Person

Principles

Problems

Perspicacity

Dr Angela Duckworth spent years telling us to stick at it. Now she says the situation you stick at it in matters more than your willpower, and if your good hires keep leaving after six months, the problem probably isn’t them.

Michael Blastland explains why the best-laid plans can fail on one small detail, and David reaches for survivorship bias and the OODA loop to keep small business owners moving anyway.

The AI doom headlines get a calm second look, with David following the money and Steve calling Claude Code an intern who has read a lot but never done anything.

Samuel Pepys, a wine-loving politician and a bee-themed Banrock Station ad show how a label creates value, and why status signalling and virtue signalling are different things.

Get ready to take notes.

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

01:30 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
Change the Situation Before You Blame the Person

Steve opens with Dr Angela Duckworth, whose 2016 book Gritgave us “stick at it, sunshine and you’ll get there.” Her new book is, Situated. David notes she was explaining her own life at the time, when writing Grit. Later she saw that passion and persistence work best when the situation around them is supportive. Jerry Seinfeld’s “nighttime Jerry” and “morning Jerry” show why willpower alone bends to circumstance. The guy who looks like the party animal is actually one of the most organised people you could imagine.

Duckworth’s box theory runs from situation to thoughts to response. Self-help books tell us to change our thoughts, but if the same negative situation keeps dragging you back, that has limited effect. Steve recalls an organisation that held a big “we’re doing things differently” meeting every couple of years. It never lasted a week and left everyone cynical. David lists the four parts of a situation you can change: physical space, peer relationships, mentor relationships and culture. You change culture by changing the other three.

The small business test is a good one. If talented people you interviewed and hired keep leaving after six months, ask what’s wrong with the situation. Tired, frustrated staff and cynical comments overheard at the end of the day are the signs. David’s first step is to stop blaming yourself or others, find one tangible thing to change, then look for the next.

15:00 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
The Hidden Half and the Photocopier That Sank a Water Project

Steve brings Michael Blastland, author of The Hidden Half, from an EconTalk conversation with Russ Roberts. We spend our lives finding regularities, like trusting our bike brakes. A lot of life sits where those regularities break down. Blastland’s example is a water supply project in the Indian subcontinent, reported to have had a very low sign-up rate because nobody could photocopy the application form. Esther Duflo’s point is that one weak link in implementation can mean total failure.

David adds the fundamental attribution error: our successes are skill, and other people’s are luck. He also names survivorship bias. We hear from the entrepreneurs who took the risk and won, and never from those who took it and disappeared. Look at the 99 failures and you find more than one way to succeed. You can spread your bets, with some low-risk, reliable earners and a few small long shots.

Steve calls it a dose of stoicism, shock absorbers for your head, heart and business. David’s OODA loop (observe, orient, decide, act) keeps you doing small things in a big world. Be prudent, but keep moving, because sitting still too long simply hands the opportunity to someone else.

26:45 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
How Do You Solve a Problem Like AI?

Steve borrows from The Sound of Music and swaps Maria for AI. Both are useful, occasionally alarming and hard to pin down. David has a calm view on the recent wave of AI horror stories. In the cases he’s read about, these were models in training with low alignment and few controls, deliberately tested with minimal restrictions. His real line in the sand is letting AIs run their own recursive self-improvement. Steve says he now feels more anxious than when the segment began.

David’s view on the commercial side is to follow the money. The data centre builders are making it, and he suggests scary headlines suit companies that need us to buy protection. He cites Jensen Huang’s remark that there’s no problem, just a lack of code: build in the alignment and don’t test with out-of-control AIs.

Steve’s own experiment with Claude Code on a WordPress site was so dumb at times he could have done the job faster himself, like having an intern who has read a lot but never done anything. David’s advice for small business is to use the tools that are useful and pay for what adds value. If enough of us decline to pay for a peak product we don’t need, the market gets the message.

33:00 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
A Wine Label, a Wetland and a Swarm of Bees

Steve takes us to 1663, where Samuel Pepys drank a wine he called “Ho Brian” at the Royal Oak Tavern in London. Per The Rest Is History, this was Haut-Brion, one of the first Bordeaux wines sold under the name of its own estate. Its producer, Arnaud de Pontac, was a politician with a genius for marketing. His son opened Pontac’s Head in London, and the wine sold for seven shillings against the usual two. David sums it up as novelty leading to status leading to preference.

Then to Banrock Station, from a Riverland region long known for volume rather than prestige. The 2010 “save our swarm” ad was made in Britain to raise money for Devon’s bees. Both hosts think it could work again in Australia, with varroa mite now affecting our own bees. David’s condition is knowing your audience and what they can afford. The extra pound or two suits the everyday wine buyer, and Steve doubts a cause would suit Penfolds Grange, where the buyer wants a memento. Status signalling and virtue signalling are different things.

