From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now he's your host, Sam calling. I'm Stella Glory and it's great to be with you here on Talking Vision. Happy New Year, everyone. Did you hear that sound I played? Let me play it again. It is the audible pedestrian button and it's. Very unique to Australia and it's got a really interesting and rich history. Most recently, the Powerhouse Museum produced a short audio documentary, Push to Walk a People's History of the Pedestrian Button. And we're going to play it for you. To die before that, they'll all be chatting with one of the producers, John Jacobs, and also with Bill Jolley, who was part of the campaign for the implementation of the audible pedestrian button. And that's all I'm got to say. So it's on with the show. Like many sighted people living in Australia, I have taken the audible pedestrian traffic lights for granted. I cannot even remember them not being there, but I know they weren't because they didn't turn up until, well, widespread and in the standard version till around the 1980s. But thanks to the Powerhouse Museum Oscillation series, there is a podcast called Push to Walk, which is about the history of the audible pedestrian traffic light. And today I am talking to the documentary maker Joan Jacobs and also Bill Jolley. My listeners will be very familiar with Bill. He's currently also the deputy chair of Vision Australia. First to you, John. Thank you so much for your time today.

From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now he's your host, Sam calling. I'm Stella Glory and it's great to be with you here on Talking Vision. Happy New Year, everyone. Did you hear that sound I played? Let me play it again. It is the audible pedestrian button and it's. Very unique to Australia and it's got a really interesting and rich history. Most recently, the Powerhouse Museum produced a short audio documentary, Push to Walk a People's History of the Pedestrian Button. And we're going to play it for you. To die before that, they'll all be chatting with one of the producers, John Jacobs, and also with Bill Jolley, who was part of the campaign for the implementation of the audible pedestrian button. And that's all I'm got to say. So it's on with the show. Like many sighted people living in Australia, I have taken the audible pedestrian traffic lights for granted. I cannot even remember them not being there, but I know they weren't because they didn't turn up until, well, widespread and in the standard version till around the 1980s. But thanks to the Powerhouse Museum Oscillation series, there is a podcast called Push to Walk, which is about the history of the audible pedestrian traffic light. And today I am talking to the documentary maker Joan Jacobs and also Bill Jolley. My listeners will be very familiar with Bill. He's currently also the deputy chair of Vision Australia. First to you, John. Thank you so much for your time today.

You're welcome.

You're welcome.

And to Bill. Hi, Bill. Thank you for your time. Thanks lot.

And to Bill. Hi, Bill. Thank you for your time. Thanks lot.

Thank you. Pleasure to be with you.

Thank you. Pleasure to be with you.

So let's start with you, Bill. So before 1981, there were you know, while there were a couple of audible traffic lights in Melbourne, there weren't wasn't really any standard. So tell us as a blind person about crossing at traffic lights before the advent of the audio audible pedestrian crossing. How did you cross? How did you get around?

So let's start with you, Bill. So before 1981, there were you know, while there were a couple of audible traffic lights in Melbourne, there weren't wasn't really any standard. So tell us as a blind person about crossing at traffic lights before the advent of the audio audible pedestrian crossing. How did you cross? How did you get around?

Well, it was pretty tricky, really. And. For four simple crossings the. Basic idea was to listen to the flow of the cars. So if it was a crossing that was a right angle across the road, east, west and a road north south, you'd listen to the cars and the cars on your left or right. When they started to go and you heard the other cars on the road in front of you, stop, then you know it was safe to cross. So you had to sort of learn the sound of the crossing a bit to be able to do it easily. The crossings in the in the middle of a block were difficult in so far, and you couldn't find them. You had to learn how to find where the crossing was and then you could cross okay, a big crossing, say, like Kew Junction or Camberwell Junction in Melbourne. I'll tell you, really difficult for blind people to cross and you really needed someone to help you cross very often because the cars had turning cycles and there was a number of lines on a number of roads coming in and it was very noisy often, so it was quite treacherous.

