I can't hear you.

I can't hear you.

What do we want?

What do we want?

Track?

Track?

When we want it? That is the sound of striking writers and actors. Our interns in New York City went out to ask some of them why they're on strike, what do they want? I'm a writer on strike. We are fighting for better contracts and better residuals for the writers and the actors. Now I'm here to fight for our equal for our pay that we should be getting, and so he may I out of writing rooms and out of offscreen.

When we want it? That is the sound of striking writers and actors. Our interns in New York City went out to ask some of them why they're on strike, what do they want? I'm a writer on strike. We are fighting for better contracts and better residuals for the writers and the actors. Now I'm here to fight for our equal for our pay that we should be getting, and so he may I out of writing rooms and out of offscreen.

I think a lot of people might be under the impression that the television and movie writers are all millionaires and living in mansions.

I think a lot of people might be under the impression that the television and movie writers are all millionaires and living in mansions.

But we're not.

But we're not.

We're middle class.

We're middle class.

People trying to pay uh our kids' tuitions, and pay our rent and pay our grocery bills, and it's been increasingly more challenging and difficult to do that.

People trying to pay uh our kids' tuitions, and pay our rent and pay our grocery bills, and it's been increasingly more challenging and difficult to do that.

I want to see a fair deal as soon as possible. It is absolutely appalling that they are not negotiating right now. I understand they had the sad contract to go through, the DJ contract to go through the fact the fact that they are not around the table right now is utterly disgusting.

I want to see a fair deal as soon as possible. It is absolutely appalling that they are not negotiating right now. I understand they had the sad contract to go through, the DJ contract to go through the fact the fact that they are not around the table right now is utterly disgusting.

If that last voice sounds familiar, it's because it's comedian John Oliver. He's the host of HBO's Last Week Tonight. That's one of the many shows that's gone dark for the strake. He was joining a picket line that has shown no signs of backing down. I'm West Kasova today on the Big Take. How long until Hollywood is back on set? Bloomberg's Lucas Shaw is back on the show to try to answer that question. Hey, Lucas, good to talk to you again.

If that last voice sounds familiar, it's because it's comedian John Oliver. He's the host of HBO's Last Week Tonight. That's one of the many shows that's gone dark for the strake. He was joining a picket line that has shown no signs of backing down. I'm West Kasova today on the Big Take. How long until Hollywood is back on set? Bloomberg's Lucas Shaw is back on the show to try to answer that question. Hey, Lucas, good to talk to you again.

Great to be back.

Great to be back.

So this writer strike has been going on for a long time. Are you surprised how long it's been going No.

So this writer strike has been going on for a long time. Are you surprised how long it's been going No.

Back in April, when the negotiations were nearing the point of breaking down, I predicted and just felt that it would last until October. It was just evident from talking to people on both sides as well as sort of third parties you know, agents, lawyers, intermediaries, representatives, that neither side was close. The negotiations were not particularly intense. It didn't seem like either side was really trying to make a deal. Though I don't think either sid wanted a strike. It began to feel inevitable, and honestly, it was described as inevitable even going back to last year. I think what has surprised people a little bit is nobody was sure what would happen that the actors would strike. And then also I think the tone, the tone of the strike has surprised some people, just because the guild has become, you know, very much like a normal labor union, kind of full of political activists, and so I think that's caught some of the studios off guard.

Back in April, when the negotiations were nearing the point of breaking down, I predicted and just felt that it would last until October. It was just evident from talking to people on both sides as well as sort of third parties you know, agents, lawyers, intermediaries, representatives, that neither side was close. The negotiations were not particularly intense. It didn't seem like either side was really trying to make a deal. Though I don't think either sid wanted a strike. It began to feel inevitable, and honestly, it was described as inevitable even going back to last year. I think what has surprised people a little bit is nobody was sure what would happen that the actors would strike. And then also I think the tone, the tone of the strike has surprised some people, just because the guild has become, you know, very much like a normal labor union, kind of full of political activists, and so I think that's caught some of the studios off guard.

You've called the strike Hollywood's greatest labor dispute in six decades. Has there been any movement in what the writers are demanding, what the studios want, versus kind of like what they first expected.

You've called the strike Hollywood's greatest labor dispute in six decades. Has there been any movement in what the writers are demanding, what the studios want, versus kind of like what they first expected.

There hasn't been huge movement. You know, when the writers first went on strike, they posted on social media sort of their proposals and what the studio said in response, and something sort of similar happened with the actors. The tricky part in this is there are some areas on which I think both sides sort of agree with what is on the table right, Like, one of the biggest disputes is writers would like there to be a minimum number of them who are in the writer's room working on the scripts for the show, which is something that studios are not going to agree to and they acknowledge that the writers have asked for it, and acknowledge that they've basically said no.

There hasn't been huge movement. You know, when the writers first went on strike, they posted on social media sort of their proposals and what the studio said in response, and something sort of similar happened with the actors. The tricky part in this is there are some areas on which I think both sides sort of agree with what is on the table right, Like, one of the biggest disputes is writers would like there to be a minimum number of them who are in the writer's room working on the scripts for the show, which is something that studios are not going to agree to and they acknowledge that the writers have asked for it, and acknowledge that they've basically said no.

