From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam Colley.

From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam Colley.

Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness and low vision.

Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness and low vision.

For me personally, I feel like all blind children. And, you know, also sighted children should be given opportunities to explore a range of media types and then be allowed to continue their education in the one that suits their learning style the best. And this is an attitude that I have encountered among a lot of people who were taught Braille. They feel really lucky to have had the same kind of experience as teaching a sighted person. So you learn the word and you learn the letters and you see them all at the same time. You perceive them all at the same time.

For me personally, I feel like all blind children. And, you know, also sighted children should be given opportunities to explore a range of media types and then be allowed to continue their education in the one that suits their learning style the best. And this is an attitude that I have encountered among a lot of people who were taught Braille. They feel really lucky to have had the same kind of experience as teaching a sighted person. So you learn the word and you learn the letters and you see them all at the same time. You perceive them all at the same time.

Welcome to Welcome to this special World Braille Day edition of Talking Vision, where we celebrate awareness of the importance of Braille as a means of communication in the full realization of human rights for people who are blind or have low vision. This year, we're celebrating the 200th anniversary of Braille, and to mark the occasion, I'm joined this year by Tristan Claire, the chair of the Australian Braille Authority and publications officer for Next Sense, as well as Jordy Howell, a favorite of ours on talking Vision who's a transcriber of Braille music at Vision Australia and has a long association with the Braille music camps in Mittagong. So, without further ado, let's get into it as we celebrate World Braille Day. On this week's episode of Talking vision. I began by asking Tristan to give a brief history of Braille and go back to 200 years ago to when it all began.

Welcome to Welcome to this special World Braille Day edition of Talking Vision, where we celebrate awareness of the importance of Braille as a means of communication in the full realization of human rights for people who are blind or have low vision. This year, we're celebrating the 200th anniversary of Braille, and to mark the occasion, I'm joined this year by Tristan Claire, the chair of the Australian Braille Authority and publications officer for Next Sense, as well as Jordy Howell, a favorite of ours on talking Vision who's a transcriber of Braille music at Vision Australia and has a long association with the Braille music camps in Mittagong. So, without further ado, let's get into it as we celebrate World Braille Day. On this week's episode of Talking vision. I began by asking Tristan to give a brief history of Braille and go back to 200 years ago to when it all began.

Okay, so it was invented by Louis Braille, who was a blind teenager from France, and I think he did it to address inadequacies in the writing systems that were current at the time, because they were based on print, because that was what sighted people could use. And print is lovely if you're reading it with the eyes because it's curved and you can have it very, very small. But if you're trying to detect print with your fingers, you have to have it very large. So the books at that time were quite bulky, and they also weren't standardized. So interlibrary loans was not going to be a thing between different schools for the blind. So Louis invented Braille back in. So the birth of Braille is, uh, summer of 1824 to the summer of 1825, because it was in that school year. So, you know, the European school year. And the beauty of Braille is that it is rectangular. So it's a rectangular cell with six dots, which means that it's it's very good for reading with the fingers, so you can fit a fairly small cell under a fingertip and be able to detect it easily.

Okay, so it was invented by Louis Braille, who was a blind teenager from France, and I think he did it to address inadequacies in the writing systems that were current at the time, because they were based on print, because that was what sighted people could use. And print is lovely if you're reading it with the eyes because it's curved and you can have it very, very small. But if you're trying to detect print with your fingers, you have to have it very large. So the books at that time were quite bulky, and they also weren't standardized. So interlibrary loans was not going to be a thing between different schools for the blind. So Louis invented Braille back in. So the birth of Braille is, uh, summer of 1824 to the summer of 1825, because it was in that school year. So, you know, the European school year. And the beauty of Braille is that it is rectangular. So it's a rectangular cell with six dots, which means that it's it's very good for reading with the fingers, so you can fit a fairly small cell under a fingertip and be able to detect it easily.

And we're covering quite a few corners of the Braille world, I guess you'd call it. So here we're sort of just talking a little bit about Braille a bit more generally, but let's have a chat about some of the changes in Braille over the past 200 years. Now, with the advent of technology in the 20th century, you know, accessibility of Braille has really come on in, you know, leaps and bounds, hasn't it, Tristan? with computers coming into people's lives a lot more these days, especially now with the internet and everything like that. So let's jump into the advances in Braille and the advances in technology, because there's so much to talk about there.

And we're covering quite a few corners of the Braille world, I guess you'd call it. So here we're sort of just talking a little bit about Braille a bit more generally, but let's have a chat about some of the changes in Braille over the past 200 years. Now, with the advent of technology in the 20th century, you know, accessibility of Braille has really come on in, you know, leaps and bounds, hasn't it, Tristan? with computers coming into people's lives a lot more these days, especially now with the internet and everything like that. So let's jump into the advances in Braille and the advances in technology, because there's so much to talk about there.

