The Final Rose Has Its Thorn

Published Mar 17, 2021, 4:32 AM

Should Matt and Rachel give their relationship another chance? What’s going on with the 2 next Bachelorettes? Will Chris Harrison ever return?? Ben and Ashley have your behind the scenes look at all the Bachelor drama after Matt’s finale.

 We get an inside perspective on Matt’s season from Bri Springs. She spills some major tea about Pieper and Mike Johnson!

We talk to Sam Acho (NFL player and brother of Emmanuel Acho) and hear his reaction to After the Final Rose. He leads us in an important discussion on how the franchise can change and improve.

Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

This is the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast with her radio. It is the finale episode of the Bachelor, which means it's the finale episode of like we don't call this a season, but like we're gonna break down the after final rose and the finale here on the Almost Famous Podcast Ashley, this is gonna be a longer podcast than usual. There's a lot of details, uh to discuss. Are you ready for it? Like? Are you comfortable? Do you have a good seat? Are you are you ready to make this thing happen? Not only do I have a good comfy seat, I have my warm socks on, I mean my heated my heated socks, my electric socks. That's how settled. Well that is special. Uh, well, I'm in I'm currently in Florida, and so it's eighty degrees And this is why you weren't responding to her text last night, sound because he really worse from there at night I'm sounding yeah, because I went to go watch at my friend's house and then by the time I got home, I was time to text everybody our thoughts and then I guess you just hit the pillow. The second after after the final rows wrapped yeah, yes I did. Um, I don't last very late into the evening. In fact, that was too late for me. I woke up this morning a little tired. Um, I didn't get my eight hours of sleep, which really is frustrating. But Ashley, Uh, we have some really special guests today. Uh. One guest who's going to start out here is bree You might know her from this season of The Bachelor. Uh, somebody that we're both very excited to talk to. One of my favorites, and I think your favorites throughout the whole season, Like she was your top three pretty much like from week one on. From week one I called her being top three. Yeah, uh some Really I want to ask her why she's not being considered for the Bachelor atte Like why her name was never tossed into the ring. That's something I'm interested in because I thought like she would be a great bachelor. Why was she never even talked about like we talked about so many other people, so many other rumors were swirling, Breez's name really was never brought up. And also it's interesting but then also later on the podcast, uh, we have just a good friend now it's the almost famous podcast a terrific, a terrific human. Sam Acho, who is the brother of Emmanuel Acho. But sam Acho, they're both doing great things in the world. But Sam is an author. You gotta check out his book. Um, I will talk more about his book and how I know him through our book processes here and just a little bit. But uh, Sam's gonna come on and break down after the final rose with us, because you know, obviously Emmanuel is busy right now, We're gonna have him on at some point. But what better person than his brother. Probably, um, just the second best person, right, That's right, That's right. So hey Ashley, to get started. Let's bring Brie into the podcast. We're gonna talk about this episode and then again we have some really important questions for her. Um. So, Brie, come on in, Brie Springs, Welcome to the podcast. It's great to see you not reading erotica. To me, that was wait wait wait wait, please elaborate. So I met Brie on the Erotica writing dates that I hosted, and Brie, there's only if there's like really like it's a whole blur to me. I'm sure it's a blur to you. But the moment that sticks out in my mind really wasn't even aired. And that is our now bachelorette Katie humping and that little sete. I forgot about that. I forgot that we were all shocked because she ended up on top of him. Yeah, and that was the first for us, like this happened on the date like that. Yeah. I was just going off of my one on one and onto this next group date and I was like, oh, whoa, Katie did that? Yeah, you know, it's a good transition point here, brit because there's just something I'm super confused about out. You have to explain it to me. I'm out of touch these days. You You've been in our top three since the moment you stepped onto our television screens, like actually and I every week we're like, Breeze gonna be there, um and you like you never disappointed, you were always great. And then we get through this season and like if we can for a second, this whole like, I mean, we know what's going on within Bachelor Nation, but then like underneath it all, there's been this conversation about like, Okay, what's next? Right are Is it gonna be a Bachelor's season again? Is it gonna be a Bachelorette season or is it going to be paradise? Like all this confusion when it comes to the show stuff was happening, and then all these names started to get thrown out there about the next Bachelorette. Your name was like not at the top of that list ever. And I say that because that was disappointing to Ashley and I it's confusing to actually I why was it? Like were you in talks and it just never got to the press, Like what's going on? Why is your name not like at the top of that list. Yeah, I don't know. That's a great question. It's a it's a really great question. Um. You know, I'm not gonna lie and say that I didn't consider it. Um, I definitely considered it. And it's I don't know. I think it's it's meant for certain people and some people it's it's just not I mean. I was just talking with Nick Um. I was in the studio with him yesterday and he made a good point on his podcast last week. He was like, Marie was not meant for for this world. And I would have to agree. It's it's hard to put yourself in that situation to be so open and vulnerable and let alone on a reality TV show and the guy that you're in love with is also dating over thirty other women. So it's it's tough, um, And I think, you know, I think personally that Katie and Michelle are going to be great at it. Yeah, but okay, what does it mean to not be like meant for this world? Like, yeah, okay, take away the opening up part, because as the bachelorette, you your job is to know the contestants and allow them to know you. But like, what do you mean you're not made for this world? I think you're perfect for you were great onto, you were great for it. Well, I felt like I could be myself and that could come across so authentically and I'm happy about that. But it's just it is. It's a highly produced world, and it was tough. It was tough to to watch back and let alone. I don't I just don't know how it would all play out in the end. I think we all have gone to a point where, you know, we all had high hopes for this season and then now we're watching, you know, as we've been watching it back and see it all play out the way it did. You're just a little bit and shock at how much control you could lose in a situation like that. And that's I mean, that's something that I thought about, um going into you know, if I were to be asked to be the next batchelor At like that's a it's a big responsibility to take on. This week, you made a comment Impress that this season has been mentally and emotionally draining for you, So I would imagine that the Bachelor at process would be even more out. But can you elaborate to us about what specifically has just really brought brought to stress? Yes, I mean I look at. What I meant by that was I look at all of the pain that happened and the mistakes that have happened in order for us to get to this point that we're at now, and at least for me as a black woman, it's it's I look at it and see how far we've come in progress. But then it's just it feels defeating because it's just okay, while we have so much further to go. I mean, I think a lot of people could agree that there was a missed opportunity for the show to tackle much larger conversations and really dive into these diverse stories and we didn't see that. Um, so that was disappointing. But but I know that they are taking the steps necessary to to do better and I want to see that, do you. I haven't asked anybody this yet, and you just kind of brought it up when you're on this sea and like living in that world. Matt James The Bachelor, Um, it wasn't a secret to anybody the opportunity of the show had by having Matt James, the first black Bachelor, the most diverse cast ever on television for The Bachelor. Was there ever a moment while you're in the show that you're like, I feel like they're missing opportunity, Like I feel like they're not doing enough. That's how I felt watching it back. You know, I can confidently say that I had a great experience while on the show. Um, I felt heard, I felt seen, I felt supported. I think it was after the fact, and I don't think it's just me or just the women from our season. I think a lot of people, maybe you guys might have felt this after your seasons. But you are just kind of plunged into this world and you don't know how to navigate that after math, like the after the fact. Um. So in that sense, I do feel like there could have been more done, more support, more, I don't know, like on a comms man, as a calm professional, I would have liked to have heard from ABC, right, Like I would have liked to have heard like, hey, we're listening to you, like we take this stuff seriously, like we condemn this. Um. But I didn't see that, and that was hard. That's really hard to be a part of this season and not see that. That is interesting, isn't it. I Mean we've we've talked about it recently and um with a few people who are at the kind of the heart of everything going on. And you're one of those people, right, You're at the heart of what's going on. You're on this season actually and I removed now, but we still talk about it and we have a lot of friends involved. It's it's it is weird, and it does feel like even in the midst of all these things coming crashing down, that somebody didn't say, okay, but hold up along the way. Can we reach out to the people in the middle like that are in it, Like, can we at least like reach out that that is a weird thing that didn't happen. It's like, you know, that's a good lesson learned. Something that probably should be brought up now is where was the support post show or how can the show best support contestants and leads post show? Maybe that comes from this, Maybe that's one of the lessons learned that it would be if it was, that's a great point then. I mean that's something that I would like to see is just a little bit more accountability from the show in how we can move forward and support you know, cast and leads moving forward, because in my mind, it was a lot of pain of mistakes that could have been avoided. Um, but here we are and hopefully we can take that into use next seasons. I'm hopeful. Three. I always like to ask, you know, the contestnce that got really far, how they felt watching the show back? Did they get closure? Did they realize why you were the girls standing there in the end? How did you digest watching the season back? Yeah, as odd as it sounds, watching my breakup back gave me the closure that I needed. And I mean, you guys can relate, but you're in this situation after the show, where you're left to kind of pick up the pieces of the puzzle and put them back together to figure out what happened. And there was a lot of scrambling after the fact to try to figure that out. But watching it back, it just became increasingly clear to me where Matt's heart was the entire time, and I think we all could see that very clearly. So it was easy for me to walk away from it feeling like I got the closure that I needed. And this makes sense, but up until that episode aired last week, did you still feel like very emotionally attached to him on the show? I did on the show while we were filming. I mean I was blindsided. I was heartbroken and I was sad, and I did not see that coming. But watching it back, I'm like, oh, got it. Like I didn't see his connection with Michelle and I didn't see his connection with Rachel in the house, and watching it back, I'm like, oh my god, there was so much undeniable chemistry