From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam Collins.

From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam Collins.

Hello everyone. It's great to be here with you. And for the next half hour we talk matters of blindness and low vision. Hello and welcome to this special World Braille edition of Talking Vision. Today we'll be chatting with two individuals where Braille has played a major role in their life from a very young age. First up, you'll hear from Tess Herbert. You may remember a year or two ago, I caught up with tests for World Braille Day to discuss the role that Braille has played in her life, especially in enabling her to pursue her love of stories and reading. That conversation's coming up very shortly, so make sure to stay tuned. And then later on in the show today, Stella Gloria catches up with Dorothy Hamilton. Dorothy is a name familiar to a large portion of you out there. I'm sure she speaks about the doors that Braille has opened for her as a musician, teacher, and tireless Braille music advocate. And to wrap up this show this week, following on from Dorothy, we've got a little treat for you all out there. There's a piece of music from the Braille Music camp, the annual camp in Mittagong for children who are blind or have low vision to learn by our music. I hope you'll enjoy this week's special World Braille Day edition of Talking Vision. In celebration of World Braille Day, we're talking to a few people where Braille has changed their life, and the next voice you hear might be familiar to quite a few people. It's Tess Herbert who joins me to celebrate World Braille Day. Tess, welcome to Talking Vision. Thanks very much for being here today.

Hello everyone. It's great to be here with you. And for the next half hour we talk matters of blindness and low vision. Hello and welcome to this special World Braille edition of Talking Vision. Today we'll be chatting with two individuals where Braille has played a major role in their life from a very young age. First up, you'll hear from Tess Herbert. You may remember a year or two ago, I caught up with tests for World Braille Day to discuss the role that Braille has played in her life, especially in enabling her to pursue her love of stories and reading. That conversation's coming up very shortly, so make sure to stay tuned. And then later on in the show today, Stella Gloria catches up with Dorothy Hamilton. Dorothy is a name familiar to a large portion of you out there. I'm sure she speaks about the doors that Braille has opened for her as a musician, teacher, and tireless Braille music advocate. And to wrap up this show this week, following on from Dorothy, we've got a little treat for you all out there. There's a piece of music from the Braille Music camp, the annual camp in Mittagong for children who are blind or have low vision to learn by our music. I hope you'll enjoy this week's special World Braille Day edition of Talking Vision. In celebration of World Braille Day, we're talking to a few people where Braille has changed their life, and the next voice you hear might be familiar to quite a few people. It's Tess Herbert who joins me to celebrate World Braille Day. Tess, welcome to Talking Vision. Thanks very much for being here today.

Thank you for having me, Sam. It's very strange being in the the chair of the interviewee as opposed to the interviewer. That's right.

Thank you for having me, Sam. It's very strange being in the the chair of the interviewee as opposed to the interviewer. That's right.

And quite exciting. I don't I don't think we've done this before. So it's, um, it's always. No, it's a new experience for both of us. I think it.

And quite exciting. I don't I don't think we've done this before. So it's, um, it's always. No, it's a new experience for both of us. I think it.

Is. And, you know, working together for, for, you know, well over a year, it's kind of fun to be interviewing and, and what better day to do it than for World Braille Day. Thank you for having me.

Is. And, you know, working together for, for, you know, well over a year, it's kind of fun to be interviewing and, and what better day to do it than for World Braille Day. Thank you for having me.

Super fun. Great to have you. Now, um, firstly, Tess, um, why don't you start off by telling us the story of how the love of reading started with them with Braille, as I understand, 25 years ago, when you were for your hand at a five page Braille book.

Super fun. Great to have you. Now, um, firstly, Tess, um, why don't you start off by telling us the story of how the love of reading started with them with Braille, as I understand, 25 years ago, when you were for your hand at a five page Braille book.

Yes, yes.

Yes, yes.

