Person

Principles

Problems

Perspicacity

In this episode of Talking About Marketing, Steve Davis and David Olney explore the critical factors shaping small business success in today's challenging landscape.

They begin by discussing the importance of structured, meaningful conversations and how they can drive better customer engagement and business outcomes.

The episode then delves into the fundamentals of effective marketing, emphasising the need for precision in targeting your market and offering solutions that truly resonate.

A light-hearted critique of a poorly executed marketing email offers a stark reminder of the importance of genuine engagement.

Finally, the duo takes a nostalgic look at retro advertising, reflecting on how marketing tactics must evolve to stay relevant.

Get ready to take notes!

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

01:30 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
Structured Conversations for Meaningful Engagement

In this episode's "Person" segment, Steve Davis and David Olney explore the significance of structured conversations in both personal and professional settings. Using a conversation between Jerry Seinfeld and Bill Maher as a springboard, they delve into why structured interactions can be more fulfilling and productive than aimless chatter, particularly in business contexts.

Steve shares a perspective he resonated with from Seinfeld: the idea that working together on something—whether it's an interview, a podcast, or a project—adds value to interactions that casual socialising may lack. This sentiment is echoed in Steve's own approach to podcasting and interviews, where he finds energy and learning in the semi-structured nature of these exchanges. He points out that people often behave differently in structured settings, listening more intently and engaging more deeply because there's a clear purpose to the conversation.

David expands on this by highlighting the comfort and safety that structure brings to conversations. He notes that having a framework not only helps participants understand the flow and expectations but also makes the dialogue more meaningful and less nerve-wracking. This is particularly relevant in a business setting, where customers may approach with disorganised thoughts, seeking clarity. A structured approach allows the service provider to guide the conversation effectively, helping the customer articulate their needs and ensuring the interaction is productive.

The takeaway from this discussion is the value of bringing some level of structure to conversations, especially in business. While casual, unstructured chats have their place, adding a purpose or framework to an interaction can enhance the quality of the dialogue, making it more engaging and beneficial for all parties involved. For business owners and leaders, being mindful of this can improve customer interactions and lead to more successful outcomes.

10:15 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
The Power of Niche Marketing: Inch Wide, Mile Deep

In the "Principles" segment, Steve Davis and David Olney explore the key insights from Allan Dib’s book, Lean Marketing, which has deeply resonated with them, particularly the idea of targeting a specific market niche. They discuss the first principle from the book—selecting your target market—and how honing in on a narrow, yet deep, audience can significantly enhance marketing effectiveness.

Steve and David introduce the concept of an “inch wide and a mile deep” target market, emphasizing that while it might seem limiting to focus on a small, specialized audience, this depth of understanding allows businesses to meet the precise needs of their customers, leading to greater success. They explain that by truly knowing a niche market, businesses can position themselves as the go-to solution for specific problems, which builds confidence and authority in that space.

The discussion then moves to the idea of marketing products as “vitamins” versus “painkillers.” Vitamins are nice-to-have, optional supplements, whereas painkillers address urgent, pressing needs that consumers are willing to pay for immediately. The key takeaway here is that businesses should strive to offer solutions that address their customers' most critical pain points, thus transforming their product or service into an essential need rather than a mere luxury.

Steve and David conclude by stressing the importance of specificity in marketing messages. They illustrate this with examples from their personal experiences, highlighting how targeted, specific messaging can be more compelling and drive immediate action. By understanding and addressing the specific pain points of a niche market, businesses can craft powerful, effective marketing strategies that resonate deeply with their audience.

23:00 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners.
The Perils of Spammy Cold Calling: A Lesson in Genuine Engagement

In the "Problems" segment, Steve Davis and David Olney delve into the frustrations of outdated and ineffective marketing techniques, particularly spammy cold calling and mass emailing. Steve shares an egregious example of a cold email that he received, highlighting how such approaches can be not only ineffective but also damaging to a brand’s reputation.

The email in question exemplifies all that is wrong with brute-force interruption marketing. It starts with a negative tone, assumes the recipient is at fault for not responding, and even attempts to guilt-trip them into engaging. David criticizes the email's structure, noting that any potential value proposition is buried under layers of off-putting language and poor tactics. This type of communication, David argues, not only fails to engage the recipient but also tarnishes the sender's credibility.

Steve and David then take the discussion further by exploring how AI tools like ChatGPT can assess and even rewrite such emails. However, as they note, even AI's improvements often miss the mark, perpetuating the same fundamental flaws seen in traditional marketing tactics. The key takeaway from this segment is the importance of moving away from outdated, impersonal marketing approaches. Instead, businesses should focus on genuine, personalized engagement that respects the recipient's time and attention, ultimately building trust rather than eroding it.