there. I mean, I even have to ask myself, like, if Serena Pete didn't send herself home, would I have even stayed, Like would I have gotten that it was because him and Serenapy had a really, really strong, amazing connection. Did you guys ever know that Serena let herself go? I think I think we did. Um. I think it was very UM. I think it was obvious to us when she didn't show up, she sent herself home. Yeah. UM, all right, So after watching the whole season and specifically last night, do you feel like Matt is even in a place for a relationship. Is that somebody that you would still see yourself having a successful relationship with. I will say I can confidently say that I'm not still in love with Matt. I think he can probably walk away from this experience looking at it and saying that there's a lot of room for growth here. UM. I was surprised by all of it, though, you know, I in my mind, he and Rachel were so in love, and I thought they were going to really see themselves through this and see them selves at the end of this. Um. But I also understand why that couldn't happen, why he didn't feel that that could happen. Um. And he feels like he they need to kind of go their separate ways in order for that growth to take place. It felt like after like watching last night, um, and then even watching Matt on Good Morning America, like you can see the I don't want to cut it, but like just the heaviness in his eyes, like like he's tired. He's tired, And I think I think, no matter who you are, you know, you're not used to you know, twelve hour press days and he's in it right now, so he's tired. No matter what did you feel like on the show, was he stressed out? Like could you get a sense that he was um running you know, thin the whole time? And like just mentally not like like I guess mentally with so close to breaking you mean on the show during filming. During filming, Oh, I mean, I think it is completely different. You know. I don't think anyone saw how this season was going to play out the way that it did. You know, in my mind, I think Matt was happy on the show, and I think Matt was in love and again Rachel was his end all beyond that vice versa for for Rachel. But it's been exhausting watching this having to wake up to something new happening every single day and just have it kind of blow up in your face. And I can't fault Matt for not knowing these things. I mean, we can't fault Matt for not knowing these things, but I'm sure he just got to a point now, Like watching after the Final Road, that looked like he was just like, I just want this to be over and done with. Do you think that's one of the reasons why they're not together, is like he just wants to be clean. Perhaps, I mean, I think like they both owe it to themselves to do what's best for each other, because I think, you know, from an audience perspective, you know, we want, we want to see certain things, but at the end of the day, it's like it's their las, it's their their livelihoods, and they have to do what's what's best for for themselves to move forward from this because it's tough. It's tough. My heart broke for both of them. I can't imagine how tired he is. I mean, I like that we got to give that some like um some notice. It's just like he's got to be exhausted now, ex before we break down this episode, I know actually has a few more questions for you. It's my question I like to ask anybody came off the show, are you glad you did it. I am. I am really glad that I did it, and I have no regrets, no regrets allowing myself to open up to Matt really fall in love with him, and I can confidantly say that I took a lot of lessons away from the show and even more amazing friendships with the women of this season. I mean, that was icing on the cake. Honestly, I'll ask my next questions while we go chronologically throughout the episode. So first we see Michelle meet his family and his mom's I love the way his mom was so emotional with both girls. However, my tag away from the meeting, the family meeting is that this is when even before his mom said anything about a lifelong commitment and love fading, which, all right, let's talk about that for a second. She really freaks him out with this love fading thing. And um, there's always a chance that love is going to fade. Love is a risk. We can't we can't live in that fear because if we do, then we'll never have a fulfilling relationship. Well, what do you guys think about that? I would have to agree with you, like I, you know, all of us entering into this world. We're willing to kind of take that risk, take that leap of faith, to really allow ourselves to fall in love. And I think he probably got really scared because he'd never been in a relationship before, or he had never been in love before. So whenever you hear that, you're like, oh, shoot, and I'm about to get engaged tomorrow two days, Like get freaked out, yeah, because everything's already up in like you're already so confused up in your head the way it is at that point, You're like, I could be engaged in two days, and if there's any seat of doubt in that, then, like then you get even more confused, which is probably good. Why that he just said, hey, let's just date, because there was that doubt there. I wonder, though I don't want to put words in his mom's mouth, but I wonder this because I watched that and I what I took from it was what she was saying was, you know this is and I'm gonna expound and put words in her mouth more than it ever is healthy. But this is what I was thinking, is you know you're in this crazy experience, Matt. There is it is euphoric. It is beautiful. You are feeling all sorts of puppy love, like you are just overwhelmed with this sensation of like, you know, the angels are singing in the you know, the leaves are greener than ever, and there's love in the air. But and I will say that when it comes to a committed love, like love that last, that feeling fades and it comes at times, but it's not a constant, right, like the puppy love, the early love, the middle school of fades and when it does, what's left. And what's left is that committed loving partnership, that relationship that maybe doesn't feel is like, oh my gosh, this is overwhelming. But what what's left is No, you're my partner, you're my person. We're gonna get through life together. I wonder if that's what she was saying, Like that fades, and I would say that's a good note to give your son, is like, look passes on like not as much of like the emotion of what you're feeling now. But if if you're looking at one of these women, is that somebody you can't live without forever? Yeah, I hope she was saying that. I mean, I hope that's what I would hope that she that's like I said, I just put so many words in her mouth, but that's that's what I'm thinking. Okay. So I felt that even for that Love Fads conversation, you could feel the doubt creeping up with Matt because unlike all the other okay not all, but most other leads, when they bring the girls or the guys to meet the family, they are stoked and they are like hanging on like they're on pins and needles, waiting for the advice, um, the feedback from the family after the meeting, and you just feel more passionate. But I feel like Matt was, like he was definitely in the I don't know what I'm doing land and he knew. I mean, that would be a really good question that I to ask Matt, like if he was honest with himself throughout this entire experience, because I could see coming into it how you're so open to the possibilities, you're open to an engagement like, hey, that's what I was there to do too, um, And then you just had this like wave of and I mean it was just it was a complete one eight from the conversation I had just had with him on how I at things like I walked away saying, Matt ready for an engagement, like he's reassured me, and then you get there and you you see that he just kind of wasn't. So I could see how it all hits you at a certain point where you're like, oh, shoot, like we have been in a bubble. This is not reality, this is fantasy. Am I ready for this? That is wild that you brought that up because you asked him point blank on your date the week before, are you ready for an engagement? And what they didn't what I feel like you probably didn't see as whenever I responded saying like that was really round about answer yes or no, and he said yes. I would have to those say to Matt's credit, and I'm a big Matt fan. I think you know, just like any lead he feels short at times. He did great at times, Like I like Matt a lot as a person, but you don't as the lead one. I would disagree with you actually and say I wasn't super stoked to have my family meet the girls. I was super nervous because I knew that they were going to be my parents are gonna be area overwhelmed. I knew it was a lot for them to take in. I knew I was showing up and not seeing them for months, them never meeting these girls and being like, Hey, I'm gonna introduce you to one girl that like I could be with, And I'm not gonna tell you which one because that's not something we can do here, but I'm gonna just tell you, like, I'm very interested in Like, it's a lot, and it's it's very it's very it's a very hard situation. The second point that I want to make is when you're on the show, and I don't know if you all felt this way, it kind of like goes in a wave and like you have. You start out and it's a lot of fun and it's exciting and it's new and you're like exploring it, and then you get in the moment like middle ground, where it gets like long and you kind of get tired and stressful, and then you get to the end. You don't actually have to confront the idea that you're going to be engaged possibly at the end of this until like three days before it actually happens. That's what happens exactly. So like you talk about it. You joke about it, like people ask you about it, but like you, it doesn't actually hit you that, holy cow, this is actually happening, And you have to ask yourself, do I want it to happen or not until like the very end? So maybe that's when it hit him. Yeah, And you know what, can I also say something too? Is I think what I mean? Maybe if I could go back and do something a little bit differently, I think I would want to clarify, like what does this engagement mean to you? Because as crazy as it sounds, like, I actually didn't know that had never been in love before. Um, so maybe if that was a conversation that we had, you know, like, is this something that you know, this is the one one time you're going to get down on your knee in your life? Like is that what's all writing on this engagement? And I think that that's a really important question to ask yourself if you're going to go back into the situation. Is what does this engagement at the end of this mean to you? Is it like I'm putting a ring on your finger and making a promise to you and we're going to figure out what comes afterwards, or is it like, this is the last time I want to do this, So I have to know that you are my person and here's what we're going to lay out on the table before. Okay, so you got you have to wrap with us in a little bit like we don't have you forever because it's a busy post post finale. Uh, you know, press say for you. Um. However, I want to get an important question in tell us about Rachel in real life and how you feel like she's handled this throughout the past couple of months. Yeah, So Rachel and I Rachel kay, Yeah, Yes, Rachel and I were We're friends. We're friends. We were friends on the show. And as soon as all of the photos and videos started coming to light, you know, I reached out to um check in on her and extend my support, and I didn't hear from her until after, you know, the filming of after the final rows and UM. I think her apology was a step in the right direction, and the most important thing that she can do is turn her words into actions, and I think she's starting to do so by sitting down having that conversation that she did with a manual and and seeing how she responded and how she was just honest and she was extremely apologetic. I think she's taking the right steps, and it's just we all want to see action being done. And I know she's a good person. Um. I know she has a good heart, and I'm proud of her for being able to handle this and like with stride as she has. UM, I just think there are obviously a lot of learning lessons that she and a lot of other of us can can take away from it. It's uh, it's nice for you to reach out to her