What happens when two former Bachelors get together?? Secrets are revealed! Ben is hanging out with Clayton Echard who has a LOT to say since the last time we saw him.
Clayton clears the air about what happened with him and Rachel, and what he was TRULY feeling the first time he laid eyes on her.
And, we hear the real story on where he stands with Susie today.
This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast with I our radio. It's another episode of the Almost Famous podcast. Today we are very very fortunate, very lucky, I would say, to have a very special host with me, Layton. Welcome to the podcast. Man. Man, last time I saw you, you were kicking everyone's button golf, and now here we are on a maybe a little bit more equal playing field. I like my chances of speaking a lot versus playing golf, so I might be able to hang with you this time. This is gonna be a good episode because you just said the one compliment in the world to me that means the most to me. So thank you for recognizing that it's gonna be blast. Yeah. Last that we were together, you shot like one. We did go golfing at a beautiful place. You surprised everybody because you don't play golf typically. You're a monstrous man. You make a club look very small in your hands, although you're undersized clubs too, I should say part of it. I think they were bigger than mine and you make them look small. And then we went back to the house. I had to actually head out of town for another event, and I'm on the plane and I'm on this plane, and all of a sudden, your name is blowing up everywhere on my Google alerts, like everywhere. Walk us through what happened after the golf round that day? And did you expect your videos with Rachel and Michelle to do what they did? Ben, You're coming out hot man, I wasn't. I was. I thought, we're gonna warm up. We are warm enough. This is easy, this is easy stuff. Oh great, I can't even wait for what's gonna what's to come? Yeah, you know what I mean. Well, you know, we were there for a couple of days and just feeling the situation out right. Day one, when I came out of the airport and I first saw Rachel, I was like, do I need to get ready to duck something a water bottle or But now she was super sweet and and so we were all having a good time. And then uh yeah, when you left, we were all sitting there and we thought, you know, let's let's just have some fun with this, right, Like we've how far we've come, and now we can sit in a room together and and laugh and understand one another, and we've made amends and let's just have some fun with this. So uh, yeah, we as I don't normally don't do anyways, but um, the ideas came up with TikTok. And I'm not the visionary, but I can usually add on to things here and there. So we started talking and so this would be fun if we, you know, set this up this way, and so we did and then it popped off and then all of a sudden, I you know, then I just had to start answering to some things. And uh but you know again, for me, more than anything, it just showed that, um, you know, how far we've all come and how we're able to to look past kind of all the all the pain that had presented itself years prior. So, um, this is a fun moment. But of course people in the Internet like to like to gas everything up and and just see if there's something more than what they're is there, and so of course then all these questions came and followed. I thought it was super fun. I think it's really cool just to give perspective because I talk on this show every week, right, and so it's always good for people to hear a different perspective. Two questions for you. One was just the first time you've ran into somebody on your season that was in the top four other than Susie. And then two, can you just speak to a little bit because I know that it's a very real thing, but some people watch the show and they don't think like real life and the show ever connect, Like how odd is it being around like a Rachel or a Michelle even you know, what are the nerves? Like what are you feeling walking into a room where you know you're gonna be around both these people maybe for the first time. Yeah, So to answer your first question, I have not I have not run across Gabby yet. Uh and then um, then Serene would have been the other person. But yes, I've I've run across three and a few times because Brandon and I are very close. Um. And so that was funny the dynamic when we uh well first like hung out together. He was like, whoa easy on the hug there, And he'd be like, hey, hey, y'all are getting too close. So he was, you know, playing that dynamic of you guys, I'm gonna keep my eye on you guys. But it was it was playful and of course like him and I are such close friends, and and and Serene and I had had a good um, you know, we have a good friendship now and I think things ended um a lot better with her on the show than like with the with the final three. So there wasn't much uh there to have to be baby concern about it or or have to overcome uh. So yeah, I guess I've I've I've hung out with now three of the four final yeah individuals. So um, who knows if olive across the pass a Gabby. I know she's super busy. But to answer the second half of your question, I don't really like the nerves for me and and you can answer. You could probably attest to this. I feel like after you go through so much, you put your entire life on display for everyone to judge every facet of you. They they're gonna