Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production of iHeart Podcasts and Kaleidoscope. I'm mas Valoshan and today Karra Price and I will bring you the headlines this week, including the race of the humanoid robots. Then on tech Support, we'll talk to Jeff Rosenthal about the role of private investment in building out energy infrastructure in the US to meet the AI boom.

Welcome to Tech Stuff, a production of iHeart Podcasts and Kaleidoscope. I'm mas Valoshan and today Karra Price and I will bring you the headlines this week, including the race of the humanoid robots. Then on tech Support, we'll talk to Jeff Rosenthal about the role of private investment in building out energy infrastructure in the US to meet the AI boom.

I would argue that this is one of the spaces that you just see the future manifest regularly, like the impossible become passible.

I would argue that this is one of the spaces that you just see the future manifest regularly, like the impossible become passible.

All of that. On the weekend Tech It's Friday, April twenty fifth. Hello, Hello Cara.

All of that. On the weekend Tech It's Friday, April twenty fifth. Hello, Hello Cara.

Hi as well.

Hi as well.

Since we last saw each other, A big important holiday happened, which was Easter. And did you see how it celebrated at the White.

Since we last saw each other, A big important holiday happened, which was Easter. And did you see how it celebrated at the White.

I did, And I can't say that I know many people who still roll eggs around with wooden spoons, but the White House likes its traditions.

I did, And I can't say that I know many people who still roll eggs around with wooden spoons, but the White House likes its traditions.

Yeah. There was also the human sized bunny who ended up next to President Trump on the podium, who.

Yeah. There was also the human sized bunny who ended up next to President Trump on the podium, who.

Looked a lot like Peter Rabbit, but suspiciously with a different colored jacket.

Looked a lot like Peter Rabbit, but suspiciously with a different colored jacket.

This was, in fact Peter the Rabbit, who's been subtly renamed and restyled face exactly. He has not to infringe on Beatrix Potter's copyright. This wasn't the only slightly weird sight to behold at the celebration. There were also sponsorships and branding from the big tech companies. Meta had its own tent on the White House lawn, complete with an AI powered photo op. YouTube had a bunny hop stage, and a reading nook was provided by Amazon, complete with a couch and some colorful flowers with the Amazon logo in pride of place. This was all on the lawn of the White House at an event traditionally sponsored by American egg Board.

This was, in fact Peter the Rabbit, who's been subtly renamed and restyled face exactly. He has not to infringe on Beatrix Potter's copyright. This wasn't the only slightly weird sight to behold at the celebration. There were also sponsorships and branding from the big tech companies. Meta had its own tent on the White House lawn, complete with an AI powered photo op. YouTube had a bunny hop stage, and a reading nook was provided by Amazon, complete with a couch and some colorful flowers with the Amazon logo in pride of place. This was all on the lawn of the White House at an event traditionally sponsored by American egg Board.

I should have done this for my butt, mitzpah. Actually, just have different tech companies cover different tables.

I should have done this for my butt, mitzpah. Actually, just have different tech companies cover different tables.

Well, future bamans for readers of the Arch of the Deal will no doubt be able to defray the costs in years to come.

Well, future bamans for readers of the Arch of the Deal will no doubt be able to defray the costs in years to come.

Absolutely, you know, nothing says easter to mean quite like a pink and blue sign with the words expand your World with Meta AI on it, which is just so funny to me because Meta execs past and present are literally testifying right down the street as this is going on.

Absolutely, you know, nothing says easter to mean quite like a pink and blue sign with the words expand your World with Meta AI on it, which is just so funny to me because Meta execs past and present are literally testifying right down the street as this is going on.

I know, I mean, it's surely incredible. What's what's going on Washington right now? On the one hand, you have Easter at the White House with all of these corporate sponsors from the tech industry, and on the other hand, you have the government's lawyers arguing to break up Google Meta on trial. It's this, you know, rather delicious seeming irony that you can't buy friendship, at least not from President Trump.

I know, I mean, it's surely incredible. What's what's going on Washington right now? On the one hand, you have Easter at the White House with all of these corporate sponsors from the tech industry, and on the other hand, you have the government's lawyers arguing to break up Google Meta on trial. It's this, you know, rather delicious seeming irony that you can't buy friendship, at least not from President Trump.

But you can buy a couch at an Easter party exactly, You know what I mean? You know, it does make me wonder where this trend will go. I can sort of imagine a huge tent around Thanksgiving saying the annual pardoning of the Thanksgiving Turkey sponsored by TikTok.

But you can buy a couch at an Easter party exactly, You know what I mean? You know, it does make me wonder where this trend will go. I can sort of imagine a huge tent around Thanksgiving saying the annual pardoning of the Thanksgiving Turkey sponsored by TikTok.

Speaking of strange and slightly jarring tech encroachment, I've got a headline to start us off. The Wall Street Journal reports that a recent half marathon race in Beijing had some unusual participants humanoid robots. This thirteen mile race featured thousands of humans and twenty one robots running. There's a chance for China to show off its progress in humanoid robotics. You can check out the video online. It's pretty deep in the Young Canny Valley to see robots jogging alongside humans.

Speaking of strange and slightly jarring tech encroachment, I've got a headline to start us off. The Wall Street Journal reports that a recent half marathon race in Beijing had some unusual participants humanoid robots. This thirteen mile race featured thousands of humans and twenty one robots running. There's a chance for China to show off its progress in humanoid robotics. You can check out the video online. It's pretty deep in the Young Canny Valley to see robots jogging alongside humans.

This is my favorite kind of story, I think because of the uncanny valleyness of it, and also because there was It wasn't perfect, let's just put it that way.

This is my favorite kind of story, I think because of the uncanny valleyness of it, and also because there was It wasn't perfect, let's just put it that way.

We'll get to some of the winners and losers.

We'll get to some of the winners and losers.

We'll talk about that. But you know, China is really leaning into humanoid robotics. They've said they want to be the leader by twenty twenty seven, which I don't know about you, but that's close to when I turned forty, not far away.

We'll talk about that. But you know, China is really leaning into humanoid robotics. They've said they want to be the leader by twenty twenty seven, which I don't know about you, but that's close to when I turned forty, not far away.

As you mentioned, the race did show this still quite a lot room for improvement when it comes to these humanoids. They had to have a staggered start to the race, literally so they wouldn't run into each other. There were pauses between the robots starting. They were also in their own lane, the HOV lane of the half marathon in Beijing.

As you mentioned, the race did show this still quite a lot room for improvement when it comes to these humanoids. They had to have a staggered start to the race, literally so they wouldn't run into each other. There were pauses between the robots starting. They were also in their own lane, the HOV lane of the half marathon in Beijing.

There's so much about this that I love. But my favorite part is that some of these robots were wearing accessories. You know, some had like running shoes, tank tops, you know, they have those little like bicycle hat and to me, they all kind of look like guys in Fort Green who are trying to like bag women on hinge.

There's so much about this that I love. But my favorite part is that some of these robots were wearing accessories. You know, some had like running shoes, tank tops, you know, they have those little like bicycle hat and to me, they all kind of look like guys in Fort Green who are trying to like bag women on hinge.

Those weren't the only upgrades to the robots. They went beyond low ups In some cases, the developers had to modify the robots for the race so that plastic components wouldn't break off while they were running, and actually recast and replace those parts with metal. They also given longer legs, something I would love to.

Those weren't the only upgrades to the robots. They went beyond low ups In some cases, the developers had to modify the robots for the race so that plastic components wouldn't break off while they were running, and actually recast and replace those parts with metal. They also given longer legs, something I would love to.

