Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with iHeartRadio and how the tech are you? So? In an episode last week, I talked about CPU architecture and I mentioned that there are two primary chip design companies responsible for most of the CPUs on the market, and by that I mean specifically processors for desktop and laptop computers. Now that being said, there are some smaller chip design companies that are in that space as well, but the two big players are Intel and AMD. So I thought I would do a quick episode about the differences between these two companies and their products, because if you're ever building your own PC, then one of the decisions you need to make is do I go AMD or do I go Intel? And just a reminder that means that you know, this decision really does matter because motherboards, you know, the giant circuit boards that you plug processors into, they're only compatible with one of the two, like they're either Intel compatible or AMD compatible. And even then you also have to look for compatibility within certain families of processors. But you can't buy an Intel based motherboard and insert an AMD CPU and vice versa, and we'll talk about why as this episode unfolds. So interestingly, the companies are kind of siblings, that is, they both have the same daddy daddy fair Child Semiconductor. And yes, if you're wondering if I wrote this episode right after my weird episode about logic gates earlier this week, I did. And I was still groggy and loopy still am as I record this, And that's just how things are. So anyway, fair Child semi Conductor was kind of the dad to both AMD and Intel, and I guess that makes William Shockley the grandfather for both of these companies as well. Shockley was a co founder of the transistor at Bell Labs, and in nineteen fifty five he founded the Shockley Semiconductor Laboratory, and he recruited lots of super smart engineering students and engineers, and he was also notoriously awful to work for, if reports are to be believed, so that led to an interesting situation. In nineteen fifty seven, eight of the employees of Shockley Semiconductor resigned altogether, and it was these eight that would then co found Fairchild Semiconductor. This was a branch of a larger camera company that already existed, the Fairchild Camera Company, And this company had been looking into getting involved in the semiconductor biz, but they didn't have the know how or the starting capital to just jump right in. So these guys ended up coming over and created that division for Fairchild and work there. These eight men became known as the Traitoress eight. Though, considering the types of stuff that Shockley was interested in later in his life, perhaps the word trader should be changed to eight guys who saw what was coming and got while the getting was good. Among those eight were two men who wo had later co found Intel. They were Gordon Moore and Robert Noise. But between Shockley semi Conductors and Intel, you still have Fairchild semi Conductor, right, So they're all working at Fairchild. And in nineteen sixty one a guy named Jeremiah Jerry Sanders would join Fairchild semi Conductor as an engineer. He would later go on to co found AMD. So anyway, before that, at Fairchild semi Conductor, things are plugging away till you hit nineteen sixty eight. That's when Robert Nois and Gordon Moore resigned from Fairchild and they go to co found Intel. Sanders would then leave Fairchild along with seven others, So I guess another Traders say, if you want to think of it that way, in nineteen six and they co founded Advanced micro Devices Incorporated or AMD. Early on, Intel focused on designing memory chips, not CPUs, which shouldn't be a surprise because the CPU hadn't been invented yet. We did not get the first CPU until nineteen seventy one, and remember Intel traces its history to nineteen sixty eight. The CPU actually came out of Intel. It was the Intel for zero zero four. Interestingly, this was a side project at Intel, because Intel's main business were these memory chips. But as a side project, some engineers were able to build an integrated circuit chip that had all the functions that we associate with CPUs, and so before that, all the different functions of a CPU would have to span across different components on a circuit board. Now you could have them all in the same chip, and that was huge, although also paradoxically very tiny because chips are not big anyway. It would take a couple of years for microprocessors to really take off, but they sure as heck did. AMD likewise designed and fabricated memory chips, and once Intel got going with CPUs and other companies started to follow suit, AMD got a lot of business as a second source manufacturer. So a second source manufacturer is a company that secures a license to manufacture some other companies designed product. So Nvidia does this model a lot and outsources manufacturing of its chips, and that makes sense because to manufacture chips that requires a huge initial cost to build out the fabrication facilities, so companies like Nvidia license that out to other companies. AMD would produce chips designed by other companies, including Intel, but the cooperative relationship between AMD and Intel was not to last. The second source manufacturing agreement expired in nineteen eighty six. There was an agreement to share technologies that was a little more lenient and lasted a bit longer, but Intel an AMD would kind of go their own way, well kind of, because AMD started to reverse engineer Intel chips and then make their own