot of people make the first record and when they're done, they're not happy. They feel they were pushed around by the label or the producer who didn't sound the way they wanted to do. When the record was done, how did you feel about the record?
You know, I remember taking I thought that we played everything too slow, but that you know, that's because we were still playing used to playing live, and you know those click tracks you know, you're drinking songs just get faster when you're that in that atmosphere.
But I thought it was a great record.
Okay, So you deliver the record to Atlantic and they say, this is ship. We don't want to do anything with it. I'm not gonna say they say it was ship. You know, there were a couple of people up in Atlantic, they said it was ship you know. Uh, you know, actually Daddy Gober who was the president, loved it. You know, Tim Summer right and our guy loved it. You know, there were people up there that thought it was really cool. But there were a couple of people who were important that didn't like it because their mind, their mind was on grunge, their mind was on what was popular at the time, what was what was the big thing, you know at the time, and we weren't grunge. And I still think the greatest line of that type of our lives was the guy who said that that if Atlantic put that record out, there would be the laughing stock of music.
That's a direct quote. I just always laugh at that. You know, we all laugh at that.
I'm sure Atlantic that I bet the guy that says that that laughs at that.
Now, Well, in this process between the record being finished, in the record gaining traction, what was your mood, in the mood of the rest of the band, We're like, no, this is still gonna happen, or man, we cut this record and they're not going to get behind it.
Oh, we do, we do. We knew they were gonna get behind it, you know. I mean, they didn't give us anybody to make it, so we knew. So our attitudes. Let's go out and play shows and get people to go out and buy it. You know, Let's go up and play. Let's do what we're doing and tell them on stage we got a new record out. Yeah, go buy a record. Let's start. Let's tell two hundred thousand copies and get to make another one.
We were we were never woe is me. We were never those folks. We were never victims. You know.
We were on a major recordable man. You know, let's just go out and play. Let's keep doing exactly what we were doing.
When was the first time you heard the song on the radio?
Oh, I mean the the week the single came out, we called My Head came out as a single. We heard it Columbia on the radio, you know, and it was wow, there we are on the radio.
You know, it was awesome.
I mean, were you know there were stations in Columbia and Charleston and Bertle Beast that were playing the song, you know, but it just wasn't nationwide yet.
Okay, at what point did you get a manager and a major agent?
Oh, we got a manager before Coucie Pop, like when we were when we were we were making our very first EP. We got a manager. But he was just some dude that we do. It wasn't like he was a big time. He was just some dude. We know that, and we need people to make phone calls and stuff. That could be our manager. You know, we got a major booking agent, probably right after Letterman, you know, right after Letleman as well.
We led a major booking agency.
So how long did you stay with that booking agent?
Oh? Forever?
We we I don't think we left him. We were living with them for six years, maybe six seven years.
And how did you get rid of the garage manager?
He was what We kept him for ten years or probably more. Maybe I'm sure it's more than that. You know, he was just our manager.
It was he was.
He was part of our group. He was just one of us, you know, and so we kept him forever. And then finally he just wasn't working out for us. We didn't like some of the decisions he made and some things he did, and we just decided to move on.
And when we talked McGee.
So, how did you decide on Doc?
Oh? I knew when we were when we were firing Rusty, Doc was going to be a manager. We hadn't met Doc a couple of times, and he loved us like Doc was a Rusty's bental and and and you know the joke was he would know Russey would call Doc and ask him what he should do, and when Doc told him what to do, he would do the exact opposite.
And so, uh, you know, Doc was a no brainer for us.
And what did Doc do that Rusty couldn't do?
Goodness, exactly what Doc said he was gonna do. He said that, uh, we're gonna tour less and make a lot more money, and we're gonna do it the right way.
And that's exactly what he did.
Well, a little bit more granular, What did he actually changed so that came true?
Oh, I mean everything, he streamlined everything we didn't have. We we didn't say yes to the opening of of a doenvelope anymore, you know, we we made what we did special. He made people see what we did, we're doing a special. And he was Doc McGee. Doc McGee calls you. You take the phone call and so he just big time managed us and he made it. He made being us something that was cool and important, and just do it on a bigger scale.