Oh there is I could probably go on all day about that.

Oh there is I could probably go on all day about that.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Perfect. That's exactly what we want to hear.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Perfect. That's exactly what we want to hear.

Yeah. So when I was growing up in the 80s, Braille was produced using Perkins Brailler, and it was bulky Braille books. And this is what the general public still think of when they think of Braille. So they, you know, the the great big square books, one chapter per volume. They're difficult to carry. They don't contain much reading material. So a lot of people think that technology is making Braille superfluous and that it's going to be a replacement. But actually that couldn't be further from the truth. So refreshable braille technology, which is braille displays. It's becoming more affordable than it has ever been. And there's also a variety of input options depending on whether you prefer Braille or a Qwerty keyboard. And um, because Braille displays, they're more affordable and they're compatible with mainstream products such as laptops and phones. So you can access your favorite apps and text with Braille on the go. So technology isn't making Braille obsolete. It is actually enhancing the Braille reading experience and making it more relevant than ever, because you can access it. And it's very portable and very it's very easy to pair a Braille display with a mainstream technology these days. So it's really awesome.

Yeah. So when I was growing up in the 80s, Braille was produced using Perkins Brailler, and it was bulky Braille books. And this is what the general public still think of when they think of Braille. So they, you know, the the great big square books, one chapter per volume. They're difficult to carry. They don't contain much reading material. So a lot of people think that technology is making Braille superfluous and that it's going to be a replacement. But actually that couldn't be further from the truth. So refreshable braille technology, which is braille displays. It's becoming more affordable than it has ever been. And there's also a variety of input options depending on whether you prefer Braille or a Qwerty keyboard. And um, because Braille displays, they're more affordable and they're compatible with mainstream products such as laptops and phones. So you can access your favorite apps and text with Braille on the go. So technology isn't making Braille obsolete. It is actually enhancing the Braille reading experience and making it more relevant than ever, because you can access it. And it's very portable and very it's very easy to pair a Braille display with a mainstream technology these days. So it's really awesome.

As a Braille user yourself, what's really personally been something you've absolutely loved having access to in terms of having the Braille at your fingertips and really opening up other sort of worlds in terms of where you can take it and how you can access it, what sort of technologies really open those sort of doors for you.

As a Braille user yourself, what's really personally been something you've absolutely loved having access to in terms of having the Braille at your fingertips and really opening up other sort of worlds in terms of where you can take it and how you can access it, what sort of technologies really open those sort of doors for you.

I have a mantis Q40, and I like it because it has the Querty keyboard input, so I use this for work. I don't particularly want to endorse one braille display over another because for everyone it's going to be different. Yeah, but having something where I can use it as a keyboard as well as braille output, means that it has streamlined my working the space that that it takes up on my desk. So I use the keyboard and the braille display at the same time, and I don't have a separate keyboard, so I've enjoyed that. But really, what I've enjoyed is being able to have like hundreds of files on my device. And basically I can carry my library anywhere with me. It's like having a Kindle. So if I want to read a book, I can take can take it away with me. When I was growing up and we had Braille in large books. I could take a volume of a book away on holidays. Can you imagine a six week holiday away and you have one volume of the same book, and that's all you have to read. So being having that portability, being able to say, I'm reading a post by someone and I'm on Facebook or whatever, and I need to know the spelling of an unusual word. I have that information right there, because I can turn the braille display on and have it interact with my phone. So interact with the iOS app and just be able to quickly have that information without having to interrupt the flow of my reading to read it by character.

I have a mantis Q40, and I like it because it has the Querty keyboard input, so I use this for work. I don't particularly want to endorse one braille display over another because for everyone it's going to be different. Yeah, but having something where I can use it as a keyboard as well as braille output, means that it has streamlined my working the space that that it takes up on my desk. So I use the keyboard and the braille display at the same time, and I don't have a separate keyboard, so I've enjoyed that. But really, what I've enjoyed is being able to have like hundreds of files on my device. And basically I can carry my library anywhere with me. It's like having a Kindle. So if I want to read a book, I can take can take it away with me. When I was growing up and we had Braille in large books. I could take a volume of a book away on holidays. Can you imagine a six week holiday away and you have one volume of the same book, and that's all you have to read. So being having that portability, being able to say, I'm reading a post by someone and I'm on Facebook or whatever, and I need to know the spelling of an unusual word. I have that information right there, because I can turn the braille display on and have it interact with my phone. So interact with the iOS app and just be able to quickly have that information without having to interrupt the flow of my reading to read it by character.

Let's go a bit broader now, Tristan, and go into. Well, this is a very broad philosophical question, but why is Braille so important to people around the world and through generations? That's a very worldly kind of broad question, and it might be a bit tricky to answer, but what's your personal outlook on that sort of thing?