look at how you kiss, They're gonna look at your game, They're gonna look at um, you know how if you have empathy or not. They're going to judge your career, They're gonna judge what you're doing after the show. After all this, these constant eyes on you, it just kind of starts to become you just be you, just kind of not I don't know if hardens the right word, but you're kind of like battle tested, and so you you just feel that then whenever you're faced with it with circumstance that maybe normally would be uncomfortable for most I typically just think, here's all the things that you've went through and done um and a lot of these things now just don't really incite fear in me or concern. My biggest thing is it's when I step into a situation like that, is just first off reading the room and making sure, hey, like do we have that mutual respect? And I want to make sure we're all good on this and then and then yeah, can we kind of be playful or is it something that we need to like step aside to have a conversation with one another? And so that's the way I look at it. But I wasn't necessarily nervous um when I first bumped into Rachel. You know, it had been a year and the last time we talked was at Afar. But more than anything, you just want to make sure that person's okay and that and that you're cordial and if there's some beef you got to settle, then it's like, okay, let's go do this as two mature individuals. Um. So that's the way I look at it. And with Michelle as well. I mean, the connection we never got to that place that I got with maybe someone like Rachel or Gabby or Susie. Right like with rachel Or, with Michelle, I was taking out at number eight, So we never had that that strong of a connection, and we've always been cordial in that front. So um, I try not to overthink it these days, which is a big, big statement, but I don't know. I mean, you have you run into people from your final four and how do you approach that? Yeah, I have. I think at this point I've everybody but Kayla. I've seen or Ina the jojo at an airport okay um and the airports many dude it was and you for me, I do get nervous. I'm with you where you're a little more hardened, you're a little more prepared. That stuff doesn't affect you. But when I know that I'm going on a trip, or when i know that I'm going to be in the same place as somebody that was on my season, I do get anxious. And I'll tell you why. And it might be my own issue, but I always had this idea that all these women are on a text thread and all these women are living in the house, and I'm kind of on my island alone, and You're really only gonna make one person potentially happy on your season. Everybody else is going to be mad at you for some reason, and also rightfully trying to like say whatever they can, you know, to make themselves feel better about not, you know, the experience not going the way maybe they thought it would, even though they all end up very okay over the years. And so I always walk into these like insecure, feeling like kind of the the the enemy, the outsider, and especially when there's more than one of the women on my season in the same room at sometime, I just feel like I'm gonna walk into this room and they're all like gonna be giggling, like you know, and making fun of me, and I'm gonna be like, yeah, okay, now you know you can, and I'm taking it all in. So I do get nervous. Maybe not as much anymore, but at the beginning, I remember being very anxious for these moments and very uncomfortable. I thought you handled it really well. I mean I watched it, you know, I've been able to be around Rachel now a few times since her season ended and catch up with her on her personal life and you know the things she's up to and her fears and how she's walking through the process post being a lead. And so I knew the storyline going into that weekend, like I knew that was gonna be a thing and kind of be awkward maybe, And I thought you just handled it well. I thought you rolled with it. The weekend ended up being a lot of fun. And I think a lot of that is how you and Michelle and Rachel handled yourselves, like you just made it one and you made it funny. You can have to laugh at it. Maybe that's a you know, a piece of advice or anybody going through a breakup and you run into that person again is maybe if you just can put a smile on your face and try to have the best time possible, it makes a lot easier. But yeah, I thought the whole weekend went well because of the way you three handled yourselves. You could have gone south. And I will say, yes, those text threads do exist. I've seen them to some degree, I've heard of them. But beyond that, though I agree with you, I went through the same thing that you went through, where I started to a lot of times, yeah, project what I thought people were going to how they would react when they saw me, because I was like, okay, that they're talking this way about me, so when I get into a room with them, they're going to be thinking these thoughts internally. But what I've found a lot of times and where I've gotten to today, and I went through everything that you just said that you went through. I went through the exact thing. But I finally told myself a lot of times I will project, and then the outcome will never occur that projecting. So I thought, if I just go in with an open mind and with a smile on my face, and I approach it and say like, let's just speak like like let me go in here and