From Vision in Australia, this is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam, calling.

From Vision in Australia, this is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam, calling.

Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness and low vision,

Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness and low vision,

and I found that really valuable sort of teaching my kids, well, I'm I'm a blind date. I'm not depending on you for support. I'm on I. I create my own sort of support and independence.

and I found that really valuable sort of teaching my kids, well, I'm I'm a blind date. I'm not depending on you for support. I'm on I. I create my own sort of support and independence.

Welcome to the program you just heard from Vision Australia online training specialist and father of five Jamie Kelly. They're talking about the importance of support networks and independence for dads who are blind or have low vision. He joined me along with Chris Edwards a few weeks back as part of this year's Fathers Day panel, and you'll hear from them both very shortly. Our conversation takes up most of the show for this week, so I hope you'll enjoy the Father's Day panel with Jamie and Chris on this week's episode of Talking Vision. Today on the show, to celebrate Father's Day, we have a trade in store for all our listeners on talking vision. It's our special Father's Day panel. And joining us on the panel today, we have two dads who are blind or have low vision. Chris Edwards and Jamie Kelly, welcome to you both. Thanks very much for being on the show today.

Welcome to the program you just heard from Vision Australia online training specialist and father of five Jamie Kelly. They're talking about the importance of support networks and independence for dads who are blind or have low vision. He joined me along with Chris Edwards a few weeks back as part of this year's Fathers Day panel, and you'll hear from them both very shortly. Our conversation takes up most of the show for this week, so I hope you'll enjoy the Father's Day panel with Jamie and Chris on this week's episode of Talking Vision. Today on the show, to celebrate Father's Day, we have a trade in store for all our listeners on talking vision. It's our special Father's Day panel. And joining us on the panel today, we have two dads who are blind or have low vision. Chris Edwards and Jamie Kelly, welcome to you both. Thanks very much for being on the show today.

Hello, Sam and Chris. Pleasure to be here.

Hello, Sam and Chris. Pleasure to be here.

It's an absolute pleasure. And happy Father's Day to all

It's an absolute pleasure. And happy Father's Day to all

types of lately.

types of lately.

Yes. Now firstly, could you tell us a bit about yourselves so you could talk about your vision or your kids or, you know, anything of that nature? Chris, did you want to go first?

Yes. Now firstly, could you tell us a bit about yourselves so you could talk about your vision or your kids or, you know, anything of that nature? Chris, did you want to go first?

Yeah, thanks, Sam. So, yes, I've got a family of three kids, a girl boy and a girl. The oldest one, 21, and the youngest one 14. And so yes, while very much used to a busy family life and and you know, it's something that's very enjoyable.

Yeah, thanks, Sam. So, yes, I've got a family of three kids, a girl boy and a girl. The oldest one, 21, and the youngest one 14. And so yes, while very much used to a busy family life and and you know, it's something that's very enjoyable.

OK. And Jamie, how about you?

OK. And Jamie, how about you?

I'm totally blind, Sam and I'm a father of five boys. The youngest is 12. I have four boys living in home and the oldest one is 28 and I have two grandchildren, which is scary because I often forget that I've got them because I don't see them that often. But so my youngest son is in near grade six and the oldest one living at home is in year 12 and all boys. So it's probably a different mix for me than the increase. Of course, having all boys different, a different sort of challenges. And they're all teenagers, which is, you know, kind of interesting again.

I'm totally blind, Sam and I'm a father of five boys. The youngest is 12. I have four boys living in home and the oldest one is 28 and I have two grandchildren, which is scary because I often forget that I've got them because I don't see them that often. But so my youngest son is in near grade six and the oldest one living at home is in year 12 and all boys. So it's probably a different mix for me than the increase. Of course, having all boys different, a different sort of challenges. And they're all teenagers, which is, you know, kind of interesting again.

Absolutely. And they a lot of chaotic times and a very busy house for so. So Chris will move back to you now. Did you have any concerns that popped up when you found out you're going to be a dad, you know, relating to being totally blown?

Absolutely. And they a lot of chaotic times and a very busy house for so. So Chris will move back to you now. Did you have any concerns that popped up when you found out you're going to be a dad, you know, relating to being totally blown?

