Person

Principles

Problems

Perspicacity

David’s breakfast walk to Mylk Bar turned into the most talked-about blog post he has written, and Steve has a theory about why it hit small business owners so hard: our effort runs 24 hours a day and rarely earns a “thanks for doing that.”

Robert Cialdini explains why a McDonald’s counter worker saying “the McFlurry is our most popular” lifted dessert sales by 45%. Our hosts ask what that means for a pizza shop with two stores and two very different favourites.

Meta wants a monthly fee to help you after you’ve been hacked, and that’s before it limits how many links your business page can share. Steve and David suggest a megaphone is a fine tool and a terrible home.

Finally, the 1949 Camel campaign shows social proof working for the wrong team, and David reckons it would still work today if the ban were lifted.

Get ready to take notes.

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

01:45 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
A Cane, a Dog Water Bowl and a Thank You at the Crossing

Steve opens by thanking David for making an effort, because one of David’s recent blog posts drew a much bigger reaction than usual. It starts on a walk to breakfast at Mylk Bar. David steers around the furniture at Cibo Espresso, taps the dog water bowl with his cane without spilling it (“always a win”), listens to both traffic signals and lines up at the ramp. An elderly gentleman behind him says he doesn’t know how David does it. David says it’s worth the effort. The gentleman says his legs and hearing aren’t what they were, and he still can’t work it out. David’s reply: “Same as you. I keep making an effort.” Then the lights change, and David hears how hard each of the man’s steps is.

David’s takeaway is that it’s lovely to have your effort recognised and just as lovely to recognise someone else’s, with no expectation of anything more. Steve then brings it home to small business. Anyone who owns or carries responsibility in a small business puts in effort around the clock, and most of it goes unnoticed. Steve wonders how thirsty our fields must be for a little rain of acknowledgement, and David adds that it takes only a “wow, thanks for doing that.” Nobody is asking for perfection. Steve shares his own habit of thanking ambulance officers, the café that reopened during COVID, and the chiropractor who fixed his arm after a long drive to Port Lincoln.

So what if nobody thanks you? David says you can still pause and notice that you did a task well rather than doing the bare minimum, even if it’s only rinsing the soap off the dishes. You will be the one picking up that glass tomorrow.

09:15 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
“The McFlurry Is Our Most Popular” and Why That Works

Steve builds up to Robert Cialdini with a very personal question about McDonald’s. David confesses to a weakness for thick shakes and a long search for one as good as his 10-year-old memory. Then to the research. In Cialdini’s telling, captured on the Every Thing They Don’t Tell You Podcast, half the customers at a McDonald’s counter were asked if they wanted a dessert. The other half heard the same question followed by “the McFlurry is our most popular.” Dessert sales rose 45%, and almost all of them were McFlurries. That’s social proof: evidence that plenty of people like you have already chosen.

The hosts connect it to the Paradox of Choice. When there are too many options we often pick nothing, so naming the popular choice turns a big decision into a small one. David sees it in his legal marketing work in America, where linking a campaign to what a significant group of attorneys have already done always goes well. Both admit they forget to do this for themselves, like the chef who goes home and eats baked beans on toast. Steve is thinking about his client Raza, whose two Pedro’s Pizza stores have different bestsellers: meat lovers in Craigmore, chicken and avocado in Somerton Park. A staff member saying “this is the one most people choose here” could make the decision easier for a customer standing at the counter.

The rule is to shine a light on where others have gathered, and to keep it true. David points out that someone will always say “prove it,” so you’d better be able to.

18:15 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
Meta One and the Two-Link Toll Booth

Steve and David turn to a company they’ve little affection for. Some Facebook business pages, The Adelaide Show among them, are now limited to two posts a month containing an external link. A listener, Belle Baker, shared a post from Liz Nable (I think we were saying Liz Noble in the recording, sorry Liz) in Sydney about Meta One, a paid subscription launched in Australia. Liz’s rundown of the tiers, drawn from a Smart Company article, runs from about $23 a month for a verification badge and more AI support, to $77 for a live call with a human, up to $769 for a dedicated case manager. Meta One only works for accounts already active and in good standing, so the businesses locked out and needing help most can’t buy their way back in.

