Appogie Production. Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity to be.

Appogie Production. Hi, my name's beck Woodbine and welcome to Tenderness for Nurses. I'm grateful for the person that I have the opportunity to be.

So I hit it and parked it for Nelly four years. We always have free will, We always get to choose. We are autonomous.

So I hit it and parked it for Nelly four years. We always have free will, We always get to choose. We are autonomous.

Hi. Everyone, thank you for tuning back in to Tenderness for Nurses. Today I have Andy and Jason from ELG Sparkling chatting with me about their journey to producing and the development of H Sparkling, which is a beautiful sparkling drink for people that want to make other choices other than alcohol. And I actually tried it when I first stopped drinking it was I put an order in for you guys with you guys and gave it a whirl because there was nothing else around at that time five years ago. So thank you so much for taking the time to come on board. How did it all start?

Hi. Everyone, thank you for tuning back in to Tenderness for Nurses. Today I have Andy and Jason from ELG Sparkling chatting with me about their journey to producing and the development of H Sparkling, which is a beautiful sparkling drink for people that want to make other choices other than alcohol. And I actually tried it when I first stopped drinking it was I put an order in for you guys with you guys and gave it a whirl because there was nothing else around at that time five years ago. So thank you so much for taking the time to come on board. How did it all start?

Thanks for having us back first of all, and thank you for your order five years ago. That's very exciting. Well, I guess we're still here because of those early orders, So thanks, ye appreciate it. Thanks for having this on this afternoon back five years ago. We started the ex journey every time too his health and as you mentioned five years ago, there was a whole lot of options on the radar from an offering perspective in the Australian market of an adult sophisticated drink that wasn't alcoholic, and that's that's what we do.

Thanks for having us back first of all, and thank you for your order five years ago. That's very exciting. Well, I guess we're still here because of those early orders, So thanks, ye appreciate it. Thanks for having this on this afternoon back five years ago. We started the ex journey every time too his health and as you mentioned five years ago, there was a whole lot of options on the radar from an offering perspective in the Australian market of an adult sophisticated drink that wasn't alcoholic, and that's that's what we do.

And so our goal is to change Australia's relationship with alcohol, and that's what we're really trying to do and advocate for native Australian plants, but I'll get to that a bit later. But as you mentioned, as you say, that's that's the offering that we're trying to provide for Australian consumers. But there's a fair old backstory of that. So that's I'm just giving you the little five seconds shot of the big reason why for us is to change australia relationship with alcohol and provide great tasting, non alcoholic adult rates. But prior to that, we've both come from the wine industry two decades twenty three years in the wine industry, both as a wine maker, as management marketing sales. And what happened in our story is that my relationship with wine went from the love of my life who it tried to kill me. And that's the truth behind all the authenticity behind what we're doing now is the fact that I haven't had a drink now for six years. But that journey, I guess, and with our beverage experience and with this awareness that hang on, we still love socializing and some great things when we dine or when we socialize. Let's use our skills to add value to the community and due to Australians and offerings that are out there. And that's a really long answer to how we started, but also a little bit of a tease into some of the snippets of re authenticity of why we exist. We're not just a couple of wo have come up with a money's idea. It's come out of a real need that we personally observed, and we observed that others in Australia could benefit from.

And so our goal is to change Australia's relationship with alcohol, and that's what we're really trying to do and advocate for native Australian plants, but I'll get to that a bit later. But as you mentioned, as you say, that's that's the offering that we're trying to provide for Australian consumers. But there's a fair old backstory of that. So that's I'm just giving you the little five seconds shot of the big reason why for us is to change australia relationship with alcohol and provide great tasting, non alcoholic adult rates. But prior to that, we've both come from the wine industry two decades twenty three years in the wine industry, both as a wine maker, as management marketing sales. And what happened in our story is that my relationship with wine went from the love of my life who it tried to kill me. And that's the truth behind all the authenticity behind what we're doing now is the fact that I haven't had a drink now for six years. But that journey, I guess, and with our beverage experience and with this awareness that hang on, we still love socializing and some great things when we dine or when we socialize. Let's use our skills to add value to the community and due to Australians and offerings that are out there. And that's a really long answer to how we started, but also a little bit of a tease into some of the snippets of re authenticity of why we exist. We're not just a couple of wo have come up with a money's idea. It's come out of a real need that we personally observed, and we observed that others in Australia could benefit from.

And do you drink?

And do you drink?

I don't know.

I don't know.

So I stopped drinking to support Jason. So I'm about six and a half years. I don't really call myself sober, but I'm six and a half years alcohol free. So I stopped drinking before Jason to try and support him in drinking less during you know, during those last days of the heavy drinking. And yeah, I've just not I've not picked up a drink.

So I stopped drinking to support Jason. So I'm about six and a half years. I don't really call myself sober, but I'm six and a half years alcohol free. So I stopped drinking before Jason to try and support him in drinking less during you know, during those last days of the heavy drinking. And yeah, I've just not I've not picked up a drink.

Since, you know, through my recovery. I guess I'm really grateful that I didn't lose everything. Wasn't far from it, Probably only one drink away. But you know they talk about the yets in you know, haven't lost your job yet, haven't lost your finances yet, haven't lost your family yet. I might have only been one yet away. It wasn't actually a choice I was. I was pretty crooked at the end, and so it ended up being some of your cohorts that helped me out at Frankston Emergency for a couple of days. And it was at that point that I was really sick. Then I was powerless and over alcohol and the life was unmanageable. So it was a a period in time and acute illness period of time where I just had lost power and I was struggling with life. I guess having these chats, it's an interesting one about you know, we sometimes wear two hats. We've certainly got this commercial lens of yet with two business founders that are running a little family business. But it's coming from a place of of realness and authenticity to add to help people and have kept with a genuine need and desire that we see around for care. And I just as a beverage producers for so long, just didn't really and I didn't pick that up. The whole thing about caring for yourself and awareness that all that sort of stuff didn't come out for me until I know I had that forced maturing as a forty five year old at that time.