Can you explain why that's so important for the writers? Like being in the room, it's.

Can you explain why that's so important for the writers? Like being in the room, it's.

The minimum part that's actually most important to them, because what has happened in streaming is that you have fewer episodes per season. You tend to have shorter shows in general, and that can be a reason to have fewer people in the room. There have also been some high profile examples of shows that are basically entirely written by one person. Writing has historically been as as Hollywood is as a lot of industries are sort of a job of apprenticeship where you sort of rise through the ranks and there's this gradual process whereby you get more and more senior, you get paid more and more money, and also you learn more skills. Streaming has upset this process a little bit one because in some cases the rooms are smaller. Also because of the way that they're shot. Oftentimes writers are no longer on set and that's something that they care about. And so a big aspect of this labor dispute has been writers and talent sort of wanting to go back to the way things were, and a lot of these media companies being like, there's no going backwards, where you know, this is the new reality. That's a big reason why it's been so hard to find common ground is because they're sort of fighting over really fundamental parts of the business. Money is obviously the most important thing in this dispute, but there are all these other factors that are kind of more systemic.

The minimum part that's actually most important to them, because what has happened in streaming is that you have fewer episodes per season. You tend to have shorter shows in general, and that can be a reason to have fewer people in the room. There have also been some high profile examples of shows that are basically entirely written by one person. Writing has historically been as as Hollywood is as a lot of industries are sort of a job of apprenticeship where you sort of rise through the ranks and there's this gradual process whereby you get more and more senior, you get paid more and more money, and also you learn more skills. Streaming has upset this process a little bit one because in some cases the rooms are smaller. Also because of the way that they're shot. Oftentimes writers are no longer on set and that's something that they care about. And so a big aspect of this labor dispute has been writers and talent sort of wanting to go back to the way things were, and a lot of these media companies being like, there's no going backwards, where you know, this is the new reality. That's a big reason why it's been so hard to find common ground is because they're sort of fighting over really fundamental parts of the business. Money is obviously the most important thing in this dispute, but there are all these other factors that are kind of more systemic.

So why has money become such a big problem. Is it that shows just aren't as profitable as they once were.

So why has money become such a big problem. Is it that shows just aren't as profitable as they once were.

Well, the film and television industry, and in particular the television industry, is going through sort of a massive generational shift where for the past many decades, TV meant channels delivered via cable and satellite providers that were live and that all had ads, and it was a system that grew over time. Obviously, we went from having a couple of broadcast networks having this full cable system, but it was still TV and streaming as upset that business model. You know, Cable TV was hugely profitable for all these media companies, and it was very lucrative as a result for many writers because you had a show that started on CBS or NBC, and then if you had the right show, it got syndicated, and there were all sorts of protections in place, and just streaming has upset many of those conventions. Now there's more shows being made than ever before. You know, there are more jobs, more people working. The paydays for people at the top can still be incredibly lucrative, and so that seems like a very good thing. It seems like people wouldn't be upset. But because cable TV is collapsing, you have a lot of pressure on costs in some of these places where folks are getting paid a little bit less because the conventions of streaming are different. There's more inequality, more haves and have nots to. People at the top are still getting paid quite a bit, but the protections for the people in the middle and lower classes are not the same. And also we're just we're sort of in the middle of this transition, and so there are folks who are upset and feel that they're not getting paid enough and they want certain protections. But it really boils down to like streaming has changed the economics of the business, and so the unions are just trying to make sure that they capture enough of that upside.

Well, the film and television industry, and in particular the television industry, is going through sort of a massive generational shift where for the past many decades, TV meant channels delivered via cable and satellite providers that were live and that all had ads, and it was a system that grew over time. Obviously, we went from having a couple of broadcast networks having this full cable system, but it was still TV and streaming as upset that business model. You know, Cable TV was hugely profitable for all these media companies, and it was very lucrative as a result for many writers because you had a show that started on CBS or NBC, and then if you had the right show, it got syndicated, and there were all sorts of protections in place, and just streaming has upset many of those conventions. Now there's more shows being made than ever before. You know, there are more jobs, more people working. The paydays for people at the top can still be incredibly lucrative, and so that seems like a very good thing. It seems like people wouldn't be upset. But because cable TV is collapsing, you have a lot of pressure on costs in some of these places where folks are getting paid a little bit less because the conventions of streaming are different. There's more inequality, more haves and have nots to. People at the top are still getting paid quite a bit, but the protections for the people in the middle and lower classes are not the same. And also we're just we're sort of in the middle of this transition, and so there are folks who are upset and feel that they're not getting paid enough and they want certain protections. But it really boils down to like streaming has changed the economics of the business, and so the unions are just trying to make sure that they capture enough of that upside.

And one of the results of these cost pressures that you write about is something kind of unexpected, and that's this concern among the writers that artificial intelligence is more and more coming for their jobs.

And one of the results of these cost pressures that you write about is something kind of unexpected, and that's this concern among the writers that artificial intelligence is more and more coming for their jobs.

Yeah. I mean, that was not a subject that I think either studios or writers or actors anticipated would be a major part of this labor dispute six months ago. But much as we as a society have started talking about artificial intelligence a lot more, many industries have started talking about it, it has come to Hollywood as well, and it's really an existential question for a lot of these folks.