Intel compatible chips, so they weren't licensed by Intel anymore. But they figured out how Intel's processors were designed and then were able to replicate that in their own facilities. Now, Intel created what would become known as the X eighty six chip architecture. The first processor in this family was the eighty eighty six, which Intel produced in nineteen seventy eight. This was a sixteen BET microprocessor. I just did an episode trying to explain what that means when you talk about a system being like sixteen BET versus thirty two BET, et cetera. And we did talk about chip architecture last week. So essentially that just involves the layout of the various components in a CPU, and that layout is partly what determines the chip's performance. Uh, you know, how much data it can process in a given amount of time, how much power is required to run the chip, and how much heat the chip generates as it chugs along. All of that depend at least partly on the chip's architecture. The X eighty six architecture proved to be a very strong foundation for Intel. If you've been around for a while, you might remember IBM compatible computers back when we used to call you know, PC's IBM compatibles because they were based off IBM's initial PC design. But you might remember processors like the two eighty six or the three eighty six or the four eighty six. I believe when I was growing up, we had a two eighty six and then jumped up to a for eighty six, not immediately, like we let that two eighty six last a good long while before we upgraded. But yeah, I remember using those computers. So the X in X eighty six is kind of like a variable in algebra, represents a family of processors that all draw from the same basic chip architecture design. AMD reverse engineered the x eighty six architecture and began to produce its own chips that were similar to Intel's thirty two bit three eighty six processor, extremely similar, in fact, similar enough that Intel and AMD got into some legal scraps over this. The matter ultimately went all the way up to the US Supreme Court, and in nineteen ninety four, the Supreme Court would weigh in. But yeah, before that, the legal decisions were flip flopping. Some of the courts were finding in favor of Intel, some in favor of AMD that got reversed by an appeals court. Eventually gets up to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court votes in favor of AMD. Also, that wasn't the last time the two companies would clash in the Supreme Court, but that for a full episode focusing just on AMD. I guess now, for a long time, Intel's chips had a performance edge over AMD, so AMD was really focused on making chips that were more efficient, so they were less power hungry. They were also more affordable, not just in the price tag on the chip, but also because they were sipping less power, you didn't have to spin as much on electricity bills. And both Intel and AMD were relying on this X eighty six architecture. However, in nineteen ninety nine, AMD did something really shocking. They introduced the first X eighty six processor with a one gigahertz clock speed. Now I've been over clock speed a couple times recently, but just as a reminder, the speed references the number of times the quote unquote clock of the CPU oscillates per second. So a gigahertz processor has a clock that oscillates one billion times every second. And AMD was the first company to get there. And you could think of oscillations as being sort of the span of time that a computer has to complete a step in an operation. While AMD was only a year younger than Intel, It was this move in nineteen ninety nine that really signaled that AMD was a worthy competitor to the industry giant. You know, it had been kind of trailing behind and writing Intel's coattails, if you want to look at it that way. But ninety nine showed that AMD was here for real z's it meant business. Internally, AMD called this microprocessor the K seven because it was the seventh generation X eighty six based CPU that AMD had produced, but the brand name for the CPU was the Athlon processor, and the Athlon would end up marking a divided path for AMD and Intel. I'll explain how after we come back from this quick break. All right, we were talking about a divided path between AMD and Intel. So Intel processors had an electrical as well as physical orientation for plugging into a motherboard, and at the time of the Athlon processor from AMD, Intel's specifications were called slot one. AMD no longer had the right to license Slot one technology, so that meant AMD had to choose a different specification for its chip to plug into a motherboard. This specification would be called slot A. So very confusing, right slot one versus Slot A. You get the feeling that both companies were going for this so that no one had to be number two or B. So anyway, you had slot one for Intel and Slot A for AMD, and the word slot is starting to lose all meaning for me. Mechanically, an AMD processor could fit into a motherboard that was made for Intel processors, and this was good from motherboard manufacturers reduced the hardship they would have to make motherboards that were compatible with each chip because the mechanical parts of the board could remain the same. However, electronically the two slots were incompatible, so the contacts on the chip in Slot one chips were different from those that were in Slot A, so you could not put a slot A style chip in a slot one style motherboard. That would not work. And this would hold true over successive generations of Intel and AMD