Since, you know, through my recovery. I guess I'm really grateful that I didn't lose everything. Wasn't far from it, Probably only one drink away. But you know they talk about the yets in you know, haven't lost your job yet, haven't lost your finances yet, haven't lost your family yet. I might have only been one yet away. It wasn't actually a choice I was. I was pretty crooked at the end, and so it ended up being some of your cohorts that helped me out at Frankston Emergency for a couple of days. And it was at that point that I was really sick. Then I was powerless and over alcohol and the life was unmanageable. So it was a a period in time and acute illness period of time where I just had lost power and I was struggling with life. I guess having these chats, it's an interesting one about you know, we sometimes wear two hats. We've certainly got this commercial lens of yet with two business founders that are running a little family business. But it's coming from a place of of realness and authenticity to add to help people and have kept with a genuine need and desire that we see around for care. And I just as a beverage producers for so long, just didn't really and I didn't pick that up. The whole thing about caring for yourself and awareness that all that sort of stuff didn't come out for me until I know I had that forced maturing as a forty five year old at that time.

Male.

Male.

Yeah, it's a tough journey to go on, and I it is funny. I find it tough to look back. Did you find that people fell away from your life Jason and Andy that you weren't drinking anymore?

Yeah, it's a tough journey to go on, and I it is funny. I find it tough to look back. Did you find that people fell away from your life Jason and Andy that you weren't drinking anymore?

I think removing alcohol from your life can shed some people from your life that perhaps aren't there for the right reasons. But I think the overwhelming majority stuck around. And I think what was more interesting is that by being vulnerable and sharing, Jason sharing his story and me having great friends that I can share my story with, we found that so many people felt more connected because we were being vulnerable and authentic and yeah, it actually like I know, Jason spoke to a table full of people that he barely knew. It was a wine function, I think, and shared his story and there was tears around the table saying me too. You know all my husbands was similar situation, or my wife or my auntie or what you know, like every single person knew somebody who had benefit to negatively by alcohol. And I think that's why for me, this sharing our story is really important because yeah, it's exposing that to other people and letting people see that it's that it's okay because it's stigmatized.

I think removing alcohol from your life can shed some people from your life that perhaps aren't there for the right reasons. But I think the overwhelming majority stuck around. And I think what was more interesting is that by being vulnerable and sharing, Jason sharing his story and me having great friends that I can share my story with, we found that so many people felt more connected because we were being vulnerable and authentic and yeah, it actually like I know, Jason spoke to a table full of people that he barely knew. It was a wine function, I think, and shared his story and there was tears around the table saying me too. You know all my husbands was similar situation, or my wife or my auntie or what you know, like every single person knew somebody who had benefit to negatively by alcohol. And I think that's why for me, this sharing our story is really important because yeah, it's exposing that to other people and letting people see that it's that it's okay because it's stigmatized.

It takes this thing out of this or you know, if there's perceived shame, which is one hurdle to get over, isn't it absolutely impart to go how can I be in Australian and not drink? Or I'm shamed for let this thing get old of me, or I'm shamed of myself and all of that negative self self talk is a part of the transition.

It takes this thing out of this or you know, if there's perceived shame, which is one hurdle to get over, isn't it absolutely impart to go how can I be in Australian and not drink? Or I'm shamed for let this thing get old of me, or I'm shamed of myself and all of that negative self self talk is a part of the transition.

Shame drives in silence, so it's by shining a light and saying, well, this is what happened, and you know, this is this is what it looks like, and it takes that shames.

Shame drives in silence, so it's by shining a light and saying, well, this is what happened, and you know, this is this is what it looks like, and it takes that shames.

And look at your life now, you know. And I think that's where it's absolutely fantastic in that you can go. Yeah, I went through a really shitty time. It was horrendous. Got the help I needed. You know, I still have to touch base and you know, look after myself and show myself tenermous. But look where we are now. Yeah, you know I'm doing a podcast and you were making you know, X sparkling. It's remarkable. Do you guys find that industry, that wine industry. A lot of people that work in that space have an issue with alcohol.

And look at your life now, you know. And I think that's where it's absolutely fantastic in that you can go. Yeah, I went through a really shitty time. It was horrendous. Got the help I needed. You know, I still have to touch base and you know, look after myself and show myself tenermous. But look where we are now. Yeah, you know I'm doing a podcast and you were making you know, X sparkling. It's remarkable. Do you guys find that industry, that wine industry. A lot of people that work in that space have an issue with alcohol.

Probably comes and say hospitality as well. I put in the same budget whenever you've got probably some of those intense work experiences and healthcare professionals. So if you've got a lot of emotional and mental stuff happening in a short period of time, yeah, sometimes you're looking for a solution to just oh just let me rest. Now, in the wind industry, in the hospitality that let me rest solution is this self medication called boost.

Probably comes and say hospitality as well. I put in the same budget whenever you've got probably some of those intense work experiences and healthcare professionals. So if you've got a lot of emotional and mental stuff happening in a short period of time, yeah, sometimes you're looking for a solution to just oh just let me rest. Now, in the wind industry, in the hospitality that let me rest solution is this self medication called boost.

Oh it's so glamorized, all that.

Oh it's so glamorized, all that.

Stuff and it's just so yeah. Look, it's just because it's around you all the time.

Stuff and it's just so yeah. Look, it's just because it's around you all the time.

And the culture and the culture and the accessibility.

And the culture and the culture and the accessibility.

So my rehab facility, right, this is when we're talking about accessibility in Australia. My rehab was it was eight k's away in Mornington and there's eleven liquor outlets between yeah and there. But that is just ridiculous. So I talking about accessibility, and I'm talking big box, big supermarket branded. It was right down to little boutique. Yeah, but eleven and yeah. The funniest well, it's not funny.

So my rehab facility, right, this is when we're talking about accessibility in Australia. My rehab was it was eight k's away in Mornington and there's eleven liquor outlets between yeah and there. But that is just ridiculous. So I talking about accessibility, and I'm talking big box, big supermarket branded. It was right down to little boutique. Yeah, but eleven and yeah. The funniest well, it's not funny.

I remember absolutely not thinking it was funny at the time, but going into rehab to visit Jason, and he had it, you know, window.

I remember absolutely not thinking it was funny at the time, but going into rehab to visit Jason, and he had it, you know, window.

Looking out over the rooftops, but.

Looking out over the rooftops, but.

The only thing you could see other than these rooftops was the thirsty camel sign.

The only thing you could see other than these rooftops was the thirsty camel sign.

You know.

You know.

I just thought, oh my god, that's terrible.

I just thought, oh my god, that's terrible.

Can someone just, you know, somehow just cover that a little bit up?

Can someone just, you know, somehow just cover that a little bit up?

You know? But that's life.

You know? But that's life.