though. That's a big deal. Thinks. Uh, yeah, it's awesome. It's tough. I mean, we and one well, one of the things that I wish people could have seen was the bond that we all had for each other, I mean the women, we all really leaned on each other as a source of strength and support during the season, And I wish people could have seen more than that because behind the scenes, like we all are friends and we're supportive and we're there for one another. That was a massive, massive air like huge, like we want I we should have seen how supportive you all were to each other, Like we didn't see that, right. The takeaway from the season was this is the one group of cast members that never got along, and it's like that you're saying that that was so far from the truth. I would I wish it was more balanced, because while there was I'm not going to deny, you know, negative things that I think people saw from audience perspective, my personal reflection was positive with everyone, and I wish people could have seen more. I mean, you saw the dates, for example, the dates that got cut out, like those were so fun and we all had an amazing time. Actually my group date that was my favorite group date ever. So I mean, I think he told a lot about somebody ridiculous. My day got cut down to like two minutes. I was there for five freaking days and then all of a sudden, I wasn't wait. I was on the on the days of both of you. Yes you were Humkin Patch, the Pumpkin Dames. When I was just yelling at these poor girls that eat more pancakes? How how just absolutely brutal? Is that like awful pancakes? Oh? There were three actually there were three pancakes dry with like nothing to get them down with, like, and these poor girls were like I walked out to see, like, yeah, it was it was brutal. Okay, Hey, anyways, you're the best, big fancy you here, um, and thanks for joining us. I'm sure we'll be talking to you and seeing you around for years to come. Um. But yeah, thanks for coming to the podcast. And uh, I really appreciate you. Thank you, guys, I really really appreciate it. Really nice to see you guys with both again. Ivory, thanks for one last question. Who do you want to be in Paradise? Come on, we need that headline. And I don't know if I'm going to paradise someone that I don't. I don't know if I'm going to do Paradise, but I mean I would. I'm just gonna ship this couple because I've been a fan. But Piper and Mike. Oh, that's that's new. That's good. That's good, that's good. It's always good. But you put something out there. It's nice to talk about somebody else before you talk about yourself. Because now the headline reads Piper and Mike. I like your style, Bree, you get it. Hey, have a good one, Have a drink of water. You've got a wrong day of talking. Alright, Ben, Well, let's continue our part one recap together. The first two hours after the mom and his brother meet with him. We go into the dates, but turned into one day because he only went on a date with Michelle. They did the propelling, which didn't seem that scary off of the side of the show. So I was there, it's like five stories tall. Yeah, I was like this I could do. They're really stretching. At this point, my mom was watching it with me and she's sitting there's like, wait, this is scary. She's like, I would do that, Like people do that every day there to like do maintenance on the building. Like that's not scary, Like that was. I was like, that wasn't a big deal for me. Okay. So then we go to the night time portion, which was just like you knew he was walking into that room to break up with her. And then and then right as he was almost about to get the guts and the words to do so, she goes, wait, I want to show you this gift I got you about taking out the world together. No. Oh, did you see his actual reaction, Like he put his head, he put his hand to his forehead and looked over. It's just one of those moments that you're like, I don't want to be here. I don't know how I signed up for this. I care about this girl. H It's brutal, Like, I mean, the whole thing was about being teammates, and then he has to like I mean, it's like Lebron leaving Cleveland, Like he has to break up with his teammate. Brutal, absolutely awful. It was so bad, uh, And the missus I was like, she pulled out the MR. And I was like, oh God, the mrs Is coming, The Mrs Is coming, and this is gonna be so bad. And there it was anyway, and then we learned that that he you know, walks her out of that room and then she goes back and she's like crying and crying and being being consoled by the producers and they're trying to set up her to have like two minutes of extra time to talk to Matt and he denies it. It's weird. Yeah, I don't get it. I still I don't understand that. I'm telling you, I feel like he lost his soul throughout this process. A little bit like so drained happens. I mean, he might have, and he was tired and he was confused, and at this point he's probably tired of talking about it. He might not have been seeing things clear, like he might not have been seeing like, hey, she actually just really wants to talk to you, And it could have just been like what's going to be the benefit? Like I'm not changing my mind and never really know the whole like reason for it. Um, it's interesting too. Actually, as we see here talking about Michelle, how many how many weeks have we had Michelle like on the show? Now? I mean we know her better than like any other contestant, yet she was here like half the time. Yes, she we missed out four weeks on her, but yeah, we definitely feel like I think that I feel like I know her just as much as I feel like Rachel. Right, yeah, I think so. But yeah, I mean, Matt you said it best, like it feels like he lost his soul, And I would say, like, it's not just Matt, that's not like a Matt thing, that's like all of us. Like at this point in time, you're so tired that you see the like lighted into the tunnel and you're running for it and anything that's going to distract you from that. I see how you don't want to get involved in it. But I mean, not a good decision, still a bad decision for him, but I can see how it happened. I understand exactly well put Ben well put So, then after Michelle's dumping, Rachel gets a date card to her room that says like, I need a minute, can't see you today basically, And at first I really thought Rachel was like, secretly a little excited because I think she knew that meant that he was emotional over dumping Michelle the next day. But then I think she had a bigger realization that like, oh crap, he doesn't want to see me though, so what's he thinking about? Ah? Yeah, it would have been really like I don't know how she would have gotten to the place of being excited about this, Like I would have been in my own head thinking about every worst scenario. You weren't no, like I don't think you're you are, but like I know myself and I was like, oh am I be in my own head saying the worst possible scenarios would be going on. So if if she did say think of to herself like, oh, this is a good thing, he like is sad because he let Michelle go And I'm just gonna hang out here and have my coffee and ticket for a few days until he's ready to see me. Great, but like I would have been in my own head for three days. Well, my initial interpretation of this, and it may have been hers too, was like, Hey, I'm gonna take today off, but I'll see you tomorrow. I didn't think we were going to just totally skip Rachel date and go to the big Rose ceremony. Yeah. Do you think that they were going to go immediately to the Rose ceremony? I was. I watched this whole episode confused, Like I didn't think he was even going to go to the Rose ceremony. Like I thought that I had pretty much thought like he at this point was just gonna like say, let's go date. Let's like skip all this, let's get out of here, and that's how the show was going to end. So I didn't know what was coming up next. I just thought, uh, And I honestly didn't. Maybe, and this is maybe how bad I am as a fan of the show and I've been on this show. Like when when he when she got the letter that said meet me at the lake, like that gave me anxiety. I was like, if somebody wrote me a letter and it it was like see me at the lake. I'll be like, oh crap, this is it, this is over, not even thinking I would have never even thought that that was the final. Like Rose, I would have been just like, he just wants to see me the lake to send me home. That's what I was thinking. I was like, are they going to tell her to wear the big fancy dress here or is this just a date? That's what I was confused by. Mimi at the lake sounds like let's go have a pick nick at the lake and talk things over, especially since he said I need let's talk right something like along those lines. So I definitely thought this is gonna be more of a conversation unless of they I'm pulling up to the final Rows ceremony because guess what, didn't even meet her at the lake. He met Harrison at the lake and then she pulled up to like that big to do. Yes, very complaining. I'm not complaining here, but like I feel like she just had no idea what direction this is going in, and I feel confused for her well, And I think I think that's fair because I mean I had no clue either as a fan and like Bree was just kind of saying, there's a lot of things as fans that we have the privilege of seeing that the contestants don't even see, Like we see the whole story play out in front of us. So as the whole story is playing out in front of us, you and I, both who have been on the show and fans the show, were confused at what in the world was happening and even how it ended. Um, it was like a tad weird to me too, because it felt like a really beautiful moment, but yet there was no like follow up conversation for Rachel to ask like why like why do you feel like this now? Like why are you just asking to date me? Like what's happened? Like there was none of that, And then that's weird. It was weird that it was done at the podium or whatever you want to call that. Um what is it called? What call like at a wedding? Okay, the archway? Um? Alright? So, but like also and we'll call it a gazie bow. How funny were the teases of Neil Lane and trying to get the ring in there, and like is he going to propose? Is he's not going to propose. Basically, he's like telling Harrison I don't think I can propose, and then they're like, yeah, but we quarantine nil Lane for a week, so we're going to get him in here. And then he like looks at the rings and he's like, can I hold it? And then like he's thinking, oh, maybe if I feel in the moment, I'll do it. And then just moments before so he picked sadder ring, puts it in his pocket. He says, can I hold onto this? Then he meets Harrison at the lake and then he tells him I'm still going to like play this by ear if I feel like proposing or not. There's no way he was playing it by ear. No way. Can we also give neil In a little credit. He's just spent fifteen days in the last four months, so a half of a month in the last no, six months quarantined for the Bachelor franchise because he did it twice with Claren Tasia and then he did it with Matt James. That poor guy fifteen days in a hotel room for his Yeah, the guy. The guy is he must love room service, Like he must just absolutely love the idea of watching Netflix chilling and eating chicken fingers. I don't think so. If you know Neil as much as I do, and that's not that much, but enough to know that that man is very eccentric. He needs to be buzzing around doing art creating. I don't know how he handles being in a room. Yeah. Maybe one of the best jobs he's ever done. Though. From Matt James this season was he sat in it. He talked Madd into taking a ring. He responded to questions, I mean, the guy, the guy's is just a fixture on this on this show. Um, and yeah, he we found they found a way to get Matt to take a ring, and there was nobody. Okay, So here's the other thing. And and and I don't want to be critical of Matt, because I've made it clear that I like Matt and I know how hard this is, Like there's no perfect way to do this, but here's my thought. And maybe Matt was just so confused, but it was like, and I would I want to ask him this on the podcast at some point, but like, I'm gonna play it by ear or however, he said that in the moment when he had the ring in his pocket. You don't propose to somebody playing it by ear like that is not a thing that happens. I'm just saying for anybody out there