From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam Collins.

From Vision Australia. This is talking vision. And now here's your host, Sam Collins.

Hello? It's not Sam Cole this week. It's Tess Herbert. Welcome to a special white Cane Day edition of Talking Visions. Now, this is a very important day to celebrate those fabulous devices that help people who are blind or have low vision like me, and around safely and independently. I've been using a white cane for 26 years. Not the same one always got bent, and it used to help me get around my local primary school, get to places in my home town as a teenager, tackle the main streets of Melbourne when I moved there as an adult and now I'm living in lovely oldbury. It helps me get to my favourite coffee place, which is very important. I guess the next step will be learning to use the paint to get to the pub. Coming up next, Sam interviews Dianne Luck and Tony from Ballarat. A white cane user of two years after losing her vision later in life. And I think this will be a really great interview hearing the perspective of someone who has lived with sight and then had to learn to live without it and get around using a cane and someone who's been blind since I was born and was using a cane since I was five. I'm really looking forward to this interview. I will also be speaking to Graeme Innes and Maryanne Dimond about their exciting new roles on the board of the National Disability Insurance Agency, which is responsible for implementing the NDIS. And that interview is coming up later. So do stay tuned for that and to wrap up the show. Frances Cleland joins us for a Vision Australia Library Reader recommendation. Now, as a few listeners will know, I absolutely love the Virgin Australia Library, so looking forward to hearing from Frances. But coming up now, we have some with Diane and Tony. Over to you, Sam.

Hello? It's not Sam Cole this week. It's Tess Herbert. Welcome to a special white Cane Day edition of Talking Visions. Now, this is a very important day to celebrate those fabulous devices that help people who are blind or have low vision like me, and around safely and independently. I've been using a white cane for 26 years. Not the same one always got bent, and it used to help me get around my local primary school, get to places in my home town as a teenager, tackle the main streets of Melbourne when I moved there as an adult and now I'm living in lovely oldbury. It helps me get to my favourite coffee place, which is very important. I guess the next step will be learning to use the paint to get to the pub. Coming up next, Sam interviews Dianne Luck and Tony from Ballarat. A white cane user of two years after losing her vision later in life. And I think this will be a really great interview hearing the perspective of someone who has lived with sight and then had to learn to live without it and get around using a cane and someone who's been blind since I was born and was using a cane since I was five. I'm really looking forward to this interview. I will also be speaking to Graeme Innes and Maryanne Dimond about their exciting new roles on the board of the National Disability Insurance Agency, which is responsible for implementing the NDIS. And that interview is coming up later. So do stay tuned for that and to wrap up the show. Frances Cleland joins us for a Vision Australia Library Reader recommendation. Now, as a few listeners will know, I absolutely love the Virgin Australia Library, so looking forward to hearing from Frances. But coming up now, we have some with Diane and Tony. Over to you, Sam.

Thanks very much, Tess. That's right. As Tess mentioned, I'm speaking today with Diane Look and Tony, I want Kane user from Ballarat who's had her cane for the last two years. Diane, welcome to Talking Vision. Thanks so much for joining us today on this White Cane Day special.

Thanks very much, Tess. That's right. As Tess mentioned, I'm speaking today with Diane Look and Tony, I want Kane user from Ballarat who's had her cane for the last two years. Diane, welcome to Talking Vision. Thanks so much for joining us today on this White Cane Day special.

Now, I thank you very much for having me.

Now, I thank you very much for having me.

What a new. Tell us a bit about yourself. You could talk about how you came to be paired up with your want cane and also sort of what that's meant for your mobility and your independence.

What a new. Tell us a bit about yourself. You could talk about how you came to be paired up with your want cane and also sort of what that's meant for your mobility and your independence.

Yeah, I was diagnosed firstly just before Christmas in 2019 with macular degenerative and runner apathy and losing my sight. And it was a big hurdle. And then in 2020 I was in touch with Vision Australia for support and the team there in Ballarat and unfortunately we had the pandemic. That's right. That threw a bit of a spanner in the work. And so mainly I had support via video recording from Mobility Gentleman Chris Meaney and I sort of picked it up from that incident and it was difficult for me to sort of get out and I suppose learning the use of the white cane having a positive effect. My daughter and I went out to a local shopping area and had a few practice runs and from there I was progressed, got Ms. so out and about a little bit is a slow, yeah, getting the confidence and the self-esteem and it was emotional rollercoaster for me out and about and publicly and socially. And then over the 2020 restrictions were lifting and I had more support through Vision Australia here in Ballarat and a lot of support from my, my daughter and family. And then the Independent, I suppose it kicked in a little bit where I got a little bit more confident. I went forward, then I went backwards a few steps, mentally and physically. It was tiring and exhausting and now I'm learning how to get out a little bit more. I'm now in the progress of having some social things as well, like the YMCA, which I'm going to start soon. I'm attempting to do some horse riding lessons.