Well, it was pretty tricky, really. And. For four simple crossings the. Basic idea was to listen to the flow of the cars. So if it was a crossing that was a right angle across the road, east, west and a road north south, you'd listen to the cars and the cars on your left or right. When they started to go and you heard the other cars on the road in front of you, stop, then you know it was safe to cross. So you had to sort of learn the sound of the crossing a bit to be able to do it easily. The crossings in the in the middle of a block were difficult in so far, and you couldn't find them. You had to learn how to find where the crossing was and then you could cross okay, a big crossing, say, like Kew Junction or Camberwell Junction in Melbourne. I'll tell you, really difficult for blind people to cross and you really needed someone to help you cross very often because the cars had turning cycles and there was a number of lines on a number of roads coming in and it was very noisy often, so it was quite treacherous.

John So when you first sort of started researching about the audible traffic, like did you think it would be such have such a rich and big background like, what are you thinking when you hearing all these stories that Bill's telling?

John So when you first sort of started researching about the audible traffic, like did you think it would be such have such a rich and big background like, what are you thinking when you hearing all these stories that Bill's telling?

Well, it's amazing, isn't it? It just goes to show that nothing is simple and it takes a huge amount of people and sometimes a long amount of time to make something happen that we just now take for granted. And the traffic Moorabool traffic signals a great example of it. I knew I knew it was an Australian design, so I was kind of interested in it that way. I'm an engineer, a sound engineer, so I like listening and I'd always loved the sound. It's such a a beautiful it's groovy. It's kind of got movement in it, but also it really works, you know? And so and we started making this podcast for the Powerhouse, and we heard of Cecil and we heard of his letter, and the record in the museum just mentions him. I mean, you've got to start somewhere and it's not a criticism, but it's sort of like, okay, let's dig into this and find out, well, how did this happen? And and the process was amazing. It was like how she really did co-design with the community. He just natively knew that as an engineer, you can't just sit at a desk in an office and design something. You need the users to tell you what they want, what they need, what works, what doesn't work. And so it was a really broad consultation, and that's one of the reasons why it's so great. I mean, that I talk to a lot of people, got a lot of ideas. They rejected designs from Japan, from Sweden, and they we can do better than this. And then they got the engineer involved, the acoustics man, and he came up with this idea how the loudspeaker could make the sound, but also could vibrate the button so that all levels of people could use this. And, you know, even I've even heard that guide dogs are very happy to press set nice big round button with their notes, you know. So it's it's not just humans. It's it's a lot of creatures are benefiting from this wonderful thing.

Well, it's amazing, isn't it? It just goes to show that nothing is simple and it takes a huge amount of people and sometimes a long amount of time to make something happen that we just now take for granted. And the traffic Moorabool traffic signals a great example of it. I knew I knew it was an Australian design, so I was kind of interested in it that way. I'm an engineer, a sound engineer, so I like listening and I'd always loved the sound. It's such a a beautiful it's groovy. It's kind of got movement in it, but also it really works, you know? And so and we started making this podcast for the Powerhouse, and we heard of Cecil and we heard of his letter, and the record in the museum just mentions him. I mean, you've got to start somewhere and it's not a criticism, but it's sort of like, okay, let's dig into this and find out, well, how did this happen? And and the process was amazing. It was like how she really did co-design with the community. He just natively knew that as an engineer, you can't just sit at a desk in an office and design something. You need the users to tell you what they want, what they need, what works, what doesn't work. And so it was a really broad consultation, and that's one of the reasons why it's so great. I mean, that I talk to a lot of people, got a lot of ideas. They rejected designs from Japan, from Sweden, and they we can do better than this. And then they got the engineer involved, the acoustics man, and he came up with this idea how the loudspeaker could make the sound, but also could vibrate the button so that all levels of people could use this. And, you know, even I've even heard that guide dogs are very happy to press set nice big round button with their notes, you know. So it's it's not just humans. It's it's a lot of creatures are benefiting from this wonderful thing.

Just warm your heart when as an engineer yourself sand engineer that an engineer, Frank Kosha, had so much to do with the creation.

Just warm your heart when as an engineer yourself sand engineer that an engineer, Frank Kosha, had so much to do with the creation.