29:00 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past.
The Outdated Appeal of the Stable Table: A Look at Retro Advertising

In the "Perspicacity" segment, Steve Davis and David Olney take a nostalgic trip down memory lane, revisiting the infamous stable table—a once-popular product that was marketed heavily in the 1990s. Through the lens of a 1993 advertisement, they explore whether the stable table still holds any relevance in today's world or if it has become a relic of the past.

The stable table, with its plastic surface and beanbag-like cushion underneath, was marketed as a multipurpose household item. The ad touted it as everything from a breakfast table to a math table, emphasizing its non-slip surface. However, Steve humorously debunks the ad’s claims, pointing out that the so-called "non-slip" feature was anything but effective, as drinks would often end up spilling onto the user's lap.

David adds that while the stable table might have solved a particular need in the past, the product seems outdated by today's standards. He suggests that a modern equivalent would need to include features like a charging port, cup holder, and perhaps even an LED light to cater to contemporary needs such as using laptops or other devices. The discussion underscores how product relevance and advertising strategies need to evolve with the times.

As they reflect on the ad, both Steve and David agree that the commercial's lengthy list of features, presented as benefits, would likely fail to resonate with today's audience. In a world where concise, targeted messaging is crucial, the stable table's old-fashioned pitch seems out of place. The segment closes with a recognition that while the stable table may still serve a niche purpose, especially when someone is unwell, its heyday is clearly over. The larger lesson is how easily outdated marketing tactics and products can become irrelevant if they don’t adapt to changing consumer needs and preferences.

In this episode of Talking About Marketing, Steve Davis and David Olney explore the critical factors shaping small business success in today's challenging landscape.
They begin by discussing the importance of structured, meaningful conversations and how they can drive better customer engagement and business outcomes.
The episode then delves into the fundamentals of effective marketing, emphasising the need for precision in targeting your market and offering solutions that truly resonate.
A light-hearted critique of a poorly executed marketing email offers a stark reminder of the importance of genuine engagement.
Finally, the duo takes a nostalgic look at retro advertising, reflecting on how marketing tactics must evolve to stay relevant.
Get ready to take notes!
Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes
01:30 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal. Structured Conversations for Meaningful Engagement
In this episode's "Person" segment, Steve Davis and David Olney explore the significance of structured conversations in both personal and professional settings. Using a <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sKieIqZgL7M">conversation between Jerry Seinfeld and Bill Maher</a> as a springboard, they delve into why structured interactions can be more fulfilling and productive than aimless chatter, particularly in business contexts.
Steve shares a perspective he resonated with from Seinfeld: the idea that working together on something—whether it's an interview, a podcast, or a project—adds value to interactions that casual socialising may lack. This sentiment is echoed in Steve's own approach to podcasting and interviews, where he finds energy and learning in the semi-structured nature of these exchanges. He points out that people often behave differently in structured settings, listening more intently and engaging more deeply because there's a clear purpose to the conversation.
David expands on this by highlighting the comfort and safety that structure brings to conversations. He notes that having a framework not only helps participants understand the flow and expectations but also makes the dialogue more meaningful and less nerve-wracking. This is particularly relevant in a business setting, where customers may approach with disorganised thoughts, seeking clarity. A structured approach allows the service provider to guide the conversation effectively, helping the customer articulate their needs and ensuring the interaction is productive.
The takeaway from this discussion is the value of bringing some level of structure to conversations, especially in business. While casual, unstructured chats have their place, adding a purpose or framework to an interaction can enhance the quality of the dialogue, making it more engaging and beneficial for all parties involved. For business owners and leaders, being mindful of this can improve customer interactions and lead to more successful outcomes.
10:15 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today. The Power of Niche Marketing: Inch Wide, Mile Deep
In the "Principles" segment, Steve Davis and David Olney explore the key insights from <a href="https://amzn.to/4fKdrz7">Allan Dib’s book, Lean Marketing</a>, which has deeply resonated with them, particularly the idea of targeting a specific market niche. They discuss the first principle from the book—selecting your target market—and how honing in on a narrow, yet deep, audience can significantly enhance marketing effectiveness.
Steve and David introduce the concept of an “inch wide and a mile deep” target market, emphasizing that while it might seem limiting to focus on a small, specialized audience, this depth of understanding allows businesses to meet the precise needs of their customers, leading to greater success. They explain that by truly knowing a niche market, businesses can position themselves as the go-to solution for specific problems, which builds confidence and authority in that space.
The discussion then moves to the idea of marketing products as “vitamins” versus “painkillers.” Vitamins are nice-to-have, optional supplements, whereas painkillers address urgent, pressing needs that consumers are willing to pay for immediately. The key takeaway here is that businesses should strive to offer solutions that address their customers' most critical pain points, thus transforming their product or service into an essential need rather than a mere luxury.
Steve and David conclude by stressing the importance of specificity in marketing messages. They illustrate this with examples from their personal experiences, highlighting how targeted, specific messaging can be more compelling and drive immediate action. By understanding and addressing the specific pain points of a niche market, businesses can craft powerful, effective marketing strategies that resonate deeply with their audience.
23:00 Problems This segment answers questions we've received from clients or listeners. The Perils of Spammy Cold Calling: A Lesson in Genuine Engagement
In the "Problems" segment, Steve Davis and David Olney delve into the frustrations of outdated and ineffective marketing techniques, particularly spammy cold calling and mass emailing. Steve shares an egregious example of a cold email that he received, highlighting how such approaches can be not only ineffective but also damaging to a brand’s reputation.
The email in question exemplifies all that is wrong with brute-force interruption marketing. It starts with a negative tone, assumes the recipient is at fault for not responding, and even attempts to guilt-trip them into engaging. David criticizes the email's structure, noting that any potential value proposition is buried under layers of off-putting language and poor tactics. This type of communication, David argues, not only fails to engage the recipient but also tarnishes the sender's credibility.
Steve and David then take the discussion further by exploring how AI tools like ChatGPT can assess and even rewrite such emails. However, as they note, even AI's improvements often miss the mark, perpetuating the same fundamental flaws seen in traditional marketing tactics. The key takeaway from this segment is the importance of moving away from outdated, impersonal marketing approaches. Instead, businesses should focus on genuine, personalized engagement that respects the recipient's time and attention, ultimately building trust rather than eroding it.
29:00 Perspicacity This segment is designed to sharpen our thinking by reflecting on a case study from the past. The Outdated Appeal of the Stable Table: A Look at Retro Advertising
In the "Perspicacity" segment, Steve Davis and David Olney take a nostalgic trip down memory lane, revisiting the infamous stable table—a once-popular product that was marketed heavily in the 1990s. Through the lens of a 1993 advertisement, they explore whether the stable table still holds any relevance in today's world or if it has become a relic of the past.
The stable table, with its plastic surface and beanbag-like cushion underneath, was marketed as a multipurpose household item. The ad touted it as everything from a breakfast table to a math table, emphasizing its non-slip surface. However, Steve humorously debunks the ad’s claims, pointing out that the so-called "non-slip" feature was anything but effective, as drinks would often end up spilling onto the user's lap.
David adds that while the stable table might have solved a particular need in the past, the product seems outdated by today's standards. He suggests that a modern equivalent would need to include features like a charging port, cup holder, and perhaps even an LED light to cater to contemporary needs such as using laptops or other devices. The discussion underscores how product relevance and advertising strategies need to evolve with the times.
As they reflect on the ad, both Steve and David agree that the commercial's lengthy list of features, presented as benefits, would likely fail to resonate with today's audience. In a world where concise, targeted messaging is crucial, the stable table's old-fashioned pitch seems out of place. The segment closes with a recognition that while the stable table may still serve a niche purpose, especially when someone is unwell, its heyday is clearly over. The larger lesson is how easily outdated marketing tactics and products can become irrelevant if they don’t adapt to changing consumer needs and preferences.