Yeah, I was diagnosed firstly just before Christmas in 2019 with macular degenerative and runner apathy and losing my sight. And it was a big hurdle. And then in 2020 I was in touch with Vision Australia for support and the team there in Ballarat and unfortunately we had the pandemic. That's right. That threw a bit of a spanner in the work. And so mainly I had support via video recording from Mobility Gentleman Chris Meaney and I sort of picked it up from that incident and it was difficult for me to sort of get out and I suppose learning the use of the white cane having a positive effect. My daughter and I went out to a local shopping area and had a few practice runs and from there I was progressed, got Ms. so out and about a little bit is a slow, yeah, getting the confidence and the self-esteem and it was emotional rollercoaster for me out and about and publicly and socially. And then over the 2020 restrictions were lifting and I had more support through Vision Australia here in Ballarat and a lot of support from my, my daughter and family. And then the Independent, I suppose it kicked in a little bit where I got a little bit more confident. I went forward, then I went backwards a few steps, mentally and physically. It was tiring and exhausting and now I'm learning how to get out a little bit more. I'm now in the progress of having some social things as well, like the YMCA, which I'm going to start soon. I'm attempting to do some horse riding lessons.

Oh, wow.

Oh, wow.

Yes.

Yes.

Okay, that's pretty exciting. So talk us through a bit about that emotional rollercoaster that you did face and sort of the same things that a lot of people who are new white cane users going through such a huge change in their life and adapting to so many new tools and technologies and things like that was the feelings of sort of the hesitations or, you know, maybe you had some concerns or some. Worries or maybe a bit of anxiety about getting back out and about and how to just sort of overcome that.

Okay, that's pretty exciting. So talk us through a bit about that emotional rollercoaster that you did face and sort of the same things that a lot of people who are new white cane users going through such a huge change in their life and adapting to so many new tools and technologies and things like that was the feelings of sort of the hesitations or, you know, maybe you had some concerns or some. Worries or maybe a bit of anxiety about getting back out and about and how to just sort of overcome that.

Well, within authority, I also have a mental health depression. So with the support of a psychologist, I've sort of backpedaled a little bit. I wasn't confident enough to get and seek some help. I mainly stayed home, shut the stuff out a little bit. But a lot of that was through this pandemic that we were also going through.

Well, within authority, I also have a mental health depression. So with the support of a psychologist, I've sort of backpedaled a little bit. I wasn't confident enough to get and seek some help. I mainly stayed home, shut the stuff out a little bit. But a lot of that was through this pandemic that we were also going through.

So that's right. Yeah.

So that's right. Yeah.

Mentally, it wasn't the best of times.

Mentally, it wasn't the best of times.

Now, of course.

Now, of course.

I had to build up a little bit of self-esteem once I was out and about a little bit local shopping or just to go to the GP. I struggled and learning to get out a little bit more. I had to push myself a little bit more and I got over a few hurdles regarding socially get out for, say, a coffee or lunch or as we like to do a family thing. It was difficult at first, a feeling that everyone was looking at me, watching me. I had to put a bit of a brave face on, but at the same time I sort of stood there and just thought, Well, I can do this, boy, you know? And and I did. But gradually it wasn't a thing overnight. It just and I still do struggle at times and I still think, well, silly me or, you know, get out there. You know, I was like, aware and people started accepting me who I was that I'd never changed. I love adventure. I love all sorts of events Like I've been going to concerts, which is a great therapy. I love my fans, always have from the seventies right through. I love my band. I love that feeling of being there and the excitement and, you know, just let myself go.

I had to build up a little bit of self-esteem once I was out and about a little bit local shopping or just to go to the GP. I struggled and learning to get out a little bit more. I had to push myself a little bit more and I got over a few hurdles regarding socially get out for, say, a coffee or lunch or as we like to do a family thing. It was difficult at first, a feeling that everyone was looking at me, watching me. I had to put a bit of a brave face on, but at the same time I sort of stood there and just thought, Well, I can do this, boy, you know? And and I did. But gradually it wasn't a thing overnight. It just and I still do struggle at times and I still think, well, silly me or, you know, get out there. You know, I was like, aware and people started accepting me who I was that I'd never changed. I love adventure. I love all sorts of events Like I've been going to concerts, which is a great therapy. I love my fans, always have from the seventies right through. I love my band. I love that feeling of being there and the excitement and, you know, just let myself go.

We've talked about the challenges a bit more generally, but what have been some challenges in particular related to the white cane, perhaps with the getting around and getting used to how it works?

We've talked about the challenges a bit more generally, but what have been some challenges in particular related to the white cane, perhaps with the getting around and getting used to how it works?