Like it's like John bun Joey said to me.
When we looked where were when we fired RUSI, we're looking for managers. I called John and I asked him what he thought about Doctor, and he said, Doc will take what you want to do in a theater and you'll do it in a in the stadium.
And that was Doc.
And you're still with Doc, right.
I'm not with Doc anymore? No, Doc, Doc's I'm pretty much retired these days. I'm with the Maverick now with Clarence Faulding. But uh yeah, you know Doc is still my dad. I still call him for advice every week.
So how'd you decide who your new manager would be?
I do, Clarence. I've got Clarence you know, around here in Nashville. And uh I liked them, and you know, at this point of my career, at the point I went with Class I guess about five six years ago. Now, I mean, I just want somebody that I liked, that I get that that that wants to work would be you know that wants to take what I have and maximize it and not work my butt off and make me do things I don't want to do. And so when Clarence and I had a meeting, because I met with every manager pretty much in Nashville, who is somebody and you know it was it was definitely Clarence for me.
Tell us about that definitive performance on Letterman oh Man.
You know, the legend goes that, uh, you know Letterman artists in the radio on Tuesday.
It was it was it was a DJ. The DJ had heard whom I.
Had in a meeting and they weren't gonna add it. You know, it was it was drivetime DJ. They were gonna add it, and he loved the song, and you said, I'm gonna play this song. You gotta tell me what you think? What do you think? Was the only time they had ever played it, And you know, Letterman hears it on the drive home from the show, and you know, the legend is that he pulled over and called his book engagent and said, I want this band on my on my show.
This is Tuesday.
We were on the show on Friday, and first of we got a phone call on Wednesday, week Wednesday morning. We didn't believe it. We thought our manager was fucking with us. You know, no way, because we were says fans of the show. I mean that was a staple for us, watching Letterman and no way, there's there's no way, David Levond, you know. And we got a show in Colombia that night. You know, we can't. You know, that's the biggest show we've ever had in Columbia, the four thousand people. You know, we got to play the show. We'll get take the TV show, you know. And the first time the label stepped up and got us a plane, you know. And I always say we played, we drove to uh we we flew to Florida. That we flew to New York that day and we we we couldn't get on the radio anywhere.
Except the Carolina's and we left in that Monday. We were the most added for the next eight days in a row.
You know.
It was it just it changed our lives.
Okay, that album crack re review becomes a phenomenon and the band is everywhere. What was it like being on the ride? Oh we did, We didn't see it. All we saw was that we were so insulated with the four of us. That that was a that was the point in our career where if you wore a black T shirt, the other three guys.
Would destroy you. You know.
It was we were so insulated and so conscious of each other that all we saw was it the shows were getting bigger, and you know, we were doing you know, there's more TV shows calling us. That's just the play. That's how we saw. The shows were getting bigger, and we're doing a little bit more TV.
That's good. We're good with that, you know. And then the money started coming in.
Okay, you're so successful that ultimately a backlash begins. Do you experience that at all?
Of course, of course, you know, of course you experienced it, you know.
And it was the thing that we had going for us with that was that even when we played clubs and we were becoming the biggest bands in the clubs, you know, other bands didn't respect us. You know, they either called us a cover band or they were you know, those guys playing that pop music. You know, they so like we wouldn't even write our names on the walls the clubs were players. Because we knew when we came back somebody would be talking ship under Yeah, so when that happened, it was just like, okay, but we're still sell our baskets, Square Guard, three Nights in the road. You know, we still you know, we're still going to number one five times.
You know.
Okay, you y'all will have to like us, because everybody out there that's a couple to see us loves us.
And you emphasize in the book that you're living the rock and roll lifestyle.
Oh, we were having a party. We were It was a flat out, flat out party.
Yes, it was everything you expected, you know, sex, drugs, and rock and roll.
It was. It was so much fun.
