Tell Me About It With Jade IovineWhen ‘The Shift’ Hits The Fan feat. Tinx
This week Tinx joined the TMAI group chat to talk VERY openly about the rollercoaster year she’s had.
We talked about the theories she grew famous for, the tweets that got her canceled, and the book she wrote about it all: ‘The Shift’.
You may think you know her, or that you’ve made your mind up about her controversies, and hear me when I say all opinions are valid and welcome. What she reveals in this conversation is her firsthand, very personal account of what that experience was actually like to go through-–judgment and morality aside. To rise and fall, to have the internet and people you thought were your friends turn against you, to have to own the worst things you’ve done, and resist the urge to abandon yourself when everyone else is running for the hills…when the love and fame suddenly turns into public hate.
You’ll hear her talk about all of it in this episode, like never before.
The first half of our conversation is about everything from what would happen if people were honest about their relationships, choosing whether or not to sleep with someone you started dating, the tightrope-walk of living with the Big Three (Anxiety, Depression, and ADHD), to the failproof sex position Tinx swears by. Then, we take a deep dive into the darker side of Tinx’s story.
As always, I want to know what you guys think - so DM me and we’ll talk allllll about it. And stay tuned for our big show announcement next Tuesday…
Get a copy of Tinx’s Book ‘The Shift’ here!
Produced by Catherine Law
Edited and Engineered by Brandon Dickert
Hey, Tanks, Hi, thank you so much for having me on. I'm so excited to chat.
First of all, it's weird that we don't know each other.
I know, I don't know how that happened. I know, I don't know either.
It's I guess because maybe you moved into pandemic. It's bizarre that we've never crossed paths at Ariwon or anything. I know.
I was gonna say if anywhere at the wandering the aisles of Airwon for our next wellness fix or hack, I'm shocked. We probably have been like on different aisles looking at different overpriced snacks at the same time and just not seen each other.
No, can I tell you the really toxic trait that I'm gonna admit to you that I'm never at arawon because I instacart everything.
As you should. Honestly, I love Instacart. I love all those delivery services. You know what, whatever makes you feel good?
Yeah, not a huge fan of leaving my house.
Exactly, And you got to do you so tell me about your enormous drug of water.
This is my saving grace. You know, I'm an elitist, a water elitist.
You know what do you it tastes good enjoy.
So yesterday was supposed to be the luckiest day of the year.
Did you hear that? I did. I didn't feel lucky vibes. Honestly, I'm I'm really into manifesting. I really did not feel the lucky vibes. I still did a little manifestation exercise because I think, you know, you've always got to be putting those cosmic seeds out there, planting those good seeds. But I didn't totally feel the energy. And that's okay. Sometimes you don't. I know, we are coming close to a mercury in retrograde. I'm perceiving a ghost vibes kind of come up. So did you do any manifesting?
No, I'm just an entitled sob because I'm just like, oh no, it's supposed to be the luckiest day of the year. I don't need to do anything. I'm just gonna wait till it comes to me.
There you go. That's the type of manifesting too. So you're doing great.
Yeah, just lucky girl, sendrame. I guess just like I'm entitled to this. No, but it definitely was not the luckiest day of the year. And and by the way, I don't think it was.
For any people, right, Yeah, everyone, there was like too much hype around it. I'm very into finding your own days or things that symbolize luck and positivity to you, Like I think that's really powerful. Like my followers know that I love Broncos, like a vintage Bronco when anytime I see one on the street, specifically a baby blue, and I view it as like a good omen And so I'm very into like whatever your thing is, Like if you have a lucky number, if you see it kind of in a random you know, and if you're checking out and your lucky numbers there, take that as a moment to like be grateful and put out the manifesting vibes. I think that's like a really accessible and great way for people to practice gratitude and also manifest.
No totally, and I love that section of your book, which we'll get to in a second because today is your book release day, I know, but I love when you talked about that in your book, like just not really chasing the dragon of happiness, but finding joy like in the little things, finding a special thing that represents joy to you in the world, so that you're reminded of it all the time.
Yeah, I think that people can be you know, I think that we from the time we're little, everyone is like, happiness is the goal. You have to be happy, you have to be happy, and like, of course happiness is the goal. But I think it can be hard sometimes when people are thinking about it practically, like how can I be happy? Like I'm just going to work this week, Like okay, maybe that feels like difficult for you. There's a lot of anxiety in the world and what have you. So for me, it was really all came down to this article that I read on Goop about finding joy and joy is much more attainable than happiness and actually if you seek little joys in your everyday life, it will raise the waterline level of your happiness. And so in the article they talk about little things that you can do to spark joy, like people who have a brightly colored front door, Like that shows that those people are happy because every time they come home, they're like, oh my blue door whatever, Having like brightly colored nails, if you're into that, wearing a brightly colored sweater, like I always say to my community, like go once a week, drive ten minutes extra to go to the good coffee shop and get yourself like the fun latte. Like doing those little things. They it seems little, but it adds up, and chips make chunks when it comes to happiness.
No, I could not agree more. Like if you look at my house, there is not an inch that's not covered in some vibrant color or pattern or wallpaper that like brings me so much joy. I really feel like we're just hanging on by a fucking little thread here in our day to day lives. And like if you around your house keep picture frames of people that you love or items that remind you of your childhood, Like our happiness really is made up of those little moments that seem so inconsequential but aren't at all. And like those brightly colored sweaters that you mentioned, I call them my serotonin sweaters, because sometimes you just need to be able to look at yourself in the mirror and get happy just from the color that you're wearing.
