Big TakeIn his final month as the United States’ chief diplomat, Secretary of State Antony Blinken is racing around the globe, responding to conflicts in the Middle East and the latest developments in the war in Ukraine.
During a stop in New York, he sat down with host David Gura to talk about how he is preparing to hand over the country’s sprawling foreign policy portfolio to the incoming Trump administration.
Read more: Syria: Blinken Says US Weighs Sending Officials for Talks - Bloomberg
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Anthony Blincoln has about a month left as US Secretary of State, and he's been racing around the world for meetings.
Whether it's Cutter, whether it's Egypt, whether it's Turkey, where I was just last week.
Blincoln was there to talk about Syria and the wider Middle East. He's also keeping tabs on Ukraine and the fallout from recent no confidence votes in Europe. Blincoln spent Thursday in New York at the United Nations. He's been busy at a crucial moment, the run up to the transfer of power from President Biden to President elect Trump.
I want to be able to hand off to the incoming administration the best possible hand to play in all of these areas, in all of these challenges, because the world doesn't stop just because we're in a political transition.
Thursday morning, I sat down with Blincoln in Bloomberg's New York headquarters to get the latest news from the Middle East and to have him reflect on his ten you're at the State Department and share his outlook.
Let's get that conversation that we promised to you.
Joining us now with David Gera, the US Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln.
What it to you?
Thank you very much and welcome to our audience on Bloomberg Radio and Bloomberg Television worldwide.
Mister Secretary, thank you very much for being here. Good to be with you.
Last week I had a similar conversation with another member of President Biden's cabinet, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen. Part of it was live on television, but we kept the conversation going when the camera's cut away. This is the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gerra, and today on the show, the seventy first Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln on what's ahead in the Middle East and Ukraine and how he's preparing the State Department for new leadership. Let's start with Syria, and you've described this moment as one of both promise and peril.
That's right.
You have what seems like a de facto government that is a designated terrorist group, and you've said that the US has been in contact with HDS. What specifically have they said, I know there are other groups operating in the country as well. What have they said about how they might govern?
What we've heard them say is positive. The question is what are they actually going to do. We brought together with Jordan, countries from around the region last week and we came together to set expectations. What is the international community, what are the neighbors looking for as this transition takes place in Syria? And we all agreed we want to see something that's inclusive, that's non sectarian, that respects minorities, women, that deals with any chemical weapons that may be remaining in Syria, that doesn't aly with ISIS or any of the terrorist groups through are there. And the reason that's so important is we want to make it clear to HTS and all of the emerging authorities that the recognition that they seek, the support that they seek a need from the international community. Well, there's certain expectations that come along with that. What everyone is focused on is what's actually happening on the ground.
What are they doing.
Are they working to build a transition in Syria that brings everyone in. If they do that, and if they meet some of these other tests that the international community is looking for them to meet, then I think you can see something very positive.
I look at this country that has a lot of sanctions that are residual a lot of sanctions have been in place for decades on Syria. Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut has called for a temporary suspension of sanctions. Is that something that you would be amenable to and would that be effective in helping you have more engagement with what may be this new government.
So we're looking at all the authorities we have. We're looking at all of the sanctions, not only our own. The United Nations has sanctions on HTS.
It's leader.
And I think what we need to see is actual concrete steps building an inclusive, non sectarian government, a transition eventually getting to an election. As we see these steps taken, then I think we'll be able to respond, others will be able to respond.
There's been a lot of speculation that a ceasefire deal could come together. When President Biden spoke about the deal between Israel and has Belat, he was asked at the end, do you think you can get a ceasefire deal by the end of your tenure? So he's hoping and praying. Is there anything that's happened that gives more grounds for hope than prayer going forward?
Here there is, and the reality is we should logically be able to get this. And I say that with all the caution that comes with that statement, because we've been very close before, and we've had these Lucy in the football moments where you're just ready to kick the football and Lucy pulls it away. But what's changed is this, Hamas knows that the cavalry is not coming to the rescue. For months and months, it hoped it would get a wider war with Hezbollah, with Iran, with Iranian aligned groups coming in and creating more problems from Israel on more fronts and helping Hamas endure.
We now know that's not happening.
They know it's not happening because of the very important work that was done with us and with others dealing with the unprecedented Iranian attacks on Israel, dealing with Hezbollah. So I think that's concentrated minds among Hamas on the need.
To complete the steal.
Having said that, it's always incredibly fraud and it's very hard to get decisions made, it's hard to communicate, and for all of those reasons, even as close as it is, it can still move in.
The other direction.
We've all been fanning out, working with all of the different partners who can make a difference and who may have some leverage with communications with Hamas, whether it's Cutter, whether it's Egypt, whether it's Turkey, where I was just last week. The fundamental question right now is is Hamas finally prepared to say yes? And if it does, we get the hostages back, we get a ceasefire, we get an immediate dramatic improvement in the lives of Palestinian children, women and men who've been caught in this horrible crossfire since October seventh of Hamas is making if they really purport to care about the Palestinian people, they will say yes and do it.