Yeah. I mean, that was not a subject that I think either studios or writers or actors anticipated would be a major part of this labor dispute six months ago. But much as we as a society have started talking about artificial intelligence a lot more, many industries have started talking about it, it has come to Hollywood as well, and it's really an existential question for a lot of these folks.

You know.

You know.

I think it's easy for some of us to say, oh, well, of course you're going to like automate a manufacturing job in a factory. But when it's like, oh, you're going to replace a writer or an actor with a computer algorithm or a large language model, and all of a sudden, feels different. It's like a high skilled job, and so lawyers and journalists and everybody freaks out. But you know, I think some of the concerns over artificial intelligence are probably a little overblown or at least premature. You know, nobody thinks that you're going to have a chat shept write a script right now, right Like, no studio chief or executive that I talk to says that they're even contemplating that. But we are already starting to see parts of the production ecosystem where AI is being used, and that's very scary for people and they want protections against it, which I think is totally rational.

I think it's easy for some of us to say, oh, well, of course you're going to like automate a manufacturing job in a factory. But when it's like, oh, you're going to replace a writer or an actor with a computer algorithm or a large language model, and all of a sudden, feels different. It's like a high skilled job, and so lawyers and journalists and everybody freaks out. But you know, I think some of the concerns over artificial intelligence are probably a little overblown or at least premature. You know, nobody thinks that you're going to have a chat shept write a script right now, right Like, no studio chief or executive that I talk to says that they're even contemplating that. But we are already starting to see parts of the production ecosystem where AI is being used, and that's very scary for people and they want protections against it, which I think is totally rational.

So what do the writers tell you about what their concerns are. If no one really thinks that, like you say, chat GBT is going to write a script, what do they fear?

So what do the writers tell you about what their concerns are. If no one really thinks that, like you say, chat GBT is going to write a script, what do they fear?

Well, I think there are some writers who fear that, or at least think you know, we were talking about the minimum number of writers in a writer's room. There's a concern that if you can have chat shept come up with an idea or work on certain things, maybe the number of writers in the room goes from six to four. There is concern that if studios use chat GPT to come up with an idea, maybe not write the thing, but like come up with basically a crappy first draft. Writers often get paid less when something is adapted as opposed to original, and so they would get paid less if you use chat GPT to do that there are ways in which it is something of a threat. I just don't think that it's going to fully replace them. And the other one to keep in mind, of course, is you know, these models learn how to write or spit out images because they get trained on things, and so they can get trained on a bunch of scripts. If they don't get trained on scripts, they don't know how to write a script. And so writers want to make sure. We're asking studios to sort of protect this IP. Now that's tricky because in most cases writers don't own the script. The studio owns the script, and so one of the things that they have to negotiate, and I think they should be aligned on this is the studios want to be sure that these companies are paying them or licensing them so that models don't get trained on all these scripts for free and know one benefits from it.

Well, I think there are some writers who fear that, or at least think you know, we were talking about the minimum number of writers in a writer's room. There's a concern that if you can have chat shept come up with an idea or work on certain things, maybe the number of writers in the room goes from six to four. There is concern that if studios use chat GPT to come up with an idea, maybe not write the thing, but like come up with basically a crappy first draft. Writers often get paid less when something is adapted as opposed to original, and so they would get paid less if you use chat GPT to do that there are ways in which it is something of a threat. I just don't think that it's going to fully replace them. And the other one to keep in mind, of course, is you know, these models learn how to write or spit out images because they get trained on things, and so they can get trained on a bunch of scripts. If they don't get trained on scripts, they don't know how to write a script. And so writers want to make sure. We're asking studios to sort of protect this IP. Now that's tricky because in most cases writers don't own the script. The studio owns the script, and so one of the things that they have to negotiate, and I think they should be aligned on this is the studios want to be sure that these companies are paying them or licensing them so that models don't get trained on all these scripts for free and know one benefits from it.

Even though these models aren't being used right now to write scripts, you do write that Hollywood does use AI in a whole bunch of different ways.

Even though these models aren't being used right now to write scripts, you do write that Hollywood does use AI in a whole bunch of different ways.

The primary ways that AI is being used right now, I would say relate to kind of post production, which is what happens after you're on set and shoot the project, so you can use AI to you know, affect someone the way someone's mouth moves or speech. So for example, you know, I interviewed a director who also co founded an AI company, and they made a movie where they needed to do reshoots, and one of the things that they wanted to do was they wanted the movie to get a PG thirteen rating instead of an R rating, and they used the F word too much in it, so they went back in and using AI changed a bunch of the F word into a different, more polite F word. I'm not sure I'm allowed to curse on this podcast, so I'm not going to use the difference, and that made them go from an ART rating to a PG thirteen rating, and the reshoots in general, using AI to do it save them a bunch of money because maybe you don't have to go back to set if you have captured someone's performance in one place and can move them or change what they're saying. There's I think some optimism, but also some concern in terms of job replacement, that it could be used to replace a lot of dubbing. For example, when you have voice actors come in and perform a project or perform an actor's dialogue in another language. That's something where the AI is maybe not quite good enough to do it yet, but they're definitely testing it out and seeing if we can get there.

