Never I got another one? Who bag? Get my legacy? Yo? Yo? What's up? Everybody's Rashot Jen's here, co host of The Bag, brought to you by her Radio and Sports Illustrated. I'm here defended by myself today because my amazing co host, Lendia McCormick is frolicking Paris on her honeymoon. But needless to say, we will deliver you a great episode as I had an opportunity to sit down with my good friend A bar be a Jamilla. We got a chance to tap into cancer culture, the Washington Commander's issue with Dan Snyder, and also what it takes to be successful outside of football post career. You're not gonna want to miss this. I appreciate you far coming through. Ma. Now I want to I want to take a stab at this before we even get started. I want to try to pronounce your name. I didn't ask you how to say it yet, let's you know what I mean. So I want to give it, give it a shot. I bar Miller bo bo, that's it, just like, yeah, that's it, that was it? Yeah? If you yeah yeah, if you look at it, it'll mess you up. If you just committed to memory it's easy. But looking at it is there's a lot of letters that shouldn't be next to each other. But it's just it's yodoba. So that's that's the way it is. That's cool. Man. Well, I appreciate you coming on. Hold on, hold on, man, take a shot at the whole name though. You gotta there's there's there's a whole lot to you gotta. I think you can, uh, I think you can google it or wi you Yeah, let me see. Yeah, let's see. I want to see. I mean, you got lucky on the last name, but let's see if you can get the whole thing. I'm I know, I'm a butcher or something. Let's see. You might not you might actually be Nigeria. You gotta check your twenty three and me. You know what I did. I did the twenty three and me and I found out um irish and uh fifty, I think it was Nigeria. Oh yes, yeah, that's why I came out so easy. Yeah. But uh oh no, no, no, I have no shot like the moment. This is an essay. How do you say it? You know, go ahead, you got a bar and okay, I would say, oh oh awakema I don't even know how to say that. One man, I'll awakem up I do I used your middle name? There? Actually is it is that considered middle name? Explained? Explain the ethnicity and origin of the name. Yeah, so it's uh, it's Nigeria. I actually should get my phone out right now to record this. Yeah, you know what it is. I actually have I have fun with it because I don't take it personally, you know what I mean, Like this to me is just all good and all good fun. Um So No, it's Akbar Olowa kemmy it um and so in the Nigerian culture, you're named according to how you're born. And so my grandmother gave me or my grandfather gave me my name. It's like when my when I had my kids, my father would name my kids. So that's kind of the honor that you give your your parents, is being able to name your kids. So um So Akbar means great. It's Arabic for great oldwa. Kemmy is like the Lord pampers me, the Lord takes care of me Edo who is born after twins and then Baja bia Milla's big man come save me um. And so my great great grandfather was like a seven footer in in our area, in our town, UM in Nigeria, UM in the village, and whenever people would have issues, they would ask him to come mediate. So our last name, uh actually is a nickname. So big Man comes, saved me, come help us out. That's how we got the last name. Wow, that's crazy. Yeah, that's that's an honor though. Uh So when you tell your name, people know, they know you. They go, oh, you have twins before you. So my brother could be or my sister cabrat they are twins. So it just automatically tells your story. They know it immediately. That's awesome, man, that's awesome. So and you were born and raising Crinshaw h right and major path, major way, major journey. Take us through that journey. I know you was undrafted and I think it was two thousand and three to the Raiders. How do you find as a journeyman? Walk us on that path? How you got from point A to point B? Well, you know, it's crazy. This journey for football for me really started back when I was shy, I believe it or not. I was a twelfth grader UM and my brother who played in the NFL prior to me. Uh, he got he was the part of the two thousand draft and he was always a stud from Pop Warner to high school to college and in the league and um, people thought I should play football, like im no, I'm a hooper man, like that's that's my thing, that's my swag. I'm a hooper And anyways, they kept pressuring me to play. I finally said I would. I cried my very first day of practice because it was just brutal. I was like, this is Barbara. I quit. I ain't doing this, man, I'm going to the NBA. I don't need to subject myself to this. And I quit. And I went home and my father was like, you did want you quit? You started to finish it and I was like, oh no, And I tried to come up with all these excuses. He's like, all right, well if you quit, uh, and it's very thick Nigerian accent, then you you have to quit basketball too. And I was like, oh, that was not negotiable. So I end up playing. But it was a blessing in disguise because I end up being way better football than I was in basketball. Um. And then so I was a late starter