It's so true. And I think as adults sometimes we shy away from doing things that are little happiness moments or joy moments because we're like, oh, it's frivolous, or like I'm an adult, but I really Ever since I started doing the opposite and leaning into those like almost childlike moments of joy, I've been a lot happier. Even if you're like, oh, it's like ten o'clock, like I'm kind of had a bad day. Whatever, go get yourself the froio, Like, get in your car, play your favorite songs. Go get yourself the froio, and like those things matter, Like it really really matters to do those little things, because it's like you said, sometimes we are literally sometimes I'm literally so close to snapping, and I'm like, you know what, I need a vanilla ice latte from Alfred and it's going to change my mood. And it does, so I'm all about it.
Yeah, Like, I think so many of us want to take this passive approach to things like happiness and joy and just wait for those things to magically happen to us. But I think it's an entirely different story to go out in the world and actively seek those things. You're much more likely to experience joy if you don't wait for it to happen to you. But I took that course on happiness that oh, doctor Santos like that Yale chorus or whatever.
Yeah, how was it.
I was like, hmm, maybe have isn't for me. I just it was like, no, it was great. She's a genius obviously, like her work is, you know, incontestably incredible. But there's nothing to kill your happiness like chasing happiness.
No, it's true, it's true. And that's why it feels.
Like I'm working so hard on this. I feel like I should know how to do this inherently.
Literally, and like even to bring it back around like your water, Like getting that water for you is a joy trigger and it's like completely if you should like if that makes you happy, Like that's a perfect example of like, Okay, it makes you seem silly to some people, but to you, it makes you feel joyful and it's happy. And every time you look at your water, you're like, fuck, yeah, my special water. And yeah, and.
I did something for myself, you know what I mean. And you like, maybe it's expensive and you cut corners in another area of your.
Life, you know what I mean.
But it's like you have to, cause you can't just have a passive approach to the universe and just think like, Okay, whatever is good is going to come to me miraculously.
A thousand percent, and especially for women. I feel like women, especially like their own joyful things or their own like things that give them serotonin, are always the first to go. Women get older and they're like, oh, like, I don't have to go work out today, I can stay extra and do extra work, or like oh yeah, I can make the extra cupcakes for my kids class. I don't need to like take a bath tonight. And women are told that the more that they do those sacrifices, like, the better a woman that they are. But that's not true. And I really believe in like filling up your own cup first before you ask someone to love you, become a partner, have a family, Like, you've got to fill up your own cup and you've got to keep it full so that you can show up in those other areas of your life.
Totally, like, how can you expect someone else to love you if you don't know how to love you?
You know, exactly?
No, I completely agree with you, just out of curiosity. What what are your big three? Like your signs?
Virgo, moon, cancer, Virgo. I'm virgo virgo cancer. I forget which ones, but I'm very very virgo y. Yeah, but where's the cancer is that your son? Is that like your main one, or is that like you're rising. I feel like it's rising. I feel like it's rising.
Okay, that's why I'm like, there's something about you that I'm just like, there's some like wavelength I don't know, and I'm like, I think it's our cancer risings. Yeah, it's the Yeah, our rivers run deep. Man, they're so deep. Oh my god, it's too deep too, like you feel too much? Like enough, Yes, me too, everything everything. Yeah, And I'm working on the resilient aspect of it. I'm working on like shaking certain things because if something happens in the morning, I carry it all day. If some if I see something sad on the street and I just pass it in my car, I can't shake it.
Oh I know, you, I know, I feel so deeply and it's like it's honestly, it's a good I really really believe in like always finding the good, good about that, good about everything, but good about feeling so deeply because I love it. And I'm like, you know, I love that I can love so deeply. But oh my god, I wish that I could just tone it down sometimes because sometimes I just get so effect buy something. I sound insane, but I'm like I will go to a concert and I'll feel like too much emotion. I'm like, this is so powerful, Like I love this so much. I feel so connected to humanity in this moment. That's just not the drugs talking. It was literally about fucking thing.
I'm kidding, I say, after how much molly is that?
Literally? No? But or it's like this morning, I was doing my radio show and I was talking about how I always read the spoilers for really sad movies or shows.
My best friend fucking does that drives me insane.
But I can't. I'll be too upset. Like I can never just watch it go in raw because if I would be like crying, like I would be so upset. And if I know, then at least I feel like I have control over it. So yeah, it's a good thing to feel deeply. It's I always tell also my followers, like in a breakup, it's one shift you can make. Is like when you're really down bad and you feel so upset, it's like because you love that deeply, and the only reason you're feeling that sad is because that's the capacity of your heart, and so it's like, wow, like that's amazing, and just take a moment of gratitude that you can feel those things, because I believe we're put on earth to like experience all the emotions and all the things. So it's like, that's what you're doing.
And your pendulum, like you know, everyone's is different how far it can swing in each direction. You know, it can only swing in one direction as far as it can swing in the other exactly. Yeah, it's so interesting. But you know, as you're talking, I'm and I read your book. I devoured one day, literally in twenty four hours. It's amazing.
You're so sweet, thank you, and it was just.
So fun to read, like you just feel like you're sitting with you and hanging out and it was extremely refreshing. But then I'm reminded that I don't know if it's the Big three astrology that we connect on duh, it's the Big three of depression, anxiety, and ADHD.
That's where we Yeah, I'm like, that's that's it. That's that's the real thing. It takes one to know one. I'm like, oh, okay, okay, I know this breed. It truly takes one to know one. Yeah, I I'm like so open about that stuff, not only because I think we need to break the taboo and it just helps, but it's like selfishly a way that I process is process it all is to like make fun of it and like personify my anxiety and call him mister Anxiety and protect he's like a weird man who lives in my house and stuff like that. So that's definitely why we connect.
You know. That's absolutely fucking epic. Yeah, no, it's it's true because you have to. Like That's what helps me too, is like connecting over it because when you're going through it, you're like, this has got to be just me. This is absolutely insane. This is like because they're your own thoughts and it sounds like you, and it's hard to imagine that other people feel it as deeply, or it's that it affects them and cripples them as much as it does us. It also makes it easier to go through something. I think, just in general, when there's a purpose, when you feel like, Okay, I'm going through this so I can share it with someone else, like there's something that makes it a little easier.