The primary ways that AI is being used right now, I would say relate to kind of post production, which is what happens after you're on set and shoot the project, so you can use AI to you know, affect someone the way someone's mouth moves or speech. So for example, you know, I interviewed a director who also co founded an AI company, and they made a movie where they needed to do reshoots, and one of the things that they wanted to do was they wanted the movie to get a PG thirteen rating instead of an R rating, and they used the F word too much in it, so they went back in and using AI changed a bunch of the F word into a different, more polite F word. I'm not sure I'm allowed to curse on this podcast, so I'm not going to use the difference, and that made them go from an ART rating to a PG thirteen rating, and the reshoots in general, using AI to do it save them a bunch of money because maybe you don't have to go back to set if you have captured someone's performance in one place and can move them or change what they're saying. There's I think some optimism, but also some concern in terms of job replacement, that it could be used to replace a lot of dubbing. For example, when you have voice actors come in and perform a project or perform an actor's dialogue in another language. That's something where the AI is maybe not quite good enough to do it yet, but they're definitely testing it out and seeing if we can get there.

But you also write just about that that they're now able to make it look like the lips of the actors are actually speaking that language. Yeah.

But you also write just about that that they're now able to make it look like the lips of the actors are actually speaking that language. Yeah.

Well, one of the problems with dubbing is that the movement of the lips do not tend to match the words, and so at least these AI companies say they can make the lips more accurately match the words. I haven't seen it happen in a bunch of cases, and my guess is that it's still imperfect, but I could see a world in which they can make those match and sync up better.

Well, one of the problems with dubbing is that the movement of the lips do not tend to match the words, and so at least these AI companies say they can make the lips more accurately match the words. I haven't seen it happen in a bunch of cases, and my guess is that it's still imperfect, but I could see a world in which they can make those match and sync up better.

After the break? Why actors are so afraid of AI? So, Lucas, we've most have been talking about the writers, but as you said, at the beginning, people didn't expect the actors to join in. How has that changed the nature of the strike.

After the break? Why actors are so afraid of AI? So, Lucas, we've most have been talking about the writers, but as you said, at the beginning, people didn't expect the actors to join in. How has that changed the nature of the strike.

Pu's made it a lot louder, that's for sure. The actors' union is much larger than the writers' union. They are all performers, and so they are you know, there were the writers were already on the picket lines outside of studios every day, protesting, marching, chanting, and now you've got hundreds thousands of actors who've joined them in Los Angeles and New York. Also, actors obviously have a very big following, and so they can bring more public attention to it as far as the business, as far as what people see. I mean, it means actors who are striking cannot promote projects, and so you have movies come out that actors cannot. You're not going to go on the morning show, they're not going to be on social media. It's led studios to delay some movies in part because they're at stars can't promote it, or in some cases because some of the work on it wasn't done. You know, the writer's work, especially on movies is frontloaded the beginning, but the actors are there in the middle of production and then also often in post production doing something called adr different things to kind of clean up some of the speech in it in other aspects of the project. And so the actors strike has had i'd say i will have a more immediate impact on what gets released.

Pu's made it a lot louder, that's for sure. The actors' union is much larger than the writers' union. They are all performers, and so they are you know, there were the writers were already on the picket lines outside of studios every day, protesting, marching, chanting, and now you've got hundreds thousands of actors who've joined them in Los Angeles and New York. Also, actors obviously have a very big following, and so they can bring more public attention to it as far as the business, as far as what people see. I mean, it means actors who are striking cannot promote projects, and so you have movies come out that actors cannot. You're not going to go on the morning show, they're not going to be on social media. It's led studios to delay some movies in part because they're at stars can't promote it, or in some cases because some of the work on it wasn't done. You know, the writer's work, especially on movies is frontloaded the beginning, but the actors are there in the middle of production and then also often in post production doing something called adr different things to kind of clean up some of the speech in it in other aspects of the project. And so the actors strike has had i'd say i will have a more immediate impact on what gets released.

And the actors too have voiced their own concerns about AI and how their own likenesses could be used without them participating.

And the actors too have voiced their own concerns about AI and how their own likenesses could be used without them participating.

Yeah, because studios want to and many already do this thing where they like, they kind of scan an actor, so they essentially have a digital replica of them that they can use. You know, Let's say the actor dies during the production of a movie, as Paul Walker did during one of the Fast and Furious movies, they can, you know, find a way to replicate them. When that happened with Paul Walker, Universal had to use Paul Walker's brother as like a virtual stand in for him. Studios already use some of this technology to sort of adjust ages. You know, in the new Indiana Jones movie Harrison Ford, they make him look younger.

Yeah, because studios want to and many already do this thing where they like, they kind of scan an actor, so they essentially have a digital replica of them that they can use. You know, Let's say the actor dies during the production of a movie, as Paul Walker did during one of the Fast and Furious movies, they can, you know, find a way to replicate them. When that happened with Paul Walker, Universal had to use Paul Walker's brother as like a virtual stand in for him. Studios already use some of this technology to sort of adjust ages. You know, in the new Indiana Jones movie Harrison Ford, they make him look younger.

Methodology use footage me from forty years ago that was in the vaults of Lucasfilm.

Methodology use footage me from forty years ago that was in the vaults of Lucasfilm.

It's very very effective.

It's very very effective.