Well, you know, I think that, you know, like it's pretty common for any new expecting parent to have some apprehensions and wonder how it's all going to work and what parts of life are going to change. And I think that's no different for someone who's blind. You know, everybody has their unique challenges and and so being blind, yeah, that they're they're a little bit different. But, you know, of course, all the standard things of, you know, being able to read a baby's face or to be able to do the practical things like changing nappies are all things that you have to learn, you know, as kids get older. You know, there's there's different things and varying strategies that you have to put in place to to be able to live, you know, full family lives.

Well, you know, I think that, you know, like it's pretty common for any new expecting parent to have some apprehensions and wonder how it's all going to work and what parts of life are going to change. And I think that's no different for someone who's blind. You know, everybody has their unique challenges and and so being blind, yeah, that they're they're a little bit different. But, you know, of course, all the standard things of, you know, being able to read a baby's face or to be able to do the practical things like changing nappies are all things that you have to learn, you know, as kids get older. You know, there's there's different things and varying strategies that you have to put in place to to be able to live, you know, full family lives.

OK. And Jaime, what what was your feeling? Did you sort of have any worries or anything at the time? Or was that sort of a similar experience to what Chris just mentioned?

OK. And Jaime, what what was your feeling? Did you sort of have any worries or anything at the time? Or was that sort of a similar experience to what Chris just mentioned?

Well, for me, it was really, really the unknown because, you know, not really having much to do with little children before I was a dad. It was a whole new experience, of course. The thing I remember particularly is the first five years of not getting much sleep and, in other words, suffering from sleep deprivation. But I guess I didn't really know. I mean, that was obviously the anxiety of how am I going to cope? How am I going to manage? But really, the first few years of parenting you, sorry, sort of caught up in just dealing with day by day sort of getting through the day and all that sort of thing, going to health appointments, dealing with child care and all that sort of thing. That for me, the challenges were more sort of as the kids got a bit older and dealing with stuff outside of the house, for example. You know, I remember taking my son to Auskick, you know, when he was little every Saturday. And that was fun, but also challenging because here I was a tightly one person on my own with the dog guide and sort of feeling a little bit sort of foreign and often I'd end up sort of standing on my own somewhere. And it was always that was that feeling of Where do I go? What group of parents should I be standing with? And all that sort of thing. So they were sort of more my anxieties, sort of dealing with those sort of things. And it's a sort of, in some ways got easier, particularly when, you know, my my boys were teenagers. But yeah, I didn't have so many challenges with the day to day has to let you know at home sort of dealing with those sort of issues.

Well, for me, it was really, really the unknown because, you know, not really having much to do with little children before I was a dad. It was a whole new experience, of course. The thing I remember particularly is the first five years of not getting much sleep and, in other words, suffering from sleep deprivation. But I guess I didn't really know. I mean, that was obviously the anxiety of how am I going to cope? How am I going to manage? But really, the first few years of parenting you, sorry, sort of caught up in just dealing with day by day sort of getting through the day and all that sort of thing, going to health appointments, dealing with child care and all that sort of thing. That for me, the challenges were more sort of as the kids got a bit older and dealing with stuff outside of the house, for example. You know, I remember taking my son to Auskick, you know, when he was little every Saturday. And that was fun, but also challenging because here I was a tightly one person on my own with the dog guide and sort of feeling a little bit sort of foreign and often I'd end up sort of standing on my own somewhere. And it was always that was that feeling of Where do I go? What group of parents should I be standing with? And all that sort of thing. So they were sort of more my anxieties, sort of dealing with those sort of things. And it's a sort of, in some ways got easier, particularly when, you know, my my boys were teenagers. But yeah, I didn't have so many challenges with the day to day has to let you know at home sort of dealing with those sort of issues.

Mm-Hmm. Okay. Yeah, I think I think that's right. I mean, I think that, you know, I remember when first taking ice to walk my some of my kids to swimming lessons and and they'd go into the swimming lessons. And then after swimming lessons, they'd be a bit of free swimming now, perfectly safe because lots of guards and stuff around the swimming pool. But you know, you'd be there going, I wonder when they're going to come out because yeah, a sighted parent could probably pinpoint their key point to them and say, Get out. But you know, my kids didn't like to have a swim and and you just have to be patient. I also, you know, had, you know, you know, my son played football and you know, you do get some also some lovely experiences where, you know, there was a couple of dads that used to take it in turns each week to to accommodate the football. To me, as far as applying, which was, you know, a great deal of fun, I think for them as a as budding announcers, but but also really helpful for me.

