From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam. Colleague.

From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam. Colleague.

Hello everyone. It's great to be here with you. And for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness and low vision. Welcome to this special holiday edition of Talking Vision. Today we feature two interviews from the year just gone, starting off with Matt Foremost and the star of surfing in the dark, the first book in the three part Big Vision series, which launched earlier this year. Matt joined me along with his mum Lorraine to catch up just after the book launched and you'll hear from him once more very shortly. Then, after you hear from Matt and Lorraine, I spoke with Nicole Lee, president of people with Disabilities Australia, who I caught up with early in October following the publication of the final report from the Disability Royal Commission on the 29th of September. I hope you enjoyed this special holiday episode of Talking Vision. I began the interview with Matt by asking him about the motivation behind surfing in the dark and why he got involved.

Hello everyone. It's great to be here with you. And for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness and low vision. Welcome to this special holiday edition of Talking Vision. Today we feature two interviews from the year just gone, starting off with Matt Foremost and the star of surfing in the dark, the first book in the three part Big Vision series, which launched earlier this year. Matt joined me along with his mum Lorraine to catch up just after the book launched and you'll hear from him once more very shortly. Then, after you hear from Matt and Lorraine, I spoke with Nicole Lee, president of people with Disabilities Australia, who I caught up with early in October following the publication of the final report from the Disability Royal Commission on the 29th of September. I hope you enjoyed this special holiday episode of Talking Vision. I began the interview with Matt by asking him about the motivation behind surfing in the dark and why he got involved.

Very honoured and grateful that Vision Australia reached out to me to to be part of the series, to sort of showcase my life and some of the, I suppose, the ups and the downs that I've had. But um, why wouldn't I be involved? It's such, such an honour to be part of this, to be featured in the first ever book in Australia that features both text, images and Braille. Um, it's simply an honour and I'm just grateful to be a part of it.

Very honoured and grateful that Vision Australia reached out to me to to be part of the series, to sort of showcase my life and some of the, I suppose, the ups and the downs that I've had. But um, why wouldn't I be involved? It's such, such an honour to be part of this, to be featured in the first ever book in Australia that features both text, images and Braille. Um, it's simply an honour and I'm just grateful to be a part of it.

And let's go back to the very beginning, when you sort of got involved with surfing at a very young age, but you're also grappling with the vision loss diagnosis at age five. What was that like to sort of be balancing all the active things you were doing with, you know, rugby and surfing and what have you, and being an active little boy, but also with the vision loss, what was that like to cope with?

And let's go back to the very beginning, when you sort of got involved with surfing at a very young age, but you're also grappling with the vision loss diagnosis at age five. What was that like to sort of be balancing all the active things you were doing with, you know, rugby and surfing and what have you, and being an active little boy, but also with the vision loss, what was that like to cope with?

I mean, it was it was challenging. But I think, you know, all anything in life you can look at as a challenge or as easy. But when my mum's here with me today, my family, her and my dad would was not about your blind. You can't do that. It was let's just do it. And if there's a problem, we'll work it out. So that was what the focus wasn't. Wasn't on the fact that I was blind and there was challenges. The focus was more on what do you want to do? Just like my siblings and friends. So, um, I didn't focus on it too much, to be honest. I was just focusing on having fun and playing with my friends.

I mean, it was it was challenging. But I think, you know, all anything in life you can look at as a challenge or as easy. But when my mum's here with me today, my family, her and my dad would was not about your blind. You can't do that. It was let's just do it. And if there's a problem, we'll work it out. So that was what the focus wasn't. Wasn't on the fact that I was blind and there was challenges. The focus was more on what do you want to do? Just like my siblings and friends. So, um, I didn't focus on it too much, to be honest. I was just focusing on having fun and playing with my friends.

And so, Lauren, what was that whole time period like for you as well as a mum? You'd probably have a few worries and things here and there about, oh, you know, what's going to happen and like, what can Matt do? But it's also a credit to you and the family for saying, you know, Matt can do this. There was never that whole phrase of Matt can't do that, Matt can't do this. And I think that really speaks to me. And it's something really important to spread that message as well.

And so, Lauren, what was that whole time period like for you as well as a mum? You'd probably have a few worries and things here and there about, oh, you know, what's going to happen and like, what can Matt do? But it's also a credit to you and the family for saying, you know, Matt can do this. There was never that whole phrase of Matt can't do that, Matt can't do this. And I think that really speaks to me. And it's something really important to spread that message as well.

Well, I was asked when Matthew was diagnosed at five, the district nurse rang me and said, do you want to come and talk about it? And I said, no, Matthew's very capable child. I'll just go along with him. And when he has problems, then we'll talk about it. And Matthew was so adept at everything. We never got to that conversation.

Well, I was asked when Matthew was diagnosed at five, the district nurse rang me and said, do you want to come and talk about it? And I said, no, Matthew's very capable child. I'll just go along with him. And when he has problems, then we'll talk about it. And Matthew was so adept at everything. We never got to that conversation.