And I think for me taking the blinkers off all of a sudden, everywhere I go in particularly in those early days, every bus shelter I saw had a ad. Walking into the grocery store, there were there were ads on the outside of the grocery store and the body of wine here, and like it's just it's just everywhere, as you say, it's glamorized.

And I think for me taking the blinkers off all of a sudden, everywhere I go in particularly in those early days, every bus shelter I saw had a ad. Walking into the grocery store, there were there were ads on the outside of the grocery store and the body of wine here, and like it's just it's just everywhere, as you say, it's glamorized.

So for us, it's all about.

So for us, it's all about.

You know, making sure we can have fun and celebrate and do all of the things that we would always have done, just without boozing our glass. So we can still now have a beautiful, fancy drink. I feel like we're standing around at a barbecue with it, you know, a drink in a hand, but it just doesn't have to include alcohol.

You know, making sure we can have fun and celebrate and do all of the things that we would always have done, just without boozing our glass. So we can still now have a beautiful, fancy drink. I feel like we're standing around at a barbecue with it, you know, a drink in a hand, but it just doesn't have to include alcohol.

So has the business in that last you know, six years gone from or five years here to here? Have you found? It's really because I feel that there's a shift, and particularly the younger generation all over not drinking. Have you found there's there's been huge support, I know, you know sober in the country. Support you guys, Clean Slate we do.

So has the business in that last you know, six years gone from or five years here to here? Have you found? It's really because I feel that there's a shift, and particularly the younger generation all over not drinking. Have you found there's there's been huge support, I know, you know sober in the country. Support you guys, Clean Slate we do.

We do farmers market everywhere on the weekend. When we started five years ago, people would walk past and that would be trying to be polite, but trying to be but being a bit funny, a smarter and alcohol free. What would you bother with a smile on their face, But behind that there's this little sting.

We do farmers market everywhere on the weekend. When we started five years ago, people would walk past and that would be trying to be polite, but trying to be but being a bit funny, a smarter and alcohol free. What would you bother with a smile on their face, But behind that there's this little sting.

Yeah, absolutely, and.

Yeah, absolutely, and.

We'd listened to it and you but now five years down the track, we would get any more fault Well when we very rarely get that, we now get thank you. But that's the massive shift and the acceptance of and the quality is improved. So in five years, the biggest shift has been that the industry stepped up a bit and instead of making adult drinks for sugar and chemicals but just try and replicate something that they're not, the industry has actually stepped up because it's now commercially viable having successful businesses. We're having shells in supermarkets and in big box liquor retailers that are dedicated to the space and it's weeding out a lot of the poor quality products. So therefore, if the products are good and they're desirable drink, then what does it matter if it's got ethan only it or not? If you just if you're not a personally, if you're a normy but an adult dream if it's like ours, it just should be greatness, aromatics, incredible structure matches to food is Moorish and then that's what it should be. So the industry has really stepped up to the plate and that was when we see chain and acceptance of adult beverages.

We'd listened to it and you but now five years down the track, we would get any more fault Well when we very rarely get that, we now get thank you. But that's the massive shift and the acceptance of and the quality is improved. So in five years, the biggest shift has been that the industry stepped up a bit and instead of making adult drinks for sugar and chemicals but just try and replicate something that they're not, the industry has actually stepped up because it's now commercially viable having successful businesses. We're having shells in supermarkets and in big box liquor retailers that are dedicated to the space and it's weeding out a lot of the poor quality products. So therefore, if the products are good and they're desirable drink, then what does it matter if it's got ethan only it or not? If you just if you're not a personally, if you're a normy but an adult dream if it's like ours, it just should be greatness, aromatics, incredible structure matches to food is Moorish and then that's what it should be. So the industry has really stepped up to the plate and that was when we see chain and acceptance of adult beverages.

Because you guys, it's all Australian sauced and Australian ingredients and flavors and fragrances and which I think is really fabulous.

Because you guys, it's all Australian sauced and Australian ingredients and flavors and fragrances and which I think is really fabulous.

The story behind that, when I was getting well, our local uncle Lionel, our local First Nations leader, down here on the morning to niche there are some of my favorite running tracks were in the bush down here in the morning and pinsula and Lionel took me down these and who was teaching me and we were eating the whole way down. He was doing some healing with me, which is just incredible. And that really just opened my eyes to how this is incredible, these native Australian fruits and herbs that I had no idea what the properties were. And it was at a time when I just logged that just logged it thought, how can I help amplify this from a sustainable agricultural perspective, from an awareness perspective, we need to know this stuff because it can be a part of our diet. And that's where that was the thought start of that, Well, what are we going to do for the rest of our lives? We can't make wine anymore? It was, well, how do we make an adult drink that taste great? How do we amplify native Australian fruits and herbs? And from uncle line introduce us to people all over the country. And so we now select native plants from Northern Territory, from Queenslan in New South Wales, from South Australia and Victoria and tasm and we make them into our drinks. And that's a way to sort of say, hey, did you know quandong originating from here, or finger lines or Davidson palms or whatever, and there's just another interest. So we've pinched a lot of our brand ethos and way of communications from the wine industry really because there's stories. There's there's stories around hey, this plant's connected to this country and this is the benefits from you, and this is where it's harvested and how it's harvested here it is.

The story behind that, when I was getting well, our local uncle Lionel, our local First Nations leader, down here on the morning to niche there are some of my favorite running tracks were in the bush down here in the morning and pinsula and Lionel took me down these and who was teaching me and we were eating the whole way down. He was doing some healing with me, which is just incredible. And that really just opened my eyes to how this is incredible, these native Australian fruits and herbs that I had no idea what the properties were. And it was at a time when I just logged that just logged it thought, how can I help amplify this from a sustainable agricultural perspective, from an awareness perspective, we need to know this stuff because it can be a part of our diet. And that's where that was the thought start of that, Well, what are we going to do for the rest of our lives? We can't make wine anymore? It was, well, how do we make an adult drink that taste great? How do we amplify native Australian fruits and herbs? And from uncle line introduce us to people all over the country. And so we now select native plants from Northern Territory, from Queenslan in New South Wales, from South Australia and Victoria and tasm and we make them into our drinks. And that's a way to sort of say, hey, did you know quandong originating from here, or finger lines or Davidson palms or whatever, and there's just another interest. So we've pinched a lot of our brand ethos and way of communications from the wine industry really because there's stories. There's there's stories around hey, this plant's connected to this country and this is the benefits from you, and this is where it's harvested and how it's harvested here it is.