It was about 26 years ago, 1995, I think. I mean, I'd always loved books from from when, you know, I don't even know how. I mean, as long as I can remember, I've loved books and my, my, my father and my mum, they used to read me the Faraway Tree books and, um, you know, Enid Blyton, Roald Dahl, my Nana and my both my grandmothers would read me specific books. There was Meg and Meg, um, and a bunch of others. And so I just, you know, books and stories were just my whole, you know, that that and music, but particularly stories was basically just my favourite thing in the whole world. And I was always listening to tapes, story tapes, um, you know, the playschool stories or, um, Grimm's Fairy Tales or whatever there was. I was just always listening to it because I loved it. Um, and then when I was four and I went to what we called preschool in New South Wales, and it's possibly called kindergarten in Victoria, I'm not sure. So when I was in, in preschool, kindergarten or whatever it's called, um, I, you know, I had a visiting teacher, um, Wendy, who specialized in Braille. And so I don't really know I don't know whether I was halfway through my second year of preschool because we'd have two years. And so maybe about halfway through or something like that. Um, she handed me a book, uh, about 4 or 5 Braille pages, and it was simply entitled Where's Tessa? Which I thought was great. I didn't really twig the book had been written specifically about me on the Braille Machine by Wendy. I was just like, wow, I'm in a book. I'm in a book. This is great. Yes. I'm ready. I'm a celebrity. And, you know, it was where's Tessa? You know, is Tessa beside the gate or at the paddock? And I don't entirely know where Tessa ended up being, but we found her eventually. And that was the first Braille book that that I ever read. And then, you know, I remember reading smaller books like, um, The Very Hungry Caterpillar and books about triangles. There were there were a lot of them. But finally, for the first time, as well as having people read to me and listening to stories on tape, I, um, I could actually read, you know, small books, which I thought was very, very exciting and, you know, reading Braille, writing in Braille, that was basically, you know, all I knew for the first few years. And, I mean, I didn't learn to touch type on a computer until about 9 or 10. But for those first few years, all my school classes were done in Braille, and I just I got better and better and read more books. And then it sort of just developed from there.

It was about 26 years ago, 1995, I think. I mean, I'd always loved books from from when, you know, I don't even know how. I mean, as long as I can remember, I've loved books and my, my, my father and my mum, they used to read me the Faraway Tree books and, um, you know, Enid Blyton, Roald Dahl, my Nana and my both my grandmothers would read me specific books. There was Meg and Meg, um, and a bunch of others. And so I just, you know, books and stories were just my whole, you know, that that and music, but particularly stories was basically just my favourite thing in the whole world. And I was always listening to tapes, story tapes, um, you know, the playschool stories or, um, Grimm's Fairy Tales or whatever there was. I was just always listening to it because I loved it. Um, and then when I was four and I went to what we called preschool in New South Wales, and it's possibly called kindergarten in Victoria, I'm not sure. So when I was in, in preschool, kindergarten or whatever it's called, um, I, you know, I had a visiting teacher, um, Wendy, who specialized in Braille. And so I don't really know I don't know whether I was halfway through my second year of preschool because we'd have two years. And so maybe about halfway through or something like that. Um, she handed me a book, uh, about 4 or 5 Braille pages, and it was simply entitled Where's Tessa? Which I thought was great. I didn't really twig the book had been written specifically about me on the Braille Machine by Wendy. I was just like, wow, I'm in a book. I'm in a book. This is great. Yes. I'm ready. I'm a celebrity. And, you know, it was where's Tessa? You know, is Tessa beside the gate or at the paddock? And I don't entirely know where Tessa ended up being, but we found her eventually. And that was the first Braille book that that I ever read. And then, you know, I remember reading smaller books like, um, The Very Hungry Caterpillar and books about triangles. There were there were a lot of them. But finally, for the first time, as well as having people read to me and listening to stories on tape, I, um, I could actually read, you know, small books, which I thought was very, very exciting and, you know, reading Braille, writing in Braille, that was basically, you know, all I knew for the first few years. And, I mean, I didn't learn to touch type on a computer until about 9 or 10. But for those first few years, all my school classes were done in Braille, and I just I got better and better and read more books. And then it sort of just developed from there.

Okay. So you've talked about, um, a few of the exciting aspects of Braille, but what were some of the other benefits of being able to read with Braille from your point of view?

Okay. So you've talked about, um, a few of the exciting aspects of Braille, but what were some of the other benefits of being able to read with Braille from your point of view?

Oh, I would.

Oh, I would.