Have, which you know, to me, this is a sign that humans are still superior. These robots trained for months so they could navigate both the flat and hilly parts of the course and also take six left turns and eight right turns, something fortunately I still don't have to practice for.

Have, which you know, to me, this is a sign that humans are still superior. These robots trained for months so they could navigate both the flat and hilly parts of the course and also take six left turns and eight right turns, something fortunately I still don't have to practice for.

And I think the majority of these robots were actually remote controlled. But a big issue was stamina. That doesn't mean they need to take water, break or catch their breath like we do, but these robots are breat on batteries which need to be recharged every two hours, and the race was what over three hours long, so at different points in the race, the robots were stopped because they ran out of power and had to swap batteries in order to keep going, which.

And I think the majority of these robots were actually remote controlled. But a big issue was stamina. That doesn't mean they need to take water, break or catch their breath like we do, but these robots are breat on batteries which need to be recharged every two hours, and the race was what over three hours long, so at different points in the race, the robots were stopped because they ran out of power and had to swap batteries in order to keep going, which.

Is just like a pit stop at a NASCAR race. Let me just clarify when you say a group of humanoid robots. Listeners might think this is a robot army, you know, it's like very Star Wars, where they all look the same and run at an identical pace. But that was not what happened here. It was a melee.

Is just like a pit stop at a NASCAR race. Let me just clarify when you say a group of humanoid robots. Listeners might think this is a robot army, you know, it's like very Star Wars, where they all look the same and run at an identical pace. But that was not what happened here. It was a melee.

Have you seen Have you seen when dog walkers are in Central Park and you have every type of dog from big to small, from crazy to calm.

Have you seen Have you seen when dog walkers are in Central Park and you have every type of dog from big to small, from crazy to calm.

That's how we lose people.

That's how we lose people.

That this was that of robots. It was a melee of different shape, different size, different herky jerky robots. I think in some sense, you know, there was a competition amongst the robot manufacturers. Some fared better than others on one and you have the front runner, Chian Kung Ultra, who stood at five foot nine and only fell over once when it's battery failed. It did change his battery three times, but Tien ran at about six miles an hour across different terrains including hills, stairs, grass and sand. Others weren't so lucky. One humanoid with propellers went off course, slammed into a fence and broke into pieces. It sounds comedic, it was actually kind of scary. Things. Two hundred pound metallic humanoid charge its way into a crowd of people, how to tell you, some were barely able to walk, much less run. One humanoid robot named Juan Juan actually went in the wrong direction for a little bit before sitting down and refusing to go further, which was like me at sports day as a child. Yes, in you two.

That this was that of robots. It was a melee of different shape, different size, different herky jerky robots. I think in some sense, you know, there was a competition amongst the robot manufacturers. Some fared better than others on one and you have the front runner, Chian Kung Ultra, who stood at five foot nine and only fell over once when it's battery failed. It did change his battery three times, but Tien ran at about six miles an hour across different terrains including hills, stairs, grass and sand. Others weren't so lucky. One humanoid with propellers went off course, slammed into a fence and broke into pieces. It sounds comedic, it was actually kind of scary. Things. Two hundred pound metallic humanoid charge its way into a crowd of people, how to tell you, some were barely able to walk, much less run. One humanoid robot named Juan Juan actually went in the wrong direction for a little bit before sitting down and refusing to go further, which was like me at sports day as a child. Yes, in you two.

I think I was going to say we are all.

I think I was going to say we are all.

One on this podcast where we are one.

One on this podcast where we are one.

Sure, it's very relatable.

Sure, it's very relatable.

And while Tian Kung Ultra was the first humanoid to cross the finish line after about two hours and forty minutes, a human runner finished the race over an hour and a half before that, So only two humanoids cross the finish line within the race's original cutoff time, which cut extended to four hours and ten minutes because most of them just simply weren't going to make it. If I was running a marathon, this would also happen.

And while Tian Kung Ultra was the first humanoid to cross the finish line after about two hours and forty minutes, a human runner finished the race over an hour and a half before that, So only two humanoids cross the finish line within the race's original cutoff time, which cut extended to four hours and ten minutes because most of them just simply weren't going to make it. If I was running a marathon, this would also happen.

By the way, it's funny to laugh at the missteps of these robots. But remember how when we were first playing around with Gennety of Ai. You know, it was impressive that it could write anything at all, but the writing was completely unserviceable. So, you know, I think that we're seeing what we may be seeing here as a kind of leading edge of in fact and explosion in humanoid robots because these robots are intertwined deeply with the development of AI. Robots have different parts, but you could say that the brain is the AI which allows the robots to learn from patterns and mimic human behavior in real time. And according to analysts at Goldman Sachs, Deep seeks are one model may have changed the game for Chinese robotic companies because now top level AI performance is possible with fewer advanced ships and less computing power, which makes it easier to distribute across a society.

By the way, it's funny to laugh at the missteps of these robots. But remember how when we were first playing around with Gennety of Ai. You know, it was impressive that it could write anything at all, but the writing was completely unserviceable. So, you know, I think that we're seeing what we may be seeing here as a kind of leading edge of in fact and explosion in humanoid robots because these robots are intertwined deeply with the development of AI. Robots have different parts, but you could say that the brain is the AI which allows the robots to learn from patterns and mimic human behavior in real time. And according to analysts at Goldman Sachs, Deep seeks are one model may have changed the game for Chinese robotic companies because now top level AI performance is possible with fewer advanced ships and less computing power, which makes it easier to distribute across a society.

So is it safe to say that this race was less between humans and robots, which it clearly was not, and more between the US and China.

So is it safe to say that this race was less between humans and robots, which it clearly was not, and more between the US and China.

Well, Cara, that's why they pay the big bugs. I agree. I agree. There is a strong national pride element to the Chinese robotics sector and seemingly a desire to integrate robots into more and more human activities such as this marathon. There's also some interesting robot human dance self videos that you can find online.

Well, Cara, that's why they pay the big bugs. I agree. I agree. There is a strong national pride element to the Chinese robotics sector and seemingly a desire to integrate robots into more and more human activities such as this marathon. There's also some interesting robot human dance self videos that you can find online.

I've seen them.

I've seen them.

They're well worth checking out. Moving on to another story that could be straight out of a sci fi novel, but unfortunately is not in partnership with Wired magazine. Four or four Media reported on a tool that some police departments near the Southern border are paying quite a bit of money to use. The product is called Overwatch, as in the shoot them Up video game, naturally, and it comes from a company called Massive Blue.

They're well worth checking out. Moving on to another story that could be straight out of a sci fi novel, but unfortunately is not in partnership with Wired magazine. Four or four Media reported on a tool that some police departments near the Southern border are paying quite a bit of money to use. The product is called Overwatch, as in the shoot them Up video game, naturally, and it comes from a company called Massive Blue.

Only boys can name this.

Only boys can name this.

I'm sorry, I'm not saying women can't, but it sounds like something that only boys can name.

I'm sorry, I'm not saying women can't, but it sounds like something that only boys can name.

I'm with you on this, not unfortunately. Overwatch is marketed as a product that quote deploys lifelike virtual agents which infiltrate and engage criminal networks across various channels. Basically, Massive Blue is offering cops virtual personas that can be unleashed on the Internet and used to interact with quote college protesters, quote, radicalized political activists, and suspected drug and human traffickers over text messages and social media.