So no regrets, you say that was great. Glad I got to do it.
None. I'm glad. I'm glad all the four of us came out the other side. Okay, I'm glad the four of us could be these guys who the party's over for. But we had a great time when it was going.
No regrets.
What can you tell us about women on the road?
So they were there. I want to tell you about that they were.
Okay, so a certain number of women were willing. Did you have an interest in these women beyond one night? Did some of these women have an interest in you beyond one night when you weren't interested.
Sure, I had girlfriends, you know, I had I dated people here and there, but uh, you know, at that point, it was it was so hard to date anybody because we were traveling all the time. We were never off the road, you know, so it was hard to date anybody. And so, you know, it was it was all about fun, you know. And there were folks you hung out with and you saw more than once and you hung out, but it was it was that it was that this man. It was you know, the hedonistic lifestyle. And what about drugs everywhere? You know, it was everywhere. We yeah, you know, we did our share and probably some other people share too. We had a real good time.
The first check comes in, what do you buy?
First check came out, I paid off my student loan and bought a truck, the first truck I ever was the first utumbild of my life.
Yep, okay, tell me about the experience of the second record.
Oh, I think we made that record too quick.
I've said that before, but you know, Marx just really wanted to make a record and we we we're banned, and you know, somebody feels strongly about it. You can talk us into it, we'll all do it. So we It was a great experience, you know. We we we rented a big house in l A. We went, we reread it. Uh, we went. We were up in the hills of Sarah Fell and we just stayed. We stayed at the studio and we thought it was great because everybody had their own room. And but it was it was us, a dog and the engineer and you know, a couple of other people, and we ate there and we worked out there, and we played golf right down the street, and it was a great experience. It was just once again us against the world.
So in retrospect, was it the record was released too soon or the record didn't have it or both?
Well, I think the I think it's a better record to crecor review. I just think we put it out too soon. I mean, you know, our label wanted to put out one or two more singles, and their words, not our words, go after thriller, you know, that's what they wanted to do. But uh, you know we did, and you know, we sold five or six million copies or whatever it was. You know, that was considered a flop. After selling whatever wherever we were at that time with record Review.
Okay, at this point in time, do you still get royalties from the Hoodie Records?
Oh? Yeah, every week every year.
And do you own the songs you wrote?
We knew yes.
And in this crazy rule to the last six eight years where everybody's selling their publishing in royalties, were you ever approached? Would you ever do that?
Oh? We get approach all the time, and I don't plan to do it. I mean that for me, that's an annuity for my kids. And you know, I don't need the hard earned I don't need the hard money and my bank account or anything you know from that when I know that the money's going to come eventually. But uh, you know, and people ask the Bible kind all all the time. You know, I'm not really interested in that right now.
So at what point do you realize that whod he peaked with the first record and it's not going to sustain? And how does that feel?
Oh? I said that before we went into the second record. That was that was a direct thing I said to the band. You guys know that what we just went through is an anomaly and that just doesn't happen like that. I mean, you can look at the history of music and the history of the biggest records in the world. And you know, you look at Michael Jackson from Thriller to Bad, you know, it just doesn't sustain.
You know.
We just wanted to keep playing playing music at the level we were playing it, and we got.
To So what comes first, your country career or the winding down of Hoodie?
Oh, the winding down of Hoodie for sure. I mean I would have I don't think I would have ever gone to Nashville if someone hadn't come in and said he didn't want to tour anyone. You know, that was our job. We toured every year. That was what we did for a living. We went out in the summer, and so that was just what we were doing. And until you know, one of the band members said didn't want to do that anymore, that's what we want to done, we'd probably still be doing it that way.
Okay, you have this great success in the country world, how do you decide to work with Hoodie again?