Steve shares a workaround for the link limit: post the link in a comment from your personal account rather than the business page. He also suggests borrowing from Instagram, where “link in bio” points to a landing page you control. David wonders how this escapes the ACCC’s attention, and Steve suspects the relationships between big tech and government make it murky. The advice they have given since the year dot is to own your own home: a website on a domain name you control, with social media as the megaphone. Steve also reads a passage from his Oscar Wilde birthday blog post (Oscar would be 172), in which Oscar has some choice words for Meta’s gatekeeping.

30:15 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
More Doctors Smoke Camels, or Social Proof Goes Evil

In 1949, Camel ran a TV ad built on a doctors’ survey: more doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette. Steve notes the ad invites you to try them for 30 days like a new medicine. David points out that today the social proof sits on the other side of the equation, and we look back at that ad as a bizarre moment in history.

The hosts then unpack why it may have worked. David explains that many doctors of that generation had come through the Depression and the war, and smoking was a normal way to cope with stress. Steve adds that it also worked as an appetite suppressant, an early Ozempic. Would the ad work today? It would be banned, so the question needs a hypothetical. Steve wonders whether a ban-free world would also attract the person who does something to spite the establishment. David says teenage vaping shows social proof has immense power, even when the group is small and breaking the law. Steve links it to Angela Duckworth’s book Situated from the last episode: the people around us shape what we do.

David’s verdict is that social proof works at such a deep psychological level that it would have a chance even for a dangerous product. His reminder for small business owners is to never discount its power over you, and never discount its value to you.