I'm with you on this, not unfortunately. Overwatch is marketed as a product that quote deploys lifelike virtual agents which infiltrate and engage criminal networks across various channels. Basically, Massive Blue is offering cops virtual personas that can be unleashed on the Internet and used to interact with quote college protesters, quote, radicalized political activists, and suspected drug and human traffickers over text messages and social media.

And one such example of an Overwatch AI persona is Heidi, and Massive Blue described her in a presentation to the Texas Department of Public Safety as quote a radicalized AI persona. Here's her backstory? You ready, yeah, ready, Oh my god, it's me. She's a thirty six year old, Oh my god, childless, divorced woman who lives in Texas. But this is when she got radicalized. She was raised in San Francisco.

And one such example of an Overwatch AI persona is Heidi, and Massive Blue described her in a presentation to the Texas Department of Public Safety as quote a radicalized AI persona. Here's her backstory? You ready, yeah, ready, Oh my god, it's me. She's a thirty six year old, Oh my god, childless, divorced woman who lives in Texas. But this is when she got radicalized. She was raised in San Francisco.

Oh my god.

Oh my god.

Her hobbies are activism and baking, and her personality is quote outspoken, lonely, and body positive. This is the greatest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

Her hobbies are activism and baking, and her personality is quote outspoken, lonely, and body positive. This is the greatest thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

This is summoned from the nightmares of JD events.

This is summoned from the nightmares of JD events.

Literally, like the these are the threats to American society. A body positive child woman.

Literally, like the these are the threats to American society. A body positive child woman.

Body positive, lonely, outspits.

Body positive, lonely, outspits.

By the way, she's going to get five thousand if Heidi keeps up with this body positive, childless behavior. The Trump administration might give her five thousand dollars to have a child.

By the way, she's going to get five thousand if Heidi keeps up with this body positive, childless behavior. The Trump administration might give her five thousand dollars to have a child.

So maybe the unintended consequence of a legion of Heidi's roaming the internet will be bankrupting the American American government taking advantage of the credits to have children exactly. This is obviously a truly weird story, but the purpose of personas like Heidi is to interact with and of course, perhaps we might say in trap real suspects on social media. The idea is by looking to these potential suspects, Heidi and other AI personas can gather evidence on them to be used by police departments. Sorry, I shouldn't be lovey. I mean it's bizarre.

So maybe the unintended consequence of a legion of Heidi's roaming the internet will be bankrupting the American American government taking advantage of the credits to have children exactly. This is obviously a truly weird story, but the purpose of personas like Heidi is to interact with and of course, perhaps we might say in trap real suspects on social media. The idea is by looking to these potential suspects, Heidi and other AI personas can gather evidence on them to be used by police departments. Sorry, I shouldn't be lovey. I mean it's bizarre.

It's the most bizarre thing. Also that like these are the threats to American civilization. Like to your point, like an AI cat, we don't even know if she has a cat, because her cat could be a bigger threat. But that she's outspoken and body positive is what's so crazy to me. I do need to point out that it is legal to protest in the United States, so it's a bit odd that one of the types of AI personas is a college protester. But the idea of law enforcement using fake personas to catch suspects isn't new. Officers have made profiles claiming to be teenagers to gather information on child predators.

It's the most bizarre thing. Also that like these are the threats to American civilization. Like to your point, like an AI cat, we don't even know if she has a cat, because her cat could be a bigger threat. But that she's outspoken and body positive is what's so crazy to me. I do need to point out that it is legal to protest in the United States, so it's a bit odd that one of the types of AI personas is a college protester. But the idea of law enforcement using fake personas to catch suspects isn't new. Officers have made profiles claiming to be teenagers to gather information on child predators.

Now, this is like if you turned to catch your predator into an AI and then turned that AI into a product and then sold it to police departments.

Now, this is like if you turned to catch your predator into an AI and then turned that AI into a product and then sold it to police departments.

That's exactly that's exactly right.

That's exactly that's exactly right.

Using this software instead of having to log on and make a fake profile message of suspect back and forth and hope they don't catch on to what you're doing, Overwatch does a lot of that work for you so. Another of watched profile the police departments can use is child trafficking AI persona, also known as Jason. Jason is fourteen years old, likes video games, and has a hard time interacting with girls.

Using this software instead of having to log on and make a fake profile message of suspect back and forth and hope they don't catch on to what you're doing, Overwatch does a lot of that work for you so. Another of watched profile the police departments can use is child trafficking AI persona, also known as Jason. Jason is fourteen years old, likes video games, and has a hard time interacting with girls.

He's an insult or just a normal.

He's an insult or just a normal.

Fourteen year old boy. To be fair to him, I wasn't such a big video gamer, but I certainly had those other two characteristics. In the presentation obtained by four or for Media, there is a screenshot of a sample text exchange between Jason and someone who is presumably a predatory adult, asking these alone, Jason replies to the message, quote, just chillin by myself. Man. My mom's at at Symbol work and my dad's out of town, so it's just me and my VID games video game controller emoji.

Fourteen year old boy. To be fair to him, I wasn't such a big video gamer, but I certainly had those other two characteristics. In the presentation obtained by four or for Media, there is a screenshot of a sample text exchange between Jason and someone who is presumably a predatory adult, asking these alone, Jason replies to the message, quote, just chillin by myself. Man. My mom's at at Symbol work and my dad's out of town, so it's just me and my VID games video game controller emoji.

I would have already been under a dictionary. I wouldn't even be able to talk to this. You know, we're not clear if this is a real exchange. We do know that Massive Blues signed a three hundred and six d thousand dollars contract with Panal County in Arizona, and the county use an anti human trafficking grant to pay for this exchange. The Panal County Sheriff's office did tell four A four media that Overwatch has so far not been used for any arrests.

I would have already been under a dictionary. I wouldn't even be able to talk to this. You know, we're not clear if this is a real exchange. We do know that Massive Blues signed a three hundred and six d thousand dollars contract with Panal County in Arizona, and the county use an anti human trafficking grant to pay for this exchange. The Panal County Sheriff's office did tell four A four media that Overwatch has so far not been used for any arrests.

It is used for a lot of laughs.

It is used for a lot of laughs.

Yeah, I'm curious if the fact it hasn't been used for any arrests it's considered to be a good thing or a bad thing.

Yeah, I'm curious if the fact it hasn't been used for any arrests it's considered to be a good thing or a bad thing.

That's what I was going to say. Yeah, exactly.

That's what I was going to say. Yeah, exactly.

So, Karen, while we're on the topic of what kind of information can we gathered about people online, You've got a headline for us about removing yourself from the Internet.

So, Karen, while we're on the topic of what kind of information can we gathered about people online, You've got a headline for us about removing yourself from the Internet.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So the Wall Street Journal ran an article with the headline, go delete yourself from the Internet, and it talks about how Google recently updated its results about You feature and you can plug in details like your name, various email addresses, phone numbers, or street addresses, and Google will literally show you what kind of things about you or out there on the internet.

So the Wall Street Journal ran an article with the headline, go delete yourself from the Internet, and it talks about how Google recently updated its results about You feature and you can plug in details like your name, various email addresses, phone numbers, or street addresses, and Google will literally show you what kind of things about you or out there on the internet.

Yeah. I looked at this and I was like, him is basically asking me for all of my personal data to run a search on what personal data exists on the Internet. So, of course I I did it anyway, And indeed, I think this is this is less about a kind of cursory Google search and more of them doing like a deep web search to reveal what exists about you online? Is that true?

