Engagement Hesitation

Published Sep 22, 2022, 2:24 AM

Ashley is joined by Chris Bukowski and Anna Redman to break down every exciting and frustrating moment from part 2 of The Bachelorette finale!

Anna shares her take that it's a BIG red flag if a contestant is ready to propose with zero hesitation. Do you agree??

We try to figure out what's going on with Tino... seems like a lot of pieces are missing from his story. 
And Chris shares the shocking member of Bachelor Nation who helped start his relationship with Anna!

This is the Benn and Ashley I almost famous podcast with her radio. Hey, guys, welcome to the almost famous podcast. Finally, oh my Gosh, today Ben is en route to the I Heart Radio Music Festival in Vegas, so I am here with a bachelor expert, Chris Bukowski, and his girlfriend, Anna Redman, of Matt James Season. These two have been together for a little while now. We're going to get into the relationship later in the show, but of course we have some pressing finale matters to attend to. Hello, guys, welcome to the show. Hi, Hey, Ashley, thanks for having us. Well, thank you so much for being here, Chris. I saw you on twitter yesterday and you agreed with me on what I think is the most massive moment of the entire finale, which was the whole Aven interrupting Tino's hot seats and then pulling Um and pulling Rachel off. So I'm glad we we agree. But also I wonder if we needed a perspective of somebody who is more on the other side, like more team let's not do teams, but you know what I mean. Who doesn't have as much empathy as we do for Tino in that spot and I'm just jumping into this scene. We're gonna jump. Okay, fine, we shouldn't jump into this hand, but just quick, quick take. What what is your quick take on that moment? I think they should have taken tina off stage and then had him come on and do what they did. I think it was just so awkward for everyone to watch Tino stand there Um. But again, we have more empathy for anyone because in that situation, just because we've all been there. Maybe, maybe, maybe. Okay, so let's get let's you know, there's like a whole bunch of like filler content in the beginning. Let's go into that final row ceremony. There's just no doubt in both of our minds that this is going to end in an engagement for Rachel and Tino, right right, like this is doubt. Okay, Alright, fine, there's a little doubt, but like the entire time Tino has been like the only guy that is really like, I'm ready for an engagement, and we all know that that is Rachel's like number one priority. I think is the bigger red flag if someone's like, yeah, I'm gung homer an engagement versus on being like let's think about this. Okay, we'll elaborate on that. Do you think that the premise of the show should be different? No, but I don't think someone being hesitant or saying that expressing their feelings towards it is like that big of a red flag. Oh of course not. Someone had like taken as like a serious thing and like let's talk about it, versus and being like yeah, I'll just give you a ring. There's so much chilliness solve this, because Rachel was all about like I gotta get gage, you gotta get gage, you gotta get engauge. Right, she gets engaged to Tino. That falls apart. She like gives back the read. There's like there's a lot of gray area, which again I do want to jump into a second, but it's a lot of gray area as to when this ring was handed back, when they broke up, if they were on a break. There's like so much, I think, to Tino's side that we're not hearing Um. And it's just funny because it sounds as if there was a moment where she wanted to give back the ring to end the engagement that she wanted so so badly, and then ends up with and then, quote quote, ends up with even in the end right, so it's like maybe he had an idea. Okay. So, anyway, the two of them get engaged. You can see the entire time well, because this is, I think, one of the only proposals that we've ever seen were like that little yellow square is at the bottom the entire proposal. It's all given away, like there's no fluttery feelings. They may have done that on purpose so that we wouldn't get like we wouldn't feel like really sad about them not being together. But Rachel's Rachel's face this entire time, whenever there's a live moment, has given away the ending for all of us. We were like, uh, it is so sad right now. She's oh so sad, so not happy. When we saw it, like honestly, the past two weeks we've seen this um since men tell all, we're just like something, that is not gonna go well for her Um. But yeah, so during the proposal we know that they're not together because her face tells it all. And then we see her family's face and they're not happy either, and that sucks. You know, like we obviously want Rachel to end up with somebody. I felt something between her and you know the entire time. How about you guys? Who did you feel like you should have ended up with? I feel like she had her like mindset on him and that's what was going to happen. He's a great looking dude. It seemed like they got along Um. But again, I think it came down to him being willing to give her the ring at the end, even if that didn't mean it was the strongest relationship. Yeah, I agree. I think she had her mindset on him. Um. I'm not sure if he had his mindset on her, Um, but you know, I mean if there's someone there, you want to pursue them to the fullest, and it's not like you don't want to just do it. You know to do it if it's not the person you want to end up with. Um. So I think that's kind of where Rachel was at in that situation. I had a lot of thought. I had like Um complicated, like a roller coaster of feelings towards you know the entire time. At first I was like, Oh my God, what chemistry, like this is like that guy, that's stubbly guy that you want to see as part of the franchise. Like he makes the franchise better, you know, like a like a like, like a tyler state, like he makes the franchise better a lot of like I was thinking that there's a thing. There's like a vibe. Right, there's a vibe. So then, Um, and so then I started to feel like he was just a player. I was like, Oh man, this guy like not here, but he doesn't really like her, like I feel like he just wants to win this thing. He's a Bachelor Fan, he wants to win. And then I started to really feel like he likes her a lot, and that's where I ended up. That's why I still end up. Actually, I still feel like he really likes her. I feel that I'm going to get so much crap a lot the end of this episode because people are gonna be like, Oh my God, actually, he cheated on her. He cheated on