listening, if you're like, I have got a ring in my pocket, I don't know she's the one or not or he's the one, um, but like, if I have in my pocket, I'm just gonna play by ear and see if it feels right and see if it's like, that's not how you do this thing. So at that point in time, we should have all known that he's not going to propose, and I'm glad he did it because he wasn't ready for it, Like it wasn't the thing for sure, but that was the way. That's a weird thing to say, like I'm gonna play it by ear. I know that Rachel and Matt have been through a lot since that scene was filmed, but let's pretend that nothing has happened, and it's just the day after. Imagine her finding out that he had a ring in his pocket and he just decided by ear not going to get on one. Nay, yeah, just like okay, that's fine, We'll just we'll try to feeling it that intensely in the moment it's not quite there. Well, Ashley, Um, I would say most people I was watching Twitter last night, I'd say most people I thought the final episode was not after the fund of rose piece, just like the airing of the episode was like a little bit odd and off, like there was a lot of emotional like stuff going on. We did get to see the scene that you've been waiting for all season with Matt on the herb and and now it makes sense to why he was so upset and why it was so hard for him. Um, let's take a break here. You know, we have Sam Acho coming on to talk about after the Final Rose. Uh. Emmanuel Acho's brother, Sam again is an author, a tremendous dude. He's gonna talk through us. He watched the episode, he watched The Bachelor for the first time. I believe um this week not only watch his brother, but to kind of break down after the final Rose with us. So let's just take a break here. When we come back, we'll have Sam Acho on the podcast and we're gonna talk about after the Final Rose. Hey, this is Becky Tilly and Tanya rad Rad. That's me. Yeah, and we have a podcast called Scrubbing In Yeah, we do. We are two best friends and we love Grey's Anatomy, hence the name scrubbing In exactly. And this week we have one of Grey's Anatomy's very own, Anthony Hill, who plays Winston in the podcast, to chat about what's been going on. If you follow Gray's Antomy, you know that. I mean, there's just a lot to talk about. There are sudden deaths, people are coming back this season. There's a whole lot going on. It is a huge season for Gray's Anatomy. So I highly suggest you tune in. And you're not just gonna get Gray's Anatomy. I mean we have girl talk. It's just girl talk. It's like you're talking with your best friends on the couch. Yeah, except not with your best friends. You're talking with us, your virtual best friends, virtual bfs. That's right. So listen to scrubbing In on the I Heart Radio app, on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm super pumped today. A little backstory here, as all of you know, um, because you've been listening to this podcast and I talk about it endlessly. I came out with a book uh in early February called Alone in Plain Site Go to Ben Higgins book dot com to purchase right now. But a part of that journey, uh was with my my publisher, Thomas Nelson, and they said early on in my experience of kind of promoting to say, Hey, there's this guy that I think you're really going to get along with. I think you're really gonna like He's a great dude, an incredible story. Uh, he has a book with us as well. You should talk to him. And I was like, all right, what's his name is? Said Sam Acho, And I said perfect, and so Uh, Sam and I were able to connect. Uh, they're right. Uh, this dude has been a massive we'll talk about it with him in just a second. He's been a massive part of my life in the last time, I would say five months. I don't know how long it's been, as if time flies and you're having fun, um, but it's been an incredible experience. Where his brother is Emmanuel Acho, who you might to watch last night on After the Final Rows. Sam is with us right now to discuss so many things. Sam, thank you for joining the Almost Famous podcast. I'm glad to be here. Van and Ashley, good to meet you. We were talking a little bit offline here and y'all stories. So I'm super excited that I'm almost famous. I am almost famous, right. My brother hosted hosted after, so like he's the favorite. I'm almost famous. So I think this is a very fitting fitting episode. But Samy, you're also like kind of famous because football plat you are? You know, you're an NFL player, you do commentary? What else do you do? Like what are your jobs? Because I know you have multiples? Yeah, definitely. So I played the last nine years in the NFL for the Arizona car Nos, Chicago Bears, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. I just wrote a book called Let the World See You that dropped prep before Christmas. I saw him an author working on some other books as well. I do some TV stuff for uh locally in Chicago because I live out here in Chicago. But also I've got some stuff and do some stuff in Canada, like for This Canada Show and and also some like other new stuff like on ESPN, et cetera. And so that's kind of what I've been doing. And then last piece of nonprofit stuff as well, right, so nonprofit called Athletes for Justice and also have a new podcast called the Athletes for Justice podcast, which I was just on with the any f downs. It was a blast. It was it was good, like we could have gone for hours, right like, it was a good podcast. Um, it's fun to talk to you. You know. Also, you didn't mention he is the better looking brother of the Acho brothers. I would say that mostly because I know him better at this point. Uman, he's a smile that smile. I wish everybody could see that through their audio. Hey, I love that you can hear the smile through that people actually saying like I could, I could hear you. I love that though, because my brother Emmanuel, he's the most like pretty boy is a strong is strong right, but he literally like everything is like to the t and always feels like he's got to be. And I was out we were doing ESPN together, and uh he said something like, well, he's the better looking Acho and I was like, bro, I'm good. I gotta wife, the three kids and so and it actually was this our seven year anniversary yesterday. Yeah, thank you so much. I like I'm doing I'm doing more than just something right. So you're the single one. I'm the guy with the wife and kids, so my looks are a okay, I'm doing just fine. Well. In fact, when a man when I was connected with Emmanuel through Sam, I think my text him was, hey, uh, you know, it's nice to meet you through your better looking brother or something. But you know, the Acho brothers are are everywhere right now, and we're here to talk about you a lot on this podcast, but also talk about kind of last night. I know last night was the first time you've ever watched The Bachelor or the Bachelor app and so we do want to discuss kind of that whole thing in your opinion on it all. But again I want to reiterate, like, you're up to a lot in this life. Uh, let the world see you. It's a tremendous book that I've read, that I've dug into with you a couple of times on different podcasts that we've been able to connect on and and even on the phone. What was the process like of writing this book? Why did you write it? And for anybody out there listening that's like, hey, I'm thinking about checking it out, why would they want to check it out? Yeah, Well, if if anybody put it this way, like I think a lot of people go through like issues of insecurity and nobody wants to talk about it. Nobody wants to talk about some of the fear and the shame and the guilt that we've experienced, and so we try to suppress those things. And so this book is really about bringing our full selves to the table, because what happens is when you suppress your fear, your shame, your guilt, your insecurity. You suppress those things thinking that I can just cut those out and I'll be able to just live life fully. But like when you cut off one emotions, you you cut off all of them, and so like you can't pick which emotions you cut off. So if you're trying to cut off that fear and say I'm just not gonna get angry, we're probably not gonna be so happy either. Right if you cut off the shame, I'm just gonna feel that, well, you're not gonna be able to experience those true moments of life and of love. And so this book is for anyone who wants to understand what it's like to be seen, to be known, to be loved. And so if you pick up the book, that's what you'll get from it. Right, if you go to it's on Amazon and sam Acho book Dot com wherever you if you go get the book, that's what you're gonna learn. And even for me, like I'm learning how to name my emotions, because that's one thing that I think people don't do a great job of, whether it's like, man, I'm angry, like I'm that made me really upset or that hurt me right, I'm learning to do that because I've noticed that when I don't, I usually just kind of crumble on the inside. And so like for me, like last night, I was doing something and I literally just picked up the book and started reading it out loud, and it was almost like this reminder of the love that was washing over me. And so I think that's what you'll get when you when you read the book or listen to the audio book, you remember that you're that you're loved, that you're known, and that you're seeing the best parts of you. Well, you sound like a fantastic guest today if you're able to name your emotions, because we need to name some emotions that went down during after the Final Rose yesterday. But before we get into Matt and Rachel Michelle's emotions, let's talk about your brother for a minute. How did he prepare for this role. Oh that's a great question. So my brother Emmanuel hosted the show. And it's funny because he's been preparing his whole life for this. We were talking the other day and he has a daily show on TV on on Fox Sports called Speak for Yourself. It's literally every single day for about two hours a day. He's been doing that for about a year or so. Before that, he was on ESPN for about two or three years. Before that, he was on long Horn Networks, like doing TV stuff year after year after you're even making videos by himself for social media to digest during COVID. So he's been doing it and preparing for years. And he said something to me the other day. He said, if, like if this was a ten, like like hosting that show was a ten as far as difficulty and like the skill and like everything that went into it. He said, everything else I've been doing was like a four. And so we and so we talked about the idea of like peak performance is when you have to bring your best to the table. It's when like all your gifts and skills and abilities meet the challenge. And he said hosting that show for him was experiencing peak performance. Right, The sports stuff he does and he's been doing it at a high, high level, phenomenal. The other stuff he does on on social media Twitter, Instagram, makes videos phenomenal. Even his uncome terrible conversations that he's had with with tons of people phenomenal. But he said this was different. He's like The Bachelors the most most watch uh, non scripted show on TV. So I'm over here like having to make not necessarily made people cry, but like listen to them as they cry, change the subject. Even that moment where he said two to Rachel, hey are you ready to see Matt? And she was like no, and he was like, well he's coming out anyway, you know what I mean, you don't have you know, and like and even and even like the production piece to like he actually was like in a lot of those production meetings, like saying, hey, this is what we need to say, how it needs to go, even to that specific point. Right, Initially they had it edited to where like, hey, are you ready to go see Matt? She said no, and then all of a sudden Matt was just coming out. They cut out his line about that and he's like no, no no, no, I can't just like, come on, dude, Like I can't just make her do what you don't like, you have to say, you have to put my part in there. So, like even the production piece, he's been ready for this for a really really long time, and and it wasn't like he was like chasing after it. He actually has been trying to produce his own show that's like I think similar to The Bachelor, I forget what it's called. He's been pitching that to different people in l A. And so the fact that this came about was perfect. I heard