Oh that's wonderful. That's really good to hear. So also, Matt, I just want to come back to you now. One of the main purposes of the book is to help children who are blind or have low vision, understand that living with blindness or low vision doesn't have to be a barrier to achieving their goals. And it's really important for people with lived experience of blindness or low vision to have that representation in children's materials. Was that another reason as to why you did get involved?

Oh that's wonderful. That's really good to hear. So also, Matt, I just want to come back to you now. One of the main purposes of the book is to help children who are blind or have low vision, understand that living with blindness or low vision doesn't have to be a barrier to achieving their goals. And it's really important for people with lived experience of blindness or low vision to have that representation in children's materials. Was that another reason as to why you did get involved?

Well, I'm just sort of honored to be part of it. It was as soon as I was asked to be part of this, I said yes, and I'm just privileged to be part of it. But, I mean, obviously, I'm very honoured that my story is being showcased. There's so many stories, I think, of people with blindness and low vision in Australia and globally that could showcase resilience and could showcase the can spirit and not focus on can't. Um, so, you know, I just want to acknowledge that, you know, I'm very privileged that my story has been showcased and that there are lots of other stories that could have been in that situation. And, look, I take it as a great privilege, but also as a responsibility to, you know, help educate the next generation that it's not all gloom. There are just if you want to do something, you can do it. You just have to find a way, and your way might be a bit different to somebody else's way. And that's just not. That's not just because you're visually impaired, that this could be because you live further out of town. We're all different as human beings. And, you know, we all have to approach things in different ways.

Well, I'm just sort of honored to be part of it. It was as soon as I was asked to be part of this, I said yes, and I'm just privileged to be part of it. But, I mean, obviously, I'm very honoured that my story is being showcased. There's so many stories, I think, of people with blindness and low vision in Australia and globally that could showcase resilience and could showcase the can spirit and not focus on can't. Um, so, you know, I just want to acknowledge that, you know, I'm very privileged that my story has been showcased and that there are lots of other stories that could have been in that situation. And, look, I take it as a great privilege, but also as a responsibility to, you know, help educate the next generation that it's not all gloom. There are just if you want to do something, you can do it. You just have to find a way, and your way might be a bit different to somebody else's way. And that's just not. That's not just because you're visually impaired, that this could be because you live further out of town. We're all different as human beings. And, you know, we all have to approach things in different ways.

And, Matt, we've talked about the importance from within the blind and low vision community, but there's also perceptions from the general public that still do need to be changed a little bit about what people who are blind or have low vision can achieve. So what sort of experiences have you had from that side of things with sort of people, from the general public having certain perceptions of what you can and can't do? Is that sort of come across your wavelength at any point?

And, Matt, we've talked about the importance from within the blind and low vision community, but there's also perceptions from the general public that still do need to be changed a little bit about what people who are blind or have low vision can achieve. So what sort of experiences have you had from that side of things with sort of people, from the general public having certain perceptions of what you can and can't do? Is that sort of come across your wavelength at any point?

Yeah, a lot. As a businessman, I work in, in the corporate space for, for a ICT organisation, but I also sit on a few boards and I'm obviously heavily involved in as an ambassador in multiple disability sectors. But I think there's two parts to it. There's the community at large and large organisations not understanding what blindness is and and what it isn't. But there's also, I think, a lot of misconception within the blind and low vision community around what is possible. So and I think they both need to be addressed. The peace around, um, the community at large understanding is really tricky. And I think this, this book series is a great step towards educating people as to, you know, it showcases someone that goes surfing and cycling. Um, someone who's, who's who's a chef and uses feel and and smell and someone who's an artist and makes beautiful garments using texture and feel. And I think it's showcasing the benefits of the disability that is really important to help the community. It's also to, to showcase to to organizations that are employing people with disabilities. I mean, I grew up not being able to read. I'd never learnt Braille. So I went and I went through mainstream schooling in the 80s, which was not done at the time. But because of that, I listened and ask questions through my whole education. So by the time I had finished school, I had a 20 year degree in sales. I've been asking and listening, you know, so I think we're not going to be very successful in sales. And my corporate career and my counterparts just could not have had the experience that I have in, in, in listening and asking questions, which I was forced to attain because of my disability. So I think if we focus more on what the benefits of, of our diversity. So because we're different and we have a, uh, one of our parts doesn't work, it means that we have to make other parts work better. And if we can showcase that to the community and to corporates and to anywhere we're going in life and focus on the positives, I think that's the way forward. And I think this book series is a great way to start that conversation.