her. We're gonna get to that. Let's get to her now, and I go ahead. Um, I just I feel like when you're in a public relationship you have to or not public relationship, but on this show, while you're filming and then after until like the finding groles has done, you're constantly thinking about optics and, like, you hate to say it, but people are gonna do what looks best for them. Like I think Tino had it in his mind like if I apologize, if I can get back to where I can save myself in the situation. Not Saying he doesn't like her, doesn't have any feelings, but I do think that is something he was thinking about. I just think for Tino there might have been slight alter your motives, Um, to just kind of flip the script towards his side in this situation, alterior motives, like as of the motives that we heard that Eric had no opportunities, not act opportunities. I just think like when you're the villain of a season, you're getting a ton of thrown at you all the time and I think he knew that was going to happen and he wanted to just maybe trying to take control of the situation a little bit more. And again, I'm not undermining his feeling, like he couldn't he couldn't be had over heels in love with her. I just think I don't know, we'll never know exactly. We'll never know until we have Tino and Rachel on this podcast, which hopefully is going to happen soon. We do have Rachel coming on this week and we are working on getting Tino. I think it's okay if I say that he and Ben have spoken before. So we have a little, we have a little of it inside knowledge and we have a we have like a a side of the story that we feel like we've heard first before last night. So now it creates more of a debate in our head. Anyway, let's go to the cheating part. So what happens is Rachel basically does she stay on stage? I'm not even sure like how this UN faults, but she basically tells us there's been difficulties, right and it's not been smooth sailing since that engagement. Like maybe they had two weeks of pleasantries and then it went to like rocky road and and then he and then he cheated on me. That's how we heard it, and it's just like again, guys, I am not downplaying this kiss. Okay, I really want everybody know I do consider this. I do consider a kiss cheating for sure. I know people are going to bring back, bring up my story with jared. Yes, I kissed shared an airport. It was cheating Um, but we do get the story only from Rachel herself there, which I think is a little unfair. She's the one that's sitting there solo and says it got rocky and he cheated on me. Let's go watch the footage. What do you think about that? They're in a relationship, they're engaged. I would be kiss so we're engaging with it and kissed someone. Not Saying we wouldn't work through it, but it's like that is that's big. That is a big thing. I think she deserves to be upset about that. Huge, oh, for sure, for sure. But is it like a relationship ender? If you think this is your one and only engaged we're going to get married again? I don't know. But also there it's like they're in the beginning of a relationship even though they're engaged. I'm okay again. I'm now not being clear enough, because I'm not downplaying I'm not downplaying the importance of this cheating moment. I'm wondering if there's more to this, if she's a leaving out lots of parts of the story on that stage, without Tino there to interrupt and be like wait, wait, it's like you're missing the you're missing the time. That led me to that moment. And then at one point they were like threatening each other to drink dirt. Why is this happening? Like, if anything, just protect your families, protect yourself with certain crap. Obviously. Why? Why would you allude to their even being drama, because then that's going to be dug up exactly that. That moment was huge, but it alluded to me even more there's so much to this story missing. So that's why I was so upset when they the moment with Avan, because we're getting even if, like, if you cheated on her, you suck, you suck and you don't deserve her and like, I'm not conduct like your Buck Gross, but I but I feel like it was particularly cruel to do what they do with Avin coming on stage, because I don't think we got the whole version of the story because they so, they basically told us we did it. Chris, you yeah, I mean, here's the thing is, Tino had no shot. Um, you know, obviously Rachel's gonna have the opportunity to tell her side of the story. Um, the majority of the Yes, what what he did obviously was wrong, and there's you know, there's there's there's nothing okay with that, but there is a lot more to the story. There always is, Um, and he didn't really get the opportunity to kind of say that. And by the time he did get up there and have the opportunity, he was he had no shot. I mean he was just also like she didn't really let him talk much and I didn't like that. Obviously she was upset and stuff while he was up there, but he didn't really have a shot to apologize Um truly. Maybe, I don't know, it wasn't really genuine or what not, but I don't think. You know, I think she could have been more receptive of, you know, what he was trying to say and obviously they both have a lot more to say, which we don't we don't know about Um. So, you know, I don't I didn't feel bad for him by any means, but I also felt like they went way too far. M As far as yes, they buried that guy. They buried him on stage and then they didn't even worse when they brought Evan back on to the stage, which was the most awkward thing I've probably ever seen in the ten years I've been watching the show, like it wasn't even pleasant to watch. And I feel like once you get to the finale, you want those warm, bubbly feelings because you just spent how many months invested in these people, and it's like they kind of gave us that with Gabby. Yeah, I wanted I want to like I am being hugged by bastard nation at the end, and that was just like a slap in the face to viewers as well. It was like my heart was pounding, like I felt like I was involved personally, because it just it felt so intrusive and it felt such like a bully fest. Like, you know, we've talked in the past about bullying and how the mental health of these contestants. We've done it on these tell alls, and I just feel like that moment was bullying because, yeah, he didn't, he didn't have like that. He was Never gonna win, right, you're just saying they they buried him. He really had no opportunity. Also, he's just he's not quick on his feet. Um, Rachel is just, you know, she is, she she knows, you know, she knows how to handle a