Yeah, no, one thousand percent. And I just like truly believe in the power of sharing information, especially between women, Like I think it's for me. The thing that makes me feel be better about any situation is like someone preferably a woman, being like, Okay, I went through this, and this is what will happen. And that's true with like medical things and like anxiety, mental health stuff, relationship things. And that started when I was very young. I went to an all girls school, and I just have vivid memories of like being on the bus coming home from school and me being to the older girls like, well, then what happens like when you get your period and they were like, okay, well this is what goes down and then it's like weird, and then telling me about their boyfriends and all this stuff, and it was just like I felt in those moments and still do when I connect with other women about stuff, I'm like so connected to the universe and all women and it just it makes me feel better because that's the most human thing, is a one person telling another person I've been through this and you'll get through it and this is how that's like the best.
That's literally exclusively why I started the show and why you do what you do. You know, it's it's so true because it's yeah, if you can be a survival guide for someone else, or like that's what I've always used. It is like other women's story. I love what you said in your book, and we'll talk more about the book, or we'll talk a lot about the book, but that women are part of this universal like our connection is almost cosmic. Like it's like like we all go through these universal experiences more so than men do.
We really do. It's just special. And I really say that from a place of knowing. It's I'm not trying to like shit on men. I think that's an unhelpful narrative largely, but it's like there's something about women that is so cosmic and our connection because our experience on earth for a million reasons, is so textured.
No, especially as you get older, because you learn that so much of our lives are really dictated by one thing, which is like our hormones, you know, in so many ways, and so it's nice to know that other people deal with that. And I think when we're younger, we're like, you don't think about that, you're not as educated about your body and stuff. And to know that we all get one good week month and we all you know what I mean, all those things.
Literally, you couldn't have said it better. I think that's so true. And it's just like you've spoken a lot about how when you feel like that moment, Oh, I'm not the only one that is the best relief you can get, no matter what your ailment is.
For so long, I you know, I would talk to my husband about it and like, just ways too sorry. I'm like newly married, so it's very weird for me to say husband. So it's like, I swear it still sounds weird coming out of my mouth. Like my boyfriend, my field, the guy who lives me whatever, they're like this man who.
Lives in my house, Yes exactly.
But I would talk to him so often because he switched schools so much, and I was like how that, Like, wasn't that so traumatizing blah blah blah, and he would always say like, no, I really just found out that someone else liked the Lakers, and then we became best friends. Yeah, And then I'm kind of thinking maybe as adults, maybe I thought it was Bravo for a while, which is always my which is you know a major form of currency that I used between women, but we could have hormone talk forever. That maybe is our bonding factor.
No, we could literally, like I could I've gotten on here today and been like, let's talk about estrogen for an hour, and you would have been like, okay, here's what I got, and we could have literally had a very fulfilling and interesting conversation for an hour.
No scientific terms, just like how it makes you feel, and like how often bizarre you feel. Yeah, it's crazy that we're expected to like go about our normal lives when we're not ourselves, even with depression or anything, but mostly with like our.
With our bones. No one, it's so insane, even the like three days before you get your period, when you feel actually so mentally ill and so not yourself, and then you you actually feel like the world is ending and you're like in a ball and like if you have anxieties while you're just like, well this is me done, like goodbye, Like I'm gonna go to bed and just live in my bed, and then you get your period and you're like I'm fine.
Right, one hundred percent. So let's talk about the shift. So that is what your book is called. Can you explain the shift? As a concept.
Yes I can't well. But firstly, honestly, everything that we've been saying connects so much to the book. I wrote The Shift as a guidebook for self esteem because that's something that I really struggled with, and I didn't know that I realized that I struggled with in my twenties. It's about dating. It's kind of a dating anthology. All of my antics, all of my missteps, I mean mainly missteps in my twenties, everything I wish I could have done differently, So again connected to what we were talking about. Just I really really really want girls to learn from my mistakes. I really could have used this book when I was nineteen and four and still need to read it again now. But yes, that's an aside. So that's what The Shift is about, all about these little easy mindset shifts. How you can change your perspective and know your self worth, raise your self esteem and get a great perspective, especially when it comes to dating. Yeah.
I love the way it was written because it's text, and then there are little blurbs of like how to make the shift in relation to what you just read, and they're everywhere.
And I really started living this way at the end of my twenties beginning of my thirties, where I was like, this also connects to the beginning of our conversation about happiness and joy. And it's just like small shifts that made me feel so much better, just made me feel so much happier overall, just raised the waterline of joy and happiness. Just new ways to look at things. And it's all about how we frame things. It's all about how we frame things.
Abs so fusolutely, and not to give away any spoilers, but we need to talk about the most important part of the book that blew my fucking mind. And I feel like I hate all my friends for never telling me this. Tell us about the finisher position. Oh my god, Tanks, I was like, read like trying it on my bed, I was like, what is going on here? This is a sex position.
It's a sex position, and I definitely did not invent it. I don't know what the name is for it. I'm sure there's some commerce sutra name for it that's like, you know, more legit. So it's just this amazing sex position. If you want to know about it, you have to go get my book and read it. I promise it's worth it, and it just is the best because it is so worth it, you guys. It feels good and it's easy, and I would love to be one of those girls who says like, oh yeah, I go on top four hours. Like I'm kind of lazy in bed, Like I enjoy a few acrobatics here and there.
But how you do one thing is how you do everything. You know, lazy in life.
I'm lazy exactly. I'm just like, you know, I don't I don't need to try that hard. And this is just like it makes it. It feels like you're putting in a lot of effort, but it's actually easy and that's what we love. And it just it's called the finisher for a reason.
So it's good absolutely. I mean like when I read that, I was like, this is worth buying the book alone. This is absolutely there you go, revolutionary, you.
Guys heard it. There you go, It's true.