Yeah, well, what again, what warms my heart is that he reached out to the people, and that's where great ideas come from, is from the community. And that's where real knowledge and and innovation can come from. If, if we listen to each other and if we work together. And I also really respect Louis Tallis for giving his ideas away. So he was approached and asked if he wanted to patent this or if he wanted to copyright it, and he said, no, this is open source. It's got to go out there. And that's another reason why it's widely deployed is because there's not a licensing fee involved. It's cheaper to make. And he wanted to boost Australian industry so we could make it locally and he wanted it to be available widely.

Yeah, well, what again, what warms my heart is that he reached out to the people, and that's where great ideas come from, is from the community. And that's where real knowledge and and innovation can come from. If, if we listen to each other and if we work together. And I also really respect Louis Tallis for giving his ideas away. So he was approached and asked if he wanted to patent this or if he wanted to copyright it, and he said, no, this is open source. It's got to go out there. And that's another reason why it's widely deployed is because there's not a licensing fee involved. It's cheaper to make. And he wanted to boost Australian industry so we could make it locally and he wanted it to be available widely.

That's a very commendable thing that Louis Charles did to to make that open source and not claim that the copyright because it is it is a very good design. The sound is carefully designed. It's I, I think it's a square wave which has the attribute that it's very good for people hearing the direction of where the sounds coming from. And John, you can probably correct me, but. If you have a different kind of wave, which is like a so-called sine wave, like the pitch tone that you hear radio stations use in the old days, that signal is very difficult to locate the direction of. But the sound, the type of sound that Louis cellos came up with, this is a very good sound for hearing the direction, which is very handy when you're crossing the road to get a cue as you come towards the other side of where the pedestrian button is so that you kind of keep walking in the correct direction.

That's a very commendable thing that Louis Charles did to to make that open source and not claim that the copyright because it is it is a very good design. The sound is carefully designed. It's I, I think it's a square wave which has the attribute that it's very good for people hearing the direction of where the sounds coming from. And John, you can probably correct me, but. If you have a different kind of wave, which is like a so-called sine wave, like the pitch tone that you hear radio stations use in the old days, that signal is very difficult to locate the direction of. But the sound, the type of sound that Louis cellos came up with, this is a very good sound for hearing the direction, which is very handy when you're crossing the road to get a cue as you come towards the other side of where the pedestrian button is so that you kind of keep walking in the correct direction.

Yeah, it does. Yes. You're so right. It does two things. It propels you across the beat, you and this sort of the the lowering of the tone. It's like, okay, let's do it now. And then it pushes you across the board. It's fast. It's like, come on. It's like a little hand in your back, gently guiding you across. And then, yeah, the other side of the straight is calling you. It's like you, you know, this is where you need to aim to. So it's beautiful. It's got a motion direction finding and it knows about the ear, the acoustics, it's got a microphone in it so that when it's loud in the day and lots of traffic, it gets a little bit louder and then at night it gets quieter. So it's doing a whole lot of beautiful stuff engineering wise. Yes, certainly.

Yeah, it does. Yes. You're so right. It does two things. It propels you across the beat, you and this sort of the the lowering of the tone. It's like, okay, let's do it now. And then it pushes you across the board. It's fast. It's like, come on. It's like a little hand in your back, gently guiding you across. And then, yeah, the other side of the straight is calling you. It's like you, you know, this is where you need to aim to. So it's beautiful. It's got a motion direction finding and it knows about the ear, the acoustics, it's got a microphone in it so that when it's loud in the day and lots of traffic, it gets a little bit louder and then at night it gets quieter. So it's doing a whole lot of beautiful stuff engineering wise. Yes, certainly.

John, what led you to decide to make a podcast about the traffic light? Was there one single thing that happened?

John, what led you to decide to make a podcast about the traffic light? Was there one single thing that happened?

I just love the sound. And it's so it's I thought, well, everyone, this is something a lot of people can know about already but don't know about at all. You know, it's got a it's got a it's widely known. It's the air on every corner. But also it's like, how did it get here? You know, And it's we just don't talk about these things. You use them and you don't think about them. And as many things in life, there's a big backstory. And if it's something people are familiar with, they might be interested to know some more. Plus, it's just funky like you can. I've seen people you can press on that disc where the arrow is and you can you can modulate the sound. It's an instrument. You can, you can make it. I've heard people doing things with it and and yes, the taking ones in Melbourne. I love them. He knows all this is a different sound. Okay. Right. And then it turns up in pop pop music tracks like the Billie Eilish bad guy. She sampled it just because the rhythm is so it's so groovy.