There's a movie coming out next year with Tom Hanks where they make them look both older and younger. Now that all happens with the actors consent, and that's one of the big things that the actors are concerned about is they're not opposed to the use of artificial intelligence. They just want to make sure that studios ask for their consent and compensate them when they are used, and there are some concerns about how the studios might sort of alter their performance or alter what they say, or use generative AI, in which case maybe they'd use a bunch of actress performances to create like a synthetic character, like someone who's purely virtual but based on someone else's being.

There's a movie coming out next year with Tom Hanks where they make them look both older and younger. Now that all happens with the actors consent, and that's one of the big things that the actors are concerned about is they're not opposed to the use of artificial intelligence. They just want to make sure that studios ask for their consent and compensate them when they are used, and there are some concerns about how the studios might sort of alter their performance or alter what they say, or use generative AI, in which case maybe they'd use a bunch of actress performances to create like a synthetic character, like someone who's purely virtual but based on someone else's being.

I got to pose you for a second and ask about this scanning of actors. So if you're in a movie now, they actually take a scan of your body to recreate it.

I got to pose you for a second and ask about this scanning of actors. So if you're in a movie now, they actually take a scan of your body to recreate it.

My understanding is that a lot of studios with certain projects will basically take a digital scan of an actor so that they sort of have that in the bank that they can use because you you know, think about how much CGI is already used. You might want to slightly adjust someone's body in that frame.

My understanding is that a lot of studios with certain projects will basically take a digital scan of an actor so that they sort of have that in the bank that they can use because you you know, think about how much CGI is already used. You might want to slightly adjust someone's body in that frame.

I guess another aspect too, is that now the actors are trying to have these clauses in their contracts about how their likenesses can be used in the future.

I guess another aspect too, is that now the actors are trying to have these clauses in their contracts about how their likenesses can be used in the future.

Yeah. I mean, look, a lot of people believe that there's an existing right to publicity in certain use of name, image and likeness, which is a term that we talk about a lot and say college sports and those athletes right now is that it pertains to video games. But yeah, actors are, especially with the proliferation of AI models and tools, are very concerned with ensuring that they have the right over what they say and what they do in movies. You know, there are examples now going back many years. I think I heard about one that was like twenty years ago where they created a tear an actor's face that they where they didn't actually cry during the production, and this was like a huge scandal. I mean, these are actors. They're very sensitive to how they're portrayed. And obviously, in the case of any movie, the directors or the ultimate arbiter, but the actor doesn't want them to be able to kind of really change their performance in a significant way without their approval.

Yeah. I mean, look, a lot of people believe that there's an existing right to publicity in certain use of name, image and likeness, which is a term that we talk about a lot and say college sports and those athletes right now is that it pertains to video games. But yeah, actors are, especially with the proliferation of AI models and tools, are very concerned with ensuring that they have the right over what they say and what they do in movies. You know, there are examples now going back many years. I think I heard about one that was like twenty years ago where they created a tear an actor's face that they where they didn't actually cry during the production, and this was like a huge scandal. I mean, these are actors. They're very sensitive to how they're portrayed. And obviously, in the case of any movie, the directors or the ultimate arbiter, but the actor doesn't want them to be able to kind of really change their performance in a significant way without their approval.

Yeah, so I guess, like you say, it's all about permissions. I think I read recently that James Earl Jones has given permission for him to be Darth Vader long after he's no longer on the earth.

Yeah, so I guess, like you say, it's all about permissions. I think I read recently that James Earl Jones has given permission for him to be Darth Vader long after he's no longer on the earth.

Yes, James Earl Jones will forever be Darth Vader.

Yes, James Earl Jones will forever be Darth Vader.

You do not get the aligned or in polties. You have only begun to discover your power join me and I will compete.

You do not get the aligned or in polties. You have only begun to discover your power join me and I will compete.

That's an example to me of the upside in AI. Now, maybe it's kind of bad because you know, going forward, that means that you're not gonna it will limit a job for someone else, because you're essentially gonna have a dead person in this job forever. But he's known for that role. I think people would feel weird if there were a different voice in Darth Vader, and you know, and that's a lot of money, presumably for him and for his family. I will I would be curious how it is, because I was actually recently watching as a documentary about the basketball player Wilt Chamberlain on Showtime and they recreate his voice and have him talk throughout the documentary using his voice. And weirdly enough, I know Wilt Chamberlain because my dad wrote a book about him, and that voice is not what Wilt sounded like.

That's an example to me of the upside in AI. Now, maybe it's kind of bad because you know, going forward, that means that you're not gonna it will limit a job for someone else, because you're essentially gonna have a dead person in this job forever. But he's known for that role. I think people would feel weird if there were a different voice in Darth Vader, and you know, and that's a lot of money, presumably for him and for his family. I will I would be curious how it is, because I was actually recently watching as a documentary about the basketball player Wilt Chamberlain on Showtime and they recreate his voice and have him talk throughout the documentary using his voice. And weirdly enough, I know Wilt Chamberlain because my dad wrote a book about him, and that voice is not what Wilt sounded like.

My guess is, you have certain preconceptions about me.

My guess is, you have certain preconceptions about me.

My guess is too.

My guess is too.

That you're wrong, and so I assume that's something that they need to keep working on and improve.