Let's go a bit broader now, Tristan, and go into. Well, this is a very broad philosophical question, but why is Braille so important to people around the world and through generations? That's a very worldly kind of broad question, and it might be a bit tricky to answer, but what's your personal outlook on that sort of thing?

I'm glad you asked me that. Western countries still place a high premium on the written word in education. I would hesitate to say that people who can't read Braille are illiterate. I think it's an inflammatory word that creates unnecessary divisions in our community, because there are all kinds of reasons why some blind people can't access Braille, and for them, audio is a good option. However, until all sighted children are also taught audio only, it's not fair to place this restriction on blind children. Some will be natural audio learners and they'll gravitate to that. And that's okay. But if you deny a whole subsection of society the right to interact with a written code, not because it's the best way to teach literacy, but because it isn't deemed worth the time or the old money. Then you can risk creating educational marginalisation of people who are already dealing with systemic disadvantage and oppression. I was lucky enough to be introduced to Braille at a young age, so being able to physically read letters and words on a page and later on a refreshable braille display really suited my learning style. So concepts such as spelling and word building felt really organic when I was reading Braille in a way that they wouldn't have been for me if I'd been taught audio only. I have a photographic memory for Braille text that doesn't compare with my experiences with audio or text to speech. So for me personally, I feel like all blind children and even, you know, also sighted children should be given opportunities to explore a range of media types and then be allowed to continue their education in the one that suits their learning style the best. And this is an attitude that I have encountered among a lot of people who were taught Braille. They feel really lucky to have had the same kind of experience as teaching a sighted person. So you learn the word and you learn the letters, and you see them all at the same time. You perceive them all at the same time. So if I'm reading a word in Braille, I have the whole word. I have the way the word is built and the spelling, and that I don't have to interrupt the flow of my reading in order to glean that information.

I'm glad you asked me that. Western countries still place a high premium on the written word in education. I would hesitate to say that people who can't read Braille are illiterate. I think it's an inflammatory word that creates unnecessary divisions in our community, because there are all kinds of reasons why some blind people can't access Braille, and for them, audio is a good option. However, until all sighted children are also taught audio only, it's not fair to place this restriction on blind children. Some will be natural audio learners and they'll gravitate to that. And that's okay. But if you deny a whole subsection of society the right to interact with a written code, not because it's the best way to teach literacy, but because it isn't deemed worth the time or the old money. Then you can risk creating educational marginalisation of people who are already dealing with systemic disadvantage and oppression. I was lucky enough to be introduced to Braille at a young age, so being able to physically read letters and words on a page and later on a refreshable braille display really suited my learning style. So concepts such as spelling and word building felt really organic when I was reading Braille in a way that they wouldn't have been for me if I'd been taught audio only. I have a photographic memory for Braille text that doesn't compare with my experiences with audio or text to speech. So for me personally, I feel like all blind children and even, you know, also sighted children should be given opportunities to explore a range of media types and then be allowed to continue their education in the one that suits their learning style the best. And this is an attitude that I have encountered among a lot of people who were taught Braille. They feel really lucky to have had the same kind of experience as teaching a sighted person. So you learn the word and you learn the letters, and you see them all at the same time. You perceive them all at the same time. So if I'm reading a word in Braille, I have the whole word. I have the way the word is built and the spelling, and that I don't have to interrupt the flow of my reading in order to glean that information.

And, Tristan, I understand there's something quite exciting coming up in a couple of weeks time. Tell us all about that.

And, Tristan, I understand there's something quite exciting coming up in a couple of weeks time. Tell us all about that.

Yes, there is Sam. So, Spivey, the South Pacific educators in Vision Impairment are holding their annual conference in January, and they have a really exciting end to the conference planned. So on Thursday, the 16th of January, a bunch of us are going to be at Post Office Square in Brisbane City doing some Braille awareness will be there between 8 a.m. and 11 a.m. on the Thursday, and there's going to be some Braille technology demonstrations and some Braille cards. And it looks like it's going to be a really exciting day. So if anyone in the Brisbane area has some free time and would like to come and see us Post Office Square 8 a.m. to 11 a.m. on the Thursday, we've got a bunch of booths with Braille awareness stuff.

Yes, there is Sam. So, Spivey, the South Pacific educators in Vision Impairment are holding their annual conference in January, and they have a really exciting end to the conference planned. So on Thursday, the 16th of January, a bunch of us are going to be at Post Office Square in Brisbane City doing some Braille awareness will be there between 8 a.m. and 11 a.m. on the Thursday, and there's going to be some Braille technology demonstrations and some Braille cards. And it looks like it's going to be a really exciting day. So if anyone in the Brisbane area has some free time and would like to come and see us Post Office Square 8 a.m. to 11 a.m. on the Thursday, we've got a bunch of booths with Braille awareness stuff.