that it was a seven hour long recording. Did he say that he was concerned that it was going to be chopped down too much? Because normally after the final rows is like forty minutes live and this was a lot longer than that and not live. Was he worried about certain things being cut out that are important to him? Yeah, I don't think he was worried because he was involved in that decision making. So, like even with the with the video series he's been doing with the Uncomfortable Conversations with a Black Man, like those will be three or four hour conversations and will cut it down to twenty minutes. Some of them might be two hours and we'll cut it down like twelve minutes. And he's the one actually cutting down and and figuring out what needs to be in there. And so I don't think he was concerned, but he wanted a little bit of that creative opportunity to make sure that the story was told the way that it needed to be told. It's interesting because one of the back stories here and I have a lot of of love for Sam, and I think he knows that. At this point. Um, when when everything went down with Chris and that interview with Rachel Lindsay happened, I was on a car ride and I was like kind of like freaking out for a lot of reasons. Right, Chris is a friend, Uh, and this is blowing up on my phone. Everybody's asking me, you know. Uh. And and then also like the the weight of everything that was going to be kind of happening afterwards that we all kind of knew was gonna be coming. And and I was like sitting there and I was just kind of praying through a car ride, and I called Sam. I had like an hour to talk and uh, and Sam and I were able just to kind of like, I mean, he was just incredible to me in the way that like I was able to just like kind of share my heart and him to you know, correct and to speak truth into me and to give me encouragement. It's weird for me same and I don't know if we haven't been able to really dive into it. It's weird for me now to see, like from that conversation that happened, I don't know, twenty four hours after that interview, to not knowing what the future was gonna look like with Emmanuel being the host of the show just a few months later. Like how this whole thing has gone full circle in your in your life and mine. Right, you don't even know about it. When I called you, You're like what happened? And I had to explain it to you, and then somehow someway your brother becomes the host. Yeah. No, it's it's funny because like you texted me and you're like, hey, this thing, and I was like, I don't know what. I haven't watched the show, um and that. And then when we talked and I went back and watched it, and I was like, oh, that's that's not a good look, right, And I did it just from from what was said and what I saw just wasn't a good look and so um, and I think we texted and like maybe like with Chris and all the kind of things and um and then and then my brother was like, hey, I'd love to do an uncomfortable conversation with him. I like to have him on my series. I think that'd be amazing. Um, and I think they talked about it. Then I think y'all know more about kind of how this stuff goes. And I do the what do y'all call? Like your the powers that be in the Bachelor Nation team? Okay, cool? The production team. I like powers that be a lot better. The powers that be were like, hey, we want him to get the exclusive on Good Morning America. First, so Emmanuel was like, well, hey, come on, let's do the thing. And then it was like Chris couldn't. He couldn't because like the powers that be, you know, they're like, hey, we want to do with this route. And so my brother's like, all right, cool, and then all of a sudden, his start his phone starts getting blown up. And I don't know all the details, like he'd have to be the one to tell you, but they're like, hey, I think there was interest in him hosting it and so like so so like Emmanuel still wanted the mom but he had to wait for the Good Morning America thing and I think by then maybe it had I don't know if it had been announced or not yet. Um. And then so anyways, like so like they're like talking, and I think they're both trying to like they're both like figuring this out at the same time, right, because it's one of those things where it's like, okay, like can you come on, can you not? Like what's you're what's gonna happen? And like I think some of the news, like Emmanuel find out the news about I don't. I don't know what news have been announced something maybe bachelorette or whatever, and like he'll text Chris and be like, oh, man, like you know what I mean, Like this happened, you know what I mean. And so they're both, from what I understand, they're both kind of walking in this thing like trying to figure it out. Yeah, it's cool, it's cool to be I guess for me, you know, knowing Chris as a friend, knowing you, I don't. I've talked to Emmanuel a few times. Um, it's interesting to see now the behind the scenes of it all. And also though like, yeah, they have been talking, which is why when Emmanuel was announced as the host of the show, like I would imagine, I don't want to speak for Chris. I have no clue what his opinion was on that, but he's like, hey, like this is a dude that like, hey, after something I've invested twenty years and two, like, this is a dude that can do that. Like I I you know, I know he he wants to do this well, I know that he wants to make sure that like everything is talked about. I don't know how that felt for him, but I would imagine it's kind of a weird thing to be like, wait, I'm also texting with the guy now that's gonna be sitting in that sea, and like he's only texting with him because Sam, who Chris doesn't know, and Ben Higgins says, hey, you should talk to Emmanuel, Like I just can't imagine what that feels like or what's going on behind the scenes in those kind of conversations. Yeah, I feel like it's like and it's I'll use like a sports example, it's almost like you've got like two quarterbacks trying to get the starting spot right or like wanting to be on the team right, and it's like, hey, coach, make the decision, you know. But it's like, hey, I'm still gonna be friends with you, Like I'm not gonna like and like I know Emmanuel's heart, like he's like, dude, I'm not gonna like like I think he understands like life, it has a long trajectory. So like with anything, the last thing you want to do with sale, let me try and figure out a way to kind of get by on this guy. He's like, dude, like I mean, I'm for you. You know what I mean, I'm for you know. I haven't watched all the interviews that Emmanuel's done or have all the ones that Chris has done, but I mean I even saw some of the interviews Emmanuel said. And it's not he's like, hey, I should be the next you know what I mean, Like he's more you know, and so um so anyways that it's almost I see it like I'm almost like a quarterback controversy, like hey, coach, make the decision. We're trying to hang out, we want to kick it, we want to be friends. But like what what's what? What is this? What's happening? What is this? You know, do you think that Emmanuel would have been the host if it weren't for Rachel Lindsay's recommendation. That's a great question. I don't know, Like I said, like the powers that be, so I don't know like how they operate, Um I do. I did see that Rachel like said hey, he'd be a great host, um and actually talked to him about that, you know, and he was like, dude, like I didn't ask Rachel to do that, Like I didn't, you know, like I was honored that she that she said that, but it wasn't like, hey, Rachel, um, go put in this good word like and then she got not crucified, the strong word, but she got kind of thrown to the wolves after that. And so anyways, UM, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I'm sure that um, Rachel's voice matters a ton, And so I think about like her putting her reputation on the line for somebody I think is a is a really big deal. It's uh, it's just it's the whole thing. The whole process has been intriguing, and you know, one thing I wanna say here is well, interesting fact is you grew up going to church in the same church with Rachel Lindsay, which is kind of a random connection, right like in Dallas, Texas. Um, but you and your brother both uh are incredible humans, right, and like to be on television, to be hosting stuff and be able to be professional athletes at the same time. That's a skill that's a trait like um. But also just like I know from my personal story, like the way you've helped me navigate or the way that this whole thing has been navigated, where I can call you up and you're a trusted voice that I can listen to, and you you not only share with me like insights and encouragement and prayers, but you're also very uh, you know, clear and direct when I maybe am off target? Right? Where does that come from for you and your brother? Like? How how does that happen? Where you have two incredible brothers both running these incredible lanes and able to speak so much truth into the world. Yeah, that's a really good question. So I think about our parents, right, People talk about that all the time. Right. My parents have been married for thirty seven and thirty eight years um and like a strong marriage so much so that like they go on date nights every Friday, right, Like I don't kids, y'all do your thing? Yes, Like my dad takes takes my mom on a date every single Friday. Right. They celebrate things. There's this idea of like parents like celebrating their children, Like that's big. I think about education and as well, Right, he went to a school, a really really good school. It's like the number one rated, you know school in the nation, number one rated private school in the nation in Dallas, Texas. So I think about that piece as well. I also think about our faith, right, Like I think for me and I know Emmanuel, like our faith drives us. And so that's where it comes to it. It's not about me winning and dominating and destroying and just what it's like, how can I love you well? And like when man, when I think about you, I'm like, dude, how do I love you well? Think about my brother? How do I love you? What when I think about people who I know, like how do I love them well? Even with the um even like with this whole like navigating this new lane right, Like when you and I texted, I didn't know Emmanuel was trying to you know, had a option opportunity to in the batch and stuff like I don't know his his producer people, I don't know his uh his powers at the you know. I was just like, hey, man, like come on the show, you know, because he wanted to Chriss on the show. And I think he knew like what Immanuel said to me and y'all got to just have him on here. But he was like, man, like, this could be a good opportunity just to like for Christal lack a bit of terms like clear clear his name, you know what I mean, like just like let it all out, um. And so anyways, I think I think that comes from our faith, at least from my faith. Like I'm like, all right, God, like my faith in Jesus period, like trying to honor him and love well and serve well. I go back to the education, right, the school was big and even like that sport piece too, right, being able to live in a couple of different worlds. Right. He went to this predominantly white school, but a predominantly black church. You mentioned. That's a church that Rachel, you know, and her Rachel and her family went to as well, and then like home parents who loved and cared and supported, you know. But even with that piece too about Rachel, Emmanuel uh going to church agre like they've been friends for a long long time. Before his uncomfortable conversation started, he was actually gonna do it with Rachel. This is like six eight nine months ago in June. He was like, hey, Rachel, let's do this thing together, like they were just friends. And she couldn't do it because she was in l a and he was in Austin. But She's like, hey, I know I can't be there, but you go for it, you know, And he went for and all of a sudden blew up. And so I think about their friendship and sacrifice, you know what I mean. Like, actually to your question of what Immanuel have gotten the host without Rachel's recommendation, Maybe maybe not. I don't know the powers that be, but I do know that was a big sacrifice. And do you know that carried heavyweight? Do you think about football? Right? And I'm going back to these football examples. I played for the Chicago Bears. The first Indian