On the Beck Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef invest start changing it with the bec Del Cast. Jamie caivin, Oh what a day, What a lovely day? Witness me. It's my birthday. I'm oh, my god, I get it. I get it. I understand. What a lovely day for it to be my birthday. It's always a lovely day for it to be your birthday. Happy birthday, Thank you, I love you. What a day this is going to be. I mean, this is We're not recording this on your birthday, but I feel like it's good. We your birthday is tends to be kind of an event. Yeah. I really think that I'm a special person and really think that my birthday is a special day for everyone and not just me. Well, you're not a huge holiday person, so this is your holiday. Like it all makes sense. Um, I think I maybe I gave you or I didn't give it to you because I haven't, but a part of your birthday present the spirit channeled survivor of Titanic book, I have to give to you amongst other things that will be revealed at a later time. Happy birthday, thank you, and we're doing a special I'm I'm excited. I'm excited for this episode. I've been kind of nervous for it because anytime we go into an episode where there's like a lot of your like, there's just so much. But but I'm glad. I'm glad that we're doing this. Here, we are same, back in heaven where we live. And what a lovely day it is. Uh. This is the Bechtel Cast. My name is Caitlin Darante. My name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast where we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechtel Tests simply as a jumping off point for our discussion. Jamie, I need you to tell me on this lovely day, huh, what the Bechdel test is. It's your birthday. I'm happy to oblige. So. The Bechdel Test, sometimes called the Buckdel Wallace test, is a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel. There's many per mutations of this test, however, the one we use requires the following that therapy two characters of a marginalized gender. Sometimes sometimes my one of my signapps is collapses mid sentence. Uh, this is like our audition monologue that we do every week, right, because it's like it feels so like, it feels very rehearsed sometimes when I'm saying it, because I just like have it so committed to memory that I'm like, wait, did I like accidentally forget one of the That's It's just it's a whole thing. Every time I trip myself up because I I worry because it's so grained in my brain that I'm going to switch a word and neither of us will notice because we're just like, yep, that's the monologue. This is our tomorrow and Tomorrow and tomorrow creeps in this petty pace. Wait, what is that a reference to? I don't think that this doesn't pass the back because this is it's a Shakespeare passage. Everyone in my high school had to memorize this one Shakespeare passage Tomorrow and Tomorrow and Tomorrow creeps in this petty pace to the last syllable of recorded time. I already sucked it up, and all the shakespeare heads are going to be like, you fucking do fist as as I was saying, on your birthday, no less of all days, of all days. So this also isn't coming out on my birthday, I don't think, because my birthday is a Tuesday and we always release episodes on But who knows, maybe we'll mix it up this week. I don't know. Look, you'll find out when you're listening. You'll know. And then if you're listening to it, not the day it comes out, which is probably a lot of people, you'll be like, shut up, tell us what the Bechdel cantest is. Well, it's this, here's the one we use. Now I'm really going to suck it up. We were calling. We require that we our version, you've got to have two characters of a marginalized gender with names speak to each other about something other than a man for more than two lines of dialogue. And these lines of dialogue should be narratively significant in some way, shape or form, not throw away dialogue for crying out loud and uh, you know, because of the movie we're covering, it's smooth sailing baby, not a problem. It's not a problem from the director that brought you Babe Pig in the City and Happy Feet one and two. Oh my gosh, I found someone took it upon themselves to write a passage on scholarly journal Wikipedia of about the thematic similarities between happy Feet and mad Max Fury Road and it actually completely scans. Yeah. Well, I talked about happy Feet on blank check and I pointed out speaking of being scholarly in a very scholarly way, I pointed out some of those same similarities. So an environmental family story. Also, like Hugo Weaving plays this penguin that has this like extremist religious dogma that he's like trying to foist on to the other penguins in the penguin community, much like a Morton Joe is like foisting this extremist religious dogma. Look, there's a lot of there's a lot of similarities between Mad Max Fury Road and happy Feet, is all we're saying. I love our canonical pronunciation of happy feet, happy feet, happy feet. Uh, there's it reminds me of There's is one acting choice that Tom from Succession makes, and I believe that that's his Christian name um where every time he says he's talking about how Chiv cheated on him on on their wedding night, he says, on our wedding night. And I'm like, why is he saying it like that? But he says it like it has. He keeps saying wedding night, and it drives me. It drives me horny. I love it. Wedding night, happy feet, wedding to night, happy feet. I'm like, is that Shakespeare? No, that's maybe I am bic pentameter. No, it's not. You know, it's something though, it's something though, it's you know, I trust, I trust, I believe that it's got to be something. And today we're talking about mad Max fury Road. Yeah, we are Magic Mike and Mad Max in the same couple of I mean, we're really describing these these monosyllabic men, aren't we. Yeah, so I guess the Magical Michael version of Mad Max would be like mat madgening Maxwell. That doesn't quite work, but yeah, I guess. I guess. So. Also, Steven Soderberg loves this movie. I found so many quotes from him being like WHOA. I was like, Wow, Magic Mike, Mad Max, It's all coming together. Do you think that he loved the original Mad Max so much that he subconsciously channeled it into magic. Mike, maybe I think we should go with this theory. Okay, no one correct us. It's Caitlin's birthday. We can't be wrong today, exactly. I can be wrong. You can yell at me except that. Yeah, but I am infallible today. You're untouchable. You should say anything really fucked up? Alright, Caitlin. Okay. So, and and last last thing. If if you're if you've been with us since the beginning, almost six years at this point, and you're like, hey, didn't these ladies cover Mad Max at some point? Yes, we did. It was extremely early in the podcast, one of our first episodes. Yeah, and there was a couple early episodes that of about a year and a half ago, We're like, we want to redo these. We've learned so much through doing this show and just through the general evolution of society and time, and this was one of the movies we've always been wanting to redo. So it's not in your imagination, but this is the all new and improved Matt Max Fury Road episode Exactly. We are now better equipped to tackle the discussion that we want to have around this movie, especially because it has since recording that original episode. It has become one of my favorite movies of all time. Hence also why we're doing it for my birthday, and since it came out, because we covered it like about a year after it came out, I think roughly something like that, maybe yeah, because it came out in yeah, this summer of and then we recorded the episode early. It was not that long after. And now it's you know, considered for many the greatest action movie ever made. So we can talk about how the perception of the movie has some evolved as well. Certainly there's there's just there's you know, the passage of time and can I just say from s to now no notes societally, so, um, I don't think anything has really happened now we're living in the greatest timeline. Um so. So Caitlin the birthday gal, please do tell me what is your history with Mad Max Fury Road. I did see it in theaters when it came out, I think probably opening weekend. I was pretty jazzed to see it based on the trailers in the marketing and it thing, and I was blown away and have only developed a greater appreciation for it more and more as time goes on. I would say, I've seen this movie somewhere between like sixty and seventy times. Yeah, I didn't know it was that serious. It is. It's pretty serious because it's one of those movies that I am never not in the mood to watch. So like I am just I will throw it on. It's my plane movie. So anytime I on a flight, I will watch this movie both times. So on my journey to the place and then on my journey back home. I watch it on dates all the time. Uh an emphasis on all the time, because I'm always going on dates. Having a Greg, you do go on many successful dates, and I would not call them successful, but sorry, go ahead, it's your birthday. I'm I'm I'm fluffing. I'm fluffing it's your birthday. Yes, No, I'm so good at dating. I'm so good at finding people I'm compatible with. It's an incredible phenomenon. It's you can't stop falling in love. That it is good to have go to date movies. I my no, the jinks I was gonna says, I've got to change it. I've got to grow as a person. But that's one way where I very firmly I have not that's okay, that's okay. You know, sometimes it's fine to be absolutely static. Here's in some ways it is comforting. But in that one, I would say, maybe it could it could go. Um, Caitlin, were you Did you ever watch the original Mad Max movies? Yes, so I have seen all of those, but I have no real attachment to them, especially compared to the Hatchman I feel to this movie. That was what I was curious about, because it seems like there's a few camps of fans of this franchise, some of whom are like this movie, and then some of whom are like all Max Cannon. Yeah, um no, I am not thrilled with any of the others, mainly that Mel Gibson cannot stomach watching anything he's in except for Chicken Run, which you only hear his voice. So I give it a path and it still feels bad. And it still feels bad. Um yeah, I do. I mean, there will will be talking about in plenty today, but I do think that George Miller is a very interesting case of a filmmaker who has demonstrated a lot of growth throughout his career. Although there's a lot that I learned about the protection of this movie. That sounded, uh, not great. We'll get there, yeah, for sure. Um, but it's really only this installment Fury Road that I have any attachment to, so much that I got a tattoo of the war rig that Furioso drives on my arm, and that I think concludes my relationship with this movie. Jamie, what is your history and relationship with Mad Max Fury Road? Um? I had only seen it to prepare for the first time. We did this episode about five years ago. That was the first time I saw it. Didn't like it the first time. This was in a phase of life where I was deeply against any aesthetic I perceived to be remotely steampunk. Look, I was in my early twenties. I was just I. I had a hot take. I clung to it. I don't stand by it, I will say, speaking of growth, Speaking of growth, I really I've seen this movie a couple of times in the interim, Um, I think at least once with you, but I like it more or each time I see it, I feel like it. It has. It has a lot to do with just like me understanding more about movies than I did six years ago, understanding more about feminism, than I did six years ago, understanding more about environmentalism than I did sing here, and also like having a growing appreciation for action movies. It's still not my genre. I don't think it will ever be my genre. However, I feel like I can now appreciate a well crafted, paste looking ass action movie. So I've really grown to Uh. I really love this movie. And I and I had a really daunting, slash fun time preparing for this episode. There's so much to go through, there's so much to talk about. It's very dense, but it doesn't feel dense. It's such I mean, it's I guess it's like