Yeah. Perfect. Cool. And following on from that, Tristan, I think it's really exciting to be here to celebrate the 200th anniversary of Braille, and you've already gone into great detail about what it means to the community and why it is so important and has been so important for the past two centuries. So finally, to wrap up, what does that mean to you to be involved in such a huge milestone and, you know, celebrate something that's so central to connecting you with so many parts of your life.

Yeah. Perfect. Cool. And following on from that, Tristan, I think it's really exciting to be here to celebrate the 200th anniversary of Braille, and you've already gone into great detail about what it means to the community and why it is so important and has been so important for the past two centuries. So finally, to wrap up, what does that mean to you to be involved in such a huge milestone and, you know, celebrate something that's so central to connecting you with so many parts of your life.

Well, it's quite special. Actually, it's a bit of a privilege to be around at this time and to know that this was invented by a blind person. He built on existing codes and writing systems that had been invented by other people. And absolutely, we appreciate other allies and the work they do. But it is so cool that a blind person invented a code that was so intuitive that it has caught on around the world, and it's now the gold standard for writing systems for blind children. And that is very cool. You know, it would be great if we could enter an era where we could take that for granted, where it didn't have to be special. You know, like nobody celebrates the birthday of print because it's so ubiquitous and it's just out there. But until people recognize that Braille is the right of people to read Braille. And until it's not under threat, it is good to celebrate the people that invented it. And yeah, so it it is it's great to be around at such a massive anniversary.

Well, it's quite special. Actually, it's a bit of a privilege to be around at this time and to know that this was invented by a blind person. He built on existing codes and writing systems that had been invented by other people. And absolutely, we appreciate other allies and the work they do. But it is so cool that a blind person invented a code that was so intuitive that it has caught on around the world, and it's now the gold standard for writing systems for blind children. And that is very cool. You know, it would be great if we could enter an era where we could take that for granted, where it didn't have to be special. You know, like nobody celebrates the birthday of print because it's so ubiquitous and it's just out there. But until people recognize that Braille is the right of people to read Braille. And until it's not under threat, it is good to celebrate the people that invented it. And yeah, so it it is it's great to be around at such a massive anniversary.

Well, that's a wonderful note to end on. Tristan, thank you so much today for having a chat with me. I've been speaking today with Tristan Claire, chair of the Australian Braille Authority and publications officer at Next Sense. Here to chat with me all about the 200th anniversary of Braille as we celebrate World Braille Day. I'm Sam Corley, and you're listening to this special World Braille Day edition of Talking Vision. On Vision Australia radio associated stations of Reading Radio and the Community Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed that conversation there with Tristan Claire. Coming up now, it's my great pleasure to welcome Geordie Howell to the program. I began by asking Geordie to give a brief overview of Braille music for people out there.

Well, that's a wonderful note to end on. Tristan, thank you so much today for having a chat with me. I've been speaking today with Tristan Claire, chair of the Australian Braille Authority and publications officer at Next Sense. Here to chat with me all about the 200th anniversary of Braille as we celebrate World Braille Day. I'm Sam Corley, and you're listening to this special World Braille Day edition of Talking Vision. On Vision Australia radio associated stations of Reading Radio and the Community Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed that conversation there with Tristan Claire. Coming up now, it's my great pleasure to welcome Geordie Howell to the program. I began by asking Geordie to give a brief overview of Braille music for people out there.

To the untrained eye or finger, Braille music just looks like standard braille dots on a page. For those that know Braille and you know that it's divided into cells of between 1 and 6 dots in each character that looks a bit like a dice or domino. The top four dots represent the pitch in Braille music. For example, Louis Braille, who invented Braille music, was a Frenchman. So we start with dough or the letter D and the quavers or eighth notes in Braille music in pitch are the letters d, e, f, g, h, I, j. Which makes no sense at all, really. But those are the notes c, d, e, f g a, b. The bottom dots give us rhythm. So the bottom left dot gives us a minimum duration or two counts. Or if you add the bottom right ..6 that gives us one count or crotchet notes. We can have all dynamics which is louds and softs articulation, which is how short or sharp to play a note. And everything can be included in Braille music, and we can have all different formats vocal music, piano music, orchestral scores, guitar music, whatever you like can be produced for you.