Yeah. I looked at this and I was like, him is basically asking me for all of my personal data to run a search on what personal data exists on the Internet. So, of course I I did it anyway, And indeed, I think this is this is less about a kind of cursory Google search and more of them doing like a deep web search to reveal what exists about you online? Is that true?

Yes, it's things like where you live, if you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, magazine subscriptions, which is very risky for me. And these little bits of data can add up to a pretty substantial amount of information about you that's just floating around. You know, it can expose you to annoyances like getting more junk mail or scarier situations like identity theft or doxing or receiving unwonted flowers.

Yes, it's things like where you live, if you've ever gotten a speeding ticket, magazine subscriptions, which is very risky for me. And these little bits of data can add up to a pretty substantial amount of information about you that's just floating around. You know, it can expose you to annoyances like getting more junk mail or scarier situations like identity theft or doxing or receiving unwonted flowers.

Has that ever happened to you? I can't talk about it and not to mention. Data brokers scrape this stuff, package it and then sell it on as a dossier. We're talking about very personal stuff here, like license plate numbers of your vehicles, list of your family members, and the dossiers are getting more and more detailed as time goes on and more data becomes available. Yes.

Has that ever happened to you? I can't talk about it and not to mention. Data brokers scrape this stuff, package it and then sell it on as a dossier. We're talking about very personal stuff here, like license plate numbers of your vehicles, list of your family members, and the dossiers are getting more and more detailed as time goes on and more data becomes available. Yes.

So just to be clear, like Google's results about you only provides information, there's a separate request process for removing things from search results, and there are are also other services you can pay for to proactively remove personal data from the Internet.

So just to be clear, like Google's results about you only provides information, there's a separate request process for removing things from search results, and there are are also other services you can pay for to proactively remove personal data from the Internet.

One thing I can't stop thinking about is that deleting yourself from the Internet is not something you can do once and then it's done forever. I mean, it's like a never ending task.

One thing I can't stop thinking about is that deleting yourself from the Internet is not something you can do once and then it's done forever. I mean, it's like a never ending task.

It is a never ending story, and it's ongoing for a couple of reasons. First, you know, if you don't live in a state with data privacy laws like California that require, for example, people search sites to take down your data upon request, that information might just stay up there. And second, data that's been taken down can reappear. And I think this is an unfortunate part of being in the modern world, is that like your data can just be out there.

It is a never ending story, and it's ongoing for a couple of reasons. First, you know, if you don't live in a state with data privacy laws like California that require, for example, people search sites to take down your data upon request, that information might just stay up there. And second, data that's been taken down can reappear. And I think this is an unfortunate part of being in the modern world, is that like your data can just be out there.

I mean, I feel bad for people who live in states where mugshot databases automatically uploaded to the Internet. I mean, I find that so deeply unfair that you're kind of haunted by your mugshot forever. Even if you know Sheriff's department takes it down subsequently, it will never never leave the Internet. Also, it's one of those things where we know, you know, I know we have to be much more careful with day to privacy, but it's just so hard to actually do it. I mean, it's one of those things where it seems I until something bad happens to you, it's almost impossible to motivate yourself to take more care.

I mean, I feel bad for people who live in states where mugshot databases automatically uploaded to the Internet. I mean, I find that so deeply unfair that you're kind of haunted by your mugshot forever. Even if you know Sheriff's department takes it down subsequently, it will never never leave the Internet. Also, it's one of those things where we know, you know, I know we have to be much more careful with day to privacy, but it's just so hard to actually do it. I mean, it's one of those things where it seems I until something bad happens to you, it's almost impossible to motivate yourself to take more care.

And also, you and I always talk about this, like what is to be gained by giving away my data quite a bit? What is lost by giving away my data quite a bit? But I don't care as much.

And also, you and I always talk about this, like what is to be gained by giving away my data quite a bit? What is lost by giving away my data quite a bit? But I don't care as much.

Yeah, I think there are things you can do at the margins, like make a fake email address or a burner email address for every time you sign up for a site online, have a different password every time you know. Those are steps you can take that will be substantially protective. It's time for a quick break now. When we come back, we'll run through the short headlines and speak with Jeff Rosenthal, co founder of the VC firm SIEV about investing in energy infrastructure. Carrow it back, and it's time to get into the shorties.

Yeah, I think there are things you can do at the margins, like make a fake email address or a burner email address for every time you sign up for a site online, have a different password every time you know. Those are steps you can take that will be substantially protective. It's time for a quick break now. When we come back, we'll run through the short headlines and speak with Jeff Rosenthal, co founder of the VC firm SIEV about investing in energy infrastructure. Carrow it back, and it's time to get into the shorties.

I like that.

I like that.

I'll start with one of my favorite publications, The Aviationist.

I'll start with one of my favorite publications, The Aviationist.

Do you really read that?

Do you really read that?

You read it online? I read it online. They have a story with the headline British Army radio wave weapon cooks multiple drones swarms simultaneously. If you can write headlines like that, you deserve to be anybody's favorite publication.

You read it online? I read it online. They have a story with the headline British Army radio wave weapon cooks multiple drones swarms simultaneously. If you can write headlines like that, you deserve to be anybody's favorite publication.

Peabody, Babe Peabody.

Peabody, Babe Peabody.

So the British Army is testing a new air defense weapon that can simultaneously destroy more than one hundred drones in one deployment. The so called rapid Destroyer we Brits to God with names, damages or disrupts critical electronic components inside drones using just radio waves at high frequencies. This causes the drones to crash or malfunction during flight, and it could actually be a transformative defensive weapon for conflicts like the War in Ukraine. To the UK's Defense Intelligence, Ukraine had to defend against attacks from more than eighteen thousand drones in twenty twenty four.

So the British Army is testing a new air defense weapon that can simultaneously destroy more than one hundred drones in one deployment. The so called rapid Destroyer we Brits to God with names, damages or disrupts critical electronic components inside drones using just radio waves at high frequencies. This causes the drones to crash or malfunction during flight, and it could actually be a transformative defensive weapon for conflicts like the War in Ukraine. To the UK's Defense Intelligence, Ukraine had to defend against attacks from more than eighteen thousand drones in twenty twenty four.

So bad news for members of jen Alpha trying to pose his adults on Instagram. The Verge reports that Meta is taking its AI driven age detection to the next level. If a user claims to be an adult, meaning they lie about their birth year, but then an AI tool finds evidence that they are in fact a teenager, evidence like messages from friends saying happy sixteenth birthday, smoking that's a big smoking gun, Meta will automatically switch that user to a teen account, So watch out who your friends are.

So bad news for members of jen Alpha trying to pose his adults on Instagram. The Verge reports that Meta is taking its AI driven age detection to the next level. If a user claims to be an adult, meaning they lie about their birth year, but then an AI tool finds evidence that they are in fact a teenager, evidence like messages from friends saying happy sixteenth birthday, smoking that's a big smoking gun, Meta will automatically switch that user to a teen account, So watch out who your friends are.

These accounts are more restrictive.

These accounts are more restrictive.

For example, they're private by default and Instagram limits the kind of content teen c.

For example, they're private by default and Instagram limits the kind of content teen c.

Here's one for all the people still ignoring cryptocurrency. The Wall Street Journal has a story under the headline Crypto knocks on the door of a banking world, shut it out, and it reports that some crypto firms plan to apply for bank charters or licenses, allowing them to operate more like traditional lenders that can take deposits and make loans. This comes just a few years after the FTX collapse, when many major banks cut ties with crypto firms. But where a bank license comes striccher regulation. At least for now, all eyes are on the crypto friendly Trump administration to see where the crypto companies will have to play by the same rules in order to get these licenses.