it's so dystopian. It's a dystopian romp. It is a romp, but it is it's a serious upsetting. I think you you nailed it. It's it's not totally light yet. It is still a romp, but it is literally never not moving. That's the beauty of romps. It's a spectrum and it's very inclusive. In this essay, we will no but for real, probably for a couple of hours. So that's my history. Uh. Used to be a hater, and then I got educated and I grew up literally as how I would describe what happened that warms my heart? Is it my favorite George Miller movie? It is not. That is still Babe, but this is a close second because Happy Feet is one we I think we've maybe talked about this in our Babe episode which is on the Matreon, and I think it's quite a good episode. You did an incredible segment on how movie animals are treated in that episode. But in any case, Happy Feet is one of those movies that I know I have seen at least three times, and I could not tell you a single thing that happens in the movie. I have the same issue with a lot of Wes Anderson movies where I'm like, I remember how it looks, I remember how I was feeling, couldn't tell you what happened. I could try to tell you, and this isn't the time or place, because I've seen it a couple of times to prepare for the blank Check episode I did. And I think I'm in the minority because I think that movie absolutely sucks shit. No, I think that people didn't. I don't think that there it was like nominated for Academy Awards like I think it was like, but people responded to it well like audiences. Was it well reviewed? It was well reviewed? Bizarre? I mean, I understand why kids, my my. Anyways, you know what, ultimately, if Happy Feet hadn't performed while the box office in critically, we wouldn't have Mad Max Fury Road, now, would we? Or so I read is true? Yeah? So you know, no matter where you fall on the Happy Feet criticism enjoyment, o'met or um, you gotta hand it, you gotta foot it to the Happy Feet because if that boring ass movie I can't remember with Elijah Wood Penguin, am I correct? Correct? Correct? You know, then we wouldn't have this awesome movie we're talking about today. True? Should we start talking about it? Yeah? Let me do the recap, shall I? Let's do it. So we hear some sound bites at the very beginning about water and fossil fuel shortages. We hear about wars that have happened as a result. We hear about like nuclear skirmish. We see a barren wasteland, and then we meet Max Rockatanski played by Tom Hardy. We get some voice over from him in which he says that the only thing he cares about is survival. Max is then pursued by war boys who capture him and take him to this place called the Citadel, which is ruled by and Morton Joe played by Hugh keys Burn. He is this tyrannical leader who controls access to people's food and water in the Citadel. Right. He has a bunch of people working for him, many of whom are his offspring Others. On the Wikipedia page someone it might not be true by the time you listen to this episode, but someone keeps referring to one of the sons as his large adult son um. Would that be Rectus erectus. Yes, yes, Rectus erectus is repeatedly referred to as a large adult son and uh an accurate description of the character. It is hard to tell because of how they're at this. They're stylized. You're like, which which son is which? It's confusing, sure, but that's the point that. Yeah. Others are people that he has either enslaved or manipulated via this religious ideology where a Morton Joe has convinced them that he is their redeemer and they will ride with him eternal on the highways of Valhalla. It is all I mean, and I do I do appreciate the use of Like any time there's like Norse mythology popping up, you're like, mmmm, this is probably not a character I'm going to end up rooting for, which is an interesting story convention that pops up all the time. Yeah. Then we meet Furiosa, played by Charlie's Thearren. She seems to be pretty high up in a Morton Joe's ranks. She drives a war rig which she boards to head to Gastown and the Bullet Farm, to neighboring communities that barter and trade with the Citadel. We will soon find out that they have similar tyrannical warmongering leadership. As Furiosa is driving, she veers off course. We are not sure why at first, but then we realized that in her war rig, furio Set has Morton Joe's wives a k a. Women who he has enslaved and who he assaults in order to bear him healthy offspring, and Furiosa is attempting to rescue these women and escape once and for all, and they are headed to somewhere called the Green Place. When Morton Joe discovers this, he sends out a bunch of his war boys in their vehicles to chase after and catch Furiosa and bring the wives back again. I just love the simple turn of phrase that is war boys, because that's how I would describe them if I didn't know what they were called. And that is just what they're called. That it's just what they're called. Yes, this movie is perhaps not subtle, no, but but you know that. But that's how we why we go to action movies. We don't go to action movies for the subtlety. I go to Babe for subtlety. And I kind of mean that. Yeah. So one such war boy is Nuts, played by Nicholas Holt, who Max has been rigged up to as Nux is blood bag because a lot of the war boys are dying from radiation poisoning and they need regular blood transfusions. Right, So you immediately see how characters of all genders are reduced to the basic functions of their body by and Morton Joe at all, Right, exactly, So Nucks wanting to participate in this chase to catch Furiosa, he takes Max along with him in this pursuit. Uh. Then we get the first big chase of the movie, where Furiosa manages to lose a Morton Joe and his war party in a sandstorm, but afterward Max finds her and the other women, the wives who are splendid and her played by Rosie Huntington's Whiteley. Okay, transformers. Oh that's the only other thing I know. She wasn't got it yep capable played by Riley Kyo, who I've seen this movie a bazillion times and when I was watching Zola to prep for that episode, did not realize it was the same actor. I mean, the power of a red Die job cannot be understated. I think she's great in this movie, too. Agree, Yeah, I mean I think all the all the wives are are very talented for sure. We've also got Toast the Knowing played by Zoe Kravitz. We've got name Cheeto, the fragile played by Courtney Eaton, and we've got name and we've got the Dag played by Abby Lee. So when Max comes upon them, he and Furious to fight, and Max attempts to hijack Furious as war rig and leave all of the women to be captured by a Morton Joe, but Furiosa has kill switches enabled on the rig, so Max cannot drive away, and she bargains with him, and then they all set off together, with Furiosa driving but Max holding them all hostage. Then Furiosa drives to this canyon where she has bartered for safe passage through, but a Morton Joe has caught back up to them, along with the people eater of gas Town and the bullet farmer from You'll never guess this the Bullet Farm. I do appreciate. Yeah, again, just with the simplicity of the names. It's helpful. There's a lot of characters, and I just like how he names them by what they do or sort of how you would kind of describe what you think they might do. Right, It's helpful. It is so wait quick question, Yeah, is it Nicholas Holt that you have a huge crush on? I do have an enormous crush on Nicholas Holt, is true, Okay, I was just checking in about that. Thank you for confirming and taking away love a little aside where we simply cannot pass the Bectel test. Look, we're no one's asking life to pass the Actel test, although it, you know, could be it would probably be a generally better experience life, but um, you know, it's a quick detour to be horny about Nicholas Holt, no further questions. I also didn't realize that Nux is Nicholas Holt, because I mean, it's a it's a really good performance, but it could be any person in there. A lot of his recognizable features are they're all kind of like buff looking slenderman bob a Duke types. The war Yeah, yeah, yeah, the war Boys are Yeah, just to pack a slenderman Zimbaba Dukes. Yes. Okay. So with these three war parties in hot pursuit, everything goes wrong in this like situation where Furious is trying to barter for safe passage. There's another big chase. This one is my favorite one of the movie, by the way, during and after which Max and Furiosa go from being enemies where he is holding her hostage. Two allies who are working together who are slowly realizing that they have not too dissimilar backstory. Sure. Also during this chase, Angered is killed or maybe at this point just fatally wounded, which slows down and morton Joe for a while because she was his favorite and she also had a nearly full term pregnancy and he is concerned about the baby surviving. So this allows Furioso, Max and the rest of the wives to get away and they drive onward toward the green Place. Meanwhile, Capable discovers nuts on the rig. He's having a crisis. The two of them become friends, and he switches sides and becomes an ally too. Furiosa and friends. I would watch that. I would watch that children's show that's spin off. Yes. Meanwhile and Morton, Joe and the war parties are not far behind again, and they're all driving through this like marshy swampy area. Everyone is getting stuck. Our friends get unstuck with Nux's help, and they continue onward and eventually they come upon the Volvelini, this band of women who live in the middle of the desert. It's the clan not a very subtle nation. I was like, are they saying Volvolini and it's it's volvoly It does sound like it's vagina pasta that is being described for me. For me, it sounded like a plate full of vagina. Yeah, I don't disagree. They are also known as the Many Mothers. They are the clan that Furiosa used to be a part of until she was kidnapped, stolen, and taken to the citadel. They tell Furiosa that the green place no longer exists. Earth had become to sour, the water became poison, nothing would grow, so they had to get out of there. Not a relatable thing at all there are, I mean yeah, and each time you watch this movie, you're just like, wof, had you told me that in six years? Perhaps not the aesthetic, but the water wars. They're a common baby people and maybe I need to stop doing this, or maybe I need to do it more. But anytime someone where, anytime someone refers to how things might be in like twenty or thirty years from now, I'm like, yeah, that's plausible, assuming we're not all killing each other during the water Wars. And then they're like oh um uh yep, a little bit nervous. But now people are like, oh no, do you have information? So that is I think a feasible reality. I think now more than ever, keep plugging the water wars. People are gonna love to hear you say I told you so all the time water Wars are on, and then they'll shoot me in my face and then and then steal my water. Yeah. I mean if if this Australian documentary is do we believe Yes, it's very possible. Okay, Furious to learning about the Green Place no longer existing is absolutely devastating to her, especially because there's now no place that she can kind of find this redemption she was looking for in terms of like bringing these women to safety and just having a place where they can stay and survive. And then Max is like, well, wait a minute, what if we go back to the citadel and take control while it's undefended. Sorry, I'm gonna let that loud motorcycle pass Martin Joe. So they turn around and charge back towards the citadel and Morton Joe realizes what they're doing, so he goes after them again. There's one last, you know, big act three climactic chase. There's a lot of ups and downs. We've got Joe trying to abduct the wives. Furious so gets stabbed, but then she crawls onto with Morton Joe's vehicle and rips his face off. Oh is that a And and speaking of face off, if you head of urture Matreon this one, there's gonna be some faces coming off. Look big month for no face. This is the right and no face because no face in spirited way. This is no face may wild, Oh God, the best of luck to future us