Yeah, a lot. As a businessman, I work in, in the corporate space for, for a ICT organisation, but I also sit on a few boards and I'm obviously heavily involved in as an ambassador in multiple disability sectors. But I think there's two parts to it. There's the community at large and large organisations not understanding what blindness is and and what it isn't. But there's also, I think, a lot of misconception within the blind and low vision community around what is possible. So and I think they both need to be addressed. The peace around, um, the community at large understanding is really tricky. And I think this, this book series is a great step towards educating people as to, you know, it showcases someone that goes surfing and cycling. Um, someone who's, who's who's a chef and uses feel and and smell and someone who's an artist and makes beautiful garments using texture and feel. And I think it's showcasing the benefits of the disability that is really important to help the community. It's also to, to showcase to to organizations that are employing people with disabilities. I mean, I grew up not being able to read. I'd never learnt Braille. So I went and I went through mainstream schooling in the 80s, which was not done at the time. But because of that, I listened and ask questions through my whole education. So by the time I had finished school, I had a 20 year degree in sales. I've been asking and listening, you know, so I think we're not going to be very successful in sales. And my corporate career and my counterparts just could not have had the experience that I have in, in, in listening and asking questions, which I was forced to attain because of my disability. So I think if we focus more on what the benefits of, of our diversity. So because we're different and we have a, uh, one of our parts doesn't work, it means that we have to make other parts work better. And if we can showcase that to the community and to corporates and to anywhere we're going in life and focus on the positives, I think that's the way forward. And I think this book series is a great way to start that conversation.

And Lorraine will come to you. Now, what sort of things do you have to say about, you know, the importance of letting your son or daughter, who might have low vision if there's parents out there listening and the sort of maybe at the early stages of working through diagnosis and what it all means, what do you have to say, I guess, around that.

And Lorraine will come to you. Now, what sort of things do you have to say about, you know, the importance of letting your son or daughter, who might have low vision if there's parents out there listening and the sort of maybe at the early stages of working through diagnosis and what it all means, what do you have to say, I guess, around that.

Well, I just think that experiencing everything. So as Matthew said, textiles. Well, even just going out and feeling nature and being so going, walking, allow them to be in the park and going like walking or climbing or all those things, so that even with low vision that they can just feel and not being, I think as a parent it is very scary for them and the unknown, like, what is this child going to do? Like we were told Matthew wouldn't be able to drive a car. He'd never have much of an education. He'd never play sport. Well, that all was wrong, but that's what we were told. Um, so I think you've got to.

Well, I just think that experiencing everything. So as Matthew said, textiles. Well, even just going out and feeling nature and being so going, walking, allow them to be in the park and going like walking or climbing or all those things, so that even with low vision that they can just feel and not being, I think as a parent it is very scary for them and the unknown, like, what is this child going to do? Like we were told Matthew wouldn't be able to drive a car. He'd never have much of an education. He'd never play sport. Well, that all was wrong, but that's what we were told. Um, so I think you've got to.

Drive a car.

Drive a car.

I know he will in the future, get a car that drives itself.

I know he will in the future, get a car that drives itself.

That's right. I'm looking forward to that day. Yeah.

That's right. I'm looking forward to that day. Yeah.

Um, so my feeling is just you as a parent can feel what's right and give the child as much opportunity to experience as much as they can in their world. So don't intimidate them by being too protective. Just give as much space. So normally, just keep opening the fences till they can get out in the big wide yonder. So that would be my advice just to give them as much experience and as much, you know, freedom as is capable, that the child won't harm themselves.

Um, so my feeling is just you as a parent can feel what's right and give the child as much opportunity to experience as much as they can in their world. So don't intimidate them by being too protective. Just give as much space. So normally, just keep opening the fences till they can get out in the big wide yonder. So that would be my advice just to give them as much experience and as much, you know, freedom as is capable, that the child won't harm themselves.

If I can just add to that, I think there's a and I didn't know about this until I was an adult, but when I started playing rugby league football, dad was talking to a few of the other dads and they said, Does Matt have any friends that want to play rugby league? Because the their son's team needed a few extra players and he said, oh, Matt will play. And the way that these dads responded to him was saying, oh no, Don, your son's visually impaired. He's he's blind. He won't be able to to play. He'll get hurt. He'll be you're putting. And so the I suppose the narrative of that is there's telling him that he's putting his son in harm's way and he's a bad parent because he's putting his child in harm's way. And I think that's a fear as well for parents that they not just that their child might get hurt, but they could be seen to be being reckless, letting their child with a disability do something where they might get hurt. But I think the reality if you flip, that is what my dad was doing by letting me play rugby league and my mum was doing was giving me an opportunity rather than putting me in harm's way. And, you know, I went and played that sport and I was very good at that sport. I ended up playing that at a representative level. But if they never took that risk and the risk was obviously that I could get hurt, and the risk is that they could look like reckless parents because they were putting me in harm's way, then they wouldn't have given me that opportunity, which, you know, I think that opportunity has set me up in my life. I got to play in that team, which taught me about the, you know, working with the team, uh, being responsible, you know, ownership, turning up on time, all these things that you learn when you're a part of a team. And I think also training hard. And that set me up to be the athlete that I am today and cycling and surfing.