moment like that and he does not. And then the whole audience. Yeah, also like the whole you know, this guy's had so much time to think about this. You know what am I going to say? How am I gonna how am I gonna save myself, or how do I do this without bringing up stuff that we don't want to bring up, you know, and like, once you get up there and you're trying to explain yourself or or say things, it's just it never comes out to you want. Never, never. Yeah, so he was. He was in a tough spot. Yeah, you were talking about it and not too I feel like she wants the true apology, but when I was watching him, like he, he, and then she was like she he wrote me a letter apologizing. Hopefully he apologizes to I'm like she ended by saying he didn't even apologize. Yeah, and it's like how much more, like you're going to drag yourself down even more trying to get this from someone who he's just not going to give you what you want at yeah, I did a poll on my instagram last night. Let me pull up what the current numbers are. Okay, so I said, what are your thoughts in the moment? was a cruel spie feel and unnecessary, or he deserved it. So eight sixty eight percent. So it was cruel, Spie, fuel and unnecessary and said that he deserved it the show. Regardless of like what their thoughts were in that moment, they definitely got shatter. They got shatter. We are all talking about it. We all felt something in that moment and you know what, you know, you know, you know, Um, the the other thing that I wanted to point out was that there was like, I'm all about the female empowerment. We love our Bachelorettes, love them. They typically stay with their final person longer, Um, and they typically just handle the entire experience with more grace and poison intelligence. And I, you know, love the girls in the audience. We had Becka, Michelle and Caitlin. I do feel like it was a little bit of a girl gang thing. I feel like they were trying to set it up so that they'd have three bachelorettes that it didn't work out with. They're in quote, support of Rachel Um, even though, and then they're all gonna be on her side, and I just felt like it was a little bit like, okay, Um, I love that we support our girls, but also let's not like bring down men like like, like, let's not tear down men while supporting women, do you know what I mean? And I feel like they. I feel like what if we reverse this and and we we we embarrassed a woman like this, if a girl kissed one of our bachelor's and then we had him get escorted out by his runner up, no what like there be. The whole fandom would be up in arms. It seems like sixty eight percent of people did not like it Um, but I would say it was a hundred percent. Would not like it if it was a girl. Absolutely everything, everything that you see on these shows, it's calculated. It's calculated by producers. It's calculated to get to you to feel a certain way, and I think the show knew that they were going to do this extreme thing and they wanted to back it up, seeing like it was an empowering girl moment, and that's why they had them in the audience. And then even if, like you saw their tiktok's, like, I think it was, like you said, it was all set up to look a certain way for opjects. You know what I thought would have been more empowering for women or just in general for the show, is if she actually, I'm not saying forgave him for everything he did. Put at the end, forgave him, like okay, like I'm moving on with my life, I forgive you. This happened, this was you know, that's the past, like let's move on, don't drag this guy, don't bring this other man on the stage and like there's there's no lesson to be learned in that whole thing, like you need, you know, forgiveness is a lot more difficult than saying you know, you know exactly. So I thought that would have been a nice moment. And obviously you know it's it's tough when that happens to you. But if she was able to forgive hi at the end of that, he walks off, then you know, even comes on and they have this whole thing and I thought that would have been a real nice touch for the show. When don't we have all felt better about that, like we felt good, we'd be more in support of whatever happens with AVN. It just would have given us more of that bachelor ending that we crave. But I think the show could have like coached her to do that if they wanted. If they wanted that to happen versus the mess that we saw last night. They could have been like we think, like you should forgive him, like we all know that. They put things in people's ears and you end up doing that, especially these teels. And I don't know how much of it, but they could have coached her a little more to have that warm, fuzzy ending that I think we all wanted. Well, they're no doubt that we got ended with Gabby, because we get the quote warm fuzzy ending. However, I was so trapictized by the other moment that I couldn't enjoy it. My Dad was like you. They're like go grab more wine. It's like, well, I don't, I don't want to be stressed tonight. I want to feel Goodah, they just booted Rachel, like it was like all right, we're done with Rachel. You never saw her again after like she left with yeah, okay, I again. I really I can't get over this, so I'm just gonna keep talking about it. We have to talk about Um Tino space. Like the demoralization that was occurring was just so heartbreaking. Like again, I don't care, even if you're like a crappy person. Or let's let even call him a carpers and let's just call him Um, somebody who made a big mistake. Um. There's no need to just totally destroy, humiliate demoralize somebody like the way that they did with this. And it was all over his face, which is so heartbreaking to me, and I know, I know, people are out there gonna be like, but actually, he demoralized her by kissing another girl. Totally respect that side. I'm not saying I don't see it, but again, it's not like one hurt cancels out another hurt. You know whatever that expression is, Um. So, I mean, did you? How do you guys feel? Just looking at his face, it looked like he was on the verge of tears, like I thought he was gonna start crying. Would mean something like can I be done? Are we done? Like can can this be over? Like that's what he was mouthing and I just was like Oh, because, like that's the worst he's standing in the audience that is booing him. He just had. He like he basically just got slapped in the face by someone else taking his girl, but not his girl, but also like didn't get anywhere with this conversation that he probably intended to have. It was just like waghmy after Wahmmy after whammy. I'm