Here's one for all the people still ignoring cryptocurrency. The Wall Street Journal has a story under the headline Crypto knocks on the door of a banking world, shut it out, and it reports that some crypto firms plan to apply for bank charters or licenses, allowing them to operate more like traditional lenders that can take deposits and make loans. This comes just a few years after the FTX collapse, when many major banks cut ties with crypto firms. But where a bank license comes striccher regulation. At least for now, all eyes are on the crypto friendly Trump administration to see where the crypto companies will have to play by the same rules in order to get these licenses.

And lastly, I wanted to highlight a new startup with an unfathomable mission to achieve quote the full automation of all work, so to basically achieve humans having to do no work. This story is from tech Crunch, and the company called Mechanize intends to research the limitations of AI because they believe quote the explosive economic growth likely to result from completely automating labor could generate vast abundance, much higher standards of living, and new goods and services that we can't even imagine today. Unsurprisingly, the announcement has received considerable disdain and backlash on social media, but the company, in its affiliate nonprofit AI research organization, actually has significant backing from industry insiders, and they want you to know that they are hiring humans.

And lastly, I wanted to highlight a new startup with an unfathomable mission to achieve quote the full automation of all work, so to basically achieve humans having to do no work. This story is from tech Crunch, and the company called Mechanize intends to research the limitations of AI because they believe quote the explosive economic growth likely to result from completely automating labor could generate vast abundance, much higher standards of living, and new goods and services that we can't even imagine today. Unsurprisingly, the announcement has received considerable disdain and backlash on social media, but the company, in its affiliate nonprofit AI research organization, actually has significant backing from industry insiders, and they want you to know that they are hiring humans.

Not fully mechanized yet not yet. It is interesting, though, how quickly things which seem like pipe dreams of the tech industry become the bread and butter of our daily lives. I mean, think no further than generative AI chat GPT.

Not fully mechanized yet not yet. It is interesting, though, how quickly things which seem like pipe dreams of the tech industry become the bread and butter of our daily lives. I mean, think no further than generative AI chat GPT.

It's all I can hear about.

It's all I can hear about.

It's all people focus on, and even people who don't know I host a tech podcast are talking to me about it. I'm hearing stories at book club, at my passoversator, in all of my group chats. Everyone wants to tell me ways in which they are using generative AI.

It's all people focus on, and even people who don't know I host a tech podcast are talking to me about it. I'm hearing stories at book club, at my passoversator, in all of my group chats. Everyone wants to tell me ways in which they are using generative AI.

Have there been any particularly striking usages that kind of stuck with you?

Have there been any particularly striking usages that kind of stuck with you?

I actually was able to do a palm reading on my mother. I'm sorry, mom for giving chat GPT your palm. We're gonna have to look into that on Google.

I actually was able to do a palm reading on my mother. I'm sorry, mom for giving chat GPT your palm. We're gonna have to look into that on Google.

Chatchept will say yes to a request to do a palm reading.

Chatchept will say yes to a request to do a palm reading.

Oh absolutely, and then it gives you all of your different life lines and your bumps on your hand and all of that. And then there's the lowest hanging fruit, which is what do I text back to the guy from Hinge, which seems to be the most popular use.

Oh absolutely, and then it gives you all of your different life lines and your bumps on your hand and all of that. And then there's the lowest hanging fruit, which is what do I text back to the guy from Hinge, which seems to be the most popular use.

Yeah. I love the idea of AI palmistry. I mean, all of these industries that would have thought when the writers were striking in Hollywood two years ago, this will never happen to me.

Yeah. I love the idea of AI palmistry. I mean, all of these industries that would have thought when the writers were striking in Hollywood two years ago, this will never happen to me.

Of all of it, I.

Of all of it, I.

Should have laughed. But literally, really, a palm with AI is insane.

Should have laughed. But literally, really, a palm with AI is insane.

We're going to see all those storefronts in the West Village and Greenwich Village just shutting down because chatgvt has taken their jobs.

We're going to see all those storefronts in the West Village and Greenwich Village just shutting down because chatgvt has taken their jobs.

Just computer screens and palm readers. Yeah. Something I think back too often is my conversation with azeemas are Back in March, he writes the Exponential View newsletter, and he talks about the adoption of AI. Back in March, he'd just given a presentation at south By Southwest about the intersection between AI and energy demand, specifically how much energy is needed to power all this new usage, and he says something that really stuck with me, which is that USAI dominance could be challenged by how quickly this country can bring new power onto the grid.

Just computer screens and palm readers. Yeah. Something I think back too often is my conversation with azeemas are Back in March, he writes the Exponential View newsletter, and he talks about the adoption of AI. Back in March, he'd just given a presentation at south By Southwest about the intersection between AI and energy demand, specifically how much energy is needed to power all this new usage, and he says something that really stuck with me, which is that USAI dominance could be challenged by how quickly this country can bring new power onto the grid.

Yeah, and the tech companies are addressing this head on. Microsoft made a deal with the owners of the Three Mile Island nuclear plant, which suffered a meltdown in the nineteen seventies, to reopen it, and in return, Microsoft committed to paying almost double market energy rates over a twenty year contract.

Yeah, and the tech companies are addressing this head on. Microsoft made a deal with the owners of the Three Mile Island nuclear plant, which suffered a meltdown in the nineteen seventies, to reopen it, and in return, Microsoft committed to paying almost double market energy rates over a twenty year contract.

So obviously energy is absolutely critical to the future of the tech industry, and as we know US private money increasingly plays a huge role in tech buildout. And just look at Stargate, which are both fascinated by.

So obviously energy is absolutely critical to the future of the tech industry, and as we know US private money increasingly plays a huge role in tech buildout. And just look at Stargate, which are both fascinated by.

I don't know if i'd say fave, but I'm definitely interested in Stargate.

I don't know if i'd say fave, but I'm definitely interested in Stargate.

This week, per Bloomberg quote, a new venture capital firm called SIV has raised an inaugural fund of two hundred million dollars to invest in startups tackling projects like nuclear energy and manufacturing, joining a broader movement in Silicon Valley to back physical world companies with national implications. Hits tell us more is Jeff Rosenthal, the co founder and managing partner of SIV. Jeff, thanks so much for being here today.

This week, per Bloomberg quote, a new venture capital firm called SIV has raised an inaugural fund of two hundred million dollars to invest in startups tackling projects like nuclear energy and manufacturing, joining a broader movement in Silicon Valley to back physical world companies with national implications. Hits tell us more is Jeff Rosenthal, the co founder and managing partner of SIV. Jeff, thanks so much for being here today.

Thanks so much for having me Oz. It's great to be here.

Thanks so much for having me Oz. It's great to be here.

So tell us a little bit about SIV.

So tell us a little bit about SIV.

So.

So.

SIV is a firm built with a very singular purpose in mind. It's to back and build businesses that are focusing on critical infrastructure and industry domestically. Here in the US. There are these three multi decade megatrends that are really meeting us quickly in this moment, and those are AI and compute and the power needs behind them in the digital infrastructure required. As you mentioned, the rev limitter to AI really isn't GPUs, it is electrons. It's the reshoring and reindustrialization of global industry after decades of offshoring and globalization really following COVID and Ukraine and now accelerated with the new administration. And then the third is the electrification of everything and really just the need for energy abundance domestically, not only because of economic prosperity, but also as a pertinent national security requirement. So we see that as a potential seventy trillion dollar market opportunity over the next fifteen years. To put that in perspective, that would be like building the rail system and the highway system every six weeks for fifteen years here in the United States.