Say the biggest benefit, and I started to realize this when I was about 11, is that you didn't need lighting to read Braille. Everyone else, you know, when lights went out in our house, no one else could read. Because if you turn the light on, um, when everyone was meant to be asleep, it was fairly easy for mum and dad to see that. Um, however, I could just, you know, have the book under under the covers. I could basically read until my heart's content, um, lights out or not. And I and I found this particularly useful when I was reading a book called looking for Ala Brandy, which some listeners may be familiar with. It was a, you know, I mean, it was about a 17 year old and I was only 11, so it was possibly a little bit old for me, but I didn't mind that. And I actually think sometimes it's better for, um, younger children to read books that are a bit old for them, introduces them to new concepts. But I was getting fairly close to the end, and this book came in seven volumes. So I was I think I'd started about, yeah, I was in volume seven, and the character, um, the main character was in the process of being jilted by her boyfriend. And so I did not want to put the book down. And it was, you know, time for bed. And my sister had turned out her light and was going to sleep, but I was buggered if I was not going to find out what happened after her boyfriend dumped her. So I just kept reading and I finished the book and no one was any the wiser. So that that was probably the biggest benefit. And that continued sort of, you know, later on, if I wanted to read a book, it was quite easy. And I could I mean, I didn't I didn't tend to read, you know, after midnight or anything, but I could certainly read late into the night, which I really enjoyed.

Say the biggest benefit, and I started to realize this when I was about 11, is that you didn't need lighting to read Braille. Everyone else, you know, when lights went out in our house, no one else could read. Because if you turn the light on, um, when everyone was meant to be asleep, it was fairly easy for mum and dad to see that. Um, however, I could just, you know, have the book under under the covers. I could basically read until my heart's content, um, lights out or not. And I and I found this particularly useful when I was reading a book called looking for Ala Brandy, which some listeners may be familiar with. It was a, you know, I mean, it was about a 17 year old and I was only 11, so it was possibly a little bit old for me, but I didn't mind that. And I actually think sometimes it's better for, um, younger children to read books that are a bit old for them, introduces them to new concepts. But I was getting fairly close to the end, and this book came in seven volumes. So I was I think I'd started about, yeah, I was in volume seven, and the character, um, the main character was in the process of being jilted by her boyfriend. And so I did not want to put the book down. And it was, you know, time for bed. And my sister had turned out her light and was going to sleep, but I was buggered if I was not going to find out what happened after her boyfriend dumped her. So I just kept reading and I finished the book and no one was any the wiser. So that that was probably the biggest benefit. And that continued sort of, you know, later on, if I wanted to read a book, it was quite easy. And I could I mean, I didn't I didn't tend to read, you know, after midnight or anything, but I could certainly read late into the night, which I really enjoyed.

So there's no there's no noticeably tired, sleep deprived tests in the morning. No, no, no.

So there's no there's no noticeably tired, sleep deprived tests in the morning. No, no, no.

Well, I mean, if there was you know, I don't I don't know that anyone really attributed it to reading and I just tend to sleep in. But yeah, those are the benefits.

Well, I mean, if there was you know, I don't I don't know that anyone really attributed it to reading and I just tend to sleep in. But yeah, those are the benefits.

Okay, cool. But on the other side of that for you, I think you've said in the past that, uh, reading Braille hasn't always been easy for you. So tell us a bit more about that.

Okay, cool. But on the other side of that for you, I think you've said in the past that, uh, reading Braille hasn't always been easy for you. So tell us a bit more about that.

Apart from the fact that I'm quite a slow reader because the books had to get railed, especially, you know, by, I think it may have been the Royal Blind Society at that stage, um, which is now in Australia, you couldn't just walk into a library and, and, and grab the book that you wanted. You couldn't just go to the school library and grab whatever book you wanted as, as you could. If you were reading print books. These books had to be special. Israel. And some of them, of course, hadn't been. So it could be quite a long wait. Which, if you are, you know, if you're very bookish and there's a book that you particularly want to read and everyone else is able to read it, it's not a very nice feeling to have to wait for that book to be made available in Braille, when everyone else can just pick it up and read it in print. I think the hardest thing was the Harry Potter books, especially the fifth Harry Potter book. I mean, the first one, um, my dad read to us, and then I had it available, an audio CD, and then I had it in Braille much later, but and I'd been so looking forward to having it in Braille, because it's very different to be able to read a book yourself, you know, either with your eyes or with your hands or, you know, even even with your screen, even with the screen reader. Um, and, and sort of hear the voices in your head yourself without someone else doing them, you know, really and be able to, especially in Braille, um, be able to, to hear, see exactly how the words and names were spelt. You know, I didn't know how word names like, you know, um, McGonagall and Dumbledore with spelt until I got to see them in Braille, you know, which was different to how everyone else got to see them. So to be able to to feel those, those letters and words and characters and follow the plot with my fingers was the most remarkable experience, um, for a nine year old. And I think that book came in about, oh, God, like 12 volumes, but I didn't care. I was so excited. But it did become a problem when I was about 12 and the fifth Harry Potter book came out, because by that stage, you know, we were following them like we for the fourth one, we would run down to the letterbox, you know, just to see if it had arrived. So it was very new and everyone else had a copy, but of course, it hadn't been made available in Braille yet. Or if it had, I hadn't been told. So everyone else had a copy and I didn't. And that's the first time, and by far not the last, that it hit me that everyone else could read this book that I really wanted to read, and they could read it in their own time whenever they wanted, you know, for as long as they wanted, and I couldn't. And so that was the very first time that I realised that, yes, reading and Braille was great, but it also came with the big problem in that you couldn't just go and pick a book out of the library, and it can be a bit upsetting. And I think it was, ah, it wasn't the first time, but it was was one of the only times when I was 12 that I really felt like being blind was a crappy thing to, to happen. Because, you know, when they talk about being blind, they normally talk about things like, oh, you know, she won't be able to find a way around or she won't be able to do these things myself. All those things are very manageable. But if you cannot read a book that that you really want to read because it's not available yet in the format that you needed in, there is absolutely no time and energy and concentration that will make that better.