Mm-Hmm. Okay. Yeah, I think I think that's right. I mean, I think that, you know, I remember when first taking ice to walk my some of my kids to swimming lessons and and they'd go into the swimming lessons. And then after swimming lessons, they'd be a bit of free swimming now, perfectly safe because lots of guards and stuff around the swimming pool. But you know, you'd be there going, I wonder when they're going to come out because yeah, a sighted parent could probably pinpoint their key point to them and say, Get out. But you know, my kids didn't like to have a swim and and you just have to be patient. I also, you know, had, you know, you know, my son played football and you know, you do get some also some lovely experiences where, you know, there was a couple of dads that used to take it in turns each week to to accommodate the football. To me, as far as applying, which was, you know, a great deal of fun, I think for them as a as budding announcers, but but also really helpful for me.

Oh, okay. And it's touching on that, Chris. So what would you say would be some, some other ways he'd say, you've adapted and I suppose honed in on to balance out the the visual component or the lack thereof?

Oh, okay. And it's touching on that, Chris. So what would you say would be some, some other ways he'd say, you've adapted and I suppose honed in on to balance out the the visual component or the lack thereof?

Well, I think that, you know, I think it is about looking at, you know, things like bike riding. So, you know, we bought a tandem bike so that you could participate in going in on bike rides with with the kids. You know, we look at, you know, playing sort of games that that are accessible. So whether that's a card game or something like that and using braille cards. And then we do, yeah, lots of activities that we can all have fun with. So I do a lot of snow skiing and a lot of like board water skiing. And it's something that the whole family can do. Well, and so with those types of sports, you know, I use a headset that's either, you know, on someone on the boat or with a ski guide, and what it means is that, you know, we can all go and have fun and do that together.

Well, I think that, you know, I think it is about looking at, you know, things like bike riding. So, you know, we bought a tandem bike so that you could participate in going in on bike rides with with the kids. You know, we look at, you know, playing sort of games that that are accessible. So whether that's a card game or something like that and using braille cards. And then we do, yeah, lots of activities that we can all have fun with. So I do a lot of snow skiing and a lot of like board water skiing. And it's something that the whole family can do. Well, and so with those types of sports, you know, I use a headset that's either, you know, on someone on the boat or with a ski guide, and what it means is that, you know, we can all go and have fun and do that together.

Hmm. OK. And Jamie, what about you? What would you say would have been some of the ways you've adapted?

Hmm. OK. And Jamie, what about you? What would you say would have been some of the ways you've adapted?

One of my big memories and one of the real benefits to me was the Vision Australia Library accessing the print picture braille books. I used to read to my kids when they were little, you know, the print braille books that had the overlay braille over the picture. So all those wonderful books, the kids love it, which you spot on those sort of things I used to read to my kids at bedtime. So that was something I was always very thankful for to have access to those sort of materials. And then, of course, I have memories of, you know, the playing monopoly, the, you know, the the braille version, of course, that has large print. So I would all be sitting around the dining room table playing monopoly with braille, which was great. And yeah, a bit similar to Chris to I mean, I've I've got a tandem and I sometimes go for a tandem ride with my my boys, which is great because they all have bike riding. And of course, you know, it's something that I always wanted to be a part of, and tandem riding is a great exercise and a great recreation as well. So the challenges of courses with teenagers sometimes is trying to get them motivated to actually sort of participate in sporting activities and get them away from the computer screen.

One of my big memories and one of the real benefits to me was the Vision Australia Library accessing the print picture braille books. I used to read to my kids when they were little, you know, the print braille books that had the overlay braille over the picture. So all those wonderful books, the kids love it, which you spot on those sort of things I used to read to my kids at bedtime. So that was something I was always very thankful for to have access to those sort of materials. And then, of course, I have memories of, you know, the playing monopoly, the, you know, the the braille version, of course, that has large print. So I would all be sitting around the dining room table playing monopoly with braille, which was great. And yeah, a bit similar to Chris to I mean, I've I've got a tandem and I sometimes go for a tandem ride with my my boys, which is great because they all have bike riding. And of course, you know, it's something that I always wanted to be a part of, and tandem riding is a great exercise and a great recreation as well. So the challenges of courses with teenagers sometimes is trying to get them motivated to actually sort of participate in sporting activities and get them away from the computer screen.