I think that's brilliant, especially when you hit that overseas market.

I think that's brilliant, especially when you hit that overseas market.

It's similar to I guess where you'd say, you know, here's a chardona from this region in front. We're trying to do that with Australian ingredients. And one thing that we're really specific in, like we were talking about alcohol free drinks and how helpful they can be to people when they're trying to cut back drinking. Like for us, we have a lot of people who are just trying to cut back and so having the wine and they'll have a etch in a glass of wine, but I'm sorry in a glass. But for us, it was really important that we didn't want to replicate alcohol. So we're trying to challenge that idea that adult drinks need to look, smell, and taste like alcohol to be sophisticated and grown up. And I think that's probably our main point of difference.

It's similar to I guess where you'd say, you know, here's a chardona from this region in front. We're trying to do that with Australian ingredients. And one thing that we're really specific in, like we were talking about alcohol free drinks and how helpful they can be to people when they're trying to cut back drinking. Like for us, we have a lot of people who are just trying to cut back and so having the wine and they'll have a etch in a glass of wine, but I'm sorry in a glass. But for us, it was really important that we didn't want to replicate alcohol. So we're trying to challenge that idea that adult drinks need to look, smell, and taste like alcohol to be sophisticated and grown up. And I think that's probably our main point of difference.

There, because don't they say, and I have been too afraid to drink wine or champagne because they were might drink of choice, that the alcohol free wines, that there's evidence now that you have the same visceral response even though there's no ethanol in it, because of the taste and the way it's poured and in the glass, that you actually have a very similar response to if you were drinking alcohol. So I have been very It's funny. I can do the non alcoholic gin in a in a mocktail, but there's just no way I would drink or touch the non alcoholic wine or champagne. A it tastes like crap. But b it it's that I don't want to drink anything that's going to be at all similar to what my issue was.

There, because don't they say, and I have been too afraid to drink wine or champagne because they were might drink of choice, that the alcohol free wines, that there's evidence now that you have the same visceral response even though there's no ethanol in it, because of the taste and the way it's poured and in the glass, that you actually have a very similar response to if you were drinking alcohol. So I have been very It's funny. I can do the non alcoholic gin in a in a mocktail, but there's just no way I would drink or touch the non alcoholic wine or champagne. A it tastes like crap. But b it it's that I don't want to drink anything that's going to be at all similar to what my issue was.

Well, you've got to put up boundaries, and it sounds like you've got strong boundaries and that's it.

Well, you've got to put up boundaries, and it sounds like you've got strong boundaries and that's it.

Yeah, yeah, And I'd rather drink something like itch or a beautiful sparkling water with some lime in it or something like that, then.

Yeah, yeah, And I'd rather drink something like itch or a beautiful sparkling water with some lime in it or something like that, then.

Yeah, and that's okay.

Yeah, and that's okay.

Like that's where Itch came into it, because I used to go to I remember the Christmas party of the year Jason stopped drinking and everyone was standing around with a wine glass in their hand or a can of beer or something, and I had my soda water and a little top of were container with fresh lime in it, you know that, because I don't like sweet sugary drinks, and so that's where the delicate aromatic flavors come from. With eh, but yes, with you know, with drinking alcohol free drinks. I know Jason can drink alcohol free beer is okay, but we don't drink the wines for a similar reason. And I think you just have to be really careful and set your own boundaries because for some people they say they're you know, they're amazing and really helpful, and some people find them really helpful. In the early days, but thems that don't need them after a while. For me, it's it's sort of different in that because I watched what wine did to my husband, I just am repulsed by it now. So it's a difference. It's not a case of me wanting to look like I'm having a wine like I just think, why would I want to? But yeah, everyone's got to have their own their own reasons.

Like that's where Itch came into it, because I used to go to I remember the Christmas party of the year Jason stopped drinking and everyone was standing around with a wine glass in their hand or a can of beer or something, and I had my soda water and a little top of were container with fresh lime in it, you know that, because I don't like sweet sugary drinks, and so that's where the delicate aromatic flavors come from. With eh, but yes, with you know, with drinking alcohol free drinks. I know Jason can drink alcohol free beer is okay, but we don't drink the wines for a similar reason. And I think you just have to be really careful and set your own boundaries because for some people they say they're you know, they're amazing and really helpful, and some people find them really helpful. In the early days, but thems that don't need them after a while. For me, it's it's sort of different in that because I watched what wine did to my husband, I just am repulsed by it now. So it's a difference. It's not a case of me wanting to look like I'm having a wine like I just think, why would I want to? But yeah, everyone's got to have their own their own reasons.

That's so interesting. You actually, when you go out to a function that other people are drinking wine, how do you feel.

That's so interesting. You actually, when you go out to a function that other people are drinking wine, how do you feel.

There's never any judgment on anybody else. I just think, why would you want to put that in your body? I just I look at it now and go, yeah, I just have no desire. I mean I went out with friends recently and they were all having spicy margaritas, and they all had two or three or four or five over the night. And you know, I say this story that they were one hundred dollars poorer at the end. They were all saying to me, oh, so sweet, I've got you know, I've got this real sweet, sickly taste in my mouth.

There's never any judgment on anybody else. I just think, why would you want to put that in your body? I just I look at it now and go, yeah, I just have no desire. I mean I went out with friends recently and they were all having spicy margaritas, and they all had two or three or four or five over the night. And you know, I say this story that they were one hundred dollars poorer at the end. They were all saying to me, oh, so sweet, I've got you know, I've got this real sweet, sickly taste in my mouth.

Now.

Now.

They couldn't drive home, so I had to drive them home. And the next day they woke up feeling a crap and I had a great night. I can't even remember what I had. I think I had sparkling water, so I was really hydrated that night.

They couldn't drive home, so I had to drive them home. And the next day they woke up feeling a crap and I had a great night. I can't even remember what I had. I think I had sparkling water, so I was really hydrated that night.

Yeah, probably woke up.

Yeah, probably woke up.

Feeling a bit smike the next day. But yeah, there's never I mean, there's never anyjudgment from me. What other people do, I don't sort of that doesn't bother me at all. But yeah, I just I have zero interest in alcohol free wines.

Feeling a bit smike the next day. But yeah, there's never I mean, there's never anyjudgment from me. What other people do, I don't sort of that doesn't bother me at all. But yeah, I just I have zero interest in alcohol free wines.