We had we had not played in ten years. In nineteen we hadn't played in ten years. And to be honest with you, when they came to me with it, I wasn't enthusiastic about it. I wasn't because I remember the end and when we stopped playing, you know, we would still play the fourteen thousands either, but there'd only be nine thousand people there, you know. And when you look out there and there's five thousand depty seats, that sucks. I mean, yeah, there's nine thousand people there, but yeah, there's five thousand depty seats the place that we used to sell out. And so that was such. So I said in the meeting that I didn't want to I didn't want to play if it wasn't gonna be huge. That was my exact words, this is not gonna be huge. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do what I don't want to go back and do what we were doing before we decided to do that, before we broke, before we stopped playing, and everybody in that meeting was like, what's gonna be big. It's gonna be big. And then the day after that meeting, I was playing somewhere, uh and I flew into the place and I'm walking back to my dressing room and Rob Light, who is the CEO.
Of of c A, a head of music at the top yeah, see he still lives.
Well, yeah, he got promoted whatever it. Then let's talk get into the details.
He runs the show. He's one of the one of the guys who started CIA exactly. And uh, I'm walking to my I'm walking into my addressing room. Mate Rob's standing there, and I know Robin our friends, we beg friends, We've been there. You know golf, we have that golf thing that we'd love to do together. And he's standing there. I was like, oh man, you came. I was like, what are you doing here? Let's go alone to talk to you. And we went to the He had been dispatched to tell me this thing is going to be fucking huge, and they were right.
That King was huge. Billboard Magazine toward the year it was huge.
Why do you think it was huge?
People missed it, People missed us playing and it had been ten years since who they had been out And there was a lot of people when we stopped playing that came to see us every year. You know, we see a lot of the safe faces every year, and it was ten years without that, and the nostalgia, God, I want to experience that again kicked in and it was huge.
So going forward, how much, shooty, how much.
Solo from this point on? Yeah, this is probably my last thuty who blow for your store? I don't know if I'm going to do this again, so you know, just pretty much solo. I mean, you know, this has been such a great run and it's been fun. But you know, I'm almost sixty. I don't even know how much long I don't want to play, you know, so like I want to do I want to do country music for a while, for a long while.
And how many gigs a year have you been doing over the last ten years?
Fluctuations between saba D and one hundred and twenty? It could get you know, go like I think, who he's playing fifty or sixty? They shit here, so you know it, it fluctuates.
Okay, So what point in the hoodie career did you say I want to make a country record.
I would saying that since the late eighties, you know, since whody really started. You know, there was actually a moment when things kind of died down where I tried to talk to guys into making the country records, like let's just go and consciously make a country record, and nobody wanted to do it, you know, Okay, we'll just keep doing what we're doing.
Okay, just in this interim between you start your country career and you reunite with Hoodie, what is your relationship with the other three members.
Oh, we're brothers.
You know. When we see each other, it's great, you know. But when you stop playing, and as much as we were playing, you stop really hanging out a lot. You know, you call each other and play around the golf, you know, call each other and go have a beer or a beat. But but it wasn't like we were seeing each other every day, you know. But we were still in touch all the time. We were friends, like we're like brothers.
Okay, So you tell Doc you want to make a country record, and Doc says.
He really just said okay.
And I mean I made it clear to him that I wasn't looking for a record deal because I didn't think I could get a record deal the country music you know, the pop black guy cutting over the country music.
What label?
And I told him, if you're gonna get me a record with, if you're gonna get me a label with Joe Schmow Records or some indie label, I'd rather do it myself. I'd rather just get my buddies and go do it myself and just make it for me, you know. But you know Doc doesn't do things that way. You know, he does things like we said, you want to do it in the theater, and he does at the stadium. And a couple of weeks later he had been a record deal with Capitol Records.
And what was the experience of cutting the record?
Awesome? Right it and cutting was awesome. It was awesome, you know.
Frank Rogers, my producer, was wonderful, you know, playing Brad Hazy coming and singing all playing a single was awesome. Vince Gill coming in. You know, it was awesome to be a Nashville making that record, making a country a real country record. That was the one thing that that me and Frank really wanted to do. We wanted to make a country record and we did and it was one of my favorite experiences making the recorder.
Okay, the record is done. Do you think you're going to have a hit on the chart?
No, I did not think that.