really just try to be who I am authentically, but show that I'm willing to just try to make this work out and establish this this friendship or whatever it may be. I feel like, what however you carry yourself is what is going to then project and rub off onto that other individuals. So if I'd have walked in with that first interaction and I would have you know, avoided eye contact and just kind of like gotten the car right away without saying hello that entire week it would have been awkward. Right, Like, whatever energy you project is probably going to be received, And so I just thought, hey, I'm just gonna walk out with a smile and just be like, hey, how's it going, but like in a kind of a humorous light way of you know, how how are we? But you know? Again, I think like that energy reads and and then I found that when you do that a lot of times it will put someone's guard down and they go okay, I mean we both. I also did ask ahead of time, does she know I'm coming or like she does? I said, okay, well if she hated me, then as she knows I'm coming, unless she's gonna just hurl something at me, we're probably okay because she's aware. So I did check. And then from that point forward, I thought their interaction is going to be whatever you make it. So if you decide to be awkward about it'll be awkward. If you decide to be rude, it'll be rude. But if you decide to be kind, caring and attentive, that's the way it'll take it received. And it was that's what she gave back to me, Well, I was really glad that we get to spend h that I get to meet you in person. Right, There's there's a quality about you obviously that's done. Um, that there's a quality about you that displays a lot of wisdom. I think this is just one, you know, for the TikTok video that came in up. Fans watch it and they react and they, like you said, they blow it up. They have their which tektok video because I keep having more come out. Oh the one with the with Rachel and Michelle, Well, the one that really got popular. Um. You know, but I always, especially on this show, like to go to the behind the scenes and you just explained it like your mental preparation, how you how you prepared yourself to meet somebody that you didn't exactly know how the response would be. And so there's a lot of wisdom. Um, there's a lot of care um for your mental state, uh and and how you handle yourself. And it also displays in your newest project. And we're gonna get to the show and this episode and we're gonna you know, blab on about what happened on this episode. I say, I got a lot a lot to talk about Man and that show episode and it deals with with it with the mental aspect side of it too, the mental health side. So I care, yeah your opinion, Yeah, well your perspective is going to be great. But before we get to that, I do want to take a second and highlight, um, a project that you just came out with your book. Um, something that we got to speak about out on the way to the golf course, something that matters and means a lot to you, that you worked on very hard for a long time. So just give your best promo and kind of what people can expect out of this book before we get to the opinions of the episode. Yeah, well, I put a lot into that book. It took me nine months to write, so it was my baby basically, right, So, and it really boils down to a story of how an individual can go from self doubt to self belief and how individuals can harness that hope that if I've went through that, then they can as well. So I open up and just get very candid and try to destigmatize the conversations around mental health. And the book is for anybody else who is struggling with depression. Anxiety, comparison, culture, social media, cyber bowling. It's if anyone's going through a struggle in their life and feels that they're walking down this path that's a dark path, and they don't feel like they can see the light, then, to me, this is what that book's about. It's it's meant to show somebody, Hey, I'm I was, I'm walking alongside you right now, you're not alone in this. Uh. And and as you hear my story, you may start to see these connections, and then you'll be able to start pivoting the way that you view your own reality, and then we can hopefully get you to a place where you start to see that light off in the distance and you start walking toward it. So, um, that's essentially what the book is. In a nutshell, I've had to get really good at trying to nutshell it because it's just so much that I'm passionate about that's in the book. But uh, it's a story of self doubt to self belief and that that that path and how to get there. Um and and just yeah, that's that's the best way I can describe it. What's the name of the book? Where can people pick it up and find it. I don't know A agrees uh, And it's if you go on my Instagram, I keep everything funnel there. Click on the link in my bio and it'll take you to that Amazon link. It's on Amazon um for purchase. So to close here, Why why is this topic important to you? I mean, it's obviously important for you personally. You saw that this was your story. You wanted to work on things and move through things and grow as a human. But why do you I mean, why do you care if anybody else does it? Because I think we're all more alike than we realized. We all have these insecurities, but I think where a lot of us struggle as we don't address them, we just continue to suppress them. And the more we suppress them, we don't know