trying to observe this a second time. It's gonna be all to be original horror movies. Although did you notice there Roku originals? I think Roku Originals. I'll put this on wax. I think Roku Originals is trying to is trying to do something, because that that new weird al movie starring Daniel Radcliffe is a Roku original, is it? I did not realize that. I didn't realize they had two nickels to rub together. Turns out they've got Harry Potter money wild um okay, So Furious pulls a face off Parentheses, starring Nicolas Cage and John Travolta. She rips and morton Joe's face off, but she's also very badly injured. So Max gives her a blood transfusion and he's like, by the way, my name is Max. And then she's able to get right back up on her happy feet, and she's looking like a babe. She's looking like a babe, and she's back in this. She's in the City Dell on her happy feet, happy and another George Miller movie, wait, the other one, and the Witches of Eastwick. I just got the Wives of Eastwick with her Oh my word, wow, is Lorenzo's oil at George Lorenzo's oil? Yeah? What does that mean? I don't need to know. It's fine, let's never talk about it again. Okay, not my business. Which is a east Wick though? Check out that episode on our Matreon. Everyone. Yeah, we have Actually we're kind of like almost Miller completionists, wow in a way, minus Lorenzo's oil. Okay, So Max is like, my name is Max because earlier he refused no ship. And then they arrive at the citadel, they gain control of it, the implication being Furiosa is the new leader. They unleash water, so the unleash the crack. Yeah, the people now have access to the water. And then Max SLINKs away because he's a lone ranger or whatever, and that is how the movie ends. So let's take a quick break and will come back to discuss, and we're back. Where would you like to begin? Uh? We I know we both have truly absurd amount of notes and things to go through. Where where would you like to begin? My birthday friend, thank you so much. I would like to start with I don't know if I want to start with what I really appreciate about the movie or what missteps I think the movie makes, because there are certainly some of those. Yes, there certainly are and I and there, I mean, I guess let's start there, because I think that that list, uh, while there's plenty to talk about, is generally shorter. So I found some writing about this. But one thing that stood out to me the first time I saw this movie and still does now is um because this is such broad storytelling, uh. And I find it frustrating because it's like George Miller finds so many ways to subvert a lot of common action tropes and stock character assumptions in this movie. But I do think he uses um atypical bodies to indicate evil or lack of morality quite a lot in yes movie. Yeah, And it's it's a complicated discussion because disability is treated differently or atypical bodies are treated differently based on the character. Yes, because there is a lot of disability visibility in this movie, but it is used in different ways. So on one hand, you have Furiosa, the protagonist of the movie. She has a physical disability. Her I think left arm has been amputatd below the elbow. She uses a mechanical arm, and attention is drawn to this, but not in a way that's ever like she's disabled and she's so bitter about it, the way that disabled characters are often treated in media. It's just a part of her character. She's presented in the movie as being extremely physically competent. She's a strong fighter, she's a skilled marks person, and her disability is never shown as impeding her skills in any way. Right, And we also see her with and without the mechanical arm. Yeah, right, And it's never like it's never commented on or drawn attention to positive or negative. Like, it's just neutral. This is just an aspect of her character. We are given no information about it other than just seeing it visually. We don't know any kind of backstory regarding this. But it's just presented as one of the many aspects of her character in a way that to me felt like it had a normalizing effect, which I think is one of the goals when it comes to representing disability in movies. But then you have a character like and Morton Joe who is covered in tumors, presumably having radiation poisoning. He also uses breathing apparatus, and his disability is used to make him seem like a more formidable opponent, especially like in the way that the mask that he uses just like aesthetically makes him seem scarier. Yeah, I mean, and it's as with a lot of these issues in the movie. It's it very much has to do with framing and music and like how these atypical qualities are introduced to you, because it's very I mean, it's like, there couldn't be a more villain intro than showing a morton Joe's body at the at the opening right to the movie. It's very very clear how you're supposed to feel about him. It's like movie shorthand for like, look how grotesque he is. Obviously he's the villain. Look at this breathing apparatus he uses, and I guess maybe you could make the argument that, like, of course this type of tyrannical dictator would wear something to make him seem more intimidating, because his mask is this sort of grotesque, exaggerated thing with like huge teeth that looks like an animal skull. But because there's such a long history of this specific thing in media of disability being used to make a villain seem more intimidating or scarier or more unattractive, this choice just feels extremely pointed and completely unnecessary. Yeah, and like beneath what the movie generally tends to be as well. Right, And then like I remember talking about this on our Casino Royal episode where our guest Cannie Smobily brought up that villains are often given asthma or some other type of like breathing, and I was like, of course, Darth fade Arth and I was born in it. Isn't that another Tom Hardy character? Bain? Yeah, Bain, I never I don't know Bain's name. I just go I was born on it. And people know what I'm talking about. Tom Hardy is so uh just exhausting to hear about any anecdote with him. You're just like I am annoyed and asleep. But boy, you can't take that line read from him, Kenya. You can't take uh, you can't take the Bain line, and you can't take my favorite Tom Hardy moment. And then I mean, I know we are going to discuss him, but I just not I mean whatever method not necessary, okay, which we'll get to because Charlie Sarron had just a great moment for like, uh, stop making my life difficult. Um, But I do I do really like his line read of like suggesting we go back the way we came. Like that's you know, he was born in it, baby. There's one thing I know about Tom Hardy. He's born in IT. And I will say, not only do I not mind him, I would even go so far as to say I like Tom Hardy. I may regret saying this at a later date, but for now I'm cool with Tom Hardy. Generally, he's fine. I just have a general general dislike of method actors and the stories you tend to hear. He's definitely not the worst of the method actors, but it does sound like he has made the lives of his co stars very unpleasant at different times in his career. Um. And of course, when we say Tom Hardy was born into IT, we mean that he was born into a wealthy arts family. He was born in it, um, and that's why he gets to be a professional actor. He was born and it did. I realized that his dad's name is Chips Hardy question mark Chips plural, Yeah, like the ones in the Bags Chips Partney. Anyways, Um, back to this discussion. Okay, So there's another layer of this where Morton Joe and one of his sons Rictus Erectus a k a. His large adult son who also uses an oxygen tank to help him breathe. Both of their breathing apparatuses are used to either kill or injure those characters in some way, where Furiosa rips Joe's mask off and also his face off starring Nicolas Cage and John Travolta heard of it, and Max uses Rictus Erectus's oxygen tank to beat him in the face. So it's just another layer of like not only our disabilities being used to further villainize these villains, but then also the apparatus they use because of their disability is then used against them violently, which feels especially pointed. So there's that. Um, there are other characters like the people Eader you know has severe inflammation in his feet. I think that and his obesity are his traits that are intended to make him seem grotesque and more villainous. Then you see a lot of disability in the people who live of in the citadel. Some are citizens who I think you can assume survived nuclear war, some are probably just dealing with malnutrition. It mostly feels like these characters are just used as a part of the world building, which because we know nothing about them and they're just sort of scenery, it feels like pointed set dressing. Yeah. Sort of similar is the character of Corpus Colossus played by Quentin Kenahan, who is one of the Morton Joe's sons. We do not learn anything about that character, and just in general, none of these disabled characters or characters with atypical bodies are given any focus in this story. All of the major characters, with the exception of Furiosa and you could argue Knucks, who is also affected by radiation poisoning, All the rest of the main characters that we are rooting for are able bodied. They are very attractive by Western beauty standards, and even I would argue Furiosa and Nuts are kind of able to pass as able bodied, especially compared to the characters like Morton Joe and the people Eater, where again their disabilities are are used to further villainize them or its characters who we learn nothing about, which I do also feel has to do at least in part with how the characters are framed, where Furiosa, like Furious, has a mechanical arm, but it's not brought to your attention explicitly all the time, in the way that when a villain has a disability, your eye is constantly being very very intentionally drawn to it. Yea. And of course, of these main characters like Furiosa, Nux and Morton, Joe and the People Leader, they are played by actors who are not disabled. So that's something that we come upon again and again. Yeah, not great, not great at all, simply not great. Sort of related to the discussion of bodies. One of the things that it took me a while for this to click for me, and I'm honestly embarrassed about how long it took. But so the women, the quote unquote wives that Furiosa is trying to bring to safety, are all very traditionally attractive by Western beauty standards. That didn't take. That's not the thing that took me a while to figure out that I obviously noticed quite obvious. Yes, it's very very obvious. Zoe crab is there, so we like several professional models are among the people cast in those roles. The thing that I was like, wait a minute, So we see a group of women at the Citadel who are again used for the very kind of like basic function of like bodily function. They're they're hooked up to breast pumps. They're basically treated like milk cows. And they are all fat women who I think Western beauty standards would consider not attractive. And again, with the way that the camera is framing and drawing your eye, it seems like the movie is not pushing against that in any way. Right. Yeah, So the thing that I was like, what the fuck FURIOUSA doesn't try to save them, Like for unknown reasons, what the hell? Like, were they not hot enough to save? Were they not considered? What's the deal with that? Why were they not among the women that God? I mean, because there, you know, I always want to get furious that the benefit of the doubt. She makes it seem she makes it seem as if she's done stuff like this before. Perhaps that is a separate trip. We're also told that the wives explicitly asked her to help them do this. She didn't take them. They begged her to go, says Miss Giddy. Yeah, but yeah, I also picked up on that as well, where it's again, most of the characters, or many of the characters who are not you know, classically Western beauty standard slim and and look a very particular way like they are treated as said dressing, and that is very much Yeah, how how those characters