chips. The chips would evolve, as did the types of connections on motherboards. They got away from slots and into sockets. But anyway, the whole thing got started at this stage where the Athlon processor kind of went off on this next step because previously you could put an AMD chip in an Intel motherboard because the AMD had been making Intel style chips. They were a second source manufacturer. But this time was now over. Both companies would evolve their technologies and the fork in the road would get wider over time. Generally speaking, there were some basic pros and cons that you could associate with the chips that the companies made over different eras of their existence. So initially, Intel chips were more powerful and had higher clock speeds than what you would find with AMD chips, and then early on AMD chips were usually a little less expensive than Intel chips, and they were more power efficient, so they were also gentler on battery life, which was important for things like laptop computers, rather than Intel's processors, which, because they were more powerful, required more actual power and would drain batteries more quickly. Over time, these things have kind of flip flopped a little bit. One company would end up focusing on power for a bit, the other one would start to optimize architecture and boost efficiency, and then the roles would reverse. So you can't just make a blanket statement of saying Intel processors are faster than AMD. It's more complicated than that. In addition, Intel's domination for a very long time was in single thread processing, so that's the kind of processing that a really powerful single core processor is made to handle, and AMD was focusing for a long time on multicore and thus multi threading processing, and for specific types of computer processing, AMD could outperform Intel, but in other types of processing, Intel beat out AMD. And again, these relationships have also flip flopped over the years. Honestly, as both companies pushed innovation, the capabilities of their products began to converge. So they are different chips with different architectures, and they require different types of motherboards to connect to, but performance wise they're kind of narrowed in on each other. There's not that huge of a different between Intel and AMD depending upon which line of processors you're looking at. If you're looking at the very top of the line processors, then Intel has edged out AMD over the number of cores available, but then AMD holds the edge on more powerful individual cores. So Intel the Intel Core I nine thirteen nine hundred K, that processor, which is as a heck of a mouthful, has twenty four cores and has support of up to thirty two threads and multi threading. AMD's Rizin seventy nine point fifty X has quote unquote only sixteen cores compared to Intel's twenty four with the I nine thirteen nine hundred K. But AMD's sixteen cores can also handle thirty two threads of processing just like Intel's can, and AMD's chip runs at a higher clock frequency and greater cash memory than Intel's. So again, depending upon what your purpose you're using the chips for and what deals are available, that might really guide your decision more than anything else. So it's possible that the choice between Intel and AMD could really come down to your budget and the availability of specific processors and motherboards. So remember, choosing the processor determines what types of motherboards you can use, and if you go with an AMD chip, then you're going to need to make sure you get a motherboard that's compatible with AMD CPUs. It also will tell you things like what you need to think about when you're looking at things like like power supplies. Obviously, this chip is not going to be the only component you're plugging into your computer. You're going to have lots of other stuff, including possibly a really powerful graphics processing unit if you're, like you know, an elite gamer type, and that in turn will also determine the type of power supply you're going to need. In order to run your machine. So, yeah, the difference is between a MD and Intel from a performance standpoint really are hard to distinguish at this stage, especially when you're looking at, you know, specific price points and processor capabilities, because they're they're getting really similar in output, and it really comes down to things like your budget and the types of software you're planning on running on that machine. But that's really it. It's like it's not as it's not as cut and dry as it used to be, where you would say, oh, if you're doing a lot of stuff that's going to require a multi core processing, go with a m D. And if you want something that's really good for single thread and go with Intel. That's no longer necessarily the case. So it's a lot more complicated and nuanced than it used to be. Although if you're just looking at how much does it cost, that can simplify things dramatically. All Right, that's it for this quick episode about the differences between TELL at AMD from a CPU standpoint. There are obviously lots of other differences between the two companies, but I just wanted to focus on CPUs because that's kind of what we've been talking about for the last couple of weeks. I hope you are all well. Tomorrow we are going to have a classic episode of tech Stuff, a really classic one. This one dates all the way back to two thousand and nine, so I hope you enjoy that, and I'll talk to you again really soon. Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from iHeartRadio. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with iHeartRadio and how the tech are you? So? In an episode last week, I talked about CPU architecture and I mentioned that there are two primary chip design companies responsible for most of the CPUs on the market, and by that I mean specifically processors for desktop and laptop computers. Now that being said, there are some smaller chip design companies that are in that space as well, but the two big players are Intel and AMD. So I thought I would do a quick episode about the differences between these two companies and their products, because if you're ever building your own PC, then one of the decisions you need to make is do I go AMD or do I go Intel? And just a reminder that means that you know, this decision really does matter because motherboards, you know, the giant circuit boards that you plug processors into, they're only compatible with one of the two, like they're either Intel compatible or AMD compatible. And even then you also have to look for compatibility within certain families of processors. But you can't buy an Intel based motherboard and insert an AMD CPU and vice versa, and we'll talk about why as this episode unfolds. So interestingly, the companies are kind of siblings, that is, they both have the same daddy daddy fair Child Semiconductor. And yes, if you're wondering if I wrote this episode right after my weird episode about logic gates earlier this week, I did. And I was still groggy and loopy still am as I record this, And that's just how things are. So anyway, fair Child semi Conductor was kind of the dad to both AMD and Intel, and I guess that makes William Shockley the grandfather for both of these companies as well. Shockley was a co founder of the transistor at Bell Labs, and in nineteen fifty five he founded the Shockley Semiconductor Laboratory, and he recruited lots of super smart engineering students and engineers, and he was also notoriously awful to work for, if reports are to be believed, so that led to an interesting situation. In nineteen fifty seven, eight of the employees of Shockley Semiconductor resigned altogether, and it was these eight that would then co found Fairchild Semiconductor. This was a branch of a larger camera company that already existed, the Fairchild Camera Company, And this company had been looking into getting involved in the semiconductor biz, but they didn't have the know how or the starting capital to just jump right in. So these guys ended up coming over and created that division for Fairchild and work there. These eight men became known as the Traitoress eight. Though, considering the types of stuff that Shockley was interested in later in his life, perhaps the word trader should be changed to eight guys who saw what was coming and got while the getting was good. Among those eight were two men who wo had later co found Intel. They were Gordon Moore and Robert Noise. But between Shockley semi Conductors and Intel, you still have Fairchild semi Conductor, right, So they're all working at Fairchild. And in nineteen sixty one a guy named Jeremiah Jerry Sanders would join Fairchild semi Conductor as an engineer. He would later go on to co found AMD. So anyway, before that, at Fairchild semi Conductor, things are plugging away till you hit nineteen sixty eight. That's when Robert Nois and Gordon Moore resigned from Fairchild and they go to co found Intel. Sanders would then leave Fairchild along with seven others, So I guess another Traders say, if you want to think of it that way, in nineteen six and they co founded Advanced micro Devices Incorporated or AMD. Early on, Intel focused on designing memory chips, not CPUs, which shouldn't be a surprise because the CPU hadn't been invented yet. We did not get the first CPU until nineteen seventy one, and remember Intel traces its history to nineteen sixty eight. The CPU actually came out of Intel. It was the Intel for zero zero four. Interestingly, this was a side project at Intel, because Intel's main business were these memory chips. But as a side project, some engineers were able to build an integrated circuit chip that had all the functions that we associate with CPUs, and so before that, all the different functions of a CPU would have to span across different components on a circuit board. Now you could have them all in the same chip, and that was huge, although also paradoxically very tiny because chips are not big anyway. It would take a couple of years for microprocessors to really take off, but they sure as heck did. AMD likewise designed and fabricated memory chips, and once Intel got going with CPUs and other companies started to follow suit, AMD got a lot of business as a second source manufacturer. So a second source manufacturer is a company that secures a license to manufacture some other companies designed product. So Nvidia does this model a lot and outsources manufacturing of its chips, and that makes sense because to manufacture chips that requires a huge initial cost to build out the fabrication facilities, so companies like Nvidia license that out to other companies. AMD would produce chips designed by other companies, including Intel, but the cooperative relationship between AMD and Intel was not to last. The second source manufacturing agreement expired in nineteen eighty six. There was an agreement to share technologies that was a little more lenient and lasted a bit longer, but Intel an AMD would kind of go their own way, well kind of, because AMD started to reverse engineer Intel chips and then make their own Intel