From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam Colley.

From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam Colley.

Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness and low vision.

Hello, everyone. It's great to be here with you. And for the next half hour, we talk matters of blindness and low vision.

In an ideal world, I would love to be able just to read my bills like everyone else would without having to go through some sort of, like, complicated process to work around the built in inaccessibility of the bill and having to call them up, advocate for myself, blah, blah, blah. I just want to be able to read it straight off the bat like a sighted person would.

In an ideal world, I would love to be able just to read my bills like everyone else would without having to go through some sort of, like, complicated process to work around the built in inaccessibility of the bill and having to call them up, advocate for myself, blah, blah, blah. I just want to be able to read it straight off the bat like a sighted person would.

Welcome to the program. It's a reunion of sorts on the show this week as we chat with a couple of familiar voices to the talking Vision faithful. First up, we hear from Raya Andrean. Raya has been raising awareness about the inaccessibility of utility bills for people who are blind or have low vision, sharing her personal experiences of the difficulties she's faced having a bill provided to her in a format that is easily accessible and understandable. You may have seen Raya speaking about this in a recent ABC article and it's my great pleasure to welcome her onto the show to talk all about it. That interview's coming up right around the corner, so make sure to stay tuned. And then after you hear from Raya, Stellar, Glory's back on the show to give us the latest updates from the Vision Australia Library with some exciting upcoming events on the horizon. And then last but certainly not least, Francis Caitlin joins us for a Reader recommended. I hope you enjoy this week's episode of Talking Vision. Reverend Ryan is a freelance writer and musician based in Sydney, but she's also a voice that long term listeners to Talking Vision would be quite familiar with. You may have seen her work in ABC Classic more recently, but also she appeared in an ABC article talking all about the lack of accessibility of utility bills for people who are blind or have low vision. And she joins me now to talk all about it. Welcome back to Talking Vision. Great to hear your voice again.

Welcome to the program. It's a reunion of sorts on the show this week as we chat with a couple of familiar voices to the talking Vision faithful. First up, we hear from Raya Andrean. Raya has been raising awareness about the inaccessibility of utility bills for people who are blind or have low vision, sharing her personal experiences of the difficulties she's faced having a bill provided to her in a format that is easily accessible and understandable. You may have seen Raya speaking about this in a recent ABC article and it's my great pleasure to welcome her onto the show to talk all about it. That interview's coming up right around the corner, so make sure to stay tuned. And then after you hear from Raya, Stellar, Glory's back on the show to give us the latest updates from the Vision Australia Library with some exciting upcoming events on the horizon. And then last but certainly not least, Francis Caitlin joins us for a Reader recommended. I hope you enjoy this week's episode of Talking Vision. Reverend Ryan is a freelance writer and musician based in Sydney, but she's also a voice that long term listeners to Talking Vision would be quite familiar with. You may have seen her work in ABC Classic more recently, but also she appeared in an ABC article talking all about the lack of accessibility of utility bills for people who are blind or have low vision. And she joins me now to talk all about it. Welcome back to Talking Vision. Great to hear your voice again.

Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you so much for having me.

Firstly, where could you describe your experiences that you've had with utility bills in recent times?

Firstly, where could you describe your experiences that you've had with utility bills in recent times?

Sure thing. So I normally get my bill sent to me via email and my utility companies and council and everybody else normally send me the bills in PDF format, which is not particularly accessible.

Sure thing. So I normally get my bill sent to me via email and my utility companies and council and everybody else normally send me the bills in PDF format, which is not particularly accessible.

Okay. And what particular aspects of the PDFs were inaccessible for you and the people out there who are listening, who are blind or have low vision might be quite familiar with the challenges that come along with PDFs. But for the benefit of our broader listeners, what sort of things were some obstacles that you faced?

Okay. And what particular aspects of the PDFs were inaccessible for you and the people out there who are listening, who are blind or have low vision might be quite familiar with the challenges that come along with PDFs. But for the benefit of our broader listeners, what sort of things were some obstacles that you faced?

Yeah, so it's mainly the formatting of how the information is being presented. So for instance, when I get presented with my electricity bill, there are different charges and rights and usually it's done in a table format, but most of the times it gets scrambled. Whichever way. I kind of try to convert the PDF format into something I can read. And that makes it, you know, I can't really work out whether this amount refers to this particular charge or if like the second amount refers to another particular charge, it's connecting those dots. That's really difficult to do.

