Sam is joined this week by Narelle Gatti, a passionate digital access advocate with lived experience of vision loss.
Narelle speaks about how she managed life with her family after the change, her work and podcast addressing accessibility needs, and appearing on Vision Australia Radio program Kintsugi Heroes.
Then after we hear from Narelle, Associate Professor Matthew Butler is back on the program to tell us about a new PhD scholarship opportunity at the Monash Assistive Technology Society centre.
From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam Coley.
Hello everyone. It's great to be here with you. And for the next half hour we talk matters of blindness and low vision.
It was only when I started walking from the train to work, realizing why I was so scared in that walk all the time, and it was a bit scary because I couldn't work out. People would suddenly jump in front of me because I had a really good case of tunnel vision at that stage, and I thought they were jumping in front of me. They weren't. I just couldn't see them, didn't know they were there and it was all types of issues.
Welcome to the program. This week we speak with Noel Gatti, who shares her experiences with Vision Loss after being diagnosed at 42, but also her work as a digital access advocate and her involvement on various podcasts and radio programs such as Kintsugi Heroes right here on Vision Australia Radio. That interview is coming up right around the corner, so make sure to stick around. And then after you hear from Noel, I speak with Associate Professor Matthew Butler from the faculty of it at Monash Uni, who's here to tell us all about a PhD scholarship in assistive technology. I hope you'll enjoy this week's episode of Talking Vision. Our first guest on Talking Vision this week is a passionate digital access advocate. She also has lived experience with vision loss, having been diagnosed later in life. But she's also telling her story on Kintsugi heroes right here on Vision Australia Radio. Her name is Noelle Gatti and she joins me now. Noelle, welcome to the show. Thank you very much for your time.
Oh, Sam, it's lovely to actually meet you.
And you too. Now, firstly, Noelle, why don't we get a little bit of an introduction from you? Tell us a little bit about yourself and your work.
Yes, Sam, I'm in my late 50s now. I lost all functional vision about two and a half years ago, but I've got a deteriorating eye condition that was diagnosed when I was 42. And I'm a mum of three wonderful sons and very, very proud of my son. I'm a daughter. I'm a sister to my cousin, I'm a friend. And I'm also advocating for digital accessibility throughout the community because I see such a big, important need of it.
Tell us a little bit about your digital accessibility work that you do.
Yeah. Look, I volunteer with a company called Digital Access Solutions, assistive technology. We all have disability, so I see shapes. The director, Mike Muscat, these light and shade. And then the other director who's Alan Parker, he's dyslexic. And so Alan flies all over the world. He's dispute resolution expert and all types of things. And the three of us looked at our ages and realised in this day and age, there is no reason why people that use assistive technology in any form, and I'm talking people with cognitive brain impairments, dyslexia, autism spectrum, physical problems, anything. Auditory processing a lot. Why there's this gap where they can't access the information. The technical methods are doing it. Are there the guidelines the standards are there. Just people don't know about it. So we decided we'd do something. And Alan's closer to retirement than me. I was laugh and say, yeah, I've got about nine years to retirement and let's see what we can do. Let's educate. And it's we're educating small to medium businesses predominantly, but we'll talk to anyone. And the reason for that is most people with disability deal with small to medium sized businesses every day. You shop, know your small IGA, your cafe, your hairdresser, your anything and everything and they do. The NDIS service providers. Their small business and not one of these people seem to understand how digital accessibility gives independence. It enhances the communication.
It certainly does. Noel. And speaking of communication, we will get back to the podcast that you're also involved with and the radio program Kintsugi heroes will come back to that later. And your involvement there. But I want to just go back and have a bit of a chat about your vision loss from age 42 and the feelings and how you overcame that, and how you managed life after the change and adapted your life in that way.