are presented. Yeah, I just I would have liked a version of this story where even if it was the wives, there's gotta be a better name for them. But even if it was their idea for Furious to take them away from the citadel, couldn't Furious to be like, hey, hey, you guys in like the milking room, I'm I'm going on a trip. I'm saving some people want to come come on. Yeah, At very least I guess that they, they along with the rest of the citadel, are are liberated at the end of the flim We do see another shot of them at the end. Yes, they are, they are freed, but I think, yeah, the larger point here is that there are no fat characters who are heroes who we are rooting for exactly, which is just kind of another way in which this very broad movie does not push back on very well worn movie media stereotypes in a way that would have been so simple not to like that true, Like, there's no reason that one of the I don't know what else, one of the his wives, but they are being sex trafficked. I mean, what one of the what should we let's let's come up with something right now. One of the women in beige, the women, the women in gauze, Yeah, one of the I mean one of the there there's no reason one of the gauzy gauzy women, Um, couldn't couldn't have been a fat woman. There's just there's just simply no reason. Yeah, there's It's it's interesting because, yeah, this movie is less than ten years old, but already you're like, oh, I mean, based on how we are needing to discuss it a second time, you can already you can still pick up on things that were dated at that time, that probably were not commented on extensively at the time. But it says there's been so much written about this movie when it came out, but also just over the years. It's interesting to kind of watch how people's views on how bodies are treated in this movie. I wanted to quickly go back to the Tom Hearty thing because there is have you read about the confrontation between him and Charlie's barren, not extensively, so please feel free to fill me in. Okay, so this is not I mean, I didn't know very much about the production of this movie. It sounded like an absolutely hellacious shoot that went on for like nine months in the desert. Riley Keo got hypothermia. George Miller says, there was a there's two oral history pieces I'd read about this movie. One came out in one came out earlier this year New York Times and I think Vanity Fair respectively. But in the New York Times one. Yeah, the actors, it is kind of interesting. I feel like you, I'm trying to think of other I mean, I guess that you could use a Titanic parable here too, because literally hypothermia, or I guess in Kate Win's was a case pneumonia. But you know, a movie that was extremely difficult to shoot, that sounds like it was absolute torture for the actors at different points that later on, because the movie was a huge success and was a classic, they're kind of like Yeah, that wasn't great, But I'm glad the movie was a hit, you know, like a little but but you know, it sounded like this was a um a shoot where everyone slowly lost their grip on reality, cast and crew. There were several cases of actors getting sick, Like I just said, Riley Ko got hypothermia because it was so cold shooting in the desert at night. The actors are shooting in the middle of the desert, and they're not because of their costumes. They're literally in gauze for a lot of it, and so there's not a lot of protection from the elements. A lot of stories like that. And then there was also some onset tension between Charlie's Thearren and Tom Hardy, which has expanded a little more in the Vanity Fair article. So I guess that Charlie Sarren had recently had a baby when she was shooting this movie, and so she's I get she has like a reputation for being very professional, shows up on time, expects to be released at the correct time, as is her right. That's union ship. Tom Hardy is known to be a method guy, known to never show up on time, known to be a little bit combative at times, and he and Charlie's well, they simply did not like each other. And there is a story in which Charlie's Thearren was there on time, sitting in the war Wig waiting for mad Jical Michael to show up. So he's not showing up. This was day five trillion of shooting in the war Wig. At this point, the women in Gauze had openly talked about Tom Hardy in front of him. Everyone was sick of him. Then he gets there late, Charlie's Thearren yells at him in front of everybody. She says, and I quote, find the fucking cunt a hundred thousand dollars for every minute he's held up this crew. How disrespectful you are. Love that for her, and then Tom Hardy physically charges at her, and uh, you know, says what did you do to me? And like lit like physically charges at her. She felt the need to request a producer for protection for the remainder of the shoot because things got so tense between the two of them. It sounds like they have since reconciled. But I guess make of that story what you will, But I don't think Tom Hardy comes off particularly well in It's certainly not and I take back what I said about him methin actors truly. I mean, I just I don't know my crush. Will Poulter said it best when he said something like, I don't like it. Yeah, what it was a good quote. We should look it up and let's find it. I'm because I love quoting, as you know, I'm always happy to google Will Poulter. It's easy for me to do. Oh he said, it's quote an excuse for inappropriate behavior unquote. So that's that. Um. Should we take a quick break and then come back and talk some more. Yeah, let's take a quick break and we're back. We are back. Where would you like to go from here at Caitlin, Oh, my goodness. I would like to talk about how the movie handles race, which is another thing that is not particularly good, y'all. This has been discussed before. We're not really pointing out anything new, but for the sake of a complete episode exactly. The movie largely centers white people, which has been pointed out as being especially strange in this context of like the world that this movie exists within. I want to pull a quote from and then also shout out a book which is a series of four different essays, all written by scholars I heard of them. The book is entitled Furious Feminisms Alternate Routes on mad Max Fury Road. There is a quote I will pull from the essay entitled just a Warrior at the End of the World by Barbaraker. This brighter put it better than I think I could. So quote Max's story, like so many in dystopian fiction, begs the question why do only white people survive the apocalypse? The absence of indigenous bodies, indeed of people of color generally throughout all four films, meaning all four of the Mad Max films reflect the white supremacists arc of settler colonialism in Australia. The presumed geography of the film and elsewhere and further is a narrative that seemingly relies on gender, but is always already raised as only certain bodies are visible, only certain bodies are active, only certain bodies are worthy of survival after the end of the world end quote. This is not to say that there are no people of color in the movie and in the main cast, because of course you have Zoey Kravitz. You also have the character of Cheetoh the Fragile who is played by Courtney Eaton, who is Maori and Cook Islander. Also shout out to the Ali Naughty Test because this character passes the Ali Naughty Test. This test examines representation of Indigenous women in media. In order to pass, a character must be an Indigenous or Aboriginal woman who is a main character. She must not fall in love with a white man. And she is not raped or murdered at any point in the story. And according to the actor Courtney Eaton, Cheeto is the only one of the wives who was not assaulted by Morton, Joe or anyone else. So, okay, that's good, that's good to know. We'll we'll get to this. I was very fascinated at how those actors got to develop their own character's history and story and that kind of collaborative process. But we'll get there. But but yes, I am I'm happy to here that that Cheeto passes the Ali Naty Test. I do wish that characters that passed the Alien Nati Test were more prominent in the story. She certainly has important moments in the story, but she's you know, I think kind of one of the less prominent of the of the women in Gauze and when you are just sort of like isolating screen time and just kind of like narrative significance, Definitely Max and Furiosa are the two most prominent characters. They share a dual protagonist situation. All this to say that the majority of the characters that we are rooting for are white characters. Yeah, I mean our to the two lead characters or I know that. God I've read so much of like actually Max is a deuteragamist and I'm just like, okay, with all due respect, shut the funk up, Um, I don't want to hear it. But yes, there are two are two leading characters who were supposed to I mean, the two people on the fucking poster are sis white movie stars. And thank you for thank you for sharing that quote. Because but now we've covered um several I think Australian movies where where this issue has been brought up? Um, what shall we address next? So I wanted to just this is another production note, but since it came up via learning a little bit about Courtney Eaton's Um character backstory, something I thought was quite interesting was and again just like an interesting showing of growth in a director over time. Is that George Miller brought in a consultant to help. It seems like primarily Charlie Scarron and the women in Gauze developed their characters. I don't know if the uh the VOLI I was gonna say, VOLVIONI So there you go, so like a damn Mario character. Okay, yeah, I I don't know about um the women in that area of the story. But George So, George Miller brought in Eve Ensler, who most famously wrote the Vagina Monologues, which is very dated in many ways. Uh, you know, we're not caping for the Vagina monologue, but she's she's been a feminist activist for a very long time, and he specifically requested that she be available to the actors who were playing um women who were being sex trafficked. And it experienced quite a bit of trauma because eve Ensler has a lot of experience working with survivors of sex trafficking. And I guess that that is like what she was doing when George Miller originally reached out. And so what they did in a way that I think it seems to have um Again, this is like we we cannot speak from personal experience here, but it seems to generally elevate those characters. And I feel like those characters are generally treated with respect. And you see, you know, even through the five women in gaul As, you see a bunch of different um reactions to like they're all distinct characters in a way that I think if the movie was made twenty years before probably wouldn't have been true. Um. Not only do they have different skills and strengths where and I'm not going to get the names right. So Zoe Kravitz, for example, can handle a gun like she knows her ship in that department, Riley Kio really strongly wants to go back for Rosie Huntington Whitely. They have different opinions on what they should do with knocks like there there's constantly disagreement, and even though many of them have experienced similar kinds of abuse, they are all interpreting it very very differently, which I thought was effective and um done kind of seamlessly with the story. But I wanted to share a quote from Eve and Sler in that New York Times Oral History just to give some insight into how they did it, so, she says, quote, it was really surprising for me. George would send me pieces of the script for feedback, and we began to get into a dialogue about the women who were going to play these sex slaves and how they would know what that lived experience was. Eventually he invited me to Namibia, which is where the movie was shot, to spend time with them in workshops, and my contribution was really to help those actresses become confident in that world. I think it was a really radical thing that he asked me to do that unquote. Um, I'm generally inclined to agree. And it seems like the