To the untrained eye or finger, Braille music just looks like standard braille dots on a page. For those that know Braille and you know that it's divided into cells of between 1 and 6 dots in each character that looks a bit like a dice or domino. The top four dots represent the pitch in Braille music. For example, Louis Braille, who invented Braille music, was a Frenchman. So we start with dough or the letter D and the quavers or eighth notes in Braille music in pitch are the letters d, e, f, g, h, I, j. Which makes no sense at all, really. But those are the notes c, d, e, f g a, b. The bottom dots give us rhythm. So the bottom left dot gives us a minimum duration or two counts. Or if you add the bottom right ..6 that gives us one count or crotchet notes. We can have all dynamics which is louds and softs articulation, which is how short or sharp to play a note. And everything can be included in Braille music, and we can have all different formats vocal music, piano music, orchestral scores, guitar music, whatever you like can be produced for you.

There's so much in there that is encapsulated within, you know, how to do dynamics, how to do tempos, all that sort of thing. It's just endless possibilities that can be brought about with Braille music. So that's also a fantastic aspect to it. But people may be wondering, how do people play along with Biomusic. That might be something that's quite interesting for people out there. I know that's a question that's come up a little bit.

There's so much in there that is encapsulated within, you know, how to do dynamics, how to do tempos, all that sort of thing. It's just endless possibilities that can be brought about with Braille music. So that's also a fantastic aspect to it. But people may be wondering, how do people play along with Biomusic. That might be something that's quite interesting for people out there. I know that's a question that's come up a little bit.

Yes. Well, if you're a vocalist, you've got it easy really, because you have access to two hands while you're singing. And in Braille music, the vocal line or the lyrics rather are written in the margin above the music, which is indented to the third space. So you can feel, because there's a slight indent where the music starts and you can have one hand on the music if you're a two handed Braille reader. So perhaps that's your right hand, and your left hand might start reading the music. Your right hand might come down and join it at some point. If you're an instrumentalist, this is where you can't really sight read. But what you can do is if you're a pianist, for example, learn the first bar of the right hand, read with your left hand while playing with your right, and then switch your hands around. So while you're reading with your right hand, you can play with your left hand, read the bar, count it out, learn it, and then you have to put it together by memory. A lot more memory work for an instrumentalist. If you're a flute player or a violin, you might have your Braille music book sitting on a stand close by. Hold your instrument. Play a bit, pop it down. Reach over and learn the next couple of bars so you've got to be a bit more, I suppose, resourceful in that regard. And I think it's much easier if you are a two handed Braille reader when you're reading Braille music, particularly for piano or vocal music.

Yes. Well, if you're a vocalist, you've got it easy really, because you have access to two hands while you're singing. And in Braille music, the vocal line or the lyrics rather are written in the margin above the music, which is indented to the third space. So you can feel, because there's a slight indent where the music starts and you can have one hand on the music if you're a two handed Braille reader. So perhaps that's your right hand, and your left hand might start reading the music. Your right hand might come down and join it at some point. If you're an instrumentalist, this is where you can't really sight read. But what you can do is if you're a pianist, for example, learn the first bar of the right hand, read with your left hand while playing with your right, and then switch your hands around. So while you're reading with your right hand, you can play with your left hand, read the bar, count it out, learn it, and then you have to put it together by memory. A lot more memory work for an instrumentalist. If you're a flute player or a violin, you might have your Braille music book sitting on a stand close by. Hold your instrument. Play a bit, pop it down. Reach over and learn the next couple of bars so you've got to be a bit more, I suppose, resourceful in that regard. And I think it's much easier if you are a two handed Braille reader when you're reading Braille music, particularly for piano or vocal music.

Absolutely. Well, it's a bit of a process, but it is certainly something that's quite intuitive. That's the most important thing. And part of that was because of the fact that Louis Braille himself was a musician and put together Braille music himself at the time. So tell us a little bit about the early history there.

Absolutely. Well, it's a bit of a process, but it is certainly something that's quite intuitive. That's the most important thing. And part of that was because of the fact that Louis Braille himself was a musician and put together Braille music himself at the time. So tell us a little bit about the early history there.

Yeah. So Louis Braille lost his sight. And as you probably most of the listeners will be familiar with the story of Louis Braille having an accident at the age of three in his father's leatherworking workshop and losing the sight in one eye and the infection spreading to both eyes. So a lot of his school education was done at a blind school. And I guess for blind people, music is often fostered and nurtured. And Louis Braille was a gifted cellist and organist, played for the church services there. And he, as well as inventing a literary braille code, invented the music code. So all of these signs that we know and love today are because of Louis Braille. We have varied formats significantly since the 1800s, but the code and the notes that you can even read and borrow from Australia or transcribe yourself are the same ones that Louis Braille would have used. And I love the thought of that.