Well, it was diagnosed at 42, but it's a genetic condition I've got. And, you know, I grew up right out bush on a cattle property and mum and dad, once they realised it was nine when I first got glasses and they thought it was just short sighted. And, you know, my sight kept deteriorating a bit, but they thought it was just, you know, it's just what happened, you short sighted. And then when I was 42, actually, I'd been driving that day. I'd been to work. I, you know, my kids were still teenagers, late primary, early high school. And I got a new set of glasses, went to the optometrist, said, oh, your glasses are a bit of a problem here. And she's also one of my very good friends. And I walked out legally blind, you know, space of 45 minutes. And, you know, I remember my husband actually drove us home, and I remember being pretty shell shocked in one way, but at the same time, it was mum hat firmly on. By the time we were halfway, only ten minutes back to the house and thinking okay, food, homework, but find out how the boys went, get the lunches ready for tomorrow, you know, get everything ready for the next day. And then I was, you know, I was back into being the mum mode. And I'm really proud. Two of my sons are on the autistic spectrum. So it was one of them had much higher needs than the other, but it was getting them there. And it was only like when I started walking from the train to work, realizing why I was so scared in that walk all the time. And it was a bit scary because I couldn't work out. People would suddenly jump in front of me because I had a really good case of tunnel vision at that stage, and I thought they were jumping in front of me. They weren't. I just couldn't see them, didn't know they were there. And it was all types of issues. And because being brought up at Bush, my dad was a World War Two veteran. We were really taught to be resilient, taught to think outside the square and just get on with it. So. I just had to. You know, it's so important that my boys were successful as much as I could assist them to be successful, but they had to learn all the things that teenagers have to learn, and that was important. And so I think our hardest part, it was only sort of later on when I'd go to read and I think, oh, I can't read anymore, and I love reading, or I used to do a lot of handicrafts, and that started having to stop and sewing and things. And then when I had to stop work because I couldn't literally do the work because my sight wasn't good enough. And that's when it really that was the hardest, because I had to sit because I'm very light sensitive with this as well. So I had to I basically was home for three months, sitting in a dark room while the headaches dealt settle down. And I think so. You know, the boys by that stage, they were independent and it was really, oh my gosh, how am I going to do this now? And that's when Mark Muscat, the other director of Digital Access Solutions, sort of said, stop being an idiot, gave me a bit of a talking to, but was it easy? At times it wasn't, but I didn't focus on it. I, you know, I was lucky. One of my good friends at the time, her brother in law was legally blind. So he got on the phone to me and I, I met some wonderful people, and I've done things that I would not have done if I hadn't had this issue. You know, I'd have probably still been out doing the garden, working full time, driving the car, doing the things I would have done. But because my life has changed so drastically, I'm doing things I would never have thought of doing and I'm having a ball doing it. Not that easy, no. Was it emotionally quite hard? Oh yeah. I've had a few counselling sessions talking my way through this, not being able to read and not being able to do my handicraft and not being able to do all these other things. And I am a hern. So I drove, I learnt to drive when I was about eight, so at 42 having to hand my driving licence in and I did have a fair few speeding tickets, I was a bit of a hoon and I still love cars and I'll sit there and quite happily talk cars because I absolutely love them. You know, realistically, you've just got to get on with it, you know? Certainly. Is it easy?
No, no. And there's a lot there that people don't really talk about. You know, you don't hear about so much the light sensitivity and those things you don't hear about, oh, I can't, you know, read my favourite book as much. But have you gotten into audiobooks and those sorts of things or. Um, I do, yeah. No, they're great aren't they?
I flog audiobooks.
Oh, they're.