Or I just want to get to a point and I've just got a bail. On nights like that, I can't be around people that are heavily intoxicated anymore. Yeah, no, are you the same, Jason?

Or I just want to get to a point and I've just got a bail. On nights like that, I can't be around people that are heavily intoxicated anymore. Yeah, no, are you the same, Jason?

I was just took the words out of my mouth. That's one of my boundaries. As soon as the words starts slurring or the stories are repeating, exit stage left. No one remembers that you've gone anyway.

I was just took the words out of my mouth. That's one of my boundaries. As soon as the words starts slurring or the stories are repeating, exit stage left. No one remembers that you've gone anyway.

No, they don't remember they Yeah, it was a great party.

No, they don't remember they Yeah, it was a great party.

The values change as well, so you know, it's one stage you probably really wanted to do the last to leave because you're having sobolutely having the best time of your life. But when you're not drinking, you may then have more value on what you're going to do the next day, and you know, you know that you can have just as good a time until maybe nine or ten, go home, have a solid app you know, nine hour eight hour sleep, Yeah, wake up and actually make use of the day.

The values change as well, so you know, it's one stage you probably really wanted to do the last to leave because you're having sobolutely having the best time of your life. But when you're not drinking, you may then have more value on what you're going to do the next day, and you know, you know that you can have just as good a time until maybe nine or ten, go home, have a solid app you know, nine hour eight hour sleep, Yeah, wake up and actually make use of the day.

Which is yea and the day is not wasted.

Which is yea and the day is not wasted.

One of the key things I've experienced is the development of that genuine interest in other people that has come from not drinking, and the fact that in the past I'll probably be inebriating. You'd always be one upping the stories and thinking of what you can do next or whatever, Whereas now you can quite hacklelegious. You're listening to what a person's saying, and you can ask intelligent questions and you come out of it going wow, that was a cool conversation. That was a good person, or I learned something or I took a gold nugget out of there or whatever that would never have happened because another line and you forget what you were so I.

One of the key things I've experienced is the development of that genuine interest in other people that has come from not drinking, and the fact that in the past I'll probably be inebriating. You'd always be one upping the stories and thinking of what you can do next or whatever, Whereas now you can quite hacklelegious. You're listening to what a person's saying, and you can ask intelligent questions and you come out of it going wow, that was a cool conversation. That was a good person, or I learned something or I took a gold nugget out of there or whatever that would never have happened because another line and you forget what you were so I.

Couldn't agree more. That is so so true, and I think I'm a far better person without drinking. I'm definitely kinder. I just am a better person. I've get more done, and I think, like I said before, when I spoke with Chris from Clean Slate. I have found women in particular my age, can be quite awful when they're inebriated. It's nice not to be around that.

Couldn't agree more. That is so so true, and I think I'm a far better person without drinking. I'm definitely kinder. I just am a better person. I've get more done, and I think, like I said before, when I spoke with Chris from Clean Slate. I have found women in particular my age, can be quite awful when they're inebriated. It's nice not to be around that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you guys have aligned yourself with some amazing not for profits, Sober in the Country being one. How is that going for you guys, Like, do you actively support them with functions and supplying the drinks or is it just that you want to support organizations that are, you know, supporting people that are having issues with alcohol.

So you guys have aligned yourself with some amazing not for profits, Sober in the Country being one. How is that going for you guys, Like, do you actively support them with functions and supplying the drinks or is it just that you want to support organizations that are, you know, supporting people that are having issues with alcohol.

With Sober in the Country, it's a little bit of it's probably It's definitely not a commercial drive because I'm a member of the group, as Jason Quinn not as ch I mentioned talk about it, people talk about it in the community, and because we're really clear on that delineation here is when we're trying to be a commercial business, that's a separate, completely separate thing. Our partnership with not for profits as you've mentioned, clans like so in the Country, it's around amplification of options and about the benefits of just some lifestyle changes that if you are if you were ill like where I was, there's there's routes to help. If you're on the pathway if we can plant the seed to go, Hey, just give some check in, don't have one of the yets happened to you yet, just make some changes. And that's why we really like to work with people that like that, because we can we can help amplify their stories and we can help facilitate someone's change. We're feedback on the email this week saying you've changed the shape of my husband in a funny what way because he's changes his relationship with Boom. He's lost people wait his exercise, and that for us is worth so much more than a black numbered P and L at the end of the month. Yeah, of course that's what we do. What we do. Yes, we're trying to run a business, but we're very clear on what's separate. It's about advocacy and aunlification of the healthy way of being.

With Sober in the Country, it's a little bit of it's probably It's definitely not a commercial drive because I'm a member of the group, as Jason Quinn not as ch I mentioned talk about it, people talk about it in the community, and because we're really clear on that delineation here is when we're trying to be a commercial business, that's a separate, completely separate thing. Our partnership with not for profits as you've mentioned, clans like so in the Country, it's around amplification of options and about the benefits of just some lifestyle changes that if you are if you were ill like where I was, there's there's routes to help. If you're on the pathway if we can plant the seed to go, Hey, just give some check in, don't have one of the yets happened to you yet, just make some changes. And that's why we really like to work with people that like that, because we can we can help amplify their stories and we can help facilitate someone's change. We're feedback on the email this week saying you've changed the shape of my husband in a funny what way because he's changes his relationship with Boom. He's lost people wait his exercise, and that for us is worth so much more than a black numbered P and L at the end of the month. Yeah, of course that's what we do. What we do. Yes, we're trying to run a business, but we're very clear on what's separate. It's about advocacy and aunlification of the healthy way of being.

And I think when we first launched it, they were in bottles and I always say, itch is a message in a bottle, So it's it's for me. Sober in the country helps us to get our drinks into the hands of people who actually need our drinks, not just one. So for some people, I mean I've had numerous messages which just likes that boat, just saying, you know, your drinks have changed my life, which is an incredible statement when you're talking about a drink company. And I just think for us, it's not just about the drinks. It's the fact that we're standing here saying this is our story, this is what happened to us. You don't have to get to this point, you know, check in with your relationship with alcohol. And again for me, I'm fifty two and I speak to people all the time who in my age group who say, oh, I just can't drink like I used to drink, or you know, I get a headache now every time I drink, And there's actually a reason for that. It's not just that you're you know, you need to drink more to get practice. Your body is actually processes are changing in your body. So, yeah, being able to share these stories and yeah, talk to people like you and your audience that hopefully can you know, there'll be people who need to hear the message.