Yeah. So Louis Braille lost his sight. And as you probably most of the listeners will be familiar with the story of Louis Braille having an accident at the age of three in his father's leatherworking workshop and losing the sight in one eye and the infection spreading to both eyes. So a lot of his school education was done at a blind school. And I guess for blind people, music is often fostered and nurtured. And Louis Braille was a gifted cellist and organist, played for the church services there. And he, as well as inventing a literary braille code, invented the music code. So all of these signs that we know and love today are because of Louis Braille. We have varied formats significantly since the 1800s, but the code and the notes that you can even read and borrow from Australia or transcribe yourself are the same ones that Louis Braille would have used. And I love the thought of that.

Yeah, that is a wonderful thought. And in that intervening 200 years, what's been some big developments in the world of Braille music over the past decades with, you know, technology becoming more and more prevalent and, you know, more people getting involved in the field of braille music to sort of bring that to more people. What's sort of been the most exciting developments over the past ten, 20, 30, 40 plus years?

Yeah, that is a wonderful thought. And in that intervening 200 years, what's been some big developments in the world of Braille music over the past decades with, you know, technology becoming more and more prevalent and, you know, more people getting involved in the field of braille music to sort of bring that to more people. What's sort of been the most exciting developments over the past ten, 20, 30, 40 plus years?

Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess in the last 40, 50 years, we've seen a lot of change in music formats, particularly with piano music. Often, though, a Braille music to economize space with a page because they were brailling with hand frames and styluses and much more mechanical methods of brailling. And so you'd have, say, a bar of the left hand on the same line as a bar of the right hand, just to save paper. Whereas now the piano music is brailled most often, certainly in Australia, US, UK, where the right hand is aligned directly above the left hand. So it's easy to find the beginning of each bar and know where you are. It's much, I think, much more intuitive format in terms of technology, though, we are at a really exciting time. So in the last 7 or 8 years, I mean, it's been going on for a lot longer than that, but I think a lot more lot more. International collaboration has happened more recently where Braille music, although it has recently it's used to be transcribed manually. We're having programs being developed to auto or semi-automate Braille music translations. For example, there's a free program called MuseScore, and that's just a standard print editor, music editor that people can download and play scores. And sighted people can read from it. But in the last seven years, there has been significant international collaboration and funding put in to making that accessible for blind people, both from an audio perspective but also from a Braille translation perspective. So you can put something through MuseScore and translate it directly into Braille. There's also another freeware program called Saomai, my Braille music translator, SMB. And that can import a musicxml file, which is like a text version of print music and translate it just like that into Braille. And you can specify how you want that done in the early 90s. A man called Bill McCann devised some software that does the same thing called the Good Feel Braille Music Translator. And that consists of kind of three different software packages one to scan print music, another to pop it into sort of print music that you can edit. And the third thing is to edit it into Braille. So there's a lot of options out there now, as well as your braille note takers, where you can carry your music around with you rather than having to carry around volumes and volumes of Braille.

Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess in the last 40, 50 years, we've seen a lot of change in music formats, particularly with piano music. Often, though, a Braille music to economize space with a page because they were brailling with hand frames and styluses and much more mechanical methods of brailling. And so you'd have, say, a bar of the left hand on the same line as a bar of the right hand, just to save paper. Whereas now the piano music is brailled most often, certainly in Australia, US, UK, where the right hand is aligned directly above the left hand. So it's easy to find the beginning of each bar and know where you are. It's much, I think, much more intuitive format in terms of technology, though, we are at a really exciting time. So in the last 7 or 8 years, I mean, it's been going on for a lot longer than that, but I think a lot more lot more. International collaboration has happened more recently where Braille music, although it has recently it's used to be transcribed manually. We're having programs being developed to auto or semi-automate Braille music translations. For example, there's a free program called MuseScore, and that's just a standard print editor, music editor that people can download and play scores. And sighted people can read from it. But in the last seven years, there has been significant international collaboration and funding put in to making that accessible for blind people, both from an audio perspective but also from a Braille translation perspective. So you can put something through MuseScore and translate it directly into Braille. There's also another freeware program called Saomai, my Braille music translator, SMB. And that can import a musicxml file, which is like a text version of print music and translate it just like that into Braille. And you can specify how you want that done in the early 90s. A man called Bill McCann devised some software that does the same thing called the Good Feel Braille Music Translator. And that consists of kind of three different software packages one to scan print music, another to pop it into sort of print music that you can edit. And the third thing is to edit it into Braille. So there's a lot of options out there now, as well as your braille note takers, where you can carry your music around with you rather than having to carry around volumes and volumes of Braille.

Mhm. Definitely. But one other exciting aspect of Braille music, especially in Australia, is the braille music camps, which have been going on for the best part of four decades now. Jordi, it's amazing how that sort of just really taken off from its humble beginnings in the mid 80s to what it's become now. So tell us a bit about your involvement there. I know you've had quite a long standing involvement with the camps up there in Mittagong.