in football, made it to college, got a scholarship to San Diego State. From San Diego State, you know, still in that growing process, was undrafted to to the to the Oakland Raiders, and that part was you know, you know, as you can imagine, starting late, you have a a chippling and shoulder and probably a lot of insecurity because there's a lot of guys who have been playing the game longer. But you try to manage all of that and and just kind of fast forward and through my career, you know, I went from d n to outside linebacker, and I got exposed in the league because I think, you know this shot like the defensive lineman's always they're not always the smartest bunch when it comes to football, not outside of football, but in football, because you know, we've gotta stop the run gets past, you know that kind of thing. Uh. And so once I got into the three four defense, I realized, Man, there's a lot of football I didn't know. So then that started to I felt cut my career very short because then I went from one three four defense to the Chargers, from the Chargers to the Dolphin and then back to the Raiders, and now was out of the league. And then I needed to go back and figure out what I was gonna do. And that's how I got into uh, into show biz, into media. I wanted to do broadcasting. I got my degree at San Diego Stadium that and then I just kind of went and took this unconventional path. And I think you would know this as well, and that when you leave the league, people forget quickly. Man. You lose that platform, the the ability to be able to get into doors. They they shut very quickly. And so I had to come up with an unconventional way, which was working for free. I my very first gig. I walked up to a h NBC in San Diego and said, Hey, I do the post game show for you for free. And they looked at me and was like wait what I say, Yeah, I'll do the charges and sex game post game for free. Boom right there, And that was the start of mind. That was the start of my career. Wow. So so I want to kind of tap into that a little bit, um, you know, especially post career and saying that you was working for free and this is that's a concept that I've tried to um instill in my nephews a lot and understand and and a lot a lot of kids too that I talked to about working for free. Um, you know, everybody wants to get they want to get paid compensated for their work and their efforts. But tell tell me about the investment that comes along with working for free and what you did you walked in where that came about, because you know part of the bag, right, we talked about sports and business, and the bag has a double meaning, you know, getting to the bag, the money, but also when somebody's in their bag, there in the element, there in their zone and their creativity. So I kind of want to allow you to explain where your bag was at that time. Well, first off, I think I didn't know it at the time, but you know I was going through this, uh like many depression, you know, I was just you know our call it like a seasonal depression because my career was over, um six six to everywhere I go, people are asking me how come I'm not playing? You play in the league, And it was very humbling, like, no, I don't play anymore. I might have a chance. Your brain is still going back, like I feel like I can still do it, and you don't know how to identify yourself. So you go, it's an identity crisis. You're trying to figure out what and who you are. And I just remember staying in my condo in San Diego and I was like, this is enough. I can't do I can't do this anymore. So I had to make a hard pivot. But then I realized I didn't have any other experience outside of sports. I didn't. I mean, I played sports since I was a kid. Like, that's the thing that I invested the most amount of time. And so I said, that's equity. What do you do with that equity? If you have equity in your home and you're ready to cash out, right, you sell the home and you take that money and you put it into something else, another home, by a bigger home maybe, or or maybe pay for whatever. So I had all this sports knowledge and experience and I go and I had a college degree in in new media studies and communication, and so I said, you know what, I know there's gonna be a lot of guys because we have egos when we come out the league and you go, I want to be paid. Well, I always say I had worked for free, because I did. I didn't get compensated, but I was also gaining something. I was gaining a lot of experience. So where as I wasn't gaining a lot of money in that situation, I was gaining experience that no one else was going to give me. Like, let's be true, Like I want to go for a meeting to meet with Fred Brown at Al Jaffe at ESPN. And this is right after I got cut, and I thought, you know, I played the league, you know what I mean. But you know, again, I wasn't a big deal. And they were kind to take the meeting, but they said, akbar, let's keep it real. What are your credentials? What have you done in the league? Why is anybody gonna listen? And I'm going, oh my gosh. They were nice. They didn't they didn't say it in an assaulty way. They were every very you know, like up