If I can just add to that, I think there's a and I didn't know about this until I was an adult, but when I started playing rugby league football, dad was talking to a few of the other dads and they said, Does Matt have any friends that want to play rugby league? Because the their son's team needed a few extra players and he said, oh, Matt will play. And the way that these dads responded to him was saying, oh no, Don, your son's visually impaired. He's he's blind. He won't be able to to play. He'll get hurt. He'll be you're putting. And so the I suppose the narrative of that is there's telling him that he's putting his son in harm's way and he's a bad parent because he's putting his child in harm's way. And I think that's a fear as well for parents that they not just that their child might get hurt, but they could be seen to be being reckless, letting their child with a disability do something where they might get hurt. But I think the reality if you flip, that is what my dad was doing by letting me play rugby league and my mum was doing was giving me an opportunity rather than putting me in harm's way. And, you know, I went and played that sport and I was very good at that sport. I ended up playing that at a representative level. But if they never took that risk and the risk was obviously that I could get hurt, and the risk is that they could look like reckless parents because they were putting me in harm's way, then they wouldn't have given me that opportunity, which, you know, I think that opportunity has set me up in my life. I got to play in that team, which taught me about the, you know, working with the team, uh, being responsible, you know, ownership, turning up on time, all these things that you learn when you're a part of a team. And I think also training hard. And that set me up to be the athlete that I am today and cycling and surfing.

All right. And Matt, we'll talk about the book a little bit now and I won't give too much away. I want people out there to check it out and give it a read and. Hear all about your story, but you speak in there about how the ocean tells you things, that speaks to you when you're out on the water. So could you sort of go into a bit of detail around that? Because that's quite interesting. Yeah.

All right. And Matt, we'll talk about the book a little bit now and I won't give too much away. I want people out there to check it out and give it a read and. Hear all about your story, but you speak in there about how the ocean tells you things, that speaks to you when you're out on the water. So could you sort of go into a bit of detail around that? Because that's quite interesting. Yeah.

So I mean, people always walk up to me and say, how do you surf? Because I've got on my on my wetsuits and my rash face. I've got Blind surfer and really big text. And, you know, some people know who I am. So they kind of say, how do you surf when you can't see? It's crazy. I don't understand, but most sighted people that surf really well will end up staying out one day. And we say when it's pumping and that means the waves are really good. And they'll say until the sun goes down into the dark and then they end up surfing in the dark. I just surf in the dark every day. And that's, I think that's it's a very apt name for the book surfing in the dark. And I say to them, well, what what did it feel like when you were surfing in the dark? And they said, oh yeah. It was this feeling of weightlessness. I was just floating. And because I can't see the wave, and that's what I feel every day when I surf. So the way the ocean talks to me in ways of their sound and the energy. So as I'm paddling out through the waves, instead of seeing the white water coming towards me, I hear it. And then at the last minute I feel the water sucking towards the wave because the white, the wave actually sucks water back towards it as it gets close to you. And then as a wave is coming, it goes, you know, I'm sitting at the back, it goes up and down and I feel there's a bigger waves coming. You go down further and up, it's a bigger drop, and then you go up steep because the waves wanting to break on the bank. So there's all these little, little nuances that you learn to over years and hours and hours and hours. And, you know, for me, thousands of hours of surfing. I'm now dialed into the ocean through sound and feel, and I can navigate through the ocean using sound and feel as well, or better than a lot of sighted people.

So I mean, people always walk up to me and say, how do you surf? Because I've got on my on my wetsuits and my rash face. I've got Blind surfer and really big text. And, you know, some people know who I am. So they kind of say, how do you surf when you can't see? It's crazy. I don't understand, but most sighted people that surf really well will end up staying out one day. And we say when it's pumping and that means the waves are really good. And they'll say until the sun goes down into the dark and then they end up surfing in the dark. I just surf in the dark every day. And that's, I think that's it's a very apt name for the book surfing in the dark. And I say to them, well, what what did it feel like when you were surfing in the dark? And they said, oh yeah. It was this feeling of weightlessness. I was just floating. And because I can't see the wave, and that's what I feel every day when I surf. So the way the ocean talks to me in ways of their sound and the energy. So as I'm paddling out through the waves, instead of seeing the white water coming towards me, I hear it. And then at the last minute I feel the water sucking towards the wave because the white, the wave actually sucks water back towards it as it gets close to you. And then as a wave is coming, it goes, you know, I'm sitting at the back, it goes up and down and I feel there's a bigger waves coming. You go down further and up, it's a bigger drop, and then you go up steep because the waves wanting to break on the bank. So there's all these little, little nuances that you learn to over years and hours and hours and hours. And, you know, for me, thousands of hours of surfing. I'm now dialed into the ocean through sound and feel, and I can navigate through the ocean using sound and feel as well, or better than a lot of sighted people.

So the books are being sold across Australia, and the proceeds from sales do go towards supporting the vital services that Vision Australia provides for people who are blind or have low vision. And as you've mentioned, they'll feature Braille, so they allow children or parents who are Braille readers to read along together and and so they are available now for people to go and pick up a copy and have a read and share with their kids or, you know, people in their friend groups who may be interested to hear about these stories. So we do encourage people to get out to their retailer, but also go through the Vision Australia library or the vision Store to pick up a copy of surfing in the dark featuring Matt Thomsen, who have been speaking with today alongside his mum Lorraine. I'm Sam Corley and you're listening to Talking Vision on Vision Australia. Radio associated stations of RPA and the Community Radio Network. I hope you're enjoying this special holiday edition of Talking Vision. We just heard from Matt and Lorraine Foreman. They're chatting all about surfing in the dark, the first edition of the three part Big Visions book series, which launched over the course of this year. As always, if you missed any part of the episode today or you'd love to listen to it again, Talking Vision is available on the podcast app of your choice or through the Vision Australia library. And now here's Nicole Lee, President of people with Disabilities Australia, chatting to me about the recent Disability Royal commission. I began by asking Nicole to give us a quick overview of the Disability Royal Commission and the final report in particular.