SIV is a firm built with a very singular purpose in mind. It's to back and build businesses that are focusing on critical infrastructure and industry domestically. Here in the US. There are these three multi decade megatrends that are really meeting us quickly in this moment, and those are AI and compute and the power needs behind them in the digital infrastructure required. As you mentioned, the rev limitter to AI really isn't GPUs, it is electrons. It's the reshoring and reindustrialization of global industry after decades of offshoring and globalization really following COVID and Ukraine and now accelerated with the new administration. And then the third is the electrification of everything and really just the need for energy abundance domestically, not only because of economic prosperity, but also as a pertinent national security requirement. So we see that as a potential seventy trillion dollar market opportunity over the next fifteen years. To put that in perspective, that would be like building the rail system and the highway system every six weeks for fifteen years here in the United States.

And what's the name SIEV means SIV is short for civilization, So big, big goals.

And what's the name SIEV means SIV is short for civilization, So big, big goals.

I mean, you know, shoot for the stars, land on the moon.

I mean, you know, shoot for the stars, land on the moon.

I'm especially interested in energy, and we've spoken about Microsoft's investments in nuclear power. Do you at SIV have a kind of ten year view on how America's energy needs are going to be addressed?

I'm especially interested in energy, and we've spoken about Microsoft's investments in nuclear power. Do you at SIV have a kind of ten year view on how America's energy needs are going to be addressed?

Absolutely? Yeah. So we're saying we want to triple energy consumption, you know, in a decade. Right. It's it's just the United States. It's like a lot of these things that people say. It's like, hey, if we're going to meet the needs of the time, if we're going to meet the demand curve of AI and reshoring and electrification, we need to triple energy. It just doesn't really work that way because we're talking about infrastructure. This is steel, it's rebar, it's concrete, it's tens of thousands of people on work sites every single day. And so it's not AI, it's not software. You can't just say, like, we have a million more users, let's just scale it. You know, when we looked at this and we saw inflect demand with relatively fixed supply. We thought that there was really nothing that could completely cross that chasm except maybe the thing that we invented seventy years ago, which is a scaled vision. So you see plenty of money and venture going into new reactors. And so when we look at the United States, we have ninety four operational reactors today, we're the leading nuclear superpower in the world. However, there's about fifty different designs active, which means that they're all special snowflakes. And when you build anything in of one as a singular project, that's the most expensive way you could ever do things. And so what we innovated on at the Nuclear Company, which we co founded on our platform actually before raising outside capital, is really a fleet scale approach to developing and deploying approved nuclear.

Absolutely? Yeah. So we're saying we want to triple energy consumption, you know, in a decade. Right. It's it's just the United States. It's like a lot of these things that people say. It's like, hey, if we're going to meet the needs of the time, if we're going to meet the demand curve of AI and reshoring and electrification, we need to triple energy. It just doesn't really work that way because we're talking about infrastructure. This is steel, it's rebar, it's concrete, it's tens of thousands of people on work sites every single day. And so it's not AI, it's not software. You can't just say, like, we have a million more users, let's just scale it. You know, when we looked at this and we saw inflect demand with relatively fixed supply. We thought that there was really nothing that could completely cross that chasm except maybe the thing that we invented seventy years ago, which is a scaled vision. So you see plenty of money and venture going into new reactors. And so when we look at the United States, we have ninety four operational reactors today, we're the leading nuclear superpower in the world. However, there's about fifty different designs active, which means that they're all special snowflakes. And when you build anything in of one as a singular project, that's the most expensive way you could ever do things. And so what we innovated on at the Nuclear Company, which we co founded on our platform actually before raising outside capital, is really a fleet scale approach to developing and deploying approved nuclear.

Reactors, a fleet of reactors.

Reactors, a fleet of reactors.

Yes, so instead of building one approved reactor gigawatt scale reactor, we're actually building in of six. And the idea is that you have huge cost declines and huge time declines from reactor one to two to three to five. You can build a real supply chain, you can build real trades that roll from reactor to reactor, and this is all through observed data.

Yes, so instead of building one approved reactor gigawatt scale reactor, we're actually building in of six. And the idea is that you have huge cost declines and huge time declines from reactor one to two to three to five. You can build a real supply chain, you can build real trades that roll from reactor to reactor, and this is all through observed data.

Power generation is one challenge, power storage is another. Onboarding to the grid is another, Dealing with regulations is another. What's the kind of total picture of the ways in which you are addressing the opportunity of energy demand in the US.

Power generation is one challenge, power storage is another. Onboarding to the grid is another, Dealing with regulations is another. What's the kind of total picture of the ways in which you are addressing the opportunity of energy demand in the US.

Yeah, I think it's a very broad set of needs. To your point, it's energy generation, it's storage, it's dealing with more and more volatility on the grid which increases cost. It's dealing with, as you mentioned in the opening, the veritable arms race that the hyperscalers are going through for power. This is a existential crisis for them to secure their future growth. There is industrial efficiency technology. There's everything in the vertical of digital infrastructure, cooling, high capacity lines, you know, next generation racks and servers, innovation and acceleration in GPU, and this is all Chapter one. That's the most exciting part is like this is the worst that this technology will ever be. And this is the very beginning of the innovation cycle for all of these things. When you use chat GPT's the worst it will ever be. The way we really model what we personally back or build as we say, hey, is this scale tech versus deep tech. We think ninety five percent of the solutions are here today. The chasm to cross is more one of execution than one of pure intervention.

Yeah, I think it's a very broad set of needs. To your point, it's energy generation, it's storage, it's dealing with more and more volatility on the grid which increases cost. It's dealing with, as you mentioned in the opening, the veritable arms race that the hyperscalers are going through for power. This is a existential crisis for them to secure their future growth. There is industrial efficiency technology. There's everything in the vertical of digital infrastructure, cooling, high capacity lines, you know, next generation racks and servers, innovation and acceleration in GPU, and this is all Chapter one. That's the most exciting part is like this is the worst that this technology will ever be. And this is the very beginning of the innovation cycle for all of these things. When you use chat GPT's the worst it will ever be. The way we really model what we personally back or build as we say, hey, is this scale tech versus deep tech. We think ninety five percent of the solutions are here today. The chasm to cross is more one of execution than one of pure intervention.

Just just to clarify, scale tech means something that already exists that you can accelerate by investing in, whereas deep tech means essentially replicating the role of university or funding for research that may only bear commercial fruits a decade from now.

Just just to clarify, scale tech means something that already exists that you can accelerate by investing in, whereas deep tech means essentially replicating the role of university or funding for research that may only bear commercial fruits a decade from now.

That's right. I think it's too long duration to capital intensive for a vehicle like ours, and we're also not PhDs, so we really don't have much to offer you if you're still in a lab, so we won't really take binary science or technology risk. We then look for proven customer demand, hence our LP base of true operators in the spaces in which we invest. We want to understand the appetite for adoption, the imminence of that adoption, when would you adopt it, and then we want to back into competitive unit economics. Businesses with those features really scale exponentially. They can really redefine markets.

That's right. I think it's too long duration to capital intensive for a vehicle like ours, and we're also not PhDs, so we really don't have much to offer you if you're still in a lab, so we won't really take binary science or technology risk. We then look for proven customer demand, hence our LP base of true operators in the spaces in which we invest. We want to understand the appetite for adoption, the imminence of that adoption, when would you adopt it, and then we want to back into competitive unit economics. Businesses with those features really scale exponentially. They can really redefine markets.