actors got a lot out of it. Uh. They were asked to write their own backstories, essentially write letters in character to their abusers. I mean, it just seemed like a very immersive way of of building characters. And I do appreciate when a male OH tour such as George Miller knows when he's out of his depth and brings someone in who is not out of their depth. And I'm sure that those actors are more comfortable talking to Eve Ensler than they would be talking to George Miller about this topic. Um, So I just thought that was a good creative choice, whereas um, really Kio being left vulnerable enough to get hypothermia was perhaps not as good. Yeah, the shoot of this movie just sounded absolutely fucking wild, and you can tell by watching it because so many of the so many I mean, they're on location. It's practical effects in a desert in winter, sand blowing and everyone's faces and being exposed to the elements. And I mean, I don't even mean to be too hard on George Miller specifically with that. I mean the buckstocks with him because he's a director. But but like, nine months in the fucking desert with a gigantic crew and you're all doing practical effects of some of the wildest shit I've ever seen in my life. It's a miracle that everyone lived, um, which is also what one of the things that Steven Soderberg said. He's like, how did a hundred people not die? Right? So, so not to you know, getting hypothermia on at work is horrible, but given the scale of the movie, shocking that everyone survived. Yeah. I read that a stuntman suffered a broken leg on this movie. Hopefully he got workman's comp I know, I hope he got that workman's comp million. Baby. I hope he's I hope he's doing well. That is God, stunt work is so terrifying. Yes, okay, so I did. Yeah. I wanted to just kind of shout out the rare male filmmaker, knowing when he's out of his depth, it shouldn't be impressive, but it is. But it kind of is to the point where even even Sler was like, I was also shocked he wanted to do to do that, and I like, I think we talked about this in the Babe episode. Perhaps I don't remember, but a woman edited this movie. George Miller's partner, Margaret six Cell, edited this movie. I think we've brought up in the show a couple of different times that women editing a movie of this scale is again quite a big deal, and she wanted an oscar. I was gonna say, the editing is absolutely incredible. Yeah, it's absolutely it's I also didn't reading about the production of this movie was so like I didn't get really excited like into it because you're just like, holy shit, any epic You're just like this is how how where they like didn't have the budget to shoot the scenes at the Citadel, and so she edited most of the movie with nothing at the beginning or end like that sounds so awful, like for her, like, that's so stressful. Yeah, I think they had to go back and do reshoots, and yeah, the production went way over budget and you know all the things that you would expect when you watch the movie. The movie didn't technically make money after like all the stuff incurred. Yeah, okay, So when I had one last behind the scenes thing I wanted to draw to that, I think we'll hopefully transition into a bigger discussion question mark, let's see, and that is the costume design of this movie. Uh, it was You're headed by Jenny Beavan, who also spoke in this oral history, and it sounds like what I what I thought was really interesting about it is that it sounds as if the character designs and the costume designs since this movie went, you know, was first conceptualized in seven like before Zoe Kravitz existed on this physical plane, what Furious As character was going to look like it changed quite a bit and again was like collaborative with the actors. So Jenny Beavan says, quote, I am not into fashion wild thing for a costume designer to say I love it. I also had that thought as I wrote that quote. I am not into fashion and I don't particularly care what people look like. The clothes have to come out of the stories they tell, since she travels long distances, furious and needed very practical clothing. And when I met with Charlie's that was one of the things we talked about that and what on earth should she would she do with her hair? So, because it is Charlie's there own's idea to be the baldest woman in charge, which is the episode where we started talking about that, I believe it is true. Yeah, that's uh, one of the things we we did lose our I p by removing that episode from the feed is the origin of the baldest woman in Charge. But hey, we're bringing it back. We weren't completely you know, useless in we were just mostly useless. Um. But but yeah, I thought that the talking about the costume design is an interesting discussion because I feel like I'm interested in your opinion because I think, furiosa, that's a pretty straightforward discussion. Like she is, I think dressed pretty appropriately for the work that she's doing, and she's you know, she's protected. It seems like generally like that makes sense. And then with the with the women in gauze, they're definitely like their bodies are there's more attention drawn to their bodies and it so it was tricky because I remember the first time we had this discussion, I think that maybe we kind of oversimplified it where it was like, oh, these hot models and they're wearing hot outfits. Yes. However, me is more inclined to say, like, well, in story, that does technically make sense given who was dressing them and where they were coming from. Meaning like a Morton Joe would have selected like the most trophyist wives to be his trophy wives, and yes, would have put them in these outfits. And then we also see them in chastity belts that we see them the first thing they do when they get any amount of liberation is used bolt cutters to take them off, take off the chastity belts. Yeah, so I didn't really have And then when you meet the you say it again, the Volgolini, Volgali okay, Volvolini, Okay, I think I've got it now. They I think, for the most part, I mean they're basically a biker gang and they're like weather Gang and they're doing biker gang ship ganges, so that generally makes sense. I think the only character you see, the character who is known as the Valkyrie, she is nude when you first see her question mark or she's like mostly unclad and she put I don't know, it didn't particularly bother me. I don't know. The only thing that really bothers me about any of the costume design or like just kind of general character design is how do the women in Gauze never get dirtier than they are at the very beginning, considering they're like, you know, tumbling through sand and marsha is and yes, but they stay like perfectly quoft and without like smudges on their face, and that is Yeah, I think we talked about that in the first time, and yeah, I agree with you. You would think that it would I mean, continuity wise, that sounds like someone's worst nightmare. But I think in story that would have been more appropriate, which I guess kind of does bring me around too. There has been some criticism of this movie on gender essentialism. So we've discussed this on the show many many times, but it's it is a tricky discussion as it pertains to this movie because in a Morton Joe's hyper patriarchal capitalist society, the way he views women are as baby making machines when the reality is that not all women have uteruses, have wombs, can have babies. Like the definition of womanhood that Morton Joe's society cast them as is extremely it's just false. And we know that everything that Morton Joe does is deeply wrong. Where it gets confusing for me as I it's at times hard for me to understand what the movie believes, which I think is like evidenced in the fact that the again, like the characters who we are focusing on and who were rooting for and who are brought along for the journey are these Western beauty standard attractive people, and then everyone else is either a villain or just gets left out of the narrative and is only there as like world building, set dressing. But then, but then there's a lot of cool stuff that the movie is doing that subverts a lot of existing archetypes and tropes. So I've i've I've read arguments on both sides of this that. So i've i've I've read some stuff that argues that the script overly essentializes and defines, um, you know, is like baby making equals only way to be woman, which we know very well is false. But then I've also read counter arguments to that argument that are a little more recent. Interestingly, Uh, and this is yeah, I guess for our listeners, I'm like kind of synthesizing this in real time. But that argue that the movie actually does push against that essentialism in text through the women of the Volvolini. And I will say that Volvolini does not help that argument at all, especially because they're like other name is the many mothers, but also you don't see any of them as mothers, like there they don't or it's not clear. They're kind of like this utopian like it just seems like they just yeah, they they function as a family, but there doesn't. I don't know. But then the Keeper of the Seed that like it's I don't know where I land in this argument. However, Uh, the counter argument, just to present it is that the women of the Wolglini, many of whom I think most of whom are older, are not of childbearing age. If they ever were able to bear child we don't know right, who gives a ship U people alone? But but I think you know, because they are older in the eyes of Morton Joe, that makes them not useful productive members of his society. In the world of the movie. And to the women in Gauze, to mad Maximilian to fear Riosa, they are very valuable because they are valued for wisdom. They are just as capable, if not more capable warriors, and it is very clear in text that they are extremely important to the mission being a success. So it's it's certainly complicated. There are certainly ways to interpret what is presented to us differently. I see both sides, although I tend to be of the mind, not us being centrists. Um I And maybe it's just because I love this movie so much that I'm going to go to bat for it pretty hard. But sure do I love this movie so much because I think it's doing a lot of good things. That is part of it. So I want to just sort of talk about sort of just like generally speaking, here, this movie presents a world in which you know, this extremely toxic, tyrannical leader of a Morton Joe. He's obsessed with war, he's obsessed with controlling people. He owns all of the wealth. He is patriarchy, the guy, the man. He manipulates people. He sees women as property and you know, like you said, baby making machines, he sees his son. I mean, I think it's also interesting how he everyone is a means to an end. The gender nature of how he views women is pointed and particularly brutal. But I but I never, like, really, I don't know. I hadn't watched this movie with Bechtel Castle in like goggles on in a long time, but you see really early on that like you know, mad Max is a fucking bloodbag, like he's used for what Morton Joe thinks is valuable about District viewing him as an object as well. Right, yes, and all of these things are shown by the movie as being wrong and toxic and worth fighting against. And of course sometimes it gets a little on the nose. It's not very subtle, but you know, the intentions are clear what the film is trying to say and do. And just to have an action movie that is a critique of toxic masculinity and like hegemonic masculinity is pretty remarkable since most action movies celebrate toxic masculinity. Yeah, so that's kind of step one of what we're dealing with here, because I even though so many action movies celebrate toxic masculinity, I love the genre, but I especially love action movies with substance and interesting world building and that have something to say. So that's why I've really latched on to this one. Now, Furiosa, there are different interpretations of the kind of like Max and furious A dynamic. From a character function point of view, I consider them to be dual protagonists, and they share protagonists. Actually actually, um, I