So the books are being sold across Australia, and the proceeds from sales do go towards supporting the vital services that Vision Australia provides for people who are blind or have low vision. And as you've mentioned, they'll feature Braille, so they allow children or parents who are Braille readers to read along together and and so they are available now for people to go and pick up a copy and have a read and share with their kids or, you know, people in their friend groups who may be interested to hear about these stories. So we do encourage people to get out to their retailer, but also go through the Vision Australia library or the vision Store to pick up a copy of surfing in the dark featuring Matt Thomsen, who have been speaking with today alongside his mum Lorraine. I'm Sam Corley and you're listening to Talking Vision on Vision Australia. Radio associated stations of RPA and the Community Radio Network. I hope you're enjoying this special holiday edition of Talking Vision. We just heard from Matt and Lorraine Foreman. They're chatting all about surfing in the dark, the first edition of the three part Big Visions book series, which launched over the course of this year. As always, if you missed any part of the episode today or you'd love to listen to it again, Talking Vision is available on the podcast app of your choice or through the Vision Australia library. And now here's Nicole Lee, President of people with Disabilities Australia, chatting to me about the recent Disability Royal commission. I began by asking Nicole to give us a quick overview of the Disability Royal Commission and the final report in particular.

Yeah, sure. So the Disability Royal Commission was established back in 2019. So it's been going for four and a half years roughly, um, where they've held public hearings, including through lots of Covid lockdowns. So they had to pivot to doing a lot of things online. They've had private hearings and issued lots of papers. So I think there's 7944 submissions that they received, 17,824 phone inquiries, 14 issue papers published, 70 responses to issue papers and 1785 private sessions were held in that four and a half years. So it's quite a substantial piece of work that they've undertaken over the last four and a half years. And so that's resulted in the report that was handed down last Friday, the 29th of September, that contained 222 recommendations. And it was roughly was it 13 volumes? I think, from memory. So quite a big report, you could say.

Yeah, sure. So the Disability Royal Commission was established back in 2019. So it's been going for four and a half years roughly, um, where they've held public hearings, including through lots of Covid lockdowns. So they had to pivot to doing a lot of things online. They've had private hearings and issued lots of papers. So I think there's 7944 submissions that they received, 17,824 phone inquiries, 14 issue papers published, 70 responses to issue papers and 1785 private sessions were held in that four and a half years. So it's quite a substantial piece of work that they've undertaken over the last four and a half years. And so that's resulted in the report that was handed down last Friday, the 29th of September, that contained 222 recommendations. And it was roughly was it 13 volumes? I think, from memory. So quite a big report, you could say.

Absolutely. And I think it's worth touching on those 222 recommendations. And, you know, what were the sort of key findings and outcomes with those recommendations that have emerged from the Commission that you'd really like to let people know about and to highlight some.

Absolutely. And I think it's worth touching on those 222 recommendations. And, you know, what were the sort of key findings and outcomes with those recommendations that have emerged from the Commission that you'd really like to let people know about and to highlight some.

Of the really big ones, you know, in there, which really are ultimately the low hanging fruit, I guess, in regards to, you know, disability rights is, you know, to establish a human rights framework and a Disability Discrimination Act, you know, a disability rights framework within Australia. So, you know, that isn't something we ultimately, in my opinion, needed a Royal commission to work out that that was something we needed to do. But irrespective of that, we've got, you know, recommendations around that. And the other one was around, um, you know, abolishing forced sterilization of women and girls with disability. Again, that is not something that should have taken a royal commission to come out with that recommendation. And that is something that's been advocated for for many, many, many years. So, you know, we have to see it as a win to actually get it into this report. And hopefully that that recommendation definitely does get actioned on as soon as possible with limited time, I guess. You know, it's not something we need a long plan of action for. They are. They do right now. Easy. There should be no arguments in regards to kind of recommendations. There was the talk around the segregated education, which unfortunately there was a divide amongst the commissioners, and there seems to be a fair amount of debate within the community around, you know, what is segregated education and that, you know, some commissioners didn't want it. Some people in the community don't want it. But ultimately, you know, the disability community does want to see an end to segregation. We do want to see integrated and full inclusion within the whole of society. Unfortunately, the timeline around your abolishing segregated education is 28 years. So kicking the can down the road, so to speak, you know, we need to be making. Yeah, it's a long it's a it's an unambitious very unambitious 28 years. I mean who can think that far ahead. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And and it also leads to your another several lots of generations of children being segregated. You know we've got to look at that as being a basic human right. Not segregating children based on difference. You know, we wouldn't do this for any other cohort. Why should we do this for disability? You know, and if we want to look at the drivers of violence against disability segregation is that big driver of violence against us. And we want to shift community attitudes towards people with disability. Well, we're not going to do that if we're not visible in the world around us. So if we're telling children as young as five or under that those kids are different. So therefore they learn over there in that classroom or in that school over there, and not in the same classroom as you. And we're telling disabled children that you're different and you don't belong. Well, we're setting in stone already at a young age, the fear of disabled people, discrimination of disabled people and reinforcing those stigmas of difference of. People, rather than seeing us as just kids alongside other kids playing in the playground. So that's a really important piece that we, you know, we want to see worked on. But the 28 year mark is far too long. That needs to be a much more ambitious timeline for that one. And the other sort of bits and pieces around segregated housing. Everybody should have the right to choose where they live, who they live with, and how they live their lives and the environments in which they live in. So abolishing group homes is really, really vital now. Like just like anybody else leaving home, some people want to go and live in a share house, but they get a choice in who they live in that share house with. It's the same for disabled people. Some disabled people might want to live with others and share an environment and share a home, but having choice and control over who is in that environment, who lives with you, is the vital piece here that needs to be worked on, that hopefully that that is something that will be prioritized. You know, with the government task force that's been announced that they're looking to set up, unfortunately, we don't have a lot of details around what they mean by that government task force. So far, on the surface value, it has been very much committing to government departments with advice from the disability community. You know, we don't want to be advising from the outside into a task force that's looking at implementing the royal commission. You know, we want broad representation in the room alongside government on how we're implementing this royal commission and its recommendations. So, you know, that task force is a vital piece of the puzzle here so that we are in the room, we're with the decision makers and we are overseeing what do we mean, how do we define segregation on our terms and not what other people define as segregation for us? And that's been a bit of a debate around, you know, education and what other people assume or classify as segregation, um, which isn't necessarily the same as what how we conceptualize segregation.