And that concludes the first part of my conversation with Chris Edwards and Jamie Kelly as part of this year's Father's Day panel. I'm Sam Kelly and you're listening to Talking Vision on Vision Australia radio associated stations of our age and the community radio network. If you'd like to find out more about the program, like where to find your local radio frequency or listen to past programs, you can find all this info and more on the Talking Vision web page. Just type talking vision into your search engine, or you can find the program on the podcast app of your choice or through the Vision Australia Library. And now back to the Father's Day panel with Chris and Jamie. Of course, on that, Jamie. What else have you found to be the most challenging aspect that you feel would be unique to a dad who is blind or have low vision? Know how much of an impact would you say your vision had on things there?

And that concludes the first part of my conversation with Chris Edwards and Jamie Kelly as part of this year's Father's Day panel. I'm Sam Kelly and you're listening to Talking Vision on Vision Australia radio associated stations of our age and the community radio network. If you'd like to find out more about the program, like where to find your local radio frequency or listen to past programs, you can find all this info and more on the Talking Vision web page. Just type talking vision into your search engine, or you can find the program on the podcast app of your choice or through the Vision Australia Library. And now back to the Father's Day panel with Chris and Jamie. Of course, on that, Jamie. What else have you found to be the most challenging aspect that you feel would be unique to a dad who is blind or have low vision? Know how much of an impact would you say your vision had on things there?

My kids used to play tricks on me, and they would sort of say, you know, I would hear them doing something, for example, getting something out of the pantry and they'd say that they had and of course, I know that they had. So in other words, it was always a bit of a challenge at times when they'd try and take advantage of your blindness, and they didn't realize house which door switched on. I was a lot of the time I could hear what they were doing in another room, so they thought they were getting away with stuff they couldn't really get away with. So you sort of learn in those sort of skills, and it's just part of the relationship as you, you know, as you grow together, as a family, I think. Hmm.

My kids used to play tricks on me, and they would sort of say, you know, I would hear them doing something, for example, getting something out of the pantry and they'd say that they had and of course, I know that they had. So in other words, it was always a bit of a challenge at times when they'd try and take advantage of your blindness, and they didn't realize house which door switched on. I was a lot of the time I could hear what they were doing in another room, so they thought they were getting away with stuff they couldn't really get away with. So you sort of learn in those sort of skills, and it's just part of the relationship as you, you know, as you grow together, as a family, I think. Hmm.

I think, yeah, sorry. I think you have to. I think you have to also be learn some tolerance, too. You know, I have a talk about a rule in our house that no one can ever put anything back in the same spot twice. So, you know, as a as a blind person, you really like putting stuff in same spot. So it's easy to find, whereas, you know, at my family especially can never put anything back in the same spot twice. You're always hunting for it. And you know, I think that, yeah, now with some modern technologies too, like IRA will be my eyes while things like that. I think that they've been good for me where there's some little task that you know to do without actually having to rely on other members of the family or ask your kids to do something and get them, get it done independently. It sort of takes a bit of pressure off them. And yeah, and you still get get to do what you want. I think one of the interesting things as being a blind parent is you kids tend to and Jamie be had a comment on this kid grow up quite quickly in some areas. So, you know, I know that, you know, right from a very early age, you know, my kids were were very useful in, yeah, in a shop or something like that, trying to find a product if I was in the supermarket with them by themselves. Whereas, you know, a lot of younger kids at that age are much more just relying on their parents as this guy grab something and and they become more aware of how helpful they can be. Mm-Hmm.

I think, yeah, sorry. I think you have to. I think you have to also be learn some tolerance, too. You know, I have a talk about a rule in our house that no one can ever put anything back in the same spot twice. So, you know, as a as a blind person, you really like putting stuff in same spot. So it's easy to find, whereas, you know, at my family especially can never put anything back in the same spot twice. You're always hunting for it. And you know, I think that, yeah, now with some modern technologies too, like IRA will be my eyes while things like that. I think that they've been good for me where there's some little task that you know to do without actually having to rely on other members of the family or ask your kids to do something and get them, get it done independently. It sort of takes a bit of pressure off them. And yeah, and you still get get to do what you want. I think one of the interesting things as being a blind parent is you kids tend to and Jamie be had a comment on this kid grow up quite quickly in some areas. So, you know, I know that, you know, right from a very early age, you know, my kids were were very useful in, yeah, in a shop or something like that, trying to find a product if I was in the supermarket with them by themselves. Whereas, you know, a lot of younger kids at that age are much more just relying on their parents as this guy grab something and and they become more aware of how helpful they can be. Mm-Hmm.