Yeah, so it's mainly the formatting of how the information is being presented. So for instance, when I get presented with my electricity bill, there are different charges and rights and usually it's done in a table format, but most of the times it gets scrambled. Whichever way. I kind of try to convert the PDF format into something I can read. And that makes it, you know, I can't really work out whether this amount refers to this particular charge or if like the second amount refers to another particular charge, it's connecting those dots. That's really difficult to do.

And did you find that the energy companies were quite receptive when you brought this up with them? What sort of response did you get from that?

And did you find that the energy companies were quite receptive when you brought this up with them? What sort of response did you get from that?

So they didn't really say that, Oh, no, we can't do that. We can't provide you the bill in your preferred format. They don't say that because that's clear discrimination. But what's frustrating is they say, okay, like we'll do something about this, will try to help you as much as we can. And because I used to work for a transcription department at Virgin Australia, I told them how they could help me, but none of my suggestions were taken and in the end the issues just weren't resolved. And my next bill will come. Same thing all over again. Sometimes it's like higher than the previous month and I want to know why. Sometimes it's lower than the previous month and I want to know why. And that's just no way for me.

So they didn't really say that, Oh, no, we can't do that. We can't provide you the bill in your preferred format. They don't say that because that's clear discrimination. But what's frustrating is they say, okay, like we'll do something about this, will try to help you as much as we can. And because I used to work for a transcription department at Virgin Australia, I told them how they could help me, but none of my suggestions were taken and in the end the issues just weren't resolved. And my next bill will come. Same thing all over again. Sometimes it's like higher than the previous month and I want to know why. Sometimes it's lower than the previous month and I want to know why. And that's just no way for me.

To do that and understand where the upshot of all of this was, that you have had to move from different providers because you weren't getting that response that you were looking for. Has that made a difference for you? What sort of improvements have you saying there.

To do that and understand where the upshot of all of this was, that you have had to move from different providers because you weren't getting that response that you were looking for. Has that made a difference for you? What sort of improvements have you saying there.

In terms of everyday living? I haven't really had a lot of improvements that's noticeable apart from, you know, like the new company has promised that they will supply my bill in something I can read, which my preferred format at this point in time is text.

In terms of everyday living? I haven't really had a lot of improvements that's noticeable apart from, you know, like the new company has promised that they will supply my bill in something I can read, which my preferred format at this point in time is text.

Okay. And I understand there is a possibility that bills can be sent in Braille, but that is also possibly quite cumbersome because if you have bills in embossed Braille, that would be a giant format and that's quite unwieldy. So that's possibly not really an option for quite a few people. Have you ever considered getting a Braille bill or is that sort of just been a bit too cumbersome?

Okay. And I understand there is a possibility that bills can be sent in Braille, but that is also possibly quite cumbersome because if you have bills in embossed Braille, that would be a giant format and that's quite unwieldy. So that's possibly not really an option for quite a few people. Have you ever considered getting a Braille bill or is that sort of just been a bit too cumbersome?

So my consideration of not using embossed Braille is because I'm trying to cut down on paper, you know, because I have worked for Vision Australia, it's actually quite easy for me to navigate those bills knowing how they are structured and things like that. But I want to minimise my environmental footprint. And the thing about electronic Braille is that normally I need a special reader to be able to read it, which is not a problem. But currently my Braille device is not connected to the internet, so it kind of involves a bit of a two step process. All right, well, if it's like a text, I could just click on the link on my email attachment and be able to read it there.

So my consideration of not using embossed Braille is because I'm trying to cut down on paper, you know, because I have worked for Vision Australia, it's actually quite easy for me to navigate those bills knowing how they are structured and things like that. But I want to minimise my environmental footprint. And the thing about electronic Braille is that normally I need a special reader to be able to read it, which is not a problem. But currently my Braille device is not connected to the internet, so it kind of involves a bit of a two step process. All right, well, if it's like a text, I could just click on the link on my email attachment and be able to read it there.

