Robert Godden

Alex Vickery-Howe

Musical Pilgrimage

First up, we're joined by Robert Godden to dissect the centuries-old tradition of 'pairing' in politics, a practice where MPs offset each other's absence to maintain voting fairness. However, this tradition faces threats in today's hyper-connected world, where political integrity can be overshadowed by social media activism and public shaming.

Following that, we sit down with Alex Vickery-Howe, discussing his provocative new play 'TRIGGERED'. The play offers a bold commentary on cancel culture and poses tough questions about free speech, artistic courage, and the cost of silencing in the social media age.

And as always, we’ll round things off with our Musical Pilgrimage, where this week, we feature Feel Into You, by Alison Newman.

So sit back, pour yourself a glass of your favourite South Australian spirit, and enjoy a journey through whisky, cars, and music!

You can navigate episodes using chapter markers in your podcast app. Not a fan of one segment? You can click next to jump to the next chapter in the show. We're here to serve!

The Adelaide Show Podcast: Awarded Silver for Best Interview Podcast in Australia at the 2021 Australian Podcast Awards and named as Finalist for Best News and Current Affairs Podcast in the 2018 Australian Podcast Awards.

And please consider becoming part of our podcast by joining our Inner Circle. It's an email list. Join it and you might get an email on a Sunday or Monday seeking question ideas, guest ideas and requests for other bits of feedback about YOUR podcast, The Adelaide Show. Email us directly and we'll add you to the list: podcast@theadelaideshow.com.au

If you enjoy the show, please leave us a 5-star review in iTunes or other podcast sites, or buy some great merch from our Red Bubble store - The Adelaide Show Shop. We'd greatly appreciate it.

And please talk about us and share our episodes on social media, it really helps build our community. Oh, and here's our index of all episode in one concise
page.

Running Sheet: Triggered By Cancel Culture And Political Pairing

00:00:00 Intro

Introduction

00:00:00 SA Drink Of The Week

There is no South Australian Drink Of The Week this week.

00:03:13 Robert Godden And The Principle Of Pairing

I'd like to explore the centuries-old principle of 'pairing' in politics—an honourable arrangement where a parliamentarian, unable to attend a vote, finds someone voting the other way to abstain as well, preserving the integrity of the parliamentary process. I would go so far as to claim that pairing is a hallmark of parliamentary civility, a gesture that underscores trust, respect, and a commitment to democracy that rises above partisan interests. In many ways, it’s a defining characteristic of a civilised society—keeping us far from Thomas Hobbes' grim view of life as 'nasty, brutish, and short.'

However, in a recent episode here in South Australia, this tradition was overshadowed by allegations of intimidation and public shaming. A prominent academic allegedly pressured an MP to break her pairing commitment, even threatening to ‘hold her to account in the public square.’ This incident raises serious questions about the fragility of our democratic norms and the implications of social media-fuelled activism on parliamentary integrity.

Joining me is Robert Godden, our resident political commentator, to discuss the erosion of such honourable traditions in politics, the risks to our institutions when personal agendas take precedence, and the ripple effects on workplace safety and culture in political environments. Robert, welcome back.

Why do you think the principle of pairing has endured for so long in politics, and what does it symbolise in our parliamentary culture?

Some might say that pairing demonstrates a level of trust and civility that's rare in today's political climate. Would you agree with that? And why do you think such civility matters?

When MPs honour pairing arrangements, how does this benefit the broader democratic process?

BACKGROUND

In Australia, following the 2010 federal election, the Opposition refused to grant automatic pairing to the minority Gillard government, leading to some embarrassing situations.
In the UK in 2018, there was controversy when Conservative MP Brandon Lewis broke a pairing agreement with Liberal Democrat MP Jo Swinson, who was on maternity leave.
In Australia, there was an incident where a pair was initially not given for a member to care for her sick baby.

Let’s talk about the recent incident where a professor threatened to 'hold an MP accountable in the public square' if she honoured her pairing agreement. What do you make of this approach?

Social media has become a powerful tool in political advocacy, but it can also be a blunt instrument. Do you see this incident as part of a broader trend of using social media to influence political processes, and what dangers does that pose?

In a way, this scenario seems to echo tactics often associated with figures like Donald Trump, who many say have eroded democratic norms by treating political rules as malleable. Do you think this kind of activism has a similar effect on our institutions?