I it was another one of the situations where I was hoping they would let me make a number one.
I hope it did well enough that I could make a number one, because.
You know, the rock pop guy coming over is so proud upon a Nashville.
I'm so proud upon him.
But more than that, I hadn't seen anybody that looked like be on the charts for twenty five years. You know, Charlie had been twenty five years since Charlie probably had his last hit. And there hadn't been anybody that had a top forty hit since, you know, And you know, talking to some folks and being told that they just never thought their audience would accept the black country sing.
You know, so I don't know what I I don't know.
If I didn't expect, I thought I might have a minor hit, you know, something that maybe cracks in top Floridian makes a little noise. But you know, once again, you know, Mike Doung in the Capitol said to me when he when he signed, when he went, I was the first meeting. Now I sided with him that if I gave him, if I gave him the record, he would give me a shot. And he worked and they worked their button butts off. They worked their butts off well.
In the book you talk about how you worked your buttle I did.
But you know that's of course I didn't. It's my record. If if I'm not gonna work it, why should anybody else? So what did you do for that first record? I went to one hundred and ten radio stations, No five days a week, going to two or three radio stations a day, five days a week. Went to one hundred and ten of those days, and it worked.
You know.
Okay, let's once again go a little more granular. You go in, you're selling. Okay, what is your pitch? How do you convince people? How do you get them on your team?
Oh? My pitch was simple, you know for me.
You know, you know Jimmy Harden who went with me a lot, and uh, you know, the label was really trying to get it. But when I talked to people, I said the same thing. You know, if you like the record, play it. If you don't, I understand. I wasn't. I wasn't in their bagging. I wasn't there going I'm Darius Rucker, who your blowfishes to play on record? You know, it wasn't anything like that. I was just, you know, glad to be in the room for a second, you know, and if you like it, play it.
If not, I understand.
But there was more than that. To what degree did you work your charm to try to make them feel good about you personally such that that would help to play the record. I didn't. That wasn't.
I just went in and that was me. I really was never in there trying to overly charm anybody or make anybody. It was just go in there and be yourself and be a nice guy that you are and talk to people. You know a lot of people like the Probably the only reason I got into a lot of those buildings is because of who need a bothish, you know, and so just go in and play the song that if they want you to sit in the conference room and play some songs for you know, play some songs for for the for the employees, you know, if you're lucky enough play play the song acoustically on the radio. You know, just just go in and be you and they like you, they'll play it. If they don't, they't.
And to what degree of you maintained relationships with the people of radio.
Oh, I so many guys like probably to do guys that uh that told me didn't think their audience would play you know, we'll accept a black sat or my best buddies, you know, And I'm still for I see folks all the time and friends with them, and you know, they they're they're you know, I think a lot of people are thankful, relieved and happy that that that there's you know, there's now radio start. You know, there's you get to see so many app more African Americans came brown and other guys having hits and stuff like that, and and it's just people are like, this is cool.
You know, this is good for cuntry, this is good for everybody.
What's the difference between being on Atlantic, a rock and roll label, and Capital and national and country label.
Capitol in Nashville really cares about me and will work their butt off and do anything for me.
And let the just use us. That's the difference. They just used us.
And how often will you interact with the people at Capital all the time all the time?
You know, you know, City Babe, the new president, we're ted. We text all the time with friends of all the time. All the people who work up there. We were friends.
And the world has changed and country music fans do stream. So to what degree have you fostered relationships with Spotify, Apple, Amazon?
I've got friends in all those places you know, you meet because you have to meet those fives. You've got to go in their offices and hang out and do all that. And you know, streaming is is so important. It's the new way that kids are getting music. And not even kids now, everybody's getting music. And so the cloth red relationships. And you know, I'm sure when they can help you, they can, they do, and they don't, you know they don't.
And to what degree are you Internet addicted TikTok, Instagram, Spotify or are you old school?
I'm kind of old school, but you know, I'll look at Instagram, I'll look at you know X, that's that's you know, those of those Some of those places are where I get my news. So yeah, you're going to read it. But uh, you know, I'm not big on going on.