I just love the sound. And it's so it's I thought, well, everyone, this is something a lot of people can know about already but don't know about at all. You know, it's got a it's got a it's widely known. It's the air on every corner. But also it's like, how did it get here? You know, And it's we just don't talk about these things. You use them and you don't think about them. And as many things in life, there's a big backstory. And if it's something people are familiar with, they might be interested to know some more. Plus, it's just funky like you can. I've seen people you can press on that disc where the arrow is and you can you can modulate the sound. It's an instrument. You can, you can make it. I've heard people doing things with it and and yes, the taking ones in Melbourne. I love them. He knows all this is a different sound. Okay. Right. And then it turns up in pop pop music tracks like the Billie Eilish bad guy. She sampled it just because the rhythm is so it's so groovy.

I'm Stella Glory and you're listening to Talking Vision here on Vision Australia Radio. Did you enjoy that small sample That was Billie Eilish bad guy, and the sample she took was the audible traffic signal, the Australian audible traffic signal. Before then, of course, I was chatting with Bill Tolley, who was part of the campaign for the implementation of the audible traffic light and certainly one of the beneficial beneficiaries most definitely. I was also speaking with John Jacobs, who is a sound engineer alongside producer Jane Curtis and Amelia John produced Put to Walk a People's History of the Pedestrian Button. And here is the documentary now. I hope you enjoy it.

I'm Stella Glory and you're listening to Talking Vision here on Vision Australia Radio. Did you enjoy that small sample That was Billie Eilish bad guy, and the sample she took was the audible traffic signal, the Australian audible traffic signal. Before then, of course, I was chatting with Bill Tolley, who was part of the campaign for the implementation of the audible traffic light and certainly one of the beneficial beneficiaries most definitely. I was also speaking with John Jacobs, who is a sound engineer alongside producer Jane Curtis and Amelia John produced Put to Walk a People's History of the Pedestrian Button. And here is the documentary now. I hope you enjoy it.

Now, if you walk around Australia and you come up to a pedestrian crossing in Sydney, Melbourne or most other cities, you'll come up to a pedestrian crossing that goes beep, beep, beep, beep.

Now, if you walk around Australia and you come up to a pedestrian crossing in Sydney, Melbourne or most other cities, you'll come up to a pedestrian crossing that goes beep, beep, beep, beep.

You don't just use those signals to tell you when to cross the road. Beep.

You don't just use those signals to tell you when to cross the road. Beep.

Beep, beep.

Beep, beep.

As a blind person, you also use them to keep in your mind where it is that you're going. Beep.

As a blind person, you also use them to keep in your mind where it is that you're going. Beep.

Beep, beep.

Beep, beep.

I tend to get as close to the middle of the corner as I can. Then I'll turn and try and zero in on where the sound is coming from.

I tend to get as close to the middle of the corner as I can. Then I'll turn and try and zero in on where the sound is coming from.

Beep, beep, beep.

Beep, beep, beep.

They act as a almost like a propellant for some people to cross the road. So if someone's standing looking at their phone, they hear the lights go and I suddenly realize it's actually time to cross.

They act as a almost like a propellant for some people to cross the road. So if someone's standing looking at their phone, they hear the lights go and I suddenly realize it's actually time to cross.

If you're in Australia or you've been here, you know this sound, the sound of Powerhouse Museum object number 87234-1. The audio tactile pedestrian button or PB five for short. This humble, hard working button is a big deal. It's Australian made. It's a design icon. It's award winning. It even cracked the top ten. Musician Billie Eilish featured our pedestrian button in her song Bad Guy. So how did the button get on to our streets and what was life like before it?

If you're in Australia or you've been here, you know this sound, the sound of Powerhouse Museum object number 87234-1. The audio tactile pedestrian button or PB five for short. This humble, hard working button is a big deal. It's Australian made. It's a design icon. It's award winning. It even cracked the top ten. Musician Billie Eilish featured our pedestrian button in her song Bad Guy. So how did the button get on to our streets and what was life like before it?

My name is Graham Patterson. I was a young engineer working in traffic lights in the early 1970s.