Fantastic that I used to love reading because I used to love a lot of Australiana. There's a really great author called Iris Portis. He wrote cattlemen, Few Others, and one of my favourite books, which is a book called Brigalow. And you cannot get that on audio. It just doesn't exist. The books that I really love. There was another Australian author called Eve Timms that wrote in the 20s and 30s and 40s. Their books are not on audio, and you'll never get them on audio because they're books that have gone out of print, and they're old books and, you know, those really old, some of those old style books. But I read all types of genre anyway, so I've just adapted because what choice do you have? But, you know, today, like watching TV, I used to love history and I still love history. And you know, I love my footy. But NRL is not the same. Watching it as listening to it, you know, I miss watching it because I used to get quite involved in the state of origin and all of those things, and I can't do it. And that freedom to be able to just hop in the car and go to the shop, I missed that. It is one of the hardest things, even to find different ingredients when you're cooking new ingredients, and that doesn't happen anymore, you have to adjust. You have to accept because it's, you know, people get old anyway. And I laugh and say, now, well, I'm just going to beat you to it. You know, you guys are going to have to learn. I've already done all that. I'm not going to be as hard on me when things change as they get older, because I've already lost my sight. It's just a different way of thinking. And you really do have to change your thinking because you've got two options sit in the corner and cry or laugh and crying hurts everyone. Laughing and getting on with it helps people. Which is the better way. Yeah.
And you've talked a bit about your work and how you got involved there and, you know, the passion for digital accessibility that you do have. And that's also, of course, led on to the podcast that you've been doing and interviews and being involved with various programs and podcasts such as Kintsugi Heroes, but also the podcast addressing accessibility needs. So tell us a little bit about your work there behind the microphone.
Yeah. So I've been in a few podcasts as guests, but the one that I run is called the Digital Access Show. And thank you to the wonderful Aldwin Oulton who helped us come up with the name. And it's all about digital accessibility, but it's looking. Looking at it from every point of view I can find, whether it's the small business trying to say, well, we actually can't afford to do it, we don't have that profit margin to do it to. Okay, well, what's the quick, simple way that you can do something small that costs nothing? And so we've had different businesses on we talk to people that have digital accessibility issues, like the wonderful Elise Carter Edwards who talked about her hearing impairment and just the issues she has going to the shop, because it is a huge issue with the tannoy. And she says shopping is just all she hears the sound and it's like she's been bombarded with it or like someone with a vision impairment living in regional Queensland. Well, Jean Ross, she has some. I mean, she had to stay at a stand at a train station for three hours in the dark because she had to get the train to the next town to go home. No one there. She can't read the signs, so she knew she just had to stay there, you know? And that would have been a little bit scary for her. Or pretty scary, actually. But you know what I mean. There's all these people out there, like there's a guy called Patrick Dillon, and he became a quadriplegic in his late 30s, I think mid late 30s, and he now works full time there. We've talked to disability employment specialists. We've talked to web developers about just how easy it is to incorporate digital accessibility designer web design people. Shannon Towle You know, we've talked to Alan Parker about dyslexia and his story, and it's an amazing story about how he's just lived his life. And Alan Stilgoe, I think he's early 70s. He's fantastic. He doesn't let anything stop him. Mark Muscott that just said, no, well, get on with life. And so we're talking to all these people we've got coming up like an NDIS service consultant about how he works with NDIS service providers and talking about his concepts and his thoughts about digital accessibility. Because the more different thoughts we can get, the more that people see that actually, it's not really hard to do and it should be done. The more we're going to enhance everyone's communication.
And how did you get involved with people like Ian Westmorland and the Kintsugi Heroes crew and all of those people?
It was interesting actually. I go to business networking meetings to talk about digital accessibility, and I met a guy there called Peter Ria. I think that was on one of the online ones, because I do a few online ones, and we got to talking and, you know, about different things. And he said, oh, I've got to introduce you to this bloke. And I said, oh yeah, I'll have a chat to anyone. And that's how I met Ian through that Ian that runs the Katsuki heroes. And then Ian started telling me his story and I was actually fascinated. It was probably my third career. Well, it is actually. But people change careers midstream. The reasons why they do it, you know, the passion they have for it is it just points out how people have different passions at different stages of their lives and how it directs their lives. And talking to Ian was really, really interesting. And then he asked me to be on Katsuji heroes, and I said, what's that? And he explained it and I said, yeah, okay, I'll do it. And I just thought, you know what he's done in getting Katsuki Heroes off the ground and running? I think it's phenomenal. Absolutely phenomenal, because it just points out that you can do anything if you want to.