It was I was like, oh my god, First of all, why didn't ever learn this like in school?
It should be taught in schools.
Yeah, it's ridiculous, but I love just the overall, like I took that from it and so much more. But just to show that there's also like cause it's about dating, and there's like a section dating, and there's a section of like actually being in a couple and breakups and not disappearing into the abyss of a relationship, and then it's about like self worth and happiness and like your life your terms.
Yeah, I think there's different sections. And I know a lot of people wonder like would it be right for me if I'm already in a relationship, because I just you know, I think we've all also had that experience of like losing ourselves in a relationship and like, you know, losing losing connectivity with our friends. Stop. You know, everyone has that boyfriend where you like totally disappear and then you come up for air six months later and you're like, wait, I have no girlfriends and like I don't know what's going on, and like whoa, Yeah, I.
Mean it's so normal. Like every relationship I've ever been in, that's been the case for at least the first six months.
And I think it's so important. Even if you found the love of your life, and everyone will and I pray that for everyone, but like you still need to have your own life and that is so so key, and that's something I truly believe. I think you show up better as a partner if you have your own friends, your own hobbies, your own interests, and you really hold those things sacred to yourself because at the end of the day, you need to be your own best friend and you need to make yourself happy. You can't always rely on your partner to make you happy. You have to you have to bring that to the table too. So it's yeah, definitely right for anyone, no matter what your stage is, no what or what your marital status is. No.
Absolutely, And like what you just said reminded me of something that I heard once that was like, you should never blame someone else for like a fire that has dimmed or a light that has dimmed inside of you.
Totally you're responsible for your own I really do believe that. And it's like from both angles, it's like you can't expect someone else to make you happy, and you also can't you can't make someone else happy, So it's like you both have to bring it to the table and that will create a stronger partnership and a healthier relationship. Because when I was younger, I totally used to think like I used to be that girl who'd be like, when I get a boyfriend, I'm gonna be happy, like when I get a boyfriend, like any boyfriend. And then what does that lead How does that lead you to act that well? From personal experience? That leads you to act like a complete lunatic. You're chasing guys who don't like you, and you've pinned all your hopes on this thing, this this boyfriend, right, and it's like, but have you stopped to think about how you feel about yourself? Like are you good with yourself? Like? Is your side of the street clean? Like? Are you and good standing with your work, your friends, your family? Do you feel proud and good about how you take care of your body all of those things? Like if you focus on those things, someone will drop in, like faster than you can even imagine.
Yeah, because how deliciously convenient is it to blame your unhappiness on external factors only? Like your anxiety loves it because we don't have any control over it. We feel like it's happening to us, there's nothing we can do, et cetera, et cetera. What I love in your book is this concept talking about this idea of like so many people think that even happiness is like this destination is well, you know, and that like, oh, I shouldn't get into a relationship until I fully love myself and I'm happy. And that can be really confusing for people as well, because it's like, okay, wait, even now I'm married, I don't like, am I happy? Yeah? Yeah, I think so. It depends on the second of the day, you know. But I think what you enforce is this idea of you just have to know what makes you happy one hundred people. You don't necessarily have to be on the top of Mount Olympus exactly.
You have to know what makes you happy. And again, that's going to just feed your relationship in such a positive way, because I think the problem is like you pin all your hopes on like having a boyfriend or whatever, and then you get there and you're like, oh, like they're just a person too, Like they have bad days too, Like they are a whole universe ecosystem of their own, and like, yeah, of course it's wonderful to be in love and find someone you connect with, but they can't like feed you, like they can't fan your flame, like you have to do it yourself and then you come together and you can, you know, have a beautiful relationship. But it's like you have to you have to keep your own shit right.
Totally, even down to like you have to know how to calm yourself down alone. You have to know how to do all of those things with the idea of like that someone could not be in your life one day, you know, like not to put it such a negative spin, but even down to like your parents, your friends, the only thing that you have at the end of the day is yourself. And I don't mean to sound so like humdrum and lonely, but it's like, no, if you learn how to take care of yourself, it makes all your relationships better and easier.
One thousand percent. And no, I really feel you on that. And it's like, again, neither of us are like negative, so it's not in this way, but it's like nothing is guaranteed.
Yeah, and I've said this on other episodes of our show, but I firmly believe that a relationship is only as strong as each person's willingness to leave, you know. So it's like if you know, if all your eggs are in that basket and you know how to self regulate without them, and you don't know how to you're not financially stable without them, all of that stuff that makes your willingness to leave smaller.
So I love that. I've never heard that, but that is so frickin' true. It is so true.
You have to be able to self regulate, you have to be your own life raft. But I just love the picture you painted of you moving to LA because this is truly like out of a horror movie, Like what this is everyone's worst nightmare, and like the fact that you lived. Obviously we understand the pain is subjective and other people go through other day. Yeah, but it's just like moving to LA at twenty nine, which is arguably, even out of the pandemic, one of the more lonely places to live if you don't have a foundation, because like everyone's in their car or in their house. Yeah, And you said you were you applied for a mustard company, you're doing marketing for a weed company, and you were alone.
Oh my god, I applied for so many jobs. I was so alone, and I flew directly. I moved from New York and I went to my friend's wedding and it was just like if you're in your late twenty early thirties and you are still in the panic. I was in the panic at that time, and I was like, oh, my fucking God, like full mental breakdown. And then I moved to la and I was like, Wow, I was just at a wedding where my beautiful friend got married to her beautiful husband and the wedding was perfect, and all my other friends are engaged. And I am sitting here in a studio apartment with two suitcases, just having moved the third time in my twenties. I have no job. I just got a job that was like a consulting job at a weed company. I don't smoke weed. I really don't know what the difference between Indica and sativa is. That made me laugh. I'm going to a weed conference. I did. I went to a weed conference in Humboldt. I don't know if you know about.
Well, I've actually been to that conference. I am a weed smoker, so I've been.