would actually call maximist, and in this essay I'll talk about why that's screwed up because it's his name in the movie. UM. Sorry, I continue, I I agree with you. So, just to come at this from a screenwriting point of view, um, not that I would ever, you know, mention a master's degree that I have in screenwriting from Boston University. Certainly not on your birthday, no less, certainly not on my birthday. But they share protagonist functions in the sense that Furiosa has the stronger motivation, the more distinct goal, which is the thing that dry it is the narrative, and the higher stakes whereas Max has the more significant character arc. You know, he goes from being this like borderline animal survival boy to someone with like human empathy. Both characters are equally active and the story is told from their point of view in pretty equal distribution. So that's why I contend that they are dual protagonists. Um, which means we have one of the protagonists in the movie being a woman, which is pretty rare for an action movie Furious especially of course, because she is one of two leading characters, is participating in the action and fighting. And again that makes sense because this is an action movie just as much as Max, more so even in the first act, because Max is restrained and chained to a car so he can't do anything for a while. There are moments where she gets to take the lead because she has more skills than him. There's that scene where she shoots the guys on the motorcycle that are coming after them because she has like better marksmanship, and also she's done this before and he hasn't. Like that's established really early on, where like she this is like not quite a day at the office for her, but like you know, I don't, she's more experienced and like he's like a cop, so he in theory has like experience shooting a gun. But like, oh no, I didn't mean like she, but I meant like in terms of knowing the war raging like that, Like she, yeah, like has more not like I feel like it's presented very early on that she has more relevant information and skills than he does for the situation they're in. But they're both very skilled, right right, right, okay, yes, yes, um right, and she just like has power over him in knowing the like code, the Da Vinci code, the unlocks, the killed switches or whatever. Do you remember that famous scene or furious Selene's over to Mad Max and she says apple, and then he goes, oh, my name's Max, so I have it in She's like he has to tell She's like, here's how to disable to kill switches. It's a p p L E. And then he goes, wow, I can't believe I read six hundre pages to get to this. So, uh yeah, And it's just I mean, just the fact that she is driving the war rig for a large chunk of the movie. I hate that that is such a big deal. But it's a big deal. That's a big deal. One of the best hand to hand combat fight scenes in an action movie that I've ever seen is that early one between Furios and Max. We have a man and a woman fighting, which, as we've discussed on the show, does not happen often. We've discussed how in a lot of action movies where like the rarer cases where a woman is allowed to participate in the action, she is often fighting other women. So to see this like very equally balanced fight between a man and a woman where they are both extremely capable, is again shouldn't be groundbreaking, but I'm like, oh my gosh, this is so cool to see. It's wild. And uh. Something else that I liked about this fight that felt a little unusual watching it this time around was I feel like you rarely see a male action protagonist fight because they're very obviously scared. Like Max is really scared in that scene, and like, I like, he's behaving brutally, but it's I I feel like, you know, a slight tip of that whatever to Tom Hardy, Like you can tell that it's like he's not doing the like hyper masculine action starting He's afraid and that is why he's fighting, And i'e like you don't. That's just not something you get from a male action hero very often. True. I'm about to go into a bunch of ways in which the female characters in this movie subvert a lot of action movie tropes. But there's a lot of stuff also that's subverted about Max's character. Like, I mean, he's, like what you said, he's got PTSD that really strongly affects him, And I mean, I guess that that's not unheard of in this genre, but to have it presented as something as scary and debilitating as it is to him, I feel like, is unusual. I think, I think so. I think also that again, him being kind of like incapacitated for the first act of the movie and not being allowed or able to participate in the fighting and action is a subversion. I think that his arc being that he learns empathy is a very interesting arc for a male action hero. I don't know, just like a lot of fascinating things to me, But not as interesting as furious a baby, not as interesting as Furiosa. So back to that hand to hand combat fight between Max and Furiosa. Also during that fight, the women in Gauze, though not trained warriors, at all, they are still participating in the action. For example, one of them tosses a weapon to Furiosa for her to use against Max. At different points they kind of rally together to either pull acts or nuts away from Furiosa. Um. There are other moments throughout the rest of the story where they the Kravitz does know how to shoot again. For yes, you know, like someone that she knows. Yeah, she knows how to like load reload a weapon. She knows how to Like she knows. And this doesn't like seem that impressive. But also like if someone's like, here's a pile of a bunch of different bullets, here's a pile of a bunch of different guns. Match the guns to the bullets. I can't. I wouldn't know where to begin. Yeah, no fucking clue there. It's it's like it's cool like there, and I forget how we view this. View this the first time around, but watching it back, you're like, oh, this is like having the women in Gauze. I feel like, in a less capable team's hands could either have gone super merry Sue or completely sidelined those characters in the action. But I feel like the action you get from them is significant. It's narratively impactful, and it's not like ridiculous, like they're a fucking swat team, because like that wouldn't make sense with their lived experience, right, it tracks with their background. They are able to do things like use bolt cutters, they create diversions to help them escape dangerous situations. You know, it's just like they are given opportunities to be able to do things that impact the story in ways that other action movies don't afford those opportunities to women usually. And then, like we've mentioned the team up with the Wovelini, the Many Mothers, and you know what it's reminding me of. It's reminding me of the VOLTUREI from fucking Twilight. Oh my gosh, the Italian vampire team. I was like, I was like, it sounds like Vagina pasta, but it also sounds like something else. It sounds like the Vulture led by I believed the code of Fanning. That sounds right, memory serves anyways, Sorry, that was that was bugging me. Now now I remember. I'm glad we I'm glad we worked through that. So they meet up with the Wovelini and like the number of female characters doubles or maybe even more than doubles, and then it's like they're all trained warriors in a way that makes total sense. Right, there's a lot of cool stuff happening there. And then more specifically, so I would recommend a video essay series from Innuendo Studios that was written and narrated by Ian Danskin, who is a cisman but he does make a lot of points that I agree with and and and brings a lot of insights. He does say due to ragamus quite though he does, and I will forgive him for that. Yeah, it's a good series. The videos series is called Bringing Back What's Stolen, Fury Road and the Avenging Feminine. So this video series has a lot of insight about how female characters in Fury Road compare to female characters in other action movies. Or he keeps calling them violent movies because he also introduces some examples from like horror slasher movies. UM, So if you're just kind of like using the umbrella of violent movies. Um, A lot of tropes and archetypes have emerged over the years that Fury Road tends to avoid. So I'll just kind of quickly go through this. I recommend watching the whole series, but it pointed out a lot of things that I wasn't really able to articulate very clearly. So yeah, it's very very streamlined. It's it's really good. So. One of the archetypes of female characters in action slash violent movies is the innocent um based sally when a woman is captured, damseled, brutalized to provide steaks for the male hero. We talk about this all the time. It often takes the form of a woman being captured and damseled and needing to be saved by a man. Obviously, Furiosa doesn't fall into this archetype, and neither do the wives because even though Furiosa is taking them away from a Morton Joe to safety, as we've discussed, they're not helpless. They are participating in the action. Yeah, and it was also like I thought it was a smart, subtle choice that it was their idea for it to happen in the first place, Like they weren't just like doi I want, Like they were highly motivated to get out of their situation, and they sought out someone who could help them, like huge, like literally graffiting on their walls the reasons saying like our babies will not be war lords. We are not things that whole I mean, And that's there's some I think that some of the issues we've discussed as it pertains to like gender, I feel like part of it is because there is that really strong like seizing the means of production energy to this movie, Like where for the majority of like the characters in this movie, the means of production is like reclaiming your own body, which is like you know, by liberating themselves from a morton Joe and refusing to have his children like that is their means of production. Same thing goes for like Max, Like the difference between Max being used as a blood bag for Nicholas Holt and Max giving his blood to Furious at the end is like he sees the means of his own production. It's the same thing, but the context is uh. Anyways, The next archetype that this video series identifies is they call it the Vasquez named after the character Vasquez in Aliens. Listened to that episode for our discussion on that character specifically. There's a lot going on, but it's the female action movie archetype where the woman is one of the guys and ends up embodying traits of toxic masculinity, which is again subverted in this movie because Fury Road explores a more nuanced and less binary spectrum of gender, of masculinity and femininity. That one, I mean, that was wild in that particular video section, with that super cut of all the different women protagonists that have said suck my dick. Different You're like, oh, yeah, I guess that that is a that is a thing that happens quite a bit, uh, in a certain era of but also like still kind of now anyway sometimes Yeah. One of these archetypes has been dubbed the dominatrix. Uh. This is the highly violent and also highly sexualized female character. She is often the villain or anti hero. Old school Catwoman's stuff exactly like leans into the hyper sexualization of women's bodies. I maintain that even though we see, especially the women in Gauze, they are arguably kind of scantily clad, they're not sexualized in an exploitative way. I would agree with that. You could you could make an argument against that, and I and I would listen and probably agree with some of it. But I think that there is an art. There's definitely an argument for it, but it just it's hard to describe. It doesn't feel like the movie is trying to titilate with shots of their body. I always think of the shot of like pregnant Rosie Huntington Whiteley and the Hose where you're like a still of that. I could see the argument, but presented in context, I didn't feel like it was supposed to be a titilating shot right right. The video essay points out that most other action movie directors would frame that scene in question, which is the one where