And we're looking forward to hearing you on Kintsugi Heroes. But in the meantime, Narelle, what's the best way for people to head along and listen to your program, the Digital Access Show?
It's on Amazon, Spotify, the Apple Podcast. It can be found on any of the major podcast channels that you use. Just look for us, it's the digital digital access, a C, E, s show, and it is really about getting as many points of view across as possible, because if we can, it's all about education and educating from different points of view. Even down to there was a lady called Amber Adcock who's got a son that's on the autistic spectrum, level three non-verbal, and how she communicates with him and the issues and where she sees things going. And yeah, fantastic. Just the people I'm meeting are wonderful.
I've been speaking today with Noel all about her journey with vision loss, how she overcame various barriers, but also the fantastic work she's currently doing in the digital access space. Noel, thank you so much for your time today. It's a pleasure to have a chat with you and look forward to hearing you on Kintsugi Heroes in the not too distant future.
Well. Thanks, Sam. Look, it really has been a pleasure to meet you. Thank you so much.
I'm Sam Kelly and you're listening to Talking Vision on Vision Australia Radio, associated stations of the Reading Radio Network, and the Community Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed that interview there with Noel Gatti. If you missed any part of that chat with Noel or you'd love to listen to it again. Talking vision is available on the Vision Australia Radio website at VA radio.org. That's VA radio.org. Or you can find the program on the podcast app of your choice or through the Vision Australia library. And now coming up next, my chat with Associate Professor Matthew Butler. Our next guest is an associate professor at the Faculty of Information Technology at Monash University. But he's also involved in the Monash Assistive Technology and Society Centre, which is offering a PhD scholarship in assistive technology and disability. His name is Matthew Butler, and he joins me now. Matt, welcome back to Talking Vision. Great to have you.
Thank you so much for the opportunity. Sam. It's great to chat with you again.
Now we're talking about the PhD scholarship in assistive technology and disability today, Matt, as part of the Matt centre where the candidates will be working. So tell us a little bit about the Matt centre.
Yeah very happy to. So the Matt centre. So Matt's stands for Monash Assistive Technology and Society Centre. So it's a fairly recently formed centre. We're about 18 months old now I guess located at Monash University. And I guess the idea behind the centre is to bring together academics and PhD students and researchers of all kinds across the whole of Monash, who have some kind of interest or focus on assistive technology and disability support quite broadly. So we're not just technologists, a good number of us are, but we also try to look at some of the social aspects of it, the business side of things from an education perspective as well. So we've got around about 100 academics across the university who are all doing work in this area. And what is exciting about that is it lets us think about assistive technology in a, in a much more broader sense.
And following on from that, Matt, tell us a bit about the PhD scholarship itself. What are some details that you'd love to let people know about as an overview in general? Yeah, for.
Sure. So we're very fortunate to be able to offer a PhD scholarship in or related to, I guess, assistive technology and disabilities. So for those of you who are interested in PhD, so at Monash, it's about a three and a half year process, has a little bit of coursework, but it's mostly focusing on a research project and why we're really excited about this is we're seeing this as an opportunity to get some people in, and candidates who have a really strong interest in assistive technology. We're really encouraging people who identify as having some form of disability to apply, because any PhD topic that we do in this space, and we're actually quite flexible in what the nature of the project is, we really want to come from the community and be in support of the community. So it is about working with some of our academics in the centre. And yeah, working on a research project for the next three and a half years or so, funded with, I guess, a kind of like a living allowance type aspect to it.
And there's quite a few themes that the Matt Centre is exploring and sort of things that prospective candidates can look forward to. And I understand there is roughly four of those. So could you tell us a little bit about them?