if anyone else is going through it because we're not willing to have the conversations. This will tie into the episode from last night because it's I saw a lot of it and it really hit home with me where I was relating to a lot of the women relating to Zach as well, and where these insecurities can start to bubble up and when you feel that you're not able to talk about it because you're afraid of how it might be received. Then you end up getting into your own head, you end up projecting, you end up making these assumptions, and you can't be your one hundred percent authentic self and you either close off or you have an outburst of emotion. And so that's why I'm having these conversations. I thought it was just very timely and and you know, to watch the episode and to see this happening with a few within the individuals and the show, and I thought, this is not just show related though, this is real life related. Right. We oftentimes we struggle, but we just don't talk about it. And if we did, we'd realize that if you open up to the right people, it brings you closer together, it doesn't tear you farther apart. So that's why I'm talking about it because I'm like, hey, guys, look look at me. I'm happy and after everything I went through, and I'm opening up and I continue to do. So why am I opening up? Because I must be getting some type of positive response and it's helping me. So that's if someone sees that, they go, well, maybe I can do it too. And everyone that I talked to you. They do it and they feel a lot better and they think, why didn't I open up years ago? So that's why I'm having this conversation, just to get more people to feel comfortable with doing it. Yeah, well for me to you, you know my opinion. Um, we're probably close to the same age. How do you twenty nine three zero? Yeah, some thirty three okay, so we're not too far apart. But you know, I've I was young when I went on the show and have had you know, six and a half seven years of going through this process. And um, it's always interesting when you get to meet a lead. We didn't get to speak before your season, but it's always interesting for me when when I get to meet the lead post show, because things change. No matter if you believe there are going to or not right, the criticism happens. That's part of what you sign up for. You don't know it at the time, but you sign up to be criticized, and you sign up to be celebrated, and you signed up to be critiqued. Then you sign up for all these things because people watch the show for entertainment, and after a while, you kind of just accept that because it happens, and it happens to Everybody's happened to me, it's happened to you, it's happening to zac Um. But it's one of the coolest questions that I get to hear somebody ask, or maybe I get to ask to a lead Bachelor or Bachelor post show, is what do you want to do with this? Like you have, necessarily, the world's not your oyster right. You don't have every opportunity in the world. Nobody's gonna hire you to host the coolest, biggest show on TV, and most of the time you have to kind of figure out your own lane, which we talked about as well. But the big question is what do you want out of all of this or what do you want the world to benefit from from you having this platform? And it's it's incredible. Not everybody does it, and I didn't do it at first. I kind of had to learn the hard way, but it's incredible to see somebody a year out from their season, spending your platform in your time to try to benefit not only yourself but the fans and the people that have followed your story and our interest in your story. So that's kudos to you because the world will be a better place because of this book and because of having these conversations. And I think that's a big deal. I was going to ask you for me. I feel like I found my why. Um, and it's really cool to have gotten to that point. Did you did you feel like you found your why after the show? It? Did it kind of push you into figuring out who I am and what I want in life? Or were you already did you already know that prior to the show? Um? What what did the show kind of do for you outcome wise? When when you came off it? Because I know I know your backstory. I mean, I I guess I beat your record a record. I wasn't trying to be. You told two people that you love them, and I decided to I decided to go to the extra mile. So, um, but I I know you're well. I heard you were well received. But I mean, overall, what did the experience do you afterwards? I mean, did you have to do a deep dive as well and to your identity and figure out like what am I going to take from this and where do I go from here? It's a great question. Um. At first, I became very excited about the fame, and I didn't realize I was being excited about the fame, right, You'd be invited to these red carpets, you'd be at these parties, you'd still be on the cover of magazines. People will be talking about you. You'd be getting emails every day and turning down opportunities, and that slowly, not slowly, that quickly goes away, kind of like, yeah, it goes quick. But I was still doing cooler stuff than I'd ever done before. And there was a moment in time that it hit me. I was in an airport after an event where I met I forget who what actor. I think it was Samuel L. Jackson, And I called up my family and I was telling him this and they were like, that's awesome, Like how was he? And I was like, wait, that's not the