Person

Principles

Problems

Perspicacity

Rick Caruso demonstrates why planning for disaster means you might be the only building left standing when LA’s wildfires rage through – and why his private firefighter strategy offers lessons for us all.

David Lynch’s legacy reminds us that creating characters people genuinely care about is the secret ingredient to making audiences lean in and stay engaged – even when the narrative deliberately avoids closure.

Meta’s inbox impersonators are getting craftier with their urgent demands for “verification,” proving that digital scammers are banking on our panic response.

A small child tapping alongside a street performer in Galway asks the question we all need to consider: why aren’t more of us willing to step out of our comfort zones and join the dance?

Get ready to take notes.

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

01:00 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
Rick Caruso’s Private Firefighting Playbook

Rick Caruso, former LA Department for Water and Power commissioner, real estate mogul and philanthropist, shares a remarkable tale of foresight that left his shopping centre standing while LA burned. Steve encountered Rick’s discussion in In The Politics of Catastrophe – Waking Up Podcast #399.

Drawing on lessons from previous Montecito disasters, Caruso and his team built a shopping centre with non-combustible materials, minimal venting, and a private firefighting strategy that didn’t deplete municipal resources.

Steve and David unpack this approach through the lens of strategic planning, noting how the “pre-mortem” exercise (imagining future failure and working backward) overlaps with Caruso’s meticulous planning. They explore the growing necessity of personal responsibility in an era where Donald Trump and Elon Musk seemingly mock standards, asking whether we should all be holding ourselves to higher account in both business and personal life.

As David notes, we’re entering a period where “if you don’t look after yourself, no one else is going to” – pointing to rising insurance costs, healthcare expenses, and other signs that systems we once relied on are faltering. Self-sufficiency, from solar panels to physical fitness, might be the new normal in weathering life’s inevitable storms.

13:30 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
David Lynch’s Guide to Character Connection

Following the death of filmmaker David Lynch in January 2025, Steve and David reflect on the appointment-viewing phenomenon that was Twin Peaks and what made Lynch’s storytelling so powerful. Steve picked up on the news after hearing Tamler Summer from the Very Bad Wizards podcast, eulogise the famous director.

They explore Lynch’s deliberate avoidance of narrative closure – “as soon as you get closure, it’s just an excuse to forget you saw the damn thing” – and what this means for business storytelling.

The hosts connect Lynch’s character-building prowess to Donald Miller’s StoryBrand framework, noting that Lynch understood what takes many marketers years to learn: audiences connect with vulnerable characters who keep trying despite uncertainty. The key insight? In your marketing, position your customer as the hero and your business as the guide – not the other way around.

As David notes, “Lynch always left his central characters with some degree of vulnerability. We came to really care about the fact they were vulnerable, and it could go wrong, and they didn’t have all the answers, but they kept on trying.” They conclude that while storytelling in marketing isn’t new, Lynch reached a depth that many storytellers – and marketers – are still trying to catch up to.

21:45 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
Meta Verification Scams Get Craftier

A plague of convincing scam messages is hitting Facebook business pages and Instagram accounts, purporting to be from Meta with urgent notices of policy violations. These messages, typically from accounts with blue icons featuring three people, warn of imminent account suspension or deactivation unless “verification” is completed within unreasonably short timeframes.

Steve shares examples of these messages, pointing out the telltale signs they’re fake: urgency tactics (verify within 4 hours), suspicious web addresses that don’t end in meta.com, and exaggerated threats of account deletion. His preferred response to these scammers? “Thank you so much. Can you please remove my page? It’s way too much work” – a bit of fun at their expense.

The hosts offer practical advice: never click suspicious links, check that any Meta-related links actually end in meta.com, and when in doubt, contact trusted sources (like Talked About Marketing for their clients) to verify legitimacy.

25:15 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
Why Aren’t More Adults Dancing?

A viral video of Irish tap dancer Emma O’Sullivan performing in Galway captures a magical moment when a toddler breaks from the crowd to join in, mimicking the dancer’s movements with pure joy. What fascinates Steve is the child’s puzzled expression as she looks around, seemingly wondering why none of the adults are joining in the fun.

This prompts the hosts to reflect on the barriers that keep adults from participating fully in interactive experiences. David notes, “We all live in a world where we’re not allowed to do fun things in an unrestricted way very much of the time. Instead, we need to do the socially acceptable thing and fit in so we don’t attract negative attention.”

They discuss the importance of “priming the pump” in audience participation – how Glyn Nicholas’s Eurovision homage show, Club Eurovision, uses planted participants to model behavior, giving others permission to join in. As David observes, “If you want people to make noise, show them… Once people know it’s okay, then you give them that wonderful release of being part of a happy crowd doing things.”

The segment closes with the reflection that sporting events might be the last realm where participatory behavior remains naturally normalised – a sobering thought for marketers hoping to create interactive experiences.