And I think when we first launched it, they were in bottles and I always say, itch is a message in a bottle, So it's it's for me. Sober in the country helps us to get our drinks into the hands of people who actually need our drinks, not just one. So for some people, I mean I've had numerous messages which just likes that boat, just saying, you know, your drinks have changed my life, which is an incredible statement when you're talking about a drink company. And I just think for us, it's not just about the drinks. It's the fact that we're standing here saying this is our story, this is what happened to us. You don't have to get to this point, you know, check in with your relationship with alcohol. And again for me, I'm fifty two and I speak to people all the time who in my age group who say, oh, I just can't drink like I used to drink, or you know, I get a headache now every time I drink, And there's actually a reason for that. It's not just that you're you know, you need to drink more to get practice. Your body is actually processes are changing in your body. So, yeah, being able to share these stories and yeah, talk to people like you and your audience that hopefully can you know, there'll be people who need to hear the message.

And without a doubt, that's one of the things I'm really support Fair Australia and they recently released a statement on Instagram about how Facebook is looking at the algorithms and targeting people that have alcohol and gambling issues and then they specifically target those people and you've got the ethics around that is so wrong, and I mean, how do you stop that? And of course Fair are trying to stop that through legislation. And you know the ads and you know the stuff with Schoolies last year that hard Solo came out and that was all done a little bit, you know, in a naughty manner, but it got through before Schoolies and then they pulled it. And you know, we need people like you guys and organizations like Fair and Sober in the country. Two, I think really highlight what's going on out there, and it is a problem in our country. You know, it is a cultural thing and they're targeting the most vulnerable and things have to change in that in that regard.

And without a doubt, that's one of the things I'm really support Fair Australia and they recently released a statement on Instagram about how Facebook is looking at the algorithms and targeting people that have alcohol and gambling issues and then they specifically target those people and you've got the ethics around that is so wrong, and I mean, how do you stop that? And of course Fair are trying to stop that through legislation. And you know the ads and you know the stuff with Schoolies last year that hard Solo came out and that was all done a little bit, you know, in a naughty manner, but it got through before Schoolies and then they pulled it. And you know, we need people like you guys and organizations like Fair and Sober in the country. Two, I think really highlight what's going on out there, and it is a problem in our country. You know, it is a cultural thing and they're targeting the most vulnerable and things have to change in that in that regard.

Sorry, I'm going to bug in there because I so on my daily scroll I am constantly fed alcohol advertising. And do you know how you can go in and see why am I seeing this ad? And so I will go in and say, don't show me this ad. And you can actually put in their words to not show me, and I've put in their numerous times don't show me, whine and don't show me alcohol, but it doesn't change.

Sorry, I'm going to bug in there because I so on my daily scroll I am constantly fed alcohol advertising. And do you know how you can go in and see why am I seeing this ad? And so I will go in and say, don't show me this ad. And you can actually put in their words to not show me, and I've put in their numerous times don't show me, whine and don't show me alcohol, but it doesn't change.

I'm constant getting it.

I'm constant getting it.

And I mean the challenge we've got is we use the word alcohol free. So the word alcohol is in there, but it's I just think there needs to be some changes in that because I'm constantly thinking about, well, what if I was a vulnerable person and I was trying to stop and this is just constantly being said to me.

And I mean the challenge we've got is we use the word alcohol free. So the word alcohol is in there, but it's I just think there needs to be some changes in that because I'm constantly thinking about, well, what if I was a vulnerable person and I was trying to stop and this is just constantly being said to me.

Oh absolutely. And imagine gambling, the gambling ads and people that have a real issue with gambled I mean, I mean, I think the alcohol adds are bad, but I think gambling is ten times worse.

Oh absolutely. And imagine gambling, the gambling ads and people that have a real issue with gambled I mean, I mean, I think the alcohol adds are bad, but I think gambling is ten times worse.

There's too much money commercially in alcohol. There's too much excise tax being raped in by the government. Of every unit of alcohol they get hot nearly half of it.

There's too much money commercially in alcohol. There's too much excise tax being raped in by the government. Of every unit of alcohol they get hot nearly half of it.

Oh is it half?

Oh is it half?

Well, depending on whether it's a wine, a beer, or a spirit, I don't know. Is that the exact excise numbers per per category? Yeah, excuse me this, but I know from a wine perspective, there's twenty nine percent wine equalization. That's plus the GST, so you're already up to thirty one percent of that every unit of your bottle, picture, forty percent of it's going off to tax, so.

Well, depending on whether it's a wine, a beer, or a spirit, I don't know. Is that the exact excise numbers per per category? Yeah, excuse me this, but I know from a wine perspective, there's twenty nine percent wine equalization. That's plus the GST, so you're already up to thirty one percent of that every unit of your bottle, picture, forty percent of it's going off to tax, so.

The government's not going to change anything because they're breaking the money.

The government's not going to change anything because they're breaking the money.

And it's very similar to cigarettes, though when you think about cigarettes twenty years ago, it would have been a very similar thing attacks. But it's education and people speaking up, and I think there is definitely a shift happening. The younger generation are drinking less. They're having their green smoothies and doing a yogurt instead of hungover, and I think there is a shift. And I think the more you know, social media is a great tool for sharing this information as well all that we talk about the fact. I mean, I don't want us to come across as prohibitioness because if you can enjoy drinking, you know, in moderation, you do you But we know that alcohols a type one carcinogen. But I mean do we know that? I know that, But is that a public you know? I feel like that's something that not everyone knows.

And it's very similar to cigarettes, though when you think about cigarettes twenty years ago, it would have been a very similar thing attacks. But it's education and people speaking up, and I think there is definitely a shift happening. The younger generation are drinking less. They're having their green smoothies and doing a yogurt instead of hungover, and I think there is a shift. And I think the more you know, social media is a great tool for sharing this information as well all that we talk about the fact. I mean, I don't want us to come across as prohibitioness because if you can enjoy drinking, you know, in moderation, you do you But we know that alcohols a type one carcinogen. But I mean do we know that? I know that, But is that a public you know? I feel like that's something that not everyone knows.

Now.

Now.

People don't know that. I just think it's good for your health because they've been told that red wine is good for your health. It's all the antioxidants.

People don't know that. I just think it's good for your health because they've been told that red wine is good for your health. It's all the antioxidants.