Yeah, so it was actually kind of fun. And let me just say take this moment to day. By the way, the weed community is very nice. They were very accepting to me, even though I'm very nice people. What the hell I was talking about and I was like, I remember sitting at that conference. I was like eating like these random rice noodles outside and I remember just crying, being like I'm doomed. I'm I'm doomed. And I was applying all these internships and like I was twenty nine, I was like, well, I'm gonna do unpaid work at twenty nine. Like my pride, my ego was out of control, full panic attack. Like I had friends, a few friends in LA from school, but I wasn't like LA is really hard. It's not like New York where you run into people and you make friends easily, and like, you know, there's a sense of camaraderie in La. As you said, everyone is in their car, their house. And I was like, oof, I've really done it this time. I'm really going too far. And then the pandemic hit and I was like hmm. I was like, this is me done. Okay, I'll just phone it in. Then I don't mean to leave to laugh to keep from crying. It's really just it's terrible, really, But then once you're over the panic, and again I really really like to talk about it because like I was there, once you're over the panic, and you just get over that hump of like, oh I'm not going to be like a twenty eight year old bride, and you shift and you and you start to feel your friend winds in your bones. That's something I talk about a lot of to like feel their joy in your bones comparison to the people of joy. Once you get over that, it's the most freeing, incredible experience.
Yeah. I mean, we all are guilty of looking at things like your dream job, having a baby, getting in a relationship, getting married. We see all these benchmarks and these milestones as being the solution to our unhappiness, or that once we achieve those things, then we get the keys to happiness, when in reality, there's nothing like reaching those milestones like getting married or having a baby to make you realize that wherever you go, there you are. There's nothing like getting married to realize that, you know what I mean, Like you're like, oh shit, okay, still very depressed, you know what I mean, like all those things, I brought all my bags with me. But yeah, it's true. It's it's definitely hard because people often because they're so desperate to become half of a whole being with the wrong person I cannot emphasize this enough. Is worse than your any worst single day ever.
Yeah ever.
And speaking of single days, I think the single most epic piece of advice when you're dating is that you cannot do anything right with the wrong person, and you cannot do anything wrong with the right person. So that means all the times that you think you fucked up, all the embarrassing things that you think you said, all the ways in which you've maybe fucked up in your interactions with this person of interest, it doesn't matter if that is your person, if that is the person that the universe has destined you to be with, they will not care what is meant for you. Cannot and will not miss you.
I couldn't agree more. You said it so right, It's so true, and it's like that's so much of the shift. Also is just like you know, girls will write to me and they'll be like, oh my god, I was like texting a guy and then he goes to me and I think it's because I use like too many exclamation points, and I'm like, no, Like the right guy, that's literally box theory, Like the right the guy who's obsessed with you. You could literally puke on him, and he'd be like, let's let's go, like I still want to date you, and that's that should be stress relieving because it's like it's all good, like there's a plan, just go with it, just keep throwing the boat. You're you're already in the plan. We're good. We speak the same language so much, I literally I know. I love this.
Yeah, So I love box theory because initially I was very confused by it. Not confused, but I just didn't really understand it fully. Now I feel like I really do, and it's absolutely genius. At first, I thought like, okay, like once you're in a box of someone's like you can't shift right, And I was like okay, but sometimes, like people go from friends to more, it's not about that. Basically, it's like saying that, you know, so many people have the three date rule where they won't sleep with a guy until the third date because they want to show they're virginal or whatever, you know what they want to show. They have all these rules of like Okay, if I do this, then he'll if I add two whys to the text message, then he'll text me back. And it's like no, no, no, their decisions already made up, right, That's what it is totally.
It's exactly what you do is set honestly the with the you can't do anything right with the wrong person, and you can't do anything wrong with the right person. It's essentially that. It's like, if a guy wants to date you, you could act almost anyway. You could sleep with him on the first date. It won't matter because he wants to date you. If you're just in the hookup box and he doesn't see you as a date person. You could literally act for original and you could talk about how much you love your parents and all this stuff. He's still not going to want to date you and that. And then people say like, well, that puts all the you know, all the power in the guy's hands, tanks, And I'm like, no, no, no, It's about knowing where you stand with someone, because I think so many young women get caught in the trap of like, well I can, like I know, I can manipulate him into wanting to date me, and like, after eight months of holding on to the bare minimum, he finally said I was his girlfriend. And I'm like, okay, like you, well, oh, how romantic. You literally manipulated someone into wanting to be with you, Like, I just don't believe that it should be that much of a struggle, and you've just got to know where you stand. It's really about sex a lot of the A lot of the time when I when I bring it up is because you should sleep with someone when you want to, Like that's the ultimate power move is to not think like, oh, how will this affect the power and the relationship. The ultimate power move is to say it's been five dates and I really feel like sleeping with them tonight, so I'm gonna do it. Or Hey, it's the first night, but we're vibing and I'm just in the mood and I'm going to sleep with them tonight. That is powerful.
I could not agree more. I hate when people are like, oh, and then we slept together and they say it in such a shameful way, and I'm like, so fucking what.
I'm like, you wanted to like honor your past selves decision, like that's what she wanted to do with that time, And it's just such a fallacy that that shifts the guy's perspective if you're in your mind. Because I every time I talk about box theory, I get about one hundred dms, being like I slept with my husband on the first day and now we've married this many it's like, right, if it's right, it really doesn't matter, and if it's wrong, it doesn't matter anyway, So you might as well have sex and have fun totally.
But by the same token, I think that when you as a woman, if you know yourself well enough to know that, like when you have sex with someone, you get really attached and you start picking out wedding china. There's a lot of hormonal evidence there and like science to back that that that happens. So it's like, okay, if that's your decision, that's also your power, because it's like you know that you'll get too attached or that you'll start reverse box theorying this guy.