Of the really big ones, you know, in there, which really are ultimately the low hanging fruit, I guess, in regards to, you know, disability rights is, you know, to establish a human rights framework and a Disability Discrimination Act, you know, a disability rights framework within Australia. So, you know, that isn't something we ultimately, in my opinion, needed a Royal commission to work out that that was something we needed to do. But irrespective of that, we've got, you know, recommendations around that. And the other one was around, um, you know, abolishing forced sterilization of women and girls with disability. Again, that is not something that should have taken a royal commission to come out with that recommendation. And that is something that's been advocated for for many, many, many years. So, you know, we have to see it as a win to actually get it into this report. And hopefully that that recommendation definitely does get actioned on as soon as possible with limited time, I guess. You know, it's not something we need a long plan of action for. They are. They do right now. Easy. There should be no arguments in regards to kind of recommendations. There was the talk around the segregated education, which unfortunately there was a divide amongst the commissioners, and there seems to be a fair amount of debate within the community around, you know, what is segregated education and that, you know, some commissioners didn't want it. Some people in the community don't want it. But ultimately, you know, the disability community does want to see an end to segregation. We do want to see integrated and full inclusion within the whole of society. Unfortunately, the timeline around your abolishing segregated education is 28 years. So kicking the can down the road, so to speak, you know, we need to be making. Yeah, it's a long it's a it's an unambitious very unambitious 28 years. I mean who can think that far ahead. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And and it also leads to your another several lots of generations of children being segregated. You know we've got to look at that as being a basic human right. Not segregating children based on difference. You know, we wouldn't do this for any other cohort. Why should we do this for disability? You know, and if we want to look at the drivers of violence against disability segregation is that big driver of violence against us. And we want to shift community attitudes towards people with disability. Well, we're not going to do that if we're not visible in the world around us. So if we're telling children as young as five or under that those kids are different. So therefore they learn over there in that classroom or in that school over there, and not in the same classroom as you. And we're telling disabled children that you're different and you don't belong. Well, we're setting in stone already at a young age, the fear of disabled people, discrimination of disabled people and reinforcing those stigmas of difference of. People, rather than seeing us as just kids alongside other kids playing in the playground. So that's a really important piece that we, you know, we want to see worked on. But the 28 year mark is far too long. That needs to be a much more ambitious timeline for that one. And the other sort of bits and pieces around segregated housing. Everybody should have the right to choose where they live, who they live with, and how they live their lives and the environments in which they live in. So abolishing group homes is really, really vital now. Like just like anybody else leaving home, some people want to go and live in a share house, but they get a choice in who they live in that share house with. It's the same for disabled people. Some disabled people might want to live with others and share an environment and share a home, but having choice and control over who is in that environment, who lives with you, is the vital piece here that needs to be worked on, that hopefully that that is something that will be prioritized. You know, with the government task force that's been announced that they're looking to set up, unfortunately, we don't have a lot of details around what they mean by that government task force. So far, on the surface value, it has been very much committing to government departments with advice from the disability community. You know, we don't want to be advising from the outside into a task force that's looking at implementing the royal commission. You know, we want broad representation in the room alongside government on how we're implementing this royal commission and its recommendations. So, you know, that task force is a vital piece of the puzzle here so that we are in the room, we're with the decision makers and we are overseeing what do we mean, how do we define segregation on our terms and not what other people define as segregation for us? And that's been a bit of a debate around, you know, education and what other people assume or classify as segregation, um, which isn't necessarily the same as what how we conceptualize segregation.