Turning to the workplace aspect, SA Liberal MLC Jing Lee (who was the person at the centre of the pairing scandal) described feeling intimidated by this outside influence. How common is it for politicians to feel unsafe in their roles, and what might this incident reveal about workplace culture in parliament?

With your HR background, what are some safeguards that could help protect MPs from feeling this kind of pressure?

Bullying is a strong term that we often associate with corporate or school settings. How does the concept of workplace bullying apply to political environments, especially in a scenario like this where external pressures are involved?

Finally, what would you say to those who might argue that the ends justify the means in cases like these? Is it ever acceptable to erode a tradition like pairing for the sake of a particular political outcome?

00:32:15 Triggered by Alex Vickery-Howe

In 1971, Johnny Cash penned Man In Black in just 3 hours, responding to pressure to declare where he stood on various issues. The song, meant to express universal human compassion, was immediately politicised—praised by some, condemned by others. That was 50 years ago. Today, in our social media age, the pressure to declare allegiance and the swift judgment of those declarations has reached fever pitch. In our next interview, we're going to delve into the fabric of contemporary discourse through the lens of art. We'll be discussing the play, TRIGGERED, by Adelaide-based playwright Alex Vickery-Howe, a daring exploration of cancel culture through the lens of dark comedy, where he treads a fine line addressing contemporary issues with boldness and wit. Alex, welcome to The Adelaide Show.

TRIGGERED will be one of six new South Australian plays, being performed at the Odeon Theatre in Norwood across November and December 2025, as part of the South Australian Theatre Company's Great Australian Bites festival. These never-performed-before works will be rehearsed over several days by South Australian actors and directors and read script-in-hand. TRIGGERED will be performed on Friday, November 21, 2025, at 1:00 pm.

What sparked the idea for TRIGGERED? Was there a specific incident or moment that crystallised this concept for you?

The play centers on a journalist critiquing a comedian - why did you choose these particular opposing forces?

How does the format of a black comedy help navigate these sensitive themes?

This isn't the first time you've tackled extremism and ideology in your work. In 2021, I reviewed your play 'Watchlist', which explored these themes with intense character flaws and ideological battles. Now with 'TRIGGERED', you're examining cancel culture and social judgment. Do you see these plays as companion pieces in some way?

What fascinated me about 'Watchlist' was how you made all characters flawed, particularly Delia, whose rigid views alienated her from the audience. Are you employing similar character dynamics with your idealistic journalist in 'TRIGGERED'?

While we were setting up this interview, you mentioned being nervous about tackling this subject matter. Can you talk about those fears and why you decided to proceed anyway?

Are there certain topics you believe should be 'untouchable' in art, or does everything deserve examination?

How do you balance critique of 'wokeism' while acknowledging its important historical roots in racial justice?

It seems your play suggests that social media amplifies our worst instincts in these debates. What role does technology play in TRIGGERED?

I was listening to Bill Maher interview Dr Phil recently, and something fascinating happened. Dr Phil suggested we need 'counsel culture' not 'cancel culture'—taking people aside for genuine conversation rather than public condemnation. What intrigued me wasn't just the idea, but how quickly people dismissed it (and attacked me for sharing it) solely because it came from Dr Phil. Does your play explore this phenomenon where we judge ideas not by their merit but by who expresses them?

There's an interesting shift happening. Post-modernism taught us to separate art from artist, to judge work on its own merits. Yet today, it seems we're moving backward, judging every idea by its source rather than its substance. How does 'TRIGGERED' grapple with this contradiction?

The term 'woke' has traveled from Marcus Garvey's 1923 call for global Black consciousness to today's often-pejorative use. Does your play address how noble movements can become distorted?

The journalist in your play is described as 'idealistic' - are you exploring how good intentions can lead to harmful outcomes?

What do you hope audiences take away from TRIGGERED?

01:13:24 Musical Pilgrimage

In the Musical Pilgrimage, we feature Feel Into You by Alison Newman.

Alison has just released the fifth and final track from her EP titled Wolf . This project delves into her personal experience with postnatal depression, promising a deeply introspective and emotive musical journey. We played the first track from it back in episode 395.

Alison explains “The Wolf" plays the role of the PND, and she is akin to Little Red Riding Hood.