After the break, OZ has more from Jeff Rosenthal, a VC firmative that's on tech Stuff's tech support.

After the break, OZ has more from Jeff Rosenthal, a VC firmative that's on tech Stuff's tech support.

Stay with us.

Stay with us.

On the nuclear side. This is kind of one of the great debates I think going on in the tech world will be how much of text amount of energy is met by nuclear. Of course, one of the facts in this is that people are scared of nuclear power. I mean they're scared of how you suppose that the wast they're scared of meltdowns. Did you have any concerns about the first project in this space? You know, you're putting your name to being nuclear.

On the nuclear side. This is kind of one of the great debates I think going on in the tech world will be how much of text amount of energy is met by nuclear. Of course, one of the facts in this is that people are scared of nuclear power. I mean they're scared of how you suppose that the wast they're scared of meltdowns. Did you have any concerns about the first project in this space? You know, you're putting your name to being nuclear.

I think it gives us solid that zero people have died from nuclear in the United States. You know, like hundreds of fallen off of windmills. If you think about coal plants or all the other ways in which we consume power, there's trade offs to everything. I personally feel that splitting atoms to create chain reactions to power giant turbines that give us the energy and prosperity for our cities in our society is almost the most amazing thing we've ever done as a species. And we're not handling nuclear waste ourselves. It's not like I'm taking it out in a bag in the back of my house. We work with nuclear operating utilities, and so this is constellation or floor to power in light. They handle the nuclear waste today without issue. We do believe that this is an essential part of the power mix of the future. It won't be all of it, you know, Like today, the most efficient way to really run a data center on power is two gas turbines because that achieves a capacity factor, meaning they can stay on close to one hundred percent of the time. The problem with intermittent energy powering data centers is you really can't do training or.

I think it gives us solid that zero people have died from nuclear in the United States. You know, like hundreds of fallen off of windmills. If you think about coal plants or all the other ways in which we consume power, there's trade offs to everything. I personally feel that splitting atoms to create chain reactions to power giant turbines that give us the energy and prosperity for our cities in our society is almost the most amazing thing we've ever done as a species. And we're not handling nuclear waste ourselves. It's not like I'm taking it out in a bag in the back of my house. We work with nuclear operating utilities, and so this is constellation or floor to power in light. They handle the nuclear waste today without issue. We do believe that this is an essential part of the power mix of the future. It won't be all of it, you know, Like today, the most efficient way to really run a data center on power is two gas turbines because that achieves a capacity factor, meaning they can stay on close to one hundred percent of the time. The problem with intermittent energy powering data centers is you really can't do training or.

Inference intimatum being basically solar.

Inference intimatum being basically solar.

Wind, et cetera. Yeah, so the value of twenty four x seven clean base power is exponential for the entire system. It's really really important. So it's not all just apples to apples.

Wind, et cetera. Yeah, so the value of twenty four x seven clean base power is exponential for the entire system. It's really really important. So it's not all just apples to apples.

There is I mean, there are cool storage solutions around, you know, capturing wind and solar energy to make it on nine twenty four seven or investments in.

There is I mean, there are cool storage solutions around, you know, capturing wind and solar energy to make it on nine twenty four seven or investments in.

That space explicitly true. There are emergent technologies for large long duration battery storage for wind and solar. There's things like form energy and in Tora energy, there's interesting startups that are looking to store thing and it's store power and heat. So these things are amazing, they're so inspiring, but they are not really here today.

That space explicitly true. There are emergent technologies for large long duration battery storage for wind and solar. There's things like form energy and in Tora energy, there's interesting startups that are looking to store thing and it's store power and heat. So these things are amazing, they're so inspiring, but they are not really here today.

We talked a lot on this show about how some of these things that seemed like pipe dreams or seemed like science fiction, uh, you know, becoming science fact in our lifetimes.

We talked a lot on this show about how some of these things that seemed like pipe dreams or seemed like science fiction, uh, you know, becoming science fact in our lifetimes.

These stories have been all around us for a long time. It's more an awareness issue than it is like an invention issue. So people are like, where's my iPhone? You know, I got my first iPhone? Change my life, life Gmail and change my life. Where are these things? And so I would argue that this is one of the spaces that you just see the future manifest regularly, like the impossible become possible. It's such a fun innovation cycle.

These stories have been all around us for a long time. It's more an awareness issue than it is like an invention issue. So people are like, where's my iPhone? You know, I got my first iPhone? Change my life, life Gmail and change my life. Where are these things? And so I would argue that this is one of the spaces that you just see the future manifest regularly, like the impossible become possible. It's such a fun innovation cycle.

You know.

You know.

There's things like Cigar Lake. Cigar Lake is in eastern Saskatchewan, Canada. It's owned by Camico. They discovered it in the early eighties. It's underneath a snow melt lake fourteen hundred feet deep. It's a billion three year old deposit of uranium. Most uranium, say in Africa point one two point two percent uranium per ounce of war, right, and so these massive sulphuric acid leaching fields. This is like twenty four percent uranium war It's the second most concentrated uranium deposit in the world. So they spent decades figuring out how to freeze the lake. They free on this entire lake. Okay, then they rebarred it, and then they drilled it fourteen hundred feet down and they've been mining it with robots for three decades. And it's where something like a quarter of our uranium comes from in the United States. And so all I'm saying the reason I offer you this, this is like a wonder of the world. There are one hundred of these. We just don't really know about them because we haven't been excited about this space for a long time.

There's things like Cigar Lake. Cigar Lake is in eastern Saskatchewan, Canada. It's owned by Camico. They discovered it in the early eighties. It's underneath a snow melt lake fourteen hundred feet deep. It's a billion three year old deposit of uranium. Most uranium, say in Africa point one two point two percent uranium per ounce of war, right, and so these massive sulphuric acid leaching fields. This is like twenty four percent uranium war It's the second most concentrated uranium deposit in the world. So they spent decades figuring out how to freeze the lake. They free on this entire lake. Okay, then they rebarred it, and then they drilled it fourteen hundred feet down and they've been mining it with robots for three decades. And it's where something like a quarter of our uranium comes from in the United States. And so all I'm saying the reason I offer you this, this is like a wonder of the world. There are one hundred of these. We just don't really know about them because we haven't been excited about this space for a long time.

Bloomberg used the phrase physical world companies with national implications. I thought was a good phrase because the world you're investing in and building, of course, intersects very heavily with politics. But on clean energy, it's kind of interesting because President Trump has talked about beautiful coal, beautiful, clean coal, beautiful beautiful, and has certainly stepped away from the Biden administration's commitment to like keleen energy and green energy. At the same time, I think Q one of twenty twenty five was the biggest bonanza quarter for investment in climate tech the US has ever seen. Five million dollars invested in one quarter up nearly sixty five percent year on year. What's going on there is private capitals seeing an opportunity in public drawback or how do you know?

Bloomberg used the phrase physical world companies with national implications. I thought was a good phrase because the world you're investing in and building, of course, intersects very heavily with politics. But on clean energy, it's kind of interesting because President Trump has talked about beautiful coal, beautiful, clean coal, beautiful beautiful, and has certainly stepped away from the Biden administration's commitment to like keleen energy and green energy. At the same time, I think Q one of twenty twenty five was the biggest bonanza quarter for investment in climate tech the US has ever seen. Five million dollars invested in one quarter up nearly sixty five percent year on year. What's going on there is private capitals seeing an opportunity in public drawback or how do you know?