Yeah, it does take me some time. It's a blessing to have this white cane when you're out and about. Not only people sort of move out of your way, I suppose, but you get to know the bridge more freely since it's got brick passing throughout the whole mall. Then you've got the park like bitumen, so you can feel that, you can feel the surfaces, you can feel the little bumps and obstacles. It's just a matter of persevering it, learning where they are. Nothing in your head. Oh, that's right. It's three steps away from, say, for example, like a café outdoors. Yeah.

Yeah, it does take me some time. It's a blessing to have this white cane when you're out and about. Not only people sort of move out of your way, I suppose, but you get to know the bridge more freely since it's got brick passing throughout the whole mall. Then you've got the park like bitumen, so you can feel that, you can feel the surfaces, you can feel the little bumps and obstacles. It's just a matter of persevering it, learning where they are. Nothing in your head. Oh, that's right. It's three steps away from, say, for example, like a café outdoors. Yeah.

No, the al fresco.

No, the al fresco.

Yeah, the al fresco. That's challenging. A lot of them sticking out on.

Yeah, the al fresco. That's challenging. A lot of them sticking out on.

That's right. All the chairs.

That's right. All the chairs.

And it's almost like an obstacle, Right?

And it's almost like an obstacle, Right?

It is obstacle course. They've got all the signs put out and you can trip over them and yeah.

It is obstacle course. They've got all the signs put out and you can trip over them and yeah.

And I've approached businesses to say, look, you know, hang on a sec please, please bring them in away from walking, you know. Yeah.

And I've approached businesses to say, look, you know, hang on a sec please, please bring them in away from walking, you know. Yeah.

Kind areas of the footpath.

Kind areas of the footpath.

To people with disabilities. I'm very passionate about their safety and getting out and about and around without all these obstacles in their way. Dog sticking out a little bit. The bollards sticking out a little bit.

To people with disabilities. I'm very passionate about their safety and getting out and about and around without all these obstacles in their way. Dog sticking out a little bit. The bollards sticking out a little bit.

That's right. Yeah. So those are the challenges which we've overcome since the beginning of the pandemic. And you know, now as things do open up and people do get out and about more and it's given you more opportunities to, I suppose, hone your skills with your want cane. And that's where I suppose from what you've told me, all the benefits have really come to the fore. So that's really exciting to hear about that ongoing journey that you have had, that sort of all really coming together and you know, things are picking up a bit. So that's very good to hear. Now, would you have any advice for anyone who might be afraid to take that first step to be paired up with a white cane?

That's right. Yeah. So those are the challenges which we've overcome since the beginning of the pandemic. And you know, now as things do open up and people do get out and about more and it's given you more opportunities to, I suppose, hone your skills with your want cane. And that's where I suppose from what you've told me, all the benefits have really come to the fore. So that's really exciting to hear about that ongoing journey that you have had, that sort of all really coming together and you know, things are picking up a bit. So that's very good to hear. Now, would you have any advice for anyone who might be afraid to take that first step to be paired up with a white cane?

Yeah, I think finding that support is the most important thing, whether it's a friend, a neighbor, your family members, it does effect them as well. Emotionally, physically, mentally. It does affect everyone. Everyone Take their own stride. Don't rush it. It will happen eventually. You will get your self esteem and little bit of confidence and day by day just try and get a. You locally. Look at your community. There's all different community hubs these days. If you're isolated, you can always speak to your GP or the nurse or someone that's out there, you know, and then you can ring Vision Australia or Australian guide dogs. There's so many opportunities out there that are open. I found not only my psychologist, but I just found my local GP Vision Australia. The claim when they have market in locally around here in Ballarat. Have a chat to them. Have a chat to anyone that you feel comfortable and things will happen, Things will open. And I think the main thing is keep on smiling, keep on having a bit of a laugh, a bit of a cry. It's that that gets you through that day. That does help. Eventually, you know, I still have my days where I have that little cry or I do away from things. But then I turn around and look at myself and say, You can do this. So yeah, that's my advice.

Yeah, I think finding that support is the most important thing, whether it's a friend, a neighbor, your family members, it does effect them as well. Emotionally, physically, mentally. It does affect everyone. Everyone Take their own stride. Don't rush it. It will happen eventually. You will get your self esteem and little bit of confidence and day by day just try and get a. You locally. Look at your community. There's all different community hubs these days. If you're isolated, you can always speak to your GP or the nurse or someone that's out there, you know, and then you can ring Vision Australia or Australian guide dogs. There's so many opportunities out there that are open. I found not only my psychologist, but I just found my local GP Vision Australia. The claim when they have market in locally around here in Ballarat. Have a chat to them. Have a chat to anyone that you feel comfortable and things will happen, Things will open. And I think the main thing is keep on smiling, keep on having a bit of a laugh, a bit of a cry. It's that that gets you through that day. That does help. Eventually, you know, I still have my days where I have that little cry or I do away from things. But then I turn around and look at myself and say, You can do this. So yeah, that's my advice.