response I was expecting. Like I don't know what I was expecting, but I was expecting you to think I was super cool for being at the same party as Samuel L. Jackson and like celebrating me because I was at the same party and now I've made it, and like they didn't. And then I called my friends kind of expecting the same response. And they didn't at all give me the same response. They never could. They never cared about what I was doing. They just wanted to hang out and watch football and group, yeah, I do. And I got very lonely, and so I called up one of my buddies, who's a good counsel to me and a very wise friend, and I I was telling him my feelings and my emotions here and like what I was expressing, and how I was getting angry at my family and my friends because they weren't celebrating me like I thought they should or would. And he goes, Ben, what if this whole thing was meant to be for something bigger than yourself? What if this was never meant to be about you? And that statement alone changed everything for me. Now, my work, my passions, and the things I really cared about existed before the show. But what the show did was it handed me a platform that allowed that why to be kind of catalyzed to a bigger like purpose. And so now I had this platform that wasn't about me standing relevant and wasn't about me staying famous, and wasn't about me making headlines. But now that platform allowed me to advocate, to share, to connect to build community around things that I already had a purpose in, but I just didn't feel like I can make the impact, Like I didn't know what my impact was within those organizations or those social causes until really the show and now I have, you know. Luckily, for me, I don't know where I would have been without the show. Luckily, that platform has handed me a the ability to have a skill set like I can now, you know, with a push of a button advocate on behappy people. So I think the show helped me afterwards just feel like I had a purpose in my why where I don't know. I hope I would have found that purpose without the show. I think I could have. I just don't I don't know how that journey would have looked. So Yeah, I mean the show helped a lot in my why, but it helped it was for the most part, it was it was a growing process for me, which it sounds like it is for you and you hope it is for every person that comes off the show, cast, member, or lead that the show helps them grow at some level. Yeah, I think what I've seen in my own as I've observed individuals as there's two ways you can go about it. You can become more egotistical because you can come off the show and say I was the guy or the gal and I'm the big time and everyone's been kissing my butt and they'll continue to and I'm I'm up here right. I've seen people just go completely through the roof with their ego, and then I've seen other individuals that have sacrificed to ego more than ever. They they see it and they say, this is bigger than me. You know, this is what I have now, I'm grateful for. But I'm going to stay humbled and I'm going to be able to use this for good however it may go. So it's hard, though, I don't blame anybody for getting a little egotistical. When everyone's patting you on the back and you're getting all these backstage events and everyone's telling you how great you are and how you know you're you're you know what doesn't stink, and everyone's just right there beside you, and so you get pumped up, pump up up, pump up. You're used to it, and then all of a sudden, like you said, it gets pulled out from you under you very quickly, and then you start to question like, well, am I just not who I used to be? Am I not worthy of that those compliments anymore? In reality was is people were probably pushing you up a little bit more than what you know. They probably treated you a little bit more in a higher regard than like what they maybe should have, because it was all a lot of those individuals who just around you and maybe want to be in the same room as you. But to your point, you know you got good friends when the entire time they're just like, I don't care, man, let's watch football. I don't want to want. I don't care about the fact that you met so and so or that you got this back. That's cool, buddy, But like you know, let's just talk life. But it's hard because you, as the lead, you balance that of you know, everyone puts me up here, So where do I land? Am I up here? Or am I here? Where do I? Where do I fit? And what are the expectations of me? Too? And there seems like there's so many especially being the lead, it's like perfection or nothing. If you're not perfect, good luck. And we can jump into that because I know we were talking about it. We'll talk about it coming up here, but I've was you know, I've seen some of the things that he's done and people have ripped him to shreds for and I'm opinionated on that and I got something to say about it when we get to that point, because I'm like, what do you expect out of someone to be perfect for two months? I mean, I'd love to see the relationships of everybody that seems to be condemning individuals, because I'm like, let's put a camera on you for two months and see if if we catch you at your lowest moment one time. Chances Sorry, we got sixty days to do so I'm sure we can. Yeah. Well, as we've teased, we're going to you can you can follow in the almost famous thread right after this episode, we're going to break down the