Apart from the fact that I'm quite a slow reader because the books had to get railed, especially, you know, by, I think it may have been the Royal Blind Society at that stage, um, which is now in Australia, you couldn't just walk into a library and, and, and grab the book that you wanted. You couldn't just go to the school library and grab whatever book you wanted as, as you could. If you were reading print books. These books had to be special. Israel. And some of them, of course, hadn't been. So it could be quite a long wait. Which, if you are, you know, if you're very bookish and there's a book that you particularly want to read and everyone else is able to read it, it's not a very nice feeling to have to wait for that book to be made available in Braille, when everyone else can just pick it up and read it in print. I think the hardest thing was the Harry Potter books, especially the fifth Harry Potter book. I mean, the first one, um, my dad read to us, and then I had it available, an audio CD, and then I had it in Braille much later, but and I'd been so looking forward to having it in Braille, because it's very different to be able to read a book yourself, you know, either with your eyes or with your hands or, you know, even even with your screen, even with the screen reader. Um, and, and sort of hear the voices in your head yourself without someone else doing them, you know, really and be able to, especially in Braille, um, be able to, to hear, see exactly how the words and names were spelt. You know, I didn't know how word names like, you know, um, McGonagall and Dumbledore with spelt until I got to see them in Braille, you know, which was different to how everyone else got to see them. So to be able to to feel those, those letters and words and characters and follow the plot with my fingers was the most remarkable experience, um, for a nine year old. And I think that book came in about, oh, God, like 12 volumes, but I didn't care. I was so excited. But it did become a problem when I was about 12 and the fifth Harry Potter book came out, because by that stage, you know, we were following them like we for the fourth one, we would run down to the letterbox, you know, just to see if it had arrived. So it was very new and everyone else had a copy, but of course, it hadn't been made available in Braille yet. Or if it had, I hadn't been told. So everyone else had a copy and I didn't. And that's the first time, and by far not the last, that it hit me that everyone else could read this book that I really wanted to read, and they could read it in their own time whenever they wanted, you know, for as long as they wanted, and I couldn't. And so that was the very first time that I realised that, yes, reading and Braille was great, but it also came with the big problem in that you couldn't just go and pick a book out of the library, and it can be a bit upsetting. And I think it was, ah, it wasn't the first time, but it was was one of the only times when I was 12 that I really felt like being blind was a crappy thing to, to happen. Because, you know, when they talk about being blind, they normally talk about things like, oh, you know, she won't be able to find a way around or she won't be able to do these things myself. All those things are very manageable. But if you cannot read a book that that you really want to read because it's not available yet in the format that you needed in, there is absolutely no time and energy and concentration that will make that better.

Despite the challenges, though, you've, um, you've talked before about the thrill of new Braille books arriving at, um, either at school or your house. For example, the fifth book eventually arriving um.

Despite the challenges, though, you've, um, you've talked before about the thrill of new Braille books arriving at, um, either at school or your house. For example, the fifth book eventually arriving um.

Did did.

Did did.

One day.

One day.