compatible chips, so they weren't licensed by Intel anymore. But they figured out how Intel's processors were designed and then were able to replicate that in their own facilities. Now, Intel created what would become known as the X eighty six chip architecture. The first processor in this family was the eighty eighty six, which Intel produced in nineteen seventy eight. This was a sixteen BET microprocessor. I just did an episode trying to explain what that means when you talk about a system being like sixteen BET versus thirty two BET, et cetera. And we did talk about chip architecture last week. So essentially that just involves the layout of the various components in a CPU, and that layout is partly what determines the chip's performance. Uh, you know, how much data it can process in a given amount of time, how much power is required to run the chip, and how much heat the chip generates as it chugs along. All of that depend at least partly on the chip's architecture. The X eighty six architecture proved to be a very strong foundation for Intel. If you've been around for a while, you might remember IBM compatible computers back when we used to call you know, PC's IBM compatibles because they were based off IBM's initial PC design. But you might remember processors like the two eighty six or the three eighty six or the four eighty six. I believe when I was growing up, we had a two eighty six and then jumped up to a for eighty six, not immediately, like we let that two eighty six last a good long while before we upgraded. But yeah, I remember using those computers. So the X in X eighty six is kind of like a variable in algebra, represents a family of processors that all draw from the same basic chip architecture design. AMD reverse engineered the x eighty six architecture and began to produce its own chips that were similar to Intel's thirty two bit three eighty six processor, extremely similar, in fact, similar enough that Intel and AMD got into some legal scraps over this. The matter ultimately went all the way up to the US Supreme Court, and in nineteen ninety four, the Supreme Court would weigh in. But yeah, before that, the legal decisions were flip flopping. Some of the courts were finding in favor of Intel, some in favor of AMD that got reversed by an appeals court. Eventually gets up to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court votes in favor of AMD. Also, that wasn't the last time the two companies would clash in the Supreme Court, but that for a full episode focusing just on AMD. I guess now, for a long time, Intel's chips had a performance edge over AMD, so AMD was really focused on making chips that were more efficient, so they were less power hungry. They were also more affordable, not just in the price tag on the chip, but also because they were sipping less power, you didn't have to spin as much on electricity bills. And both Intel and AMD were relying on this X eighty six architecture. However, in nineteen ninety nine, AMD did something really shocking. They introduced the first X eighty six processor with a one gigahertz clock speed. Now I've been over clock speed a couple times recently, but just as a reminder, the speed references the number of times the quote unquote clock of the CPU oscillates per second. So a gigahertz processor has a clock that oscillates one billion times every second. And AMD was the first company to get there. And you could think of oscillations as being sort of the span of time that a computer has to complete a step in an operation. While AMD was only a year younger than Intel, It was this move in nineteen ninety nine that really signaled that AMD was a worthy competitor to the industry giant. You know, it had been kind of trailing behind and writing Intel's coattails, if you want to look at it that way. But ninety nine showed that AMD was here for real z's it meant business. Internally, AMD called this microprocessor the K seven because it was the seventh generation X eighty six based CPU that AMD had produced, but the brand name for the CPU was the Athlon processor, and the Athlon would end up marking a divided path for AMD and Intel. I'll explain how after we come back from this quick break. All right, we were talking about a divided path between AMD and Intel. So Intel processors had an electrical as well as physical orientation for plugging into a motherboard, and at the time of the Athlon processor from AMD, Intel's specifications were called slot one. AMD no longer had the right to license Slot one technology, so that meant AMD had to choose a different specification for its chip to plug into a motherboard. This specification would be called slot A. So very confusing, right slot one versus Slot A. You get the feeling that both companies were going for this so that no one had to be number two or B. So anyway, you had slot one for Intel and Slot A for AMD, and the word slot is starting to lose all meaning for me. Mechanically, an AMD processor could fit into a motherboard that was made for Intel processors, and this was good from motherboard manufacturers reduced the hardship they would have to make motherboards that were compatible with each chip because the mechanical parts of the board could remain the same. However, electronically the two slots were incompatible, so the contacts on the chip in Slot one chips were different from those that were in Slot A, so you could not put a slot A style chip in a slot one style motherboard. That would not work. And this would hold true over successive generations of Intel and AMD chips. The chips