I mean, this is the Golden Age. So first and foremost, there's this thing called Geben's paradox, and with Jebens paradox, exis ammons is that for you know, one hundred and fifty years, humans have essentially gotten one percent more efficient every single year. We invent LEDs where we figure out a more efficient electric motor, and then we use that gain an efficiency which drops pricing to increase consumption by one point three percent. So every time we increase efficiency gains, we actually use more of what we have.

I mean, this is the Golden Age. So first and foremost, there's this thing called Geben's paradox, and with Jebens paradox, exis ammons is that for you know, one hundred and fifty years, humans have essentially gotten one percent more efficient every single year. We invent LEDs where we figure out a more efficient electric motor, and then we use that gain an efficiency which drops pricing to increase consumption by one point three percent. So every time we increase efficiency gains, we actually use more of what we have.

And this was why when deep Sea came out, the Nvidia stock price went down, a lot of small people said, well, actually this might be a good thing ultimately because although they've done it without the very very advanced chips, this will ultimately drive more demand for chips one.

And this was why when deep Sea came out, the Nvidia stock price went down, a lot of small people said, well, actually this might be a good thing ultimately because although they've done it without the very very advanced chips, this will ultimately drive more demand for chips one.

Percent and more demand for AI. I believe we're pretty energy blind in our society to a degree. In the case of these clean energy companies and these efficiency technologies. For the twenty years leading up to this we were in an abundance market. You just did not need these things. There was no market driver, there was no demand driver for innovation in these spaces, and so that you can see the returns being pretty abysmal.

Percent and more demand for AI. I believe we're pretty energy blind in our society to a degree. In the case of these clean energy companies and these efficiency technologies. For the twenty years leading up to this we were in an abundance market. You just did not need these things. There was no market driver, there was no demand driver for innovation in these spaces, and so that you can see the returns being pretty abysmal.

Historical energy demand was flat until Jerry, we.

Historical energy demand was flat until Jerry, we.

Were solving problem that didn't exist yet. And so it's not just AI that's a major contributor. It's AI. It's the reshoring and reindustrialization of global industry. If you want to smelt steel in America, it takes a lot of power building flush rocks in America if you want to I mean, let alone, refinement of critical minerals and then the mining of critical minerals like these are all things that are nonpartisan in my opinion. Like this is a movement that's been happening for quite some time. And we see, you know, the tariffs more as a canary in the coal mine.

Were solving problem that didn't exist yet. And so it's not just AI that's a major contributor. It's AI. It's the reshoring and reindustrialization of global industry. If you want to smelt steel in America, it takes a lot of power building flush rocks in America if you want to I mean, let alone, refinement of critical minerals and then the mining of critical minerals like these are all things that are nonpartisan in my opinion. Like this is a movement that's been happening for quite some time. And we see, you know, the tariffs more as a canary in the coal mine.

So the energy sector has been particularly punished by the swings and roundabouts on the tariffs. I think abound sixteen percent this year. That's not something that concerns you as somebody investing in this space, I.

So the energy sector has been particularly punished by the swings and roundabouts on the tariffs. I think abound sixteen percent this year. That's not something that concerns you as somebody investing in this space, I.

Think it certainly concerns me. I think that you know, you talk to anybody in retail markets are softening, consumers are spending less money. But I think that these trends that we're talking about are multi decade mega trends that you know, you're going to need these things if you want to have a prosperous society in the future.

Think it certainly concerns me. I think that you know, you talk to anybody in retail markets are softening, consumers are spending less money. But I think that these trends that we're talking about are multi decade mega trends that you know, you're going to need these things if you want to have a prosperous society in the future.

When people think about the sa they tend to think about consumer like you know, will by Parker or Goop. Well, I think about SaaS, I think about you know, Slack or Shopify or whatever else. But you're not the only person to be looking addressing this kind of infrastructure opportunity through VC. Andrewson, I think, announced a six and roe million dollar fun last year to address American dynamism.

When people think about the sa they tend to think about consumer like you know, will by Parker or Goop. Well, I think about SaaS, I think about you know, Slack or Shopify or whatever else. But you're not the only person to be looking addressing this kind of infrastructure opportunity through VC. Andrewson, I think, announced a six and roe million dollar fun last year to address American dynamism.

What's striving this necessity is the mother of innovation first and foremost. You know, you have these mega trens we've identified, I think many other people have. I think that there's also a more durable moat in physical products in a sense now, so while you know, hardware the first four letters, and hardware is hard and so Benuura is always like, yeah, you know, I'll stick to enterprise SaaS. That is way less defensible than it used to be. You know, now with windsurf and your own time, no staff, you can code and develop, you know, your own apps or platforms or technologies. Suites that used to take millions of dollars in years and dozens of people on front end back in nearing development. None of that is necessary anymore.

What's striving this necessity is the mother of innovation first and foremost. You know, you have these mega trens we've identified, I think many other people have. I think that there's also a more durable moat in physical products in a sense now, so while you know, hardware the first four letters, and hardware is hard and so Benuura is always like, yeah, you know, I'll stick to enterprise SaaS. That is way less defensible than it used to be. You know, now with windsurf and your own time, no staff, you can code and develop, you know, your own apps or platforms or technologies. Suites that used to take millions of dollars in years and dozens of people on front end back in nearing development. None of that is necessary anymore.

So.

So.

The defensibility of what was really like the center of the Venn diagram for venture deals a decade ago has kind of disappeared to a degree. I think people are conscious of that, and so we'd rather work with companies that are utilizing the tools of the day to really reimagine and reinvent critical industries versus just being like yet another digital service provider.

The defensibility of what was really like the center of the Venn diagram for venture deals a decade ago has kind of disappeared to a degree. I think people are conscious of that, and so we'd rather work with companies that are utilizing the tools of the day to really reimagine and reinvent critical industries versus just being like yet another digital service provider.

Jeff, thank you for joining us on tech Stuff.

Jeff, thank you for joining us on tech Stuff.

Of course, thank you for having me.

Of course, thank you for having me.

That's it for this week for tech Stuff.

That's it for this week for tech Stuff.

I'm Karra Price and I'm as Valoshin. This episode was produced by Eliza Dennis, Victoria Dominguez and Adriana Tapia. Is Executive produced by me Cara Price and Kate Osborne for Kaleidoscope and Katrina Norvel for iHeart Podcasts. The engineers are Bahiit Fraser and Graham Gibson. Kyle Murdock makes this episode and he also rid of theme.

I'm Karra Price and I'm as Valoshin. This episode was produced by Eliza Dennis, Victoria Dominguez and Adriana Tapia. Is Executive produced by me Cara Price and Kate Osborne for Kaleidoscope and Katrina Norvel for iHeart Podcasts. The engineers are Bahiit Fraser and Graham Gibson. Kyle Murdock makes this episode and he also rid of theme.

Song Join us next Wednesday for tex Stuff the Story, when we will share an in depth conversation with journalist and podcast host Evan Ratliffe about a radical group of young tech people concerned by the existential threat of AI, who are on trial for murder.

Song Join us next Wednesday for tex Stuff the Story, when we will share an in depth conversation with journalist and podcast host Evan Ratliffe about a radical group of young tech people concerned by the existential threat of AI, who are on trial for murder.

Please rate, review, and reach out to us at tech Stuff podcast at gmail dot com. We really want to hear from you.

Please rate, review, and reach out to us at tech Stuff podcast at gmail dot com. We really want to hear from you.