Now.
Let me ask you about that horrible crossfire, and it's something that you've written about in a recent essay for Foreign Affair, is the fact that millions have been displaced, tens of thousands have been killed, Gaza has been kind of reduced to rubble.
You've made twelve trips to the region.
How much regret do you have that kind of sustained level of humanitarian aid hasn't made it into Gaza over the course of this conflict.
You know, from day one, we've tried to do several things going back to October seventh. First to stand resolute with Israel, to try to make sure that October seventh would never happen again. Second to prevent this war from going wider, because if that happened, if other fronts opened up, whether it was with Iran, whether it was with Hezbolah, these other groups, more death, more destruction, and it would probably prolong what was going on in Gaza. And three to do whatever we could to make sure that people in Gaza were getting the assistance they need, We're getting the protections they need, and we have been on this virtually every single day, and we've seen moments when more assistance was getting through. Then we've seen moments where where it's ebbed and flowed. But this has a dramatic effect on the lives and livelihoods of people in Gaza. The last week or ten days there has been a noticeable improvement, but we've seen that before and then we've seen it fall off. The best way to finally deal with the needs of the people would be down in the conflict, would be to get the ceasefire, to get the hostages home. That's the best play because you have an environment that is unique, you have a population that's trapped in Gase. It doesn't have any where to go. In most other conflicts, people they can become refugees. That's not a good thing, but it's better than being caught in the middle of a hot war. And also you have an enemy in the case of Hamas that's fully enmeshed with the civilian population living in and under buildings, apartment buildings, schools, mosques, hospitals. That doesn't obviate at all the responsibility that Israel has to try to ensure that assistance gets to people who need it and that people are protected as best possible. And look, we've been working very hard to make sure that as best we can we actually start to implement plans for a better future for the region, or if we don't have time to fully do that, to be able to hand them off, not just getting the hostage and cease fire deal, but having a clear plan for what follows, a day after plan for Gaza, so that there's no vacuum that Hamas can refill, that Israel can pull out, and you can have Gaza stand up forwards people, administration, security, reconstruction. We have done an extraordinary amount of work carrying through what President Trump started with the Abraham Accords to get normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia, which would be the biggest game changer in the region. All of that is ready to be handed over to the new administration and hopefully they'll carry the ball forward.
You mentioned that normalization deal.
It with something this administration invested a lot in before October seventh. Clear that the conversations has been going on. There has been reporting that we're close to a breakthrough. There can you shed any lightns ser of where those conversations stand today.
So one of the things I look back on is on October tenth, a year ago, I was supposed to go to Saudi Arabia and to Israel to work on the Palestinian component of this normalization deal. And of course that trip didn't happen because of October seven. But even with Gaza, we've continued these conversations. We've continued this work, and in terms of the agreements that are needed between the United States and Saudi Arabia, they're pretty much ready to go, and that would then trigger the normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia. But two things are required to actually get that done. One is an end to the conflict in Gaza. And two is having a credible pathway toward a Palestinian state. As I said, all of the work's been done, and hopefully we'll get to that end of conflict in Gaza. They'll have to engage the conversation on answering the Palestinian question, but the work is there, and if that happens, this transforms the region. You have Israel that's integrated in the region. There's a common security architecture to deal with Iran. We saw that something we put together embryonically. When Iran attacked Israel in an unprecedented way direct attack, we not only for the first time, participated in Israel's active defense, we brought other countries, including countries in the region, into that defense. So you can see what's possible in the future. But it requires an end of the conflict in Gaza, and it requires moving forward on the Palestinians coming up.
As President Elect Trump readies for his return to the White House, he and his closest aids are already meeting with world leaders to discuss policy. How the Secretary of State is navigating that After the break on Wednesday, Secretary of State Anthony Blinkoln's down with Senator Marco Rubio, who is President elect Trump's pick to succeed b.
Lincoln.
I asked the secretary how he's navigating. What is a unique transition You've said of this new administration, you want it passed the baton to them so they can get off and running. Forgive me, but it does seem like they are off and running. You had President Electrump meeting in France with President Zelensky, President Macron, He's met with Prime Minister Trudeau in Florida. His destiny to be the special onboard the Middle East has been in the region as well. Does that complicate the work that you are doing.
Look, there's one president at the time, one administration at a time, but we're in very close contact with the incoming administration.
I spent a couple of tiles Field novel though, and mean we used to talk about the logan action. It does feel like these are different circumstances.
Look, I think there are a few things.
I think there are a few things going on. First, as they said, we've been in very close contact with the incoming administration. I've spent a lot of time with Senator Rubio, and Jake Salton, the National Security Advisor, with Mike Waltz, his successor. We've had very good not only conversations, but we're trying to make sure that we're as coordinated as possible so that they know what we're looking at doing in the remaining time that we have. I want to be able to hand off to the incoming administration the best possible hand to play in all of these areas, in all of these challenges. Because the world doesn't stop just because we're in a political transition. It's also normal that countries around the world want to hear from the incoming administration. They want to know what they can expect so they can get ready for that. As long as we're communicating closely, which we are, and as long as we're working to again try to make this handoff as effective as possible so that they can get moving on the run because there's really no time to wait, then I think that's a good thing.