Max comes upon the war rig for the first time when it's like cartoon wolf. And then it would because they're like posing each other down there, like cleaning off after this first big chase. They are drinking water, you know, all this stuff. That's when they say so fresh face. Throughout the movie, they occasionally rents off they're taking baths. That's true. Um. The video essay points out that like most other directors, and I'm especially thinking of like how Michael Bay would shoot this, but they would like shoot that scene like a wet T shirt contest. But this scene is mostly like the women at a far distance or like tight shots of their face in a way that we're not seeing like disembodied, you know, like breasts and asses and stuff like that. Yeah, so uh that's another subversion um. The next action movie archetype is the Mama Bear, which is typically a pretty feminine woman who will become violent in order to protect her children. Think like Ripley and Aliens. Thanks Gina Davis's character in The Long Kiss Goodnight, Um, I can't, I haven't seen it. Okay, then don't think about it. The video essay goes into detail about how Fury Road subverts this and that even though there is the idea of like motherhood presented in that, like the way, we're more rooted in our refusal to uh like right, yeah, it's it's it's more rooted in I mean and full disclosure, we are we're recording as in a big week for bodily autonomy talk. But it is like the most one of the most dystopian examples of trying to regain your bodily autonomy by refusing to have a child that you don't want that was a product of assault. Like period. Yeah, yes, bad week, bad week, that's a really bad week. The next archetype um being the final girl. This is already a familiar thing, most common in horror slash slasher movies. This video essay examines how kind of the idea of specialness and being quote not like the other girls is the thing that enables the final girl to survive, where in this movie, Fury Road subverts this by not presenting anyone as like more deserving or more special than anyone else. Although see my point again about the trophy wives being rescued but not the women who are being milked. Yeah, I don't think that that's universally true, but of the characters we know we are, that's generally true. And I also thought it was like, uh, just a choice that made sense in the genre. That I mean, none of the none of the we don't lose the women in gods, but there are a few of the vulture the vampires, yes, the Italian vampires that do die in in battle, and uh, and there's also plenty of war boys who die in battle. Certainly, I don't think that, I mean, we haven't really brought up nuts too much. There's not too much to talk about there. But I do think that it's interesting that he ties into this theme of redemption that the movie has that it would be it would have been very, very easy for them to just kill him, and they consider it, like the Furiosa has a knife to his throat at one point. Yeah, but but after the women in Gauze sort of talk it out a little bit and Furiosa weighs in that they I think it's Rosie Huntington Whitely who who ultimately says like, basically, this is a kid who's been indoctrinated into this fucking horrible place and sort of suggests that killing him is not the way to go, which ends up serving the story. And I like that this movie is, you know, there's like the whatever restorative justice is at play for a lot of it because even though Nuxt still dies, he like is redeemed by and and in a way that isn't like an annoying movie redemption. It's not like Adam Drivers Star Wars Redemption. You know, it's it's like it's efficient. You know that he has been indoctrinated. He makes an emotional connection with one of the women in Gas, the Riley Kio character, who I mean, it just sounds like he's basically shown mercy and like empathy as opposed to gas lighting and a fucking spray cand of the face for the first time in his life. You could argue that having only women display those qualities is pointed, but I thought it worked in the movie. But that's also an interesting arc for him to have to where like he starts out as being, you know, this product of his environment of being like extremely radicalized in this very toxic, warmongering way, and then as soon as one person shows him any amount of empathy and patience, riley Ko literally says like, oh that sucks, and he's like it blows his mind. He's like, wait, someone is it yelling at me and calling me mediocre? Don't call Nicholas whole mediocre, but yeah, Like his arc revolving around, similar to Max is like being responsive to empathy, yeah, or like having a healthier relationship with empathy. Is both of what the main male characters arcs revolve around, which is I think really interesting and cool. Um I agree. The final archetype, as discussed in this video essay, is the rape revenger, which again deals more commonly with like rape revenge horror movies, but based on the context of and like backstory of the women in Gauze it's applicable here where the general trope slash archetype presents women in a usually very exploitative way that kind of revels in the physical and or sexual violence that happens towards the women in these stories and revels in their suffering, whereas Fury Road opts not to show any of this exploitative violence and suffering. We understood that it has happened to them, but any of the violence toward women in the movie is just the women actively engaging in battle as warriors and not that kind of like exploitative violence towards women. And the video ends with a proposal of like a new and like a new future archetype that Furiosa falls into, which is called the avenging feminine, in which, uh, you know, a woman takes what is hers, she fights because it's her right to fight against men who tell her it's not her right, among other traits. Um I found the whole thing really insightful. I don't necessarily drive with every single moment, but um I found it generally it really cool. Yeah, we'll link it um if anyone wants to check it out. But it helped me because like it identified action movie tropes that are ascribed to female characters that I just like didn't have like the vocabulary for and stuff. So yeah, I just I found it really helpful, and I agree with most of the analysis of how Fury Road subverts those archetypes. So it's true. That's my little piece about that, and I think all of it is very cool and again largely why I love this movie so much. It's perfect. I'm I'm rictus erectus just here in it, uh, And that's my little contribution. Thank you. What a wonderful birthday gift the birthday. Yeah, I mean, Furious it is just like a fucking awesome character for for all the reasons you describe. And also I mean just a very I feel like it's fun to see a character of any gender kind of arrive fully formed, like when you meet Furious that she's highly motivated. She's one of the only characters that we meet who already has a vested interest in people who are not just herself. It's kind of her and the women and gods who care about each other. Um, and that that isn't because I feel like sometimes empathy and this isn't like the worst trope in the entire world. But it is a trope where empathy and emotional intelligence is more often attributed to women characters. It's not a trope that comes from nowhere, I would say, uh, but but it is a common trope, and I think sometimes in movies it's applied rather sloppily, where it's like women's intuition and ship like that. Sure, but with Furiosa, I mean, you get explicit context as to why she has a collective mindset and because that's how she was raised. She was raised in a feminist utopia that prioritized the collectives, so the fact that she retains those values as an adult makes total sense. But also there are moments where she does not display empathy, like the part where she's about to kill nuts. Uh. There's there's the part where she's like Rosie rolled off the war rig. We gotta keep going baby, we gotta keep going right, which is like, that's just pragmatic ship. Unfortunately for Rosie. Glad she made it exactly. But it's something so I've talked about this on the show before, but something that drives me absolutely wild about horror movies especially, and it's usually like the Final Girl, but you see this in some action movies too, and other genres. But like whoever, the most important female character of the movie is she has so much empathy that she has put in a position where she has the opportunity to badly maim and or kill the person who is trying to kill her. But because she has so much empathy, she's like, I can't do it. I can't. I mean, which, which I think in certain you know that I feel like that's super case to case, but can be super sloppy and trophy if it just seems like it's because it's because girl, girl is nice, girl has feeling right and that and that's some women are fucking heartless and you should remember that. But um, often when I see it, it's it's very infuriating in Furious curiousting because of the way it's presented. Um And in this case, we see Furiosa killing people all the time because they are actively trying to kill her. So but she kind of but but I also appreciate that she doesn't. I don't know, no, when I guess this is like part of why they're the hear like, no one is killing for fun, they're killing for survival. Um, where like I mortem Joe is killing for say his name again, Jamie Morton, bro Elan mc volvolorins, I just passed out. I just got a nose leed on the zoom call. I think you're called Knucks Knocks at one point as well Knocks l a the place I write for. Um. Look, look, they're difficult names. There's too many characters. There are a lot of characters, and they all have pretty unfamiliar names. They have very name. Okay, I've called that was on your birthday. Can't believe it. Um, I truly forget what I was talking about, but I'm sure I was in the middle of I'm sure. I mean, good job, Jamie, He's made a good point. Oh something you wanted to bring up really quick? I mean, I guess it's just like Hits Home again. It's just a scene that I had forgotten about. I hadn't seen this movie and maybe two years, and I was like, oh boy, uh when the dead baby the dead baby, there is a dead I don't really I don't have a bettel Cast Galaxy brain point to make about it, but I do. I mean, I guess that that just that like Hits Home super hard, not subtly at all. How little life is valued when it doesn't have when it doesn't specifically benefit the upper class, because no one gives a ship. If Rosie Huntington Whiteley is okay, it's like is the rawduct because they view children as products and a future war boy, you know. And so I just forgot about that scene and I find it disturbing every single time. Again another reminder of what is happening in this country right now. Yeah, there's a lot about this movie that the more time that passes, you're just like, whoa with? I mean even just like, yeah, a radicalized force of young men. You're like, I know, yeah, uh, anyways away, you know it's it's it's still fiction for now. So that's good. Yeah, did you have anything else you wanted to talk about? Not really. I just want to give a shout out to miss Giddy. I wish we just knew more about her character. Amazing line reads great. I love her tattoos. There was a scene that was shot but deleted from the movie in which Angherd's body and Miss Giddy were left to die and be eaten by crows, which I think would have been just like a very unnecessarily violent scene towards Miss Gutty specifically, that was removed. Honestly weird that it was even considered to be included in the movie. But I did not know that. That's very Yes, um so that was no good. But uh, Miss Gitty is just seems like a prime candidate for a limited series. That's a character. I would watch a whole series about the marvelous Miss Kitty. I like that. That's where you took it here, like as she does do stand out. She's a stand up comic at the Citadel, she did the Comedy Citadel. She headlines the Comedy Citadel, and I'm running my Type five at the Citadel tonight. I want to come, um just like a goofy, Like it's real hard bringing a