And whether those people have Braille readers or not, they are also quite pricey and they're not, you know, not always available for everybody. So that's another consideration. And, you know, having that accessibility of a text, that's crucial because as you said, you just click on the link and the document comes up and it's in with your screen reader and that helps quite a bit. So what would you like to see improve in terms of digital accessibility, whether that's PDFs or just builds that are available online on the browser? What sort of things would you really love to say improved across the board and made them consistently accessible?

And whether those people have Braille readers or not, they are also quite pricey and they're not, you know, not always available for everybody. So that's another consideration. And, you know, having that accessibility of a text, that's crucial because as you said, you just click on the link and the document comes up and it's in with your screen reader and that helps quite a bit. So what would you like to see improve in terms of digital accessibility, whether that's PDFs or just builds that are available online on the browser? What sort of things would you really love to say improved across the board and made them consistently accessible?

Oh wow, that is such a big question. Of course. We've got we've.

Oh wow, that is such a big question. Of course. We've got we've.

Got a long time we can, you know, go into as much or as little detail as you want. Yeah.

Got a long time we can, you know, go into as much or as little detail as you want. Yeah.

So of course, in an ideal world, I would love to be able just to read my bills like everyone else would without having to go through some sort of like, complicated process to work around the built in inaccessibility of the bill and having to call them up, advocate for myself, blah, blah, blah. I just want to be able to read it straight off the bat like a sighted person would in terms of like, what can we all do together to kind of make that happen? I think something that might be helpful is if we focus less on the visual format, on how a sighted person would navigate this visually and actually like lay out the information in a way that is more accessible for other people, that would make a huge difference. So instead of presenting figures with sharp peaks during certain times on graphics, like why don't you use words to do that? Or instead of formatting using tables like, why don't you use a list that a blind person can still relate to the information that they need? Like that doesn't take a rocket scientist to do that.

So of course, in an ideal world, I would love to be able just to read my bills like everyone else would without having to go through some sort of like, complicated process to work around the built in inaccessibility of the bill and having to call them up, advocate for myself, blah, blah, blah. I just want to be able to read it straight off the bat like a sighted person would in terms of like, what can we all do together to kind of make that happen? I think something that might be helpful is if we focus less on the visual format, on how a sighted person would navigate this visually and actually like lay out the information in a way that is more accessible for other people, that would make a huge difference. So instead of presenting figures with sharp peaks during certain times on graphics, like why don't you use words to do that? Or instead of formatting using tables like, why don't you use a list that a blind person can still relate to the information that they need? Like that doesn't take a rocket scientist to do that.

Would that be something like they could tell you the days on which you use the most electricity or water or, you know, something like that, Would that be of use for people who are blind or have low vision? You think what sort of information would you love to say? Like in particular?

Would that be something like they could tell you the days on which you use the most electricity or water or, you know, something like that, Would that be of use for people who are blind or have low vision? You think what sort of information would you love to say? Like in particular?

So if I know when is my peak usage, when I use the electricity most I could make decisions on, Do I then like cut down on my household appliances during those times to spread out my usage so I don't get hit with such a big bill at the end or something like that. So yeah, any kind of information that is presented in a logical manner is really useful. However, most of the times I'm left with, okay, like I have to pay this much money. I'm not too sure why I have some suspicions. Maybe it's because I like to use the dishwasher at 5 p.m. instead of 12 p.m. but I can't know that for sure from this bill. So let me call them up and talk to them. And that takes time.

So if I know when is my peak usage, when I use the electricity most I could make decisions on, Do I then like cut down on my household appliances during those times to spread out my usage so I don't get hit with such a big bill at the end or something like that. So yeah, any kind of information that is presented in a logical manner is really useful. However, most of the times I'm left with, okay, like I have to pay this much money. I'm not too sure why I have some suspicions. Maybe it's because I like to use the dishwasher at 5 p.m. instead of 12 p.m. but I can't know that for sure from this bill. So let me call them up and talk to them. And that takes time.

Does Yeah. And you know, it seems that bills across the board at the moment, unfortunately, they're quite hit and miss and they're unpredictable because there's no requirements around compliance with accessibility standards or benchmarks. There's a few holes, as I understand it, in the legislation where, you know, things aren't as up to date with, you know, where they need to be and the acts that are drawn up that are currently in effect, they don't specify about online things such as these Web based documents. And that's a problem in and of itself. So what would you like to see change in these sort of areas?