also going to go on a limb here and say that even probably didn't want to do that. Yeah, he did not. I was just lap, you can drop my Mike. Yes, he did not. I would never do that. I would. I would. You know, if they're like you should do this, I'm like, m I mean I but he didn't know. He would, Tina would still be out there. They had any friendship? Did they have any friendship? I don't even think it matters. You just don't do that to a person. Yeah, that's just brutal. But it seemed like when once he walked out there, I think once he saw the situation to it was almost like because it wasn't as sweep you off the feet, prince, like it was kind of timid for what the moment was supposed to be. And I think it's because he realized Tino was out there and he didn't. And there's a good, good chance, just knowing how it things unfold, that that even did not know. I really don't think he knew and once he stepped out, you could, I don't even have to say it again, what you said was perfect. He did not. He was like, Oh God, how am I? I'm so embarrassed that I am doing this, I don't want to make this move, I think this move is gross. And then Rachel's face. I didn't like Rachel's expression. Rachel was like Ah, my moment, my moment. He had no empathy at all, and I don't know, maybe maybe I would be like that, because I would. I try to put myself in moments like this. You're you're just I know my I know myself. I'm not perfect, I'm not an angel. There's lots of times where I just want to get back at someone, and that would have been one of the bachelor moments that I just wanted to get back at someone. I made have smiled and had that vindicated feeling too. I need to put myself in that position, um, but I just feel like in the position of me sitting here, I was just like, Oh my God, I don't care if he kissed another girl. I would have been so sad for him and I wouldn't want him to be embarrassed like this. But then again, I really guys, I'm trying to see both sides and I may have responded under the spotlight the way that she did. I'm thinking if someone who really hurt me, I would like and also say kind of like when if you watch crime, drug Kas or anything, or listen to it, they're like you never know how you're gonna reacts. Are you gonna smile or you're gonna Laugh awkwardly, you're gonna cry, like you never really know. So I don't want to put too much weight into her reaction. But also this, this was her last time to really, you know, do anything, do anything in a positive light for herself. So I think, yeah, she was trying her best. Yeah, I think you're right. I think I probably would have been like, uh, screw you, look at the shining moment for me. I know myself's well enough to know that I probably would have responded the same. So let's forget my initial comment. So, guys, Um one last thing before we move on from this. I did find a tweet last night that I thought was super interesting. It was a response to one of mine. This person said, isn't it wild that we are supposed to be pleased with even popping up like it's some happy ending? Yet last time we saw him he was accused by Rachel of leading her on while he was saying that he wasn't ready to get engaged. How long is our collective attention span? I guess. I guess the last time they technically were together, she was they were like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, Um, on that night, on that you know, finale hot seat, but let's not forget the conversation that broke them up. Yeah, now it is interesting to comment on Bachelori Bachelor nation's attention span, because it's like zero. Things get flipped, they forget, like even remember, like filming. I was like, my ponytail wasn't up when we were doing this and you're doing another. I T M like the audience won't notice and guess what they didn't like. As much as bachelor nation loves being sleuths and like looking into things because it's fun, paying attention to details doesn't really happen as often as we think, or we'd like to think it does. Oh Yeah, one thousand and another thing that I would have loved to hear from Jesse, which, obviously the timing wasn't right, but I would love to, I guess, talk to Rachel about when she comes on this podcast is what are your thoughts now on getting engaged at the end? Do you think it's as much of a must as it was, or do you think that even may have had a point? Yeah, I think that'd be I think we all want to hear the answer to that question. I think hindsight, you grow, you learn things that you wanted a couple our year ago, a couple of months ago, might not be the same, especially after she's gone through all of this, which is like such a life changing, mind changing thing. Her answer role probably because I am a totally different person, especially emotionally, and like how I process my emotions because of the show. So I just think that that was probably one of the big lessons she got from it, was just being like, ah, let's prioritize this solidarity of the relationship instead of on TV. He was the whole again when they were going back and forth and he was like, well, I went to therapy for you, like so obviously they're both trying to work on themselves, but it was just weird that dirty laundry was aired a little. I'm going to take a break right now because I want to talk guess what, just a little bit more about this and then we'll move on to Gabby. See in a second. And we're back and and I just had a great thought before the break. She was talking about how they went to therapy or like did they collectively go to therapy or was she going through therapy? And he was like very supportive of that because she was going through a really tough time. She did say multiple times I was going through a really tough time around the premiere of the show, which I think. I think what you said where she went which is great, like, especially going through this. I went through therapy all that. I don't think you can be a lead on the show or even like a crucial character and not have a hard time mentally with it. Well, applaud her all the way for going to therapy. Is that something that she wanted out there, because I feel like he said it. I don't know. It's again they were just airing each other's dirty laundry and it felt like they were just trying to hurt each other up there versus find a conclusion. Chris, it looks like you have thoughts. Yeah, I don't think you like throw that out there as something like hey, I did this so I deserve this right. Yeah, we go to therapy, you know, first for ourselves, because, you know, if you're not right with yourself, and there's no way you can