I don't even know how many volumes that came in, but oh my God, that was like Christmas. And Christmas had happened the month before and I just I went 2.0, Christmas 2.0. I know it was January. And when you have been wanting to read something for yourself and really, you know, if I if Braille had not been invented, I would not have those experiences. I mean, it really did change my life, you know, it it brought books to me like it made books accessible. I didn't have to just wait until I could get them on tape at the Swan Hill Library. They would turn up at my school and I could read them. And even now, you know, even now I use Braille because if I have, um, a presentation that I have to give or a script or, you know, anything that I have to, that I have to be able to read it out. I just, I type it up and I read it out in Braille with my fingers, because otherwise I had to spend a lot of time memorizing it, which would. Make me terribly, terribly nervous. And that Braille essay that I read out. Um, some of you might remember last year for World Rail Day. That was all I read that in rail. You know, I was talking about rail and I was reading it in braille because otherwise I would have had to remember it, which wouldn't have been so good. So in spite of the challenges, it really has brought a lot of benefits and it really has changed my life.

I don't even know how many volumes that came in, but oh my God, that was like Christmas. And Christmas had happened the month before and I just I went 2.0, Christmas 2.0. I know it was January. And when you have been wanting to read something for yourself and really, you know, if I if Braille had not been invented, I would not have those experiences. I mean, it really did change my life, you know, it it brought books to me like it made books accessible. I didn't have to just wait until I could get them on tape at the Swan Hill Library. They would turn up at my school and I could read them. And even now, you know, even now I use Braille because if I have, um, a presentation that I have to give or a script or, you know, anything that I have to, that I have to be able to read it out. I just, I type it up and I read it out in Braille with my fingers, because otherwise I had to spend a lot of time memorizing it, which would. Make me terribly, terribly nervous. And that Braille essay that I read out. Um, some of you might remember last year for World Rail Day. That was all I read that in rail. You know, I was talking about rail and I was reading it in braille because otherwise I would have had to remember it, which wouldn't have been so good. So in spite of the challenges, it really has brought a lot of benefits and it really has changed my life.

That does sound like there have been a lot of benefits. And, um, despite those challenges that you have talked about, it really does sound like it has changed your life. And that's fantastic to hear and all the exciting, you know, memorable experiences that you've had over the past 26 years reading, um, reading in Braille. So that's, um, fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing all, um, all those experiences with us. Tess, that was Tess Herbert there a voice quite a few of you, I'm sure, are familiar with talking to me today about her Braille reading experiences over the past two and a half decades. Test. Thank you so much for being here on our special World Braille Day episode of Talking Vision.

That does sound like there have been a lot of benefits. And, um, despite those challenges that you have talked about, it really does sound like it has changed your life. And that's fantastic to hear and all the exciting, you know, memorable experiences that you've had over the past 26 years reading, um, reading in Braille. So that's, um, fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing all, um, all those experiences with us. Tess, that was Tess Herbert there a voice quite a few of you, I'm sure, are familiar with talking to me today about her Braille reading experiences over the past two and a half decades. Test. Thank you so much for being here on our special World Braille Day episode of Talking Vision.

Thank you for having me, Sam, and happy World Braille Day, everyone. And let's let's make sure every year that we never forget how important Braille is, because Braille is so important from just a literacy point of view, and because you'll never, no matter how quickly you can read through a book on your screen reader, you will never be able to replace the experience of actually feeling the words right in front of you. So let's let's never forget how important that is. And happy World Braille Day.

Thank you for having me, Sam, and happy World Braille Day, everyone. And let's let's make sure every year that we never forget how important Braille is, because Braille is so important from just a literacy point of view, and because you'll never, no matter how quickly you can read through a book on your screen reader, you will never be able to replace the experience of actually feeling the words right in front of you. So let's let's never forget how important that is. And happy World Braille Day.

I'm Sam Corley and you're listening to Talking Vision on Vision Australia Radio, associated stations of RPA and the Community Radio Network. I hope you're enjoying this special World Braille Day episode of Talking Vision. We just heard from Tess Herbert there, but if you missed any part of that conversation with Tess, or you'd love to have a listen again. Talking vision is available on the Vision Australia Radio website at RVA radio.org. That's RVA radio.org. Or you can find the show on the podcast app of your choice or through the Vision Australia library. And now here's Stella Glory with musician, teacher and Braille music icon Dorothy Hamilton.

I'm Sam Corley and you're listening to Talking Vision on Vision Australia Radio, associated stations of RPA and the Community Radio Network. I hope you're enjoying this special World Braille Day episode of Talking Vision. We just heard from Tess Herbert there, but if you missed any part of that conversation with Tess, or you'd love to have a listen again. Talking vision is available on the Vision Australia Radio website at RVA radio.org. That's RVA radio.org. Or you can find the show on the podcast app of your choice or through the Vision Australia library. And now here's Stella Glory with musician, teacher and Braille music icon Dorothy Hamilton.