I don't think.
I think I've been on TikTok three times in my life, you know, and I'm simple, I'm animals.
Okay, So the record goes to number one? Does that blow your mind?
Yes?
Yes, it brought tears to my eyes. I couldn't believe that. Uh that don't think. I don't think about that when number one it was the number one song country music.
It was. It was amazing.
And at what point do you feel you were embraced by the Nashville community.
I think when I was asked to join the Opry, it was the first time I really felt like I was part of Nashville, that was part of country music.
I got invited to join the Opry and that was just a great moment.
Tell us about that.
Uh, you know, when I came to Nashville, I stided told Doc I wanted to play the Opery as much as I could.
I wanted to play as much as they would let me, and I did.
And uh, you know, one day I was playing, and you know, Brad Paisey stood up in the audience and asked me if I wanted to be the news member of the Country I love the Grandal Opery, and I didn't believe it. I thought he was pranking me, you know, And it was just that moment where, you know, really that moment I really thought to myself, Wow, I made it.
You know, I'm in.
And the first album runs its course. How much pressure do you feel for the second album? Uh?
None, none, you know, because I had the team in place and I knew that capital was going to be there. They weren't going to abandon me. I knew all I had to do was make give given themselves, you know, And so we started working on that, and you know, it felt good to know that my label wasn't going to abandon me. They were in, we were going to do this. Let's do this.
And to what degree did your experience with HOODI in Atlanta inform your choices?
Uh? I?
Also I didn't think about I didn't think much about that when we were doing the country stuff because I felt like I was in such a different situation. You know, there was nobody. The guy who saw me was the president of the latter so I was in good hands. He was gonna he told me, you do, I will give you a shot. He gave me a shot, and I knew if I gave him another record, I was gonna get another shot. And so I didn't even think about the past. I was thinking about, you know, what are we gonna do now?
Okay, So Hoodie breaks. MTV is still a thing, The Internet is not a thing. Songs are bigger than they ever are today. You then have success into the twenty first century in country music when irrelevant of the record, the landscape is different. Do you find that people know your country music as well as your hoodie music?
Oh?
Absolutely absolutely when we see it doing the hoodie shows. Right now, we play wagon wild all right, he plays the rupts. You know, it's this this, It's so funny. There's people in the world that don't even know that I was a singarete who like it was probably goodness. It was not even a year ago. And this guy comes into my DMS and he asked me why I played somebody covers at my show And I said to him, man, I only played like two covers, maybe three.
What you talk about?
He said, well, you played all those hoodis must be a big he said, you must be a big fan of Like, dude, I'm the Bofish And he was like, no way, go believes it. And I mean and a lot of the younger kids are shots when they don't know that I'm that I'm the lead singer for the Bothfish, that all they know is that I'm Darius Country.
Say okay, and you're in the mailstream. You're an African American and a traditionally white medium. The main story in our world today is politics, red versus blue. What do you see, and is it possible to bring the country together, you.
Know, I hope it's possible to really cut together, because I think we're always we're always the best when where united, you know, like after nine to eleven, even though it was a brief time that that was great for the catch, how much we were all together. You know, everything right now so divisive. Everything's so divisive, and the politicians and the media seems to want to keep us that way because that way they all make more money, and they all you know, but uh, you know, I just wish people would realize at the end of the day, we're all just Americans, man, you know, and and we should we should be able to come together on some important stuff. But it just doesn't seem like it's gonna happen.
And because of the divided nation and being a prominent in country music, we have the bud Light situation, we have all the we have all these black and white not in terms of race, but some of them are issues. Does that make you reluctant to stand up or to make certain decisions to work with different people.
I'll work with anybody that doesn't.
I mean, I'm not going to not be friends with somebody or not work with somebody because they're politics.
Let me say different. Okay, Elon Musk, who has come out in support of Trump. If Elon he doesn't do advertising, but let's say he got a hold of you and wanted to tie you up with Tesla, you would say okay, or you would say wait, this is a dangerous subject.