But I find very interesting. Chris and Sam is that I have a bit of a technology sort of benders as my in my role actually with Vision Australia, with the library, but my kids always come to me for technical advice and for support if I need any help with their devices. It's quite amusing, really. You know, I'm totally blind and here they are, you know, probably much more able to me in some ways with some things. But they always come to me with advice when when they're looking to buy a new phone or trying to fix an issue with their computer or something like that.

But I find very interesting. Chris and Sam is that I have a bit of a technology sort of benders as my in my role actually with Vision Australia, with the library, but my kids always come to me for technical advice and for support if I need any help with their devices. It's quite amusing, really. You know, I'm totally blind and here they are, you know, probably much more able to me in some ways with some things. But they always come to me with advice when when they're looking to buy a new phone or trying to fix an issue with their computer or something like that.

Hmm. Okay. They're similar in our household, Jaime.

Hmm. Okay. They're similar in our household, Jaime.

And the other thing I would say, too, is that I'm talking about support workers Sam and Chris. For me, a big life change for me has certainly been the NDIS. And I say that because one of the things one of my goals from the very beginning was to become more independent and not rely so much on on family for sports. So, for example, you know, not relying on white kids to do gardening, being able to take them somewhere without relying on them to, you know, to take the responsibility. So by using a support worker at times, for example, you can go on little sort of outings or go to Auskick or a sporting event or something like that and you've got supports. And I found that really valuable sort of, you know, teaching my kids, well, I'm I'm a blind dad. I'm not depending on you for support. I'm on I. I create my own sort of support and independence. Mm-Hmm.

And the other thing I would say, too, is that I'm talking about support workers Sam and Chris. For me, a big life change for me has certainly been the NDIS. And I say that because one of the things one of my goals from the very beginning was to become more independent and not rely so much on on family for sports. So, for example, you know, not relying on white kids to do gardening, being able to take them somewhere without relying on them to, you know, to take the responsibility. So by using a support worker at times, for example, you can go on little sort of outings or go to Auskick or a sporting event or something like that and you've got supports. And I found that really valuable sort of, you know, teaching my kids, well, I'm I'm a blind dad. I'm not depending on you for support. I'm on I. I create my own sort of support and independence. Mm-Hmm.

Okay. And on that topic, Chris, some what's been a good support for you and your time as a dad? What have you found helpful?

Okay. And on that topic, Chris, some what's been a good support for you and your time as a dad? What have you found helpful?

Well, I certainly would agree with Jaime that the NDIS has been a life changer. You know, I think that, yeah, the ability to not have to rely on your family to do simple things has been absolutely fabulous. And I think but. And so that means, you know, the things that you're doing with your family are more family orientated activities as opposed to, you know, support activities as a blind person. And so I think that 100 percent agree with Jamie that it is a life changer. And and, you know, it's such a fabulous thing that is available to blind people now. I I think that the yeah, the support that I have, you know, are probably fairly simple. I mean, you know, I use, you know, a seeing eye dog. And all the various associated assistive technologies to be able to read and write and and do things that that just enable may to remain. Yeah, like an independent power as opposed to a father that relies on on others. And I think that, you know, it's great doing things, you know, whether it's something around the house where, you know, I like building things that you know, you can use the various assistive technology used to be able to do that independently and get your kids involved in in building things and but not in a way that you know, they have to be there and have to rely on it. They can come in and be involved as much as they want.

Well, I certainly would agree with Jaime that the NDIS has been a life changer. You know, I think that, yeah, the ability to not have to rely on your family to do simple things has been absolutely fabulous. And I think but. And so that means, you know, the things that you're doing with your family are more family orientated activities as opposed to, you know, support activities as a blind person. And so I think that 100 percent agree with Jamie that it is a life changer. And and, you know, it's such a fabulous thing that is available to blind people now. I I think that the yeah, the support that I have, you know, are probably fairly simple. I mean, you know, I use, you know, a seeing eye dog. And all the various associated assistive technologies to be able to read and write and and do things that that just enable may to remain. Yeah, like an independent power as opposed to a father that relies on on others. And I think that, you know, it's great doing things, you know, whether it's something around the house where, you know, I like building things that you know, you can use the various assistive technology used to be able to do that independently and get your kids involved in in building things and but not in a way that you know, they have to be there and have to rely on it. They can come in and be involved as much as they want.