Bachelor and the Bachelor headlines. It's going to be great, And I'm gonna try to play in that episode a little Devil's advocate to you because i want you to come at the positive perspective and I'm gonna push you a little bit so that we can really get to understand what it's like to be the lead and the good and the bad and the uglies and where you can mess up with all that. I'm excited to do that with you. I haven't done it with a with a co bachelor in a long time. But a final question for you on our little catch up here, Clayton, something else I've respected about you that I've watched from a distance is something that I can't claim to have had. I don't have a bad relationship with Lauren my X from the show. We have a good relationship right He's married, two kids, and I'm married, and we're living our two separate lengths. But there hasn't been really a place in time where there's been mutual public support. We never like really healed. We just kind of moved on, which is good and fine for where we're at now. But you and Susie seemed to support each other in a humorous way, also in a very real way, in a way that seems very healthy to me, like something I'm learning from from an outsider, and it's convicting me in a lot of ways that I wish I would have maybe done things differently, or at least tried to do things differently. So if you can, obviously people care and want to know what is your relationship like with Susie today and also within that if you could speak to how you got to the Police of health, um, so that you could be like you two are today, How in the world did that happen? And was it intentional and unintentional? Just give us some insight. Yeah, you know, I think it took a conscious effort and decision to decide how are we going to move forward with this? I think when you when you experience a breakup, there's so much pain that's involved, right, and usually we're at the height of our emotions, and that's when we can say things we don't mean we can we can go down this this dark path of attacking because we're hurt, right, Like, we feel that a part of us was stripped from us when we weren't ready for it to be taken, and so and then we start to think, well, what did I do wrong? It must have been my fault. Well, then we'll go from that to well, no, it's not me, it's them, they're the problem. And then it doesn't help that we have friends and family that say they don't know what they're looking for, they're missing out on a good person, and so then they validate, they validate that that belief of it's not my fault, it's their fault. And so then you start to think about all the things that they did that you didn't like, and you go, yeah, they're not worthy, and so then you start to think, well, yeah, this is their fault. And I think that's where in the past I've had this with relationships where then I start to point the finger. Somebody asked me why, you know, why why did so and so and you not work out because she had this issue or she did this and I couldn't put up with it. But I didn't like that. I never when I did that in my past relationships, I always felt that I harbored this motion, that I could never let go of it, and it hurts, and it closed me off to other relationships because I thought, I don't want to go back to that. I don't want to experience that again. So then I thought, let me reframe this. How what is it I feel like I should be able to walk away from a relationship and be grateful, because why do we have this negative view point on somebody that we spend years of our life with and all of a a sudden we act like we hate them and we have nothing but bad things to say about them. It's like, what about all the good times you had three years or however many, how long it was, how about all the good times? You stayed with him for a reason. You loved him for a reason, You fell in love with him for a reason, So what are those reasons? And I think for me, I started to think about all that with Susie. I thought why did I fall in love with this woman? And I remember I always thought every time I was around her, she made me want to be a better person, and so I every time I woke up, I was trying to be a better version of myself. And she pushed me, and she held me accountable, and she was there and consoled me when I needed it. And there's so many things. I could sit here for an hour and say all the things that she did for me, But I had to reflect upon that every time I would get emotional and think why did this not work out between us? Why couldn't you try harder to make this work? I had to take a step back and think, everything happens for a reason. I believe in that. But understand all the things that she did for you, and you wouldn't be the person you are today if it wasn't for her. And so I kept when I had negative self talk, I kept instantly putting positive self talk in. I was like, second I had a negative thought about it, I'm like, nope, nope, nope, don't replace that. And I kept fighting it until finally I thought, you know what, I am a legitimately better person because of her, and if I would have never met her, I would not be half the person I am today. And then I thought back to my other relationships previously, and I thought, well, she taught me, you know, the she taught me manners. This, this girl taught me the power of chivalry. This this she taught me the ability to show my emotions and open up. And so I thought, you know, there's all this positive