American coordinator has now been hired for what I understand in the NFL. His name is Shan Decide and he's been ready, right, He's been ready to be a coordinator in the NFL for years. But a lot of times, at least in those circles, it's about who you know, and most of those coaches are white or white men, so they just hire people who they know, who they look like. And so I remember, and and Sean decidedn't ask me to do this, or didn't like text me and say hey, putting a good word. I just remember like speaking out for him at a video and shared it and said, hey, like this guy is ready, and I just left it there, and all of a sudden it caught wind and he got hired. I don't think. I don't know if I have that kind of power, influence or whatever, but I just needed to say something because it was true. It was true that Sean Decai was ready to be a coordinator. All these other coordinators were getting hired left and right, and Sean was just getting past. It was true. And so with Rachel, I think what she said, Rachel lindsay, it was true, like you got the first black bachelor, and then you have the person who we chose is has made some racially insensitive comments. You've got this guy who's like literally like best friends with Oprah, doing book deals with Oprah and having uncomfortable conversations with Matthew McConaughey and and Chip and Joanna Gaines and Chelsea Handler and the whole like l a police department. Like if anybody's fit for this conversation, this guy is fit for now if you want to, if you want to hire him, great, if you don't, great for this, but like, he's fit for And I think there's something to be said about about saying something and sacrificing something that it may cost you, but let it. Even though it's true, a lot of people wanted to see Chris on the show on after the final Rows having an uncomfortable conversation with Emmanuel. Was that ever on the table? If you know, Oh, I have no idea, I have no idea. Yeah, I think you got to have the powers that be Ashley powers that they don't anything. Yeah, yeah, I don't think. I don't think. I don't. I don't know. I don't think that was on the table though, I think, um, yeah, I don't know. And this is my first time watching the show, so I don't know, like if that stuff that happens but just happened on The Bachelor. Yes, I know Emanuel is trying to have that conversation, but um with him on the on the on his show, right right? Okay, and all right, well let's I think we should dive into like the macro of last night. What do you think then? Yeah, let's take a break here, Let's take a breather. When we come back, we're gonna break down. We're gonna like, we're gonna walk Sam, who has never watched the show before, through a breakdown of an episode. It's going to be fantastic. Uh, he's gonna be along for it. But let's take a break first. We'll be back with almost famous podcasts. So, Sam, first episode you've ever watched. The thing about finale episodes is often the first two hours are like kind of negated by the after the final rows because many things changed within three months. How did you feel overall about the episode? And then what are your feelings about what was unveiled at after the final rows? Yeah? So quick disclaimer. I think like in high school, I might have watched a couple of episodes, but not like the full thing. So I've seen kind of it before the first concept bingo bingo. So and also a second disclaimer. I knew Emaniel wasn't gonna be ONTI that last hour, so I kind of waited until I caught I caught it. I caught like the second hour. Okay, so then what do you think that the conversation went? Yeah, well, I just thought like when I was watching and you know, no intention to offend. Actually I didn't ask questions because I was like, this gotta be scripted. It's gotta be because I'm like the way that, like the way that Matt was like I believe that together. I'm like, God, is that how people actually talk? Like? But I guess when you're in the middle of the emotions. But he was like, you know, and like why get the ring? You know you're not about to marry her? Like did they make him get the ring? Like the person was coming in showing these different rings for a whole week he was going to make his scene. Like I'm like, bro, you know you just said you're not about to you know, you're not, Like I didn't all I know. All I know is that you see he sent Michelle home. I think Michell all right, he sent Michelle home and then he said he went about to be with Rachel, so why are you getting a ring? You know? And then also I was like in the woods and I don't know if I like y'all might have gone to say, I'm like, how are you wearing high heels and a dress in the woods? Like those things going through my mind, like what are we doing? And so like I'm like this is gonna be, you know. And then he was like I don't think that you know, my my parents. And I'm like I'm like, okay, so are you gonna marry or you're not? And then he's like we can't be together or something, and then but let's date. I'm like, huh, all that for this? And so I was and I got y'all that might just be the thing. When I was and I haven't watched, you know, so I was like, Okay, what's gonna happen? You know? So but what I did love. What I did love was how Michelle came after and after the final rose and she was like I was heartbroken and I just wanted two minutes, no producer, just too but just to talk and you didn't give me that. So that right there. So I loved that piece because you gotta get you gotta chance to get behind the scenes. I'm like, oh, man, so I was low key mad and mad, like mad, you didn't give her two minutes. But then I get it, like he's like, Okay, she might change my mind or whatever. Um. But then and I care about little things, little things, and you shouldn't have hadden me on this podcast. And I'm like and I'm like, why did he hug why did why did why did you like she hug him at the end if she was still mad, I'm like, I'm about to hug you. You You didn't give me my two minutes. I'm not about to sit next to you. I'm not about to hug you. I'm about to sit on the other side and just let you explain your piece before you you know. But then, but then, but then with Rachel, when they said okay, you know, Emmanuel was like, there's one last chance for an embrace, and he looked at her like, man, I'll know you. You know that was that was wild. That was something we've never seen before. First off, I sort of laughed when he said your last chance for an embrace, And I was like, that's very interesting. But then they didn't do it, and I was like, holy, can we can we just mentioned for a second here? One uh side comments Sam. This is how fans of The Bachelor start is by asking all these questions. You're asking and be like I don't get it, I don't get it. I don't get it, and then you watch next season to see if you can get it, and you never do for twenty years. Um. But the second piece is, can we just give a little credit to your brother and to this episode for how much uncomfortable for lack of you know, uh irony here, uncomfortable silence. There was like there was moments here like for that when he's like you can embrace and they just sit there and your brother has to sit in that with him as they just like sit there in silence, or when they do like when they transition into the up to the conversation, uh or the after the final rose and there's just this uncomfortable silence like that just pains me inside. It's so hard to watch. We can I ask another question? And I know, I guess I'm becoming a fan now. I don't know. No, no, no more questions, No more questions, Okay, so when Matt, what is happening to me? How do I know everybody's name? Now? So when Matt left Michelle uh or maybe it was Rachel, when you're sitting outside the hotel as a hotel or somewhere sitting outside of the hotel, and then Chris came and he was asking, like you know, like what it was like, Yeah, you're you're you're probably confused and you're probably there there probably It's like if it was me and I was in matt shoes, like I feel like because I feel like he had to agree with him. Whoever the host, you have to yeah, you're probably feel like confused, you probably need to take some time to whatever. Can he say? No, I'm not confused. I just know I don't want to be with her, like like I just it was like, yeah, you probably should this, and you got a lot of emotions and and Emanuel did that a little bit too on the after the final So I think it's like a host thing. But I'm like, know what, like what would it be like if you know you probably need to take some time. No, I don't think i'm any time. I think I know exactly what I'm doing. I think you know, can that because that's what I would do. I think that's why I couldn't be one of these shows. Tell me if I'm confused or not. I don't know exactly what I want. It definitely depends on the personality, Like I think I'm Ben or Matt. Personality is gonna be like, yeah, I really am confused, and I'm gonna be like no, I just don't like him. Up. Is that how you were on your episode? To go back and watch how to go back and watch this? No? No, you know I'm down here. See he's so in He's all right, Well, let's get to the Rachel and Matt stuff. So there were rumors before that they weren't going to be together, but how their breakup unfolded was interesting to me. So he says that they had a honeymoon period, of course, as many should have after the bachelor process is over. And then he said that there were rumors coming out about her, but he just kind of like hoped they weren't true. What I found interesting about that is they weren't so much rumors as they were physical pictures. Um, So it just made me go. And then he said, once her apology came out. Once Rachel's apology came out, that's when he realized he couldn't be with her anymore. How did you what were all your thoughts on this? Well? First of all, so this this is filmed like three months ago, right all the other stuff, so yes, and then after the final rose just to clarify for the viewers recorded last week, but did people know that Rachel had one before yesterday or before like last week or whatever? It was not for a fact. No, there was high speculation in this case, just because there's been so much press about her. Okay, yeah, because I was I was kind of confused on the timeline, like okay, like did you know whatever? Because I'm thinking this is film before, but this is happening in real time. Kenny, is he allowed to say anything about it? As Sheila? I didn't really know that piece. So but anyways, yeah, like I think I was just kind of after seeing him not proposed and say like, hey, let's date, I was like, oh, yeah, I've just been dating. Like this isn't even anything, you know what I mean? Like I think it's been. It would have been different if it was like let's get married and what I don't know, it was like, hey, let's date and then so so like literally like I was catching up on it yesterday. Yeah. I I mean I think a lot of people assumed the timeline was weird for me as well. But you just said something makes sense to me because initially, my my first reaction to that when he was having a conversation with her was like, come on, Matt, like this is this is your partner, like you know you love each other, Like are you guys breaking this off? You know? She apologized why do you why are you now gone? Once the apology happens, Like that was my first reaction. Now you say they're dating, and I get that a little bit more. Now it's like, ano, they're just dating and this isn't the girlfriend, right, He's made no commitment to her that he necessarily wanted, and like I feel like it was his girlfriend. Yeah, that was his girlfriend. They were committed couple, and committed couple. He had an opportunity need to propose, and he was like, man, I'll pass. Like what is if that doesn't if that doesn't say anything? What does like for me at least as a dude, Like it's like the opportunity and maybe it's like I need more to get engaged after eight weeks. I feel like it was the eight weeks he didn't feel comfortable with. You mean, like as a hell on the show goes for So then why is anybody So let's blow up this whole thing. Why is anybody proposing after eight weeks? Like that's my issue? Why does any like so, why do you know what I mean? I get it, maybe the powers that be need is to happen, but like, why is anybody proposing after eight weeks? Like I knew you you know what I mean, my bad band? Now did you prose that? Let me? So