If you have sex with him, you know totally, yeah, you know thyself. Seriously, you said that too, and it's so true. It's like, if you are the type of person or if you're already like obsessed with them and you're already like, oh my god, they're so perfect, like and you're not sure where they stand, then okay, maybe don't if you know that's gonna upset you. If you sleep with them or whatever, like abs fucking lutely yes.
But let's just quick little dating tips that I just need to know because I've been out of the dating scene for a minute now and I just there's some things that I'm like, has this changed? So, first of all, because this whole concept of people rejecting you formally is foreign to me. Right, I came up in the ghosting days of your you know.
And people are still ghosting. But I believe in the anti ghost text and you believe in NANTA.
Okay, so I'm not Yes, I've never received or sent one, so I'm new to this and I'm like wondering, where is the line? So is it like after four dates you deserve that text? When is it acceptable? Because sometimes it's weird if like you went on one date and they're like, oh I don't see a future with us, You're like, bro.
Relax right totally. I think like if it's in the early stages and if if you go on one or two dates with them, and but no, because if you go on one or two dates with them and then they like reach out and they're like, hey, do you want to like get dinner this weekend? I think it's fine to just be like totally honest, I didn't feel a vibe. I think you're awesome. I just wanted to be real with you. And it's like that's so much easier than either going on the date and then just like acting like a bitch or ghosting. I just think it's like it's good dating karma. And I know people find it a little clunky and people are like, oh my god, I would like literally never say that, And I'm like, why, like be the change that you want to see? And does it sting to receive one of those texts? For sure? But it stings for about two hours versus is sometimes weeks on end of being like what the fuck happened to them? I wonder if they're gonna text and all your friends being like, no, he's gonna text, and you're like, three weeks later, you're like, he hasn't. So would you rather sting for two hours or wonder for three weeks?
No. I totally understand it in theory and I respect the concept, but I'm gonna be very candid when I tell you that my avoidant ass could never I could never handle receiving that text nor writing it. But I love this concept you talked about in the book about dating apps, which is the importance of taking your conversation off the apps. Can you explain that.
There is such a thing of pen pals now where people will match on an app and they'll talk. People will write me and they'll be like, Hey, Tank's been talking to this guy for five months, and I'm just wondering if you think that we're gonna hang out soon. And I'm like, five months you've been talking to this person, Like that's insane. You're not like a You're not an AI chat boy until he asks you on a date. I just don't care, Like I I'm sorry, Like, and you shouldn't either, because you have to be with in real life as someone to know how how they laugh.
He could be a gremlin living under a bridge, like the Granpriol troll, you know what I mean, Like who you how do you know who's on the other He could be an orangutang.
You know how they laugh, how they smile, how they order food, how they how they speak, how they speak to waiters, like all of these things. So I'm just like, like, I get it. Apps are a great tool to meet people, but get it, off, be like hey, hey, what's up. Oh good weekend? Yeah, sure, I'm cool. I'm down to meat drinks Thursday. Great, do it because totally otherwise you're just wasting time.
Now one hundred percent. What is your red flag? Like if you had to say one thing, one sentence a guy could say on a date with you. It doesn't have to be for everyone. What would it be? I have two?
For me? It's like if they don't ask questions, like if it's just kind of like a back and forth, you know, and they're if they're not asking questions and like listening to the answers, which sounds so like bare minimum vibes, but really like the next time if you're single and you go on like an ap date, really look at like if they're asking you questions and they're like listening to your answer. So if they're like, oh, yeah, like tell me about this or that and you're talking, like are they just waiting for you to be done speaking or are they actually absorbing what you're saying, because it's like such a telltale sign of where they're at and who they are as a human beings. What are yours?
What are your totally well, no, I love that because you can totally tell when you're just a prop when someone already knows like their story in mind, it's the worst that mine are. When you talk about kids or something, and if they say, oh, yeah, like you know, I want kids, but I don't want to have daughters, that's a red flag.
Oh my god, major red flag.
I'm like, how do you think men treat women? You know what I mean?
It's like just like how you treat women and like that you think about women like that's oh my god, that's like glaring red flag.
That's glaring to me.
Yeah.
Also the phrase just a dog, and I'm sure it crosses over to just a cat. That to me, like, that's not for me. If they say like, oh, it's just a dog, like if you know, if I can't leave it at home or something, or if I'm just talking about talk or something, No, it's just a dog is not for me. I'm like, I feel like you burned ants with a magnifying glass as a child, you know.
Yeah, that's creepy vibes. That's like I'm like, you're a sociopath if you say that. That's not not good.
Not good. Okay, So speaking of shifting, let's shift to a more serious topic, but something that I really want to talk to you about, which is being a public persona not for the faint of heart at all, being an internet personality coming up in a time that cancelations and it just feels like the internet is on fire. Enter at your own risk, but like it's also it can be a very rewarding place but also the darkest and scariest place to be. So, first of all, have there ever been any times because like you and I talk for a living, you know which is and I always say a fish gets caught by its mouth. So it's a very injurious career to have because it's like inevitably when you're also when your content is your life experience. Has there ever been something that you said online or on your podcast that has really bitten you in the ass or ruined a relationship?
