Today, I have the honor of getting to talk with Dr. Scot McKnight. I know talking about the church falling apart does NOT sound fun...but it's such a needed conversation right now. So many of us have been or are currently in a complicated spot with a church. Dr. McKnight teaches us about hope, pain, and leadership. Y'all know I also LOVE a good Gospel conversation and this does not disappoint! I think you're really going to love learning from him. His latest book—co-written with Laura Barringer—called Pivot, which is such an important read if you’re a pastor or church leader or a business leader. It is a helpful, hard, beautiful book.

We begin the conversation talking a good bit about church hurt and if this is a part of your story, this episode may be tender to you. I wanted you to know beforehand so you can take care of your heart.

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NYTimes bestselling Christian author, speaker, and host of the That Sounds Fun Podcast, Annie F. Downs shares with you some of her favorite things: new books, faith conversations, entertainers not to miss, and interviews with friends.