front and like it was like awkward. There's so many other guys like you. They have better resumes and I'm like, oh shoot, And I thought, okay, I'm gonna kill him with time talent. And so that's when I devised the plan that I was gonna go to the San Diego I was gonna broke I woke up that morning and I said, this is when I brushed my teel. I went through the whole process. That's how I'm gonna get there before everybody gets started up in their day. And that's what I did. Boom knocked on the door, walked in and say, hey guys, my name is Oh, we know who you are, so yeah, I'd love for work for you guys for free. And then that's how that journey started in from there. Two years. UM, I sucked my first year and I only know that because it show business. They don't tell you stuff. But the next year they go, wow, you're so much better than you were your first year. How come you didn't tell me that my first year? After every show was great show, great show, great show. Um. And then I took that and went into sports calling, um, color commentating for CBS College Sports and then NBC Sports, and then I started to grow that muscle. But then I realized how much time you know calling look and shout out to Tony Romo and all the great ones who've ever gone out there, and as a color commentary, it takes so much of your time to prep for all the different scenarios and the different rosters, especially in college football. Um, and I was just like, this isn't for me. I want to go in the studio. And so I slowly started to make that transition, got my first audition brow at the NFL Network. That's how, that's how, actually you and I became buddies. Is my my my job at the NFL Network doing fantasy football. And here was the thing. No one wanted to do fantasy football, especially as a former athlete, because it was kind of like that's not real, and so people kind of frown on it, like they wanted to be on Total Access or they want to be on Sports Center. And I saw the long play, I go, I don't have to have any ego in this. I just want to get the reps. So I was like, yeah, I'll go audition for And there are a bunch of guys named guys who auditioning in front of me, and I think a lot of them felt like they were bigger than fantasy feel like I'm bigger than fantasy football, whereas I I just went in and played in that space. And playing in that space allowed me to stay there for eight years and grow my skills. But by my second year, I got in the opportunity to audition for American Injin Warrior. I hit that. I've been doing that for ten years and the rest is history. And now you know, doing talk show Now, I'm in the talk show space, uh, every day, um with And this was a lifelong dream to you know, growing up watching Oprah Winfrey. But to now be a host on the Talk with Cheryl Cheryl Underwood with Jerry O'Connor, Natalie Morales and Amanda Cludes, It's it's been a dream and it's been a dream come true. That's awesome, man. And you're talking about a transition and the pivot and from from football. Um, and it sounds like you've always been that underdog everywhere. Uh, you know, even even starting the starting your football career. You started off late. Um, I don't know that you was better at football than basketball, which which every bad every football player I think they can play basketball. I've noticed that. Yeah, I know. And you know what, it's always so fun. I was just talking to Tarrell Owens a couple of days ago that we were just jabbing at each other and he's like, I can play basketball, but like they're football players that that can play because they started off in basketball. But then they're football players who are just athletes and think they can play and they droople hard like this, and they like muscle. You just you don't even look fluid. Actually looking athletic looks bad. I always get a crack out of like football players who think they can play basketball because they're athletic, and it just doesn't translate. It looks hilarious to me. It definitely doesn't translate all the time. Man. That the same thing to the golf course. I'm one that it doesn't translate to the golf course. I look, I look like an athlete playing basketball, action a whole bunch of stuff. But boy, you put me on that green playing the NFL. Yeah, it doesn't look right. I can ride a gold card though, look good at doing that. You and I got to hook up with Bryce Butler. Man, Bryce Butler is doing his uh he's doing his golf thing. Man, he looks so clean, so smooth. Like. Now, I gotta give me some of that Bryce Butler transition from football and the golf. Man, I gotta because I look I look horrible too. We could do that. That's that's that's my young guy. Yeah, yeah, man, he was one of the under studies there. Uh, formulator too, you know what what you to kind of like your your flow though your flow of we're we're from point at the point be here. UM is unique is under the radar. It's hard work. UM. It's paying attention to the details, maximizing opportunities. UM. You know, and a lot of humility comes along with that. And I feel like I can um for me, relate to you in some ways and share perform from you know. Part of that grind comes from the