The final track, which we play in this episode, is a song to celebrate the people that helped her through PND, and it also made it into the Top 100 in the 2024 Listen Up Music Songwriters Prize.

We've also embedded the video clip in the show notes. Alison shared the clip sending the hugest of thank yous to Bree and Caitlin for choreographing and dancing, Cat, Noe and Tiana from the Limestone Coast Symphony Orchestra string section, Frank from Sir Robert Helpmann Theatre for giving her the stage, and to Marcus Jones who always listens to her wacky ideas and then brings them to life!! It was recorded in one continuous take in just a couple of hours!

First up, we're joined by Robert Godden to dissect the centuries-old tradition of 'pairing' in politics, a practice where MPs offset each other's absence to maintain voting fairness. However, this tradition faces threats in today's hyper-connected world, where political integrity can be overshadowed by social media activism and public shaming.
Following that, we sit down with Alex Vickery-Howe, discussing his provocative new play 'TRIGGERED'. The play offers a bold commentary on cancel culture and poses tough questions about free speech, artistic courage, and the cost of silencing in the social media age.
And as always, we’ll round things off with our Musical Pilgrimage, where this week, we feature Feel Into You, by Alison Newman.
So sit back, pour yourself a glass of your favourite South Australian spirit, and enjoy a journey through whisky, cars, and music!
You can navigate episodes using chapter markers in your podcast app. Not a fan of one segment? You can click next to jump to the next chapter in the show. We're here to serve!
The Adelaide Show Podcast: Awarded Silver for Best Interview Podcast in Australia at the 2021 Australian Podcast Awards and named as Finalist for Best News and Current Affairs Podcast in the 2018 Australian Podcast Awards.
And please consider becoming part of our podcast by joining our Inner Circle. It's an email list. Join it and you might get an email on a Sunday or Monday seeking question ideas, guest ideas and requests for other bits of feedback about YOUR podcast, The Adelaide Show. Email us directly and we'll add you to the list: <a href="mailto:podcast@theadelaideshow.com.au">podcast@theadelaideshow.com.au</a>
If you enjoy the show, please <a href="https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/another-boring-thursday-night/id696302138">leave us a 5-star review </a>in iTunes or other podcast sites, or buy some great merch from our Red Bubble store - <a href="https://www.redbubble.com/people/theadelaideshow/shop?asc=u">The Adelaide Show Shop</a>. We'd greatly appreciate it.
And please talk about us and share our episodes on social media, it really helps build our community. Oh, and here's <a href="https://theadelaideshow.com.au/complete-list-adelaide-show-episodes/">our index of all episode in one concise page.</a>
Running Sheet: Triggered By Cancel Culture And Political Pairing
00:00:00 Intro
Introduction
00:00:00 SA Drink Of The Week
There is no South Australian Drink Of The Week this week.
00:03:13 Robert Godden And The Principle Of Pairing
I'd like to explore the centuries-old principle of 'pairing' in politics—an honourable arrangement where a parliamentarian, unable to attend a vote, finds someone voting the other way to abstain as well, preserving the integrity of the parliamentary process. I would go so far as to claim that pairing is a hallmark of parliamentary civility, a gesture that underscores trust, respect, and a commitment to democracy that rises above partisan interests. In many ways, it’s a defining characteristic of a civilised society—keeping us far from Thomas Hobbes' grim view of life as 'nasty, brutish, and short.'
However, in a recent episode here in South Australia, this tradition was overshadowed by allegations of intimidation and public shaming. A prominent academic allegedly pressured an MP to break her pairing commitment, even threatening to ‘hold her to account in the public square.’ This incident raises serious questions about the fragility of our democratic norms and the implications of social media-fuelled activism on parliamentary integrity.
Joining me is Robert Godden, our resident political commentator, to discuss the erosion of such honourable traditions in politics, the risks to our institutions when personal agendas take precedence, and the ripple effects on workplace safety and culture in political environments. Robert, welcome back.
Why do you think the principle of pairing has endured for so long in politics, and what does it symbolise in our parliamentary culture?
Some might say that pairing demonstrates a level of trust and civility that's rare in today's political climate. Would you agree with that? And why do you think such civility matters?
When MPs honour pairing arrangements, how does this benefit the broader democratic process?
BACKGROUND
In Australia, following the 2010 federal election, the Opposition refused to grant automatic pairing to the minority Gillard government, leading to some embarrassing situations. In the UK in 2018, there was controversy when Conservative MP Brandon Lewis broke a pairing agreement with Liberal Democrat MP Jo Swinson, who was on maternity leave. In Australia, there was an incident where a pair was initially not given for a member to care for her sick baby.
Let’s talk about the recent incident where a professor threatened to 'hold an MP accountable in the public square' if she honoured her pairing agreement. What do you make of this approach?
Social media has become a powerful tool in political advocacy, but it can also be a blunt instrument. Do you see this incident as part of a broader trend of using social media to influence political processes, and what dangers does that pose?
In a way, this scenario seems to echo tactics often associated with figures like Donald Trump, who many say have eroded democratic norms by treating political rules as malleable. Do you think this kind of activism has a similar effect on our institutions?