My name is Graham Patterson. I was a young engineer working in traffic lights in the early 1970s.

In those days, the crossing button was on a box that said Pedestrians press button for walk signal in all caps. But how would you cross if you couldn't see?

In those days, the crossing button was on a box that said Pedestrians press button for walk signal in all caps. But how would you cross if you couldn't see?

When some of these blind pedestrians contacted us saying they've got a big problem crossing? We looked into it and I just thought, well, basically they can't see the light across the other side of road to see this saying walk or don't walk. But that wasn't the full story. They had problems coming along the footpath, finding just when they were at the intersection. And then finding which way to cross, even finding the post which the traffic lights are on. There's a lot of movement, says other people. It's quite a confusing situation.

When some of these blind pedestrians contacted us saying they've got a big problem crossing? We looked into it and I just thought, well, basically they can't see the light across the other side of road to see this saying walk or don't walk. But that wasn't the full story. They had problems coming along the footpath, finding just when they were at the intersection. And then finding which way to cross, even finding the post which the traffic lights are on. There's a lot of movement, says other people. It's quite a confusing situation.

The Powerhouse Museum Records says in 1967, a blind man named Cecil McIlrath asked the New South Wales Roads and Traffic Authority to introduce pedestrian traffic signals. He could hear.

The Powerhouse Museum Records says in 1967, a blind man named Cecil McIlrath asked the New South Wales Roads and Traffic Authority to introduce pedestrian traffic signals. He could hear.

The issue of audible traffic signals was one that was important to him because just in his daily life he could see how it would be helpful to him and to other people.

The issue of audible traffic signals was one that was important to him because just in his daily life he could see how it would be helpful to him and to other people.

That's Bill Jolly, co-chair of Vision Australia.

That's Bill Jolly, co-chair of Vision Australia.

He used to do fund raising, soliciting donations or ticket selling for the Irish intellectually. That meant he was mixing with the public a lot and also that he was travelling independently with his guide dog.

He used to do fund raising, soliciting donations or ticket selling for the Irish intellectually. That meant he was mixing with the public a lot and also that he was travelling independently with his guide dog.

Bill describes the light Cecil MacGill raised as a visible blind person. Someone who was working in the community with his guide dog in the 1960s and seventies that was less common.

Bill describes the light Cecil MacGill raised as a visible blind person. Someone who was working in the community with his guide dog in the 1960s and seventies that was less common.

So he'd lost his sight later in life. And he was one of these people that said that the blindness isn't going to stop him. He's not going to go back into his shell.

So he'd lost his sight later in life. And he was one of these people that said that the blindness isn't going to stop him. He's not going to go back into his shell.

I think he probably came across as a bit of a force to be reckoned with.

I think he probably came across as a bit of a force to be reckoned with.

Susan Thomson is an advocacy advisor at Vision Australia.

Susan Thomson is an advocacy advisor at Vision Australia.

What happens is that, you know, somebody who's got a really persuasive argument and personality and strikes the right person at the right time can really do things because sometimes it's about whether your audience is receptive.

What happens is that, you know, somebody who's got a really persuasive argument and personality and strikes the right person at the right time can really do things because sometimes it's about whether your audience is receptive.

And eventually Cecil did find a receptive audience for his idea.

And eventually Cecil did find a receptive audience for his idea.

The idea needs a champion. That is someone who will work for it, Do the background work, lead the research. Have a dogged determination and push the ideas through their organization. And now, in the case of the audible traffic signals. Frank Hillshire was that champion. And Cecil knew Frank culture and had established a relationship with him.

The idea needs a champion. That is someone who will work for it, Do the background work, lead the research. Have a dogged determination and push the ideas through their organization. And now, in the case of the audible traffic signals. Frank Hillshire was that champion. And Cecil knew Frank culture and had established a relationship with him.

Frank also knew that he had to involve the blind community in the design process. Graham Pattison.

Frank also knew that he had to involve the blind community in the design process. Graham Pattison.

My work supervisor at the time, a man called Frank Holger, managed to carry out a survey of most of the people who had vision impairments in New South Wales. We found the majority of them not only had a vision problem, they were often aged, so they had diminished hearing and lesser mobility. And it made us think as as we were designers, well, what can we do here?