That you're wrong, and so I assume that's something that they need to keep working on and improve.

You mentioned this new movie coming out with Tom Hanks called Here, and you had written that this is going to be a test case for the merits of AI technology and movies. Can you tell us more about this movie?

You mentioned this new movie coming out with Tom Hanks called Here, and you had written that this is going to be a test case for the merits of AI technology and movies. Can you tell us more about this movie?

Yeah, it's directed by Robert Simchis, one of the most famous directors in modern Hollywood. He and Tom Hanks worked together on the movie Castaway, among others. And it's a movie that all takes place in one location over many generations, and so you're going to see sort of the same performers at a bunch of different ages. And Robert Semechis and the company that produced the movie worked with this company called Metaphysic to essentially dage and age up Tom Hanks in it. And Metaphysic is a pretty interesting company that sort of started in a lot of ways with this deep fake of the actor Tom Cruise. You know, there's this actor named Miles Fisher who looks a lot like Tom Cruise, and he worked with a technologist to create a deep fake whereby their sort of rendered Tom Cruise's face onto him, and he performed as Tom Cruise doing all sorts of things, you know, licking a lollipop, just living day to day life. And many of these clips went viral on social media and that led them to partner with a few other people and build a whole company within the world of AI. I think most people agree that AI is sort of a tool, you know, not a great replacement. But there are some people who think that it's going to make adjustments to film and television and society sort of on the margins or in ways that eventually we will deem sort of imperceptible. You know, we don't like think necessarily about how much CGI is in every movie. There are other people who think that AI is going to change absolutely everything, and I would say metaphysic. At least one of the CEO of it, Tom Graham, falls into that camp. He told me that in ten years, all photo and video will be AI generated. Now I'm personally quite skeptical of that, but you know, you got to give him credit for being a true believer.

Yeah, it's directed by Robert Simchis, one of the most famous directors in modern Hollywood. He and Tom Hanks worked together on the movie Castaway, among others. And it's a movie that all takes place in one location over many generations, and so you're going to see sort of the same performers at a bunch of different ages. And Robert Semechis and the company that produced the movie worked with this company called Metaphysic to essentially dage and age up Tom Hanks in it. And Metaphysic is a pretty interesting company that sort of started in a lot of ways with this deep fake of the actor Tom Cruise. You know, there's this actor named Miles Fisher who looks a lot like Tom Cruise, and he worked with a technologist to create a deep fake whereby their sort of rendered Tom Cruise's face onto him, and he performed as Tom Cruise doing all sorts of things, you know, licking a lollipop, just living day to day life. And many of these clips went viral on social media and that led them to partner with a few other people and build a whole company within the world of AI. I think most people agree that AI is sort of a tool, you know, not a great replacement. But there are some people who think that it's going to make adjustments to film and television and society sort of on the margins or in ways that eventually we will deem sort of imperceptible. You know, we don't like think necessarily about how much CGI is in every movie. There are other people who think that AI is going to change absolutely everything, and I would say metaphysic. At least one of the CEO of it, Tom Graham, falls into that camp. He told me that in ten years, all photo and video will be AI generated. Now I'm personally quite skeptical of that, but you know, you got to give him credit for being a true believer.

When we come back, if this strike keeps going, will there be anything new to watch? Our interns went out and asked people in New York City how they'd feel if an AI bot was writing the script to their favorite show. I would be open to that.

When we come back, if this strike keeps going, will there be anything new to watch? Our interns went out and asked people in New York City how they'd feel if an AI bot was writing the script to their favorite show. I would be open to that.

I think it would make it more creative, It would put a spin that most people Publab would just naturally think of.

I think it would make it more creative, It would put a spin that most people Publab would just naturally think of.

No, I'm real scared about that really scared about that.

No, I'm real scared about that really scared about that.

No, no way, no way.

No, no way, no way.

Humans are so creative and diverse.

Humans are so creative and diverse.

I would still need to know what they think or how they see something, you know, how they see other humans interact with each other on screen.

I would still need to know what they think or how they see something, you know, how they see other humans interact with each other on screen.

That will be a game changer for just like the industry in general.

That will be a game changer for just like the industry in general.

I think everybody would just look at it differently.

I think everybody would just look at it differently.

I guess I think.

I guess I think.

That it could be a good thing, it could be a bad thing.

That it could be a good thing, it could be a bad thing.

So we're now months into this strike. We've got writers, we've got actors. You said earlier that no one was showing any signs of wanting to compromise. How long do you think this goes before we start to see some kind of progress.

So we're now months into this strike. We've got writers, we've got actors. You said earlier that no one was showing any signs of wanting to compromise. How long do you think this goes before we start to see some kind of progress.