I would say it's a dangerous subject.
You know.
I stay out of politics, man. I believe what I believe. I'm gonna do what I want to do.
And the sad part about politics for me right now is there was a time in American history where it was okay to say, I'm not gonna be friends with that guy because he's white. Well, I'm not gonna be friends with that guy because he's black. Well I'm not gonna be friends with her because he's a woman. I'm not gonna be friends with those And now it's like, I'm not gonna be friends with this person because they're conservaible. I'm not gonna be friends with this person because they're liberal. You know, for me, that's just bullshit. So I stay out of it. I stay out of it. Don't even want to talk about it. You know, it is I believe what I believe? You know, I hope the country can find a way to come together. But you know it's just so divisive.
So you would not endorse political candidate?
Uh?
I will?
I would say, I would say I would, though I never will. But it's like, you know, I'm not I'm not How do you say this? I am not eatistical enough or or narcissistic enough to think that I should be telling people how to vote. Everybody's got their own vote. There's enough stuff out there for you to decide how you want to vote. Why should I tell you? That's not something I've ever.
Wanted to do. Do you vote every here?
Okay? You live in Nashville. Now, what's the difference between Nashville and South Carolina?
Nothing? There both very red states.
Okay, So you ever take commercial transportation or only private?
I fly, yeah, fly plays all. I fly a commercial a long time.
Okay, you fly commercial? To what degree? Is do people know who you.
Are all the time all the time?
And is that a good thing or a bad thing?
It's a good thing. It's going to suck when people don't.
You know. The byproduct of success in my business is that so that means I don't have a success.
And as a result of your fame, you've met incredible people. Who have you met that? Who have you not met that you want to meet?
Oh goodness, who if I've not met that?
I want to be. Uh, that's a great question.
Oh good Every time I think it's not when I go, I think I met him. You know, the day I've met Paul McCartney was the day that everybody else can it doesn't matter. But the day I've bet alt greed, you know, the times I've got to hang out without greeding. You know, No, you know, I guess right now. If I had to think of one person I want to bet, I want to be Keith Richards and a Vic Tacker. I mean, I'd love to beat the guys with the stoves. How'd you meet Paul McCartney? Tell me about that he was having a show and I was taking my kids to Tampa to see the show, and uh, you know, we're I think we're under the same management group, Maverick. And I called Clarence and I said, Clarence, if you never do anything for me ever again, I'll be okay, But you have to get me to meet Paul McCartney and he did and I cried, yes when he walked away, I cried.
So a little bit slower because I've met Paul McCartney a few times. You know, meeting a celebrity, especially in a live performance thing is a very unique thing. How did it literally happen? And what was literally said?
Well, he doesn't do a great and so uh we were. They took us backstage and he was about he was when he what he done with this interaction was done. He walked straight to the stage and he comes out and he knew who I was with shock me, and you know, we had a conversation. I told him I wouldn't be doing this if it wasn't for him, and he was not important to me.
And we had.
A great conversation and took a picture and he had on the sergeant upper jacket that maybe lose my mind, and it was.
Just it was a beautiful thing.
It was like he was They tell you not to meet your idols, but it meeting him was damn, We're worth it.
He was. He was a gentleman. He was a great guy.
And did he say anything of dope, Oh, you know, he was about to go in.
So it wasn't like we had a deep conversation, right, you know, he was like, just keep playing music.
He was like, you know, I've heard some of your songs. I love him. I like what you do? You know, keep doing it. It was great.
And what about Al Greed? Oh it was great for me. I met Al a couple of times. And the second time I met out, I was doing this Al Greed tribute and he was there and we were backsaced talking and I had covered one of his songs about R and B record and he told me he really liked my version, and that was pretty awesome.
Okay, you have this autobiography. People said, I mean, there's not a week goes by that I don't get one of these books. And interestingly, Alan Eisenstock, who was your co writer, he's a personal friend, so that was kind of interesting. But what made you write this book? Now?