cut that out. So like like you need somebody, you need somebody for eight weeks, and then like two weeks after the eight weeks or three weeks after something new happens. Oh, this is new information. So like I don't want to date you anymore because we were just dating. That's that's the way I see it, and that and that's what I'm saying. That makes sense to me, Like when I watched it, you know, in my head, you know, it sometimes works. I think it can people get because it's the it's the weird part of the show, right, nobody's gonna claim it is the most effective, healthiest way to get engaged, but you know it works, Like for Ashley, it worked like the show worked for her, uh four times in an introduction sense. But the point is that, like now it makes sense to me because like they were just dating and like now they broke broke. He broke it off because of the stuff that he found out, the new information that he found out during their dating relationship period. And that's fine. But I was watching it last night, I guess with the perspective of like, and I never even thought, but like, oh, they're engaged. You're breaking off something that you've committed to saying, Hey, like I love you, I'm your partner in this, I'm gonna be your teammate in this, I'm gonna i'm your writer die in this. Like and as soon as you make an apology then he's like, no, I can't do it. But if they're dating, then I guess it's it's a little it makes a lot more sense to me. Now, Yeah, only two things for me, and these are like my only two things. I think I've said more than two things, but these are going to be the two things. Um, you like this show more than you're admitting to Sam. I know I'm not. I refused to get sucked in to the powers that be. The powers that be. Now I'm getting like, so the first thing was like I think he knew, like let me, let me, let me just get to know you. That's what it seemed like at the proposal in the woods with the heels and the dress, right like, let me get to know you, That's what it seemed like. And so I was like, okay, like people get to know people, so like that's information that the part I didn't understand that I felt was scripted and actually, maybe you can speak to this because I know what's I think. I know it's not scripted. Maybe I gotta watch more to find out. But but she was like, you know, both Michelle and Rachel, we're like I couldn't imagine life without you, or like Michelle brought out the jerseys. I don't know the significance of that. I think I know he played football, but there's something like basketball jersey, you know, and my future and forever. And then Rachel was like, you know, all I see in my life at this moment is you. I'm like, bro, you know only for eight weeks. I could be a mass murder, I could be a serial killer, like not a serial but it's like there's no way, like in my mind, you don't know me, So how do you? How can you say that I couldn't imagine my life without you, like to me, if it was me and I'm a competitor, It's like, I'm gonna say what I need to say to win. So what do I need to say to win this guy's heart? And if I need to, if I need to say that I can't imagine my life without you, then I'll say it. If I need to, if I need to, you know, say that, hey I got these jerseys and Mrs James and Mr James, then I'll say it. I just it just wasn't registering to me that there's no way that y'all could just be madly in love with this dude. Like and I'm sure back Torett is the same way. There's no way these dudes can be madly in love with this guy. And obviously has ever been in the bubble before you go in the bubble and you'll understand. But but I just need to I want to talk to you about do you think that Matt broke up with Rachel solely because she needs to do work on her own. Do you feel like that is truly the reason that they broke up, just based on what you saw last night. Yeah, so based on what I saw last based on what I heard I heard him say. Um, I heard him. I heard him say, like the work, you need to do some of that work on your own. That was what I heard, And I was like, Okay, I can respect that, right because I think sometimes in relationship it's easy to say I'm gonna change and do all these things, but just so I can win. I want to win. I want to win your heart. So, like I heard him say, I I need you to do some of that work on your own, which makes sense, but to the other piece as well, like I think that there needs to because I have a ton of friends and interracial relationships. Um, you know, even my brother he had he had Jamie and Aaron Ivy who have kids who are they're white, but they have kids who were black. And even he had some other couples Lindsay Van and uh p K sub Suban and another couple who were in interracial relationships or Rachel and her You know her significant other, and so I think what I know in any whether it's a relationship or a friendship or even with your a parent, it's like there needs to be an area of understanding, of understanding and willingness to learn, right, not just to say I'm willing to learn, but to actually be willing to learn, right, even with the friendship. Right, Ben hit me up about the thing, you know, hey with Chris months ago or a month of I don't know, and I never watched the show. I was like, Hey, this is my friend. Let me like, let me learn. And I'm over here watching Extra and watching things, whether or any of you know what I mean, because I wanted to learn because he's my friend. And so some people have that, some people develop that, and then some people are like, I don't really care so much about that. I don't know, Like I said, I haven't. I don't even know if Rachel is on social media, right, I haven't. I don't know what she's said or hasn't said, or posted, tweeted or whatever, And so I really can't speak to that. But I do know in any relationship or friendship or anything, it's like I want to learn about you and I'm willing to, Like, I'm willing to learn about about whether it's your being black in America or hey, how is it being a woman in America? Or how is it being a celebrity? Right, Like, I don't know actually said you're married, right, I don't know if you met you said you met your husband on the show. But it's like, let's say you met somebody who wasn't on the show, Like I would hope that they would say, like, hey, like, I don't know what this world is like, but I want to learn. I want to. I want to I want to learn more. And so so anyways, I can't speak to what he said because I don't know if she has taken those steps, but you have, people have to take steps to learn about other people. Well, you know, we sit in a place and now though, and it's it's super interesting. So we watched last night's episode. I want to get your overarching thoughts because we only have a few minutes left with you. Um, your overarching thoughts on how last night went like with the conversations that your brother was able to kind of facilitate, Um, what you saw on the show, do you believe I guess to ask the question to help it make it easiest to answered. Do you did you find that last night's episode was helpful or was it hurtful? I thought it was extremely helpful, Um, just from the perspective of someone I gotta come from my perspective because I'm not like in the nation or whatever, so like from somebody who I had been hearing about these controversies. Uh. I thought it was extremely helpful. Number one for Michelle to address Matt on the piece of because I caught that, like, hey, whatever was a comedy said it's nice to hear I'm glad you think that way or whatever that comment is, Like, hey, dude, like what was the comment? Do you remember? It was? Thank you for sharing? Thank you for sharing? Right, Like it's like, hey, man, like guys, we gotta like actually like speak up or listeners, so it's not just like, okay, well, thank you for sharing. Right. So I thought that was interesting on that piece. But from the racial reconciliation piece, I thought it was phenomenal because Matt shared his heart, Racial shared her right, and Emmanuel was asking hard questions that a lot of people may not have been ready or willing to ask, right because you say Okay, maybe Chris somebody, Like there could have been somebody else who hosted the show, and that person probably would have been having those conversations. So like, from my perspective and even now right actually like okay for Matt to be like, hey, don't understand any of my black not understanding my blackness, Like, let's talk about it, Like these are things that people haven't talked about, So let's talk about it, because there is a deal about being black, being a black man in America, and that's like a real thing. But also, as Ben can attest to you, I had Annie on him and Annie on my podcast earlier, the Athletes for Justice podcast, and I didn't realize that Anny downs just this phenomenal woman. She's a she's a phenomenal woman. She's a podcaster or New York Times bestselling author, amazing, but she had some of the same fears that I have. M So I was like, oh wow, because we were willing to go there and have those conversations. Yes, Annie, whatever else, understand my blackness, but let me understand your your woman nous. Let me understand that, because that's a real thing. Actually, Like I don't know, like I'm not sure what college you went to, but like like rape culture is real, Like so I couldn't. I literally will be on campus and we'll see, uh when I was in college, even now walking about, we'll see a young woman like walking and like in my mind, I'm like, oh, dude, Like I'd be scared because I'm like, dude, what if some random dude comes in like does something you know? And that's a real thing. So in the same way like as a black man, like driving like and then we talked about this on the on the podcast, like I have a fear of like driving at night by myself because I'm like, if I get pulled over by the wrong cop who's in the wrong mood and maybe he has maybe he's racist, maybe he's racially insensitive, maybe he's just scared, but I am in danger. I'm thirty two year old black man. This thirty something year old white woman has that same fear. And so I think that I thought yesterday's episode was phenomenal because we were able to have these conversations that many people are not willing to have, and now we're able to ask the questions and really go deeper. When I don't think anyone else I don't think anyone else was fit for that conversation. You know. It's it's interesting you bring up that podcast. I remember any talking about putting her keys between between her fingers to walk to her car um and how I learned that When she said it right, I had no clue. That's not a part of my life. And I have to admit to that, like that's not a thing I worry about. It's also not a thing I worry about to drive at night, like that's something. But it's helpful to have two friends sitting there telling me this so that we can start to get a better and I can start to get a better understanding of what your lives look like like, what it is that goes on because ultimately, like you said, when you bring into relationships, when you go into relationship with people, you want to start learning about them. That's the thing. That's what the cool part about relationships is Now my question, and this is gonna be it's it's it's not a good question, but the conversation is now started, as we finished up at the last minute here, how do we continue the conversations in a healthy way from here? Like we've we we've started these conversations. Let's say a month ago when this interview came out, right, Um, you and I both know Chris behind the scenes has continued these conversations with people that we know, Um, and now you know your brother sits on. After the final rose last night, everybody starts talking about this. How do we not let it stop here? How do we not say? How do we move forward? So it feels like we're just jumping to the endpoint and saying, Okay, it's all good now, right, like everybody can come back and we're like going to celebrate and have fun. No, Like, how do we do this in a healthy way? Step by step to make sure that the change is needed and done. We have to be willing to be open and not take sides. It's easy when you see someone like Rachel, so no matter what the scenario is, just to take her side. And I get that, because it's also easy to see someone like Matt and no matter what the situation is, to take his side. And I think we have to be willing to like open up our fists like