We are dedicating Talking Vision today to Braille in general and when I think of Braille and Braille music, I always think of Dorothy Hamilton, who is with me now to discuss Braille. Thanks for your time today, Dorothy.

We are dedicating Talking Vision today to Braille in general and when I think of Braille and Braille music, I always think of Dorothy Hamilton, who is with me now to discuss Braille. Thanks for your time today, Dorothy.

It's a pleasure.

It's a pleasure.

I should actually, uh, let's give the listeners a little bit more context. So you are, um, a Braille music teacher or just a music teacher in general, I should say? Yes.

I should actually, uh, let's give the listeners a little bit more context. So you are, um, a Braille music teacher or just a music teacher in general, I should say? Yes.

I'm a music teacher, and I have taught Brown music as well.

I'm a music teacher, and I have taught Brown music as well.

And you are also the first blind woman in the southern hemisphere to get your Bachelor of Music.

And you are also the first blind woman in the southern hemisphere to get your Bachelor of Music.

Yes, I believe so.

Yes, I believe so.

So you wouldn't have done it without Braille, I understand.

So you wouldn't have done it without Braille, I understand.

I just could not have done anything. I couldn't have coped in life without Braille. I used it every day of my life.

I just could not have done anything. I couldn't have coped in life without Braille. I used it every day of my life.

Let's talk a little bit about that. You were a big fan, and you used of the frame and stylus?

Let's talk a little bit about that. You were a big fan, and you used of the frame and stylus?

Yes. When I went to school right back in 1932, that's when we learned our braille with using the braille frame and stylus. The frame, uh, represented. It was a wooden board with holes down either side. And it had a guide which had six dots. Uh, in a cell, 25 cells in a line. And there were two lines. So when you finished writing in the one line, uh, one, uh, set of lines, uh, you moved the guide down to the next lot of holes so that in the end, then we had a whole page. The little cells in the guide had six little niches now called one, two, three, four, five, six. But we called them top right, middle right, bottom right, top left, middle left, bottom left. And that's how we. So we dotted each little, um letter, each dot to make a letter. For example we would do .145 for the letter D or perhaps .123 for L. And but of course we'd say top right, middle right, bottom right.

Yes. When I went to school right back in 1932, that's when we learned our braille with using the braille frame and stylus. The frame, uh, represented. It was a wooden board with holes down either side. And it had a guide which had six dots. Uh, in a cell, 25 cells in a line. And there were two lines. So when you finished writing in the one line, uh, one, uh, set of lines, uh, you moved the guide down to the next lot of holes so that in the end, then we had a whole page. The little cells in the guide had six little niches now called one, two, three, four, five, six. But we called them top right, middle right, bottom right, top left, middle left, bottom left. And that's how we. So we dotted each little, um letter, each dot to make a letter. For example we would do .145 for the letter D or perhaps .123 for L. And but of course we'd say top right, middle right, bottom right.

When you're saying this, do you think there's people listening, nodding their heads to this old frame and stylus users?

When you're saying this, do you think there's people listening, nodding their heads to this old frame and stylus users?

Oh, maybe summer.

Oh, maybe summer.

But, uh, you said you used the frame and stylus up until 1977, so all the way through university. And something happened when the Perkins Broilers was in Australia in the 1960s. But you weren't using it, but you were kind of pushed into using the Perkins Brailler. Can you tell us that story?

But, uh, you said you used the frame and stylus up until 1977, so all the way through university. And something happened when the Perkins Broilers was in Australia in the 1960s. But you weren't using it, but you were kind of pushed into using the Perkins Brailler. Can you tell us that story?

Yes, it's still said. I used the frame and style right up to 1977. I had no need to use anything else. Um, in 1976, George Findley, who was a well-known Braille musician and he did all the Brown music transcribing, said to me one day, you know, you'll have to learn to use this, this Perkins, everybody else's. So he showed me how to use it. Then he gave me one and he said, now put your frame and style away, and you use only the Perkins. So he went out the door and I thought, that's what he thinks. So I put the Perkins away and used to frame and style. I was very. Comfortable with that. 12 months later, the phone rang one night and it was his reader who said to me, George is very, very ill, and we're in the midst of doing a very important piece of music. Could I come around and dictated to you? I said yes, but my heart sank because I'd forgotten how to even put the paper into the Bergen's. So I quickly rang a friend and said, Hilda, Hilda, how do I put the paper in? Marge came the next day and read the music to me. I will remember it forever.