woman in comedy, right, And she just said the fucking Citadel. Uh God, Anyway, wish I knew more about wish we knew more about her character. I think we just built out some pretty let's let's uh, let's run that past Eve Ensler. But I think that she's gonna love it. I agree, Yeah, I think that is all I had. Did you have anything else? No, that's that's that's about all I had as well. Um, I really enjoyed this movie, and I really enjoyed talking about it. I'm so glad to hear that. But here's my question, Caitlin. Does it pass a back? It does a lot. Furiously talks to the various women in Gauze. They talked to each other. They all talked to different members talked to each other. Yes, Um, I don't have a handle on what most of their names are, but I think they are given names like in the script and in the credits. They're all and stuff pretty like. I mean, I would say that they count his names because male character eors are also given like weird titles as names, like the Bullet Farmer. I would consider it to be a character's name. Sure, yeah, in the same way that yeah, the people Eater the Duf Warrior, which you gotta love the Duf Warrior. Um. I didn't love the Duf Warrior the first time around, but this time I loved the Dufei. The dufe is cool. Speaking of media tests, I wanted to call attention really quick to the furiosa test. Oh yeah, I forgot about this. This is a funny one, so obviously, so this movie provides the origin for this test. The test was proposed by Twitter user Sean M. Puckett in June a sentence who said proposed the furious a test your movie, slash game, slash book, slash play passes if it incites men's rights dipshits to boycott because what happened when this movie was released, A bunch of m r a s were like, what what is this? What's that? Well that then Alfred Bilina, who famously denounces men's rights activism, king King of the World, and you heard it here first on our show. People don't talk about that enough. I think they don't talk about it nearly enough. They don't really talk about it maybe at all. It doesn't really come up. It's sort of only just us who brings it up. But the m r a s they just threw a little fit, as they often do, when they realized what this movie was about. They deemed it feminist propaganda. They you know, demanded people boycott the movie. They still do this, But I feel like the mis was when this like this particular brand of like like masculine anchor was like they were really in their bag because like Ghostbusters came out, this came out like you're just like, oh my God. I feel like everyone had like one man in their life that was like, Oh, I didn't realize that you're the pettiest kind of person that exists. Uh yes, fascinating Anyways, what about our nipple scale though, you're the five nipples? Based on how the movie fares when examining it through an intersectional feminist lens, oh me, oh my, um okay, I think I've got I've got a number in mine, go go go off, Birthday, thank you, birthday, birthdays, first birthday, first always. I am leaning somewhere between a three and a half and a four. I might split the diff and go three point seven five. I think the way the movie treats disability and atypical bodies is unforgivable. I think that the way the movie centers whiteness and centers people who adhere to western beauty standards as being those most worthy of being rescued and escaping to safety and survival is dated and unfortunate, and there was so much more room for more meaningful inclusion. Things like that, which we've discussed that bring the rating down. But there is also so much that the movie subverts, tropes that avoids and things that it actually does actively do to push the needle forward in terms of how women especially are treated and the role that they play in an action movie. Because of that, I'm going to go with the I think at three point seven five. I'll give one to furious A, one two the women who are left behind, one to the women in Gauze, and I'll give my three quarters nipple to the voltry Ak, the Wolvelini, okay, the Ravioli. You know, we could keep going, we could keep going. Oh my god. My favorite moment in all of um history as do you ever? No, I guess no. Every time you didn't watch SpongeBob. There's a great moment where I forget what the context of it is, but someone spells Chris Squidward's name wrong and he goes squid word totally me and it's so funny because his name Squidward Tentacles, sort of like the character Tentacles in the Legend of Titanic. My favorite animated film of all time, The Blueprint. Yeah good, oh god, I love squid word. Okay, um, I'm going to give the movie. I'm gonna I'll be generous because I feel residual guilt for how irrationally hard. I was on this movie the in our first run at this episode six years ago. We're all works in progress six years ago. To be fair, Yes I was. I was twelve years old. I'm eighteen now, so I think I know a thing or two. Okay, good, I am, I'm gen Z. What can I say? Um? Well, since it's my birthday today, so I have actually aged into being a boomer. Wow, that's how that works. There there comes a day where we all become boomers selfordunately. I'm Benjamin Botton ng I'm gen Z. Uh Um, but I'll go for I totally agree with the way that this movie treats disabled bodies and atypical bodies in general. This movie's views on fatness in particular are um all extremely dated for a movie that came out less than ten years ago, which speaks to how underdeveloped those discussions are. And and also, um, you know a positive spin, how far conversations around that have come. And I would be interested because there is supposed to be a prequel with Anna Taylor Joy as young Furiosa coming out in I would be curious because George Mill has a somewhat good record on course correcting past mistakes. I wonder if that will be something that is course corrected in another installment of this franchise. We will see it curious to see um, curiosa, curiosa, honey. Uh. But yes, the the treatment of disability and race in particular are we're not good at the time and did not age well um and should always be criticized. And to this movie's credit, I do think that this movie's good reception, this movie being embraced by action fans is like a huge I would imagine. I mean, it's still kind of early to tell. Obviously, the movie came out seven years ago, but even in that time, I feel like you can trace that it's made a difference in the genre, and it's made a friends to fans of action movies of like what an action hero looks and behaves and like what they're capable of. I feel like Furiosa is like a huge kind of game changer for this genre, and it is a difficult genre to game change because of all the loaded masculinity that it's known for. There's a lot of baggage. Yeah, So for its fault of which there are many, and we've discussed them, I do think that it was a huge step forward for the genre in many ways. UM. I generally like how the women in the movie who we get to know? Um, which is the women we get to know versus a woman we don't, as we discussed, is very intentional and pointed the when we do get to know, I feel like are all given effective story arcs. I thought it was really cool that George Miller empowered his actors to develop their own characters, was open to feedback, brought in a consultant like ship. You just don't hear about male unters of this kind of magnitude doing, not giving him a fucking crown or anything. But I think it's just just another good example setting thing to have done. I think this movie is awesome. I really enjoy watching it, and UM, thank you Caitlin for first of all choosing it for your birthday episode and for bearing with me as I grew as a person and grew to appreciate it. So look more, nippies. I knew it would happen. I knew that you would undergo a significant character arc much like Max does. So not Max. I don't like Max. Um, he's my least favorite character, and you know, that there's a lot of worse characters. But anyways, I'm going to give my nepples, I mean, one to Curious, I'm gonna give one does Zoe Kravitz in the bullet Bag, I'm gonna give one to the Keeper of the Sea Needs, And I'm gonna give one to Mrs. Oh what's their name? Mrs Miss Giddy, Miss Gid Love it And that's the episode, folks. It certainly is uh you can you know, do all the stuff? Hey, you know what, since it's my birthday. Yeah, I'm gonna not only suggest, but maybe even demand that you oh ship this is this is me being absolutely funked up as promised. I'm so scared right now. Would you give me a little follow on Twitter and Instagram at Caitlin Durante Because the more followers I have on social media platforms, the more validated I feel as a human being. And that is the sad state of the world. I think that that's super healthy and I feel the same way. Um, everyone follow Caitlin on every platform available. You have TikTok to, I do have TikTok and I um I have not really posted much except for a couple of Titanic related TikTok's. Although I started doing this new thing on my Instagram stories in which I recap a movie speaking as quickly as I can and including as much detail as I can in fifteen seconds or less. So I might add those to my TikTok to really, you know, because it's all about generating new content, you know. Um. She says she's a boomer, but she's sounding like a danger what M so definitely, you know whatever. I don't care about TikTok right now, but I mean ask me again in a year and I'll be like, follow me on trink talk, um, but certainly follow me on Instagram and Twitter. Also followed Jamie on those on those platforms, Hey, why don't you do that for once in your life? Um? Yeah? And then also listen to Ghost Church. That's my new show that's coming out right now. It's about it's about my my week in Cassadega, Florida and the history of American spiritualism a k. Ghost Church, as I like to call it. I'm having a lot of fun making it. It's also produced by producer at the Bendel Cast. So if you Lichterrman and why don't you, why don't you head on over and give that a lesson. We just love creating content so much, which says Instagram and Twitter elon Musk's Twitter as I like to call it now, Jamie Loftus help on Twitter, Jay christ Superstar on Instagram, and then follow the Bechtel Cast while you're on those two cursed websites. Okay, yeah, at Bechtel Cast and uh. A nice little birthday gift for me would be if you give the podcast a little rate and review, preferably a favorable one, like a you know, five nipple if you dare, if you if you hated this episode, actually please thank I'm still I'm still traumatized from the Zootopia blowback of Oh my god. They're like, oh, it's just, oh well, rabbits can't even be cops anymore, according to these broads. I'm like, oh my goodness, gracious, take a c folks. No one's listening to the episode at this point. They're like, the episode ended ten minutes ago, it's been over two hours, and we simply can't stop talking. Typical women, right, always blabbing, blabbing, blabbing. Pe pe poo pooh. Two things women love did you, and then follow our patreonic Adrian. If you want more of that hilarious star banter, that's patreon dot com, slash becktel cast. You want an episode on Babe truly, that's where you'll find it. That's where you're gonna fucking find it. Um, and we are we're doing some of Caitlin's picks on the matre and this months we're doing face slash Off and we are doing it. What's the other one? Or doing Top Gun? Not because I vouch for the movie for either of these movies. It was honestly just like, Okay, the new Top Gun movies coming out, what better time, I guess than to cover the original Top Gun. And then also I was like, what's another like big loud action, goofy action movie that we can fold into the mix? And I was like, Face Off. I think would be a lot of fun for us to be like, what the funk is this movie? Love it? So that's the plan, folks, And that's the plan. And if you don't like it, go to hell to quote um. Okay, one's let in Titanic, Well, let's get out horror or follow me internal on the highways of the see you in Valhalla everyone and go to Valhalla. Deal with Valhallaco saw the Northman. I've had enough of Valhalla. Goodbye Episode I