be right in relationship. But I don't think you should use it as a as a, as a crutch, Um, you know, as like hey, like, I went to therapy, like I'm better, you know, I'm better than you, for I was working on myself and all that stuff. Do you think that that's how she used it? Personally? Yes, Um, to an extent, and like very, you know, Cudis to her for going and working herself. The hardest thing is is to actually admitting that you need to go to therapy or you need therapy for help. But I also don't think it should be thrown around like that as, you know, something that she can almost use as an excuse that she was doing more than he was, um, you know, in the relationship. Yeah, right, right, like that is the exact exactly exactly. Um. Do you guys have anything to say about the moment where they're in the house and he brings out the like what we're gonna call just the bachelor burn book or the the Rachel Burn Book. Always mole skins. That was the first thing I saw. Is like, you know, we were just sitting down. I see him walking in with this notebook. I'm like, Oh man, he brought notes. This is Um. Do we know what was even? What was even there? I think he just like three bullet points. Yeah, I get the intention of wanting to bring notes because, like, I don't know, I can't keep my mind straight, especially and argue. There's also a zero chance that he probably wanted to bring that note. Write down your thoughts, write down everything you want to say and bring it to her. We know, Um. But yeah, just it was all again, nothing about the ending for those two felt good. Nothing felt good. It all felt piggy. Watching all of it and like you want to be like yeah, girl, get back that rig but for some reason how they edited and filmed whatever on the back end it didn't come off well. For you shot it before and they've done it. Was Be good where you were like Hannah and where you have these empowers. Oh my God, the a moment was so good. Why do we not like this? One persons the other two? Is it times have changed, or like, what's going on here? That's but again, I think that goes back to my initial argument. We feel like something's missing and I now want to deep dive into what could have been missing because again, they alluded to it. You go both of them on stage. Do you want to get into that now? Do you really want to do that on we really? I thought we basically they said like the crux of it, as what Rachel was referring to as difficulties, so big Um, and they were like they basically had a pact that like, no matter what, they weren't going to go into on TVs in respect. But then you don't give it to us. I know I don't sit and like now it's gonna be worse. We're gonna be like thinking of worse things happened in this relationship when it it's probably just personal ship that want. But it's totally okay to keep things to yourself. It's not even when you're in the line, like you need to have those boundaries for yourself and I respect that for both of them. Yeah. So, so if we respect so much, we will not do the dirty and speculate what it was about. You can all just they probably had a really rough time and we've all had rough times and relationships and yeah, it's just it was probably hard because, again, you're starting off on this deep into a relationship, but really how much you know each other? So there's not that strong foundation that a lot of relationships have have by the time big things get brought up, and I can see how that can shake yeah, and make it really difficult. Do you guys sense any like of her talking down to him? Well, yeah, okay, but again I think I would talk down and so if you hurt me I would be like boo, boo, boo. It would be nice having those conversations already happened. Yet it's like why, you know, why bring it on stage? Obviously it's it's a show, but why make it even way worse, you know, than it already is? Obviously that's what we live for and stuff, but I think there's the there's the point. It's like, all right, I want to be the one that's right at the end of this. I want to want I want to be the one that looks the best at the end of this, and I think a lot of that, a lot of the emotion that, you know, came out of racial was partially that. That's, you know, just kind of my opinion that and I think it goes back to what you said before. I think everything would have been better if there was an accepted apology, like I'm not going to choose you in the end. This isn't gonna be but I accept your apology. Thank you. Yeah, do you know what? Maybe it wasn't even so much like a talking down to I guess it was. Normally, when we see these, it's more of a fight, it's more of like his side her side, and in this case it just didn't seem like you was well, well, it seems like you know, isn't prepared to fight back. He just he just like he was just like, ah, I will sit here and get crushed and then my life will return back to normal and I will go into hiding. It was acceptance of crushing. There just was no fighting back, which I think, or you know, there was like maybe a small attempt, but like it's just there was a powerhouse and then a weak house back it would look worse and honestly, he probably think of it like it's they had the exact same conversation in the House that they had on the chair and nothing they did. It wasn't like there should have been a little more molding and prepping of that conversation so something else would happen. And before I leave this conversation, I do want to say that, like I know, people will give us lots of crap. Again, I'm saying this again, Um, that people will give us lots of crap before defending a cheater. And again, I'm not really trying to defend a cheater here, I'm really not. I think that there was just a lot that was missing and I wanted a lot more contexts Um and I do want to watch the show back again. I really, really wanted to watch that part again and like analyze everything. So I am an open book. Please send all your thoughts to me about what unfolded and tell me where I'm wrong and all that. I actually got a text from one of my best friends this morning. She had no idea, like she didn't see me on social media at all responding to this. She goes, I need to know how you feel about Tino and Rachel on stage with Avan. I have never been so happy with that. I hate cheating of any kind and I was really not taking and he really wasn't taking responsibility and when even came out, I was so happy all caps, mainly because Rachel was so happy, and that's why I watched the show for a happy ending. But I know some people feel bad, but that expose him and make him feel like an