attitude of nobody owes me anything. You know, if you really look at the essence of I look at my path, I look at your path. You know, I'm close to being undrafted seventh round, two D and fifty pick out of two fifty six. Um, you know, not not a not a first not a first rounder, not a red carpet guy. Just a grinder, That's all I know. And I had the attitude the whole entire time when I played in the NFL, and even my entrepreneurship. Nobody owes me anything. It's the attitude that comes from and it comes from my family and where I'm raised how you know, raised in Virginia, and you know, UM, I wanted to know how much of an attitude, you know, what kind of attitude you march with in order to make you successful in in sports and business. Wow, that's a that's a really good question. That's a really deep question. You know. One thing that was profound that stood out to me, um, because there's I think there's this thing that happens right where all of us are like we all want to matter to someone Like that's that's the makeup of most human beings, if not all, We all want to matter. And when you get into a position, and especially an elite position, like there's no other lead past the NFL, right, Like that's the top, right, and I think so many people miss that, like that's it, Like there's no other level beyond that. And so when you are able to make it too that there's a lot of this need, this uh, this insatiable need to be to feel wanted and needed and celebrated. And so you have that, right you have you get this thing where people are celebrating you, and it can go to your head. It can you start feeling yourself right, Um, you think you're better than um. One of my teammates, justin Fargus, my boy man Love. His kid went to USC drafted at in the second round to the Raiders. We came in rookie cause and he says something to me his and I think because he had been around it for a long time. His dad is Huggy Bear, act, famous actor, and so he's kind of seen all of this. He says, You're not that big of a deal and you're gonna die. I'm like, Jay Man, why do you say that? Like so yeah, and I'll never forget. We were on our first flight going to our first game, and I'm like, that came out of nowhere. But what he was saying to me when he broke it down was so many of us live our lives like, you know, especially if you're in the spotlight, like I'm a big deal and everybody should be paying attended and everybody should cater to me. I think athletes and celebrities have to send on a lot. And when he said that, it just made me feel like I was closer to everyone else, you know what I mean, Like I didn't. I needed to get rid of that whatever that was as you're marching away, because you know, you have people my coach us to say, don't read your ink, because when you read your ink, man, it just it builds the finger. And so I think what's motivated me is that I was just gonna outwork everybody. I was going to If I wasn't the most talented, I was gonna outwork it. I tried to tell that to my kids. My parents taught me that my father came to this country in nineteen seventy four, my mom came to this country in nineteen sixty nine. Um, they were both entrepreneurs and all they knew they didn't speak the English, wasn't the best. Um, they came into this foreign land and made away setting kids and you know, and just literally never made excuses my my parents technically qualified for uh welfare. I wasn't gonna take it, you know what I mean. Like I remember my dad said, I will never take it. Like it was like, what is this, Well, I don't need the government's help? Well, what I ask the government for help? It was just like my dad, you take this personally, but I'll never forget that. And so it's that mentality that I was that he was always going to bet on himself the fact that my dad didn't want, you know, any government assistant that he is gonna bet on himself, and he did well. He did want to be able to take care of us. You know, some people might look at our condition differently. I look at my condition now growing up and saying, hey, my dad worked his butt off and I've carried that same thing. So yes, I didn't have a big name in football. So what that that That wasn't my existence. That's what I did, That's not who I was. So um yea, I said, hopefully I answered the question. Oh yeah, absolutely, man, it's a big thing. I And whenever I get a chance to, you know, talk to successful uh men and women on the show, I always try to ask one or two questions around and around, like the attitude, the essence of like the muse of life right, And because a lot of a lot of a lot of life tries to put the A in there, which A in front the word stands without to be amused, it's without thought, right, And so I want to make sure there is some type of music on the show. You know, there's some there's something. There's something else too that drives me, if you know, in being honest, I don't know what this is. Um, maybe you have it too. Maybe a lot of people have it. I don't know, but sometimes you when you have something in your head, you feel like it's just unique to you. But I've always been in love with greatness. I've always chased that my