Two more questions, the first of which is about Ukraine at this stage, what you think Vladimir Putin is fighting for. Is it to keep the land that he's taken, Is it with the hope that he could get more land? Or it's about something else entirely Is it about Ukraine's sovereignty its relationship with the West, And if it's the latter, how does that complicate potential piece talks when indeed they happen.
Look, Putin's had an imperial project for a long time, and of course, first it started really close to home with Chechnia many years ago, Georgia in eight Ukraine, the first go round twenty fourteen, Ukraine, the second go around twenty twenty two, and in his mind is the recreation of a greater Russia. And you don't have to believe me, just read what he said. He's been very clear about it. He's failed in Ukraine. That proposition that he could erase Ukraine from the map subsume it into Russia has failed. And that's a result of the incredible courage of the Ukrainian people. But it's also a result of the dozens of countries that we rallied in defense of Ukraine to make sure that they could repel this Russian aggression, prevent the takeover if Kiev pushed the Russians back. And now you have a front line that moves a little bit, but probably won't move that much from where it is. It would be good, I think if we could get to ceasefire, if that's where the Ukrainians want to go. But it has to be one that is just and durable, And for it to be durable, you've got to have some assurances built in that Russia can't simply rest refit and then reattack. The pressure that we've exerted with sanctions, with export controls is building and building. It's a heavier and heavier weight on Russia. Everything that they try to do takes longer, it's harder to do and costs more. I think he wants to get out from under that yoke, but I don't think he's going to give up on his imperial ambitions. And so you have to make sure that whatever results, if President Trump is able to bring this to a landing of some kind, that it's one that will endure, and that means necessary assurances that Ukraine has what it takes to deter future Russian aggression.
Lastly, you are such a spokesman and evangelist for multilateralism. We talk a lot about the importance of alliances, and we're at this prespice where the incoming administration seems to give that less difference than you. How confident are you in the endurance of alliances? Be they sort of the big multilateral ones, G seven, G twenty, smaller groups that you've sort of fostered and grown over the course, if you're a tenure, are they well buffeted enough that you think they'll continue no matter what.
Look, I believe as long as they continue to demonstrate their value to the United States, they will endure, and I'm convinced that they will.
Look, there are two things that.
We know, or at least that I believe, and that we've tried to put in practice. One is, there's no substitute for US engagement in US leadership around the world, because if we're not doing it, chances are someone else is, and probably not in a way that reflects our own interests, our own values, or maybe just as bad no one is, And then you get a vacuum. It's filled by bad things before it's filled with good things, and inevitably those come back to bite us. But the flip side of that coin is just as important. Pretty much everything that we're trying to do around the world that benefits the American people, because that's our job is better achieved if we're working with others, if we're cooperating, if we're coordinating, even the United States simply can't get the job done alone. And that's where our alliances and partnerships come in. You know, It's interesting to me we've built over the last four years much greater convergence among European countries, countries in the Indo Pacific, and US on how to approach the challenges posed by China, probably the most consequential relationship that we have, and many of these countries have. We're now on the same page. And the reason I know that that's working is every time I meet with my Chinese counterpart long E, he spends usually half an hour forty five minutes at the top of the meeting complaining about everything we've done to align these countries. And it's not about containing China or holding China down. It's about dealing with the real problems that we have with China and that are affecting the lives of our people. We're much more effective in changing the policies that a country like China pursues, or any other country with whom we have a challenging relationship. I think that value proposition is real and it's clear. And last thing, you look at what we've been able to do in Ukraine. Yes, we've devoted a lot of resources to that, about one hundred billion dollars, although most of that was spent in the United States to build the necessary weapons for Ukraine, good American jobs. As a result, we've done hundred million dollars. Our allies and partners one hundred and fifty billion dollars.
We've had real burden sharing.
They've picked up the load, and I think as we go forward, we've now have allies and partners doing more than they've ever done before. As long as other countries are demonstrating that they're picking up their share, I think these alliances and partnerships will endure. It's our comparative advantage. We're the only country in the world that has these alliances and partnerships that are voluntary, that are based on shared interests, shared values.
So for me, it's.
Really been one of the secrets to our success around the world, and I think incoming administration hopefully we'll see that and continue that.
Thank you again, nice to speak with you, great to do with you.
Thank you.
This is the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gura with a quick reminder. Tomorrow we'll release the second episode in our series, The Human Egg Trade, which examines the global fertility industry. Subscribe to The Big Take to get new episodes of our show and of this special series as soon as they're out. Today's episode is produced by Alex Tie. It was edited by Nick Wadams and our senior producer Naomi Shavin. It was fact checked by Adrian A. Tapia and mixed and sound designed by Alex Sagura. Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso. Our executive producer is Nicole Beemster Boor Sage is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. If you liked this episode, make sure to subscribe and review The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps people find a show. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.