that that we have clinched up, ready to pick a side and fight this battle and literally listen, like my dad would say, listing he's from now your listen to me. Listen, like literally listen, because I think when you listen, you have the ability to learn. And like that's like a heart thing because even if sometimes we as you talk about these issues, your heart starts to feel a little bit like hot. Like man, what like I'm ready to go, ready to fight from my friend or whatever. But it's like what if you could be in someone's corner but still love them through it, not cancel, but like imagine like a boxing ring, right you're someone's in someone actually is in the fight trying to win the fight. Like what if we could be in their corner and say, like, if you're in the corner and they're not punching, where we're gonna say, here's a better way to punch. Hey, you gotta like dodge a little bit, Hey, rest a little bit as opposed to like jumping in the ring with him and swinging and we'd be disqualified. It's like, but you got to speak truth to the guy who's in the fight. Nothing. That's what I was trying to say, man when we first saw it, Like, hey, like what if there's a way to speak truth to your friend? Um, so he doesn't get beat up, you know what I mean. So my final question goes off that, Um, Matt says that, you know, he wants Rachel to educate herself and your your brother asked if there was any chance for reconciliation down the road after she's done that work. He didn't seem super enthusiastic about that chance. Do you feel that Matt is somebody who is ready for a relationship seeing the three hours that you did yesterday? M what saw like an hour and a half? Because um, yeah, I think the short answer to no, Um, just the little time that I saw black, Hey, I think you should. I don't know how old he is, but I think he's still trying to figure out life, you know, Um, you know. But also, how does how does somebody do that in eight weeks? Like, how do you get ready for a relationship in eight weeks? It's impossible that it's not it's rare. It's rare. It's uh, you know what, we saw a lot last night. There's a lot of the thing that I love most about this show is when um, the show hits reality and we're seeing Matt grow, which, Hey, that's not a bad thing, right, Like I you know all of us have grown just by living another day. We saw your brother host I would say tremendously well, like, uh, just as as good as what I could have even imagined. I watched it on the edge of my seat. I was, you know, I was learning, he was he was sensitive. He also, like I mean, outside of everything else, Like the dude really played up this bachelor hosting role. Like he let people sit in silence and he was like, you can embrace now, and he just sat there and like in the awkwardness, like he really he owned it last night. Um, Sam, you're You're the greatest man. I appreciate you a lot, and I really appreciate you coming on here to the almost famous podcast this this is something super special for Ashley and I. Before we let you go, I do we just want to mention one more time. Uh, your book, Uh Let the World See You is an incredible book. If you've loved listen to the same, you're gonna love his book even more. UM go out check it out, purchase it. Um. Sam, thanks for spending some time with us today. Thank you for for being there for for this podcast. And uh and we'll be talking really soon, buddy. Thank you so much. Thank you. Hey, happy anniversary. Also, that's a big deal. You just celebrated it. Um awesome thing. So yeah, you're just you're the best, dude. Thank you. I appreciate it, dude. A Hey, Sam um Man, thank you for coming on. I know it's we kept you a little longer than you wanted, but um but just thanks, buddy, No, thank you do you Thanks for thinking to me. And I literally like, I think you texted me right around as I was going to that trip, like you gotta go. You gotta go because it's gonna be like water for your soul. Yeah, so I'm gonna. I'm gonna, Yeah, I have a couple of things I want to talk to you about that. I want to talk to you about that of Annie's deal. So yeah, I'll call you, so yeah, hit me up. All right, buddy, Bye, It's another week, which means another session of Bachelor headlines. There are many we're gonna talk about him. Actually, you're our resident expert, so here we go. Chris Harrison not returning to the Bachelrette next season. Tasha Adams and Caitlin Bristow to co host Disaccording to People, all right, well if Chris isn't coming back. These girls, in my opinion, will do a dandy job filling in for him. We know that you guys know that we are huge fans of these two ladies, Like how much did I fan Girl over during her season? And Caitlin has been a friend of ours for years. This is very exciting for for the two of them, and I do think that there'll be great support systems for at least Katie, who we know they're doing Katie's season, um throughout this It's gonna be nice to have like two girls to like kind of lead them. They lead them with the advice throughout the process. Actually, I'm gonna pause headlines here and ask you a question that I think a lot of people are wondering, especially myself. Maybe I'm the only one wondering this. Why do you Okay, how is this gonna work? So they have Katie and Michelle both announces bachelorrettes. It's not going to be the Caitlin Britt situation where they have to pick and choose. It's gonna be two separate seasons. So it's just so explain this to me in a few minutes as short as you can. Why they chose to do two bachelorette seasons, which means I'm assuming they're not doing a Paradise I'm making these assumptions. Tell me when I'm wrong. No, tell me when I'm wrong. And right here, uh, two bachelortte seasons is not doing a Paradise season. Who knows in the Bachelor seasons happening? Haitlyn and Tasia around for both. So this means they're like working for the next six months straight. Just just help me understand what is going on? Okay, Well, the little slice that we got from them last night on stage definitely didn't explain everything in the best way. Their Instagram did the explaining. So first, we're gonna have Katie in this s summer spring, whatever you wanna call it, and then we're going to have Michelle's season in the fall. But I believe that Paradise will be smushed in there. And so yes, production will be working absolutely NonStop from now because they start filming Katie season this week until early December, literally filming every single month because it'll be March and April and a little early May with Katie. Then they'll jump into Paradise and do a full June shoot. Then they'll be shooting July and August Michelle season, and then they'll be doing the Bachelor and it's normal September through November. Spot why are they doing it this way? Like? Why two bachelortte seasons back to back? I guess they wanted these two girls to both have opportunities. So interesting, right, I mean there are rumors out there? Should I address rumors? I mean, yeah, let's let's what are the rumors? What are you what are you hearing? The rumor is that they want The rumor, okay, you guys, is that they wanted Michelle to be the Bachelorette, but she is committed to teaching throughout the rest of the school year, so they thought they would film with Katie during their normal time slot and then then they create a new time slot for Michelle. That makes sense. I mean, hey, good, good on Michelle for keeping with her commitment to teach. So it's amazing if that is true. If that's true, it's it's it's at least an idea. Um alright, Ashley, So final rumor, and you just have to help me understand this. If they are going to do a Paradise and I would assume now because they've already said that Caitlin and Tatia are going to be the host for the Bachelorettes, that Chris Harrison is not going to be around for those, then what happens with Paradise we have no clue. Okay, well, uh, speaking to Chris Harrison. The Bachelor at co host Tasha Adams spoke with Chris Harrison about replacing him. Her quote is, according to US Weekly, he was so kind. Well, that's nice to hear Tasia talks about how, you know, she's so honored to be given this opportunity. She said that I talked to Chris the other day and he was so kind and congratulated me for being part of the next season. It meant the world. With that being said, y'all, let's freaking go. Well, UM, obviously there's gonna be a lot around Tasia and Caitlin that we'll be talking about. I mean, I feel like we've talked about Caitlin and Tasha for a long time. I mean, Tasha as a last Bachelor and Caitlin with Dancing with the Stars. I mean, why not just continue to talk about him? UM, as they code, they're not calling it hosting. UM. They're guiding supporting the bachelor's through with the pros. It's gonna be interesting style that looks well. Speaking of Tasha, fans were starting rumors that Tasha and Zach broke up, which would break my heart if it did happen, because she was seen without her ring. But she went on I G Instagram for all those out there Monday, March fift morning, stating, uh, what the ring? Why the ring wasn't on her finger? What's going on? Ashley? Well, she was like, first, guys, you were looking at my right hand, so you were messed up about that in the first place. But the truth of the matter is I didn't even have my ring on my left hand because I finally went out to l A. I went to Nei Line store. They are cleaning it and sizing it because this thing has felt like it's going to fall off my finger for months. Now. Well, good for her. Then that's an expensive ring and not only do you get it insured, you also have to get a resize. I would say the idea that she's getting at re size is a good sign for their relationship. She's seeing this thing as a long term commitment, which, hey, I'm pumped about I really liked him Together to another big rumor in the relationship category, Claire Crawley and Dale Moss ruled out a long term future together after reunion. This according to the News, Ashley, I'm really interested here to hear what you think. Why did they get back together in Florida? And then why are they ruling everything out? Okay, Well, I really don't know, but a source apparently does. This is a source to E News says at this point in time, Claire and Dale aren't getting back together, despite the fact that they did spend that week of February sixteenth together hand in hand walking around the pool in Florida, it says. The source says, they want to be friends, they do want to see each other, but I don't think they have a long term future together. Claire is trying to move on, but she's still in contact with Dale Um. Dale had regretted everything that happened between him and Claire and has been reaching out to her recently. She finally caved and decided to answer his calls and talk it out, which I think led to the Florida trip. Um. But she's been trying to move on and it's been very hard but she did want to like see him in person to have that conversation, So that's why she flew to Florida. So all for all of you Bachelor Nation fans out there, there's a little clarity about that relationship. Well, actually, that's all the headlines we have for you today. That's our podcast. It's another season in the books now, one that will remember forever that we're all going to continue to learn and grow from. Conversations have been started. As sam Acho uh said, I Almost Famous podcast. There's been a lot of podcasts in the Bachelor world over the last few months, but we hope here at the Almost Famous Podcast that will all be better for them, that will learn and grow together. But Ashley, uh, hey, where we did it? One more season the books, But we're gonna be back starting up. It sounds like pretty soon with another Bachelorte season and talking about everything Bachelor headlines from here on now we're gonna bring on some awesome guests, aren't we along the way? We sure are. You know, this is in depth season for us, so we we get very excited. Yeah, it's really fun for us, Bet and I feel very fulfilled by that. Yeah, it is well Ashley. Uh, we'll talk next time. We'll be back next week. Thanks for listening to us. Uh. This has been the almost famous podcast and I've been been signing off. I've been Ashley later, guys. Bye,

The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast

Fan Favorite and one of the most popular Bachelors Ben Higgins and Ashley Iaconetti, the notorious c 
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