whole life. My whole life, I've always chased it. As a kid, I remember watching Magic Johnson and Mohammad Ali these are the people. Was fixated on it, Michael Jordan's and Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Michael Jackson. And as I got a little older, there was Oprah Winfrey that I mean, I grew up. What I mean, I've probably one of the only dudes you know that's probably watched every episode of the Oprah Winfrey Show, like I tasted it. I don't know if you remember, but that was that was something that I've always been attracted to. I've always been attracted to greatness and and just knowing like gosh, like how do you become the greatest? Right? Like, That's something that I've always um, I've always been attracted to, and I've always worked towards. But the craziness is is that I've never seen that in myself. So it's what keeps me, It's what keeps me going. I don't know that even if I it did become the greatest and something, um, if I wouldn't even know. Yeah, I don't even know it. Yeah right, because it's still because the chase is what's more intriguing than the accomplishment in that regard, right in your accomplishments or just checkpoints to let you know your head and in the right direction, but you will never seemed to succeed your goal because it is just chasing, and it's chasing. That was that was a dime right there. You just dropped a checkpoint letting you know you're going in the right direction. I like that. Yeah, man, that's all it is. So I wanted to transition a little bit um into some some of your thoughts on business. We see that Dan Snyder is it seems like he's being forced to sell his NFL team to Washington Commanders in d C. And every year there's always big story, headline box office type of you know, headline stories of what's going on in the NFL. We understand how much football sports influence um culture. So I wanted to get some of your thoughts from being in the NFL and now an entrepreneur yourself. UM, what are your what are some of your general thoughts on all the business accusations that are going on, uh and how things are moving right now in the NFL, specifically with and Washington Commanders. You know, I have to I have to be honest. I don't know all of the details when it comes to m Dan Snyder. I just know that there's been like a hostile work environment for a lot of the people. UM. I haven't been able to do my due diligence and go in and seeing why he's actually, UM, someone I know for a long time, he's been kind of one of these you know, owners or figureheads that people have always had a problem with, whether it was being able to change the name for the you know, from the Redskins to the Commanders. I mean, I remember there was a time where he says I would never, you know, UM change the name, and especially when there was a lot of information out there talking about how insensitive the name was. And just think about how long it took for the name to change. UM. I don't know if that's indicative of the work environment that went on behind closed door. I know there's a bunch of documents and um, that they were able to find emails and so on and so forth, going back and forth, that they were able to find and invest it. But we haven't seen the findings of those things. And it's actually I'm actually would be I'd be interested in knowing what the findings were in those so people kind of get an understanding, um, exactly who had ownership of uh, the Washington Commanders. So I don't I don't have an opinion yet. I mean, I'm just believing that if all the other own are in agreeants that he should be out, then there's there's something there and I wonder if it's being protected, but it should be it should be put out there. I think it should be public. Yeah, absolutely, man, I totally agree. And that also highlights to the other side of the coin, right, the disciplinary actions that come along with it. And I kind of want to get your thoughts onness. So, uh, we see in the NFL a lot of times public opinion will skew the disciplinary action. UM, I'm wondering, do do we see some of that in other sports? And do we see that in corporate America? Right? So, like I take example, Draymond Green um punching his teammate Pool Jordan Pool, Right, that was an in house deal that was publicized, and had had had nobody ever seen it, probably it never would have been talked about. It wouldn't have been a suspension or anything would have been handled in the house. You you you know just as well as I do. We fight all the time in the locker room. So and uh, the Warriors did not suspend Raymond Green even though the public opinion was asking for some type of discipline. So sometimes you don't. Sometimes public opinion doesn't sway, right, sometimes it does. My thing is, do you think we'll ever see a point where in sports, specifically, where policy disciplinary policy will be a a specific um, regardless of who it is, regardless of when it is. When is it gonna come a point where just like a referee he sees you traveling, blows a whistle, turnover right, now sees you jump off sides, blow the whistle you're off side, live with it, right, and then obviously we can take it back