Person

Principles

Problems

Perspicacity

Willie Nelson shows us why getting to the point isn't just good songwriting – it's good business sense, especially when your audience's attention span is shorter than a country music chorus.

John Cleese reveals why creativity loves company (as long as it's the right company) and why the Japanese might be onto something with their "juniors first" approach to meetings.

LinkedIn's quiet data collection for AI training has us wondering if we should be getting premium memberships in exchange for our digital breadcrumbs.

Steve conducts a cheeky experiment with fake business awards that has everyone (except one sharp-eyed Rotarian) fooled.

Get ready to take notes.

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

01:30 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
Willie Nelson's Guide to Not Wearing Out Your Welcome

Drawing from his new book Energy Follows Thought: The Stories Behind My Songs, Willie Nelson shares why sometimes eight lines are better than eighty. His approach to songwriting – get the story right first, then worry about the melody – offers a fresh perspective on business communication. As Steve and David unpack Willie's philosophy, they reveal why "less is more" isn't just a cliché when you're fighting for attention in a world of information overload.

The hosts explore how this meshes with their own experiences in business communication, noting that while verbose marketers might love the sound of their own voice, their audiences rarely share the enthusiasm.

07:15 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
John Cleese and the Art of Group Think (The Good Kind)

When John Cleese talks creativity, our hosts lean in – especially when he outlines why the best ideas often come from collaboration, provided you're not sharing the room with idea-killers. David and Steve explore how this mirrors their own experiences in marketing mentorship, highlighting the value of creating spaces where people feel safe to contribute without fear of judgment.

The discussion takes an intriguing turn through Japanese business culture, where letting junior staff speak first isn't just polite – it's strategic. As our hosts note, this approach might just be the antidote to the "but we've always done it this way" syndrome that plagues many businesses.

15:15 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
LinkedIn's Data Harvest (Or: Why Your Professional Profile Is Training Someone Else's AI)

In a revelation that had both hosts raising their eyebrows, we learn about LinkedIn's practice of using member data to train AI models. Steve and David dig into the implications, noting how European privacy laws forced a different approach across the pond while the rest of us clicked "agree" without reading the fine print.

The discussion evolves into a broader examination of digital privacy and corporate transparency, with David suggesting that if companies want to use our data, maybe they should at least buy us dinner first (or at least a Premium membership).

Here are the LinkedIn Scraping Opt Out Instructions, as shared by PerplexityAI:

To opt out of LinkedIn using your data for AI training, follow these steps:
Access your LinkedIn settings:

On desktop: Click on your profile picture and select "Settings & Privacy"
On mobile: Tap your profile picture and then tap "Settings" in the bottom-left corner
Navigate to the "Data Privacy" section
Look for "Data for Generative AI improvement"
Toggle off the option "Use my data for training content creation AI models" 13

It's important to note a few key points:
This setting is switched on by default for users outside the European Economic Area (EEA) and Switzerland1
Opting out will prevent LinkedIn and its affiliates from using your personal data or content for future AI model training1
However, opting out does not affect AI training that has already taken place using your data 13

For a more comprehensive opt-out, LinkedIn also provides a separate data processing objection form. However, they note that this also won't affect training that has already occurred1.Privacy advocates argue that this opt-out model is inadequate for protecting user rights, suggesting that companies should instead use an opt-in model for consent to use personal data for AI training.Remember, if you're in the EU, EEA, or Switzerland, LinkedIn is not currently using your data to train content-generating AI models due to stricter privacy regulations in these regions. 23

20:30 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
The Great Awards Game

From the nostalgic world of "As Seen on TV" badges to today's proliferation of business awards, Steve and David create a traffic light system for credential credibility. The segment culminates in Steve's mischievous experiment with a completely fabricated award that garnered genuine congratulations – proving that perhaps we've all become a bit too quick to celebrate without verification.

For further reading, Steve has written a blog post on this topic: The Great Awards Swindle: How We All Became Award-Winning Everything.