Mhm. Definitely. But one other exciting aspect of Braille music, especially in Australia, is the braille music camps, which have been going on for the best part of four decades now. Jordi, it's amazing how that sort of just really taken off from its humble beginnings in the mid 80s to what it's become now. So tell us a bit about your involvement there. I know you've had quite a long standing involvement with the camps up there in Mittagong.

I have. And it's one week of the year where blind children who were integrated into mainstream schools, where they're the only blind kid in a sea of sighted children. So they're doing everything differently. So the one week of the year where blind kids can be the majority, and where Braille is the format that's being used, it's really empowering. And I started going as a 12 year old. I just fell in love with the whole Braille music camp movement, the singing in the dining room when you're eating food, hearing all the clicking of canes, you know, walking up to the dining room or up to the music centre and the lovely concerts every night and things like that. And then I just couldn't stop going. So I continued when I was a university student, as a teacher. And I haven't really stopped yet. There you go. And it's just so wonderful to see the next generation of young students starting to be teachers and seeing the whole life cycle of Braille music, reading, musicians continuing.

I have. And it's one week of the year where blind children who were integrated into mainstream schools, where they're the only blind kid in a sea of sighted children. So they're doing everything differently. So the one week of the year where blind kids can be the majority, and where Braille is the format that's being used, it's really empowering. And I started going as a 12 year old. I just fell in love with the whole Braille music camp movement, the singing in the dining room when you're eating food, hearing all the clicking of canes, you know, walking up to the dining room or up to the music centre and the lovely concerts every night and things like that. And then I just couldn't stop going. So I continued when I was a university student, as a teacher. And I haven't really stopped yet. There you go. And it's just so wonderful to see the next generation of young students starting to be teachers and seeing the whole life cycle of Braille music, reading, musicians continuing.

Well that's it. We've had so many people involved over the years. Pioneers right at the beginning, like, you know, Roma Dixon, Dorothy Hamilton, all the way up to the new generation, as you've said, with people like yourself, Michaela Schmidt. I know Ashley Malone has been involved in there. A lot of younger people in there getting involved and bringing Braille music to so many children and young people out there, which is just so fantastic that we're getting the word out that, you know, there is this place where you can come and belong and play music together and have a lot of fun and learn really amazing life skills. So it's just absolutely fantastic and has just been amazing over the past four decades, almost. It has. Yeah.

Well that's it. We've had so many people involved over the years. Pioneers right at the beginning, like, you know, Roma Dixon, Dorothy Hamilton, all the way up to the new generation, as you've said, with people like yourself, Michaela Schmidt. I know Ashley Malone has been involved in there. A lot of younger people in there getting involved and bringing Braille music to so many children and young people out there, which is just so fantastic that we're getting the word out that, you know, there is this place where you can come and belong and play music together and have a lot of fun and learn really amazing life skills. So it's just absolutely fantastic and has just been amazing over the past four decades, almost. It has. Yeah.

And the wonderful thing about the music camp is the lifelong friends that you make. And we've had a few weddings of music campers in the past. And you know, I've got friends that I knew as a 12, 14 year old, whatever that are still really good, good friends myself. So it's a really special thing to know a lot of the blind musicians in Australia who read Braille music. I probably know the majority of them because I attended the music camps.

And the wonderful thing about the music camp is the lifelong friends that you make. And we've had a few weddings of music campers in the past. And you know, I've got friends that I knew as a 12, 14 year old, whatever that are still really good, good friends myself. So it's a really special thing to know a lot of the blind musicians in Australia who read Braille music. I probably know the majority of them because I attended the music camps.

Mhm. No, that's really cool. I love that. It's, it is a small world sometimes but um. Yeah, yeah it is, it is. But in case people are really interested in finding out a little bit more about how they can get their favorite piece of braille music transcribed or how they might learn Braille music. They might be somebody who is blind or has very low vision and would really benefit from learning Braille music. They might want to pick up an instrument or start singing, and they're just not really quite sure how to go about that. So what sort of places could they go to sort of do these things and get in touch.

Mhm. No, that's really cool. I love that. It's, it is a small world sometimes but um. Yeah, yeah it is, it is. But in case people are really interested in finding out a little bit more about how they can get their favorite piece of braille music transcribed or how they might learn Braille music. They might be somebody who is blind or has very low vision and would really benefit from learning Braille music. They might want to pick up an instrument or start singing, and they're just not really quite sure how to go about that. So what sort of places could they go to sort of do these things and get in touch.