would evolve, as did the types of connections on motherboards. They got away from slots and into sockets. But anyway, the whole thing got started at this stage where the Athlon processor kind of went off on this next step because previously you could put an AMD chip in an Intel motherboard because the AMD had been making Intel style chips. They were a second source manufacturer. But this time was now over. Both companies would evolve their technologies and the fork in the road would get wider over time. Generally speaking, there were some basic pros and cons that you could associate with the chips that the companies made over different eras of their existence. So initially, Intel chips were more powerful and had higher clock speeds than what you would find with AMD chips, and then early on AMD chips were usually a little less expensive than Intel chips, and they were more power efficient, so they were also gentler on battery life, which was important for things like laptop computers, rather than Intel's processors, which, because they were more powerful, required more actual power and would drain batteries more quickly. Over time, these things have kind of flip flopped a little bit. One company would end up focusing on power for a bit, the other one would start to optimize architecture and boost efficiency, and then the roles would reverse. So you can't just make a blanket statement of saying Intel processors are faster than AMD. It's more complicated than that. In addition, Intel's domination for a very long time was in single thread processing, so that's the kind of processing that a really powerful single core processor is made to handle, and AMD was focusing for a long time on multicore and thus multi threading processing, and for specific types of computer processing, AMD could outperform Intel, but in other types of processing, Intel beat out AMD. And again, these relationships have also flip flopped over the years. Honestly, as both companies pushed innovation, the capabilities of their products began to converge. So they are different chips with different architectures, and they require different types of motherboards to connect to, but performance wise they're kind of narrowed in on each other. There's not that huge of a different between Intel and AMD depending upon which line of processors you're looking at. If you're looking at the very top of the line processors, then Intel has edged out AMD over the number of cores available, but then AMD holds the edge on more powerful individual cores. So Intel the Intel Core I nine thirteen nine hundred K, that processor, which is as a heck of a mouthful, has twenty four cores and has support of up to thirty two threads and multi threading. AMD's Rizin seventy nine point fifty X has quote unquote only sixteen cores compared to Intel's twenty four with the I nine thirteen nine hundred K. But AMD's sixteen cores can also handle thirty two threads of processing just like Intel's can, and AMD's chip runs at a higher clock frequency and greater cash memory than Intel's. So again, depending upon what your purpose you're using the chips for and what deals are available, that might really guide your decision more than anything else. So it's possible that the choice between Intel and AMD could really come down to your budget and the availability of specific processors and motherboards. So remember, choosing the processor determines what types of motherboards you can use, and if you go with an AMD chip, then you're going to need to make sure you get a motherboard that's compatible with AMD CPUs. It also will tell you things like what you need to think about when you're looking at things like like power supplies. Obviously, this chip is not going to be the only component you're plugging into your computer. You're going to have lots of other stuff, including possibly a really powerful graphics processing unit if you're, like you know, an elite gamer type, and that in turn will also determine the type of power supply you're going to need. In order to run your machine. So, yeah, the difference is between a MD and Intel from a performance standpoint really are hard to distinguish at this stage, especially when you're looking at, you know, specific price points and processor capabilities, because they're they're getting really similar in output, and it really comes down to things like your budget and the types of software you're planning on running on that machine. But that's really it. It's like it's not as it's not as cut and dry as it used to be, where you would say, oh, if you're doing a lot of stuff that's going to require a multi core processing, go with a m D. And if you want something that's really good for single thread and go with Intel. That's no longer necessarily the case. So it's a lot more complicated and nuanced than it used to be. Although if you're just looking at how much does it cost, that can simplify things dramatically. All Right, that's it for this quick episode about the differences between TELL at AMD from a CPU standpoint. There are obviously lots of other differences between the two companies, but I just wanted to focus on CPUs because that's kind of what we've been talking about for the last couple of weeks. I hope you are all well. Tomorrow we are going to have a classic episode of tech Stuff, a really classic one. This one dates all the way back to two thousand and nine, so I hope you enjoy that, and I'll talk to you again really soon. Tech Stuff is an iHeartRadio production. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.