Oh, that's fantastic advice and super important things to keep at the forefront of everybody's mind and great words to live by. So thank you so much. I've been speaking today with Dianne look and Tony I want can use of two years from Ballarat telling me all about her experiences today with the white cane.

Oh, that's fantastic advice and super important things to keep at the forefront of everybody's mind and great words to live by. So thank you so much. I've been speaking today with Dianne look and Tony I want can use of two years from Ballarat telling me all about her experiences today with the white cane.

Hello again. I'm taking this. You're listening to a special White Cane Day episode of Open Vision here on Vision Australia Radio. Our associated stations of IPH and Community Radio Network. You just heard from Sam chatting with Diane and Tony with her experience as a white cane user. I hope you're enjoying the show. If you are, you can find previous episodes at Radio Dot Vision Australia dot org or you can look up on your favourite podcasting platform, whatever that might be. You'll find this three Division Australia Library. Now please enjoy my conversation with Graeme Innes and Mary Anne Dimond. Today. I'm delighted to have on Talking Vision with me Graeme Innes and Maryanne Dimond, who have recently been appointed to the NDIS board. Now the idea is the National Disability Insurance Agency, which is responsible for implementing the NDIS, which offers better choice and control to people with disabilities. So Maryanne and Graeme, it's wonderful to have you with me. Thank you for being here.

Hello again. I'm taking this. You're listening to a special White Cane Day episode of Open Vision here on Vision Australia Radio. Our associated stations of IPH and Community Radio Network. You just heard from Sam chatting with Diane and Tony with her experience as a white cane user. I hope you're enjoying the show. If you are, you can find previous episodes at Radio Dot Vision Australia dot org or you can look up on your favourite podcasting platform, whatever that might be. You'll find this three Division Australia Library. Now please enjoy my conversation with Graeme Innes and Mary Anne Dimond. Today. I'm delighted to have on Talking Vision with me Graeme Innes and Maryanne Dimond, who have recently been appointed to the NDIS board. Now the idea is the National Disability Insurance Agency, which is responsible for implementing the NDIS, which offers better choice and control to people with disabilities. So Maryanne and Graeme, it's wonderful to have you with me. Thank you for being here.

Great to be here.

Great to be here.

Thank you.

Thank you.

So can you tell me how did you can't be members of the board? Graeme, would you like to start?

So can you tell me how did you can't be members of the board? Graeme, would you like to start?

Well I guess you come to these roles based on the experience and an expertise you can bring. I've been a member of the State Insurance Regulatory Authority Board in New South Wales, which administers similar schemes not as bigger schemes but similar schemes to the NDIS. And I've had other experience as a director, and prior to that I was the a commissioner at the Australian Human Rights Commission. So I suppose, you know, you bring your skills and experience with you when you come to a board like this.

Well I guess you come to these roles based on the experience and an expertise you can bring. I've been a member of the State Insurance Regulatory Authority Board in New South Wales, which administers similar schemes not as bigger schemes but similar schemes to the NDIS. And I've had other experience as a director, and prior to that I was the a commissioner at the Australian Human Rights Commission. So I suppose, you know, you bring your skills and experience with you when you come to a board like this.

Definitely. And what about you, Marianne? What's your background.

Definitely. And what about you, Marianne? What's your background.

Like? Graham I've done different things over the years. I've worked in the blindness sector for some time. I worked in the disability sector, leading organisations. I was involved in the advisory committee to the then secretary, Parliamentary Secretary Bill Shorten, when the Productivity Commission undertook its work, which led to the establishment of the NDIS and, you know, of led organisations at the global level too. So a bit like Graeme saying based on our experience and expertise, we've all been and everyone on the board is the same identified as people who can make a contribution.

Like? Graham I've done different things over the years. I've worked in the blindness sector for some time. I worked in the disability sector, leading organisations. I was involved in the advisory committee to the then secretary, Parliamentary Secretary Bill Shorten, when the Productivity Commission undertook its work, which led to the establishment of the NDIS and, you know, of led organisations at the global level too. So a bit like Graeme saying based on our experience and expertise, we've all been and everyone on the board is the same identified as people who can make a contribution.

Well yes, and you also have lived the experience of disability, so I'm sure that must impact the contribution you make because you are part of a board that is implementing a scheme that is helping other people with disability. So I'm sure that lived experience is helpful too. Is that right?

Well yes, and you also have lived the experience of disability, so I'm sure that must impact the contribution you make because you are part of a board that is implementing a scheme that is helping other people with disability. So I'm sure that lived experience is helpful too. Is that right?

I think it has to be taken as a one of the areas of experience that benefits the board and I think the Minister is of that view because he has appointed three people to the board, Maryanne and I and the new chair, Kurt Fearnley, who all bring lived experience as well as our other skill sets.