Yes, it's still said. I used the frame and style right up to 1977. I had no need to use anything else. Um, in 1976, George Findley, who was a well-known Braille musician and he did all the Brown music transcribing, said to me one day, you know, you'll have to learn to use this, this Perkins, everybody else's. So he showed me how to use it. Then he gave me one and he said, now put your frame and style away, and you use only the Perkins. So he went out the door and I thought, that's what he thinks. So I put the Perkins away and used to frame and style. I was very. Comfortable with that. 12 months later, the phone rang one night and it was his reader who said to me, George is very, very ill, and we're in the midst of doing a very important piece of music. Could I come around and dictated to you? I said yes, but my heart sank because I'd forgotten how to even put the paper into the Bergen's. So I quickly rang a friend and said, Hilda, Hilda, how do I put the paper in? Marge came the next day and read the music to me. I will remember it forever.

So Marge was your reader?

So Marge was your reader?

It was. Yes. Well, she was George's reader. And so she read this piece to me, and I had to. It was a massive undertaking, I can tell you to just use the Perkins because it was everything was turned around, whereas we had on the right hand side of the using the frame and style was one, two, three and that and then the left hand side of the so 4 or 5, six when you use the Perkins it was reversed. So one, two, three was on the left and four, five, six on the right. So I can tell you it was not an easy undertaking, but it taught me a lesson.

It was. Yes. Well, she was George's reader. And so she read this piece to me, and I had to. It was a massive undertaking, I can tell you to just use the Perkins because it was everything was turned around, whereas we had on the right hand side of the using the frame and style was one, two, three and that and then the left hand side of the so 4 or 5, six when you use the Perkins it was reversed. So one, two, three was on the left and four, five, six on the right. So I can tell you it was not an easy undertaking, but it taught me a lesson.

Well, what lesson did it teach you?

Well, what lesson did it teach you?

Give me a lesson. When I'm taught something, use it. Yes. And so of course, the frame and style, if I can explain, was more like you using a pen and peel pencil. And the Perkins was like using the typewriter.

Give me a lesson. When I'm taught something, use it. Yes. And so of course, the frame and style, if I can explain, was more like you using a pen and peel pencil. And the Perkins was like using the typewriter.

Do you feel like you've got a fond affection for the frame and style? Yes. And a bit of a love hate relationship with the Perkins.

Do you feel like you've got a fond affection for the frame and style? Yes. And a bit of a love hate relationship with the Perkins.

Well, the. Yes, it's a bit noisy, but of course, I was the Prime Minister. And of course, if you remember, when I went to university, I had to take my frame and style to the lectures and dot out everything. Wow. So that. Yeah, but I'm very pleased that I've experienced all systems.

Well, the. Yes, it's a bit noisy, but of course, I was the Prime Minister. And of course, if you remember, when I went to university, I had to take my frame and style to the lectures and dot out everything. Wow. So that. Yeah, but I'm very pleased that I've experienced all systems.

Now we do need to talk about or I really want to talk about your music broiling. Like, what do you use to.

Now we do need to talk about or I really want to talk about your music broiling. Like, what do you use to.

Well, now, when I first learned the piano, we all learned piano at school, and the teacher would, um, tell us what the notes to play and also play them on the other piano. So I trained our ear very well. But we were we learnt by rote, we learnt brown music, but we didn't really put it to practical use, we just learnt it. Um, it wasn't till I was about was 14 and went to a sighted teacher at the Conservatorium, and he sent me so much work to do that I couldn't rely on somebody just playing it to me and learning it by rote. So I had to learn it and learn it well and correctly, everything correctly. And that got me really moving and using my brown music. And I can tell you I use it every day, just about I certainly use Braille every day, and I have had an enormous amount of use out of Braille music, not only learning it myself, but teaching it to others.

Well, now, when I first learned the piano, we all learned piano at school, and the teacher would, um, tell us what the notes to play and also play them on the other piano. So I trained our ear very well. But we were we learnt by rote, we learnt brown music, but we didn't really put it to practical use, we just learnt it. Um, it wasn't till I was about was 14 and went to a sighted teacher at the Conservatorium, and he sent me so much work to do that I couldn't rely on somebody just playing it to me and learning it by rote. So I had to learn it and learn it well and correctly, everything correctly. And that got me really moving and using my brown music. And I can tell you I use it every day, just about I certainly use Braille every day, and I have had an enormous amount of use out of Braille music, not only learning it myself, but teaching it to others.