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.

Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde
Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde
Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde
Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde

Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.

We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

The only thing worse than being talked about, is not being talked about...

Talking About Marketing

Talking About Marketing is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.

Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde
Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde
Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde
Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde

Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.

We welcome your comments and feedback via podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com

<a href="https://talkedaboutmarketing.com/podcast/">Talking About Marketing</a> is a podcast for you to help you thrive in your role as a business owner and/or leader. It's produced by the Talked About Marketing team of Steve Davis and David Olney, with editing by Tim Whiffen. Artwork by Casey Cumming.
Each marketing podcast episode tips its hat to Philip Kotler's famous "4 Ps of Marketing" (Product, Price, Place, Promotion), by honouring our own 4 Ps of Podcasting; Person, Principles, Problems, and Perspicacity.
<ol>
<li>Person. The aim of life is self-development. To realise one's nature perfectly-that is what each of us is here for. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Principles. You can never be overdressed or overeducated. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Problems. “I asked the question for the best reason possible, for the only reason, indeed, that excuses anyone for asking any question - simple curiosity. - Oscar Wilde</li>
<li>Perspicacity. The one duty we owe to history is to rewrite it. - Oscar Wilde</li>
</ol>
Apart from our love of words, we really love helping people, so we hope this podcast will become a trusted companion for you on your journey in business.
We welcome your comments and feedback via <a href="mailto:podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com">podcast@talkedaboutmarketing.com</a>

Discover how precise market targeting and impactful communication can transform your small business, alongside critiques of outdated marketing tactics and nostalgic ads.

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