I'm sticking with there will be progress in the fall. Normally, when you have a labor dispute, you think the side sort of want to resolve it as quickly as possible. Hollywood fits in this weird bucket where you hear things like, well, nobody's going to want to work in August, so they're not going to resolve it then, or if they don't resolve it in September and October, nobody's gonna want to work over the holiday, so it'll kick into next year, which is just absurd, but it speaks to the fact that one a lot of the members of these unions. You either have a very slim number of the people at the top who make so much money they don't care that much, or you have the large, massive people who for the most part have other jobs. Because Hollywood has a lot of sort of gig workers, right like, you're on set or you have a gig, but then you're not for a while, and so you need another way to pay the bills. And then these studios, which certainly feel the pressure, but a lot of them have a bunch of programming stored up. A lot of them have contracts with PayTV distributors that mean that they'll get paid whether there's new programming or reruns. They have deep libraries. So I'm hoping for progress in the fall, just because if there's not some progress in the fall, there's not going to be a lot to watch next year. You know, we're already starting to see the summer movie season for next year impacted. There's no shortage of new shows on streaming services. But if they can't get back into production by the fall, there will be next year. And there already isn't going to be you know, a traditional fall TV season, so instead you're going to see international shows and reruns and longer versions of reality and sports.

I'm sticking with there will be progress in the fall. Normally, when you have a labor dispute, you think the side sort of want to resolve it as quickly as possible. Hollywood fits in this weird bucket where you hear things like, well, nobody's going to want to work in August, so they're not going to resolve it then, or if they don't resolve it in September and October, nobody's gonna want to work over the holiday, so it'll kick into next year, which is just absurd, but it speaks to the fact that one a lot of the members of these unions. You either have a very slim number of the people at the top who make so much money they don't care that much, or you have the large, massive people who for the most part have other jobs. Because Hollywood has a lot of sort of gig workers, right like, you're on set or you have a gig, but then you're not for a while, and so you need another way to pay the bills. And then these studios, which certainly feel the pressure, but a lot of them have a bunch of programming stored up. A lot of them have contracts with PayTV distributors that mean that they'll get paid whether there's new programming or reruns. They have deep libraries. So I'm hoping for progress in the fall, just because if there's not some progress in the fall, there's not going to be a lot to watch next year. You know, we're already starting to see the summer movie season for next year impacted. There's no shortage of new shows on streaming services. But if they can't get back into production by the fall, there will be next year. And there already isn't going to be you know, a traditional fall TV season, so instead you're going to see international shows and reruns and longer versions of reality and sports.

Of course, since the studios are under so many costs pressures because they're not as profitable anymore, will they be able to meet the demands that the writers want more money? Like where would that money come from?

Of course, since the studios are under so many costs pressures because they're not as profitable anymore, will they be able to meet the demands that the writers want more money? Like where would that money come from?

I think they can definitely meet some of the demands, right We're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars across many companies that generate billions of dollars in revenue a year. It's just a question of how much, right, So, if the studios are willing to give a five percent increase on something and the writers want an eleven percent increase, they're going to have to meet somewhere in the middle. But is the middle six? Is it eight? Is it nine? Don't know. There are other subjects where I think the unions have asked for things that most people I talk to an entertainment agree just aren't going to happen right, Like this, the actors have asked for a two percent share of all streaming revenue because they want to be paid in success. That's just not going to happen that like that. That's never happened in Hollywood, and it doesn't really make a lot of sense. But is there some way that the studios can agree to give the talent, you know, more profit, a larger share of quote unquote success.

I think they can definitely meet some of the demands, right We're talking about hundreds of millions of dollars across many companies that generate billions of dollars in revenue a year. It's just a question of how much, right, So, if the studios are willing to give a five percent increase on something and the writers want an eleven percent increase, they're going to have to meet somewhere in the middle. But is the middle six? Is it eight? Is it nine? Don't know. There are other subjects where I think the unions have asked for things that most people I talk to an entertainment agree just aren't going to happen right, Like this, the actors have asked for a two percent share of all streaming revenue because they want to be paid in success. That's just not going to happen that like that. That's never happened in Hollywood, and it doesn't really make a lot of sense. But is there some way that the studios can agree to give the talent, you know, more profit, a larger share of quote unquote success.

You mentioned that actors aren't able to promote their projects. We have two huge projects out now, you know, the Barbie movie and the Oppenheimer movie. Have they been affected in the publicity? Obviously the box office numbers for those movies are off the charts.

You mentioned that actors aren't able to promote their projects. We have two huge projects out now, you know, the Barbie movie and the Oppenheimer movie. Have they been affected in the publicity? Obviously the box office numbers for those movies are off the charts.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean the good news for those projects is that the actors strike only started like a week before those movies came out. So in the case of Barbie in particular, that was a month's long marketing assault on everyone that was very effective. And so did it hurt a little bit maybe at the end that you couldn't have Margot Robbiat there, or that with Oppenheimer all of a sudden, all the stars and it had to go away. Sure, But I don't think it impacted them because they had done most of the marketing already and there was just sort of this ground fell of support where it would impact it. For example, there's a you know, a movie coming out later this year, The Dune to the sequel to the movie from a couple of years ago. You know, that's got Timothy Shallomey, it's got Zendeya. You'd really want them on the red carpet. You'd want clips of them charming going viral on social media. That's not going to happen, and so Warner Brothers has to decide how much does that matter? Do we still want to release this project or not.

I mean the good news for those projects is that the actors strike only started like a week before those movies came out. So in the case of Barbie in particular, that was a month's long marketing assault on everyone that was very effective. And so did it hurt a little bit maybe at the end that you couldn't have Margot Robbiat there, or that with Oppenheimer all of a sudden, all the stars and it had to go away. Sure, But I don't think it impacted them because they had done most of the marketing already and there was just sort of this ground fell of support where it would impact it. For example, there's a you know, a movie coming out later this year, The Dune to the sequel to the movie from a couple of years ago. You know, that's got Timothy Shallomey, it's got Zendeya. You'd really want them on the red carpet. You'd want clips of them charming going viral on social media. That's not going to happen, and so Warner Brothers has to decide how much does that matter? Do we still want to release this project or not.