My work supervisor at the time, a man called Frank Holger, managed to carry out a survey of most of the people who had vision impairments in New South Wales. We found the majority of them not only had a vision problem, they were often aged, so they had diminished hearing and lesser mobility. And it made us think as as we were designers, well, what can we do here?

And we really found that the best way was to start a research project.

And we really found that the best way was to start a research project.

That's from Frank culture's oral history.

That's from Frank culture's oral history.

He said, Louis, I want you to design a system that we can use anywhere.

He said, Louis, I want you to design a system that we can use anywhere.

Acoustic engineer Louis Chalice.

Acoustic engineer Louis Chalice.

And that if the people are blind and deaf, they can find a way across the pedestrian crossing. We came up an electronic device based on the Swedish technology used actual mechanical tickers. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. But it didn't last very long. And so I developed over biotech those answers.

And that if the people are blind and deaf, they can find a way across the pedestrian crossing. We came up an electronic device based on the Swedish technology used actual mechanical tickers. Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. But it didn't last very long. And so I developed over biotech those answers.

The new pedestrian button being developed by Frank and Louis wasn't visual. There was no writing or display. Instead, you could hear and feel when it was safe to cross.

The new pedestrian button being developed by Frank and Louis wasn't visual. There was no writing or display. Instead, you could hear and feel when it was safe to cross.

Bill Jolley So the background work was being carried out. He was starting to get somewhere in developing a final product. Our interest then was to get the audible traffic signals out of his office and off his drawing board and into production.

Bill Jolley So the background work was being carried out. He was starting to get somewhere in developing a final product. Our interest then was to get the audible traffic signals out of his office and off his drawing board and into production.

Particularly in those days, there was a lot of things that needed to be done in the world to make life easier for people who are blind or have low vision. There was a lot of feeling amongst people that everybody had to do their bit.

Particularly in those days, there was a lot of things that needed to be done in the world to make life easier for people who are blind or have low vision. There was a lot of feeling amongst people that everybody had to do their bit.

So in 1975, Blind Citizens Australia was formed the first national grassroots advocacy organization run by blind people.

So in 1975, Blind Citizens Australia was formed the first national grassroots advocacy organization run by blind people.

When I was about 19, which was 1979, to just to give my age away. I first got involved with Blind Citizens Australia.

When I was about 19, which was 1979, to just to give my age away. I first got involved with Blind Citizens Australia.

Susan Thomson remembers her first meeting.

Susan Thomson remembers her first meeting.

I walked into this what for me was a darkish room at the time as I was just gradually losing vision. There was a number of older people, middle aged men sitting around before the meeting. Most of them before and during the meeting had earphones in their ear connected to transistor radios in their pockets. So they were kind of half listening to the football and the cricket and whatever was on at the time, Scholes says. Michael Wright was one of those, but there were a number of other people of his vintage. I was thinking, Oh my God, what about walked into.

I walked into this what for me was a darkish room at the time as I was just gradually losing vision. There was a number of older people, middle aged men sitting around before the meeting. Most of them before and during the meeting had earphones in their ear connected to transistor radios in their pockets. So they were kind of half listening to the football and the cricket and whatever was on at the time, Scholes says. Michael Wright was one of those, but there were a number of other people of his vintage. I was thinking, Oh my God, what about walked into.

At that meeting? Susan was the odd one out, but she stayed. She wanted to do her bit for social change. And then other young people joined Blind Citizens Australia too.

At that meeting? Susan was the odd one out, but she stayed. She wanted to do her bit for social change. And then other young people joined Blind Citizens Australia too.

On Graeme Innes. I'm former disability Discrimination Commissioner and I'm totally blind. I've been an advocate in the blindness field since my university years, which were back in the late seventies. I remember Cecil, I remember his involvement in Blind Citizens Australia. I recall him as a strong advocate and someone who, you know, lobbied hard for issues which impacted on many people who were blind or visually impaired.

On Graeme Innes. I'm former disability Discrimination Commissioner and I'm totally blind. I've been an advocate in the blindness field since my university years, which were back in the late seventies. I remember Cecil, I remember his involvement in Blind Citizens Australia. I recall him as a strong advocate and someone who, you know, lobbied hard for issues which impacted on many people who were blind or visually impaired.