Information.

Information.

We could make educated choices about what we want to do with them. But I think when we're not being given the information or you know, and perhaps in some cases you wouldn't want to hear it, so you're not going to hear it even if it's there.

We could make educated choices about what we want to do with them. But I think when we're not being given the information or you know, and perhaps in some cases you wouldn't want to hear it, so you're not going to hear it even if it's there.

But I just think it can be.

But I just think it can be.

Shared more, and you know, social media is a break.

Shared more, and you know, social media is a break.

Tool for that.

Tool for that.

I absolutely agree with you, and I think social media can be used for so much good and not target so many vulnerable people because you are vulnerable when you're in that state. You don't care what it takes to get a drink. You just want that ethanol in your system.

I absolutely agree with you, and I think social media can be used for so much good and not target so many vulnerable people because you are vulnerable when you're in that state. You don't care what it takes to get a drink. You just want that ethanol in your system.

More home delivery services have popped up, particularly after COVID solution to get delivery home. There was an unfortunate death in Sydney where I think that people media where a gentleman as he was an addictive person and just kept and he was founded, and I think that it's just a shocking scenario that occur.

More home delivery services have popped up, particularly after COVID solution to get delivery home. There was an unfortunate death in Sydney where I think that people media where a gentleman as he was an addictive person and just kept and he was founded, and I think that it's just a shocking scenario that occur.

I just found it hard during COVID that the wine, you know, the bottle, is that sort of thing we're deemed as a necessary business and if you think about it, we probably all would have literally had a meltdown if they hadn't been able to buy alcohol, because you know, that would have just stopped and everyone would have lost their shit, but it's pretty sad that it's seemed as an essential service.

I just found it hard during COVID that the wine, you know, the bottle, is that sort of thing we're deemed as a necessary business and if you think about it, we probably all would have literally had a meltdown if they hadn't been able to buy alcohol, because you know, that would have just stopped and everyone would have lost their shit, but it's pretty sad that it's seemed as an essential service.

Yeah, and that shows you again much the government had something to lose if they would, you know, and you're rightly right in saying that there would have been a lot of very angry people there are and probably a lot of really sick people who would absolutely touring as well.

Yeah, and that shows you again much the government had something to lose if they would, you know, and you're rightly right in saying that there would have been a lot of very angry people there are and probably a lot of really sick people who would absolutely touring as well.

So yeah, yeah, without without a doubt, I think they.

So yeah, yeah, without without a doubt, I think they.

Considered all that probably, But I just feel so grateful that Jason had got sober brightic COVID because I really feel people during that time, when you know, you are isolated, and that's something that you often do when you're in that state, is isolate yourself, and I think people being stuck at home. We have so many people say that they stopped drinking during that time. And for us, we started our business in November twenty.

Considered all that probably, But I just feel so grateful that Jason had got sober brightic COVID because I really feel people during that time, when you know, you are isolated, and that's something that you often do when you're in that state, is isolate yourself, and I think people being stuck at home. We have so many people say that they stopped drinking during that time. And for us, we started our business in November twenty.

Nineteen and this happened he very much and it.

Nineteen and this happened he very much and it.

Was really interesting for us watching the initial lockdowns, everyone was drinking, but that second lockdown, for us in Victoria, a lot of people stopped drinking and that's when we started to get a lot of interest because they were saying, well, hang on, you know, we're starting at lunchtime now. And you know, we need to put a pullback. And I think that's where the rise of the alcohol free drinks space really took off.

Was really interesting for us watching the initial lockdowns, everyone was drinking, but that second lockdown, for us in Victoria, a lot of people stopped drinking and that's when we started to get a lot of interest because they were saying, well, hang on, you know, we're starting at lunchtime now. And you know, we need to put a pullback. And I think that's where the rise of the alcohol free drinks space really took off.

It's interesting when you have a platform, the number of people that reach out to you. I am constantly asked about how I stopped drinking, what I did, how it's changed my life? Is it for the better? Was it really hard? Like it's really interesting the number of people that do approach me and reach out to me just wanting to know how I did it, because there are a lot of people out there, I think that are really struggling.

It's interesting when you have a platform, the number of people that reach out to you. I am constantly asked about how I stopped drinking, what I did, how it's changed my life? Is it for the better? Was it really hard? Like it's really interesting the number of people that do approach me and reach out to me just wanting to know how I did it, because there are a lot of people out there, I think that are really struggling.

How did you do it?

How did you do it?

That I knew I had a problem. I went saw a GP who brushed me off and made me feel like fool. I knew a psychiatrist, well, I knew his wife, and I reached out to her and said would he feel comfortable in seeing me? And at this stage, I was at a tipping point where I was going to get really bad, and I went and saw him. He put me on Campero for six months. But from the day he put me on it, I just decided I wasn't going to drink again, and I haven't. So you know, whether I had alcohol use disorder or not or I mean, I certainly was behaving as someone that was starting to get very out of control. I don't know, I don't know how I was just able to stop, but I did, and I just made my mind up. And I haven't had a drink since then and won't because life is so much better without it.

That I knew I had a problem. I went saw a GP who brushed me off and made me feel like fool. I knew a psychiatrist, well, I knew his wife, and I reached out to her and said would he feel comfortable in seeing me? And at this stage, I was at a tipping point where I was going to get really bad, and I went and saw him. He put me on Campero for six months. But from the day he put me on it, I just decided I wasn't going to drink again, and I haven't. So you know, whether I had alcohol use disorder or not or I mean, I certainly was behaving as someone that was starting to get very out of control. I don't know, I don't know how I was just able to stop, but I did, and I just made my mind up. And I haven't had a drink since then and won't because life is so much better without it.

I think those words like olcoholic can be a really derogatory word.

I think those words like olcoholic can be a really derogatory word.

I hate it, yeah, and I.

I hate it, yeah, and I.

Think I mean I used to use it not a positive but in a neutral word way, but so many people say I'm not an alcoholic, and I think I think it's considered quite a stigmatized word. Yes, so I think the alcohol used disorder and the fact that there's so many different levels of alcohols disorder. Absolutely, And also, like the gray area, drinking is also something that resonates with a lot of people you might not consider yourself, like for me, I remember doing a lot of googling in these days, going, well, I knew there was the man on the park bench, you know that was brown paper bag, but my husband doesn't look like that, So why is he so sick? And why can't he stop drinking?