things that I've I've taken from people in my life. I just need to remember those when I remember that person, so I have a positive association with them. And then what I found was all the negativity that I heart harbored m was just pain. But really I let it all go. And so when I think of my exes now, I think all the lessons they taught me, not the pain that they caused me. And that's why I can always have a positive outlook on them and I can speak highly of them because the first when you say Susie, I think of all the things she did for me, not all the pain she caused me. And so that reframe has been critical, and I've been really grateful to have learned that, because now I mean I'm her biggest supporter, and I'll be you know, I'll be anyone else's bigges supporter that I've crossed paths in the past, because I'm like, you helped me now, I want to be able to help you, and if I can build you up, I'm here for it. Because that positivity is contagious and otherwise more angry harbor. It just eats at you. And I got tired of that anger eating at me. It made me a miserable person. How in the world do you do that? Then? With the girl that said on TikTok that she met you one night on a couch or something, how in the world do you bring that positive perspective into that situation? You know, I guess I should say this in a fantasy land there you would love to have there always be a positive that comes out of every situation, right I'm not trying to tell people there's I think there's such thing as like overdoing it, and there's a there's a term I'm just blanking on it when you are overtly positive and it's like you're just trying to force positivity. I'm not saying that everyone should just be like, oh, this really bad circumstance to happen to me. I need to find the positive. No, we should like sometimes there are just some unfortunate situations that happened to us, you know. I think though, in that it's circumstance. With that girl, it taught me a lesson that there that people come from all different backgrounds and you have to understand that everyone you interact with has a different mindset. For me, it taught me that to practice, you know, forgiveness. She taught me the power forgiveness because I thought, you know what, this girl is out of line. But she's also young, she's immature, and you know, five years from now, she won't be hopefully the same person. She'll look back and be like, yeah, you know, second thought, I probably shouldn't have done that. And so for me, that's the lesson she taught me was I need to look at people and give them grace and understand that you know what, hey, you did this. It was dumb, whether or not I believe like you actually believe it was me or you just made it up. One day, you know, I thought maybe she possibly made it up for just more more, you know, more followers. But one day she'll look back at that and be like, you know, I wish I wouldn't have done that, and so and I feel bad for it. And so I try to see people as not just one fixed point in time, but you know, how this individual can be over the how they can grow the same way I did. And I'm like, you know, people make mistakes. I should just forgive them for it, unless they continue to make the same mistake at some point you say, okay, that's just who you are. But I guess, yeah, forgiveness is what that situation taught me. Because I was angry. I mean I really want I wanted to I wanted to see her to the high heavens, like I was so ready to bury her. But then I had to step back and go Clayton again, your emotion, you want to bury her? How are you going to feel about that? If you ruin her? If you ruin her and subject her to all that pain and everyone comes in her DMS and starts telling her how how terrible she is. Now you've impacted her her health negatively, and you don't want that. So it helped me. She taught me to kind of like step back and let my emotions subside and then make a judgment. Call man, the last year has been a big year for you. It's gonna be a good year for so many who pick up this book and just continue to follow along with you. But it's been a big year. Um. It sounds like from me from my perspective on growth and understanding and forgiveness and positivity and all these things that, yeah, you know, I would think that you look back on years from now and be like, I'm glad I went through that season. Even you know there's some unfortunate parts, but I'm glad I went through that season because I'm guessing that your your impact is going to be great thousand percent. Yeah. I the person I am today is because of everything I went through, so very grateful, um, and and so much positivity I had so ben I know, I got I know, I got asked the co host, So I really feel like I'm gonna start firing questions off of you, so we're gonna we're gonna balance this thing back out here. I appreciate you checking in on me, but I think, uh, it was that was the final question. I think it's time for us to do a little deep dive and to talk some bachelors. Man, all right, I felt I feel took me. It took me back. I kind of, I kind of felt a little. I was like, WHOA, this is weird watching the show again. I don't know how I feel about this. Yeah, we are going to balance the act after this episode, which ends right now, tune into the next episode to hear Clayton and I Clayton being positive, me being critical of this season of The Bachelor. Follow the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.