ass, make him feel stupid. On live TV he got engaged kissed another girl. I was shocked and happy, but never did feel bad. I'm an aries and I'm heartless and but wow, I'm shocked. Enjoy Italy. have lots of pasta, wine and Gelato, I guess. Yeah, there's two sides. I guess there there is six percent. He said that we're really happy to watch it. I just think again, after you've been in a position of just having thrown at you, you have more empathy towards someone which we're watching the show before I went on and I'd probably been like save with her. Yeah, but again, I think we've all seen the repercussions of what happens after that TV show turns off and, like the D M, do you get the letters? You get your family getting death threats, like that's not what we want and I think from our end we're saying it could have been a little nicer. Right. What was missing was Tino's Dad, Mr Franco. That's who wasn't there last night and I thought he was going to be the next barb. But now I think about it more and I think about how this ended and I'm like, Noah, they didn't need that extra layer there. So what do you guys think about his absence? Yeah, because barb was in Peter's Corner and Peter was the main character, so that made sense. The main character that you know, dad doesn't need to be there and we don't need to throw any more hate towards that. I don't think they needed it. I don't know. I don't think they needed it at all. But I'm guessing from a perspective would have been Nice ousone in his corner and like optics from the audience, like when everyone's booing ivetad would have been like, oh my God, they would have had to have that seven second delay. Would have had to have been yeah, that would have been good to me. Oh my goodness. Okay, well, guys, guess what? We just spent forty minutes analyzing the Tino and Rachel showdown and after this break we're going to discuss gabby and Eric. Alrighty, righty, righty, Um. We have got to talk about Gabby and Eric. So were you guys surprised to see him get down one knee? I was a little surprised because we had that freak out moment where we weren't sure whether or not he was ready to get engaged. Um. But I will say the little yellow box and a lot of Gabby's expressions along the way during the live show made me feel like she was very happy and uh, I okay. So I wasn't as surprised at that moment to see him get down one knee. That that I would have been. You know, last week I've been more surprised by paradise engagements than by that engagement last night. So not super surprised. But again, I's always doubt. Yeah, always, I mean I was I wasn't that surprised because I feel like, Um, obviously that's the end goal here on the show and you know, even he talked about how, Um, you know, he never watched the show and he was it was gonna be really hard for him to to, you know, be get an engagement at the end of the show. But if you feel you feel it. I'm kind of sick of that narrative. I feel like we see it, we've seen it a lot lately in the past couple seasons, and that well, I'm not ready to get engaged. It's like, yeah, that's like literally the point of the show. Play a lot, just play. That has been that has been a big narrative. You're right. Can we think of other narratives to push versus like, Huh, well, I'm sure about getting engaged? Yeah, there's a higher like there's more concerning things we could come up with for people. Yes, but but to that point when you go on the show before, you're like I am so ready to get engaged, like yes, but when you get to the serious point of the show and you're like, holy sh I might get engaged after this, then you start thinking, well, am I ready to get engaged? You don't really think like that until that opportunity is in front of you. Um, so it's completely different from thank you. Thank you, Chris, for bringing that up, because you have been in that point of the process multiple times, as Anna and I have not been so great. Okay, thank you for bringing us into bachelor reality. Now we now. I guess the real question is, were you guys shocked to see them? What seems to be happy now, after lots of things have come out about him, the blackface moment wasn't brought up. Kind of interesting. The moment that I thought would really shake their relationship was the text thing that came out this week. You guys are familiar, but I will recap for the FANDOM. Um, they last week Eric was there was a girl that came out that said that she and Eric were dating before the show and that it was that like he wanted to get back together with her after the show, because he said, it's just a show. It's in my my priority here is to get opportunities. You know, it's off pretty much fake. They even showed the text on the screen. I thought it was crazy that they that they showed the text on the screen. I was like, Rabo, this is good, this is good stuff. Uh, this is like let's like, let's have him respond to it directly, and he did. You know, he said, like he didn't really understand the show until he was on it, didn't really understand the feelings that he could like develop on the show. Uh, and he did. said that he apped up and like he said sorry. You know right, he said sorry. But I guess my question here is do you think that it rattled their relationship, especially coming out last week, like, do you think that he ever said this to Gabby before it came out this week? Why? My answer is no, I don't think this ever kep up to Gabby until last week. And to do you think that? My question to you. Do you think that it rattled him or rattled them more than it appeared? And my thought is he did, and it was just like, Oh man, the live show is right around the corner. My dancing with the stars from mirror is right around the corner. I'm not dealing with this right now, but I think they probably had a very, very rough week. I but they did say they talked about it before. Oh, they didn't feel like a straight up live then. Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I missed you. I'm sorry, I missing okay, she was like he brought it up to me before we even started the text surface. So okay, okay, he's been nothing but upfront, which I don't I believe him. Like if I was, I'm horrible at Dumping People. So I get his excuse of like, Oh, I'll come back to you, I wasn't into yeah, he was like I wasn't that into her. I don't know. I I believe what he was saying. It's crappy, but it's like not the worst. It's not going and kissing another girl while you're engaged again. This comes back to like you don't know what you're getting yourself into unless until you're like good, close to the end and things get serious. So if he's like hey, like I'm just gonna go and I'll probably be gone by week three and we'll come back and, you know, maybe I'll get some instagram ads out of this, we can get back to our relationship. But I mean, he obviously likes the girl, but I do think it's rattled. I still think there's gonna be you know, that's going to kind of come up. The whole black face thing. That wasn't brought up. Was it not brought up last week either? Like that's that's crazy. He did apologize on Instagram last week not to bring it up. Put the text on the screen to distract people. Again. ATTENTION SPAN is short. A lot of people follow for it. But what text on the SGRAM? Oh, the text message, the text message on this day. That was like a shocking moment. Both of us are seeing there were like they're not, they're not gonna, like are we on with the springer around Jared Springer? But yeah, I think it was a smoke and mirror show too for the show to again just they don't they obviously haven't handled situations from the past the best, but it's just it's even worse when you don't even acknowledge it. I mean I don't think that the Matt and Rachel issue was dealt appropriately, you know, perfectly at all, Um and I don't think this was handled and it's just amazing that in two years, not even we had that moment where she's, you know, an address, and then we have a black face moment and they're just they're just it's just one completely one eighty. Could have given him like obviously it deserves more than this, but anything is better than nothing. They could have given him a minute to talk and yeah, kind of show like this was wrong. But if I not bringing it up, it's like the show's kind of condoning it. I don't want him canceled, like I'm not saying that. I don't you know, and I'm not into that, but I but yeah, but that it's just like it's crazy that the difference in the situations. I agree with like, if you do it to someone, that it's got to happen or there's got to be an opportunity to talk about or discuss it or at least bring it up, because you can't. You can't do one thing one time and then do it completely different. Yeah, yeah, it's just hypocrisy and the show feels like it's taking steps back again, which sucks as the viewer. Alright, guys, I have just minutes left with you, but we must talk about the new bachelor, and that is Zack and Um. It's just interesting. I'm just not this is my problem with it. Zactlys like a super nice guy. Not. I'm not against Zack Um. I am interested as to why they would pick a bachelor from basically the lowest rate season of the Bachelorette, because all we're gonna do is perpetuate the low ratings because the people who you know, we we got a small proportion of what was bachelor nation five years ago watching the a season. So you're not gonna get back any of that old audience by choosing a new guy. I really wanted a throwback, a stunt casting and when I need to throwback, I'm not saying far, far back. You don't have to go back like with Ari, but even, like, yeah, like like a Mike Johnson would have been great, Um, because he's still a fan favorite. Like he freaking slammed our Audrey's, our coffee shopping lounge like insanely. Um, Peter, I mean, man, Oh man, do we love a Peter Krause. He is a little bit more of a throwback from Rachel's season, but that is a bachelor, you know, like I would have if you want a two bachelor acts, then get your two bachelors with Mike and Peter, and then you can have people for multiple seasons coming together. I feel bad for Zach getting any hate, but I think it's just the fandom being like we need somebody thrilling and you're a nice guy, but you're certainly not thrilling your thoughts. You just it's like if you asked him AI system to spit out with the next batter, I'm just gonna look like it was nothing surprising. It was just like boring. Um, I'm huge of like let's just throw money at Tyler's and get could do it, because that would be. Oh, guys, I was on the pay tyler's C train, like I was chugging on it. We were like to Cho pay tyler should see. gave him anything he wants. It's the only way that I thought you could have truly picked up the franchise, especially podcast, being like I love to date, I love to date women. Dating is my favorite. I saw it was a campaign for him, who loves to date. He would be insane to do it, absolutely insane to do it. Yeah, it would. It would give him nothing. He already has so much and you want skeletons brought up and how that bs like that guy would be insane to do it. I feel like the past couple of times there's been a lead, no one's liked them. I mean what people really like? Gabby, people are really sorry, but it's like you talk about a boy lead because, well, I mean Matt. I personally really enjoy Matt as a human. I think the thing was people were like a random batch, a bachelor, a friend of Tyler, not Tis um, but like, you know, he was handsome and we'd liked Matt Right, but like we just were like this guy isn't part of the Bachelor nation. And then we had Clayton, which literally no offense to Clayton and everyone, and I hate when people say no offense and then totally demoralized them and the next sentence. But like nobody cared about Clayton, and I think this is the same thing as Clayton. No one really cares Um. But yeah, I agree with that. Should have done a throw back's yeah, he's about to be remember that was like the whole thing in a fantasy suitets, like ready for engagement and you're Styeng and you're so young. But Ben and Colton were both twenty six as well as like Ben, that is the oldest sold of all time. Ben Is the oldest soul of all time. But also mat was. I don't think. Oh, yeah, I don't. Yeah, but then you're bringing on what are you bringing on? Girls that are about the younger ages, because then it's all girls who are ready for marriage. Well, you guys should go to bachelor data. She has a couple of posts about this and how, like, at the end of the day, even when people complain about younger ages, we've always been within like a year and a half of the same like median or average age. So so check it out of the show. It's just young people finding yeah, older people can't, but I think it's because the fandom is getting older. I think it's more of a millennial show. But again, bachelor data. Let us know how you feel. How what how the actual stats play out? All right, I need to wrap this, but I also cannot leave you without talking about your fationship. So I'm gonna take a quick break and then get back to your love. Give us the fairy tale ending that we didn't. Well, we got half of yesterday. So