Think I mean I used to use it not a positive but in a neutral word way, but so many people say I'm not an alcoholic, and I think I think it's considered quite a stigmatized word. Yes, so I think the alcohol used disorder and the fact that there's so many different levels of alcohols disorder. Absolutely, And also, like the gray area, drinking is also something that resonates with a lot of people you might not consider yourself, like for me, I remember doing a lot of googling in these days, going, well, I knew there was the man on the park bench, you know that was brown paper bag, but my husband doesn't look like that, So why is he so sick? And why can't he stop drinking?

What's he? Then?

What's he? Then?

And you know, I remember googling what does an alcoholic look like? Or you know, how do you know if one's an alcoholic? And I think, I mean that's one thing in itself is that if you questioning whether you've got a.

And you know, I remember googling what does an alcoholic look like? Or you know, how do you know if one's an alcoholic? And I think, I mean that's one thing in itself is that if you questioning whether you've got a.

Problem with alcohol, you got a problem. You've probably got a problem with alcohol.

Problem with alcohol, you got a problem. You've probably got a problem with alcohol.

Because people who don't have a problem with alcohol don't google.

Because people who don't have a problem with alcohol don't google.

That's it exactly.

That's it exactly.

See.

See.

I don't like the term sober either. I have a and it's just me. I just have an issue with it. I'm just a non drinker. Yeah.

I don't like the term sober either. I have a and it's just me. I just have an issue with it. I'm just a non drinker. Yeah.

Well I say alcohol free because I think being free is liberating and so yeah, I'm free of alcohol.

Well I say alcohol free because I think being free is liberating and so yeah, I'm free of alcohol.

Because to me, sober has a connotation around being an alcoholic. And I really have an issue with the term alcoholic because you know, I didn't miss a day of work, and you know, I just managed my drinking hard and fast so I could go to bed and then but it got to the stage earth honestly, I was, Yeah, I was going down a very dark hole.

Because to me, sober has a connotation around being an alcoholic. And I really have an issue with the term alcoholic because you know, I didn't miss a day of work, and you know, I just managed my drinking hard and fast so I could go to bed and then but it got to the stage earth honestly, I was, Yeah, I was going down a very dark hole.

I think this fear of the word alcoholic. I hear so many people say I'm not an alcoholic.

I think this fear of the word alcoholic. I hear so many people say I'm not an alcoholic.

I'm not.

I'm not.

You know, I wasn't an alcoholic, but I had to stop drinking and I just think, yeah, just take the power out of that word, like it just you know, you.

You know, I wasn't an alcoholic, but I had to stop drinking and I just think, yeah, just take the power out of that word, like it just you know, you.

Have a problem. You may have had an issue with alcohol.

Have a problem. You may have had an issue with alcohol.

Whether you're an alcoholic or not, it doesn't matter, you know that the point is that you're that you're trying to get well and to get off. You don't have to put yourself into a box and say, well, gosh, am I an alcoholic or am I? I think it's just alcohol is not serving me. And I do not know anybody who has stopped drinking who wishes they were back in that state.

Whether you're an alcoholic or not, it doesn't matter, you know that the point is that you're that you're trying to get well and to get off. You don't have to put yourself into a box and say, well, gosh, am I an alcoholic or am I? I think it's just alcohol is not serving me. And I do not know anybody who has stopped drinking who wishes they were back in that state.

You so mind you.

You so mind you.

I must say, I have used the term alcoholic when people have hustled me and hassled me to have a drink like you've been out, and they goingnah, come on, you're right, you know you're fine. And I actually have turned around and said, listen mate, I'm an alkie, so you know you need to back off. That stops the conversation pretty quick. They go, oh god, sorry, yeah, it's like, you know, just back off, It's okay, I don't want to drink. They just can't let it go. But guys, thank you so much for coming in and chatting with me. And I really appreciate the fact that you're both so open about your journey because having been there myself, you know it has its moments. And I'm just delighted that you've got such an amazing product, and you know that you're out there helping communities and sober in the country and people that really are quite vulnerable and need assistance. So it's wonderful that you're applying a drink that makes us all feel dare I say it normal? So I love it.

I must say, I have used the term alcoholic when people have hustled me and hassled me to have a drink like you've been out, and they goingnah, come on, you're right, you know you're fine. And I actually have turned around and said, listen mate, I'm an alkie, so you know you need to back off. That stops the conversation pretty quick. They go, oh god, sorry, yeah, it's like, you know, just back off, It's okay, I don't want to drink. They just can't let it go. But guys, thank you so much for coming in and chatting with me. And I really appreciate the fact that you're both so open about your journey because having been there myself, you know it has its moments. And I'm just delighted that you've got such an amazing product, and you know that you're out there helping communities and sober in the country and people that really are quite vulnerable and need assistance. So it's wonderful that you're applying a drink that makes us all feel dare I say it normal? So I love it.

Well. I guess you should put a plug in for sober in the country. If you're out in the regions, get in touch with the crew. Wonderful website resource that has support services, reading material and then contact information as well. That's more dedicated to people out in the bush. And I guess to read the city based people, it would be Chris and it's clean slate.

Well. I guess you should put a plug in for sober in the country. If you're out in the regions, get in touch with the crew. Wonderful website resource that has support services, reading material and then contact information as well. That's more dedicated to people out in the bush. And I guess to read the city based people, it would be Chris and it's clean slate.

And if you want to try and change the dialogue around alcohol, then get on board with Fair Australia because they're often after people to write in or share their stories things like that, So I think Fair needs a fair bit of support as well. So there are some great organizations out there that are really trying to change the landscape around alcohol. Yeah, and you guys are one of them.

And if you want to try and change the dialogue around alcohol, then get on board with Fair Australia because they're often after people to write in or share their stories things like that, So I think Fair needs a fair bit of support as well. So there are some great organizations out there that are really trying to change the landscape around alcohol. Yeah, and you guys are one of them.

And just one last word on edge is that each stands for every time choose health. And I think you know, when you're in that state where you're trying to drink less, it's opening the fridge and sy know canavech there and going, what's my choice the bottle of wine or the can of beage, And you know that's that little message that hopefully helps somebody.

And just one last word on edge is that each stands for every time choose health. And I think you know, when you're in that state where you're trying to drink less, it's opening the fridge and sy know canavech there and going, what's my choice the bottle of wine or the can of beage, And you know that's that little message that hopefully helps somebody.

I think that's wonderful

I think that's wonderful