Well, the first thing I'd suggest to either learn Braille music or download your favorite piece if you have access to a Braille display. The library has just upgraded its catalog, and so you can search for Braille music titles that you might already know. So if there's something particular, it's probably best to search for it first before you call the library and ask if you can get a copy of it. Brailled. There are two main publications that I would suggest for learning Braille music. The first is from one of the founders of the National Braille music camp, the director of music of that camp for probably 20 or so years more was Ian Cooper, and he wrote a book called read, Sing and Play, which covers the basics of Braille music, vocal format, piano format, instrumental formats. And there's a lovely glossary on the last 3 or 4 pages of that book. And so you can download that in BRF format. You can also give the library a call and request a hard copy of that book, if you if you would prefer to have it sitting on your piano as a volume rather than refreshable Braille. Another publication that Vision Australia also released was written and I guess coordinated by Helen Mirren, Sister Helen Mirren, and she was a Braille music and braille teacher for many years. And it's called A Survivor's Guide to Braille Music, which is a great title.

Well, the first thing I'd suggest to either learn Braille music or download your favorite piece if you have access to a Braille display. The library has just upgraded its catalog, and so you can search for Braille music titles that you might already know. So if there's something particular, it's probably best to search for it first before you call the library and ask if you can get a copy of it. Brailled. There are two main publications that I would suggest for learning Braille music. The first is from one of the founders of the National Braille music camp, the director of music of that camp for probably 20 or so years more was Ian Cooper, and he wrote a book called read, Sing and Play, which covers the basics of Braille music, vocal format, piano format, instrumental formats. And there's a lovely glossary on the last 3 or 4 pages of that book. And so you can download that in BRF format. You can also give the library a call and request a hard copy of that book, if you if you would prefer to have it sitting on your piano as a volume rather than refreshable Braille. Another publication that Vision Australia also released was written and I guess coordinated by Helen Mirren, Sister Helen Mirren, and she was a Braille music and braille teacher for many years. And it's called A Survivor's Guide to Braille Music, which is a great title.

It's a fantastic title.

It's a fantastic title.

It also has an accompanying CD, which is a real bonus because if you're reading a piece of music and you don't know how it goes, you can have a listen, and that's definitely an advantage of that particular publication. It is also a lot larger than read, sing and play, so it's really a course in music, whereas read, Sing and Play is more of a reference book. It doesn't have lots and lots of exercises for you to complete yourself. I mean, it has exercises that you can read through, but not necessarily instructional material. If you have a new piece that you might have a PDF copy or a print copy of, you can contact the library. The lady who facilitates all our music is Giselle Perello, and she's based in Sydney, and we'll be able to assist you if you give Vision Australia a call. If you send a hard copy of that score to her or email it to her, she'll be able to help you out. Getting it brailled.

It also has an accompanying CD, which is a real bonus because if you're reading a piece of music and you don't know how it goes, you can have a listen, and that's definitely an advantage of that particular publication. It is also a lot larger than read, sing and play, so it's really a course in music, whereas read, Sing and Play is more of a reference book. It doesn't have lots and lots of exercises for you to complete yourself. I mean, it has exercises that you can read through, but not necessarily instructional material. If you have a new piece that you might have a PDF copy or a print copy of, you can contact the library. The lady who facilitates all our music is Giselle Perello, and she's based in Sydney, and we'll be able to assist you if you give Vision Australia a call. If you send a hard copy of that score to her or email it to her, she'll be able to help you out. Getting it brailled.

Perfect. And that vision Australia number one 384 70 466. That's one 384 70 466. And you can get in touch with Giselle that way. Jordy we could talk forever as always, but I think we might have to wrap up for now. Thank you so much for your time today and happy World Braille Day.

Perfect. And that vision Australia number one 384 70 466. That's one 384 70 466. And you can get in touch with Giselle that way. Jordy we could talk forever as always, but I think we might have to wrap up for now. Thank you so much for your time today and happy World Braille Day.

Happy World Braille Day to you and to all the listeners. Let's hope we can do something special on the 4th of January to celebrate our wonderful system of reading and writing.

Happy World Braille Day to you and to all the listeners. Let's hope we can do something special on the 4th of January to celebrate our wonderful system of reading and writing.

And that's all the time we have for today. You've been listening to Talking Vision. Talking vision is a Vision Australia radio production. Thanks to all involved with putting the show together every week. And remember, we love hearing from you. So please get in touch anytime on our email at Talking at Vision Australia. Org. That's talking vision all one word at Vision australia.org. But until next week it's Sam Corley saying bye for now.

And that's all the time we have for today. You've been listening to Talking Vision. Talking vision is a Vision Australia radio production. Thanks to all involved with putting the show together every week. And remember, we love hearing from you. So please get in touch anytime on our email at Talking at Vision Australia. Org. That's talking vision all one word at Vision australia.org. But until next week it's Sam Corley saying bye for now.

You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during business hours on one 384 7486. That's one 384 7486 or by visiting Vision Australia. That's Vision Australia. Org.

You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during business hours on one 384 7486. That's one 384 7486 or by visiting Vision Australia. That's Vision Australia. Org.