I think it has to be taken as a one of the areas of experience that benefits the board and I think the Minister is of that view because he has appointed three people to the board, Maryanne and I and the new chair, Kurt Fearnley, who all bring lived experience as well as our other skill sets.

And what are you most looking forward to about working on the NDIA board? Marianne Would you like to start with that one as well?

And what are you most looking forward to about working on the NDIA board? Marianne Would you like to start with that one as well?

I'm most looking forward to is being able to contribute to this scheme that people with disability in Australia regain the trust in. It's not difficult to get into the scheme if you are eligible and manage your way through the bureaucracy. That often happens in government run things. So I'm looking forward to making a contribution in all of those areas and building a scheme that people want and can use and use effectively.

I'm most looking forward to is being able to contribute to this scheme that people with disability in Australia regain the trust in. It's not difficult to get into the scheme if you are eligible and manage your way through the bureaucracy. That often happens in government run things. So I'm looking forward to making a contribution in all of those areas and building a scheme that people want and can use and use effectively.

I think that's right. I mean, Marion is is right. There are over 500,000 people on the scheme. I think it's true that 200,000 of those who have never received disability services before in their lives. So I always think it's important to put the NDIS in context. That is a really important part of Australia's support system for people with disabilities and for many, many people it has made a huge positive difference to their lives. There have been issues in the scheme over the last few years which have impacted on people's trust in the scheme and so one of the things that we all need to do as board members is to try to redevelop that trust and confidence in the scheme and acceptance that it can be the vehicle to taking you towards a better quality of life and more choice and control.

I think that's right. I mean, Marion is is right. There are over 500,000 people on the scheme. I think it's true that 200,000 of those who have never received disability services before in their lives. So I always think it's important to put the NDIS in context. That is a really important part of Australia's support system for people with disabilities and for many, many people it has made a huge positive difference to their lives. There have been issues in the scheme over the last few years which have impacted on people's trust in the scheme and so one of the things that we all need to do as board members is to try to redevelop that trust and confidence in the scheme and acceptance that it can be the vehicle to taking you towards a better quality of life and more choice and control.

Well, I can certainly testify to the huge difference that the NDIS has made on my life. I mean, I had some disability services, orientation, mobility and occupational therapy, but just having a support worker, I mean, at first it was just 3 hours a week and, you know, just helping with my shopping, my cooking, doing some cleaning because I'm a bit obsessive compulsive and I like to know that everything is thoroughly cleaned and sometimes I'm unable to do that. And just even small things, you know, like having someone to help me buy fresh flowers for my house or fresh bread. You know, it's all about those choices and the opportunities that I just would not have had, you know, and being able to, you know, go for a walk whenever I whenever I'd like. To like all of these things. They seem small, but they're actually actually make a huge difference to my mental health and well-being and I'm sure to many others. So I think you're both quite right in what you say. And what do you see as being the biggest challenges that you will face on your work with the board? Marianne, would you like to start?

Well, I can certainly testify to the huge difference that the NDIS has made on my life. I mean, I had some disability services, orientation, mobility and occupational therapy, but just having a support worker, I mean, at first it was just 3 hours a week and, you know, just helping with my shopping, my cooking, doing some cleaning because I'm a bit obsessive compulsive and I like to know that everything is thoroughly cleaned and sometimes I'm unable to do that. And just even small things, you know, like having someone to help me buy fresh flowers for my house or fresh bread. You know, it's all about those choices and the opportunities that I just would not have had, you know, and being able to, you know, go for a walk whenever I whenever I'd like. To like all of these things. They seem small, but they're actually actually make a huge difference to my mental health and well-being and I'm sure to many others. So I think you're both quite right in what you say. And what do you see as being the biggest challenges that you will face on your work with the board? Marianne, would you like to start?

I think we identified in an earlier question. I think that one of the big challenges is to regain the trust of the disability community, which in recent years has been to a degree lost, as Graham mentioned earlier. And you did two tests. For a lot of people. The NDIS has been life changing, but it hasn't quite been the same for everybody. And I think, you know, the one of the challenges is making sure that people and even the taxpayers who actually pay for the NDIS, not even people who don't even have disability, that they know that this is well-governed, well-managed and sustainable. And when I say sustainable, I don't just mean dollars sustainable, I mean sustainable for dollars, and that people with disabilities achieve their goals that they set themselves. So I kind of think that are some of the challenges we'll be dealing with. Graham might have others.

I think we identified in an earlier question. I think that one of the big challenges is to regain the trust of the disability community, which in recent years has been to a degree lost, as Graham mentioned earlier. And you did two tests. For a lot of people. The NDIS has been life changing, but it hasn't quite been the same for everybody. And I think, you know, the one of the challenges is making sure that people and even the taxpayers who actually pay for the NDIS, not even people who don't even have disability, that they know that this is well-governed, well-managed and sustainable. And when I say sustainable, I don't just mean dollars sustainable, I mean sustainable for dollars, and that people with disabilities achieve their goals that they set themselves. So I kind of think that are some of the challenges we'll be dealing with. Graham might have others.