Willie Nelson shows us why getting to the point isn't just good songwriting – it's good business sense, especially when your audience's attention span is shorter than a country music chorus.
John Cleese reveals why creativity loves company (as long as it's the right company) and why the Japanese might be onto something with their "juniors first" approach to meetings.
LinkedIn's quiet data collection for AI training has us wondering if we should be getting premium memberships in exchange for our digital breadcrumbs.
Steve conducts a cheeky experiment with fake business awards that has everyone (except one sharp-eyed Rotarian) fooled.
Get ready to take notes.
Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes
01:30 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal. Willie Nelson's Guide to Not Wearing Out Your Welcome
Drawing from his new book <a href="https://amzn.to/3UULUCv">Energy Follows Thought: The Stories Behind My Songs</a>, Willie Nelson shares why sometimes eight lines are better than eighty. His approach to songwriting – get the story right first, then worry about the melody – offers a fresh perspective on business communication. As Steve and David unpack Willie's philosophy, they reveal why "less is more" isn't just a cliché when you're fighting for attention in a world of information overload.
The hosts explore how this meshes with their own experiences in business communication, noting that while verbose marketers might love the sound of their own voice, their audiences rarely share the enthusiasm.
07:15 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today. John Cleese and the Art of Group Think (The Good Kind)
When John Cleese talks creativity, our hosts lean in – especially when he outlines why the best ideas often come from collaboration, provided you're not sharing the room with idea-killers. David and Steve explore how this mirrors their own experiences in marketing mentorship, highlighting the value of creating spaces where people feel safe to contribute without fear of judgment.
The discussion takes an intriguing turn through Japanese business culture, where letting junior staff speak first isn't just polite – it's strategic. As our hosts note, this approach might just be the antidote to the "but we've always done it this way" syndrome that plagues many businesses.
15:15 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners. LinkedIn's Data Harvest (Or: Why Your Professional Profile Is Training Someone Else's AI)
In a revelation that had both hosts raising their eyebrows, we learn about LinkedIn's practice of using member data to train AI models. Steve and David dig into the implications, noting how European privacy laws forced a different approach across the pond while the rest of us clicked "agree" without reading the fine print.
The discussion evolves into a broader examination of digital privacy and corporate transparency, with David suggesting that if companies want to use our data, maybe they should at least buy us dinner first (or at least a Premium membership).
Here are the LinkedIn Scraping Opt Out Instructions, as shared by PerplexityAI:
To opt out of LinkedIn using your data for AI training, follow these steps:
<ol>
<li>Access your LinkedIn settings:
<ul>
<li>On desktop: Click on your profile picture and select "Settings &amp; Privacy"</li>
<li>On mobile: Tap your profile picture and then tap "Settings" in the bottom-left corner</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Navigate to the "Data Privacy" section</li>
<li>Look for "Data for Generative AI improvement"</li>
<li>Toggle off the option "Use my data for training content creation AI models" <a href="https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2024/how-to-stop-linkedin-using-your-data-to-train-ai.html">1</a> <a href="https://www.forbes.com.au/news/innovation/linkedin-is-using-your-data-to-train-microsoft-and-its-own-ai-models-heres-how-to-turn-it-off/">3</a></li>
</ol>
It's important to note a few key points:
<ul>
<li>This setting is switched on by default for users outside the European Economic Area (EEA) and Switzerland<a href="https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2024/how-to-stop-linkedin-using-your-data-to-train-ai.html">1</a></li>
<li>Opting out will prevent LinkedIn and its affiliates from using your personal data or content for future AI model training<a href="https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2024/how-to-stop-linkedin-using-your-data-to-train-ai.html">1</a></li>
<li>However, opting out does not affect AI training that has already taken place using your data <a href="https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2024/how-to-stop-linkedin-using-your-data-to-train-ai.html">1</a> <a href="https://www.forbes.com.au/news/innovation/linkedin-is-using-your-data-to-train-microsoft-and-its-own-ai-models-heres-how-to-turn-it-off/">3</a></li>
</ul>
For a more comprehensive opt-out, LinkedIn also provides a separate data processing objection form. However, they note that this also won't affect training that has already occurred<a href="https://ia.acs.org.au/article/2024/how-to-stop-linkedin-using-your-data-to-train-ai.html">1</a>.Privacy advocates argue that this opt-out model is inadequate for protecting user rights, suggesting that companies should instead use an opt-in model for consent to use personal data for AI training.Remember, if you're in the EU, EEA, or Switzerland, LinkedIn is not currently using your data to train content-generating AI models due to stricter privacy regulations in these regions. <a href="https://techcrunch.com/2024/09/18/linkedin-scraped-user-data-for-training-before-updating-its-terms-of-service/">2</a> <a href="https://www.forbes.com.au/news/innovation/linkedin-is-using-your-data-to-train-microsoft-and-its-own-ai-models-heres-how-to-turn-it-off/">3</a>
20:30 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past. The Great Awards Game
From the nostalgic world of "As Seen on TV" badges to today's proliferation of business awards, Steve and David create a traffic light system for credential credibility. The segment culminates in Steve's mischievous experiment with a completely fabricated award that garnered genuine congratulations – proving that perhaps we've all become a bit too quick to celebrate without verification.
For further reading, Steve has written a blog post on this topic: <a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/blog/the-great-awards-swindle-how-we-all-became-award-winning-everything/" data-type="post" data-id="7562">The Great Awards Swindle: How We All Became Award-Winning Everything</a>.

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with artwork by Casey Cumming. Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity. Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business. We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with artwork by Casey Cumming. Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity. Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business. We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

The only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about...

Talking About Marketing

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.

Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde
Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde
Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde
Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde

Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.

We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

<a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/podcast/">Talking About Marketing</a> is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.
Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
<ol>
<li>Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde</li>
</ol>
Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.
We welcome your comments and feedback via <a href="mailto:podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com">podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com</a>

From Willie Nelson's masterclass in brevity to the unsettling world of corporate data harvesting, we explore how sometimes the shortest path to persuasion involves knowing when to stop talking (and when to check those privacy settings).

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