Cecil McIlrath is the only disability advocate mentioned on the Powerhouse Museum's record for the pedestrian button. But like a lot of social change, it was a group effort.

Cecil McIlrath is the only disability advocate mentioned on the Powerhouse Museum's record for the pedestrian button. But like a lot of social change, it was a group effort.

I very clearly remember the campaign because the audible traffic signals were so critical to me and my independent movement around the place, so I was very keen to see them introduced.

I very clearly remember the campaign because the audible traffic signals were so critical to me and my independent movement around the place, so I was very keen to see them introduced.

This is pre the International Year of People with Disabilities. It was pre the Commonwealth Disability Services Act. It was pre the Disability Discrimination Act.

This is pre the International Year of People with Disabilities. It was pre the Commonwealth Disability Services Act. It was pre the Disability Discrimination Act.

I remember many of us talking, lobbying, you know, writing to politicians. Any campaign for for change always moves very slowly, far more slowly than you'd like it to. Once you see that the benefits, you just obviously want the things to be available and broadly available. But of course, that's not the way these developments work. What you're doing is you're trying, in fact, to to change the status quo.

I remember many of us talking, lobbying, you know, writing to politicians. Any campaign for for change always moves very slowly, far more slowly than you'd like it to. Once you see that the benefits, you just obviously want the things to be available and broadly available. But of course, that's not the way these developments work. What you're doing is you're trying, in fact, to to change the status quo.

Hey, everybody, blah, blah, complain to justify from people. It really is.

Hey, everybody, blah, blah, complain to justify from people. It really is.

The International Year of People with Disabilities 1981 did start to bring focus more on people with disabilities and the obligation of government to actually cater for people with disabilities and to to do things which meant that people with disabilities could live equally in the community with everybody else.

The International Year of People with Disabilities 1981 did start to bring focus more on people with disabilities and the obligation of government to actually cater for people with disabilities and to to do things which meant that people with disabilities could live equally in the community with everybody else.

And in 1981, after a 15 year campaign for traffic signals, you could hear the New South Wales State Government finally delivered. Bill Jolly shared the good news with the blind community.

And in 1981, after a 15 year campaign for traffic signals, you could hear the New South Wales State Government finally delivered. Bill Jolly shared the good news with the blind community.

Okay, so here we go. I'll read it from the Braille. During his recent proclamation of October the 15th as White Cane Safety Day, the Premier of New South Wales, Mr. Neville Wran, made an announcement that must surely have been music to the ears of many visually handicapped people. He revealed that the Department of Main Roads, after more than seven years of research and trial installations, has ordered 500 audio tactile devices to be fixed to pedestrian pushbutton assemblies at around 100 sites throughout the state.

Okay, so here we go. I'll read it from the Braille. During his recent proclamation of October the 15th as White Cane Safety Day, the Premier of New South Wales, Mr. Neville Wran, made an announcement that must surely have been music to the ears of many visually handicapped people. He revealed that the Department of Main Roads, after more than seven years of research and trial installations, has ordered 500 audio tactile devices to be fixed to pedestrian pushbutton assemblies at around 100 sites throughout the state.

By 1984, the pedestrian button we know and love was designed and installed on Sydney streets. The rest of Australia followed, and these days it's hard to find a crossing without one.

By 1984, the pedestrian button we know and love was designed and installed on Sydney streets. The rest of Australia followed, and these days it's hard to find a crossing without one.

It's it's not always been a smooth road. We had the famous situation in Brisbane, even up until eight or ten years ago, where the traffic lights were turned off at 11:00 at night and not turned back on until 7:00 in the morning.

It's it's not always been a smooth road. We had the famous situation in Brisbane, even up until eight or ten years ago, where the traffic lights were turned off at 11:00 at night and not turned back on until 7:00 in the morning.

I mean, implicit in that is a sort of an assumption that blind people don't want to travel at night.

I mean, implicit in that is a sort of an assumption that blind people don't want to travel at night.

That was a decision of the Brisbane Council based on the lobbying of people, residents who lived near to the traffic lights, who said that the noise, you know, kept them awake at night. Well, you know, maybe don't live in a city if you're disturbed by. Noise like that because buses and garbage trucks and things like that are going to be far more noisy. But you wouldn't take them off the streets.