to the booth if if it was a mistake, you'll pick up the flag. But will we ever see that in sports and business? I don't think so. Shot Um. I think there's a lot there. Um. I think one, you've got to have context into whatever this is. I mean, it varies what these these matters are. But I think the biggest reason why is because there's too much corporate affiliation when it comes to sports, so um, with all the sponsorship dollars and all the relationships, Um, the public pretty much dictates what the punishment is gonna be. And the louder the cry, the bigger the punishment typically, And UM, I think that's just where we are. So yeah, I like what you're saying, like being able to have Hay define given the league the ability to say, hey, here, here's the defined suspension. But I think what we've seen is if X offense requires a seven game suspension or five game suspension, then you hear this outcry like I can't believe it's only a fin It should be ten. You know. So they're constantly changing, so they're afraid to even define it because what they're really saying is is that we we will measure this based on the public outcry. And I have a problem with that because, um, I think we're in this really crazy time right now where public opinion is is driving everything right, Like, I don't see enough corporations standing up to the public pression. Again, this is you know, corporations being afraid because they don't want to lose revenues, bottom line revenue. They don't want to see their bottom line drop, and they want to try to make everyone happy. And I think you and I both know trying to make everyone happy is impossible, you know what I mean, It's been possible. They're they're constantly gonna be crying about something and this shouldn't be that. And I think, especially when you look into like athletes and entertainers and so on and so forth, a lot of this public outcry comes from envy. That's my personal opinion. A lot of the public outcry when it comes to some of these things that are happening off the field um to come from envy. People see, hey, you have a big platform, you have to make a lot of money. So you know, I mean, I was hearing people for you know, depending on what the situation like, they should give them, find them more money. It should be more money. I was like, wait, what do we you know what I mean, like, like, I am different and this is where I might get myself into trouble, but I'm not. I'm not a big fan of just going out and just suspending people and taking money and and just canceling people. Why because it doesn't change anything. It doesn't change anything. Yes, it might sting that person a little bit, but it doesn't change anything. I'm about educating people. It's the same thing like when you talk about reforming, right, like reforming minds. Like it's a process. It's not just here's here's money taken away from you, here's games taken away from you. Boom there. It is like being able to really take the time to actually educate people about whatever it is, the offense where you know, whatever it might be. Like you know, I think about you know, like when it comes to domestic violence, right, you know, it's not just and hey, we're gonna suspend this guy because of domestic violence. Like if that guy has an issue, educate him, get him help, get him counseling, whatever it might be. Make sure they go through that process rather than just to me. That's that's a deeper that's a deeper level of change than it is to say I'm going to define you. And I get it that, you know, the ad the privilege and so on and support suspension is fine. But when people just like, it's gotta be more money, it's gotta be this, It's gotta It's like, education to me is going to be the key, absolutely man. And you know, um, education is always gonna be a party, a key. And then the last part of the education is to apply, right knowledge, The idea of knowledge is power. I've never agreed with UM. I think knowledge is information and power comes from applying knowledge. Is is where power comes from. UM. But you gotta receive it. You gotta receive it first. You know, I will say this, you do information, And I think about this, like, I was so irritated in the height of the pandemic and everybody, you know, there was a lot of conspiracies out there about what this vaccination was all about. And you saw the public. Yeah, the still is right and there are a lot of people who were just going like, oh my gosh, you're not back then you should lose your job and you should. I can't believe you. Uh, people going like yo, I'm like, you know, there's another way to do this rather than calling for people's jobs, rather than you know, you know, guilty people and making them feel like like, take the time to educate, Hey, you have concerns about this, let's break this down even further for you, you know, but what ends up happening. Here's the danger of being so quick to punish and so quick to to find and so quick to condemn, right, that people start to hide, right. And I kind of liken it to this way, if this analogy even makes sense. It's like asking a question in class, and you know, people like you, a lot of kids fear like