Now, I agree with you. I think one of the other things, and I'm sure there'll be many challenges on a board of an organisation this week, but one of the other things is to, if you like, sit the place of the NDIS. There's been a lot of conversation in public and in the media in the last few years about the scheme not being sustainable and I think it's important to bear in mind that the research that per capita did late last year, which demonstrates that for every dollar spent by the NDIS, $2.25 comes back into the Australian economy. So it is now a very big part of the functioning Australian economy. It's increasing the number of disability support workers who are employed. It's providing greater opportunities for people with disabilities to get employment and to participate in the community. And of course issues around sustainability have to be monitored and watched. But I think it's important that the scheme is viewed in a more balanced way than perhaps it has been over the last few years.

Now, I agree with you. I think one of the other things, and I'm sure there'll be many challenges on a board of an organisation this week, but one of the other things is to, if you like, sit the place of the NDIS. There's been a lot of conversation in public and in the media in the last few years about the scheme not being sustainable and I think it's important to bear in mind that the research that per capita did late last year, which demonstrates that for every dollar spent by the NDIS, $2.25 comes back into the Australian economy. So it is now a very big part of the functioning Australian economy. It's increasing the number of disability support workers who are employed. It's providing greater opportunities for people with disabilities to get employment and to participate in the community. And of course issues around sustainability have to be monitored and watched. But I think it's important that the scheme is viewed in a more balanced way than perhaps it has been over the last few years.

Incrementally, That's a very important thing. The last question I have is, I mean, you to people who who could probably be seen as role models for people who are blind and have low vision people like me. I guess it's a difficult question. I know, but do you think that your own significant career achievements have maybe made it easier for other people who are blind or have life vision to maybe feel like they can meet their career goals, whatever they may be.

Incrementally, That's a very important thing. The last question I have is, I mean, you to people who who could probably be seen as role models for people who are blind and have low vision people like me. I guess it's a difficult question. I know, but do you think that your own significant career achievements have maybe made it easier for other people who are blind or have life vision to maybe feel like they can meet their career goals, whatever they may be.

On that one test? I can only speak from my own experience, and I remember as a teenager and a young man how much I learned from other people who were blind or visually impaired. People in New South Wales, like Mary Sheng and various other women who were out there operating in the community, going to university, doing work. And then I came into contact in Victoria with people like David Blythe and saw that they were running their own businesses. And, and as well as that, I was a family friend of a parliamentarian in New South Wales, David Hunter. And that said to me, Well, if those people can do those things, then I can really do anything that I want to and I hope that I've been able to emulate that example for other people who are blind or visually impaired. So I think there's a real benefit in peer interaction in and in peer support to demonstrate to people that, sure, blindness is a disability and it has various handicaps that we're aware of in the areas of things like information and getting around the place. But it's not a barrier to doing things. And so I suppose if anything that I've done has helped to give people that view, then I'm really pleased.

On that one test? I can only speak from my own experience, and I remember as a teenager and a young man how much I learned from other people who were blind or visually impaired. People in New South Wales, like Mary Sheng and various other women who were out there operating in the community, going to university, doing work. And then I came into contact in Victoria with people like David Blythe and saw that they were running their own businesses. And, and as well as that, I was a family friend of a parliamentarian in New South Wales, David Hunter. And that said to me, Well, if those people can do those things, then I can really do anything that I want to and I hope that I've been able to emulate that example for other people who are blind or visually impaired. So I think there's a real benefit in peer interaction in and in peer support to demonstrate to people that, sure, blindness is a disability and it has various handicaps that we're aware of in the areas of things like information and getting around the place. But it's not a barrier to doing things. And so I suppose if anything that I've done has helped to give people that view, then I'm really pleased.

And I think what you say about learning from other people who are blind or have low vision is absolutely very much with my own experiences. It was a time when I wanted to study psychology and be a psychologist and I didn't know if I'd be able to do the body language and hearing the other people have done it was a real boost. What do you think, Marianne? Do you feel like that's been a thing? Do you feeling feeling like maybe your own successes have made it a bit easier for other blind people to meet their career goals, or have you found the same experience? Graham That you often learn a lot from other people who are blind or have low vision?

And I think what you say about learning from other people who are blind or have low vision is absolutely very much with my own experiences. It was a time when I wanted to study psychology and be a psychologist and I didn't know if I'd be able to do the body language and hearing the other people have done it was a real boost. What do you think, Marianne? Do you feel like that's been a thing? Do you feeling feeling like maybe your own successes have made it a bit easier for other blind people to meet their career goals, or have you found the same experience? Graham That you often learn a lot from other people who are blind or have low vision?