When we last talked about TV in the fall, you had said that one of the great things about streaming is that it showcases so many foreign shows that people weren't able to watch before, and you were really excited about so many South Korean shows. Do you think that this is going to be an opportunity for people to be introduced to all kinds of shows they otherwise wouldn't have watched because there's nothing else to see.

When we last talked about TV in the fall, you had said that one of the great things about streaming is that it showcases so many foreign shows that people weren't able to watch before, and you were really excited about so many South Korean shows. Do you think that this is going to be an opportunity for people to be introduced to all kinds of shows they otherwise wouldn't have watched because there's nothing else to see.

It's a subject of frequent conversation, I would say, at least in our newsroom, it's definitely possible. You've even seen some broadcast networks that have shows based on projects from other countries that in the fall are bringing those shows to the US because they figure, well, if you like this, you can see this other thing that's based on I don't know how much of that you'll see. I think it's one of the reasons why Netflix is in a slightly better position than most because they've invested so much. They have a pipeline. But getting projects up and running and then filming them and then releasing them take time. So it's not like Disney can just go, Okay, we're not going to have movies and TV shows for a little bit, so like, let's go to Europe and make a bunch of shows. By the time those projects are ready, the strike will be over. Maybe it helps tide them over a little bit, but it's only so effective.

It's a subject of frequent conversation, I would say, at least in our newsroom, it's definitely possible. You've even seen some broadcast networks that have shows based on projects from other countries that in the fall are bringing those shows to the US because they figure, well, if you like this, you can see this other thing that's based on I don't know how much of that you'll see. I think it's one of the reasons why Netflix is in a slightly better position than most because they've invested so much. They have a pipeline. But getting projects up and running and then filming them and then releasing them take time. So it's not like Disney can just go, Okay, we're not going to have movies and TV shows for a little bit, so like, let's go to Europe and make a bunch of shows. By the time those projects are ready, the strike will be over. Maybe it helps tide them over a little bit, but it's only so effective.

Some actors, notably Mark Ruffalo, have been coming out and saying we should use this as an opportunity to kind of bust the studio system and go independent. Is that a realistic thing.

Some actors, notably Mark Ruffalo, have been coming out and saying we should use this as an opportunity to kind of bust the studio system and go independent. Is that a realistic thing.

No.

No.

Artists have tried to take the power back many times before. It's never really worked. Part of it is because artists want to be artists, they don't often want to run companies. And part of it is also these studios are sitting on massive libraries and amounts of capital, and that just gives them a lot of advantages.

Artists have tried to take the power back many times before. It's never really worked. Part of it is because artists want to be artists, they don't often want to run companies. And part of it is also these studios are sitting on massive libraries and amounts of capital, and that just gives them a lot of advantages.

So ultimately, Lucas, when all this is over and everyone gets back to work, does it make things better? Like for viewers, are we going to have a better viewing experience having gone through this.

So ultimately, Lucas, when all this is over and everyone gets back to work, does it make things better? Like for viewers, are we going to have a better viewing experience having gone through this.

I don't know that it impacts the average person all that much, which is why it can sometimes be hard to get them to care. I would say that if it produces a system where there is more incentive to be sensitive to cost and quality, that would benefit viewers. I think one of the problems in streaming is that we don't have as consistent and reliable judgments of what is and isn't working. And there's been so much produced that I think a lot of what gets made is like ten to twenty percent worse than it should be if there were there was just a little more care.

I don't know that it impacts the average person all that much, which is why it can sometimes be hard to get them to care. I would say that if it produces a system where there is more incentive to be sensitive to cost and quality, that would benefit viewers. I think one of the problems in streaming is that we don't have as consistent and reliable judgments of what is and isn't working. And there's been so much produced that I think a lot of what gets made is like ten to twenty percent worse than it should be if there were there was just a little more care.

Going into everything.

Going into everything.

But I think that would be good.

But I think that would be good.

Lucas, thanks for coming on the show, Thanks for having me, Thanks for listening to us here at the Big Take. It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more shows from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen, and we'd love to hear from you. Email us questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg dot Net. The supervising producer of The Big Take is Vicky Bergolina. Our senior producer is Catherine Fink, and they also produced this episode with additional production support from Naielli Haramio Plata and Isabelle Carey. Philde Garcia is our engineer. Our original music was composed by Leosidrin. I'm west Kasova. We'll be back tomorrow with another Big Take

Lucas, thanks for coming on the show, Thanks for having me, Thanks for listening to us here at the Big Take. It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more shows from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen, and we'd love to hear from you. Email us questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg dot Net. The supervising producer of The Big Take is Vicky Bergolina. Our senior producer is Catherine Fink, and they also produced this episode with additional production support from Naielli Haramio Plata and Isabelle Carey. Philde Garcia is our engineer. Our original music was composed by Leosidrin. I'm west Kasova. We'll be back tomorrow with another Big Take