That was a decision of the Brisbane Council based on the lobbying of people, residents who lived near to the traffic lights, who said that the noise, you know, kept them awake at night. Well, you know, maybe don't live in a city if you're disturbed by. Noise like that because buses and garbage trucks and things like that are going to be far more noisy. But you wouldn't take them off the streets.

So next time you're waiting at a crossing, scrolling your phone, it'll be this sound that gets you moving. The audio tactile pedestrian button is a classic example of accessible design that benefits everybody.

So next time you're waiting at a crossing, scrolling your phone, it'll be this sound that gets you moving. The audio tactile pedestrian button is a classic example of accessible design that benefits everybody.

As a community, we owe Frank Melcher a great debt of gratitude for the commitment that he showed for the product and the standard to be developed.

As a community, we owe Frank Melcher a great debt of gratitude for the commitment that he showed for the product and the standard to be developed.

And most importantly, it was the work of blind and visually impaired people like Cecil McIlrath, Bill Jolley, Susan Thomson and Graeme Innes. Working through organisations like Blind Citizens Australia that got the audio tactile pedestrian button on our streets.

And most importantly, it was the work of blind and visually impaired people like Cecil McIlrath, Bill Jolley, Susan Thomson and Graeme Innes. Working through organisations like Blind Citizens Australia that got the audio tactile pedestrian button on our streets.

I think the difference between then and now is what we were talking about then was what we need, what we talk about and that was what we have a right to. So there's a different mindset.

I think the difference between then and now is what we were talking about then was what we need, what we talk about and that was what we have a right to. So there's a different mindset.

Audible traffic signals now play a key role in making navigation easier for people who are blind or visually impaired. And so much the life of our cities these days that they get into movies and TV shows and even the tracks of songs.

Audible traffic signals now play a key role in making navigation easier for people who are blind or visually impaired. And so much the life of our cities these days that they get into movies and TV shows and even the tracks of songs.

I'm Stella Glory and this is talking vision. And you just heard Push to walk a people's history of the pedestrian button. Wasn't it fantastic? Produced by John Jacobs and Jane Curtis as part of the Powerhouse Museum of Australia Oscillation series of podcast and I highly recommend them if you enjoyed that one and you enjoy, you know, Australian history in Australian sort of inventions as well. Go over to the Powerhouse Museum website, you'll find the podcast there. The podcast, that particular podcast was narrated by Bernie Hobbs, a very big thank you to the Powerhouse Powerhouse Museum for allowing Vision Australia Radio and Talking Vision to replay the documentary. And that is your show for this week. Talking Vision is a production of Vision Australia Radio. Thanks to all involved with putting the program together. And remember, we love your feedback, your comments and your ideas. And if you've heard anything on today's show and you'd like more information, you can contact us at Talking Vision at Vision Australia dot org. That's talking vision at Vision Australia dot org and we'll see you next time. You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us any time during business hours on one 300 8474w6 that's 13847466 or by visiting Vision Australia dot org that's Vision Australia dot org.

I'm Stella Glory and this is talking vision. And you just heard Push to walk a people's history of the pedestrian button. Wasn't it fantastic? Produced by John Jacobs and Jane Curtis as part of the Powerhouse Museum of Australia Oscillation series of podcast and I highly recommend them if you enjoyed that one and you enjoy, you know, Australian history in Australian sort of inventions as well. Go over to the Powerhouse Museum website, you'll find the podcast there. The podcast, that particular podcast was narrated by Bernie Hobbs, a very big thank you to the Powerhouse Powerhouse Museum for allowing Vision Australia Radio and Talking Vision to replay the documentary. And that is your show for this week. Talking Vision is a production of Vision Australia Radio. Thanks to all involved with putting the program together. And remember, we love your feedback, your comments and your ideas. And if you've heard anything on today's show and you'd like more information, you can contact us at Talking Vision at Vision Australia dot org. That's talking vision at Vision Australia dot org and we'll see you next time. You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us any time during business hours on one 300 8474w6 that's 13847466 or by visiting Vision Australia dot org that's Vision Australia dot org.