Certainly I would agree with Graham in that is people that you've encountered along the way have made a big difference in your own expectations of what is possible. And I would even go further back than looking to what I was going to do and what career I would have to my parents, my parents attitude to blindness and disability, which was, you know, well, there was none, no difference in my brothers and sisters and myself. And so I'm a strong believer in it starts really right back then at the attitudes of your parents and your family as to what you what you think you can do yourself. Because if they don't think you can do anything, you probably won't think you can either. So I think it starts there. And like Rome, it's the people I came across over the years and I kind of just thought, well, I was always willing to give something a try, even if I thought I'd be successful or not. And if I wasn't successful, that was also fine. And people sometimes avoid things that they may not succeeding because they're worried. Whereas I think that part of life and part of growth is actually sometimes it doesn't work out. So I think people are really important. And like Graham, you know, I think the people we've all met in the blindness sector have made a huge difference in our lives and to others, but we're all different. So, you know what? Get someone motivated might be slightly different for someone else, but I do strongly believe in peer support and role modeling.

Certainly I would agree with Graham in that is people that you've encountered along the way have made a big difference in your own expectations of what is possible. And I would even go further back than looking to what I was going to do and what career I would have to my parents, my parents attitude to blindness and disability, which was, you know, well, there was none, no difference in my brothers and sisters and myself. And so I'm a strong believer in it starts really right back then at the attitudes of your parents and your family as to what you what you think you can do yourself. Because if they don't think you can do anything, you probably won't think you can either. So I think it starts there. And like Rome, it's the people I came across over the years and I kind of just thought, well, I was always willing to give something a try, even if I thought I'd be successful or not. And if I wasn't successful, that was also fine. And people sometimes avoid things that they may not succeeding because they're worried. Whereas I think that part of life and part of growth is actually sometimes it doesn't work out. So I think people are really important. And like Graham, you know, I think the people we've all met in the blindness sector have made a huge difference in our lives and to others, but we're all different. So, you know what? Get someone motivated might be slightly different for someone else, but I do strongly believe in peer support and role modeling.

Yeah, you cannot be. What you cannot see is a real mantra of the women's movement and of other disadvantaged groups, and it's really important to see other people in those sorts of roles.

Yeah, you cannot be. What you cannot see is a real mantra of the women's movement and of other disadvantaged groups, and it's really important to see other people in those sorts of roles.

Absolutely agree. I think that's a great note to end things on. Marianne Graham, thank you so much for chatting with me. It's been an absolute pleasure. Coming up now, Frances Cleland joins us for a Vision Australia Library Reader recommendation.

Absolutely agree. I think that's a great note to end things on. Marianne Graham, thank you so much for chatting with me. It's been an absolute pleasure. Coming up now, Frances Cleland joins us for a Vision Australia Library Reader recommendation.

This is Before I Forget, and it's by Christine Bryden when she was just 46, Christine Bryden, science adviser to the Prime Minister and single mother of three daughters, was diagnosed with younger onset dementia. Doctors told her to get her affairs in order as she would soon be incapable of doing so. 20 years later, she's still thriving, still working hard to rewire her brain, even as it loses its function. The unusually slow progress of her condition puts Christine in a unique position to describe the lived experience of dementia, a condition affecting tens of millions of people worldwide. In this revealing memoir, she looks back on her life in an effort to understand how her brain, once her greatest asset, now her greatest challenge, works now. She shares what it's like to start grasping for words that used to come easily, to be exhausted from visiting a new place, to suddenly realize you don't remember how to drive. To challenge everyday the stereotype of the empty shell. Brave and inspiring. This is Christine's legacy for people with dementia and those who care about them. Let's hear a sample of Before I Forget by Christine Bryden with Sarah Means. It's narrated by Jackie Halliday.

This is Before I Forget, and it's by Christine Bryden when she was just 46, Christine Bryden, science adviser to the Prime Minister and single mother of three daughters, was diagnosed with younger onset dementia. Doctors told her to get her affairs in order as she would soon be incapable of doing so. 20 years later, she's still thriving, still working hard to rewire her brain, even as it loses its function. The unusually slow progress of her condition puts Christine in a unique position to describe the lived experience of dementia, a condition affecting tens of millions of people worldwide. In this revealing memoir, she looks back on her life in an effort to understand how her brain, once her greatest asset, now her greatest challenge, works now. She shares what it's like to start grasping for words that used to come easily, to be exhausted from visiting a new place, to suddenly realize you don't remember how to drive. To challenge everyday the stereotype of the empty shell. Brave and inspiring. This is Christine's legacy for people with dementia and those who care about them. Let's hear a sample of Before I Forget by Christine Bryden with Sarah Means. It's narrated by Jackie Halliday.