David&rsquo;s breakfast walk to Mylk Bar turned into the most talked-about blog post he has written, and Steve has a theory about why it hit small business owners so hard: our effort runs 24 hours a day and rarely earns a &ldquo;thanks for doing that.&rdquo;
Robert Cialdini explains why a McDonald&rsquo;s counter worker saying &ldquo;the McFlurry is our most popular&rdquo; lifted dessert sales by 45%. Our hosts ask what that means for a pizza shop with two stores and two very different favourites.
Meta wants a monthly fee to help you after you&rsquo;ve been hacked, and that&rsquo;s before it limits how many links your business page can share. Steve and David suggest a megaphone is a fine tool and a terrible home.
Finally, the 1949 Camel campaign shows social proof working for the wrong team, and David reckons it would still work today if the ban were lifted.
Get ready to take notes.
Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes
01:45 Person&nbsp;This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal. A Cane, a Dog Water Bowl and a Thank You at the Crossing
Steve opens by thanking David for making an effort, because one of David&rsquo;s recent blog posts drew a much bigger reaction than usual. It starts on a walk to breakfast at Mylk Bar. David steers around the furniture at Cibo Espresso, taps the dog water bowl with his cane without spilling it (&ldquo;always a win&rdquo;), listens to both traffic signals and lines up at the ramp. An elderly gentleman behind him says he doesn&rsquo;t know how David does it. David says it&rsquo;s worth the effort. The gentleman says his legs and hearing aren&rsquo;t what they were, and he still can&rsquo;t work it out. David&rsquo;s reply: &ldquo;Same as you. I keep making an effort.&rdquo; Then the lights change, and David hears how hard each of the man&rsquo;s steps is.
David&rsquo;s takeaway is that it&rsquo;s lovely to have your effort recognised and just as lovely to recognise someone else&rsquo;s, with no expectation of anything more. Steve then brings it home to small business. Anyone who owns or carries responsibility in a small business puts in effort around the clock, and most of it goes unnoticed. Steve wonders how thirsty our fields must be for a little rain of acknowledgement, and David adds that it takes only a &ldquo;wow, thanks for doing that.&rdquo; Nobody is asking for perfection. Steve shares his own habit of thanking ambulance officers, the caf&eacute; that reopened during COVID, and the chiropractor who fixed his arm after a long drive to Port Lincoln.
So what if nobody thanks you? David says you can still pause and notice that you did a task well rather than doing the bare minimum, even if it&rsquo;s only rinsing the soap off the dishes. You will be the one picking up that glass tomorrow.
09:15 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today. &ldquo;The McFlurry Is Our Most Popular&rdquo; and Why That Works
Steve builds up to Robert Cialdini with a very personal question about McDonald&rsquo;s. David confesses to a weakness for thick shakes and a long search for one as good as his 10-year-old memory. Then to the research. In Cialdini&rsquo;s telling, <a href="https://etdty.com/">captured on the Every Thing They Don&rsquo;t Tell You Podcast</a>, half the customers at a McDonald&rsquo;s counter were asked if they wanted a dessert. The other half heard the same question followed by &ldquo;the McFlurry is our most popular.&rdquo; Dessert sales rose 45%, and almost all of them were McFlurries. That&rsquo;s social proof: evidence that plenty of people like you have already chosen.
The hosts connect it to the Paradox of Choice. When there are too many options we often pick nothing, so naming the popular choice turns a big decision into a small one. David sees it in his legal marketing work in America, where linking a campaign to what a significant group of attorneys have already done always goes well. Both admit they forget to do this for themselves, like the chef who goes home and eats baked beans on toast. Steve is thinking about his client Raza, whose two Pedro&rsquo;s Pizza stores have different bestsellers: meat lovers in Craigmore, chicken and avocado in Somerton Park. A staff member saying &ldquo;this is the one most people choose here&rdquo; could make the decision easier for a customer standing at the counter.
The rule is to shine a light on where others have gathered, and to keep it true. David points out that someone will always say &ldquo;prove it,&rdquo; so you&rsquo;d better be able to.
18:15 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners. Meta One and the Two-Link Toll Booth
Steve and David turn to a company they&rsquo;ve little affection for. Some Facebook business pages, The Adelaide Show among them, are now limited to two posts a month containing an external link. A listener, Belle Baker, shared a post from <a href="https://www.liznable.com/">Liz Nable</a> (I think we were saying Liz Noble in the recording, sorry Liz) in Sydney about Meta One, a paid subscription launched in Australia. Liz&rsquo;s rundown of the tiers, drawn from a Smart Company article, runs from about $23 a month for a verification badge and more AI support, to $77 for a live call with a human, up to $769 for a dedicated case manager. Meta One only works for accounts already active and in good standing, so the businesses locked out and needing help most can&rsquo;t buy their way back in.
Steve shares a workaround for the link limit: post the link in a comment from your personal account rather than the business page. He also suggests borrowing from Instagram, where &ldquo;link in bio&rdquo; points to a landing page you control. David wonders how this escapes the ACCC&rsquo;s attention, and Steve suspects the relationships between big tech and government make it murky. The advice they have given since the year dot is to own your own home: a website on a domain name you control, with social media as the megaphone. Steve also reads a passage from his Oscar Wilde birthday blog post (Oscar would be 172), in which Oscar has some choice words for Meta&rsquo;s gatekeeping.
30:15 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past. More Doctors Smoke Camels, or Social Proof Goes Evil
In 1949, Camel ran a TV ad built on a doctors&rsquo; survey: more doctors smoke Camels than any other cigarette. Steve notes the ad invites you to try them for 30 days like a new medicine. David points out that today the social proof sits on the other side of the equation, and we look back at that ad as a bizarre moment in history.
The hosts then unpack why it may have worked. David explains that many doctors of that generation had come through the Depression and the war, and smoking was a normal way to cope with stress. Steve adds that it also worked as an appetite suppressant, an early Ozempic. Would the ad work today? It would be banned, so the question needs a hypothetical. Steve wonders whether a ban-free world would also attract the person who does something to spite the establishment. David says teenage vaping shows social proof has immense power, even when the group is small and breaking the law. Steve links it to Angela Duckworth&rsquo;s book Situated from the last episode: the people around us shape what we do.
David&rsquo;s verdict is that social proof works at such a deep psychological level that it would have a chance even for a dangerous product. His reminder for small business owners is to never discount its power over you, and never discount its value to you.

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with artwork by Casey Cumming. Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity. Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business. We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with artwork by Casey Cumming. Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity. Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business. We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

The only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about...

Talking About Marketing

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.

Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde
Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde
Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde
Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde

Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.

We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

<a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/podcast/">Talking About Marketing</a> is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.
Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
<ol>
<li>Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde</li>
</ol>
Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.
We welcome your comments and feedback via <a href="mailto:podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com">podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com</a>

From a thank you at a pedestrian crossing to a dessert upsell at the McDonald’s counter, we find that people copy what others value, so it pays to say it out loud when someone makes an effort.