Dr Angela Duckworth spent years telling us to stick at it. Now she says the situation you stick at it in matters more than your willpower, and if your good hires keep leaving after six months, the problem probably isn&rsquo;t them.
Michael Blastland explains why the best-laid plans can fail on one small detail, and David reaches for survivorship bias and the OODA loop to keep small business owners moving anyway.
The AI doom headlines get a calm second look, with David following the money and Steve calling Claude Code an intern who has read a lot but never done anything.
Samuel Pepys, a wine-loving politician and a bee-themed Banrock Station ad show how a label creates value, and why status signalling and virtue signalling are different things.
Get ready to take notes.
Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes
01:30 Person&nbsp;This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal. Change the Situation Before You Blame the Person
Steve opens with Dr Angela Duckworth, whose 2016 book <a href="https://link.amazon/B0cMuUbzy">Grit</a> gave us &ldquo;stick at it, sunshine and you&rsquo;ll get there.&rdquo; Her new book is, <a href="https://link.amazon/B08qbfiBk">Situated</a>. David notes she was explaining her own life at the time, when writing Grit. Later she saw that passion and persistence work best when the situation around them is supportive. Jerry Seinfeld&rsquo;s &ldquo;nighttime Jerry&rdquo; and &ldquo;morning Jerry&rdquo; show why willpower alone bends to circumstance. The guy who looks like the party animal is actually one of the most organised people you could imagine.
Duckworth&rsquo;s box theory runs from situation to thoughts to response. Self-help books tell us to change our thoughts, but if the same negative situation keeps dragging you back, that has limited effect. Steve recalls an organisation that held a big &ldquo;we&rsquo;re doing things differently&rdquo; meeting every couple of years. It never lasted a week and left everyone cynical. David lists the four parts of a situation you can change: physical space, peer relationships, mentor relationships and culture. You change culture by changing the other three.
The small business test is a good one. If talented people you interviewed and hired keep leaving after six months, ask what&rsquo;s wrong with the situation. Tired, frustrated staff and cynical comments overheard at the end of the day are the signs. David&rsquo;s first step is to stop blaming yourself or others, find one tangible thing to change, then look for the next.
15:00 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today. The Hidden Half and the Photocopier That Sank a Water Project
Steve brings Michael Blastland, author of The Hidden Half, from an <a href="https://www.econtalk.org/michael-blastland-on-the-hidden-half">EconTalk conversation with Russ Roberts</a>. We spend our lives finding regularities, like trusting our bike brakes. A lot of life sits where those regularities break down. Blastland&rsquo;s example is a water supply project in the Indian subcontinent, reported to have had a very low sign-up rate because nobody could photocopy the application form. Esther Duflo&rsquo;s point is that one weak link in implementation can mean total failure.
David adds the fundamental attribution error: our successes are skill, and other people&rsquo;s are luck. He also names survivorship bias. We hear from the entrepreneurs who took the risk and won, and never from those who took it and disappeared. Look at the 99 failures and you find more than one way to succeed. You can spread your bets, with some low-risk, reliable earners and a few small long shots.
Steve calls it a dose of stoicism, shock absorbers for your head, heart and business. David&rsquo;s OODA loop (observe, orient, decide, act) keeps you doing small things in a big world. Be prudent, but keep moving, because sitting still too long simply hands the opportunity to someone else.
26:45 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners. How Do You Solve a Problem Like AI?
Steve borrows from The Sound of Music and swaps Maria for AI. Both are useful, occasionally alarming and hard to pin down. David has a calm view on the recent wave of AI horror stories. In the cases he&rsquo;s read about, these were models in training with low alignment and few controls, deliberately tested with minimal restrictions. His real line in the sand is letting AIs run their own recursive self-improvement. Steve says he now feels more anxious than when the segment began.
David&rsquo;s view on the commercial side is to follow the money. The data centre builders are making it, and he suggests scary headlines suit companies that need us to buy protection. He cites Jensen Huang&rsquo;s remark that there&rsquo;s no problem, just a lack of code: build in the alignment and don&rsquo;t test with out-of-control AIs.
Steve&rsquo;s own experiment with Claude Code on a WordPress site was so dumb at times he could have done the job faster himself, like having an intern who has read a lot but never done anything. David&rsquo;s advice for small business is to use the tools that are useful and pay for what adds value. If enough of us decline to pay for a peak product we don&rsquo;t need, the market gets the message.
33:00 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past. A Wine Label, a Wetland and a Swarm of Bees
Steve takes us to 1663, where Samuel Pepys drank a wine he called &ldquo;Ho Brian&rdquo; at the Royal Oak Tavern in London. Per <a href="https://therestishistory.com/episodes/wine-and-the-birth-of-civilisation">The Rest Is History</a>, this was Haut-Brion, one of the first Bordeaux wines sold under the name of its own estate. Its producer, Arnaud de Pontac, was a politician with a genius for marketing. His son opened Pontac&rsquo;s Head in London, and the wine sold for seven shillings against the usual two. David sums it up as novelty leading to status leading to preference.
Then to <a href="https://banrockstation.com.au/">Banrock Station</a>, from a Riverland region long known for volume rather than prestige. The 2010 &ldquo;save our swarm&rdquo; ad was made in Britain to raise money for Devon&rsquo;s bees. Both hosts think it could work again in Australia, with varroa mite now affecting our own bees. David&rsquo;s condition is knowing your audience and what they can afford. The extra pound or two suits the everyday wine buyer, and Steve doubts a cause would suit Penfolds Grange, where the buyer wants a memento. Status signalling and virtue signalling are different things.

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with artwork by Casey Cumming. Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity. Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business. We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with artwork by Casey Cumming. Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity. Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business. We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

The only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about...

Talking About Marketing

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.

Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde
Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde
Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde
Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde

Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.

We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

<a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/podcast/">Talking About Marketing</a> is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.
Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
<ol>
<li>Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde</li>
</ol>
Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.
We welcome your comments and feedback via <a href="mailto:podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com">podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com</a>

Angela Duckworth revises grit, a photocopier sinks a water project, and 17th century London pays seven shillings for a label, all pointing to the same lesson: plan for the half of success you can’t see.