There's a clear dichotomy to my adult life, and it is divided by the moment Doctor told me I had dementia. Before that day I was a whip smart, multi-tasking scientist on a clear career trajectory that seemed sky high. I was also a dedicated mother, aware of all that was going on in my children's lives, spending all my spare time with them, talking, reading, sitting with them. As soon as I was told that my brain had a degenerative, incurable disease, I felt exiled from my former self and life. In 1995. My divorce from a long, unhappy marriage had just been finalised. My two youngest daughters, then aged 14 and nine and I had spent the weekend moving into our new home. A house in Canberra we had just bought. My eldest daughter, aged 20, was in Sydney University. I was finally out of a marriage that had caused me a great deal of pain, humiliation and self-doubt over many years. I held a senior job in the public service. I was the first Assistant secretary in the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet heading up a division and advising the Prime Minister on science and technology. I could hold so much in my head at the same time, I could juggle multiple tasks. I was highly organized and you only had to tell me something once and I'd hold on to that piece of information forever. I was also, it should be noted, a little bit dismissive of people who weren't as capable as me. I had no idea that fast thinking, creativity and super memory were not usual. It's strange, but I barely recognise the woman I'm writing about. It certainly doesn't feel like me. I feel as though I'm talking about someone I used to know along my sister or friend who used to be a big part of my life, but whom I can now only vaguely identify with. But for the previous year or so, something hadn't been right. I was having trouble coping at work. A few things were slipping through my hitherto vice like brain, and I was suffering from crippling migraines that would last for days, sometimes occurring up to once a week. I had put it all down to stress and had continued to cope with the help of my wonderful personal assistant and some strong pain medication.

There's a clear dichotomy to my adult life, and it is divided by the moment Doctor told me I had dementia. Before that day I was a whip smart, multi-tasking scientist on a clear career trajectory that seemed sky high. I was also a dedicated mother, aware of all that was going on in my children's lives, spending all my spare time with them, talking, reading, sitting with them. As soon as I was told that my brain had a degenerative, incurable disease, I felt exiled from my former self and life. In 1995. My divorce from a long, unhappy marriage had just been finalised. My two youngest daughters, then aged 14 and nine and I had spent the weekend moving into our new home. A house in Canberra we had just bought. My eldest daughter, aged 20, was in Sydney University. I was finally out of a marriage that had caused me a great deal of pain, humiliation and self-doubt over many years. I held a senior job in the public service. I was the first Assistant secretary in the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet heading up a division and advising the Prime Minister on science and technology. I could hold so much in my head at the same time, I could juggle multiple tasks. I was highly organized and you only had to tell me something once and I'd hold on to that piece of information forever. I was also, it should be noted, a little bit dismissive of people who weren't as capable as me. I had no idea that fast thinking, creativity and super memory were not usual. It's strange, but I barely recognise the woman I'm writing about. It certainly doesn't feel like me. I feel as though I'm talking about someone I used to know along my sister or friend who used to be a big part of my life, but whom I can now only vaguely identify with. But for the previous year or so, something hadn't been right. I was having trouble coping at work. A few things were slipping through my hitherto vice like brain, and I was suffering from crippling migraines that would last for days, sometimes occurring up to once a week. I had put it all down to stress and had continued to cope with the help of my wonderful personal assistant and some strong pain medication.

That was a sample of Before I Forget by Christine Bryden. Christine is c h. R i s t. I. A. C h. R i. S t i. In a Brighton is b r y d in b r y d in written in conjunction with Sarah means in that book goes for 6 hours and 45 minutes.

That was a sample of Before I Forget by Christine Bryden. Christine is c h. R i s t. I. A. C h. R i. S t i. In a Brighton is b r y d in b r y d in written in conjunction with Sarah means in that book goes for 6 hours and 45 minutes.

And I'm afraid that's all we have time for today. You've been listening to a special white cane episode of Talking Vision. Going Again is production of Vision Australia Radio, and we'd like to give many thanks to all people involved with putting the program together. And remember, we love your feedback and your comments, so do keep them coming. You can contact us by emailing Talking vision at Vision Australia dot org. That's talking vision. Vision Australia dot org. Until next week it's goodbye for now.

And I'm afraid that's all we have time for today. You've been listening to a special white cane episode of Talking Vision. Going Again is production of Vision Australia Radio, and we'd like to give many thanks to all people involved with putting the program together. And remember, we love your feedback and your comments, so do keep them coming. You can contact us by emailing Talking vision at Vision Australia dot org. That's talking vision. Vision Australia dot org. Until next week it's goodbye for now.

You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us any time during business hours on one 300 847466. That's one 300 847466 or by visiting Vision Australia dot org that's Vision Australia portal.

You can contact Vision Australia by phoning us any time during business hours on one 300 847466. That's one 300 847466 or by visiting Vision Australia dot org that's Vision Australia portal.