And Chris, did you have a specific conversation with your kids about being blind or having low vision? Or did it just sort of naturally happen?

And Chris, did you have a specific conversation with your kids about being blind or having low vision? Or did it just sort of naturally happen?

Yeah, it's a really good question, Sam. I don't recall ever having sort of that discussion. I mean, I think that, you know, it's like a lot of the things as when, when you're around somebody who's blind after a while, you don't actually recognize they're blind. They just that's who they are. And and so, you know, I think that, you know, it would be quite strange for my kids to say, be excited because, yeah, that's you know, I'm not that person. And and, you know, because, you know, I'm still fairly active and do a whole range of sports and and activities and work and do all those sorts of things. You know, I think the kids just yet see me as dad.

Yeah, it's a really good question, Sam. I don't recall ever having sort of that discussion. I mean, I think that, you know, it's like a lot of the things as when, when you're around somebody who's blind after a while, you don't actually recognize they're blind. They just that's who they are. And and so, you know, I think that, you know, it would be quite strange for my kids to say, be excited because, yeah, that's you know, I'm not that person. And and, you know, because, you know, I'm still fairly active and do a whole range of sports and and activities and work and do all those sorts of things. You know, I think the kids just yet see me as dad.

Mm hmm. Jamie, how about you? What some? What's your perspective?

Mm hmm. Jamie, how about you? What some? What's your perspective?

I never actually had a conversation. As such, I do remember having conversations around and dad, if you could have bionic eyes tomorrow, would you take them? And I say no, and I never understand that. Well, I'm quite happy with who I am in the way that I am. And then I also sort of talked about or have talked about, you know, how I how I went blind, the fact that I was 13 weeks frame. I have newspaper articles of, you know, when I was born and some home movies and things like that because, you know, at the time when I was born, I was, you know, extremely prim and I was lucky to survive. So you know that that was sort of interesting to my kids. I think more so than, you know, trying to sort of understand the blindness. And as Christians, you know, it just sort of evolves and they adapt. And I still have daily discussions with my kids, too, about putting things back in the same place and, you know, leave the milk in the same place and all that sort of thing. Or because we just need things to be that there needs to be some modifications to accommodate, you know, things. And I always say to them, Look, I know that, you know, when you move out into your own place, you can live here. You like it here, you need to be accommodating.

I never actually had a conversation. As such, I do remember having conversations around and dad, if you could have bionic eyes tomorrow, would you take them? And I say no, and I never understand that. Well, I'm quite happy with who I am in the way that I am. And then I also sort of talked about or have talked about, you know, how I how I went blind, the fact that I was 13 weeks frame. I have newspaper articles of, you know, when I was born and some home movies and things like that because, you know, at the time when I was born, I was, you know, extremely prim and I was lucky to survive. So you know that that was sort of interesting to my kids. I think more so than, you know, trying to sort of understand the blindness. And as Christians, you know, it just sort of evolves and they adapt. And I still have daily discussions with my kids, too, about putting things back in the same place and, you know, leave the milk in the same place and all that sort of thing. Or because we just need things to be that there needs to be some modifications to accommodate, you know, things. And I always say to them, Look, I know that, you know, when you move out into your own place, you can live here. You like it here, you need to be accommodating.

Hmm. I'm slightly. And Jamie, what technology that you wish existed when you were a new dad, or at least when your kids were younger, that you think would have helped?

Hmm. I'm slightly. And Jamie, what technology that you wish existed when you were a new dad, or at least when your kids were younger, that you think would have helped?

Well, at the time, you don't know what you don't know, but looking back, I certainly wish there were things like IRA because that would have made a huge difference to me and a whole lot of lies. And also, like the smart phones that we have now, we can do so much on our phones. You don't even need to have a computer. I mean, I did my text the other day on my iPhone with the Itio app, for example. And I always used to struggle that a little bit on the computer with jaws. So it's a bit like I was thinking the other day, you know, when I first started work, we had a computer terminal was using was it would ninety five or something like that? And in the office sort of memos were folders being passed around bits of paper that I couldn't read, you know, and now it's all so different.

Well, at the time, you don't know what you don't know, but looking back, I certainly wish there were things like IRA because that would have made a huge difference to me and a whole lot of lies. And also, like the smart phones that we have now, we can do so much on our phones. You don't even need to have a computer. I mean, I did my text the other day on my iPhone with the Itio app, for example. And I always used to struggle that a little bit on the computer with jaws. So it's a bit like I was thinking the other day, you know, when I first started work, we had a computer terminal was using was it would ninety five or something like that? And in the office sort of memos were folders being passed around bits of paper that I couldn't read, you know, and now it's all so different.