What would you say to someone who's perhaps considering either a a young person or an older person who might have recently lost their vision? Would you say to them about learning Braille? They might think.

What would you say to someone who's perhaps considering either a a young person or an older person who might have recently lost their vision? Would you say to them about learning Braille? They might think.

So. For it really not to have the braille skill means that you can't really be literate. You can't really. You need you can't see a word. You don't know how it's spelt. You need you really. And I think you can't comprehend things much better if you've been able to read it yourself. That's how I find it.

So. For it really not to have the braille skill means that you can't really be literate. You can't really. You need you can't see a word. You don't know how it's spelt. You need you really. And I think you can't comprehend things much better if you've been able to read it yourself. That's how I find it.

Dorothy Hamilton, it's always a pleasure having you on the program. It's been a long time since you were on last. And Dorothy Hamilton, who is a musician in her own right and also a Braille music teacher and a Braille transcriber. Thanks for your time today.

Dorothy Hamilton, it's always a pleasure having you on the program. It's been a long time since you were on last. And Dorothy Hamilton, who is a musician in her own right and also a Braille music teacher and a Braille transcriber. Thanks for your time today.

Thank you. Stella, it's been a pleasure.

Thank you. Stella, it's been a pleasure.

That was stellar glory with Braille musician, teacher, and lifelong Braille music advocate Dorothy Hamilton there. Dorothy has had a long standing association with the Braille music camps, which take place every year in Mittagong. One of the aspects of those camps is, of course, the opportunity for young musicians who are blind or have low vision to take part in a choir, to learn new songs and harness their newfound love for Braille music and a choral setting. And on that note, here is a piece from the Royal Music Choir in 2017 entitled How Lovely Are the Messengers.

That was stellar glory with Braille musician, teacher, and lifelong Braille music advocate Dorothy Hamilton there. Dorothy has had a long standing association with the Braille music camps, which take place every year in Mittagong. One of the aspects of those camps is, of course, the opportunity for young musicians who are blind or have low vision to take part in a choir, to learn new songs and harness their newfound love for Braille music and a choral setting. And on that note, here is a piece from the Royal Music Choir in 2017 entitled How Lovely Are the Messengers.

We are the messengers to. All of these above, we are the messengers that reach us. The gospel of peace, the gospel of all. We are the passengers that preach the gospel. It's just that we. Oh. All nations before the sound of the world. Throw away. Some of the some of the songs. That are beyond the messengers that reach us. The gospel. To the passengers. One of the things that brings us to the. For me to. Most of the. Away from all the noise. It was to other nations before the start of the first half of this. One of the nations is one of the. Us and all the. Us and the timing of the of the message of the. For me. Maybe they. To preach the gospel of the Kingdom. Preached of the Gospel of Jesus.

We are the messengers to. All of these above, we are the messengers that reach us. The gospel of peace, the gospel of all. We are the passengers that preach the gospel. It's just that we. Oh. All nations before the sound of the world. Throw away. Some of the some of the songs. That are beyond the messengers that reach us. The gospel. To the passengers. One of the things that brings us to the. For me to. Most of the. Away from all the noise. It was to other nations before the start of the first half of this. One of the nations is one of the. Us and all the. Us and the timing of the of the message of the. For me. Maybe they. To preach the gospel of the Kingdom. Preached of the Gospel of Jesus.

And that concludes our special World Braille Day episode of Talking Vision. Talking vision is a production of Vision Australia Radio. Thanks to all involved with putting the program together. And remember, we love your feedback and comments. You can get in touch with us by email on Talking Vision at Vision australia.org. That's talking vision or one word at Vision australia.org. But until next week it's bye for now and Happy World Braille Day.

And that concludes our special World Braille Day episode of Talking Vision. Talking vision is a production of Vision Australia Radio. Thanks to all involved with putting the program together. And remember, we love your feedback and comments. You can get in touch with us by email on Talking Vision at Vision australia.org. That's talking vision or one word at Vision australia.org. But until next week it's bye for now and Happy World Braille Day.

You can contact Virgin Australia by phoning us anytime during business hours on one 308 40746. That's one 384 746 or by visiting Vision australia.org that's Vision Australia call.

You can contact Virgin Australia by phoning us anytime during business hours on one 308 40746. That's one 384 746 or by visiting Vision australia.org that's Vision Australia call.