I'm gonna ask the dumb question, right, So what do they do instead? If they've been called dumb or people have made us stupid, what do they do? They hide? They sit in the back of the class and they never ask another question out of fear that they're going to be condemned, right or punished, So they sit back. They finished a class, and you realize they've learned nothing. They've gone either they've resulted to cheating. But what they've hugh, what they've hidden is their their ignorance. They've hid what they don't know or what they were trying to learn. And I think this is where we're going in our culture. Rather taking the time to educate people, we're deciding to shame people. I say it's conversation over confrontation, like being able to have the people like sit there and say hey, patient enough, generous enough, and say hey, look, it's probably gonna take you a little more extra time. I was that guy in class. I was like, God, I need a little extra time because maybe I wasn't processing it as fast as some of the other kids. And I also believe some of the other kids weren't processing it that fast as well. But they faked the phone just to be able to you know what I mean, So you couldn't tell that they had that. But I didn't. I didn't have that pride, Like if I didn't know something I want to I'm like, okay, I don't know, Like shoot me, I don't know it. I'm sorry, like teach me. But when you should know that, Like that's the other thing. Everybody feels like everybody should know everything, and that's so far in today's society because there's so much information out there. It's just like it's so like where do you even start, Like where do you even start? And like, well, you should know, you should know. It used to be where they said my my pe teacher told me this in high school. I never forgot it. He's a lock bar. There should be no excuse for ignorance. Today, I feel a little different. Back then, that was profound to me. I was like, man, that's true. Today, I gotta make an excuse. Shot, I gotta make an excuse because I'm like, you don't know good from bad anymore. Like there's so much out there, Like how do I even like? Like it's just too much information. Too much information could be very, very bad and dangerous, and I think that's where we are right now. Yeah, I think it's Uh, it's a it's an issue when m when you learn something for the first time, it's almost an embarrassment to say you did, Like it's like you should have known that, Um, you know, and uh like but yeah, you should have you should have been you should have known that, you know. It just goes back to education is sometimes we're embarrassed to even share the things that we learned because for the sake of showing our human side, because we spend most of our life trying to hold up this imagery that we have it all together because we think that's how we are in respect and also bringing income is having no flaws, and so to show them it's embarrassing, right, And so if if you do have that kind of care free, childlike attitude, I think you can learn more and connect with people more. Man, you know that's that you said something that triggered me, because, um, there is this pressure and I feel this pressure as a as a public person, um that you have to be perfect. And I'm like, I don't want to be Like I want to be perfect, but I don't want to be perfect, if that makes sense, Like, because I don't want people looking at me as if you know, um, you know I'm perfect, right, Like I have a lot to learn. One of my favorite interviews was when Michael Jackson. When Oprah Winfrey interviewed Michael Jackson at Neverland Belly Ranch and this great interview. You've never seen it, you should go back and watch it. But towards the end of the interview, she goes, Michael, you're forty something years or I think it's forty five at the time. Maybe maybe not so however old he was at the time, She goes, what do you know for sure? And he goes, oh, boy, well I don't know anything for sure. I'm still learning. And I was like, wow, I never forgot that I don't know how old I was, but I was a kid at the time when that of you came out, and I never forgot that. I'm still learning. I don't know anything for sure. I'm still learning, And I just think where we are in this world today, we need more grace that people are still learning and that we're constantly always learning to be show a little bit more grace to each other. I don't think we have that anymore. I think we're so quick to label. Labelization is the one of the greatest threats to our democracy, to our country, to our people, to humanity. Remember I told you that labelization. I don't know if the labialization is a word, but we're gonna add it. Labialization is like, if you don't see things the way I think, you're this, if you believe this, and I believe that you're that, and we got to give you a label because once we give you this label, it follows you no matter where you go. And people are outraged, and oh now now everyone is pretending so they don't get labeled, rather than being authentic and true to themselves. So we can help, So we can get together and help each other. Right. So it's like when