Hmm. And Chris, what about you?

Hmm. And Chris, what about you?

Oh, I think I can't think of anything that Jamie hasn't really talked about. I mean, you know, I certainly do love all my smart home devices that you can talk to and and, you know, get things done. And because it's I think it's the technologies that we take for granted these days as people who are buying television that that again help you do stuff that doesn't rely on. Yeah, you know, sort of putting pressure on your family to be able to to support you. And then and then what that means is that, you know, you can enjoy family time as opposed to, you know, you know, doing practical things. So, you know, we wait way, do yeah, we do a little cooking. And you know, I do just as much cooking as is other people in the family. And, you know, I think that it's just, you know, using all the technologies that are available for people to remain independent.

Oh, I think I can't think of anything that Jamie hasn't really talked about. I mean, you know, I certainly do love all my smart home devices that you can talk to and and, you know, get things done. And because it's I think it's the technologies that we take for granted these days as people who are buying television that that again help you do stuff that doesn't rely on. Yeah, you know, sort of putting pressure on your family to be able to to support you. And then and then what that means is that, you know, you can enjoy family time as opposed to, you know, you know, doing practical things. So, you know, we wait way, do yeah, we do a little cooking. And you know, I do just as much cooking as is other people in the family. And, you know, I think that it's just, you know, using all the technologies that are available for people to remain independent.

OK. And finally, on a on a quite a positive note, what what would you say was has been the most rewarding aspect of being a dad, Chris, did you want to go first?

OK. And finally, on a on a quite a positive note, what what would you say was has been the most rewarding aspect of being a dad, Chris, did you want to go first?

Look, I mean, I think that every part you know, when I talk to new parents, you know, I say, that's a lovely age, but you know, what what you find is that h age is a lovely age and and you know the how kids are great. Such a great support in so many ways that that enrich life. It's it's just. Yeah, it's very blessed situation to be a father.

Look, I mean, I think that every part you know, when I talk to new parents, you know, I say, that's a lovely age, but you know, what what you find is that h age is a lovely age and and you know the how kids are great. Such a great support in so many ways that that enrich life. It's it's just. Yeah, it's very blessed situation to be a father.

Yes, I would agree with that. I know as you get older, you appreciate having just the fact that you do have a family and I think of people in these current times of lockdown. And I speak to so many of our clients who live on their own, for example, who may not have family support and that sort of thing. And I mean, I feel so fortunate compared to so many people to have that sort of support. And also, as Chris said, I really enjoyed all the various ideas that my kids sort of went through growing up some more than others in some ways. But you do appreciate little things, and when they're older, you look back and think, Oh, remember when you know when he was sort of five and you used to do this or do that? One of the things I used to do, which always used to embarrass my kids and other people, was I used to identify where they were by touching the top of their head, so I could tell by the head and the hair which one it was. You know, that's how I used to identify who which boy was it? I was sort of next to or if I want to know who they were, you know, I just had that at the top of their that they are, you know? But now it is really an enriching experience. And I also know from my own parents, my parents are both still alive and and, you know, as they get older, my brothers and sisters are supporting them more with their various sort of ailments and things like that.

Yes, I would agree with that. I know as you get older, you appreciate having just the fact that you do have a family and I think of people in these current times of lockdown. And I speak to so many of our clients who live on their own, for example, who may not have family support and that sort of thing. And I mean, I feel so fortunate compared to so many people to have that sort of support. And also, as Chris said, I really enjoyed all the various ideas that my kids sort of went through growing up some more than others in some ways. But you do appreciate little things, and when they're older, you look back and think, Oh, remember when you know when he was sort of five and you used to do this or do that? One of the things I used to do, which always used to embarrass my kids and other people, was I used to identify where they were by touching the top of their head, so I could tell by the head and the hair which one it was. You know, that's how I used to identify who which boy was it? I was sort of next to or if I want to know who they were, you know, I just had that at the top of their that they are, you know? But now it is really an enriching experience. And I also know from my own parents, my parents are both still alive and and, you know, as they get older, my brothers and sisters are supporting them more with their various sort of ailments and things like that.