one second and we're back with Anna Redmond and Chris Bukowski. Y'All, how did you meet? How did you fall in love and move in together? Are we living together? Oh, I thought you were living together. Um, uh, Joe and Serna kind of set us up. We were both single and sad around the holiday and in Chicago. You're both from Chicago. Well, Chris Liss and Chris has lived everywhere. He was living in Colorado, but his family's here, so he was back. I think it was around Thanksgiving time. Um, we went on a date, it went well, we like each other and then here here's what happened. We'll make it. We'll make this quick and sweet, alright, but also, but also make it romantic. Okay, we have another BAS donation couple here. It's something too, as Ben would say, celebrate. You know what, it's not that romantic to start because we got really sick together and all. Yeah, we both had our second date. We had the stomach blue. It was awful, but you suffered through it together. Room veil. That doesn't sound weird that was their second day, but it's a lot. It was a long distance relationships and each other was like kind of to go on a trip and Um, we both got to veil and we got so sick. Like thank God the bathroom was kind of like, in a way, separate area, like we had this cool, sweet otherwise I think I would have tapped out, like it was so bad. But it was kind of funny because at the end of it we're like, okay, if we just went through that and we still have feelings for each other, yes, it's like it's good. And then, yeah, he just kept flying up to see we flew back and forth, and then now we're in the same city living together, so it's great. Yeah, but mad, mad thanks to Joe, because we were sitting at a bar and he's like you should text or d m Anna, and I'm like, I have no idea who you're talking about. I really didn't watch the show. And I'm like, Oh, she's, you know, pretty my my type, and Um, whatever that is. But yeah, but in my type now. Um, and he's like messenge her right now. So I D M Her on instagram and he's like, you have to go out her tonight, but she was in Minnesota. So we set up a date for the following week and uh yeah, Um, went on a date and then kind of reconnected like three, four weeks later in veil and got really stick together and then that's it. Yeah, but yeah, it was just crazy and when I sat down I was like, Dang, he's cute. Yeah, did you okay? Well, you guys live together, so I'm allowed to ask you this, like tell us the moment that you said I love you. M M it was pretty far. It wasn't. It was like three months for me. It was like around Valentine's Day, which was so February, December, January. Yeah, he definitely was more vocal at first and I was like kind of scared, Um, but then it was just like I don't know, love his love and it like hits you and you're like, holy crap, this is great but also terrifying. So, yeah, this is anker. I love it. Did you so like you move? You're moving in. You've been to get been the same place for now for how long? Um, well, we've basically lived together since. We haven't like spent time of art since day because we'd be going back and forth, like I'd spent a week in Colorado and then he'd come and spend like a month in Chicago, crash by place my roommate. It was. It was quite the situation. And then he was back here in Chicago. We got it. He has a condoct here, so he was living there for a while and then I was were never apart and that keep his friend wanted to move into his place and we were like should we do it? So yes, she was saying like Oh, let's do it next March. I'm like, I would have moved in with you like six months ago. I was like okay, let's do it. How cute. Okay. Well, my next question was gonna be like have is there any like living situation like annoyances so far, but I guess, like not really, or come on, or he knows that drives me up. Do you put your hangers back after you take it and you put the hangars where the empty hangars are so they all don't get lost? I'm actually on this. Sometimes I'll keep it on the chair and so that like I have the hangar there when I go and hang up my close at the end of the day. Or then sometimes I do put it back with like hanging up so that I can like see where the spot was exactly. Actually, that's what I do. I put the hangar where I took the shirt off. Okay, out, like it's not in law that I am team, it's on this because I like to say, like the whole point is so that I know where the hangar is when I hanging up at the end of it for him. All right, well, well then, Chris. What does Anna do that's annoying to you? Um, well, our sleep schedules and our diets are completely different. But okay, she was. She slips her food, like her sup cereal. That's a bad one, pretty long, but it's cute, at least when she does it. Like I can't even eat dinner with my dad because he slips his soups or like his food so loud. So if it's hot, how that's so funny. OCES with each other. Not Bad, not, not bad. I told jared the other day he was like the way he eats ice cream is like so funny. It's not disgusting or anything. It's almost like he's like he almost treats it like it's like gold going into his mouth. And I'm like the other day I've always said to him like the past Cole month and like the way you eat ice cream is so funny. It's like it's the way it's like. I can't you just eat it like it's like a treasure. And then the other day I was just like in a mood and I was like I hate the way you eat ice cream. You should see her eat like we have these freeze POPs. It's the most obnoxious thing. Oh, he does the freeze POPs too, like the old nineties things that are long and he pushes them through. He does. He eats those like multiple times and I'm like I get that. You're enjoying it. Can you enjoyed a little bit quieter? Okay, that might be an issue that grows. We'll see. Um But guys, I do think that you are a very cute couple and I have really enjoyed and appreciate you being here with me today. I think that we're on the same page about a lot of things. We had a really good, they're all understanding conversation of what went on and, Um, I'm just glad that I got to do it with you. Thanks for having US actually, and I will. I will all right, thanks, I'm excited. I'll go slurt my Gelado. Okay, see you, guys. All right. By follow the Benn and Ashley I almost famous podcasts on I heart radio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.

The Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast

Fan Favorite and one of the most popular Bachelors Ben Higgins and Ashley Iaconetti, the notorious c 
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