Does Yeah. And you know, it seems that bills across the board at the moment, unfortunately, they're quite hit and miss and they're unpredictable because there's no requirements around compliance with accessibility standards or benchmarks. There's a few holes, as I understand it, in the legislation where, you know, things aren't as up to date with, you know, where they need to be and the acts that are drawn up that are currently in effect, they don't specify about online things such as these Web based documents. And that's a problem in and of itself. So what would you like to see change in these sort of areas?

Okay. So as I understand it, there is a change. The guideline for accessible PDF is going to be updated later this year to be in line with either the 2018 or the 2023 guideline. Currently we're on 2009 and there have been so many things like Tick Tock wasn't even thought of, Instagram wasn't around back then. So that's just to give you an idea of how fast the technological world has moved on from that point in time in terms of what would I like to see? I think what I would really love to see is for more people to be aware of the principles of universal designs of designing things, whether digital or physical. Like, you know, you think about what kind of people who will like to use this from the beginning instead of, Oh yeah, like we'll build something and then we'll retrofit for people who have disabilities usually when that happens. We don't get the best experience. However, if we're there from the beginning of your app building and your website coding and whatever, it does give us a much better experience in terms of being able to participate in those. And unfortunately, most of us are not in a position to stop interacting with something like utility bills, like we need electricity. And unless if we're really in a position to be off the grid, most of us have to pay for our electricity. But I think especially in the cost of living crisis, it's a really reasonable ask to know what is it exactly are we paying for and how can we cut if we want to?

Okay. So as I understand it, there is a change. The guideline for accessible PDF is going to be updated later this year to be in line with either the 2018 or the 2023 guideline. Currently we're on 2009 and there have been so many things like Tick Tock wasn't even thought of, Instagram wasn't around back then. So that's just to give you an idea of how fast the technological world has moved on from that point in time in terms of what would I like to see? I think what I would really love to see is for more people to be aware of the principles of universal designs of designing things, whether digital or physical. Like, you know, you think about what kind of people who will like to use this from the beginning instead of, Oh yeah, like we'll build something and then we'll retrofit for people who have disabilities usually when that happens. We don't get the best experience. However, if we're there from the beginning of your app building and your website coding and whatever, it does give us a much better experience in terms of being able to participate in those. And unfortunately, most of us are not in a position to stop interacting with something like utility bills, like we need electricity. And unless if we're really in a position to be off the grid, most of us have to pay for our electricity. But I think especially in the cost of living crisis, it's a really reasonable ask to know what is it exactly are we paying for and how can we cut if we want to?

I'm Sam Culley and you're listening to Talking Vision on Vision Australia radio associated stations of RPA and the Community Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed the first half of my interview with Andrea Andrean. If you missed any part of the interview with Ray or you'd love to hear it again, the interview will be available as an interview highlight on our podcast platform. Just simply head to the podcast app of your choice, or you can also access it through the Vision Australia Library. And now back to my interview with Ray. There's a bit to be said about the lack of accessibility in hardware and software associated with these new and emerging technologies. I mean, for example, with your utilities, you want to know information about your smart meter. You might want to know what your solar panels are doing, how much you know, do you get a rebate for your solar panel? Where do you find that information? And, you know, there's things about monitoring batteries and power cells that are used by consumers as backups to solar panels. There's a lot of new technologies that perhaps bills aren't keeping up to date with or they haven't. I'd love to.

I'm Sam Culley and you're listening to Talking Vision on Vision Australia radio associated stations of RPA and the Community Radio Network. I hope you enjoyed the first half of my interview with Andrea Andrean. If you missed any part of the interview with Ray or you'd love to hear it again, the interview will be available as an interview highlight on our podcast platform. Just simply head to the podcast app of your choice, or you can also access it through the Vision Australia Library. And now back to my interview with Ray. There's a bit to be said about the lack of accessibility in hardware and software associated with these new and emerging technologies. I mean, for example, with your utilities, you want to know information about your smart meter. You might want to know what your solar panels are doing, how much you know, do you get a rebate for your solar panel? Where do you find that information? And, you know, there's things about monitoring batteries and power cells that are used by consumers as backups to solar panels. There's a lot of new technologies that perhaps bills aren't keeping up to date with or they haven't. I'd love to.

Know their information.

Know their information.

I would, Yeah, that's very important information because if you've got these things hooked up, you want to know like what impact that's having on your usage and on your bills that you have to pay.