I was first, you know, I've been asked to write, you know, a memoir for for so long and I kept staying no, no, and no, and you know, they, to be honest with me, they came. They came like big dogs to get me to write it this time, you know, and I Ala said I wouldn't write it till my kids were old enough. We're adults, so they could, you know, deal with be telling the truth because I was going to tell the truth and they were adults and it was just okay. And actually, when Al and I started writing it, it was it was so therapeutic.
It was it was it was I'm so glad I did it.
And the funny thing about the book is I actually got hooked on the book about a quarter the way through and sat in the chair and finished it. The book is really a good read. What is your experience been since the book has come out?
It's amazing. You know.
Most people that have talked to me about it have said, you know, it feels like I'm sitting in a bar with you and me telling the story. And that's exactly what we wanted. We wanted to be like, you're sitting with a friend who's telling you the story in their lives, and you know, it's been amazing. I'm you know, I'm a New York Times bestselling author right now. Just saying that, you know, makes me want to giggle. You know, it was it was every interaction I've had to people who read it, even my friends, especially my friends or they're like, you know, I learned stuff that I had no idea about. And you know, every every interaction I've had about my book has been positive, and it's been really awesome.
So what is your everyday life like now? How book did or do you have any relaxation time where you just basically work at three hundred and sixty five days a year.
I work a lot. I work a lot to the point where I was I was pitching at my manager today because I don't work a lot. But uh, you know, I've got a happy life. You know, I got three wonderful kids, are adults that I get to see when there when their lives are too busy. And I got a wonderful girlfriend who I probably spend the rest of my life with, you know. And you know I live in a great neighborhood Nashville. I got a great place at Charleston. I'm on the road when I want to be on the road. You know, I was good.
I get to see my brothers and sisters all the time. I mean, life was just good.
Now, you were married for a good chunk of time and then you got divorced. To what degree did the job you have contribute to the end of that relationship.
I mean, especially the years we were together and where I was mentally. You know, I was you know, I was out there and I was partying and I was having a great time. And you know, totally, like I've said this before, that breakup was on me.
It was all me.
And you know, you know, through a lot of therapy and you know, a lot of soul searching and really a lot of giving up that lifestyle. You know, I've become a better person and I live a better life. But you know, sometimes things are just over. And so I would say my lifestyle and what I did for a living was one hundred percent reason for that.
And what will be different with this new girlfriend.
I'm not that guy anymore, you know, I really I'm a homebody now. I don't want to do you know, I don't want to do anything. So, you know, so I go work and I come home and don't play golf right you know, by but four minutes from where I live and I'm home. I don't want to go out drinking with you. Don't call me to go drinking because I'm not going to go. You know, you want to go to dinner. I go to sit and have dinner with even have a bottle of wine. But I'm going home and I don't want to go to the right door. I don't want to go. And like Louis, like I said, is your therapy? I've I've dealt with my devons and I'm still dealing with them and I've figured out a way to beat them.
How did you decide to go to therapy?
It was just, you know, I'd go into a couple of people, but then I found the right guy. And when you find the right person to talk to and talks back to you and gives you exercises of things to make you be a better person, you know, life gets a lot better.
So what is one thing that your therapist told you that help was helpful?
Goodness? It's a big things, you know. One thing that was huge for me was how he you know, to let let go on the guilt. You know, that was tough for me, you know the way I was raised and where I was.
I mean.
That was hard for me. But when I finally like go with the guilt, I became a better person.
And since you're a homebody, what do you do at home?
Like I said, I got a golf course four minutes from here that I play golf almost every day.
I went home.
I got two great dogs that are awesome. You know, I like to watch TV. I like to play video games. I like to jump in my pool. Yeah, I'm just you know, I've built a home that there's a lot of things I like to do, and so when I'm not on the road, they don't want to do.
Much in an.
Okay, Darius, thanks so much for taking this time and being so open and honest with my audience. I really appreciate it.
I think it was a great talking teacher, very great.
Talking Until next time. This is Bob left Sis