Hmm. Okay. Well, it was great chatting with you both today. That was Chris Edwards and Jamie Kelly. They're taking part in the Father's Day panel. Now, before we wrap up this week, a couple of pieces of news and information, so firstly, Vision Australia is conducting a survey into the impact of e-scooters and other devices on footpaths for people who are blind or have low vision, and we would love your feedback. The feedback you provide through this survey will help us to advocate more effectively to government the transport sector and the community about the needs and experiences of people who are blind or have low vision. You can access the survey through the SurveyMonkey website at SurveyMonkey dot com slash R slash R Casey and W. J. So that's SurveyMonkey dot com slash R slash R Casey, M and W J, and you can have your say there. And if you are having trouble accessing the survey, feel free to give Vision Australia a wing on one 300 eight four seven four double six and they'll be sure to help you out. Also exciting developments at the Australian Human Rights Commission. They're pleased to announce the launch of their Include Ability website, which launched earlier this month, actually. The website is a key part of the broader Include Ability initiative, which they've kicked off recently. The Included Ability Initiative aims to promote and champion meaningful employment for people with disability. And as we all know, the employment of people with disability is a crucial critical human rights issue and benefits individuals with disability. Employers and the entire community and employers of choice should be inclusive and diverse. They include ability website hosts a series of publicly available guides, fact sheets and other resources to support people with disabilities seeking employment. Developing a career or considering self-employment and employers who want to create meaningful employment opportunities for people with disability in addition to these resources. The website also provides information on the other components of the included ability initiative, such as the employer network and the Ambassador Advisory Group. The Commission encourages you to explore the website and to share with your family and friends to have a look. You can find the website at included ability. Dot gov. Dot use so that the words include and ability or one word. Dot gov. Dot a you and that's all I have time for today. You've been listening to Talking Vision. Talking Vision is a production of Vision Australia radio. Thanks to all involved with putting the program together. And remember, we love your feedback and comments. You can contact us at Talking Vision at Vision Australia dot org that's talking vision or one word at Vision Australia dot org. But until next week, it's bye for now.

Hmm. Okay. Well, it was great chatting with you both today. That was Chris Edwards and Jamie Kelly. They're taking part in the Father's Day panel. Now, before we wrap up this week, a couple of pieces of news and information, so firstly, Vision Australia is conducting a survey into the impact of e-scooters and other devices on footpaths for people who are blind or have low vision, and we would love your feedback. The feedback you provide through this survey will help us to advocate more effectively to government the transport sector and the community about the needs and experiences of people who are blind or have low vision. You can access the survey through the SurveyMonkey website at SurveyMonkey dot com slash R slash R Casey and W. J. So that's SurveyMonkey dot com slash R slash R Casey, M and W J, and you can have your say there. And if you are having trouble accessing the survey, feel free to give Vision Australia a wing on one 300 eight four seven four double six and they'll be sure to help you out. Also exciting developments at the Australian Human Rights Commission. They're pleased to announce the launch of their Include Ability website, which launched earlier this month, actually. The website is a key part of the broader Include Ability initiative, which they've kicked off recently. The Included Ability Initiative aims to promote and champion meaningful employment for people with disability. And as we all know, the employment of people with disability is a crucial critical human rights issue and benefits individuals with disability. Employers and the entire community and employers of choice should be inclusive and diverse. They include ability website hosts a series of publicly available guides, fact sheets and other resources to support people with disabilities seeking employment. Developing a career or considering self-employment and employers who want to create meaningful employment opportunities for people with disability in addition to these resources. The website also provides information on the other components of the included ability initiative, such as the employer network and the Ambassador Advisory Group. The Commission encourages you to explore the website and to share with your family and friends to have a look. You can find the website at included ability. Dot gov. Dot use so that the words include and ability or one word. Dot gov. Dot a you and that's all I have time for today. You've been listening to Talking Vision. Talking Vision is a production of Vision Australia radio. Thanks to all involved with putting the program together. And remember, we love your feedback and comments. You can contact us at Talking Vision at Vision Australia dot org that's talking vision or one word at Vision Australia dot org. But until next week, it's bye for now.

You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during business hours on 103000 eight four seven four six. That's one three eight four seven four double six or by visiting Vision Australia dot org. That's Vision Australia dot all.

You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during business hours on 103000 eight four seven four six. That's one three eight four seven four double six or by visiting Vision Australia dot org. That's Vision Australia dot all.