I would, Yeah, that's very important information because if you've got these things hooked up, you want to know like what impact that's having on your usage and on your bills that you have to pay.

And I want to know in real time. Absolutely. That's the.

And I want to know in real time. Absolutely. That's the.

Thing. Like if you can't monitor your electricity usage through your smart meter, then you can't make informed choices about how you use electricity to maximize savings and minimize cost regardless of how accessible your actual bill is. So I think that really gets to the heart of this whole conversation that we're having right now, doesn't it?

Thing. Like if you can't monitor your electricity usage through your smart meter, then you can't make informed choices about how you use electricity to maximize savings and minimize cost regardless of how accessible your actual bill is. So I think that really gets to the heart of this whole conversation that we're having right now, doesn't it?

Yeah. So, for instance, I have a solar panel that comes with an app and there are two pertinent bits in the app. So these comes in a series. So the first series of figures is how much solar has been produced today. And then an unlabeled figure, if you can actually see it, has like a house with numbers inside the circle. So that actually represents like how much electricity I'm using in the house right now. And then the third figure in the series is how much the solar panel is producing now. And the fourth figure, which is a lightning tower with a light bulb which is unlabeled, is how much electricity from the grid am I using? So it's not the clearest, but I can navigate that. However, further down the app, like there's a much more comprehensive breakdown with lots of series and figures and yeah, I just cannot remember everything. Like no matter how many times people tell me, Oh yeah, it's like Abcd. By the time you get to the figure, I just can't remember. Oh, what was that about again? Like was that the electricity of the month or was that the how much I use today from the grid? Yeah. I just can't remember everything, especially if it's not labeled.

Yeah. So, for instance, I have a solar panel that comes with an app and there are two pertinent bits in the app. So these comes in a series. So the first series of figures is how much solar has been produced today. And then an unlabeled figure, if you can actually see it, has like a house with numbers inside the circle. So that actually represents like how much electricity I'm using in the house right now. And then the third figure in the series is how much the solar panel is producing now. And the fourth figure, which is a lightning tower with a light bulb which is unlabeled, is how much electricity from the grid am I using? So it's not the clearest, but I can navigate that. However, further down the app, like there's a much more comprehensive breakdown with lots of series and figures and yeah, I just cannot remember everything. Like no matter how many times people tell me, Oh yeah, it's like Abcd. By the time you get to the figure, I just can't remember. Oh, what was that about again? Like was that the electricity of the month or was that the how much I use today from the grid? Yeah. I just can't remember everything, especially if it's not labeled.

And is that a separate app away from, you know, the utility bills or is that sort of are they all I guess it's.

And is that a separate app away from, you know, the utility bills or is that sort of are they all I guess it's.

A separate app.

A separate app.

Okay. And that sort of that also adds an extra layer of complexity for you to understand how they relate to each other and all that sort of thing. So that's probably another little bit of a challenge there for sure. So if a person finds that their utility bill isn't accessible in that, it doesn't allow them to read and understand the information they need, what would you suggest they should do?

Okay. And that sort of that also adds an extra layer of complexity for you to understand how they relate to each other and all that sort of thing. So that's probably another little bit of a challenge there for sure. So if a person finds that their utility bill isn't accessible in that, it doesn't allow them to read and understand the information they need, what would you suggest they should do?

Okay. First thing first. I mean, this is based on what I would do. I will call up the electricity company and ask them to explain to me, look, I've got this bill. I don't get it. Can you please talk through? And if you don't understand, because they will use words like Off-peak charges and On-Demand charges and daily this and whatever. Like if you don't understand those words, ask them like, can you please explain and then say it back to them. Okay, so I've got my office charges this much, plus the daily charges that much. So this figure, plus that figure that makes that figure times, you know, your average days of what you've been billed for, like break it down with them and then after that, ask them, can you please provide me with this information in a format that I can read? And, you know, there's always in Australia, you can always tell them that vision Australia has. Transcription department that can help you with this. If you can't do it in house, go ask them if they can help you.