Yeah for sure. So I think the different themes are reflective of our centre more broadly. And the reason we're putting together or putting forward a number of themes is to allow a bit of discussion with potential candidates for what areas of interest they have and what expertise that they bring. So some of the themes span from very technology driven. So working very closely with new and emerging technologies to support real world needs for people with disability. So that could be things like conversational agents like Siri and Alexa, could be wearable technologies and the like. We then actually move from being very projects, being potentially very technology focused and development through to the more social side of technology. So reflecting on the role of technology and its use, considering the adoption of technology or barriers to access. So coming at it from more of a social perspective, one of the other themes is around supporting participation in Stem. So representation in Stem is often quite low. And so we're looking at research that can look at trying to identify and address the barriers to participation in science, technology, engineering and medicine. And then the fourth theme is around community and workplace participation. So considering again the role of technology that can support cultural activities, sporting activities, other types of community activities or technologies that can help address barriers that might currently restrict employment. So hopefully your listeners can hear that just because we have assistive technology in the title, don't be scared if you don't come from a very technical background. We want to consider technology both at a very technical level but also at a very social level.
And of course, you are looking to get people involved who have lived experience of disabilities, but there are a lot of other people who are eligible to take part. So if people out there are interested and thinking, oh, I'd love to, you know, get involved in this opportunity, who is eligible to take part in the scholarship?
So that's a really great question. So the opportunity is focused on Australian citizens, people who have permanent residency in Australia or and also New Zealand citizens. While as you mentioned, we really are strongly encouraging people who identify as having a disability to apply, ultimately, anyone who kind of fits the Australian criteria can apply. Why we do. You know, I guess we're strongly encouraging the people who identify as having a disability, or certainly people who are familiar with that context is we do really want to ensure that any PhD project that we work on does come from a place of genuine need and a place of community. So that's where we've put a bit of that focus. But certainly anybody who does have an interest or has some prior work that they've done in anything more broadly related to assistive technology, is very much encouraged to reach out and get in touch.
Okay. And speaking of getting in touch, Matt, how can people get in touch with you or the MIT center to possibly apply and or find out a little bit more about the scholarship? What's the best way to do that?
Yeah, look, the best way is probably just to get directly in touch with me, I think is a start. So email is is usually my best point of contact. Uh, I'm kind of in and out of the office quite a bit. So my email address is Matthew with two T's dot Butler butler@monash.edu if you drop me an email if you've heard this I can certainly send you a bit more information. We can discuss a little bit about your background topics that you might be interested in. And look, applying for a PhD is a bit of that kind of discussion. So sometimes a PhD is a very fixed project that you might come on to here. We're very open to exploring the different potential projects that are a candidate might take on.
And finally, the closing date for the scholarship applications is the 3rd of July. Now is that still the case?
No. So that is that is still the case. We tend to look. So PhD applications are usually often not fixed by a particular kind of hard deadline I guess we've got this date so that we can consider the different applicants and who might be most suitable. So if people can aim for that. But I would say if you do come across this just that little bit too late, it's certainly worth reaching out because there still could be other opportunities related to doing a PhD in this space.
Okay, that's fantastic news. I've been speaking today with Matthew Butler from the Mat Centre at Monash University, chatting to me all about the centre and the upcoming applications for the PhD scholarship in assistive technology. Matt, thank you so much for your time today. It was a pleasure to catch up with you again and chat all about the scholarship.
And it was great to chat with you, Sam, and as always, we really appreciate the support we get from your end.
And that's all the time we have for today. You've been listening to Talking Vision. Talking vision is a Vision Australia radio production. Thanks to all involved with putting the show together every week. And remember, we love hearing from you. So please get in touch any time on our email at Talking Vision. At Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all one word at Vision australia.org. But until next week it's Sam Colly saying bye for now.
You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us any time during business hours on 1300 847 406. That's one 308 474106 or by visiting Vision Australia. Org that's Vision australia.org.