Rick Caruso demonstrates why planning for disaster means you might be the only building left standing when LA&rsquo;s wildfires rage through &ndash; and why his private firefighter strategy offers lessons for us all.
David Lynch&rsquo;s legacy reminds us that creating characters people genuinely care about is the secret ingredient to making audiences lean in and stay engaged &ndash; even when the narrative deliberately avoids closure.
Meta&rsquo;s inbox impersonators are getting craftier with their urgent demands for &ldquo;verification,&rdquo; proving that digital scammers are banking on our panic response.
A small child tapping alongside a street performer in Galway asks the question we all need to consider: why aren&rsquo;t more of us willing to step out of our comfort zones and join the dance?
Get ready to take notes.
Talking About Marketing&nbsp;podcast episode notes with timecodes
01:00 Person&nbsp;This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal. Rick Caruso&rsquo;s Private Firefighting Playbook
Rick Caruso, former LA Department for Water and Power commissioner, real estate mogul and philanthropist, shares a remarkable tale of foresight that left his shopping centre standing while LA burned. Steve encountered Rick&rsquo;s discussion in In&nbsp;<a href="https://wakingup.libsyn.com/399-the-politics-of-catastrophe">The Politics of Catastrophe &ndash; Waking Up Podcast #399</a>.
Drawing on lessons from previous Montecito disasters, Caruso and his team built a shopping centre with non-combustible materials, minimal venting, and a private firefighting strategy that didn&rsquo;t deplete municipal resources.
Steve and David unpack this approach through the lens of strategic planning, noting how the &ldquo;pre-mortem&rdquo; exercise (imagining future failure and working backward) overlaps with Caruso&rsquo;s meticulous planning. They explore the growing necessity of personal responsibility in an era where Donald Trump and Elon Musk seemingly mock standards, asking whether we should all be holding ourselves to higher account in both business and personal life.
As David notes, we&rsquo;re entering a period where &ldquo;if you don&rsquo;t look after yourself, no one else is going to&rdquo; &ndash; pointing to rising insurance costs, healthcare expenses, and other signs that systems we once relied on are faltering. Self-sufficiency, from solar panels to physical fitness, might be the new normal in weathering life&rsquo;s inevitable storms.
13:30 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today. David Lynch&rsquo;s Guide to Character Connection
Following the death of filmmaker David Lynch in January 2025, Steve and David reflect on the appointment-viewing phenomenon that was Twin Peaks and what made Lynch&rsquo;s storytelling so powerful. Steve picked up on the news after hearing&nbsp;<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-301-believing-is-seeing/id557975157?i=1000686427340">Tamler Summer from the Very Bad Wizards podcast</a>, eulogise the famous director.
They explore Lynch&rsquo;s deliberate avoidance of narrative closure &ndash; &ldquo;as soon as you get closure, it&rsquo;s just an excuse to forget you saw the damn thing&rdquo; &ndash; and what this means for business storytelling.
The hosts connect Lynch&rsquo;s character-building prowess to Donald Miller&rsquo;s StoryBrand framework, noting that Lynch understood what takes many marketers years to learn: audiences connect with vulnerable characters who keep trying despite uncertainty. The key insight? In your marketing, position your customer as the hero and your business as the guide &ndash; not the other way around.
As David notes, &ldquo;Lynch always left his central characters with some degree of vulnerability. We came to really care about the fact they were vulnerable, and it could go wrong, and they didn&rsquo;t have all the answers, but they kept on trying.&rdquo; They conclude that while storytelling in marketing isn&rsquo;t new, Lynch reached a depth that many storytellers &ndash; and marketers &ndash; are still trying to catch up to.
21:45 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners. Meta Verification Scams Get Craftier
A plague of convincing scam messages is hitting Facebook business pages and Instagram accounts, purporting to be from Meta with urgent notices of policy violations. These messages, typically from accounts with blue icons featuring three people, warn of imminent account suspension or deactivation unless &ldquo;verification&rdquo; is completed within unreasonably short timeframes.
Steve shares examples of these messages, pointing out the telltale signs they&rsquo;re fake: urgency tactics (verify within 4 hours), suspicious web addresses that don&rsquo;t end in meta.com, and exaggerated threats of account deletion. His preferred response to these scammers? &ldquo;Thank you so much. Can you please remove my page? It&rsquo;s way too much work&rdquo; &ndash; a bit of fun at their expense.
The hosts offer practical advice: never click suspicious links, check that any Meta-related links actually end in meta.com, and when in doubt, contact trusted sources (like Talked About Marketing for their clients) to verify legitimacy.
25:15 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past. Why Aren&rsquo;t More Adults Dancing?
A viral video of Irish tap dancer Emma O&rsquo;Sullivan performing in Galway captures a magical moment when a toddler breaks from the crowd to join in, mimicking the dancer&rsquo;s movements with pure joy. What fascinates Steve is the child&rsquo;s puzzled expression as she looks around, seemingly wondering why none of the adults are joining in the fun.
This prompts the hosts to reflect on the barriers that keep adults from participating fully in interactive experiences. David notes, &ldquo;We all live in a world where we&rsquo;re not allowed to do fun things in an unrestricted way very much of the time. Instead, we need to do the socially acceptable thing and fit in so we don&rsquo;t attract negative attention.&rdquo;
They discuss the importance of &ldquo;priming the pump&rdquo; in audience participation &ndash; how Glyn Nicholas&rsquo;s Eurovision homage show, Club Eurovision, uses planted participants to model behavior, giving others permission to join in. As David observes, &ldquo;If you want people to make noise, show them&hellip; Once people know it&rsquo;s okay, then you give them that wonderful release of being part of a happy crowd doing things.&rdquo;
The segment closes with the reflection that sporting events might be the last realm where participatory behavior remains naturally normalised &ndash; a sobering thought for marketers hoping to create interactive experiences.

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with artwork by Casey Cumming. Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity. Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business. We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with artwork by Casey Cumming. Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity. Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business. We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

The only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about...

Talking About Marketing

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.

Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde
Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde
Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde
Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde

Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.

We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

<a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/podcast/">Talking About Marketing</a> is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.
Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
<ol>
<li>Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde</li>
</ol>
Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.
We welcome your comments and feedback via <a href="mailto:podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com">podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com</a>

From Rick Caruso’s masterclass in protective foresight to David Lynch’s brilliance in crafting characters we care about, we explore why taking responsibility for what matters might just be the new normal in a world where systems increasingly shrug at our problems.

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