Yeah, totally. I mean I talk about it in the book. But last year I had I have a really interesting a group of people online who are dedicated to my downfall, and they went through my Twitter over ten years of tweets. They went through and they found like six or seven that weren't great. They weren't great. I am not proud of the things that I said, but I was ten twenty one, you know, over ten years ago. I was just like I hated myself as a person. I don't stand by those nasty things I said, but like I said them when I had a closed Twitter account and I had seven followers, all of who were my friends, but like they was there. It was there. They looked in the hard enough and it was there. And it was, you know, a really really tough experience, and I learned a lot about the way the internet works. And I apologized. I said, you know, this isn't who I am, but it also felt like dang, like you know it. Sometimes it just didn't feel fair, Like I was like, you know it, it was a tweet and wasn't nice. But I don't know that I should get death threats because of that, you know. And but that's like how the internet works, Like it's not an eye for an eye. It's like sometimes people are just ready to they love the rise, they love the fall, and that's kind of how it goes. And it was definitely a really really wild experience to be on the other side of it when I'd seen so many people go through it, and I was like, oh, look, that person's being torn to shreds this week. That must suck, you know, but feels different when you're inside. But you know, like I said, it was a learning experience and all you can do is say sorry and move on, like all you can do. And and my real followers know that, you know, I wasn't even necessarily hiding that, Like I've spoken about that before, about how I think when you hate yourself, you think you think being mean is funny, and like how I don't really comment on celebrities anymore because it's just doesn't seem fair, and just like I don't know, I've spoken about all that before, So my real followers were like, things, we know you've changed. I always say, like, if you're not cringing at yourself a year ago, you're not growing fast enough. And I like more than cringe when I read that stuff. But I think we would be hard pressed to find any millennial who's spent over ten years on the Internet who hasn't said some questionable stuff like you know.
You're talking about like the cancelation essentially that you went through. And while we are talking about this, I think it's really important to note that there is a larger conversation to be had about the morality of these tweets and what happened. But what I want to focus more on with you today is actually what it's I felt like to go through it from a first hand perspective, right or wrong. Love that you said that we watch it all the time, but it's a totally different thing to be in it. And I just want to sit in that for a second because I watched you go through it, right, and you almost forget that it's a real person. You forget you know, you're analyzing everything you're watching like it's watching a car accident. It's the most it's the weirdest. It's almost like voyeuristic. It's like you're just like looking in on someone's downfall essentially. And I just wonder, like, from day one, what was the decision? I noticed mostly that you didn't disappear, Yeah, and I know that had to have been a conscious decision where there are people telling you to like go under the radar for a little while, or there people like that were like, oh that's what they want from you. What was that like?
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of different schools of thought of how to deal with it. And some people were like delete everything, like go live in a cave for three months.
And I was that was probably tempting.
Yeah, I was. I was like, honestly, book me a cave because I'm ready. I can't go on the internet. I'm very scared. And you know, in the moment, I think I was made to feel like I had murdered several people, like that's what the response felt like. But then deep down inside me and like a lot of my I really attribute it to a lot of my amazing community. They were like thanks, you sent a tweet when you were twenty one, Like you didn't hurt anybody, Like you didn't. This isn't that bad, Like you've got it. We've got to regain We've got to hold some relativity here. And I was like, yeah, and it's kind of like if you if you go away, if you hide for three if I if I am to hide for three months, because I wrote a tweet when I was over ten years ago. That was when I had a private Twitter. I didn't tag anybody. You know, no one was harmed, there's no violence, you know, what have you?
Then?
Like is that the scale? Like is that the and I that's a punt. Does a punishment fit that crime? And I was just like, I can't, I honestly can't disappear for my followers either either like most of the people who have been with me or staying with me. It wasn't It wasn't like everybody in my community turned on me. It was like the people like I feel like there's always with any following, there's always like that ten percent where they're just like they're kind of just hanging on. They don't know if they love you or hate you, but they're following along for the ride. Like my community stuck with me in the most amazing way. They believe in change, they believe in growth, they believe in me and who I am. And I was like, I can't leave them for this, Like what am I?
Then?
That wouldn't be me Like walking the walk I've talked this talk about change and about you know, standing up after you fall down and now it's time for me to live that.
Did you reach out to any Stacy Schroeder or anyone that like had gone through it?
You know, I'll say this, almost every single more famous person than me who I know personally reached out to me, and you know, a lot of them were so fantastic, and just a lot of people, new friends and old and old like reached out. People on the internet who have been through similar things reached out and told me their experience, and I like hold them so close to my heart. And some people that I hadn't even met yet, but just some people who are in the public guy, who have gone through similar things. They reached out. They gave me books to help me, they talked to me on the phone, and it was like the kindness of those people, Like this is where I tear up because I just I they don't know how much they mean to me. And I promised them like if I see it happening, I'm going to pass it on again. And I have and I will continue to. But that kindness, it just means the world. Because to bring it full circle to our conversation, when someone reaches out, you know and says, I've actually been through this too, like I've actually gone through a time where I'm getting death threats and what have you, and this is how I got through it. Mentally, that was like incredible. It was that and then it was my incredible, incredible community that they just they got me through because I was like a shell of myself for a long time.
How long would you say that period? And I'm sure you're still rebounding in certain ways, Like how long was the like dark dark dark?
I was really really bad for like two and a half months, Like I was really people coming to my house every day to check on me, like I couldn't. I was just it was just a really hard time. But again, my incredible friends, my family, my community, and the and the kindness of strangers just was like amazing. And and I believe like everything happens for you, not to you. And so now like a year on, I can honestly say that I'm grateful for the experience, not only because it you know, showed me, like it allowed me the grace to fail in public in this big way and and to move on and and you know, just hopefully be a learning experience for others, but it also brought me so much closer to my community, to my friends, and honestly just kind of made me a better person overall. Like I really did change and I'm grateful for that.
Yeah, And I'm sure it's like that's kind of the good and bad part of it is that. I'm sure it was so eye opening and some of those things, I'm sure you're like I could have gone my whole life without seeing that or seeing that potential or capability in some people, because like the first day, you know, like you're us losing brand deals, like there are things like photo shoots are canceled, like things like that. I'm sure that was shocking that it even like had the ripple effect down to like things that were already scheduled and planned. But then it's like, did you lose people in your life?