Okay. First thing first. I mean, this is based on what I would do. I will call up the electricity company and ask them to explain to me, look, I've got this bill. I don't get it. Can you please talk through? And if you don't understand, because they will use words like Off-peak charges and On-Demand charges and daily this and whatever. Like if you don't understand those words, ask them like, can you please explain and then say it back to them. Okay, so I've got my office charges this much, plus the daily charges that much. So this figure, plus that figure that makes that figure times, you know, your average days of what you've been billed for, like break it down with them and then after that, ask them, can you please provide me with this information in a format that I can read? And, you know, there's always in Australia, you can always tell them that vision Australia has. Transcription department that can help you with this. If you can't do it in house, go ask them if they can help you.

And if all of that doesn't result in a satisfactory situation, then people can always consider lodging a complaint of disability discrimination because, you know, people should feel that they have that ability to do that, either under the Disability Discrimination Act or the relevant state or territory legislation. Do you think that would result in a bit more of a satisfactory outcome for people who are facing that sort of situation?

And if all of that doesn't result in a satisfactory situation, then people can always consider lodging a complaint of disability discrimination because, you know, people should feel that they have that ability to do that, either under the Disability Discrimination Act or the relevant state or territory legislation. Do you think that would result in a bit more of a satisfactory outcome for people who are facing that sort of situation?

You know, I always consider lodging a complaint with the Human Rights Commission as something that every person with disability who have experienced discrimination should do. However, I am also conscious that for lots of us, especially if we are working full time, blah blah blah, it takes a lot of mental and physical energy to be able to do so.

You know, I always consider lodging a complaint with the Human Rights Commission as something that every person with disability who have experienced discrimination should do. However, I am also conscious that for lots of us, especially if we are working full time, blah blah blah, it takes a lot of mental and physical energy to be able to do so.

Time consuming information.

Time consuming information.

And things like that. So what I've done is I used my network to tell my story. In this case, I filled out a form at an ABC story about, you know, what I experienced, and I work with journalists to be able to get to the bottom of this particular issue.

And things like that. So what I've done is I used my network to tell my story. In this case, I filled out a form at an ABC story about, you know, what I experienced, and I work with journalists to be able to get to the bottom of this particular issue.

You know, there are a lot of different ways that people can get their voice heard, and that's super important for people to get that message out there. So thank you for catching up with me today and sharing your story and telling us all about the way that you've gone about things and the experiences that you've had today. So thank you again for that. I've been speaking today with Ray Indranee and we've been talking all about utility bills and accessibility today. Raya, thank you so much for your time today. It was a pleasure to catch up with you again and likewise.

You know, there are a lot of different ways that people can get their voice heard, and that's super important for people to get that message out there. So thank you for catching up with me today and sharing your story and telling us all about the way that you've gone about things and the experiences that you've had today. So thank you again for that. I've been speaking today with Ray Indranee and we've been talking all about utility bills and accessibility today. Raya, thank you so much for your time today. It was a pleasure to catch up with you again and likewise.

Sam. Thank you so much for having me.

Sam. Thank you so much for having me.

Thank you very much to Raya and Rani there. And now from where we go to another favourite of talking vision. It's still a glory, still is. Here to give us the latest from the library and she joins me right now. Stella, welcome back to Talking Vision. Thanks so much for your time today. Oh, no.

Thank you very much to Raya and Rani there. And now from where we go to another favourite of talking vision. It's still a glory, still is. Here to give us the latest from the library and she joins me right now. Stella, welcome back to Talking Vision. Thanks so much for your time today. Oh, no.

Need to thank me. It's always a pleasure.

Need to thank me. It's always a pleasure.

Now, Stella, I understand there's some events coming up in the library. Tell us all about those now.

Now, Stella, I understand there's some events coming up in the library. Tell us all about those now.

Do you have any skeletons in your closet? In your family closet? Most don't stop. Well, we all have a fascinating story in our family that needs to be told. So the library is doing this fantastic series of workshops. It's run over three weeks. It's called Writing Family History. So as I said, we all have a fascinating story in our family. But where do we begin? Where do we look? Who do we speak to? It's being facilitated by author Jonathan Butler, and he wrote a book called The Boy in the Dress, and it's about a member of his family who was a former soldier. And Jonathan will use his own experience in research and writing about his ancestors. Participants will be provided with actionable advice on how to pick a story. Helpful Australian archives to check out and a deep dive into true crime and defence research. It is free for library members and it starts on Tuesday, August 22nd at 11 a.m. Australian Eastern Standard Time. It runs over three Tuesdays. This one is going to book out, I reckon, because our library members love an autobiography. They sure do. Yeah. So get in. Another thing that the library is running, especially for young people. They're looking for young people and big ideas. They are on the hunt for a group of vibrant young, library loving members aged 12 to 17, to help revolutionise their library experience. So they just want to make sure that the library is working hard for the youth element of the library. And now there are some solid perks for being part of the focus group, including gift cards, sneak peeks to upcoming initiatives and the chance to share your ideas with like minded teens. Now the other big news at the library is that they have launched it's a Biblio therapy podcast series. Do you know what Biblio therapy is?