people say they want to educate you or they want to learn. It's like, just see it my way. People aren't willing to have the discussion anymore. Like that's what education is about. It's a healthy way. He was like, Oh, I thought it was this, no, no, this, But what about if you did this and you know, there's that healthy discussion that needs to happen in the process of education. That's what college lecture halls were right. That was the whole sex appeal about college that you would now be able to kind of go back and forth with your professor to be able to have a higher learning rather than someone just speaking at you and going, okay, that's it. I can't question anything. I just have to say, this is it. People get offended now when you question, when you push back, and when you don't understand something right, Like people push, people get legitimately, they label you, and you're done. Once you get a label on you, you're done. So now you've got a lot of people speaking even sometimes I find itself, you know, sounded like Barack Obama just to give an authentic and I'm well, uh what maybe Claire, Uh well uh, because I'm thinking about everything coming out of my mouth. I'm like, I'm not I'm not even speaking sometimes to to be me. I'm speaking not to get canceled. I'm speaking not to like that's crazy, It's like and so then everyone starts to believe that everyone thinks the same thing. But everyone doesn't think the same thing. Everyone is just afraid of the same thing. Right. Can you imagine you say one thing and you lose everything? Right, Like, you're not gonna get people fully speaking the way they have like right, like speaking the way they really feel. Right, And I think part of there's a beauty in it, like like earlier when we started this show, like, Niko ahead, if you mess it up, I'm gonna I'm gonna help you out anyways. But like, can you imagine if you mess sit up? And I just like, I can't believe that you're abs and you're a vet for messing it up. You should have known, right you try, You'll never try. You're absolutely right, man, I had to say one thing to that. I think, Um, one of the reasons why we label people so we can quickly, um make a decision. We like to make quick decisions, right, and we don't like to slow down. Education takes time Um, labeling something is easier to I guess store it. That's why you, you know, think about it. Like your cabinets. You label things so you know where to place it because you don't want to sit here all day and and analyze, um, a particular food item. It's all right, all can goods. You're can good. You go over there. We'll sort you out later. I know you're a can. You're over there. I canna label you like, not the substance in it. Just let me see identify, quickly label. Okay, so I can keep on going in life? Well, man, I that I could. I could talk with you all day long. Um, and philosophers. Man, we're gonna have to have a whole separate show about it. Yeah yeah, I know, right. But we're where can and where can people go to support you find out your next move? What else you got going on in life? Man? Uh? How are you? Kids? Man? Kids are good? Man. I got my This is a big year for me as as a dad. I got all graduations this year. I got my oldest son graduating from the University of Oregon. Uh. My daughter is graduating from middle school, getting ready to go to the high school. She's six ft thirteen years old. Um, and then my twins are graduating elementary and going into middle school. So I'm just praying that the graduation gods don't line these graduations all on the same day because I've never missed a graduation. I've never ever missed a graduation. So I'm praying that I'm able to make this, Uh, make this the graduation year. This is this is a big year, man, So May and June is gonna be pretty stacked for me. Nice man, Well, listen, give your Instagram handle because you know you you do a lot. Uh and and everybody they can hear me. He's a loving Father's fun to watch the things that you do in time. He set uside for his kids, a great role model. Um, definitely give him your Instagram handle. I appreciate it. May. Yeah, it's a bar a K B A R underscore baja g b A j A. That's my Instagram handle, my TikTok handle. And then support your boy. Um, you know still, you know, putting my book out there, everyone can be a ninja. You can get it at Barnes and Nobles or you can get it on Amazon wherever books are sold. Um, but it's The Underdog Path to Success. I really kind of detailed my book, just like the Ninja course, life is an obstacle and how you overcome and get stories about how to overcome different obstacles in your life. Um and uh so, yeah, everyone can be in Ninja and they check me out on social man, I appreciate you supporting man Shot. Thank you so much for having me on the podcast at the Bag. Absolutely appreciate you. I want to thank everybody for tuning in to another episode of The Bag. Special shout out to akbar Bi Jamiller for being an amazing guest. Again. This is brought to you by our Heart Radio and Sports Illustrator. You can catch us every single Tuesday dropping a new bag wherever podcasts are consumed. We'll see you all next time. Great