Turning to the workplace aspect, SA Liberal MLC Jing Lee (who was the person at the centre of the pairing scandal) described feeling intimidated by this outside influence. How common is it for politicians to feel unsafe in their roles, and what might this incident reveal about workplace culture in parliament?
With your HR background, what are some safeguards that could help protect MPs from feeling this kind of pressure?
Bullying is a strong term that we often associate with corporate or school settings. How does the concept of workplace bullying apply to political environments, especially in a scenario like this where external pressures are involved?
Finally, what would you say to those who might argue that the ends justify the means in cases like these? Is it ever acceptable to erode a tradition like pairing for the sake of a particular political outcome?
00:32:15 Triggered by Alex Vickery-Howe
In 1971, Johnny Cash penned Man In Black in just 3 hours, responding to pressure to declare where he stood on various issues. The song, meant to express universal human compassion, was immediately politicised—praised by some, condemned by others. That was 50 years ago. Today, in our social media age, the pressure to declare allegiance and the swift judgment of those declarations has reached fever pitch. In our next interview, we're going to delve into the fabric of contemporary discourse through the lens of art. We'll be discussing the play, TRIGGERED, by Adelaide-based playwright Alex Vickery-Howe, a daring exploration of cancel culture through the lens of dark comedy, where he treads a fine line addressing contemporary issues with boldness and wit. Alex, welcome to The Adelaide Show.
TRIGGERED will be one of six new South Australian plays, being performed at the Odeon Theatre in Norwood across November and December 2025, as part of the South Australian Theatre Company's <a href="https://statetheatrecompany.com.au/shows/great-australian-bites/">Great Australian Bites</a> festival. These never-performed-before works will be rehearsed over several days by South Australian actors and directors and read script-in-hand. TRIGGERED will be performed on Friday, November 21, 2025, at 1:00 pm.
What sparked the idea for TRIGGERED? Was there a specific incident or moment that crystallised this concept for you?
The play centers on a journalist critiquing a comedian - why did you choose these particular opposing forces?
How does the format of a black comedy help navigate these sensitive themes?
This isn't the first time you've tackled extremism and ideology in your work. In 2021, I reviewed your play 'Watchlist', which explored these themes with intense character flaws and ideological battles. Now with 'TRIGGERED', you're examining cancel culture and social judgment. Do you see these plays as companion pieces in some way?
What fascinated me about 'Watchlist' was how you made all characters flawed, particularly Delia, whose rigid views alienated her from the audience. Are you employing similar character dynamics with your idealistic journalist in 'TRIGGERED'?
While we were setting up this interview, you mentioned being nervous about tackling this subject matter. Can you talk about those fears and why you decided to proceed anyway?
Are there certain topics you believe should be 'untouchable' in art, or does everything deserve examination?
How do you balance critique of 'wokeism' while acknowledging its important historical roots in racial justice?
It seems your play suggests that social media amplifies our worst instincts in these debates. What role does technology play in TRIGGERED?
I was listening to Bill Maher interview Dr Phil recently, and something fascinating happened. Dr Phil suggested we need 'counsel culture' not 'cancel culture'—taking people aside for genuine conversation rather than public condemnation. What intrigued me wasn't just the idea, but how quickly people dismissed it (and attacked me for sharing it) solely because it came from Dr Phil. Does your play explore this phenomenon where we judge ideas not by their merit but by who expresses them?
There's an interesting shift happening. Post-modernism taught us to separate art from artist, to judge work on its own merits. Yet today, it seems we're moving backward, judging every idea by its source rather than its substance. How does 'TRIGGERED' grapple with this contradiction?
The term 'woke' has traveled from Marcus Garvey's 1923 call for global Black consciousness to today's often-pejorative use. Does your play address how noble movements can become distorted?
The journalist in your play is described as 'idealistic' - are you exploring how good intentions can lead to harmful outcomes?
What do you hope audiences take away from TRIGGERED?
01:13:24 Musical Pilgrimage
In the Musical Pilgrimage, we feature Feel Into You by <a href="https://www.alisonnewman.net/wolf-epk">Alison Newman</a>.
Alison has just released the fifth and final track from her EP titled Wolf . This project delves into her personal experience with postnatal depression, promising a deeply introspective and emotive musical journey. We played the <a href="https://theadelaideshow.com.au/podcast-episodes/395-redgum-flavoured-mid-year-south-australian-politics-pulse-check/">first track from it back in episode 395</a>.
Alison explains “The Wolf" plays the role of the PND, and she is akin to Little Red Riding Hood.
The final track, which we play in this episode, is a song to celebrate the people that helped her through PND, and it also made it into the Top 100 in the 2024 Listen Up Music Songwriters Prize.
We've also embedded the video clip in the show notes. Alison shared the clip sending the hugest of thank yous to Bree and Caitlin for choreographing and dancing, Cat, Noe and Tiana from the <a href="https://www.lcso.org.au/">Limestone Coast Symphony Orchestra</a> string section, Frank from <a href="https://helpmann.countryarts.org.au/">Sir Robert Helpmann Theatre</a> for giving her the stage, and to Marcus Jones who always listens to her wacky ideas and then brings them to life!! It was recorded in one continuous take in just a couple of hours!