Do you have any skeletons in your closet? In your family closet? Most don't stop. Well, we all have a fascinating story in our family that needs to be told. So the library is doing this fantastic series of workshops. It's run over three weeks. It's called Writing Family History. So as I said, we all have a fascinating story in our family. But where do we begin? Where do we look? Who do we speak to? It's being facilitated by author Jonathan Butler, and he wrote a book called The Boy in the Dress, and it's about a member of his family who was a former soldier. And Jonathan will use his own experience in research and writing about his ancestors. Participants will be provided with actionable advice on how to pick a story. Helpful Australian archives to check out and a deep dive into true crime and defence research. It is free for library members and it starts on Tuesday, August 22nd at 11 a.m. Australian Eastern Standard Time. It runs over three Tuesdays. This one is going to book out, I reckon, because our library members love an autobiography. They sure do. Yeah. So get in. Another thing that the library is running, especially for young people. They're looking for young people and big ideas. They are on the hunt for a group of vibrant young, library loving members aged 12 to 17, to help revolutionise their library experience. So they just want to make sure that the library is working hard for the youth element of the library. And now there are some solid perks for being part of the focus group, including gift cards, sneak peeks to upcoming initiatives and the chance to share your ideas with like minded teens. Now the other big news at the library is that they have launched it's a Biblio therapy podcast series. Do you know what Biblio therapy is?

Sam Therapy of the book, by any chance?

Sam Therapy of the book, by any chance?

That's probably about it. And it's how a story in the book can help us with what's going on in our own lives. And this particular one is a wellbeing through stories with Dr. Susan to help you relax, reflect and renew. There are nine in the series, three for adults, three for young adults, and three for children. They are available through the library so you can listen through your device of choice. Now, would you like to find out how you can join any of our events or sign up for the youth focus group?

That's probably about it. And it's how a story in the book can help us with what's going on in our own lives. And this particular one is a wellbeing through stories with Dr. Susan to help you relax, reflect and renew. There are nine in the series, three for adults, three for young adults, and three for children. They are available through the library so you can listen through your device of choice. Now, would you like to find out how you can join any of our events or sign up for the youth focus group?

Absolutely. Still, I'd love to.

Absolutely. Still, I'd love to.

Well, the library newsletter will be out next week in hitting people's inboxes and all of these events and stories, including the upcoming Treat Yourself will be in the newsletter plus more. Or you can join the library. If you're not a member of the library, you can give them a call on 1300 654 656. That's 1300 654 656. Or get onto the Vision Australia website. All the events and information are in there.

Well, the library newsletter will be out next week in hitting people's inboxes and all of these events and stories, including the upcoming Treat Yourself will be in the newsletter plus more. Or you can join the library. If you're not a member of the library, you can give them a call on 1300 654 656. That's 1300 654 656. Or get onto the Vision Australia website. All the events and information are in there.

All right. So do keep an eye out for that. There's a lot of exciting things going on in the library, so check them out. Stella, it's been great to have you back on the show. It's a pleasure to chat as always. Thanks so much for your time today.

All right. So do keep an eye out for that. There's a lot of exciting things going on in the library, so check them out. Stella, it's been great to have you back on the show. It's a pleasure to chat as always. Thanks so much for your time today.

Thanks, Sam.

Thanks, Sam.

And now here's Francis Kelland with a reader recommended.

And now here's Francis Kelland with a reader recommended.