You've given us quite a great deal of ideas, perspective, and your perspective individually, just there in response to the findings. So thank you very much for that. But I also understand, and I believe you would have been speaking to quite a few organizations and individuals over the past week, following on from the publication of the final report. So what have been the feelings there from your side of things, but also from those who you've spoken to in the sector over the past week?

You've given us quite a great deal of ideas, perspective, and your perspective individually, just there in response to the findings. So thank you very much for that. But I also understand, and I believe you would have been speaking to quite a few organizations and individuals over the past week, following on from the publication of the final report. So what have been the feelings there from your side of things, but also from those who you've spoken to in the sector over the past week?

I think one of the things that's really I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm kind of shocked at that I've seen coming out and from other people in the sector is the fact that we don't have a section on women and girls with disability, considering we experience much higher rates of violence and neglect and abuse than other cohorts in the community, including, you know, quite high rates of sexual violence, we have the lowest rates of education inclusion, and we have the lowest employment rates out of the entire community. Yet there was no discussion in the Royal Commission around bringing up that gender equity piece. So that's kind of disappointing if I can put that sort of side around gender and gender based violence into perspective. Victoria had a Royal Commission into Family Violence that handed down a report in 2016. Now, considering that this is just a royal commission into violence, gender based violence in one state, so one area of our lives, it came out with 227 recommendations. Ten of those were dedicated to people with disability. Now, it's disappointing to see that women and girls and gender diverse people are only mentioned across four recommendations for, you know, the Disability Royal Commission, which is meant to be investigating violence that spans the course of our lifetime. So from birth to the day we die. So it's disappointing to see that that hasn't come through. And this is where we need that representation in the room with that task force, because that conversation needs to be had. Well, yet we want to end violence against all people with disability, but we also want to bring up the equity of women and girls with disability who are experiencing higher rates of violence and sexual violence than other areas of the disability community. And what can we do around prevention and safeguarding for women and girls with disability? So that was one of the big reflections that I've seen come out of the community, you know, noting that, you know, gender based violence is something that I sunk my teeth into when I came into activism as a family violence survivor. So it's something that is very core and personal to me. And it's also the hearing in which I gave my own personal evidence to as well, around the experience of violence against women with disabilities, including my own experience. So that's an area that is lacking that needs to have some uplift in regards to it. And I guess it's good that we're looking at how do we reduce restricted practice, how do we move away from using seclusion and restraints against people with disability? But I don't feel that it quite goes far enough. We don't want to be using language around reducing restrictive practices. We want to be using language around abolishing restrictive practice. We want to be looking at. Pathways with dedicated time frames around, well, how do we end the use of restrictive practice, seclusion and restraint? How do we do that in all environments in which our lives are, you know, situated, including group homes, schools, health and mental health settings across the board and in the justice setting as well, so that all areas are safe for us to engage with because at the moment they're currently not. And unfortunately, it feels like there's just different language being put to services justifying the use of these practices, which do already exist, and they will continue to justify the use of it unless we actually give clear boundaries around no, we don't want to be reducing, we want to be abolishing, and you need to be looking at and addressing the environments in which people are existing in or engaging with services in that lead to an escalation of distress that then leads to the use of restrictive practice. So that's again why we need to be in the room. We need to be defining what that looks like. We need to be putting the language to that. And we need to be setting some clear boundaries around what do we actually mean by, you know, abolishing these things, and how do we go about doing it? And, you know, what are the steps that need to be taken? And the language used to draw a line very clearly in the sand, that there's not going to be any excuses moving forward, that these measures have to be taken and just, you know, putting other words around how to justify the continuation of these forms of practices need to be stamped out.