A weekly podcast recorded in Adelaide that puts South Australian passion on centre stage with a featured guest who joins us each week as a co-presenter to share how they're pursuing their passions. We venture across topics as diverse as history, wine, food, art, music, relationships, critical thinking, health, news, interviews, chat and quizzes. 

Every single interview, every single show, unlocks insights into what drives people to be doing what they're doing and what keeps them striving. 

The Adelaide Show is produced by Steve Davis and Nigel Dobson-Keeffe.

Please subscribe to our In Crowd list; you get an email each Friday (when we have published a new episode) with an overview of that week's show. Plus, consider joining our Inner Circle; a small group of passionate South Aussies who allow us to pick their brains and gain interviewee suggestions.

This podcast began life as Another Boring Thursday Night In Adelaide from episodes 1-79.

A podcast recorded in Adelaide that puts South Australian passion on centre stage with a featured guest who joins us each week as a co-presenter to share how they're pursuing their passions. We venture across topics as diverse as history, wine, ...

The Adelaide Show

A podcast recorded in Adelaide that puts South Australian passion on centre stage with a featured guest who joins us to share how they're pursuing their passions. We venture across topics as diverse as history, wine, food, art, music, relationships, critical thinking, health, and general news. Every single interview, every single show, unlocks insights into what drives people to be doing what they're doing and what keeps them striving. The Adelaide Show is produced by Steve Davis, and ends with an original song by a South Australian artist. Please subscribe to our In Crowd list; you get an email each Friday with an overview of that week's show. This podcast began life as Another Boring Thursday Night In Adelaide from episodes 1-79.

A podcast recorded in Adelaide that puts South Australian passion on centre stage with a featured guest who joins us to share how they're pursuing their passions. We venture across topics as diverse as history, wine, food, art, music, relationships, critical thinking, health, and general news. Every single interview, every single show, unlocks insights into what drives people to be doing what they're doing and what keeps them striving. The Adelaide Show is produced by Steve Davis, and ends with an original song by a South Australian artist. Please subscribe to our In Crowd list; you get an email each Friday with an overview of that week's show. This podcast began life as Another Boring Thursday Night In Adelaide from episodes 1-79.

In this episode, we navigate the contentious waters of politics and social media with Robert Godden, discussing the principle of 'pairing' in politics and its recent challenges. Then, we switch gears to delve into the arts with playwright Alex Vickery-Howe, whose play 'TRIGGERED' examines the sharp edges of cancel culture through a dark comedic lens.

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