Thank you, Sam. Today's reader recommended is about a city. It's a love song to a city in a memoir. It's called Perth and it's by David Whish-Wilson. David Whish-Wilson Perth is a place of surprising beauty, of sand swept peace and brilliant light, yet a place where the deeper historical currents are never too far beneath the surface, like the Swan River that flows in two directions at once, at certain times, with the fresh water flowing seaward above the salty water flowing in beneath it. Perth strikes perfect harmony with the city's contradictions and eccentricities. We look beyond the shiny glass facades, the boisterous talk of mining booms to the richness of the natural world and the trailblazers, the rebels, the occasional ghost and the ordinary people that bring Australia's remotest city to life. Let's hear a sample of David Whish-Wilson book, Perth Twice.

Thank you, Sam. Today's reader recommended is about a city. It's a love song to a city in a memoir. It's called Perth and it's by David Whish-Wilson. David Whish-Wilson Perth is a place of surprising beauty, of sand swept peace and brilliant light, yet a place where the deeper historical currents are never too far beneath the surface, like the Swan River that flows in two directions at once, at certain times, with the fresh water flowing seaward above the salty water flowing in beneath it. Perth strikes perfect harmony with the city's contradictions and eccentricities. We look beyond the shiny glass facades, the boisterous talk of mining booms to the richness of the natural world and the trailblazers, the rebels, the occasional ghost and the ordinary people that bring Australia's remotest city to life. Let's hear a sample of David Whish-Wilson book, Perth Twice.

A day The Skin of the Swan River rises in a small ripple as the tidal surge makes its way from the river mouth at Fremantle through Perth. Water and up into the higher reaches of the river near the fast growing suburb of Ellenbrook, just over 20km north east of Perth. In winter when a layer of brackish water runs off the scarp towards the ocean, the river flows in two directions with the freshwater flowing seaward above the saline water flowing in beneath it. Today, The diurnal bulge of water that reveals the incoming tide is invisible. It's a Sunday morning and I'm out on the river in an open kayak with my Uncle Scott, my father's youngest brother. Scott moved from Tasmania to Perth as a teenager in the 1970s. Like so many others, he stayed for the climate and the lifestyle and the opportunity to work.

A day The Skin of the Swan River rises in a small ripple as the tidal surge makes its way from the river mouth at Fremantle through Perth. Water and up into the higher reaches of the river near the fast growing suburb of Ellenbrook, just over 20km north east of Perth. In winter when a layer of brackish water runs off the scarp towards the ocean, the river flows in two directions with the freshwater flowing seaward above the saline water flowing in beneath it. Today, The diurnal bulge of water that reveals the incoming tide is invisible. It's a Sunday morning and I'm out on the river in an open kayak with my Uncle Scott, my father's youngest brother. Scott moved from Tasmania to Perth as a teenager in the 1970s. Like so many others, he stayed for the climate and the lifestyle and the opportunity to work.

So that was Perth by David Whish-Wilson. There was a series of books by writers that wrote about the city that they grew up in, and so there's ones for all of the capital cities around Australia. If you would like that book or if you would like to find out more about how the Vision Australia Library can work for you. If you have a print disability, give the library a call on 1300 654 656. That's 1300 654 656. Or you can email library at Vision Australia. Org that's library at Vision Australia. Org.

So that was Perth by David Whish-Wilson. There was a series of books by writers that wrote about the city that they grew up in, and so there's ones for all of the capital cities around Australia. If you would like that book or if you would like to find out more about how the Vision Australia Library can work for you. If you have a print disability, give the library a call on 1300 654 656. That's 1300 654 656. Or you can email library at Vision Australia. Org that's library at Vision Australia. Org.

And that's all we have time for today. You've been listening to Talking Vision. Talking Vision is a production of Vision Australia Radio. Thanks to all involved with putting the show together And remember we love your feedback and comments, so please do get in touch on Talking vision at Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all one word at Vision australia.org. But until next week it's Sam Colley saying bye for now.

And that's all we have time for today. You've been listening to Talking Vision. Talking Vision is a production of Vision Australia Radio. Thanks to all involved with putting the show together And remember we love your feedback and comments, so please do get in touch on Talking vision at Vision australia.org. That's talking vision all one word at Vision australia.org. But until next week it's Sam Colley saying bye for now.

You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during business hours on one 308 4746. That's one 384 746 or by visiting Vision australia.org that's Vision australia.org.

You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us anytime during business hours on one 308 4746. That's one 384 746 or by visiting Vision australia.org that's Vision australia.org.