I think one of the things that's really I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm kind of shocked at that I've seen coming out and from other people in the sector is the fact that we don't have a section on women and girls with disability, considering we experience much higher rates of violence and neglect and abuse than other cohorts in the community, including, you know, quite high rates of sexual violence, we have the lowest rates of education inclusion, and we have the lowest employment rates out of the entire community. Yet there was no discussion in the Royal Commission around bringing up that gender equity piece. So that's kind of disappointing if I can put that sort of side around gender and gender based violence into perspective. Victoria had a Royal Commission into Family Violence that handed down a report in 2016. Now, considering that this is just a royal commission into violence, gender based violence in one state, so one area of our lives, it came out with 227 recommendations. Ten of those were dedicated to people with disability. Now, it's disappointing to see that women and girls and gender diverse people are only mentioned across four recommendations for, you know, the Disability Royal Commission, which is meant to be investigating violence that spans the course of our lifetime. So from birth to the day we die. So it's disappointing to see that that hasn't come through. And this is where we need that representation in the room with that task force, because that conversation needs to be had. Well, yet we want to end violence against all people with disability, but we also want to bring up the equity of women and girls with disability who are experiencing higher rates of violence and sexual violence than other areas of the disability community. And what can we do around prevention and safeguarding for women and girls with disability? So that was one of the big reflections that I've seen come out of the community, you know, noting that, you know, gender based violence is something that I sunk my teeth into when I came into activism as a family violence survivor. So it's something that is very core and personal to me. And it's also the hearing in which I gave my own personal evidence to as well, around the experience of violence against women with disabilities, including my own experience. So that's an area that is lacking that needs to have some uplift in regards to it. And I guess it's good that we're looking at how do we reduce restricted practice, how do we move away from using seclusion and restraints against people with disability? But I don't feel that it quite goes far enough. We don't want to be using language around reducing restrictive practices. We want to be using language around abolishing restrictive practice. We want to be looking at. Pathways with dedicated time frames around, well, how do we end the use of restrictive practice, seclusion and restraint? How do we do that in all environments in which our lives are, you know, situated, including group homes, schools, health and mental health settings across the board and in the justice setting as well, so that all areas are safe for us to engage with because at the moment they're currently not. And unfortunately, it feels like there's just different language being put to services justifying the use of these practices, which do already exist, and they will continue to justify the use of it unless we actually give clear boundaries around no, we don't want to be reducing, we want to be abolishing, and you need to be looking at and addressing the environments in which people are existing in or engaging with services in that lead to an escalation of distress that then leads to the use of restrictive practice. So that's again why we need to be in the room. We need to be defining what that looks like. We need to be putting the language to that. And we need to be setting some clear boundaries around what do we actually mean by, you know, abolishing these things, and how do we go about doing it? And, you know, what are the steps that need to be taken? And the language used to draw a line very clearly in the sand, that there's not going to be any excuses moving forward, that these measures have to be taken and just, you know, putting other words around how to justify the continuation of these forms of practices need to be stamped out.

And if people want to get in touch with Pueda and talk to somebody about their experiences or their feelings about the final report and the outcomes from the Royal Commission, what's the best way for people to get in touch with you?

And if people want to get in touch with Pueda and talk to somebody about their experiences or their feelings about the final report and the outcomes from the Royal Commission, what's the best way for people to get in touch with you?

I guess via our email channels, which can be found on our website, to make contact with the organisation or if you need support, with individualised advocacy on different issues. But the other one, like if you just want to sort of discuss struggling with what the report contains or a lot of emotions that are sitting with this report, is that Blue Note is still offering counselling moving forward for people, and they're a really good service that support people with complex trauma. And they were involved in the commission and supporting people who were giving evidence. So, you know, there's always blue not to go to, to discuss what you're going through or, you know, just even debriefing on how you feel about the report. But I guess always, you know, sort of reach out to people via email with your thoughts. We will be putting together possibly some surveys moving forward to ask people some questions around what are their priorities, what do they feel needs to be actioned on quicker over others so we can get a sense from the community around what it is they want us to be advocating for as a priority above other things. So that is something that will be coming out further down the track once we've had a bit more of a chance to really, you know, go over all of the report and its recommendations and put something together to engage with the community to get their feelings and thoughts on the commission. And where do we move to first?

I guess via our email channels, which can be found on our website, to make contact with the organisation or if you need support, with individualised advocacy on different issues. But the other one, like if you just want to sort of discuss struggling with what the report contains or a lot of emotions that are sitting with this report, is that Blue Note is still offering counselling moving forward for people, and they're a really good service that support people with complex trauma. And they were involved in the commission and supporting people who were giving evidence. So, you know, there's always blue not to go to, to discuss what you're going through or, you know, just even debriefing on how you feel about the report. But I guess always, you know, sort of reach out to people via email with your thoughts. We will be putting together possibly some surveys moving forward to ask people some questions around what are their priorities, what do they feel needs to be actioned on quicker over others so we can get a sense from the community around what it is they want us to be advocating for as a priority above other things. So that is something that will be coming out further down the track once we've had a bit more of a chance to really, you know, go over all of the report and its recommendations and put something together to engage with the community to get their feelings and thoughts on the commission. And where do we move to first?

I've been speaking today with Nicole Lee, president of people with Disabilities Australia, about the recently published final report from the Disability Royal Commission. And that's all the time we have for today on this holiday special edition of Talking Vision. Talking vision is a production of Vision Australia Radio. Thanks to all involved with putting this show together every week and as always, we encourage any feedback and comments, so do feel free to get in touch anytime at Talking Vision. At Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all. One word at Vision australia.org to have your say. This is Sam Colley, wishing you all a very happy and safe holiday period and a fantastic new year. So until next week it's bye for now.

I've been speaking today with Nicole Lee, president of people with Disabilities Australia, about the recently published final report from the Disability Royal Commission. And that's all the time we have for today on this holiday special edition of Talking Vision. Talking vision is a production of Vision Australia Radio. Thanks to all involved with putting this show together every week and as always, we encourage any feedback and comments, so do feel free to get in touch anytime at Talking Vision. At Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all. One word at Vision australia.org to have your say. This is Sam Colley, wishing you all a very happy and safe holiday period and a fantastic new year. So until next week it's bye for now.

You can contact Virgin Australia by phoning us anytime during business hours on one 308 4746. That's one 384 746 or by visiting Vision australia.org. That's Vision Australia call.

You can contact Virgin Australia by phoning us anytime during business hours on one 308 4746. That's one 384 746 or by visiting Vision australia.org. That's Vision Australia call.