Yeah? I did. I mean I think like, like you're from La, you know how this town is. I think when I was coming up, I gained a lot of fake friends. Yea, like people and I talk about this in the book, but it's like it's easy to be to want to be someone's friends when they're blowing up on TikTok, they're inviting you on free trips, they're you know, paying for you in some cases and getting you free stuff and all this you know, good, all that jazz, and then you know, when the times get tough, then you're just like, okay, well I'm out. And that's a lot of how this town is that's a lot of how entertainment and show business, and that's not everybody, of course, but yeah, I lost a few hangers on and and again I was like, Okay, well that's a silver lining because if if this is what it takes, like I can't invite you to a party this week, so you're not going to be my friend, then you are never my friend to begin with. And that's okay, right.
Feeling that like sort of public rejection or feeling like a pariah for someone that has anxiety and depression, just speaking as someone that has that, Holy fuck, I cannot medicated. Let me tell you, I would be like no, I'd be like I need like a labia, Like I would truly need to be on morphine, a morphine drip, like I just don't know that is every single one of your triggers. It's like the skin being peeled off your body and just your nerves being fully exposed, Like I just can't imagine.
It was extreme. But again, I learned a lot and I'm out of it, and now that's my new marker where I'm like, if I can go through that, like, I can go through a lot more. And everything happens for a reason, and I do. I'm glad that I learned from it and hope others can learn from it too, And I hope just I hope they learn more than just like delete your Twitter. They learn like deeper stuff as well.
Right, No, Like I was talking to I think it was La La Kent, and we were talking about just kind of getting intoxicated with when you're on the come up, right, when like everyone's rooting for you and everyone wants you to win, and they feel some like ownership of you, and it's just like kind of this like delusional euphoric fame, you know, and that's why people love it. And then you get your first peek into like the dark side or the side like when they turn against you and you realize how while you love these followers or fans or whatever, that that's not where you can hold all your real estate of like your worth and everything. You learn it's a mental shift, No pun intended that it's like this whole thing where you have to start being like, oh, this could go away at any moment. Was that part of it for you?
Totally? And it's like you spoke about eggs in that basket, and it's like I every day thank God for my community, and I love them so much, but at the end of the day, I can't rely on them liking me to make me happy. And it's and it's like you kind of have to be like impervious to the good and the bad. You have to I think, if you want longevity in the public eye, you have to kind of get to a point where you're like, I'm doing this because I want to create this work or put this out there, and if someone says, oh my god, you're amazing, you can't absorb it any more than someone being like you're the worst person on earth, because it's like that's you can't rely on those outside things to like boost you up or or let them tear you down, because if you let them boost you up, then you also give external factors the power to tear you down. And that's like a big learning that I had from this experience where because it's like, of course it's intox skating when you're starting to get followers, like everybody's blowing smoke up your ass. You're like getting all these brand deals. Everyone wants to be your friend, but it's like, you know, it's all it's all outside validation or whatever, and you have to be happy with yourself. You have to move with intention, you have to create with intention. And again that's like something positive that came out of this experience for me is like I have to know that, like I have to be good with me. I have to know that my heart is pure and that my intention is good with my work, and I put it out there and I hope that it helps people, and I hope that people like it and it makes them laugh. But ultimately, once I release it into the world, it's not about me anymore, and I'm onto the next thing.
So now that you maybe have I don't know if you're more sensitive to internet feedback or less so after what you went through. But we all have our sensitive spots. But what's this topic of hate that just pierces through all your armor? Like that just is your achilles heel? Like what hurts you the most?
I think when people talk about my family, like when people, you know, make mean comments about my mom, right, I mean, I just don't and that it felt like you know, when that happened, I had so much trouble understanding, Like I like wrote a mean tweet when I was a child and that gives you, you know, opportunity to say anything about my mom the most heinous comments or my family, and I'm like, that just is my achilles heel, not only because I love them so much, but because I'm like, they didn't ask for this, like this is me and I just you know, that is so difficult for me to deal with. But my family's amazing and they're just proud of me. So that's tough. But I guess that's the internet for you.
I can imagine. No, that's where I would want to crawl through the computer and just you can't touch family yet end up saying Okay, so now, just as a last thought, you are, as you shared in your book, but I don't know if we want to talk about it that you are in a relationship no longer.
Okay, no longer.
So tell me about That's what I wanted either answer, because I'm like, okay, so, now do you regret putting that at the end of the book or no, I.
Like I wrote it as you know, just a thing like, oh, this is where I'm at right now. And that's the whole point of the shift is like it doesn't matter, Like it doesn't matter if it lasted a week or seven months. It was beautiful that it happened, and you have to be happy for the experience. And just because something ends, it doesn't mean it was a failure. It doesn't mean anything. In fact, I believe it's like, Okay, you're one step closer to finding what's meant for you. And I'm so happy that I put it in there. I'm so happy. It's like it's part of me. It's part of my story. If you believe that life is like a necklace and you're always putting new beads or experiences on it, it's like it's a beat on my necklace and that's beautiful. It's like it's part of me.
So no, I love that you say that, because there are so many times that I have an episode where I say something emphatically that I don't feel anymore, and I'm like, oh, I'd like torture myself over it, But like that's being a human being. It's like saying things and then not believing them, or like falling in love and falling out of love, and it's it's I love that you said that because it's so true, and I'm sure you feel in some capacity that makes you relate more to your followers or the readers even but I'm sure it's scary even when you get into a relationship. Are you ever scared that your followers feel abandoned because if you're single followers?
Yeah, I mean sometimes I think I am always just sharing where I'm at, and I'll always be relating to a different group of people. But it's like it doesn't matter because it's just it's where you are right now. It's not what defines you. It's just what you're where you're at. And I'm always trying to be honest with them, and and I don't I don't ever leave them. I'm like, even when I'm in a relationship, I'm still like, I'm like, you guys are my number one.
Yes, Well that's it for us. Thank you so so much.
You're amazing, You're so fantastic. Thank you so much for all of your thoughtful questions. That was an amazing conversation. It's been a while since I've had a really great talk. And we speak so the same language, So thank you, thank you. No, this was let's hang out please, Yes, I would love that. I would love love love Thank you guys. Bye.
